tv U.S. Treasurer Jovita Carranza on Financial Literacy and Retirement CSPAN September 21, 2018 2:44pm-4:25pm EDT
>> senate judiciary committee chair chuck grassley has called a hearing for monday to give supreme court nominee brett kavanaugh along with professor christine blasey ford a chance to testify. professor ford accused the judge of sexually assaulting her into high school. while she has not agreed to testify on monday, her lawyer says she is willing to testify sometime next week under certain conditions. we plan live coverage of monday's session on c-span scheduled to begin at 10:00 a.m. eastern, also available at c-span.org and you can listen with the free cl span radio app. we'll also be live for any further meetings of the judiciary committee. >> next, a discussion before a senate health subcommittee on financial literacy and retirement savings. topics included efforts to increase retirement savings among workers.
>> good afternoon. and welcome to the subcommittee on primary health and retirement security. the hearing we're having today is financial literacy. the starting point for a secure retirement. and to begin with, i want to extend my gratitude to senator jones for agreeing to host this hearing with me. i appreciate the bipartisan way that this roundtable was organized. roundtables are a little different than hearings. they're a little more relaxed, and we have a series of things that we want to learn about that we hope you'll talk about, and we limit a little bit of the amount of opening statements but the card you have in front of you will stand on end. so anytime a question is asked and you want to excellent on it,
as well stand it on end and we'll recognize you also. and there isn't the normal set order of the questioning either because we jointly agreed on all the panel members and we jointly agreed on a number of questions. so -- we do have today before us an important issue that i've been engaged since i was the mayor of gil let. and that's financial literacy. i even have headed up the financial literacy caucus for a long time. and always asked the question what are we trying to do and how will we know if we got it done or to what extent we've gotten it done. as mayor of gillette, i remember seeing the power that individuals had over their finances when purchasing a home and the impact that that transaction could have on a family and the community when they got a home, they were a participant. up to that time, they were a worker. the reality is that in the time since i was mayor, people's
personal finances have only become more complicated. financial literacy just like standard literacy is fundamental to successfully navigating our world and yet we appear to be failing in our efforts to expand this knowledge. according to the most recent financial capability study, financial illiteracy is as high as 63% among adults. as if navigating the universe of savings options was not difficult enough, it seems that an a majority of adults lack an understanding of the core concepts that underlie money management six as basically budgeting and that eighth wonder of the world which is compounding interest and returns. the importance of teaching these lessons to children early is well understood. just over five years ago, i joined my friend former senator kay hagan in this room in a
hearing on just that topic. the conversation i'd like to have today however is about the efforts currently under way to promote financial literacy specifically as it relates to the retirement security because the title of our committee. among retirement security among working adults and how current resources are being deployed and how we can improve those efforts. to further underscore the can importance of this conversation, pricewaterhousecoopers an accounting firm published the results of an employee survey which found that nearly half of the baby boomers had $100,000 or less set aside for retirement, an amount that may be expected to yield about $48,000 in annual cash flow maybe. even more astounding when asked whether they were stressed about their finances only 21% of the boomers indicated that they were. individuals cannot be expected to make prudent decisions or correct an existing problem if they're unaware that the problem exists at all.
luckily, if there are any benefit of the twast financial crisis it bed as awakening for many including employers. since the crisis employers have recognized that not unlike physical and mental health, employee financial health can have significant impacts on the productivity. a person cannot be expected to give 100% whether he they're trying to resolve their own financial crisis particularly when they don't have the tools to do so. of course, developing financial literacy resources or a full financial wellness program takes significant expertise. luckily, benefits providers to have recognize the necessity of promoting financial late racy and have begun to innovate rate new solutions for plan sponsors and participants. third pares innovating in this area, as well. i've long been a fan of the financial discipline advocated by dave ramsey and in addition to providing advice through his
writings and radio show, he's developed an employer-based financial late racy program called smart dollar that's been adopted by over 2,000 companies ranging from small businesses to he makes the case to provide for no debt and i've seen that work with a number of couples. finally, non-profit organizations of all sizes and missions are active in promoting financial literacy as studied by the consumer protection bureau estimated that in 2012 alone non-profits spent more than 472 million in direct financial literacy services, but one of the federal role is something that i've been interested in for quite some time. in fact in 2003, i co-sponsored legislation that was largely adopted in the fair and accurate credit transactions act creating
the financial literacy and education commission or flec which i'll talk about more later. flec was developed to develop a strategy on financial literacy, forts. unfortunately, despite some significant progress in coordination and building of partnership significant overlap and ineffective resource allocation persist, the fact that has not gone unnoticed by the current administration. . that's why i'm looking forward to introducing the current u.s. treasury that's been tasked with leading the effort to streamline the government in its financial literacy programs to ensure that we are not only promoting the skills as effectively as possible, but also better able to measure their effectiveness. i'd like now to invite senator joan staff for his opening remarks and then a brief introduction of the witnesses. >> thank you, mr. chairman, and i very much appreciate you and your staff for bringing this roundtable together today to
focus on this -- what i think is a vitally important issue. also i want to thank the witnesses and each of this come from the issue and problem from different perspectives and that is also very important that we hear. i truly believe that there is no single, silver bullet to solving the retirement crisis we face in our country. it has to be all hands on deck. we're going to need private sector government, non-profits and advocacy organizations to all be a part of this solution, and i want to emphasize, i do believe that we are facing a retirement crisis. i don't say that just to be an alarmist, but i do believe it is important to place the proper emphasis on the challenges that we're facing. for the generation nearing retirement which until december of this past year where i included myself they see the change considerably since folks like my parents retired and less pensions, less defined benefit plans and less opportunities for
wealth accumulation, health care costs have risen dramatically and there was a financial crisis a few years ago to boot. for the generation now in their early career, i fear that student loans are taking the place of critical years of retirement savings. while we face challenges, there are also incredible opportunities and the more options available for savers, k congress are working to provide more access to savings prlans ad with more in the marketplace, i believe it's absolutely critical more now than ever that we make choices to keep people informed. i believe this starts early and i'm working on legislation to help enable more young people to receive personal financial education. we know that retirement planning is about continued education, when to save, how to save, what to invest in. it's a life-long learning in
this arena is key, and i hope we hear more from you today about all of those issueses and again, mr. chairman, thank you for this roundtable and also for your continued work and interest in this very, very important area. thank you. >> thank you, senator jones. i'd like to now briefly introduce our witnesses and ask them to give an opening statement on the topic and then we'll begin the discussion. before i introduce the panel i would remind members of the committee and our panel that our focus today is retirement security. financial literacy is a broad topic that affects all parts of people's lives. however, for the sake of this conversation, i hope we can concentrate mostly on retirement. also, we're important to have the representative of the administration here and i would ask my friend again to keep their questions to the topic at
hand with that said i would introduce treasurer car ransa, having served as deputy administrator of the small business administration under president bush. as i mentioned earlier, her office has been tasked with leading the reform of federal financial literacy program, and i look forward to discussing her findings so far. i would also like to congratulate treasurer carranza to be a member of the women's suffrage centennial. marissa swain, the first woman to cast a general election ballot did so in laramie, wyoming, and gave women the right to hold office. >> unfortunately, not, but she was actually from maryland.
