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tv   A Female Spy in Cold War Russia  CSPAN  December 2, 2018 6:25pm-7:42pm EST

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>> tonight at eight eastern on c-span's q&a. next, on american history tv, former spy martha peterson talks about the book the widow spy. she explains why she joined the cia will after -- the cia after her husband died. the bob center for public service at the university of florida hosted this event. david colburn, i'm director of the bob graham center. we are pleased to have with us this evening to introduce our --aker before he comes up i want to say that normally the way we do things is the speaker speaks between 30 and 45 minutes, the
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last 15 minutes our questions. bank -- thisike over here. we like our students to have the opportunity to go first. we ask that you make no speeches. out of courtesy to everybody here this evening, if you could keep your question so synced -- questions so synced -- questions succinct that would help a lot. a major donor along with his wife, catherine. campus,ook around this you won't find herb and katherine's name in a lot of places, but they could be. to put theirhumble
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names on anything. when you go to the gardens, they were done by herb and catherine. been a longtime friend of our speaker this evening. i would like him to do the introductions. if you would. [applause] dave is any knows author. everybody knows he's a historian. you know those kind of people take liberties. don't pay a lot of attention to what he said. when i first came to this university in 1946 it was a boy's school. the song we know are the boys from old florida. women weren't allowed. now i find out 56% of the enrollment is women. and i find out we are in a much
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healthier position then we were there that were then -- then we were then. a man was walking on the beach outside of los angeles. he rubbed the bottle and out came the genie. the genie said, i will give you one wish. said, i've always wanted to go to hawaii, but i'm afraid of flying and i get seasick. would you build me a bridge from here to hawaii? the genie said, that's more than we can ask, i can't do that. he said, would you give me the ability to understand women? the genie said, do you want a two-lane bridge or a four-lane bridge? we are going to talk to your speaker tonight, who is a very accomplished woman.
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and as part of our generation, the people as old as i, we only use half of our population. we are going to use 100% of our population how much better is our country going to be. we are going to get all of our citizens involved. the young lady that's going to talk to you as one of the that didn't accept the minority position or the minority opportunities given to women. do a veryo, i can good job in a very dangerous profession. and she did. our speaker has briefed president in the oval office. the current director of the cia served as her deputy. this is a very accomplished woman. husbando introduce her to you. concordeer on the
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project. it's my pleasure to introduce to you a very accomplished woman, mother of two, grandmother of peterson -- >> thank you. thank you for a glowing introduction and thank you for having me here. is a thrill to be at the university of florida because i have a great nephew here as well. always thought of the university of florida as a special place. amazed at how much it has grown over the years and what a
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wonderful opportunity it is for all of you who are attending here. people ask me why i would join the cia and how did that happen? that is the starting point of my talk today. i went to a small university in new jersey. i studied theology and psychology. student.t a generic i had very little interest in the cold war. it under my i never thought i would end up working for the cia for 32 years.
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met a man named john peterson. andnd i began dating eventually after college he went and into special forces and off to vietnam where everyone ended up. this was in the late 60's. amazingly he came back alive. many didn't, and we have a wall and docket -- a wall in washington to document back. it was only after he got married he told me he had applied for the cia. he wasn't allowed to tell me before we were married. cia and trained as a paramilitary officer. he went to camp perry in williamsburg virginia, the secret training camp.
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and he accomplished all he had there.r -- all he had to we had our first assignment overseas. it was a small landlocked country alongside vietnam. fight what the cia called their secret war in laos. if you are interested in all the factors that brought us to that point in history, it is well documented on the cia website. .t is don't go to, that won't tell you much. trust me. war in laos was to fight a war with very few
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americans involved compared to the war that was going on in vietnam. with this small group of cia men in laos, we were to train, equip and the ploy laos soldiers, -- and the ploy -- and deploy laos soldiers who would interrupt -- in the north, the war was actually engage the north vietnamese army as well as the path of the army there. our job was well planned and orchestrated with a minimum of people and equipment. back weay in looking
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lost a very few americans. jon's job was to organize these troops. i didn't know much about the war when we met. cia.n't know much about i worked in the office. they hired us to keep us from drinking every afternoon. we figured that out. we were hired to do the menial ib in the office worried eventually got to know what the cia was about their.
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my parents came to visit us in laos. what were they thinking? it's a 12 hour time zone difference. my mother and father arrived at -- airport area we put in airport. we put them in our land rover. we boosted my mom into the back seat. i call it our french colonial house. when we got there mother got out of the van. and she looked over to the side. she said, is that a marijuana plant?
