tv Oral Histories Navajo Code Talker Keith Little Interview CSPAN March 30, 2019 2:06pm-3:11pm EDT
is no question it was the pinnacle of my career. for them, going back, it was transforming. for me, it was adventure, excitement, the thrill of doing it, but for them, as you will see in the archive footage, it was transforming. it is the closest thing to a true documentary that i have ever done. steve: george colburn, thank you for stopping by. we appreciate it. dr. colburn: thank you for having me. steve: and now, in his own words, keith little, part of the documentary produced by our guest, "navajo code talkers: words" on remembrancin their on tv.rican history on dr. colburn: tell us what it means to you.
keith: i came hear about 30 years ago. on this land. i got married to nelly, and at that time, her parents were living over here, but they are both gone now. the rest land that we had some livestock on, some sheep over here and some goats. that were also some cattle were running around here somewhere, and we had about 100 acres, i guess. i have never made it a point to measure it, but it is a fairly decent size land, about half a mile wide, and maybe a little over a mile long. here, this isarm pastor land, all of it, and we usually have a garden over here, but we did not plan it anymore. the drought has been so severe
, and it takes a lot of water to raise corn. so this is our land, and we raise livestock. all of our kids have been raised here. nelly's, my wife, brothers and sisters, they all have been raised here. they are real close with this land. i think they are all making their home here. us about your extended family here, because it is more than just you and nelly. keith: well, we have about five grown children there, and one of , downives down here
, and one of them is on flat back, and they are spread all over. originally, i came from the western end of the navajo nation , so my relatives, my brothers and my sisters, my aunts, of course my grandmother, all gone. just my aunt, a few of them are still going. the younger children, i do not even know all of them, because there are too many to remember, ok? dr. colburn: ok. land, you havehe a daughter. does the daughter have a grandchild? keith: yeah. my granddaughter, she had to
two children, my great grandkids, two of them. they are both in school. my daughter, the other one, lives with us and she has five kids. every one of them is doing something for themselves, them werend some of on a little bit of arts and crafts to support themselves. so it is that way. we are pretty well-established right here, and we do not really think about going somewhere and making our homes someplace else. if we do, we might have to move back into the city, where i was raised. talking to people
about the importance of the land, in particular, this beautiful country. i mean, it is something that is -- it seems to me to be more other parts of the people stayed there, children go off to school, they come back and farm. do you have any thoughts about the importance of the land and navajo culture just generally? doesn't mean that you and your culture are somewhat united? i believe that we were taught to respect the land, and the atmosphere, the sun, the is -- ierything that
believe -- more or less, we think of it as guardians, natural guardians for our existence. and land is the most important element for us. we stayr survival, and pretty close to the land, because it is pretty spiritual the land,respect because we really exist on what that land gives us, and that is our living that way, they taught us to respect the nature, what it gives you, you are living out of it, and you are grown, your children, your children grow up respecting our own tradition, our own custom, our religion, the spiritual thing that comes out of the
earth that we survive on. if you think back to the days after the war and landg back to reservation and that, was that something that you thought about during the war and wanted to get back here because of the special nature of this place? you are bornwhen that wasnd, as we do, the most important thing to us, because we make use of the land, we more kind of always have that in mind, the way we were raised, what we had done growing up. it just becomes a part of you. and the land, what it looks
like. when you are away from here, of timesseas, a lot you think about it, think about your people, think about the on, thet you played planting, the harvesting of the wonder just how, just what it is doing now. at this time of the year, they wonderain things, and i who is harvesting corn, or maybe they are having a ceremony or something, something special, and you just imagine while you are away from here, so coming war iso the land from quite a spiritual thing, plus you were taught to respect the
land, respect the nature. and this is where we were raised. i mean, this is where our people are merged, the way our story creates an gross. live within nature -- and grows. live within nature. dr. colburn: re-signed as that question is because when you were on the trip with us, and i think especially of okinawa, and ial area ofat the bur okinawa, completely devastated, all of that vegetation completely gone, and when you said the the man, you land had been for new
there, andenewed that meant something to the okinawa people. same thing with guam. guam had become so green there. and when he was there with the and totally devastated it. that is not the way it is supposed to be. the environment is supposed to be green and supportive, those of us who inhabit it. maybe you could just mentioned something about the trip, and when you saw those islands before, maybe you could tie the land, your land released in word of the trip itself. keith: well, i would say the land over there, as you already mentioned, it was dilapidated,