[ laughter ] 1 but she was in wyoming and registered to vote, so also mention if you get a new dollar bill or any bill of about denomination you would probably find her signature on the bottom left-hand side and you might also be able to get her to sign a dollar for you. next, i want to have the prudential solutions group as both an employer and the financial services firm, prudential has been a leader in providing innovative, financial wellness resources to its employees and customers. >> next is lynn dudley, senior vice president with the american council and lynn is one of the foremost experts in retirement and compensation policy and i appreciate the council again,
lending its expertise through her through one of the roundtables. finally, mr. scott estrada here for the center from responsible lending where he serves as the federal advocacy director. i'm looking forward to his testimony. thank you all again for joining us in this decision after our witnesses give a brief opening statement, members will be able to pose questions to them. we want this roundtable to be discussion focused. so if anybody has a comment on what somebody said, that's why we did a roundtable and at the conclusion, those that aren't here as well as those that aren't here will be able to pose additional questions which i'm hoping you'll be willing to respond to. so with that we'll begin with treasurer carranza. >> senator jones and members of
the subcommittee ask thank you for the opportunity to testify on improving the financial lit rassy and education programs. one of the highest priorities in this administration and the department of the treasury is to promote economic growth in america. our economic success is predicated on the financial well-being of individual consumers and households. >> as we enhance economic opportunities across our nation, we must also improve and expand access to quality financial literacy tools to manage economic prosperity. the financial literacy and education commission, the flec was created by statute in 2003 and comprises 23 federal entities with the unifying purpose of developing a national strategy for improving financial literacy in the united states. the office of consumer policy which administers the reports directly to the office of the united states treasury. although the flec was established to centralize and
coordinate federal financial literacy efforts, many agencies continue to administer their own stand-alone programs and educational tools. in 20 sfaent flec agencies collectively spent an estimated $200 million on financial literacy and education activities. some of these efforts lacked clear measures of effectiveness. >> since assuming leadership of financial literacy in order to better meet the needs of our communities. flec reform is focused on merging programs and initiatives implementing best in-class financial education tools, setting assessment standards for financial literacy and developing a new governing structure that would facilitate the flec central role in coordinating resources in financial literacy efforts. while consolidation and
allocation of resources are key themes of the proposed flec reform, there are a number of cases where consolidation may not be the best solution. the flec reform is assessing existing programs to make strategic decisions about when consolidation is most beneficial, coordination among agencies is the best path to promote and create effective literacy efforts. >> in the coming months, treasury would make recommendations on omb for improving federal financial education and we hope to work closely with members of the committee to better prepare communities through effective financial literacy and education tools. thank you, members of the subcommittee for the opportunity to participate in today's roundtable discussion. >> i want you to know the buzzer was not for you. >> i was trying to rush through it it. i didn't know if it was my timer or what. >> there is a quorum call on the floor which is where we need to
formally give ourselves permission not to talk. >> thank you. >> mr. shane? >> on behalf of prudential, i want to thank you, chairman and senator jones and the members of the subcommittee for your commitment to improving the financial security if working americans and for the opportunity to participate in this roundtable discussion. the evolution of retirement and health care benefit offerings today have left to today's workers bearing more responsibility for their financial security. when coupled with other pressing financial obligations such as mortgages and student loan debt, it is easy to understand why employees may be experiencing higher levels of stret stress about their financial situation. employees' financial stress, through higher health care costs and lower productivity and employee morale. they can play a significant role in helping individuals improve their financial security for two key reasons. first, many individuals' financial lives are centered in
the workplace through the retirement and healthcare and protection benefits offered by employers. second, the workplace provides a valuable opportunity to engage employees through a wide range of channels and around milestones such as marriage, starting a new job or the birth of a child. we define financial wellness such as helping individuals to manage their day to day finances and achief long-term financial goals and protect themselves from financial risk and this reflects the importance of the right behaviors in optimizing the individuals' financial situation, as well as how it is in a wide range of issues from budgeting to investing for the long term. workplace financial wellness programs aim to improve each employees' financial wellness through diagnostics and engagement services and careful benefits plan design and new solutions to assist in budgeting and managing debt. they're critical to driving robust behavior change and
action of the individual level. as an employer, as well as a financial services provider prudential has introduced com p comprehensive financial benefit, introducing retirement plan changes such as an automatic company match, and budgeting coaching and implementing a comprehensive, on-site, free financial education program. prudential's program has reduced the reported levels of financial stress across its employees by almost 50% which almost positively impacts health care costs and disability costs and productivity based on the historical correlations that we have measured between financial stress and these factors. beyond prudential, close to 400 organizations have adopted on-site financial education programs and nearly 200 organizations are using the wellness platform and evidence of employer's financial
programs. although we're in the early stages of the programs, initial results are encouraging. >> internal prudential data suggests that 30% of individuals who have tools during benefits enrollment kick action to close the gaps in their coverage and more than 90% of individuals who have engaged in on-site financial education programs say they plan to take at least one concrete step to improve financial wellness. while we recognize the successes of today's workplace financial wellness programs and benefit programs we also applaud and support legislative efforts to further improve financial security for today's working americans. legislation that further encourages and facilitates the use of auto enrollment and auto escalation provisions and enhance plan participation and savings rates and provisions that remove impediments to the inclusion of guaranteed lifetime as part of the retirement plan can better ensure that employees
have access to the products that they need to effectively manage investments and longevity risk during the retirement years which may last from a few years to a few decades. we also support legislation that would support the offering of emergency opportunities similar to a plan, through short-term savings introduced by senators young, hydecamp and booker. in closing, i want to thank the chairman and members of the subcommittee for this opportunity to participate in this roundtable and i look forward to our discussion. >> thank you. miss dudley. >> is your microphone on? >> can you hear me? >> thank you. >> okay. i'm lynn dudley with the american benefits council and for those that are not familiar with our organization is a public policy organization. our members are fortune 500
planned sponsors and providers that service plans of all sizes. so we really run the gamut in terms of size of employer. our members tend to be best of class, and the leaders in innovation in a recent survey of our planned sponsors. we learned that more than 95% of them offer financial education and tools that are directed at accumulating retirement savings. over 73% of them responded that they also provide financial tools and education around retirement income in managing money in retirement. a significant and growing number of them have expanded their financial education program to include basic financial education and budgeting which we found was lacking amongst many
