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tv   Lectures in History Modern Richmond Virginia Politics  CSPAN  February 25, 2018 12:00pm-1:16pm EST

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its time. probably we would think they were very stuffy. he got along fine there. , -- he could >> thank you very much. [applause] >> douglas wilder was the first african-american elected as governor in u.s. history serving virginia from 1990 to 1994. next on lectures in history, mr. wilder is a guest speaker at a virginia commonwealth university class. he reflects on five decades of involvement in state and local
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politics, which also included terms as a state senator, lieutenant governor, and richmond mayor. >> let's see. all semester, we have been talking about richmond. the name of the class, uncovering richmond. we've been talking about the history and that geology -- in the geography. about theld you dramatic events that have happened in the past 300 years. we also said we would have guest speakers it would bring to class something we can't bring, their personal experiences. their personal experiences and richmond. i cannot imagine a better person to talk about his personal experiences in richmond, how it has changed, and what the future than ourd then our --
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former governor and our former mayor of richmond. [applause] before we bring up the former governor, i just what to say couple words. as we have talked about many times, you have a great resource here at the wilder school. as a graduate student here, i took advantage of the nature of this. we hope that you are getting some of that. we hope that you are getting out into the community and meeting and interviewing people and talking about the history. we know that is a really important thing. just a reminder that the wilder school that many of you are part of has a center for public
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policy that offers research and technical expertise to local governments and institutions. this semester, yet heard from the woman in charge of richmond's master plan about what we went to be when we turn 300 years old. you heard from the man who wrote the book on annexation in virginia. i watched her mouth dropped like my mouth dropped in shock about some of the things we have uncovered about what richmond is. today, we have our school's namesake here with us. he is an attorney, and it -- a distinguished professor, a bronze star veteran, and a driving force to establish a national slavery museum. douglas wilder has been a lifelong public servant with
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more than 40 years dedicated to improving the quality of life in the commonwealth of virginia . city. the mayor of our districts to be elected. he has been in the general assembly and state senate. he was a lieutenant governor. he was the first elected african-american to serve as governor in the united states. he is also a lifelong resident of our great city of richmond and knows more about our city and pretty much anybody you can talk to. as we continue this semester long journey of uncovering richmond, it is my pleasure to introduce governor douglas wilder. [applause] >> thank you very much.
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happy halloween. was going tory, i abide with the custom, and i'm going to take my mask off tonight while everybody else puts verizon -- puts theirs on. i would've liked to have listened to some of the speakers you had. john meza knows a great deal about our city. i think some of what i might say might be repetitious, that you will deal with it. -- but we will deal with it. i think it is important to start at the outset by recognizing that richmond is an independent
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city. virginia is the only state that has independent cities. you know what i mean by independent cities? it means no city is in a county. there are some of you who might live in chesterfield or hanover. when you travel, you don't tell them you live there. you tell them you live in richmond. the airlines have it all going to richmond. different. a little we had all the banks at one time. all of the banks. the branches were not established because the law would not established -- would not allow them to have branch banks. the bank of waverley. usually, the people who owned the banks were members of the general assembly.
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that was changed. --had chances to because we did not have the branch banks, u.s. airline said we would go to charlotte. charlotte was absolutely nothing as it remains to business. we lost out big-time in the city. 41 independent cities all butnited states, three of them are in virginia. the other three are baltimore, st. louis, and carson city nevada. anomaly because in that regard, they are all subject to legislative control.
