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tv   The Civil War Origins of Fourteenth Amendment  CSPAN  June 2, 2018 6:00pm-6:55pm EDT

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been johnny fielding. he said the helicopter will be here in minutes. >> watch the entire oral history on 10:00 eastern on sunday. american history tv, only on cspan3. the oneyear marks hundred 50th anniversary of the ratification of the 14th amendment to the u.s. constitution. next, clemson university history professor orville vernon burton talks about the origins of the 14th amendment and why it was the essential and necessary to ratify after the civil war and the abolition of slavery. this 45-minute talk was part of a daylong symposium hosted by the u.s. capitol historical society.
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>> now i have the pleasure of introducing orville vernon burton. vernon does it all. he is actually a one-man university at clemson university in south carolina. he is also the director of the .lemson cyber institute in addition to that, received the dean's' award in research from the college of architecture, art, and humanities. where is the chemistry and biology? least 25s written at books or edited them. he has published more than 200 scholarly articles. he is a distinguished scholar of lincoln among other things. vernon and i compete as to who can wear the best lincoln tie.
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i got mine at the u.s. capitol historical society. they have great lincoln ties. in any event, i give you vernon burton who will tell you about the importance of the 14th amendment. [applause] >> well, i appreciate you lowering expectations. it is always a hard act to follow paul. trying to get my timer on, and of course i can't. ok. taught the american south for 34 years at the university of illinois. and then i wrote a book, "the age of lincoln." and then, i moved home to south carolina where i had grown up. i had lived in illinois, the land of lincoln for those 34 years, and discovered people in south carolina and on longer cared for lincoln.
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and that even though i argued he was the greatest president of the 19th century and especially significant for me that he was a southerner. the cultural wars have wrecked historical memory, democracy, education, and our country with various corners in the prizefight of cultural combat, we need to recognize how general interpretation of his events might differ. said rewriting history is a good thing because we can make it better. [laughter] he recommended since an african american had been elected president in 2008, we can say that slavery never existed. theregh done in human, are indications that in white popular opinion as long as some justices on the supreme court, this is to some degree happening.
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history has relevance to the ongoing interpretation to the 14th amendment the left of the 14th amendment. this story occurred during reconstruction, a story i heard as a boy growing up in south carolina. the story goes a union company comprised of previously enslaved african americans was stationed in a small town after the war. each one marched into the town square and raised the american flag. directly across from the flagpole was the home of someone who had lost his sons in the war. the old man listened as the bugles blew, watched as the flag rose, and then yelled at the top of his lungs, "you damn yankees might have won the war, but the
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rebels beat the hell out of your chick among the -- chickamonga." they marched the old man off to jail. everything was fine until saturday night when the rebels started thinking about sunday morning and how the building when he could stand it no longer, he called and said the conditions of his release required taking an oath to the united states. eddy could no longer yell what he had. butler agreed. let outorning, butler with the yell. of "us" the definition
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and "them" changes the story. the story of the 14th amendment is seen differently by different groups. that is not mean all interpretations are equal. facts need to be real. alternative facts without evidence are not historical. in what historians now call postmodern history, we can all agree all interpretations are constructive but it really does matter what the narrative is constructed of. i am reminded of the story of the three little pigs that i read to my children and grandchildren. and it does make a definite difference if you are constructing your story out of bricks, strzok, or sticks. the 14th is arguably one of the most important amended to the constitution. it is my favorite one. when it was written and now, it has a great influence on the way american citizens live their lives and is cited more often in
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modern litigation than any other amendment. ofs is the sesquicentennial the 14th amendment and there's still a lot to say about it. in itsa wide range application and influence in the united states. i want to focus on when and why the 14th amendment was created. spoiler alert. it was to protect the rights of the newly freed enslaved people in the south and to provide them citizenship rights. congress created and the states ratified the 14th amendment during reconstruction to protect a group of people who were formerly enslaved. today, i want to investigate just the first part of the story. there is a lot more to it, but we don't have time. , the 14thcivil war amendment created possibility in the lives of former slaves and all citizens. the definition of african american citizenship was riding
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-- was set up by the supreme court in 1857. the court ruled african americans were not citizens and had no rights. dred scott v. sanford is the most reviled case in supreme court history and rightfully so. it is condemned for partisanship, inventing constitutional doctrine, and not constantly for hastening the civil war. above all, the case is forever infamous for the hateful words african americans had no right that the white man was bound to respect. if these words had been simply an historical observation, that would have been bad enough. but chief justice tony used them ofthe unprecedented deed fastening race discrimination into the constitution. the constitution of the founding father included clauses drawing a line between slaves and free people.