of our workers today and helping them to address barriers to savings. our employers feel so strongly about this issue and have stories to share that i've included the stories in my written testimony, but we have also initiated something called the idea institute. it's housed on our website. we hold forums and panels for our members to exchange information, learn from each other, but by sharing their stories and our being able to post them on our website, our members are able to learn from each other and expand their programs and learn what works and when they can try next. some of the things that they are doing with respect to barriers relate to concerns about student loans and other barriers, but helping employees go about
paying student loans and helping them deal with the large amount of debt that they have with respect to student loans, helping them utilize educational programs for their children such as 529 plans and other tuition assistance programs that the company offers also. it's something we find helpful and we are spending people develop emergency savings funds and helping them have a pocket of money to deal with problems as they come up and to address leakage. we oftentimes find that some of the same people have leakage more, you know, over again through loans and distribution because they don't have an emergency savings fund. we also are helping our employees understand the interrelationship between health and financial security. many of our health and
well-being programs or wellness programs now include a financial stress test to help people recognize that your financial health is part of your overall well-being and it's important to address that and we have financial stress tests as part of our health assessment and likewise the health care costs are an important thing to prepare for in retirement. we try to use diagnostics. you will see in some of our stores where companies have used diagnostics to zero in ask target on the problem areas. we typically test our programs and then refine them further we often times try to monitor what we're doing to see if behavior changes and who it changes and what kind of changes they have, and then we refine the program further. we really want to always ask
ourselves how can we do better and we strongly believe in a public/private partnership with respect to financial literacy and retirement planning and we want to be careful of our fiduciary duties, but we also want to be able to offer programs across the country, and across state lines. >> thank you. mr. estrada. >> thank you, chairman, ranking member jones and members of the subcommittee for inviting me to today's roundtable. i would like to open with a statistic that shows just what we're up against when it comes to closing its wealth gap and its impact retirement security. >> if current trends continue it will take 328 years to reach the level of wealth that families own today. for the families it will take 84. this important hearing provides a timely discussion on the challenges facing americans as
they plan for retirement and the role financial literacy has in that preparation. in my written remarks i discuss in details the barriers faced by millions of americans that rely in an uncertain and precarious retirement future. the conclusion of that analysis is it has a tool to drive equity and financial capability is unequivocally limited as the primary solution for the primary needs, both as a consumer tool as they struggle against historic inequity. to be more specific, the complex interconnectedness of race, discrimination and equity require a fundamental reassessment of the underlying narrative of personal responsibility, opportunity and financial literacy in the roles in retirement planning. the inequities that plague the financial market and threaten the security, have the conclusion that it is not a substitute for abuse of lending
practices many of which target individuals and push them into products who have deception and misinformation. it is my hope on how to rethink financial literacy and consumer savings in the role of not complimenting for equity and inclusion. this discussion is complicated because unfortunately when it comes to financial literacy, the first step is riddled with paradoxes. those that need the buffer the most are those that cannot afford it. the level playing field by definition excludes the realities of systemic and historic disenfranchisement. in the age of big data, economic series that do not reflect involving economic research still dominate the policy narrative of many proposal. what i hope to accomplish in my written testimony and discuss here today to outline the challenges faced by americans every day as they face hard decisions about their finances and oftentimes no matter what they do they fall further
behind. ultimately the limits of financial literacy and the context of this discussion bring us into direct view of the biggest threats to retirement security. burdensome student loan debt, predatory lending and home ownership disparities. these threats to retirement security underscore the fact that strong regulators and sound consumer protection policy must remain at the heart of retirement readiness. while these threats can be quite overwhelming for policymaker, advocates and employers they form discreet collaborative approximately see sduolution, i sure it fails to the fear as they look toward financial future plagued with loss. i'm committed to working with this committee and the other participants here today to build a pathway to a secure and dignified retirement. thank you. >> thank you. thank all of you for your brief
presentation and testimony and i appreciate even more the extensive testimony that you provided which will all be part of the record, as well. to kind of kick off the first question i'll start and in reforming the financial literacy programs, treasury carranza and the administration are increasing program effectiveness and something that i've been asking questions about since i first got here, unfortunately, measuring effectiveness can be difficult and selecting metrics and collecting reliable data. as each of you or any of you can describe the program and how these metrics are evaluated? jane, you mentioned them. we'll start with jane. >> thank you.
>> thank you. overall, we believe we are in the early innings of the work site financial wellness trend and the majority of these programs, and as a result, they're in the early stages of defining the metrics that need to be used, but in our view, we view the metrics and it should be 3a and one is first measuring engagement. so how engaged are employees with the financial wellness services being offered to them and whether that be educational services, coaching or digital capabilities and are they engaging with them and are they using the capabilities and that is a first threshold that needs to be evaluated. the second layer we think is to look at what actions do they motivate? do they stay more for retirement and do they create a budget and do they stick to a budget because that's a measure of ultimately what impact are we
having on the individual and the last of the metrics that we think will be very important to the employers that are sponsoring these programs is how does financial wellness and improved financial wellness lead to better outcomes for the employer in terms of improved productivity and lower absenteeism and lower health care costs and there are employers that are connecting the dots across all of the levering, and it does require a fair amount of data, and data work to do that and they have the programs and capability and that it will be easier to connect the dots across these various types of metrics. >> thank you. >> miss dudley? >> there we go. i actually agree with everything mr. jane said and it's engagement and their behavior
issing and they went in and looked at how many people were not on track and they -- and they thought it was the right amount that they should be saving in order to reach retirement goals if they were to retire from the company and they found only 17% were meeting that goal and the first thing they did was try to engage those people and then they -- when they looked and they look at how many more people are participating and then they refined it and added a customized tool where people could have one-on-one attention and then that lifted it further, and they added a retirement tool and it was a little bit -- they're not definite metrics and there's nothing out there that it is this is the way you do it, and a little bit of it is trial and error, but they refine,
refine, refine. and it's not unusual to look at a five-year period, and look at how behavior is changing and not instantaneous. >> you mentioned the financial stress test and can you tell us more about that? >> sure. i would be glad to. >> a financial stress test and it would evaluate how much debt you have and that's first and foremost. it would ask you questions like do you own your own home and what's your mortgage, what's your income and look at your -- how much debt you have relative to your income and it would look at your savings rate and perhaps -- it would look at even your monthly payment on your student loans and what we have found quite often is that people shift their money to pay off