and that can make you sick. and going back to the land after 60 years, it is quite, uh, well, surprising, i guess. wayhe way it looks, the way compared to what it was when we were there. at that time also, i did not really realize that the natives ordealad gone through an that was on call for. and so going there and talking , they look ate the united states marine corps
and many of the navajo code talkers that have been there, they think of them as somebody verent, almost. of course they got their land back, and they have more freedom than they used to have. thaturse here we have freedom over time, from the day we were born to the day we came back, we still have freedom, so we want to hold on to that. so it means a whole lot to us to come back to this land, to our land, where we were raised. dr. colburn: well, i just want to ask you one last question about the sheep that we see off in the distance here and so on. raise it to sell, to butcher and use yourself for ceremony? tell us about your flock here. well, the sheet, the
ismals in particular, she the backbone of economics, of our economic survival. back from we came captivity, and maybe even before that. , walking afterd sheep every day, may be taking care of the horses, maybe taking care of the cattle, you kind of share with them into your heart, because that is the prime economic survival for our people. you pay for it. at that time, it paid for everything. everything that we do, the animals paid for it, so it is something that our prayers are tied to, and the almighty given
things that we have, that we enjoy. thisolburn: and so is flock that we are seeing here help feed the family? yes, it does. tton, andaised on mu when on the way to overseas, i always kind of wished someday, the craving for that smell of over hotou cook it coal, you just imagine that, and salivalow your and kind of get mad -- "why am i -- and you come back, and it is something you appreciate, because you were raised with it. dr. colburn: sam said that some of his sheep are used in traditional navajo ceremony,
and i just wondered if you use that as well, or if you could mention it. keith: well, that is just a custom. everybody uses that. if i want to, i will donate a head or two to the people that are having the ceremony. even a head of cattle sometimes. dr. colburn: just one question, more about you. were you brought up on a farm, and did you do sheep herding as a young man, like i know many of you did? keith: yes. i would say we had a farm, but we were kind of nomadic people. foroved, moved, moved, greener grass, better water, always for the animals to eat
something good, we moved around and also keep the land from being overgrazed. and we had a farm. harvest everything that we can, and when we would make use of our animals, we would eat almost everything, so it is really part of it. dr. colburn: so you grew up with those animals. keith: yes, walking after them, sleeping with them, sometimes, in the corral. [laughs] dr. colburn: what age where you when you went back to school? i think it was 37, was it? 36, 37? the sheep andft went away to school. keith: i went away to school when i was about 10 or 12, somewhere.
i left my home and went to camel, because my brother back one day, and he dressed really well, clean, white shirt, and i wanted to be like him, so i went to school. dr. colburn: and you left the sheep. keith: well, i worried about them, but somebody said you are better off learning, i guess they meant to be a businessman or something like that, and i did not know what it meant, but if you get a decent education, you would live better, something like that. dr. colburn: anything else? i am finished. about the land or the sheep or anything. i think thatuh, one of the things is we can appreciate the fact that we
still have our way of life, and that nobody has ever intruded on us, even though that is happening all the time. we still have everything that we have, not as many as we used to have, but it is an item that is very special in our lives. dr. colburn: i noticed on your seal, the great seal, the navajo nation on your jacket, there are sheep on that. keith: mm-hmm. is colburn: so, anyway, that staring at me right now. [laughs] me, cattle,s pri too, it takes its place, but for me, i was raised on sheep.
they say that we have some snow here, and it is a little bit after mid-october, and you see a lot of snow on the mountains, the country a little more livelier. and to a lot of people, it is early. you usually think about winter as december, january, and february, vote we do get snow sometimes in october, and it is normal. usually, uh, we welcome it. we usually do appreciate the snow, because snow is something that moistens the ground a lot, a lot more than the rain does. the rain, when it rains hard, the water jumps off. and snow stays on all winter
long, so we welcome best know. -- the snow. in order to welcome the snow, you are supposed to take earlier in the morning, make it, and wash yourself, and we were trained that way also. it is just part of the spiritual training that we inherited. >> you were watching interviews with former world war ii navajo code talker keith little, conducted between 2004 and 2006, for a documentary project "navajo code talkers: journey of remembrance." the interview took place at his home on a the navajo nation in arizona and on the battlefield. pleased to be here, and privileged.