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joined byjustice tony a majority of the supreme court turned that line into a color line and declared the blessings of liberty promised by the constitution to all free people were somehow denied to all those of african descent even if free and born free of free parents pick what a heinous judicial crime. justice to chief fill 25 pages establishing dred scott was not a citizen? certainly not a question of whether scott had the privilege of bringing a suit in federal court. to lie in seems certain rights article four of the constitution gives to citizens of one state traveling to another state, specifically certain privileges and , words that carried over from article four and were included in the 14th amendment. he openly expressed his fear
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that if free blacks were citizens, their rights would include the following. these rights apply to every citizen? the ability to enter any state without passport, to go wherever they please at any hour of the day or night? for speech in public and private? to hold public meetings on political affairs? to keep and bear arms wherever they live? all these rights the slave states did not extend to african americans. the supreme court went with tawney. clearly if there were to be real freedom, that decision would have to be overturned. a new birth of freedom is what lincoln called for in his gettysburg address of 1863. i always like to see this -- show this. you can see the told the war 1865.n lincoln from 1860
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lincoln could see the american government might have to become a protector of liberty. in 1864, lincoln told a group in baltimore that the world has never had a good definition of the word liberty and the american people are much in want of one. he told a simple story. the shepherd drives the wolf from the sheep. the sheep thanks the shepherd ,hile the wolf denounces him especially if the sheep was a black one. clearly, the sheep and the wolf are not agreed on a definition of the word liberty. lincoln was grateful the wolf's dictionary had been repudiation. in reality, that repudiation is a never ending story still being told. the forefront -- the 14th amendment still at the forefront of that story. in march of 1865, lincoln alluded to citizenship issues in his second inaugural.
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lincoln helped design the set. wasnd him, the capitol dome finished because he ordered the work continued throughout the war. that spoke volumes about federal power. in the speech, instead of cliches about piety, lincoln wondered during the if god had sent the war for a punishment -- as a punishment for america's transgressions. it was one of the most profound speeches ever delivered by a president. lincoln sought to come to terms with the war. amputees visible all over washington. former slaves crowding the capital, many without homes were jobs. sharpshooters lining the roofs to protect the president. you're the end, lincoln urged americans to care for him who borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan.
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benefits for seek the widows of black soldiers, a courageous act because it recognized slave marriages as legal and implied african americans were entitled to full citizenship, a hope the 14th amendment was soon try to will with mixed. results lincoln knew that citizenship was necessary to protect freedom. he was killed for that idea. lincoln delivered a speech to the gathering crowd. he spoke about the need of citizenship for african americans who fought for the union. he announced he expected to let some african americans vote. booth read his darkest fears into lincoln's vision. that precipitated the final act. companion that is the last speech he will ever make, and it was.