their student loan and then don't map out what they can put into their retirement plan and then they miss out on their matching contribution so then right then they know they need to talk to this person so they're paying the right amount down on the student loan at the right pace so that they're not losing out on the accumulative savings for retirement and how much pressure you feel and questions about productivity, whether you have taken days off to deal with financial issues and things like that, to get a sense of whether it's affecting you from a health standpoint. >> is that kind of what you're referring to with diagnostics. >> and evaluating, and who in your employee base needs help. >> you do have to go in and look and maybe it's the same group --
and that's 2,000 employees and 10,000 employees and 20% of them are the ones that seem to be taking a loan all the time. and they've taken repeated loans and the financial assessment stress test will ask you how many loans have you taken and have you experienced a natural disaster and those kinds of things so that they know if multiple things are happening to you, then they can target the help directly to those problems. >> it's the leakage that you mentioned. >> right. >> anyone else want to comment on that before i -- do you have the question? we talked about the student debt and they think that this is a problem and it is for younger
folks who are shifting to try to pay and not starting early enough. the statistics show that there are a lot of people over age 60 that are still paying on student debt and it's billions and billions of dollars. >> right. >> what -- what can we do to focus to try to help? because that's a shorter term problem for people of my generation and completely dint in the stress test for a younger person and give them a new basic, and please chime in on that. >> thank you for that question. that is a growing issue that we've seep and a lot of it is related to the plus loans and co-signers and the borrowers or the parents who take out loans in their own name to provide due
ig tuition assistance and i want to keep it focused and i want to realize where the wealth gap plays into it, the white family with medium wealth versus under 20 for minority communities. so that won't even cover one year at most public universities including tuition and books. so it drives the need to take on debt, and you know, the interest rates on the government loans not only cuts into the expense of overall discretionary income for the home, but again, it's that kind of anchor on the balance sheet that will carry generations, we can see in this instance and that also, for those families that might have that extra discretionary wealth will cut the ability for other support systems for other children in college. so i think to come back with the direct answer is that it's really a systemic issue in terms
of the wealth to drive the need to take on loans and it's an issue that threatens retirement security because many times as you get closer to the age when you're considering retirement, when you have student loan debt for your children that provides a huge anchor off any type of growth that might threaten current assets in terms of housing if that goes into default and then there's a whole other slew of data about who is defaulting and why. i won't go off into a tangent on that, and there are questions of equity that have to be asked in that context as well. >> anybody else want to add to that? >> i see everybody -- that must have touched a nerve. >> the one thing that i would add, sir, is that one of the things that we're seeing more of in our financial education programs is helping parents plan for college a little bit more and to know what their options
are and to utilize some of the resources and some companies have even expanded their tuition assistance to accommodate family members and things like that. so there are -- it's a big problem even for the older significant problem for older workers, as well, but they are trying to help address that problem a little bit through and trying to help people know what the options are. >> mr. jane? >> i would echo miss dudley. there is an opportunity, and we will take on the debt and evaluate for themselves and for children and which colleges to choose and how to navigate the financial aid process which can certainly help older workers in the workforce today which can help those going to college. i would agree that the outstanding student loan debt issue applies across all jen
raisings and obviously it's most acute for workers 20, 30 years into their career and i think there is a positive trend that more and more employers are seeking to help their employees with this. the solutions, i think, can range from everything from just basic guidance to helping employees potentially explore refinancing options that may provide more attractive terms and ultimately also helping particularly older workers navigating a range of financial issues really think through what is the right way to pay down the outstanding debt they have and how do they sort of manage paying down debt versus saving for retirement and making those tradeoffs which often the right decision will vary from individual to individual bizzed on the circumstances and that's where we can have health and guidance to navigate their
decisions based on their needs. >> thank you. >> part of the reform that we should recognize is the particular issue and we're developing strategies for the senior protection and security of their savings and retirement savings and that's going to be an area of focus, as well, but we can also work with and partner with the private sector who are ahead with some of the solutions. >> great. thank you. >> and not to delay this topic or extend it even more, but it's such an important issue and more and more companies as mr. jane said, and we're trying to help their employees with student debt and one of the ways that they're doing that is really
seeing how they can provide matching contributions when the student loan is being paid, and just recently the irs issued a private letter ruling giving guidance on how to go about doing that and we'll probably see more uptake on that. >> thank you. >> go ahead. >> did you have a question you wanted to ask? >> i do, chairman, and thank you to you and the ranking member and it's a very important issue. my staff brought to my a tepgdz just some weeks ago, a statistic, and the employee research institute predicts that over 40% of gen xors will run short of money in retirement and just under half of all private sector workers who are not participating in a retirement savings plan through their employer and that actually came from bls data.
so i think it's really important that we continue to elicit more ideas from experts like yourself on this and i've offered to create a commission that would depply study the issue and assess the system and make recommendations to congress and i'll ask each of you. >> is this something worth exploring? we set up a lot of commissions around here, but this one strikes me as fertile for our exploration as members of congress. miss carranza, do you support this? [ inaudible ] we have eight work groups and one of them is dedicated for the retirement and we have a savings protection and focus the senior citizens with waip who has highlighted that particular staff and that is to say seniors
are committed to financing their family's college and so now less of them would be able to address what they call the outliving the retirement funds, and this is an area of concern that they will be focused on. >> so would you recommend that we focus on those, and i'll refer to those eight different working groups and what they're focused on is what key issues the commission should focus on. >> i would like to address that by indicating that we met with 60 different entities throughout the united states ask tnd the private sector academics and they've assisted to problematic areas and barriers to success on savings and improving credit scores and saving long-term for retirement and i believe that there's going to be ample opportunity to address those particular areas of concern and
from k to 12 to home ownership to entrepreneurs to retirement and they were covering the entire gamut. >> fantastic, thank you. >> do you have anything to add, and i think you nodded in the affirmative that you support the notion to provide recommendations to congress, and what key issues should such a commission focus on? >> sure. i think you touched on a lot of the key issues in addition to the fact that many individuals are not saving enough for retirement and many individuals don't have the vehicles to save for retirement and we believe that's an area where legislation can significantly help and we believe the resale legislation by providing more flexibility to creating multiple employer retirement plans would allow more individuals and particularly those working for smaller businesses that typically don't start a retirement plan due to cost or operations to more easily offer those plans and expand retirement access.