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i said, i don't know, mom. you know what's interesting, i didn't know. that was in 1971. 72. 1990ther passed away in and i never asked her how she knew. father around. i took my mother downtown to the markets. we heard this noise. mother looked at me and she iid, what's that noisy echo said it's loud thunder. bangkok until we got to wasn't, itit really was the t 28 bombers who were
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cia trained pilots. the hore bombing along chi minh trail. world, and ierent was afraid my parents would fear for our safety. i'm on a plane into los angeles california. i get on the plane. my daughter, who i'm visiting their, has a van scheduled to pick me up. someone holds up a sign, i say that's me. it was just the driver and me. and ied up in the mere said, where are you from? he said, the far east. he said thailand. paid -- lived in laos laos.
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he said in the capital? i said no, i lived -- he said, my mother lives there. he says i used to work there. pilot that used to work for the cia. we used to bomb along the ho chi minh trail. and great tears conversation between us. we got to my daughter's apartment about an hour later. he got the bag out, i hugged my daughter. she came over to me and we had this wonderful embrace. my daughter looked at us and she said, "mom, that wasn't a very long trip." small world.
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john went to work early one morning. he left the house at 4 a.m. in his k 47. he was dressed in his work clothes. it was october 19, 1972. that was the last i saw. he died that day in a helicopter crash. splitife changes in a second. like i said, it was a small group of cia men who were working there. and very few died. i came home to the states. i didn't know what to do. we were 27. stops short like that you have moments of total blankness.
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learned that the friendships you make are the friendships you keep forever. you keep these friends forever. i had dinner with these friends who lived in maryland. so we sat around the table. his wife was a very good cook. i said what should i do now that this has happened to me? the interesting thing, we had wine that tonight. we drink wine with these wonderfully shaped bottles. this was gallon by the gallon. ideas got even better. he said to me, why don't you go and work for cia?
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you have a masters degree, you have work experience and you can do the work that any fellow can do. i applied. me person who interviewed wanted to make me a secretary. they wanted to make me a training assistant. said, i'm sorry, i want to be in operation officer. in theto do the work field, collecting intelligence. it took some time. october and on july 3 of 1973i was sworn in as a cia officer. through all the training with a few women. we had all made it through that
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loop, who knows how. and we all made it through the training. of course we had to find our first job. they offered me a very interesting position. they offered me a position in moscow. ussr 1975. learningspend 44 weeks the russian language. i also took karate at the time. that was on me. i wanted to be prepared. learn how also had to -- also has a learn how to detect -- i had to learn how to use technical equipment, how to
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collect radio broadcasts and things like that. in november of 1975i was ready to go. florida with a heavy polo coat over my arm. i arrived in moscow on the fifth of november. they had a parade the next day for me, which was the october revolutionary parade. i remember landing at the at the sidelooking of the runway as we taxied in. it looked like snow. it was snow. it was in sand like i had left in florida. they had already had a significant snowfall in moscow. it was a very abrupt start.
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they had no jet ways at the time. walk down the staircase onto the tarmac. i had that heavy coat and i was glad. signember looking at the over the airport. i wonder how many people are looking at me and wondering whether or not i'm a cia spy. i got inside the airport, i gave the man my passport. he took it under the desk and he looked at it. he looked at me and looked at the passport. i thought that was the first hurdle. i was driven to a hotel in moscow where i spent only one night.
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i couldn't go out to eat, but my mother had packed a bag of apples in my bag. that was dinner. i was wondering all the time, where are they looking at me from in this hotel room. you get paranoid in a situation like that. i went to the ,mbassy and to the cia station which we call our cia offices overseas. as well as many other young people. i was the only woman in the station in moscow. tech -- job was to do
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was to check and see if i was being followed by the kgb. i bought a car, orange. they painted to so many orange, some any blues. mine was orange. i thought i will be easy to follow. office, andto the they gave me a piece of equipment to where. it is an eavesdropping piece of equipment. it had one frequency, one crystal in it. theould pick up communications between the members of the kgb surveillance team. it was a box about that big. it plugged into the top of the box.
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and then the men in the station had this harness. we didn't want anyone to know we wore this piece of equipment. they flipped the radio in there. the harness didn't fit my equipment. it never worked very well. i was always afraid of wood become apparent to people -- afraid it would become apparent to people. there was a new event -- new invention. it was called velcro.