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believed the emancipation proclamation was the central act of my administration and the great event of the 19th century. but i believe it was not the emancipation proclamation, but lincoln's belief in liberty. if you can take an ideal to apology and put complete freedom get an ideaou can of where the emancipation is in terms of democracy. legacy it is lincoln's that is in the constitution that is most important. lincoln voted for our country's mission statement. lincoln worked to include in the constitution which is our country's rulebook. he knew that the country needed more than a presidential proclamation of freedom. a constitutional amendment was necessary to ban slavery. in january of 1865 with the end of the war insight, congress
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introduced the 13th amendment. the 13th amendment was approved by the senate and sent to the house where republicans and democrats were split. democrats knew that slavery's day was done but thought emancipation should do no more than end vonage leaving african americans as second-class citizens in a white man's country. votes weredemocratic in steven shown "lincoln." film, the southern states only expected them that fully expected to rejoin the union as invited by johnson. democratresident, a who subscribed to the view that this was a white man's country,
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but virtually no conditions on their return to the union. pardoned thousands of confederates from the consequences of rebellion and returned them to the right to vote. he pushed to restore southern states swiftly to the union along southern government's free reign on race relations. he claimed to be protecting america from radical republicans, radical because they called for equality, and their african american allies. selected former confederate leaders to fill most of the seats they were regaining. when those men arrived in washington, republicans 39inated early nine -- districts. some call the 39 congress the unt congress because about 89 representatives were not allowed.
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congress had to expel the former confederate states and place them under a form of military occupation to get it ratified. freedom is a powerful energy. african americans began finding new freedom. getting married, searching for members of their families who had been sold. slavery's death did not automatically in for any right or liberty on african americans. it only liberated them from a master. whatever meaning the 13th amendment may have had in january of 1865, the white south's reaction to the end of slavery changed the dynamics. enactedhern states thinly disguised versions of slavery known as black codes. these systems gave white whip.ers the power to
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it became nearly impossible for african americans to rent land or seek legal redress against whites. blacks were not allowed to possess knives or firearms, purchase alcohol, or preach the without the approval of whites. in new orleans, the code declared free people of color ought to never insult or strike white people nor presume to think of themselves as equal to the white. the system would bind blacks to the land organized in perpetuity. the law took freedom from whites also. white people who might think differently were affected by the code that prevented them from
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interacting with any black people on terms of equality. it was the southern reaction against the former slaves the propelled the nation toward equality. northern republican outrage was typified by the chicago tribune. we tell the white men of mississippi that the men of the north will convert the state of mississippi into a frog on before they will allow any such on any land where the bones of our soldiers sleep and over which the flag of freedom waves. republicans in the midterm elections of 1866 made large gains. they passed the civil rights act of 1866 and began by declaring african americans citizens of the united states, reversing the ruling in the dred scott case. the 1866 act went on to ban andal discrimination
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generally guaranteeing to african america the full and equal benefit of all law and protection against unequal punishment, pain, and penalties. the new act raised questions. was it constitutional? this question, congress set to work on another constitutional amendment. the runt congress proposed the 14th amendment and sent it to the states for ratification. i wish we had time to discuss john bingham, the chief drafter of the amendment. he deserves to be better known to everyone, certainly historians. let's take a quick look at the 14th amendment. establishesntence birthright citizenship. it is about 100% of the formerly enslaved african americans that
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were born in the u.s. is americanit exceptionalism. the second sentence has been a major controversy ever since. it reads no state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of privilege it -- of citizens nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law, nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of laws. even today, people have differing views of what orunities and privileges are what do process and equal protection mean. the lack of clarity meant that the supreme court and our court system would be involved in determining their means. section two of the 14th amendment seems like it tries to guarantee the right to vote, but it does so indirectly, not by
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granting the right to vote as such, but by reducing estate's number ofa state's representatives if they abridge it remains unenforced today. the idea was to make up for the 3/5 clause. this was to give southern states . choice the 14th amendment dealt with the form of confederacy. section three would prevent those who engaged in rebellion against the united states to be members of congress unless congress approved them with a 2/3 vote. congress did soften the impact and allow all secessionists to 1876.ublic office in section four disallows payment
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of confederate debts. when the u.s. had its new constitution, the question of debt was a major issue between thomas jefferson and alexander hamilton. settled in theas room where it happened. it was a matter of honor. in the 1700s,l as the former confederacy was not allowed to pay its debts. section five is essential. it gave congress enforcement power using the language that is in the 13th amendment as well and stated congress shall have power to enforce by appropriate legislation the provisions of this article. the reconstruction amendments provided sovereign power to the federal government over the states and their subdivisions. fearedippi legislators the enforcement clause of the was dangerous.