>> miss dudley, something to add? >> i completely agree with that and i would add looking at automation and to the extent that automatic enrollment and automatic escalation doesn't fit and resale also includes in that area, as well, but if it doesn't fit in a particular employer looking at what we call easy enrollment, click, click enrollment so people can enroll by clicking on icons. >> since this is a roundtable, i want to jump in here and ask a question, too. >> please. >> both you and mr. jane mentioned auto escalation. could you explain that a little bit. >> right now. when someone enters into a plan, sometimes they have automatic enrollment and they're automatically put in a plan and sometimes they have to actually enroll in the plan, but once they're in the plan, they're asked periodically if they want
to increase their contribution levels, but in some cases it automatically increases and you get a salary increase and your contribution to your plan increases. there is a current safe harbor that caps how much you can escalate someone up to 10% and legislation included in risa would lift that tab and a llow you to continue escalating people because people need to save more than 10% to reach the retirement goals particularly when they don't save over their whole career. >> mr. estrada? >> yes, sir. one of the things we work with is predatory lending and i would think that that would be a key focus of the commission, and the
idea of how much is extracted from people's savings and bank accounts and to the tune of $208 billion a year in fees and according to the cfeb it shows a systemic issue in terms of cash flow and expenses and 80% of all of the payday loans are renewed within 14 days and are used in a series of ten in a row which shows a more systemic short fall and the district of columbia which have limited the cap on what you can charge on small dollar loans at 36 or less have saved over $2 billion a year in fees and if you include the amount from car tide alones that's another 2.3 and $5 billion a year that can go directly back into consumers and can provide some of the options that financial literacy is geared toward solving in terms of money that can be invested, saved or put to retirement. >> thank you for all those idea,
mr. chairman, i, of course, have more questions, but i want to give others the opportunity to chime in. >> senator scott, do you want to -- take a turn? >> thank you, sir. thank you. i thank the ranking member on holding the hearing on a very important topic and i remember my years in the financial services and there was a book, i can't remember the name of it, and i was trying to remember, was there a number you were supposed to have so you can live comfortably in retirement and i wish someone had written the magic of compounding interest and it would be a far better book for us to appreciate the impact long term of understanding and starting early and not later and someone gave me an example a while back that a person who saves money over the first ten years from 25 to 35, they saved like $30,000 and they compound it at 7% and by
the time they're 65 years old it's $335,000. a person that saves from 35 to 65, $90,000 they invest at the same 7% only has $315,000. so the first ten years were more valuable than your last 30 years and you only saved for ten on the first example and you saved $30,000 on the first example and $90,000 on the second example and you had 7% and the first ten years because of the magic of compounding interest and the value of money and you end up with more money accumulated than you did on the second example that took you literally 30 years versus ten. so how do we get people to understand that important distinction and delineation and what i -- what i have seen happen is a partnership between the nfl and visa to teach
financial football or financial literacy in high schools throughout south carolina and i brought them to my old high school and we played a game against football players from the nfl from the carolina panthers and it turned out to be a really good opportunity for folks, high school students to know the importance of financial lit rassy and to know the difference between a savings account and a checking account and a mortgage, low interest, and no interest and something that goes up recently in four years. they're receptive if we can find the right environment and the right vehicle to communicate this message of financial literacy and i would ask a question. what positive, constructive and raps entertaining and when the
light comes on it rarely goes off if you appreciate the importance of financial literacy and i know that there are a number of examples. myself and joe donnelly, although he's not here, i'm pretending like he's right there. i looked over there, and i imagine him there and he literall literally worked on financial literacy as it relates to college education. what do you get for a political science degree? >> i got lucky last five years, i was lucky, and understand the value of each degree is incredibly important and that should be a part of the financial literacy conversation since we're spending so much time on this trillion dollar student loan debt that we have as a country and perhaps some of that could have been solved if we understood the roi of any degrees. i'm happy to hear of any example of of constructive programs that would get people involved and not have theic chination of
inclination of impressing people. >> since you mentioned the football one, i'm from the great state of alabama. go tide. >> go who? >> i don't know if you've noticed, but whenever alabama is playing on television nick, coach nick saban does the commercial and that commercial talks a student out of buying a very expensive dress and in that commercial he talks her out of buying the dress and tells her why she should save that money inste instead. so one thing that i highly recommend is to reach out to our schools to see if we can start a public/private partnership to get more of those educational messages out there. there are some other terrific things that employers are doing.
they're playing some team games and what we find is that employees like being on a team and they like to win and they particularly like to win t-shirt, but they'll also take other things like money and other thing, too. so gift cards, but playing games that teach them some of these kinds of basic financial concepts and the other thing that we've seen success in is online, some video gaming, and incorporating gaming in the financial education. >> thank you. >> yes, sir. and i think that is the perfect question to kind of illustrate not if financial literacy works, because there are plenty of examples that it does, yes, sir. >> but who it works for, and i think that when you have individuals making tradeoffs between rent, medical care,
food, even 20 or 30 bucks on the front end is going to be impossible to in up with, and i think that any savings that you are able to make and if you account for an income volatility and unexpected expenses, they'll always be in danger of moving from the savings account to the checking account even if you have full knowledge of what that is. if you're in an auto enrollment or retirement plan it might be more expensive or if you have to go to a higher cost payday, and i think the financial lit ras toe create that spark needs to have the nuance in terms of which communities are being targeted and the compound interest is a phenomenal tool if you have $50 a month and this is strictly for individuals living in the poverty line and each in the middle class issue and because of the income volatility itself. i think that access to the
income-smoothing package whether it's to an employer or employee, benefits package and one, not directly related to this committee and its jurisdiction, but public benefits usually have an asset threshold which by logic, punish individuals by not saving for retirement. so i think they're creating competent and relevant financial literacy curricula for communities broken down by the challenges they're facing. you will have no shortage of individuals ready for that knowledge coupled with an actual tool. >> targeted marketing works. >> yeah. >> thank you. i would echo and support my colleagues here and add two things. one is i think technology is giving us more flexibility in how we engage with individuals to deliver messages that are more personalized and more just in time so we're catching
somebody when they're first starting a job and that's that critical moment where if we can engage with them, we can set them on a path that would be productive from a retirement savings perspective and secondly, there's a lot of opportunity on how bee apply real finance and what drives behavior change. >> in particular, we've seen serving how they -- to what rent income that you need will be more motivating because it makes it very simple and it takes all of the math and it boils it down to a number which says you're going to need an income of x, but this is what you're on track for and what do you want to do about it? >> i know i'm way out of time. >> no. no. >> that's such an important point because the reality of it is that so many people think that their savings will match their retirement and the quality
of life that they're experiencing when they're, wo g working will be the same and uninterrupted when in south caroli carolina and i think around the country that the average person has one year of income in the 401(k) and if you take 60,000 and if it produces 7,000 and if you're making 40,000, it's obvious that the pieces don't fit very well. one of the challenges that i think we'll face is the current dynamic is that the average person coming out of college today will have between seven and nine different jobs. so once we're creating a transition and auto portability of the smaller 401(k)s without being exposed to the 10% penalty and we'll have to find ourselves explaining, so to the extent
that we can appreciate the nuance of multiple employers if you're working for a smaller company, they'll have 401(k)s. we're going to miss a golden opportunity for two-thirds or more of our workers. >> ma'am, did you have -- >> yes. >> they identified eight best practices and i'll just target down three that you have referred to. >> yes, ma'am. >> that is not only knowing your population and which demographic do you really want to target and not just the military and we have the entrepreneurs and understanding the population that we want to serve is reach and the others is not just provide programs, programs that inform, but actually change the behavior. what skills they have developed and develop some metrics. the agencies that currently have
metrics measure more how many strokes on the website and what information, access has been reached by the particular communities and more importantly, what we're looking to promote is evidence based like what you cited, not buying the dress in the commercial, but other some very tafrmgible evidence th tangible credit scores as a family liability and not just individual choice or condition. >> absolutely. >> the other is not only to make it easy and to make good decisions. when i say make it easy. it's automation. we talked about automation and the part us pagz of apps have been discussed in some of the round tables that we participated with. >> finally, it's about evaluating the impact so without metrics and without particular
analytic, it's all talk and we're looking and addressing with the private sector what the best practices and what mechanisms and what frameworks are available to promote. ? thank you. >> may i continue this conversation? >> sure. >> i would just say, miss dudley. >> i just think, i have to say this. it can't wait, sir. >> yes. exactly. i will say that had it been a commercial it would have more credibility than the tide have won too many championships already. >> i apologize. >> thank you very much. >> i absolutely am. a couple of thing, i'd like to underscore mr. estrada's point about not letting the accumulation of assets interfere with subsidies.
weave run that with some of our employers where the employers were reluctant to be automatically enrolled out of fear of the impact that that would have on other things that they might be taking advantage of or need and so making that very clear is something that we would strongly support as well, because it is really true you need to target your population and you need to look at and know your population and be evidence based and look to see and monitor whether behavior is being changed or not, but we can help people a lot with technology, and with just access, the multiple employer plan provision and just ask us and automatic enrollment would help people, but we have to make sure that people aren't perceiving that there is a barrier even if it's not there.