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we are operating under the so-called dillon rule. you for that expression given before. justice ofthat chief the iowa supreme court during the 1860's. writeralso a prolific about local governments. when of the greatest authorities on municipal law. in order to get a real understanding of the city of richmond, one has to be made aware of the so-called legal constraints imposed by the adoption of the bill of rule -- by the dillon rule. dillonme people today, was a man who distrusted local governments and local officials. thosequoted as saying,
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best fitted by their intelligence, business experience, capacity, and moral character usually do not hold local offices. and that the conduct of the visible affairs was generally unwise and extravagant. these strong believes were adopted by the virginia supreme court before the turn of the 19th century. the dillon rule is still in effect in virginia. so what is the dillon rule? it is also known as the rule of statutory construction. interpret when there is a question of whether or not a local government has certain power. powerstrues the grant of to localities there are
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narrowly. therettom line is, where is a question about a local governments role or authority, the local government does not receive the benefit of the doubt. one must assume that the local government does not have the power in question. and legal language, the first part of the dillon rule lead -- read like this. local governments have only three types of power. one, those granted by express words in the charter. implied in or incident and the powers expressly granted. three, those essential to the delayed or declared objects and purposes to the corporation. not simply convenient, but indispensable. thesecond that i read is part that tightly limits the
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local governments powers because it suggests there is any reasonable doubt whether the power exists or not. that power has not been conferred. it is not a notion of power. either it is expressly given or you do not have it. but that homicide -- put that on the side. you have to take into consideration brown v. board of education. down,hat decision came people in virginia were quick to rule would have a substantial effect. i was decision came down, working in the chief medical examiner's office in the state of virginia. my undergraduate degree was chemistry. toxicology.g in
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the science of poisons. i also did all of the drunk driving test for the state of virginia. they only had one office at the time. that was in richmond. incidentally, the driving limit at that time was .15. you could really be drunk and drive. was interested in chemistry. i only went into chemistry i thought i should be a doctor. it was a me too counseling that ill fitted me because i did not love it. i could get by . i just come back from korea.
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i could not understand several things. how i was sent to defend koreans and died there if necessary for rides that i could not enjoy back on. it just did not make any sense. thingsere numbers of that were still rolling through my mind. i was still messed up. i took it out in different ways. when that decision came down, it's so affected me -- it so affected me, i had the chief medical examiner himself -- he was a doctor and a lawyer. , hemmediate supervisor received news of the decision as if it were freeing him. he said, did you read this
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decision this morning? i said, yeah. he said, would you think? i said it is great. he said it is hard to believe that white men finally decided they had been wrong. it is a heck of it admission. he said, what is that mean? -- what does that mean? i said, i will tell you the truth. in means that i am in the wrong field. i do not want to get a masters in chemistry. i do not have the smarts for it quite frankly or the patient's. i have to think this thing through. a set i want to go to law school
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-- i said i want to go to law school. i had to go outside of virginia. i went to howard law school. thisted to be a part of social engineering to change what was. i said, i cannot sit by and watch what is taking place too much longer. happened, the majority of school populations were in independent cities. that is why i referenced that dillon rule to begin with. the cities were authorized by .aw to annex the counties annex half wanted to of chesterfield county, they could have.
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all they had to do was have the approval of the court. the court had to approve the price of it. , to that decision came down make certain that the majority of people would be living in the -- it diluted the black vote. to city was growing in population numbers. what the city did it was it sought to annex. that part by willow lawn and beyond, the officials but a price on it -- put a price on it. city officials said it was too much. and solvelooked south portions of chesterfield county. they said we will take that part.
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duringat took place, that. of time, i was in the state senate -- during that period of time, i was in the state senate. since i am running for this 1969, since i am running for this position i better be a little careful in terms of what i wanted. if the annexation people are successful, i have to appeal to these photos -- these voters. if they are unsuccessful, they will say, you didn't want us to help that he didn't want to help us with the annexation. i didn't do anything. quite frankly, that was the
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majority of the african -- that was the attitude of the majority of the african-american leadership. i would go to court sometimes in the morning. i would run into the lawyer who was representing the people in chesterfield who were being annexed. -- he would ask me, are you going to try to fight this? toould give him enough satisfy him for the moment. he knew it was not me because i usually do not stay like that. in the process, he kept asking what was going on. finally, one of the people who had run for the office of the city council, he was a tenant's rights advocate. he lived in crating court.
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he decided to bring the action himself to stop it. lawyerassisted by a villabel. enough by supported those of us who felt it should've happened. -- the take place then elections were held up for some seven years. until the matter was resolved in court. when it finally got to court, the people -- by this time, i am elected to the state senate at large. that was the first time anyone had been elected at large to the state senate. -- elected allies to the state senate as a person of color. when that case finally was
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determined it was based on whether it could be settled. there were those who said we -- sixo it if you have 6 districts and three at large. nine and still does. said, wee those who should make certain it is a majority minority. it is minority population to be represented. there were those who said let's make it for -- four to four and one even. i was able to get the richmond crusade to vote a -- to voters. we were able to get that done.