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up a t-shirt. it was a movable. i plug in the next loop. the year piece, which could listen to the next loop. i would drive a plea -- drive a .replanned route i would take things out of my car, put them back in. wearinggo to the store this sr-100. what i would listen for is the kgb talking to one another about my movements, correlating to my movements. fellows all surveillance all the time would
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go out this is what they would hear on their earpiece. the target's loss, theft target is lost, target's home. that's what they were hearing. when i went out this is what i heard. so i changed the batteries. earpiece and still i heard nothing. the only time i heard transmissions through the year peas was when i was in the company of an embassy officer kgb andd to taunt the he would get surveillance. i would hear his surveillance conversation through my year peas when i was close to him. his team was close to them. they would go, have you heard
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any surveillance? i would say no. of course they all go, she's not seeing it. they would set up elaborate plans around the city. my colleagues would be out and about. career did i ever trust that. i always did my counter surveillance runs. why were we in moscow? collectingre intelligence from live sources. from soviet sources who had been able to be recruited overseas. officers were looking for kgb and soviet officials who
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would be willing to work covertly for the cia. the first officer who i handled in moscow was in columbia. we have a telephone tap on the soviet embassy. there was a man in the soviet embassy there who didn't quite color inside the lines. he liked to party, he liked to drink. money exchanges and he had several girlfriends among them. we knew he was different from the standard kgb officer, who is generally pretty by the book.
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we realized he had a latin girlfriend as well. someone at jodey from spain. month tont home one visit her family. on the way back through the airport we had one of our colombian friends pulled her aside and ask her whether she would be willing to speak to who was interested in .er boyfriend she arranged for us to meet with the soviet official. his name was alexander. was that's how we always referred to him.
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arrangement was for one of our officers to meet him in the hotel in the turkish bath. you figure when men going to a turkish spa, they wear a towel. they couldn't hide a listening device. our officer met him in the turkish bath. he knew exactly what we were talking about. he could obtain through his position in the soviet embassy. that's where the story started about try gone -- about trigon. until the fall of 74 when he
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went back home at the end of this tour. he was married. his wife worked there. he sprouted all kinds of intelligence from the soviet embassy. as well as what the soviets were collecting on the chinese. he first took handwritten notes about -- notes of the documents and used a 35mm camera. 35 liter cameras make a huge noise when they go click. ,ventually we gave him a camera which was concealed.
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this is the fountain pen. the camera was inside the barrel of the pen. up andd hold the camera push this down, which took a complete page of a document and lose the full frame forward one. it was the most miraculous camera we ever had. it was film, though. we had to develop it. we had to get the film back from him in order to send it back to washington for him to be developed that for it to be developed.
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-- for it to be developed. ofprovided us 80 frames documents per cassette. the cassette he would change out in the barrel of the pen. him on all kinds of things. we trained them on radio broadcasts, on secret writing and how to use carbon to write notes on the back of letters. and we also taught him different useography techniques to with his camera. he was a very well trained agent. he was eager to be the best agent we have. he was very productive. i think he got satisfaction from that part. ego.s the
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he was very clever and productive. all the times we are training him, he is carrying on this affair. he came to the case officer there, the cia officer, and she told the cia officer she was pregnant. she wanted him to go back to moscow and then be ex filtrated out of moscow by the cia, then they could live their life. and also he agreed. he also had one stipulation before he left and went back to moscow. wanted to wait to commit --
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and faced interrogation and brutal torture. the cia agreed to do this. i was shocked. i was a brand-new officer. we agreed to do that. we returned to moscow, we put in a second pen. ,nside the barrel of this pen in the place where the ink is stored with a small capsule of poison. i asked what kind of poison. i don't know. it was supposedly very effective. it was at the end of this
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in the event he was caught, he could take his pen and bite down it and commitof suicide. he also had a third pen, it was the normal pen that worked as a pen. what we wanted him to have was always that pen in his pocket. hisas accepted as part of daily dress, what he wore every day. straight, i will never know, but he knew which was which. arrived inmoscow and the fall of 1974. i arrived in 1975. we told him we would keep him on ice for a whole year. arrivalhortly after my in november of 1975 that he put up a signal that he was ready to deliver a package to us. the package was to be located a sidewalk.t ago of
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-- court ago of a sidewalk. station,y chief of jack, was selected to go because he jogged every morning. he is a marine and he jogged a similar route every morning. he would get up at 5:30 in the morning and would go up along the river. on his return back he would come through that area. the day that he picked up the drop, a surveillance team was sitting in their car. why? to traine has come them. it was very cold out. it was like 20 degrees fahrenheit. uptead of following this man and out in the cold, they realized he was going up, he would turn around and come back. he really had trained his team. the warm car as they
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watched him go up and come back and he went through the area. he reached down, he picked up the package and tucked it inside his jogging suit. milk pyramid shaped cartons were kind of crushed. when jack got back to the station that morning after he went home and changed his closing came to work our technical officer opened it up and inside with three pieces of paper. two of which had children's drawings on. one was a jungle gym looking thing in the other look like a small sample. on the back he had used his secret writing, training and carbon and had written us an extensive note. said he was glad to be back in touch with us. he had divorced his wife to keep her out of these nefarious affairs.