>> yes. >> i have a question that senator alexander thought that he would be here for it, but he isn't, but he wanted to have the question asked about something that's in the retire act which is receiving electronic statements to improve retiree earnings and that would allow the electronic delivery of required retirement plan documents and as individuals receive more and more information online it only seems reasonable the way the retirement plan documents are delivered should keep up with the times. robust consumer protections, of course, and so, unfortunately, not everyone sees it that way, but i'm hopeful that congress will pass the legislation and i'm speaking on behalf of senator alexander and i agree with him which would not only provide plans of hundreds of billions of dollars in annual savings and would be
environmentally friendly. so can any of you comment on allowing electronic delivery and the e-delivery of planned documents and how it would compliment and complicate financial literacy. >> miss dudley, would you like to start? >> i'll start, but i don't want to take away from other people. we feel very strongly about harnessing technology. technology, you can see in the examples that i included in the testimony. employers are embracing technology to deliver tools to our employees and they're asking for more tools. i feel very confident. i've worked in this business for a long, long time now, many decades and i really feel like this is something that we can find common ground on with everyone. this is a bipartisan initiative to take advantage of technology in delivering information and in
utilizing applications on telephones to facilitate people's access to information. one of the things that we've discover side people like what we understand is that people like to be able to find things quickly and they want to be able to do it in any hour of the day. and so -- and they don't want to dig through, you know, a box to find the document. they want to be able to just go on line and find it. so we would strongly support the -- we think the need is there, the time is right to do this. >> anyone else wish to comment on that? thank you. dr. jones -- >> i would like to go back for a moment really to something mr. astrada said, some of the three tiers of problems. we talked about student loan debt. but we all mentioned predatorial lending. that's a particular problem in
alabama. i know it is in other states as well and something i have been really interested in even before i got to the senate. i would like for you to talk about that a little bit because in alabama, and how that affects, you know, potential retirees. because in alabama there is an -- the numbers are staggering, the amount of loans being taken, the number of loans per person. and it seems like the consumer financial product bureau has not been as aggressively pursuing predatory lending as i would like. it's rolling back some more now and leaving some to state. if you would discuss a little bit. i know it is a little bit beyond the jurisdiction of this committee. but other committee are looks too, what is it that we can do that might help? what tools can we give to states f necessary? or what can we give here in congress to try to help this problem? because it is a snowballing effect.
it really just damages so many people. and i'll let everybody answer it, but you brought it up particularly, i think. >> thank you for that question. and i will try to keep it as tailored to this committee or at least the issues of retirement. but that is a foundational threat to retirement security as we see it. as i mentioned it's billions of dollars a year are siphoned off by the predatory loan products. the most concerning aspect is that this kind of flies in the face of any type of responsible for lending or how credit should work. the very business model of a payday loan is relying on the inability of the borrower to pay back the principle. and that it is never kind of one and done. the research is there, we have done it. coalition partners have done it. the first payday loan is really just the first in a death trap cycle. we have seen -- in our research report we just put one out today
in michigan. we have also done want in colorado the effects of this. it is a domino effect. another big aspect of the loan is they have a superior lien against your bank account through an ach, so that comes out first before rent or bills. then we see you get overdrafted, then your bank account closes and you lose -- you can't pay your car payment and we have seen it escalate into bankruptcy. it is a parasitic product because any savings is automatically eatan away with these products. the brut reality is that you can make affordable products in the regulatory framework we have now. this speaks again to the economic rethinking that we needed how to regulate this space. competitive markets don't funk in this industry. usually that's the big driver for bringing down prices. you compete on service. but in every single case and every single state, the more
actors you have, in fact, it's the worst it is. because everyone charges right up to what the competitors, the state interest rate caps are. so a lot of what we have relied upon in the past is the cfpb needs aggressive regulation of this, especially the pay day rule by next summer. under the current leadership a lot of that has been scaled not not only from the director to delay the implementation or delaying the rule but dropping actions against pay day lenders that have proven to be defrauding customers or charging more than legally permissible. the director has also joined a lawsuit against -- or did join a lawsuit against the bureau itself to stay the rule. we have definitely seen a shift in the direction of their
priority of pay day lending and we are very much concerned about that. to bring it back to what we can do, especially on the state level is that one of the biggest protections we have against predatory lending is state interest rate caps. the ability to police their own consumers and determine what works for them. to push out the pedder to lenders and limit the loans. the integrity of the state interest rate caps that are there must remain intact. for those states that don't, it's really -- i don't want to get too in the weeds but dodd/frank -- they need to implement parts of dodd/frank where they can fill in the gap and have the rule go into affect as planned with continued work on long term rule of 45 days or more. a really long answer. a short summary is that it is one of the biggest debt riments to financial security and it has
a domino effect of siphoning off any ability of savings before you have the privilege of asking should i spend or save? these products prevents you from ever arriving at that question because you are constantly behind and constantly threatened. >> as kind of a follow-up on that, in your testimony you mentioned your organization's affiliation with self help credit unions. can you kind of describe what that is and what services it provides, and how widespread it is? >> correct. crl is a policy affiliate of self help credit union based in do you rememberham. it is primarily -- it is a cdfi geared forward with low income rule female headed families. we provide loans to small businesses, lmi customers and serve through retail branches consumers in five or six states now, including wisconsin, north
carolina, florida, california, and was really started in itself as a credit union in the '80s as a response to the lack of lending to african-americans in the do you rememberham area. the legacy of red lining was real and indisputable. our ceo started this credit union with that mission. we are very much carrying through that mission on the policy side and have had that kind of input from an industry perspective of kind of what works, what products have worked, what products don't, what's kind of a threat to financial stability, and what would directly compromise that. >> good step. good positive action. miss dudley? >> i just wanted to add one thing. i would underscore that the importance of addressing the issue of these lending practices, but as a barrier to retirement savings and bring it
back a little bit to retirement savings. we recognize that this serves as a barrier to savings. and employers have increasingly embraced this by trying to address the emergency savings funds or trying to help people address problems where they are caught up in pay day loan sort of a cycle. one of our members -- and this -- really, many more of them have this, but one of our members even established a not for profit trust to provide emergency payment so people didn't have to go to a pay day loan. they would like to see some policy support of -- particularly from a tax standpoint for the individuals that may have to utilize night would that be in the form of like a grant, you know, or a