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the other people were saying, why don't we do it with four to four and one even? i said no, i do not think that is going to work. get up with a five to four. that is the current circumstance today in terms of composition of the districts. place, ihen that took did rise to the region -- reason of why i think richmond had heard the moniker of the city with no left turns. street,e going up one you're going to have to go to or three blocks because -- before you can go where you want to go. planners do those things. they make those decisions.
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by the think they did it? -- why do you think they did it? where were the jobs in richmond? where was the business being generated? in richmond. if you are running the city like you always have and you do not live in the city, you want to be able to get in and out as quickly as possible. that is why you have what you have in terms of the street makeup in the city of richmond. the i-95 expressway to petersburg disrupted large portions of the african-american communities. the the pallet parkway -- poor white parkway.
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1980's, 295 was contemplated. i was at that time that chairman of the transportation committee in the state senate. as wellerything i could as the chairman to convince them -- do not take 295 and run it around the city because that is going to hurt the city. you want people to be able to come through your city. you don't go around san antonio. you go in san antonio. they call it the riverwalk. we have the oldest river in this country. one of the most historic. we still have yet developed to the extent of the people being able to enjoy it. stophat reason, i tried to
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the circumventing but was not able to do it.. i have described as is been -- once i finished my tenure as governor, i thought i was finished with politics forever. didn't want to -- i did want to be finished with it. i started seeing things take described --city i i called richmond the city of corruption and inefficiency. a cesspool of called -- a cesspool i called it. boy, did they come after me for saying it. they did. several council members had gone
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to jail. in 2003, i started a petition movement to have the mayor elected. not to be elected as a ceremonial role but to be the authoritarian leader of the city to be elected by the people at large, all of the people. , i knoween pointed out john meza spoke about it as well -- not a single political leader supported the movement. not one. the crusade for voters -- down. naacp, down.
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the elected leadership, down. nobody anywhere supported it. we asked the city council, would you at least put the measure on the ballot so that the people can decide whether they want it or not? would you allow the people to vote on it? they did not do that. i think tim kaine was the mayor of the city. said, tim can you work something out to at least put it on the ballot? he said, i can only get what your votes. i cannot get five votes majority to do it. with that, what we had to do was go out and get the people to sign the petition. the percentage of numbers of people to sign the petition, it can go on the ballot.
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we were able to get about 15,000 signatures to make sure it would go on the ballot. even though the entirety of the leadership was against it, when the people voted, 18% of the people said we want it changed. in 2003. if 80% of the people felt that way, with -- that's in a message to me. it said the leadership is totally out of touch with the people. doesn't have anything to do with me. it has to do with the message that was resonating. that the not believe leadership was doing the job for us. 80%.ried
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community business who was helping me with the petition, i said we are going to get somebody. they said when? i say, give me a couple weeks. one person i had in mind and not do it because of the residency requirement. you have to live for a year in the city. and other had just committed to something he could not get out of. i made my little report. they said, we are going to have to have somebody. you're going to have to do it. oraid no, give me a week two. i said, i'll do it for that amount of time. i almost got the same amount of votes that the petition passed by. it was close to 80%.
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anything?resolve anything -- a little. i committed to staying only one term. there are problems that still need to be addressed. one of those problems is that the mayor should have more involvement with education then just furnishing a budget for the schools. that is why i settled up on building 15 new schools. i have found a new way to do it without raising a dime of taxes. had he do that? -- how do you do that? if your business is coming into town, you want some relief. ok well you don't have to pay taxes for x number of years. you can get this coming to you. i could build 15 brand-new schools without a dime's worth
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of tax increase. the money was going to be rolling through. i had established with bank of america what we can't just an line credit. i had fixed it so our interest rates were so low because we were fiscally managed and were doing an excellent job. we had just-in-time financing. they said we could pit -- put $150 million up for it. whatever you need it, that is when the interest starts. i said to the schools, i want you to close to the schools that are not operating. that are vacant. they are still paying upkeep. we are still paying for the insurance and maintenance. haven't done the job.