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acquiredy that he had a new position. that is what we knew people were most interested in. his position was in the ministry of foreign affairs in the global office. said, he received documents from all around the that were written by soviet in bassett sitters and embassies. so they had embassies in every capital of the world. had access to on a daily basis at his desk. he could read what the impassive are in tokyo was doing and writing about the activities in tokyo or in mexico city, or in london, or in washington, d c. reading the letter back
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to the ministry of foreign affairs. it was absolute gold. there were five copies made. it was called a blue border report and there were only five president, for the vice president, of course for the secretary of defense and secretary of state. he had not only fulfilled getting back into the country , going truly investigations, which they all had to comment he now had landed a job in the ministry of foreign affairs. now, my job and all of us in the station was to go out and pick their whichfrom contained cassettes from the camera, which we also gave to
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him once he got back into moscow. my lack of of surveillance, and of course you understand why i had no surveillance. look at me, who would follow me. like every other single woman in the embassy. went to the, i marine bar. i went to the marine house movies. i had friends, girlfriends in the embassy. i went to wine and cheese parties. went out in the city. we drove all around on weekends looking at churches. doing what a normal single woman would do in moscow. who would follow? this is what happens. the kgb overlook me. did not realize that i was an operations officer. profile of all the other single women in the in the sea. -- in the embassy.
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was case a site that by another officer before i got there. it within parts of getty, a mormon -- a war memorial south of the city and that is where we had a deadlock site. called les. gone and ie that try exchanged packages. day on go on a specific the calendar that we gave him and i would go out and do a two and a half hour surveillance run around the city. team in the station, we would sit around and we would design the route i would take. i would drive that route and
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looking andurs listening for surveillance. if i discovered i had no surveillance i would park my car in a location which would not come under suspicion for a car with diplomatic plates on it. it was generally closer to the city on the side street. i would leave the car there, i would get into the subway system and i would ride several stops. i would change. i would write another line. i would change, eventually i stop get out at a metro not too far from the location. out intoalk from there the part. the park had a one way road to the center of it. as it was coming towards me
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i walked along the path under the trees on the right side. path underhe same the trees on the other side of the road. i went down to the right side of the road under the tree, though i could not be seen from anyone driving on the road. i walked down a ways and then i the post and there was that had a number on it. all of the lampposts were numbered. we had given try gone the location and the number on the post. is it show action's were that the officer would deliver a at thisto him particular lampposts. i would deliver it at 9:00 at night. he was to come one hour later at 10:00, pick up the package i left for him and put down his
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package for me. laterd come back one hour and pick his package up. this was called a double exchange. the the only way we could do this is if i had no survey lands. i would never take surveillance to a spot and then returned to a spot. typical to the types of deliveries that we made. brought along an example of what i delivered in the woods. log.s a this is from our home in wilmington, north carolina. it would not be typical to a log in the middle of the woods. but i wanted to show you about the size of the package. ins was made at our lab
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washington. they cut the top off, hollow it out and then inside we would place all the things we wanted them to have. first, the camera pin -- camera 10. we would put in there a role of money in different denominations. just a few it happen asked her bit of money. most of his pay went into an escrow account at cia. hundreds of thousands of dollars in his hand in moscow. we found agents often overspent and charged interest in themselves. was putting here admiral emerald jewelry. he had requested that. buy emerald jewelry and then
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included in his package. he gave that emerald jewelry to his mother. he knew that if anything happened to him she probably would not get any life insurance money. we also put in here a personal note to him just to tell him that we were proud of him. not as specific as to the intelligence he was providing in case some stranger found him. that is what was put in the log. i would walk up to the lampposts and i would trap -- drop it down at the base of the lampposts so it look like it just fell off of the tree. because i had no surveillance, we just dropped often. this is the drop site that i eventually gave him the pen that contain the poison in it.