and come back. this is not the place that i thought. i thought about 100 miles north of here. but in comparison, i have always talked about the places that i have fought with my comrades, time, the land, the communities, the homes were all shattered. and then somehow or another, there were some ladies that survived. i remember them. into are being herded and one and penned up, day i went over there and took a look, and i felt very sad, there were some kids in there with their parents, in the stockades. and i wondered how they fared
out. i always wondered about that. i wondered how those people fared out, when their land was destroyed some of their homes were destroyed, everything that they had was destroyed. maybe they had livestock. maybe they had farms. and their way of life was completely completely destroyed. and they have to rebuild themselves back up. and the development of their country -- it is quite amazing to me. memory,ings back the what it looked like at that time. maybe in comparison to the jo land,land -- nava our land back home was not developed and completely isolated from the outside world sit. -- world. so as a navajo code talker, i
wondered about these things, what this means to people here. way because weat came into the picture as navajo talkers, not knowing anything about this world out here. always sticks in my mind, and some of the things that i might see here, these places, i think will relieve a lot of my mental attitude about your deals that these people came through -- these ordeals that these people came through. -- happy, maybe a bit confused, but i do appreciate coming back. i think in a lot of ways that it
touches every generation from world war ii down to the present time in the future. what freedom is, what our land is, and how we love our people and our families, our culture, and all the things that we grew up with. and i think it should be very important to them as well as these people, here on guam, the people who experienced the ordeal that was not that necessary. beings, talk to each other and get along. you don't have to have wars. these people experienced some of the worst punishments of war, what war is. also, i think a lot of times, little kids don't seem like they
-- they don't know nothing. the great-grandchild, he took his little teddy bear, take it with you, grandpa. that can't go. you have this cargo, you carry grandma, sourse, she can't touch the land over here and take it back. power, ofling of that seeing, visiting where you , who would let him touch the soil there. take him back. that is the way i feel, i think, and i think that we do it for the young kids that come with us. they should carry these messages
back to their families, in schools and wherever they are. thank you. my personal impression of my visit back here since 1945, just sitting where we are in tinian , in 1944 --nd guam june, july, august of 1944. when i say 1945, i am also thinking of iwo jima, where we had our last battle. way, you think -- it is quite -- at that time, i was not too impressed with what i was doing.
was -- most ofi us were just ordinary marines. ordinary soldiers trying to do his job. what the command wanted us to do accomplished certain things, hour,ives each day, each much you here,ow you throw a bomb into a piece of land like to me and her saipan -- like tinian or saipan or even iwo jima, the ultimate footsoldier would cry on the ground with his rifle, with every equipment he has to carry, has to do the cleanup work, the dirty work of what goes on.
done, finished. is, to me, that was -- we did not know. i did not know the reason why i was doing it. all i wanted to do was shoot the people that started the war, because it had to be done. cause, really for us, for american people, and i never did really consider that they were people, they were suffering an , you know, is beyond imagination, i guess. they are not free, they have their own way that they have experienced, many years before,
but at the time now, when we were here, they didn't have that privilege, that freedom that we .njoy, or people back home talkers, -- the code nobody ever imagined that american, native americans in wasicular, the navajo tribe not even considered a citizen at the time. of our teachings, our religion, of our freedom, to do anything we want to do, we decided that what has to be done to protect our land and our accomplished.be it had to be done one way or another, and so it took us, the
navajo code talkers, compelled to use their language. and they devised it and schemed it in such a way that it played role ofa very unique confusing the enemy by using their only give -- own native code they developed themselves in combat. to come over -- to overcome what was an obstacle in always that was prevalent -- in all ways that was prevalent, breaking each other's codes so you know what your enemy is doing. and our code was so uniquely devised that they never did. it was never deciphered.