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it is been unoccupied for school purposes for about 30 years. there are others around. the mayor in my judgment should be in a position to say, we are not just going to finish the money. the superintendent left here a year or so ago. every time he was opening his mouth, it was, we are broke. we need money. there wereind out $540,000 sitting around that no one even knew about. why? that is why i think it is so important for us to recognize the uncovering of richmond is one thing, it's in no -- but to
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know where we are is quite another. i think it is so important that we make certain that people are there. that people should be represented. there talking about removing of statues and monuments. my position on that, i have only spoken twice on it. i have said that i have always believed in constructing and building. i ordered to put arthur ashes statue. we had to fight some of the same people who did not want the petition. the same people.
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it was not a black and white issue. it was, we did not think of that. it went so far as some people ash tried to divide the family. i had my radio show conducted from that point. if you look at the statue, he is holding a tennis racket in one hand. he is holding books and the other -- in the other. he is telling the youngsters at the bottom that what you need is to understand learning. i want to tell a story about ash. the is a good friend and a good man. i remember when he was a father was park
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superintendent over at brookfield swimming. that is where he learned to play tennis. his racket was almost as tall as he was. go, go on so we could play. i used to joke with them. i said the way you came and represented us -- the fact that we would try to compete with you is one thing. and that process, -- in that had a speaking engagement. you come bydon't the mansion and we will have dinner? i said you let me know. he said i will. address what the check a few things.
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-- i just want to check a few things. said, what are the all right if i bring a couple of people? i said not at all. 13 people were with him. all relatives. young people. we came for dinner he said. said everything is fine. it took so little bit of time for them to get ready. i said it why don't you sit at the head of the table, and i will sit at this and. said, i wantt and you guys to pay attention here now. us,who is looking down at large washington on one side, and thomas jefferson on the other. need to know as to what is happened for us to be here today
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and to be in a position of recognizing we are virginians and richmond is. we are here -- richmond are's -- i was the first governor, i think the only governor to be elected from richmond. most of the others have come to election.fter the i was born in richmond. , the only street house my family ever had was there. my father had that house built by a friend of his who was a carpenter. his daughter was ethel furman bailey -- ethel bailey furman. the first african-american architect ever licensed in
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virginia. said tot there, i , i cannot tell you what it means to see this taking place. when he passed, his widow called me and said that arthur had always wanted to be buried with his mother in the cemetery here in richmond. i said i would love very much to have his body to light in state in statejuly --to at the mansion. he was the first person to lay in state at the mansion since jefferson davis. i will tell you these things not bragging but telling you them as to the history. nowquestion still comes up
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as to who runs the city. i would like that to be answered by the people so that the people know that is an extension of the people's choices. they are elected with accountability of removal and the replacement -- and replacement when needed and necessary. we were chatting briefly up here. i was telling him how pleased i am that this class is taking place because you are learning more about the city of richmond in many instances than the people who are charged with the responsibility of running it. i can say that unabashedly. i know where i speak. thank you. we will be taking some questions. [applause]
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>> i will start. what is with the independent city business? -- what is get everyone would be at rid of independent cities in virginia? why not? no,y answer today would be they are not going to get rid of it. the voting strength is in the counties and in the suburbs. where are the votes? in norfolk, richmond? no. the cities -- the counties that are adapted to be cities. virginia beach was not a city. suffolk was not a city.
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all these places have become cities. it is going to be hard time for you to be able to get the votes. the suburbs and the role areas -- politically, people sometimes in thek the strength rural areas as it relates to the suburbs. the suburbs of richmond for andance -- hanover chesterfield are strong. you have judgeships to be selected. i have a one word definition i used for politics. can anyone guess what that is? i said one word would define politics. money. give me something that is a
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proposition before any tribunal that does not involve money. youquite certain one of could tell you -- to tell me the magic answer. any think of something that does not involve money that the will are discussing politically? have thisg that we silent agreement. you are to be congratulated. every now and then someone thinks they have got it. they say, i have got it. abortion. are you crazy? the whole argument is about where is the money going to come from and how am i going to be able to -- if these people are so rich, they can travel to this place. oh, i got it. lgbt.