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their and id leave would walk into a very large soviet housing development and walk around. i always wear very drab colored close. hair, which i put back and i try to look as un-american as i possibly could. came and picked up the package and left his package. in two hours i would come back and then i would pick up his package. he was very creative. he's that pyramid shape milk are in often, but he also uses one glove, which was oil filled crumbly and nasty. inside he would put his package for me. if it were these cassettes out
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of the camera he would wrap hese inside of a condom would tie it tight. in not at the top of it so it would remain dry and clean. he also put in that package. 35mm film, which was his operational note back to us. it was not developed film. it was raw filmed undeveloped in the event something -- someone found it. if they did they would pull it out and expose the film and ruined it. he also wrote us a very long letter and he would take his camera and take a picture of each page. that was his note to us. he would tell us how he would feel. he was telling us his personal trials and how the car did not work.
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just personal notes to us, which we always read with such great interest. i cannot imagine what it was like for him to sit in the foreign affairs all by himself, taking pictures covertly with a pen, secreting these little cassettes, living on his own and living this life of complete secrecy. girlfriends.everal at one time i went to deliver a theage and as i approach street crossing, before i went down the path a car came by me and i could not believe when i looked at the license plate that it was him driving his car so close to the site. but we cannot control him and agents cannot be controlled. you can give them all the advice
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and counsel. of thatworst part particular evening, he had a girl in the front seat and i thought is he going to take her to the site. she was blonde and she had a ponytail. i always wonder why he took her so close to the site so we did this regularly. we used other sites as well, but we always did a swap like this. his production was magnificent. until april of 1977. that is when there were anomalies in his package. i went one night to put down his package and pick up a package from him and as i got to the site there had been a tremendous storm. and i down in the woods approached the site and there was a car parked over in the road. i had never seen that before.
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he walked past the pole and went down the hill a little bit. as i got down to a little dip in the past, a man came to my right , he had a big black raincoat. he had a military cap with a shower cap on the top of it and he had it take black -- he had a big black flashlight. i walked down the path and i kept walking until i got to a certain point and stepped off the path and i waited. i thought, maybe they were out looking for me. maybe they were out looking for him. when i return, i went back up on the other side of the road. the van was gone. nobody was in the park. and lookedhe street down in my package was still there on the ground. he had not been there. that was the end of april of 77.
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we were out of delivery dates then so we went to him on his broadcast and we said to him, if you can, park your car at a certain parking place on the fourth team -- 14th of july. if you can't do that than something is wrong with your car, make a mark on a child crossing sign. not parked4 he had his car. we were very concerned about him. on july 15 i'd drove by this site in it was it child crossing sign your school and there was a on the site indicating that he was ready to deliver a package to us. but he really made marks on science. and certainly not in bright red.
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site that past that morning i just continue driving. i went into the embassy and i said, the signal was up. he may or may not have made it because it was such a vibrant drawn. so perfectly we had a new chief at the station and he said we will go out and we will pick up this package. in the embassy. i am not allowed to talk about muck online --an online and read all about my day job. -- look online and read about my day job. i got the package for that night when i went to the day job. we got this out of the liquor store parking lot it was a piece
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and itrete or asphalt was a little thicker but you get the idea out of the sides of it. was where we put all of his materials inside the cavity. i put in myf gear purse and i took off to do my two and a half hour run as well as to park my car. i himin the metro and now hyper looking for surveillance really concerned about his safety, having missed the one day and then of course the stencil mark on the sign. i got to the site and i realized i was a little early. thesite itself was on moscow river. walked up theand
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river. 10 minutes later i turned around. as i came back i saw three men across the street that had white it is verys on and light outside in moscow because of summer and it is always light in the summer. these three men were walking on the other side of the street. they turned into a cemetery, which is a very famous cemetery with the cosmonauts and a lot of artists. it was not unusual for people to be out on the street at 9:00 at night. i proceeded onto the bridge. the 47 or so steps to the top of the bridge. there were pillars on top of the ridge. it to just three went right through the center of this one pillar. inside that pillar was a narrow
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window up to the right so i took it out of my purse, i extended my arm and i put it in this little window there. we had used it before so i knew he would know where the package was located. i walked out into the middle of the bridge. i realize nobody was around. i heard nothing on my radio so i walked back through the pillars and down the 47 steps. i was the fourth step from the bottom when the three men came across the street towards me. said, fan out, don't let her run. thought, i am going to get raped and mugged. i knew what the reason was. something had happened to him. i was not sure of that. in instances and high emotions, your reasoning is not always