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thelegislature -- legislature in both alabama and south carolina were alarmed that the 14th amendment gave congress the power to legislate on the political status of the friedman. they were correct that the amendments were a transformation on the need to limit power. protected theghts people from governmental powers. amendment one begins, congress shall make no law respecting. the first amendment creates an understanding that by non-action the government protects freedom. the other revolutionized freedom in the united states by assuring it was protected by law. each of the three reconstruction amendments, the 13th that outlawed slavery, the 14th that granted equal citizenship to
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people born in the united states, and the 15th which granted the right to vote to all male citizens, all specified that congress shall have power to enforce. with these amendments, the constitution was fundamentally on rights. the constitution now committed to power of the federal government to the eagle extension of these rights. congress sents the members to the states for ratification. many states refused to ratify. these states -- political change might have been delayed. james garfield of ohio, future president for a brief time in 1881 before being assassinated, declared military authority was needed to plant liberty on the
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ruins of slavery. congress felt bound to a higher purpose. as a result of southern states' refusal to ratify the 14th amendment, congress enacted the reconstruction act of putting the rebel states under federal military control. the reconstruction act authorized new state constitutions and united states military commanders took charge of registering all voters to elect delegates to state conventions. charles sumner, ardent supporter of black rights, believed the ballot ensured protection against white supremacy. he naively thought the rights of southerners once given can never be taken away. across the south, whites thought newly freed slaves would not bother voting. they were proved dramatically wrong.
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african americans responded overwhelmingly, offering -- often marching to the spot with a had been whipped or sold to cast their ballot. act providedction for universal male suffrage. constitutions were forward-looking providing polk schools for the first time among many other things. the new state legislatures ratified the 14th amendment. untilky did not ratify 1876. new jersey was true ratification in 1868 and ratified only in 2003. morgan also withdrew ratification and only ratified in 1973. ohio rescinded ratification in 1868 and only ratified in 1983.
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if the 14th amendment have been effective, there would be no need for the 15th amendment. that was not to be. compelling forces articulated the basic requirement of suffrage. frederick douglass declared the right to vote was the keystone of the arc of human liberty. it became clear to the majority the constitution should include a new amendment guaranteeing the right to vote, the 15th amendment. the constitution now to find the new birth of freedom. citizenship and the right to vote. the citizenship secured by 14th amendment and the right to vote secured with the 15th amendment, african americans can protect themselves from their former owners with the rule of law, by standing for political office, and could choose their own leaders with free debate and honest ballot. with citizenship and voting rights, black political participation mushroomed. voting was followed by office in states.
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mississippians and 14 others served in the house. they were almost entirely republican and joined by white allies in the republican party. i'm going to take a moment to talk about how important language is. southern whites who supported equal justice were labeled with the word scalawag. it is a horrible sounding word. language is important. carpetbaggers. there were some who were greedy and came to make a fortune and supposedly carried all of their belongings in cheap carpet bags. others thatere were were amazingly brave people. these teachers who came to start a school and teach former slaves
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in south carolina. their lives were rough. they dedicated their lives to this. lauren townee -- state her whole life working the word i hate the most is used for the overthrow of this interracial government, we use the word redemption. it really bothers me -- it is really a restoration. this was a terrorist overthrow, in fact, to pull back the incredible progress made by the 14th and 15th and 16th. language does matter. the overthrow of reconstruction was the work of unlawful whites because they cannot tolerate african-american office voting and progress the former slaves managed. extended no longer protected african-americans.