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again, you have to be crazy. you are talking about inheritance rights -- money. you need to know where the money is being spent on who it is being spent, who makes the decision for it to be spent, and where does it come from? most of what we have talked about here today relates to what, money. case, i would think it is going to be very difficult. >> i am curious what additional measures you would have liked to have enacted if that dillon rule had not prevented you from taking those sort of actions. >> you said, what additional -- youou said what measures
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would have taken had the dillon rule not restricted your powers. state? power or expressly putt is that you canter, meet with the superintendent of or meetols to determine with the city council to determine who the next superintendent of the school -- the mayor of the city of richmond has nothing to say about who the superintendent of the school is going to be. dozen that sort of raising thation as to -- does not sort of raising question as to why not? it is the dillon rule. should that be amended?
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yes. i thought the amendment -- another is that -- the veto right that the mayor should have relative to the actions of the city council. rule is notole -- all bad to the extent that it does not allow you to just run all over the world. i'm going to do this, i'm going to do that. for instance, that issue of the statues that have come up. how can you remove a statue that does not belong to you? where was the property located? was it city or state property? hereve a little statute not far from this place. with the artillery pieces.
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--t was given to the city that was given to vcu by the city of richmond. if it is anything to be done, the city has to approve of it. all of that is the dillon role -- rule. can have thewe best approaches for education -- the american can't come up with as many things as he can -- the mayor can come up with as many things as he has on his mind. another thing comes up. the election of school board members. legislation when i was younger that they could be elected. that was one of the other things i did. i did put an amendment that we
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were restricted by that dylan rule. should have elected officials on theirs will board unless the locality itself both for that. there has to be a referendum. did your feelings on the dillon rule change when you became mayor versus when you had served as governor? >> yes. your hands are tied. thing that you would want to know, why can't we do things together? moving pretty well as it relates to getting a better relationship with the local school system.
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i had even moved to a point one of my good friends who was at the school of education here. he was assisting me because he knew a lot of the people around the state. there was opposition from some of the vested groups because they felt that if richmond does this, it will spread to other places. governor, that was one way to look at the dillon rule. when i was mayor, there was another way. by and large, there has to be some understanding of annexation. it should not be as rigid as it relates to our cities. one of the finest speeches i heard barack obama make, i was mayor at the time. he said that unfortunately, our cities are looked upon as being
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roadblocks to economic development and the opportunities for enhancement. he said they are the real engines for that to take place. what we need to do is reinvest in our cities. he was saying what donald trump is staying -- is saying today. when he said it, the room erupted with applause in agreement. this was a room full of republicans, democrats, and independents. throughately, yet gone to package to get the moneys the people who opted to get the money back because of their recession. when he went for the second, he could not get it. unfortunately, people are looking at our cities and seeing this happened.
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decrying what the devil is going on in st. louis because i know that st. louis is a very prosperous city. distance.s a short only 20 or 30 miles away. st. louis is an independent city. they did not have anything to do with ferguson. how can i be critical of anything? i'm living in richmond and i'm watching eaters burger down -- petersburg go down. we have a responsibility to look to see what laws need changing and what best fits. your changing them demographically -- we are changing them demographically. our business is pretty much have left. a great effort is bringing them back. the last thing on the dillon locality can no
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raise any tax unless the general assembly says you can. that is what he gets to. -- that is what it its due. -- it gets to. all right. yes, ma'am. >> you mentioned economic development. how good individual neighborhoods economically advanced without introducing education? -- without introducing gentrification? >> there is nothing wrong with that in terms of gentrification. i do not look upon gentrification as being racially oriented. unfortunately, some people have. in terms of the redlining that took place years ago. lived on hawthorne avenue in
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richmond. a beautiful area. it still is. i have seen any number of people leaving from that area. their homes are so big. my home on hawthorne avenue had 15 rooms for five of us. that as a whole bunch of space. -- is a whole bunch of space. i see some people moving to 34th street near the cemetery. church hill has been gentrified. you look at the top of the hill. area, you canlton see developments. one of the things i would like to see more of in that area particularly is that -- is the citizens having a view of the
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river. i'm very glad to see some of the road improvements taking place. i come in from charles city quite often. i would like to see more people and more younger people. here is the problem again. education. people with children are not going to bring young kids to the city of richmond to go to the public schools unless there is improvement. they will live in the city but send them to the private schools. that is not good. again, gentrification, education, they'll run hand-in-hand -- they all run hand-in-hand. >> what is your favorite thing to get at eato squid.