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where it should be. arm andbbed me by my the guy in the middle web my purse. my purse had nothing in it except my car keys, my diplomatic card and my drivers license. women do this, when someone goes for their purse we do like this to protect our purse. sr 100 andinto the that is when he began to get peelmy blouse and tried to that velcro apart. they had no clue about velcro. it had not been invented in moscow. so it was quite a struggle. there is a picture here on the back of the book with all these hands inside my pulse. corner wasaround the van itan and out of the
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look like a circus van. all the people were getting out including men in suits and one man with a very big flash camera. they proceeded to take pictures this appeared instantly and they held it up beside my face to take a picture of it. doing, i am hollering, i am yelling because i keep thinking, if try gone is nearby, he will know something has happened. i was yelling that i was an american diplomat, they could not hold me, they had to call the embassy and finally the suit asks me to please keep my voice down because i was making a scene i guess. with that, they put me into the to thean and headed back center of the city, which is
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where the kgb had its headquarters at the time. stalinainly was where made to disappear people during the. that detail was not lost on me as we were driving to the center of the city. i had diplomatic immunity. they took me inside and they try to get me to sign papers. eventually they opened a package offront of me on a piece newspaper. for those of you who do not study russian, it means truth. this was sitting on top of the newspaper and they took the lid off and they started taking the things out of the package. pen.they got to the black the black pen in this package, this time was the camera.
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the chief interrogator, who was a very angry man, he said, do not touch it, put it over to the side. nobody touch it. that was my first indication that he thought this perhaps contained poison. so, they called a colleague of mine from the embassy. the officer came down. he was shocked to. he thought was a secretary of admin working for cia. he sat there with me with his leth open and finally they us go. i was arrested at 10:00 at night. they let us go at 2:00 a.m. people asked why they did not keep me, i had diplomatic immunity. it was called tit for tat. what ever the soviet or kgb did the fbif our officers, here in the u.s. would do to one of their kgb officers the next time they pick them up. i must admit.
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i was angry when they grabbed me i and the admit that silly thought that i had just kicked the guy in the shin. but a later video, which i made show, hadr television interviewed some kgb officers who had been there and he said they are in front of me and my kicked hist i had colleague and he had been hospitalized and hadn't had sex for six months. so, i returned to the embassy at 2:00 in the morning. all of my colleagues work work -- were there and we did a debrief. i did not go back to the apartment, i got on the plane and flew home.
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i did not realize at the time but there was a group of kgb officers at the airport in moscow who were there to witness my leaving because they felt such respect for me as an officer. they had been full by me for two years. i got back to washington. i met with the direct your on monday -- the director on monday. on tuesday i met with the him all thattell had happened. i went on to lead a normal career for 32 years. what happened to him? moscow anden back to had aownst to him, we had
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spy inside cia who was hired as a transcriber for the telephone taps in bogota, colombia. the transcriber was a czech national who had come to the u.s. in the late 1960's. he had gone to school, he had become naturalized and way tolly made his washington, d.c. were the cia hired him because he spoke so many of the difficult east european languages. transcribing the tapes and even chilly he realized we had something going in bogota, colombia. kgb members what had happened. himid not realize about until 1984. --was arrested in 77 and
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1977, and this man was arrested in 1984. that that is how they found out about him. they put cameras in his apartment and they watched him as he pulled the various spy gear out, as well as the camera and all. they broke into his apartment when they saw him getting the spy gear out. they stripped him down and he said i will make it easy for you. he said i will give you a justete written confession get me some paper and a pen, and they handled -- handed him a russian ball pouring -- ballpoint pen. one of the fellows handed him his pen. with his pen he started to write and then he put it up into his
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mouth and bit down and went unconscious. he died later that night in the hospital. that is the story. i wrote the book to honor both my husband john, who died so young and for the spy who died very young. he was born in 1939. put thend helped me book together. i was self published. and i told him the day i , my worst nightmare would be to be sitting in north carolina and have the doorbell ring, open the door and have it the the spies daughter, who we never met. well, that did not happen. i got an email from her three am hisgo and she said, i
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daughter and i would like to meet you. at first.ked worst nightmare has finally happened. had -- how will i ever explained to her their history. as we progressed in our email, ,nd i was convinced it was her we talked on the phone and she told me she was coming to washington at christmas with her family. so we flew from wilmington to meet them. tell you, our greatest shop was walking into this hotel and washington, d.c. and looking because she brought her daughter and son and her son was 17 and he would just like him. that she wasdoubt
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the true daughter. this story came developing and i know it will never come to an end. i want to tell you that our obligation to our foreign agents, no mather -- no matter if they're in the near knees, far east or latin america, cia is committed to our sources who provided information. you had suspicion, why did you go out and meet them? why did you go out and make this final delivery? because that is our commitment. it is about the money. yes, it is about power. i appreciate all of your and i would be granted
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a questions. i know i have probably run over a little bit in time, but it takes that want to tell the story. [applause] martha: i will repeat the .uestion if you want me to any questions? ,> in a dog eat dog world protecting national interest and upholding humanity? line?should we draw the martha: i understand.