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many forms outlawed groups like the ku klux klan and the white nights. knights. the klan attacked the democratic institution, african-american and white allies created. gangs.ritinriding at klan struck african-american churches, smaller groups of citizens, but only groups they outnumbered. they avoided any class of federal troops. white southerners said they would take care of the problem, but supreme court justice samuel miller wrote in 1867, challenging that life. e. show me a single white man that has been punished in a state court. show me the first public address in which the massacres of new orleans and memphis have been condemned. the modern equivalent to this
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terrorism would be afghan, syria in the early 21st century but the killing in the south was entirely one-sided, white southerners of black victims. we would think of terrorism in the united states as 9/11, but it was at least until 1865. new federal laws adopted after the 14th and 15th amendment were enforcement and protection. it also contained a new innovation, a section aimed at private terrorism making it a federal crime to conspire or go in disguise for the purpose of interfering with any person's any right or of privilege granted by the constitution or laws of the united states. now, i was always told to say in conclusion to give the audience some hope. [laughter]
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me list the: let some few of the many supreme court cases that involve different interpretations tha challengest the 14th amendment to show you how it has changed over how it was originally constructed. in 1856, the 14th amendment ruled corporations were people . in 1954, the court used the 14th amendment in the brown v. ed in fergusono which used the 14th amendment. it was the basis of baker v. carr that legislated bodies must be one person, one vote. court held a discriminating against women violated the 14th amendment.
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case wasroe v. wade based on the 14 the minute. court0, the supreme decided the presidential election was basis of the equal protection clause in the 14th amendment. in 2014, due process clause and equal protection of the 14th amendment is a fundamental right to marriage. in 1978, there were a lot of other cases we could go into -- restricted affirmative action in college admission based on the 14th amendment. some justices declared it forbid affirmative-action. it was used to challenge the redistricting that increase the opportunity for minorities to elect candidates of choice. a group of people denied freedom for 240 years of slavery because of their race and denied
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opportunities for at least another 100 years and now used to prevent remedial help because it take account of race means the constitution is not colorblind. this maintains the status quo of white privilege. let's not forget revolutions do go backwards. this story of a successful implementation of the 14th amendment stands as a warning for today's voters and court interpretations. nevertheless, let us and on a positive note. the constitution of the united states with the 14th amendment's guiding privileges is still illegal foundation of a new birth of freedom. i want to paraphrase the last sentence from my book, "in the age of lincoln." if we can define the problem, then let us find a way to solve it. thank you. [applause]
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prof. burton: i hope we have time for questions. i would much rather engage. i don't like doing a paper like this. you can't hurt my feelings. if i did not offend someone, i failed. we have five girls that think their dad can walk on water until they are 12, and then daddy cannot swim. you cannot hurt my feelings. my daughters have me well-trained. yes? sorry, back here. think about why the states ratified the 14th amendment, that they realized it there other states besides illinois that eliminated their black codes? prof. burton: there are two
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things. i don't want to start on my hour lecture on this. of course,ex but -- without the forced ratification by the former confederate states, it probably would not have been. there were two things that came out of the civil war and we focus a lot on the hatred, and it was certainly there on both sides. you have a little bit from the northern side. we are going to make a mississippi. thecannot have war without other side and being able because of that. the other side came out as idealism and lincoln's spirit. again and again, people called on it. i think it was done because of the transients may have seen in the south and the violence.
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in each state, you almost have to look at individually. werenally, republicans very successful in the first part of reconstruction and elections and things. of course, that changes with different elections. in as president after johnson. he is a war hero, he is committed to black rights. he used what we called the kkk or enforcement clauses. he shut down the klan in south carolina in the 1870's. some $3 million had been invested in the south to observe elections. answer,not a very good but yes. there were debates, but i think the idealism that came out of the civil war and seeing what had happened from the reports in -- a huge number of
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people were killed. i'm not sure the number, but at least seven. south carolina state legislators were murdered. can you imagine -- these were all on one side -- what it meant to be a state legislator at that time as a republican in the south? that really angered people in the north to see this. it was not the same as the civil rights movement where they were actually -- you could see what was going on in terms of the violence. there were reports and things of like it. phrase had a fascinating about john bingham. a person i am not familiar with. can you make a reference to a good source of information about him? prof. burton: do you remember
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the name? it is not well-known. becausery important bu he made very clear what he thought the 14th amendment was about. >> there is actually a new biography. i think it is gerard maglione. we will get you references. prof. burton: thank you. >> nyu press. prof. burton: i have been advocating people to do a biography for a long time. it is clear what he meant for the 14th amendment to be. i was teasing about how it was interpreted later, but the enforcement clauses. he basically said in his testimony you should take the bill of rights and apply it to statesmanship as well. that you would have those rights as a state citizen. sorry.