on thenative people here marshall islands and in saipan, -- today,d iwo jima they are properly thankful that we have done such a thing. and with the atomic bomb, to finish the job of killing other people, we had to do what had to thing, killing a more people, so that they might begin to understand. each other. game.ar is a real dirty so i am very glad that i made the trip. ofetimes i overcome a lot mental anguish and mental
-- why do people have to kill each other? , they wante people peace. they want to live their own style of life, and maybe we will get support from them in america to do that. thank you. [inaudible] and where the long line of departure is going to be. where on the beach we are going to land. and i had no idea what kind of sees we were going to get, because at one time -- what kind going to get,e because at one time we had to wade through water about knee-deep. .ecause of the reef
i was hoping that we would not hit something like that, but we did all right on saipan when we were landing. here, this was a question mark. mark,always a question because if you get stranded out there, you have to get out of the boat. your boat would be stuck if it stopped. so you had to get out to save the life, and get away from boat as fast as you can and get to the shore. and when you get to the shore, eck.,on't wr you go in as far as you can, even if you have no resistance at all. here it happened that way, likething went smoothly, you were being delivered to a motel or something, you know? we ran up the beach, and in here somewhere, we wrestled them
away.ere -- back there the sergeant in charge kept us going into we could find a little cover. if they were firing on us, we would have got it right there, coming in. because they had a good line of fire. i don't know. we just felt that we did not get any resistance for a good quarter of a mile in. we had a lot of room to play with. that is where we stayed, until the line got lined up straight, .nd the man takes over in theit has to move same way, with the unit on the
left and the unit on the right. and how far they want to move -- they control that. resistance ofo see how, you stop and we can take care of it. everybody stop. so we usually call for something, either the mortar people or the artillery people, or maybe even they might call --, if it is a safe distance away. there is immediate resistance a little ways from us, we take care of it right there. that is the way. i know we went in maybe a quarter of a mile, that is about a thousand yards or more, and we stayed there for a long time until the evening, late afternoon. everything synchronized together, i guess, and we moved
up another thousand yards if we could. but somebody did not reach their target. wewith night coming on, would make a line right there where we are, tough in -- tuck in for the night. the first night, it was nice. we got some of what they call -- some japanese coming through the line, but we got them. the guys up front, we were front they up stop those guys from coming in. and we never did get an organized attack of any kind. for several days, until we got to the airport. from there on, our objective, i guess, was to move that way.
i thought we were going north, but now i see we were going this their -- up of there i heard about a site where people were jumping off. i did not go down, but the infantry people went down. we were up there, so we stayed up there. several days, about a week or so, before we reached the eastern shore line. the thing that you are doing, you know you are in a heck of a situation and you could lose your life anytime. so you are on alert all the time. knowyou are out here, you
that you are going to go up to the fighting area and you know that wherever you are you are going to get it. you are going to get some kind shelling of some kind, or maybe a sniper is hanging in the tree. all kinds of -- you have that feeling that you must be safe where you are. if you are going to walk from , you are ready to die anytime. it is a thing you are constantly ande of, your own safety your buddies that are in there with you. so i guess awareness of what we are doing is a sign of faith,
because a lot of replacements , reserves came in. you have to take care of them and that is a dangerous job, when you have to take care of somebody else. you don't know what they are going to do. talker, wherever you are used, you go. so the defense line, a free tricky thing also. run low on supplies, somebody has to fill in also up there. so i had the opportunity to watch over and machine gunner that was new that came into the unit, and it just so happened that him and i were on the same
watch. i was to look after him, see that he is awake, that the rifle is over here on the left and the right, so you kind of crawl and see, tapped him on the shoulder and see if they are awake. you cannot sleep. you are giving substance to people you are working with. they are on watch, they are alert. i said don't you open fire during the night. [laughter] keith: if you open fire, you give our position away. do not shoot unless you have a clear target. and we have a way of getting the other guys alerted right away. they had to tell me that there is something out there. well, i guess the guy went to sleep. i don't know what he did, but
anyways, sometimes at 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning, he opens up. there was nothing wrong, nothing anything to shoot, but he was firing away. so i get up there and i beat him on the head and make him stop. ask him some questions, is there something out there? i hear the noise out there. well, we don't want to go over there. if something is coming, we will shoot, but nothing happened to the rest of the night. the next morning, when everything was light, me and some other guys went over there and took a look, and there were bunch of dead goats out there. [laughter] so you don't know -- they are green, they can jump at anything, you know? they are ready to shoot.
some of them are, you know? -- ismentality is that pretty solid. some of them are trigger-happy guys. you're watching interviews with former world war ii navajo code talker keith little, conducted between 2004 and 2000 2006 for ak -- documentary project -- "navajo code talkers: journey of remembrance." they still play at his house, and on the field where he walked with other navajo code talkers. dr. colburn: you are a major advocate of going back to the battlefield, so maybe you can tell us why, how you came to that decision to go back after 60 years? keith: i came to that conclusion
about our religion of not going warrior, not going back to where you fought with the enemy. turned -- death has always been on my mind, ever since i came back. you don't go back. the medicine men, the spiritual advisers are the ones that advise against it. it, how didt about that come about?, that piece of here, for me, not knowing about it, although i hear about it, you had to do something in a national emergency, as we had.