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>> when they make it, gumbo. they make the finest in town. job with squid. it is very difficult to come by any bad meal there at all. when i eat it richmond, i go there -- when i eat at richmond, i go there. what is yours? >> i like the veal. >> you can handle it. i like it a lot. very good. >> as governor, would you able to implement rules to preserve predominately african-american neighborhoods? >> know -- no. it would never come up in that
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context. neighborhoods -- again, they are local decisions. they have to be made either the cities and the counties. one of the things i was very much interested in was making certain we had the schools in those districts. because if you do not have the schools, working efficiently, you not going to have any preservation. -- unfortunate thing is that i have spoken about this here with my colleagues -- very few people today are aware of the history of richmond. , i lived at 28 mp
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-- 28th and p. from fortries were street to 5th street -- 4th street to 5th street. north and south, it was from -- gray street in nine mile road. but he much there, that was the african-american community -- pretty much there, that was the african-american community. littleas very residential involvement. you would catch the streetcar and goat over the viaduct.
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underneath that, they had an elevator that you could take down on 17th street and go up to the streetcar. all of that is gone. there been some efforts. i-95 -- the one from petersburg -- going to petersburg. the neighborhood was right doubt -- was wiped out. there was nothing to preserve. >> in your time in office, did you have any experience with issues of pollution or environmental issues in respect
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to the james river? pretty talk a little bit about that experience -- could you talk a little bit about that experience? >> when i was first elected to -- senate, keith thorne things were so bad that they stopped any fishing. you cannot eat any fish that came out of the river. it depends on what part of the river. we ate our fish that came out of the river. it was so bad. that is in the richmond area. around ther places state that had businesses. -- the james
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starts near the roanoke area and goes through the chesapeake. we have so many environmental concerns. not only was the water back, -- bad, we were losing wildlife. i was fortunate to be able to institute a policy for re-nesting for the bald eagles. interior at of the who was verya lady much involved. the eagles were on the endangered species list. they had been taken off. largestne of the nesting areas of eagles in the country. i have a conflict of interest
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because in my backyard, they sit in the trees. it is a beautiful site to see. recurring thing. i think the environmentalists today have a much better reputation than at that time. determined toys be on the far left of a different variety. i think people now are beginning to see something has gone wrong here. water is so essential to our being. the absence of that -- we are not going to do well. i hope you are part of that effort to make certain that whatever was bad about the water in virginia or wherever, you do not stop the effort.
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to does not take long for things to go bad. my nephew was here yesterday visiting the retired federal judge in detroit. we were talking about flint and how bad things were there. said, he sends his regards to me. the poor lady came into office. the question becomes, what happened to the elected officials? could they have done something? why didn't they? flint is not just there, it is everywhere. all of our jobs are to demand what is right of government and to criticize what is wrong. and don't care who agrees with you. and you will see the result.
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-- there, i had no idea what they were talking about. session, andinto
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he said we just get together right after the session and i fine with me here particularly young people. i don't reference apple. i mean young people. demanding what is right and criticizing what is wrong. in your class, you are learning cool --ut this and many of them, as you agree, resent being told what they don't know. we need to insist you -- insist that the waters remain clean.
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we will when i was governor, i couldn't do until we cleaned up the waters. it.le than like have got to be 27 inches for you take them. now, they are back. a lot of things are back. people who never get mentioned and never get their names. that is why you demand what is right and criticize what is wrong. and i are quite as i'm a are many democrats that have varying views on the subject.
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>> i think it will come up later in the league at the symposium and we are going to have, talking about debates on olympic -- debates on debate. and what is to become of those. two things. i have takencivic position on whether i do or don't favor it. what are you looking for and what you expect to receive as a result of doing this? what is different about this than other things? then again, money.
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who gains? who loses? will i think it will require a bit more that has been put forth from the people of yes, it is good, or oppose it, because you can say this is ad. governor, i would have us actual evidence as i could should bee as speaking and i would let that information be fully known and aired on a continuous basis by saying this is what "the people" want and this is what others want. and when you do that, virginians are -people who are not wedded to the past.
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they'll change, but you have got to make the case. i don't know whether the case has been made strongly enough at this point. now, let me turn it around. what is your position on it? why? >> um, well, i guess -- mr. wilder: you know why, but you have never taken the time to explain it to yourself. i know. now, take the time. explain to yourself. andthen articulated to an extent that it makes sense. it's not knee-jerk. this until something else comes along. and i would think, if i were as you at that stage or in -- my position may very well bejust like yours. yes, sir.