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>> one of the most on a unacknowledged things without abraham lincoln, it was the union black-and-white. in terms of what happened with that, i think it was a very important component in relation to that. prof. burton: you are absolutely right. they used the martyred lincoln as a way to do it. on goody, lincoln friday was not unnoticed by everyone. religious -- a they pick that up for the 14th and 15th amendment. father abraham or this christlike figure has died for these rights. they actually got on the ground and makade that happened.
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>> new jersey rescinded the ratification of the 14th amendment. it is interesting when they klan headed second rise to power in the early 20th century both new jersey and oregon had significant rise of the power in relation to that. prof. burton: the klan is reignited by the movie "birth of a nation." but it is in some ways anti-immigration. i had to cut out the similarities. you want to be careful about making comparisons, but the uneasiness of the time of immigration and those sort of things, and the rise of these kinds of groups like the klan. thank you. will be a future symposia of u.s. capitol
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historical society. could you give a brief answer as to why support for vigorous enforcement of the 14th amendment was gone and vanished for almost 90 years? prof. burton: there is no brief answer, i can assure you that. [laughter] prof. burton: i can say that grant actually want to do but the election changes. one of the questions i always used to ask my students -- i don't think the first reconstruction was a failure at all. i thought it was an incredible success and that is why you have a terrorism overthrow it, because it was working, not because it was failing as we sort of picked up the pocketed version of the. i would ask to compare the first and second reconstruction. in the second reconstruction, people could see children be hosed.ter
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until then, they could not believe how horrible it was at the time. there are a lot of reasons. the republican party shifts from what was always the party of property, as well as law and railroads. as labor in the north begins to make demands, as labor in the north goes on strikes and things, that is equally it with african-americans were actually on strike for labor in terms of rural. those things sort of conflate. a lot of things going on, it is a complicated story. people say we are tired of this, we are tired of supporting what it would take to make the white south, and it is easy to walk away from the idealism that was there earlier. not a good answer, but. >> we are not tired of listening to vernon.
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unfortunately, we are out of time. we are supposed as are the next session two minutes ago, but we will start it in 25 minutes. we will take a little lunchtime away from anybody. grabbed it coffee, it now. [applause] >> you are watching american history tv, 48 hours of programming on american history every weekend on c-span3. follow us on twitter for information on our schedule and keep up with the latest history news. >> each week, american history tv brings you archival film that provides context for today's public affairs issues. americans, it was just yesterday that i returned
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from my historic moscow summit meeting with general secretary gorbachev. it so happens that later this month, i will be visiting canada for an economic summit with the leaders of the world's industrialized nations. i thought i would take a few moments to tell you about both. first, my meeting with general secretary gorbachev in moscow. the event that held perhaps the most immediate historic importance took place on wednesday. it was then that general secretary gorbachev and i exchanged the instruments of ratification, bringing to affect the imf treaty. the effect of this treaty will anvery simply to eliminate entire class of u.s. and soviet intermediate range nuclear missiles. treatynificance of the can hardly be overstated. for the first time ever, the levels of nuclear arms will actually be reduced rather than having caps placed on their growth. these missiles were not simply have been shuffled around on the
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map or placed in storage, they would have been destroyed. the exchange of these instruments and ratification alone would have made the moscow summit a success, but the general secretary and i made important progress in other areas as well. we moved ahead on negotiations that would lead to a dramatic reduction in both sides arsenals of strategic nuclear arms. i'm especially pleased by agreement to hold increased exchanges involving high school students. the number of students will first be in the hundreds but could grow into the thousands. imagine hundreds and then thousands of young people that first hand knowledge of each other's countries and who have made friends. turning to regional conflicts, mr. gorbachev and i discussed ways to reduce tensions in areas around the globe. southeast asia, africa, central