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there has been a book written about the morality of spying. why do we ask people to put ther lives online -- on line. it is one of the oldest professions in the world. knowing secrets give these -- gives you power. i think that the control of our depends on that balance of power and knowing about each other. but i understand exactly what you are saying. to put theirone life on the line like we did with him, what is my moral duty to him? i just tell him that we will do everything to protect him and the system is built to do that.
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there is a free choice to say yes or no. i would say, most agents that work for cia do it out of belief in the better good. i believe our system represents that better good. [applause] thank you. [applause] good question. hi. , after youwondering left the cia, how did your work continue to affect your life after you left? cia wasmy life after kind of unique. i had already lived through having two children. being a cia officer is helpful when you are trying to figure out what your kids are doing behind your back. [laughter] martha: i did not tell them for a long time what i did so i had an advantage for a long time.
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what is interesting, i could not say i worked for the cia until i retired. and i did this weird thing wrote this book and put myself out there. by letting you know that i worked for cia, i also wanted to answer questions that you have, but in 16 years, and that is how long it has been, i have become more like joe. i read the newspapers, i listen, i read books and i try to form intelligent answers to people's questions. i agree, i probably have an inside track and a mentality of what goes on. i do not know whether that answered your question, but i would probably look for the story behind the story because that is what cia -- cia officers
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are always trying to do. thank you. >> trigon financial? financial? martha: he believes that he could change his system from within. it took a long time because it was 1977 he died and the 1989 we have the wall coming down. of thisre seeds throughout the region in eastern europe and the soviet union. the dissidents of wanting to change things. i think he had an ego that believe that he could change it from within by bringing his system down. paid well, although he never profited from it. i think he also enjoyed having a secret life.
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i think that is appealing. it is like having affairs, i guess. thank you for- >> talking with us tonight. i was reading this article about the cia and how it got disrupted in light of the cyber security concerns. do you think that role is more traditional? martha: i have to ask you, if someone is standing outside that door at they don't know what i said, do they? you have to have human spies in the room. if it is a broom in the kremlin or in the great palace in china, ottawa,iti, or even in you have to have a human source or have a plant do some kind of
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eavesdropping or listening device in the room to know what is being said. -- turnerd to say always said we would get it from satellite. -- you cannot get conversations in the room. or like in the cia room were the decisions would be made, when it was still the all boys club. there were always made at the urinal. that is where the pre-meetings took place. right, men? you really have to have human sources. we can get intelligence from human sources over the internet. people far smarter than i do this covertly. all of those kinds of things get
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the intelligence to us. in places that don't have consistent electricity for people cannot on a computer or cannot go to a computer cafe. do personalwe still meetings around the world. it is amazing. the best of both. the old world and the new world. at least they don't have to develop film. i want to give her a chance to sign some books. a couple copies of her book right over here. have other of you things to do this evening, but she will take questions while she signs the books for you. are acceptable to that idea, i want to thank you, i would like to thank our speaker for a terrific speech. [applause]
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martha: thank you very much. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit] >> interested in american history tv? visit you can visit our schedule, preview upcoming programs and watch college lectures, tv tours, archival films and much more. american history tv on c-span, where history unfold daily. c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television company. today, we continue to bring you unfiltered coverage of congress, the white house, the supreme and public policy events in washington, d.c. and around the country. c-span is brought to you by your cable or satellite provider. >>


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