loan? low interest -- >> it could be something like grant or it could be something -- typically, they are just -- they don't have to pay it back. they rely on contributions. >> right. okay. >> but facilitating those contributions where people maybe can make those contributions on a tax deductible basis to encourage more employees to contribute or helping the person who gets a payment out of there instead of getting a pay day loan by giving them a tax break if they do have to take it. that's -- there are a variety of ideas that we could explore if people wanted to. but they find that maintaining this trust through the contributions of all the employees helps to push down the number of their employees that are caught up in the pay day cycle. >> interesting. mr. jain. >> i would echo miss dudley's
comment that one of the root causes for pay day lendsing is a lack of emergency savings. roughly half of americans can't fund a few hundred dollars in emergency expense. so we, from a work site financial allowance perspective, we think there is interesting opportunities to leverage existing retirement plans to create emergency savings funds for individuals. what that does is leverages the convenience of existing payroll deduction. participants are already familiar with these plans. it is easy for the employer. but it is a way to help employees build a buffer of $1,000, $2,000 in savings that when you know an emergency hits, if they have to fix their car or there is a medical expense they can tap that sort of savings instead of going to a source such as a pay day lender. we also think that will have the benefit of reducing retirement plan leakage. in addition in accessing pay day
lenders many individuals take loans from their 401k plans which often then personal innly impacts their retirement preparedness. >> do you have an additional question? >> i don't know to monopolize the time i just wanted to give context that we every year along with coalition partners do a non-partisan pole and that this regulation and concern over predatory lendsing is non-partisan broadly supported issue, like across republican, democrat, independent on the sense of equity. this is something that everybody supports across the political spectrum. and we work wildly with our faith commune across many denominations that this is a very broad and unified coalition in terms of our concern. i'm happy to hear the it's being -- >> one thing before we get to senator scott. one of the things wim concerned about. the statistics in alabama we can
talk about our emergency loans but so many of them are not -- it depends on your emergency. it's paying the power bill sometimes and making ends meet and putting food on the table for your children in many instances is for a lot of people how this starts as opposed to the car that breaks down and you can get to work or you have an emergency medical bill, so -- >> yeah. we recognize that. we know -- in fact this one employer that i was mentioning, they have a -- they can pay out in 24 hours. and they have a group of folks that are employees with the same company. and they administer it. and they meet typically almost every day because somebody's almost always got something. and they have it down to about 24 hours. >> wow. >> they can -- but it is a real problem. >> i will shift the gears a little bit again, and -- because the -- i know the american benefits council has some
enthusiasm for the open multiple employer plans, small business can pool their retirement plans. we have a couple glitches with that yet but i think they hold a lot of promise for expanding options for retirement savings options for employees of small business, custom is usually the administrative part of that that creates a lot of difficulties and a lot of additional expense. but if we can group them together they can do something with it. so under these plans, would sponsors have greater access to the financial literary resources for the 401ks that you talked about today? >> that's a great question. i am so glad you mentioned those. we are huge fans of the multiple employer man. and it is included in reesa as well. and the reason we are is because we do think it will reduce costs, make it easier for people to have access.
not only small employers, but individual people that maybe have multiple jobs can treat themselves as if they are self-employed and can participate. we have a lot of companies that are poised to provide multiple employer plans, including financial education, financial tools, financials -- you know, financial tools and budgeting basic budgeting information to work with people who are participating in multiple employer plans. and also address the lifetime, the period of time in retirement to help people understand those options as well. so it's actually a door that we need to find a way to open and let people in. >> thank you. and for treasurer carranza, i
nicolle know you will be looking at promoting financial security they have as many missions as the organizations themselves, based on any of your work so far is there any consistent coordination between federal agencies and non-profits? >> yes, the term duplicative i use very cautiously. but most definitely we have agencies that do very, very good work in that area. but it's done between several agencies. and we are looking to try to better collaborate and coordinate those efforts. one because i believe that some of the agencies design their particular programs or products based on the constituency they may have. i will give you a big example. which is dog, they are unique, they are different services. they have portals for the navy and the army and air force. and each one has a unique need.
-- d.o.j. however, our reform efforts are to take advantage of the best practices. and the best tools that are in place, measurements as well, and consider the population with the greatest need and focus in on those areas. but yes, it's a plethora of opportunities for us to improve the work, the body of work of the financial literacy and financial education commission. >> i am real lee excited that you are in charge this task force. and i have seen your good work with the small business administration. i look forward to the results from it. >> thank you. >> senator scott. >> thank you. >> one of the things that i hope that we don't forget. while the government can play a significant role in helping to educate the public the reality is that there are a lot of private sector tools that are already available.
we are in a way trying to solve a problem that we can't solve with our tools. the old saying is ignorance is bliss. it is not bliss. small employers, which two out of three new jobs are being created by small employers, not guy government anywhere. you can get a simplified 401 kz plan started for under $1,000. it is not that the expense is so high. sometimes the information that is being disseminated to the small businesses doesn't get to the desk of the guy or the gal who has to be business owner, widget maker, human resource, the legal department. so part of our problem is disseminating information in a consistent way that allows a small business owner -- perhaps that's part of our target market that we should be looking at, the small business owner as so many of the folks who will be challenged in retirement will come from one of those business. but there is also an important
role in the entire financial literacy conversation conversation around certainty and redakotaibility. there are a number of programs today -- i'm not sure if they are familiar with them but i would love to hear your comments on them that during the aknewtive phase you have a guaranteed return on the dollar, 5, 6, 7%. the allstates, the prudentials of the world guarantee the money going out will be at 7:00%. if you have $100,000 accumulated you have a 5, 6, 7% guarantee that's part of the answer to how much am i going to have in my retirement. it has a fixed interest to deal with the lifetime of the individual. those types of plans and the dissemination of that information is critical for us to have the certain and predictability the average person is looking for.
>> i absolutely agree. and just to build on or to respond to the kmpts i think one of the key issues from a retirement preparedness standpoint is the very varying longevity outcomes that participants might have. some individuals might live until their late 60s. some until their late 90s. it is how do you then plan for a retirement that might last anywhere from five years to 30 years. so we -- you know, providing private sector solutions that help spread longevity risk across many individuals we think is going to be critical to helping maximize individuals' retirement assets. we think there is an option to provide more of these solutions within work site retirement plans and we think we can help with addressing some of the obstacles that currently prevent some plan sponsors from introducing these types of solutions.