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america, the persian gulf, and the middle east. the withdrawal of soviet groups from afghanistan represents a historic step in itself, one that the general secretary and i agree could serve as a model for settling other regional conflicts. a key part of my agenda for this moscow summit, nas for my previous meetings with the general secretary, involves human rights. recently, the soviets have begun to show somewhat more respect for human rights. in the past year, for example, they have released some 300 political detainees from detention. it is my hope that what took place in my moscow visit will lead to still greater individual freedom for the peoples of the soviet union. you see, in addition to my meeting with mr. gorbachev, i held other meetings with monks at a monastery in moscow, with nearly 100 dissidents, men and
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women who have worked for years for the freedom to speak, to worship, to assemble and to travel. and, at moscow university with students. indeed, but the very students likely to become the soviet union's next generation of leaders. i was ablents, to save the people of the united states and elsewhere support you. to the students, i suggested there is another way to live and govern your country. a way of democracy and economic growth, a way in which creating human energy are released. if anybody had suggested as recently as 10 years ago that american president would one day be able to meet with soviet dissidents inside moscow itself or the able to speak to soviet students in their own university about human freedom, i think you would agree that a prediction like that would have been dismissed. but, this past week, it happened.
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seeds of freedom and greater trust were sown and i have to believe that in ways we may not be able to guess, those seeds will take root and grow. accompanying these new political freedoms are a series of economic reforms that may begin to inject elements of free enterprise into the soviet economy. in two weeks, i will be attending my final economic summit in toronto where the western countries will celebrate the success of free markets. it is my belief that liberty should be as important a concern in toronto as it was in moscow. liberty in the economic sphere means low taxes, paring away needless regulations and reducing counterproductive government planting and interference. and it means keeping down barriers to international trade here and around the world. until next week, thanks for listening and god bless you.
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>> sunday night, syndicated columnist jonah goldberg with his book, argues that tribalism, populism and nationalism are threatening american democracy. mr. goldberg is interviewed by the editor of commentary magazine. that your book, you posit western civilization as we understand it or contemporary american western democratic civilization is unnatural. what do you mean by that? >> if you took humans and cleared them of all of our civilizational education and put them in their natural environment, we would not be having conversations about books or doing podcasts. we would be teaming up into little bands and troops,
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defending ourselves against animals and other bands. that is exactly what our nature is. that is the point of lord of the flies. you have these kids who were the pinnacle of western civilization at the time. these kids from a british order school. almost instantly, the second you put them back in a natural environment, they start getting fears, attack each other. that is humanity. >> sunday night at 9 p.m. eastern on c-span2's book tv. >> monday night on the communicators, american cable association president and ceo matthew polka and senior vice president of corporate affairs andrew peterson talks about the issues facing rural and suburban broadband providers. customers do not have access to traditional cable
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providers. very rural. in many instances, pds is the only provider in those areas. we work very closely with the federal government, fcc, on programs that make partnership investments with private sector companies like tds through the federal universal service program to bring broadband to people who do not have it or adequate broadband. >> i do think it is very important that as the administration, the fcc, congress considers infrastructure by the proceedings and other concepts, that broadband is and has been determined to be a matter of important infrastructure to our country and to our national policy. that is a change because typically would think of infrastructure as roads, bridges, railways, etc., but they are all very important and need to be helped. but we cannot survive today as a business, individual, someone
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working from home in our economy without having a robust broadband experience. >> watch the communicators monday night2 at 8:00 eastern on c-span2. >> american history tv, u.s. naval academy history professor emeritus craig simons talked about his book, world war ii at sea. discusses thends strategies and battles that took place between 1939 and 1945 on all the world's oceans and seas. the national archive hosted this event. it is just over one hour. >> thank you and welcome to the archives. it is my honor today to be able to introduce dr. craig symonds, a person i have known since i came into the navy service in 1977.

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