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>> the nations opioid and overdose issues rising, how do you think richardmond can help his residents that suffer from that addiction? mr. wilder: th candidates for governor, are both saying that they have a plan for it. but that issue has so many interrelated issues involved with it, right? first of all, how can pharmaceuticals and drug companies be permitted to do this? next, how canphysicians be authorized to prescribe these things? and thirdly,more importantly, money. where is the money going to be
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comingfrom to offset the effects of drug addiction? period. ok, well, it is not as bad as heroin. does not taste as bad as heroin. but it's another issue as well. why can a drug that costs x amount ofdollars to make and manufacture and no r&d needed, no research involved, 500 or 600,000 times more than it actuallycost to make it. so, you're taking on the lobbyists. the money lobbyists, tht at is in their interests. i'm leaning towards being against those people who seek to benefit in measures to skies in them as being helpful for your health they are not. .
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and theyneed to be called just what they are.
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muck rakers who are involved in ripping the public off. at every opportunity they can and then disguise it as some way to help. you can't hide it. andit's, that's bad. let me hear from you. what you going to do about it? >> i personally think we should follow portugal's approach and make all drugs legal. externally controlled. i know there are a lot of different population and all that kind of stuff,demographics in other countries, but i think it would be an interesting theory to test. mr. wilder: to make heroin legal? >> controlled, not -- by the government and well thought out. mr. wilder: let me try some of those things in europe. portugal, the netherlands. i don't have a problem with some of that. let me tell you on one of those issues. see what happens. when i first got into the senate, i had no idea how little marijuana was necessary for you to -- if you possessed 35 grams of marijuana,it was presumed that you possessed it with the intent to distribute. that being said, if you were kicked up with 35 grams in you know how little that is, -2 or 3 roaches or maybe more.
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you all know what a roach is. the max, the sentence was 20 years in the penitentiary. none of which could be suspended. nor couldit be paroled. so you had to serve 2/3 of that time. you would'vehad to serve, if you were picked up. i didn't know it. and that lawawas changed without debate that i ever heard. it was changedwithout any great deal of ceremony. why? the wrong's person's son got picked up at a place not far from here. and the law was changed. a guy named roy schider used to come down to the, journalists would be advocating for legally serve -- for legalization of marijuana. everyone try to stay as far away from them as possible. yet made a lot of senseh as you
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look back on what he was sayinge. and america puts or people in jail that anyplace in the world. criminal acts is one thing,decriminalizing is another. we really, the opioid thing, to adegree, has helped many people recognize the seriousness ofdrug addiction in this country and the need to prescribe meaningful treatments for it. we have this coming up. all right. >> that is all we have time for today. mr. wilder: i've enjoyed you guys. good seeing you. [applause] [captionscopyright national cable satellite corp. 2018] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy.
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visit ncicap.org] >> the olympics, does that relate to what we are seeing today with the national a.m. -- national anthem and that the ballplayers? >> you could be featured during our next life program. join the conversation at facebook and on twitter. >> this weekend, we will visit the national archives and washington, d.c., too hard about popular book definitely cartoons. >> president roosevelt went down to settle a dispute and while there, she was on a hunting trip. the press covered in.
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he is not able to kill a bear. want to be having a successful hunting trip. one tracked down the old they are an incapacitated it. he said here, you can shoot his and the president said no, i will not. show how that there to they took the old bear, and he turned it into a cute and cuddly it, becamehe called a really popular one. also it became a recurring in the cartoon. >> watch the entire program on political cartoons sunday at 6:00 and 10:00 p.m. eastern.
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this is american history tv only on c-span3. announcer: next, historians john marszalek and craig symonds look at the military rivalry between civil war generals ulysses s. grant and robert e. lee, comparing their childhoods, experiences at west point, actions during the mexican-american war. the new york historical society hosted this hour-long discussion. >> we are thrilled to welcome back three frequent guests of the new york historical society tonight. john f. marszalek is the giles distinguished professor of history meritus at mississippi state university, the executive managing editor of the ulysses s. grant association, dr. marszalek has written or edited numerous acced

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