>> do you have a question or a response. >> i would add -- undercorps mr. jaip's point. we think there are real opportunities to address the concerns about longevity risk which very people really understand when they retire, they don't really have an appreciation for the impact of longevity risk and the interrelationship of health care costs and longevity risk, and how those fit together. but we do think retirement plans -- there is a wonderful opportunity to help people start preparing for that with their first dollar, by embedding some of the solutions in the investment options. >> yes. >> there are some barriers to doing that. but we think that together we can perhaps break down some of those barriers and help employers. a lot of employers are relugt ant to put them in there because of their concerns about the fiduciary issues around them. >> as i am running out of time
in this question phase which obviously i am not sensitive to running out of time. i was seven minutes overtime last time. our target market for this conversation isn't the simple default, those living in poverty, or those in the bottom quinn tile of earners. the reality of it is that your target market for this conversation is the middle income earner because those living closer to poverty with the social security benefits included in, they are at the lowest risk of all of our folks. >> right. >> and we don't typically appreciate that. so the folks who are actually the target market for us from a financial literacy perspective on retirement should be the average earner, not necessarily those folks who may be exposed to pay day lending and everything that we are very concerned about. the sec thing i would say is that because of that first comment, that long term care
aspect of retirement is one of the major concerns of anyone in middle america because the ability to outlive your income is one thing. if you find yourself needing assistance in your retirement through a long term care facility -- if we are looking at complimentary or harmonizing the benefits that need to work together, your 401(k) and your long term care planning or the lack of it could implode your entire plan plan if in fact it costs you $200 or $300 a day in a long term care facility. once again those folks at the threshold, above the threshold of poverty, medicaid is going to respond quicker than the person who has to deplete their assets down to $3,000 and totally destroy their financial plan. i am not sure it is a question. it certainly is a question. i would say, if it was a question how would we fuse together the important reality of long term care, providing for
long term care and the 401k, slash, financial literacy concerns we have over just retirement, if it is not a health care conversation as well. >> we think it is a health care conversation as well. because we -- as you age, health care takes up a bigger portion. or -- by health care, i'm including personalized care. you know, just help getting around, just physically getting around. and those kinds of tools that you need to get around. those things take an increasing amount of your money. and so being prepared for that, one of the things -- that's one of the reasons that we have tried to integrate in our health well-being programs. you know, the financial security includes addressing health care and vice versa. in our financial planning we try to include health care.
the other thing that we really think that you need -- we need to do all together, besides just educating people -- and we have a number of ideas about that, but also, we need to let some of these products evolve a little bit. we need to give enough flexibility. we want to break down the barriers so companies can put these, you know, different investment options in the plans. but you don't want them to be limited in their innovation so that they can evolve to do more things. if that makes sense. >> absolutely. on life insurance side already we are seeing anable to use part of the benefit before you pass away to pay for some of the long term care challenges. >> right. and maybe there is a way to take some of the health care dollars and help you use that for retirement, in retirement. >> i'm only three minutes over. i apologize.
thank you very much. >> that's fine. mr. astrada i think wanted to comment. >> i just wanted to share some of our research, especially to your first comment. a lot of the impact and dangers of pay day lending is in fact for middle income individuals that have an income and bank account. it is -- we are seeing the negative impacts across the full spectrum. >> no doubt when you study the figures. one of the things that manifests very quickly is the bottom two quinn tiles is when you see the most damaging exposure and the cycle never ends. as you move up the income statta you find that that impact plateaus at some point and the top end or heading towards that middle income, that $55,000, $58,000, you start seeing a different utilization from my understanding of the pay day
lending. not to suggest that it doesn't exist there. that the most powerful impact that we see, especially when we study our troops, to folks living in poverty, is that at e 2, 3, 4, and the folks under that 45 to $50,000 range is the research that we have done on that. i'm not here to debate that point. my point is simply if you are looking at a target audience for this conversation lets not forget middle america. not that you don't have an audience above that or beyond that or above it, but that's why we see the social security system was designed to live off of for three years after retirement because they were going to die three years after retirement. now they live up to 15 years after retirement. factoring that in, i think it's important to bring that focus back. that was my only point. thanks. >> i want to thank everybody for their participation, your time,
insights and hopefully some answers to some questions that will also be submitted that will wind up with us doing some additional legislation or perhaps the committee will come up with solutionless for us and we won't have to do that. pressure, pressure. i think we have got the right person heading that up. i want to thank the members of the committee that participated today. i think we have got a lot of information and ideas. i each have a few memories that i wrote down that are a little peripheral to all of it. when we were doing education planning i took my oldest daughter to college. and they found out that she had savings because we made our kids work. they said you know, you would have been better off if you had bought a car with that. you would qualify better for financial help. then they suggested that since we owned a shoe store we could
sell a fourth of our store each year and pay for her college education. didn't work with our financial plans either. i would ask that the hearing records stay open ep for ten days to accommodate additional questions for witnesses. if there isn't any further business to come before the committee it stands adjourned. thank you. >> thank you.
tonight on american history tv, the archival film series, reel america, featuring world war ii films created by the u.s. army's signal corps under the supervision of frank cap re, the films were designed to show the causes of the conflict to u.s. troops. the first film in the why we fight series was prelude to war which covers the outbreak of world war ii to the pearl harbor attack and explores the rise of authoritarianism in germany, italy, and japan. american history tv begins at 8:00 p.m. eastern. this weekend, on american history tv on c-span3, saturday, at 10:00 p.m. eastern, on reel america. >> we are privileged to witness tonight a significant achievement in the cause of peace. an achievement none thought
possible a year ago. or even a month ago. an achievement that reflects the courage and wisdom of these two leaders. >> the 1978 film, framework for peace on the camp david peace accor accords. and sunday at 6:00 p.m. on american artifacts a look back on the 1998 bombings at the u.s. baess in my roba and -- >> we were meeting with the minister of commerce. we heard an explosion. most of us went to the window. ten seconds later, a freight train sounding impact of high energy hit all of us. 213 people were instantly killed. 48 of whom were employees of the
united states government. >> watch on american history tv this weekend on c-span3. this weekend on book tv. saturday, at 4:15 p.m. eastern, bob woodward's interview on his new book, fear, trump in the white house. >> somebody in a key position after the book came out who is in office now called me and said, everyone knows what you have in this book is 1,000% correct. >> then at 9:00 p.m. eastern, former independent counsel ken starr discusses his book, contem contempt, a memoir of the clinton investigation. >> what i'm saying there in the -- about the clinton experience is we learn from our history as a free people. impeachment was not the wise way to go. >> and on sunday at 9:00 p.m. eastern on after words, former
secretary of state john kerry discusses his book, every day is extra. he is interviewed by former congresswoman and president and ceo of the wilson center, jane harmon. >> john and i were flying to kuwait on an airplane. we didn't know each other very well, but we were seated opposite each other by seniority which is what happens in the senate. srt is what brought us together. we had a conversation into the night talking about annapolis and his father and grand parents, and his family and his own service and his time as a prisoner. he wanted to learn more about what happened with us and how we fought and what it was like and so forth. we pledged to each other that -- that the country was still too divided over the war. that we thought we needed to try to find a way to not just make peace with vietnam but make peace at home. >> watch this weekend on c-span2's book tv.
senate judiciary committee chair chuck grassley has called a hearing for monday to give supreme court nominee brett kavanaugh a long with professor ford a chance to testify. professor ford accused the judge of sexually assaulting her in high school. while she has not agreed to testify monday professor ford's lawyer says she is willing to testify sometime next week under certain conditions. we plan live coverage on monday's session on c-span scheduled to begin at 10 a.m. eastern. also available on c-span.org. you can listen with the c-span radioapp. we will also be live with any further meetings of the judiciary committee. next a look at the political situation in iraq after parliamentary elections were held there earlier this year. also, the u.s. involvement in iraqi security operations. the hudson institute organized this event.