you had to do something. you feel like you have to do something. and there is -- what the japanese had proved was, to me, was a dirty trick. because that is the way we hear the news. we have no idea what the background of it was, the bombing of pearl harbor. so according to our understanding of our religion, native american people have always thought one another for supplies. here was a national emergency. it is not fought on our land.
we learned about glottal canal and guam,anal, saipan iwo jima. for whenal advice was our tribes raided one another. here, maybe it pertains to that. maybe it does not in the field -- feels away and across -- seas, away and across the but i always wondered what those countries look like. i have seen people over there going through ordeals, being marched at gunpoint and hungry, their land is devastated,
everything may have is gone -- everything they have is gone. here, we enjoy the elements of good things, and we also have been capped -- captivated by other people. people suffered that harsh or deal and my wife nelly says, you don't know how many children they lost in their kind of situation. a lot of people lost their lives, their loved ones, and another -- and an unimaginable ordeal that they suffered. and when you look at them, not knowing anything about it, it did not mean much to me at the time.
forough you have feelings those people that we have intruded on over there, in the islands. so going back, looking at the is ats, like oh, iwo jima enemyxample of the that wants to kill you, that wants to kill all americans. that yet -- but yet you don't see them. you see a lot of your friends, comradesies, your being wiped out. hardlso the fact that how you survive, how hard it is to
survive in a situation like that. and you see the land, how devastated it has become. and you leave it that way and go home. thatat stays in your mind, picture of the situation that is all the way, something you wouldn't remember. spiritualhat your ceremonials will cure that, and i have had that. still, that picture, that still hangser there somewhere in my mind, until i whatback over there to see the country looks like, to see how the people are happy, they are at peace, they are enjoying their freedom.
they make their own decisions, they are going to school, the kids are happy. they have moms and dads, you know? just a situation where everybody is living in harmony with each other. you don't think about somebody coming around, invading you or distorting all of your living. so this is my thought about whether to go back, it's always a stumbling block. initiation of that religion from the holy people, that you don't go back, that you don't go back to where you fought, here on this land. the other portion, which is bothersome to me, is overseas. but yet, the people over there are now pretty well satisfied
with what they have. dr. colburn: when you think about the pacific islands, now you have a recent memory that blocks out that old memory. keith: curious, curious. kind of a curious happy thought, and ending in goodwill. that is the way my feelings are. i don't know how john feels, but that is mine. that is my experience, and my understanding of it. these kids don't understand. none of these kids understand how harsh and brutal war can be. and so the people that have are somebodyhere who have sacrificed their lives in order to protect what we have
here, the freedom. i was aurn: so if senator, you investigated the it did notound out apply to this particular case and you were able to go and make this trip back to the battlefield, despite this long-held belief that you did not revisit the battlefield, what i be correct in that summary? -- would i be correct in that summary? keith: you might be, but part of the push behind my thoughts about that, being an official at the organization, where you kind of are forced into a situation and you don't want to, but yet you wanted to. you want to go look or cosi. -- or go see. there are two sides to that. dr. colburn: did your wife's viewpoint help you in making that decision, or is she -- was
she and influence? -- an influence? keith: sometimes we talk about it, discuss it a bit, but i make it a point to not really discuss it, even with my kids. --ause my religion for bids bringingforbids something that is unneeded into the family. after the war, you came back and you were under orders from the marines not to talk about it. to not talk about the specifics of your war activities. war and, you were at your people did not really want to know the details about it, so you could only share your thoughts with yourselves. was it something that was
constantly on your minds, those really horrible thoughts about the war? did they tend to dominate your life? keith: it does in a certain way, you know? you learn what youyou learn what you are required to do when you are young. ordeal -- whens your country and your people are under what do you call it? unsafe, notns, healthy -- being a man, you have , a duty to go do something about what the other nation is doing to you, so you in a situation where
you are not or are you going to. if you think a lot of your people, people say, love of country, and then you have to do it. balance that is kind of scaled to try to do away with bad veins. >> when you think about the office andhe post your people, world war ii, what is it that comes to mind? ,hat is the strongest feeling what is it that you really would like them to take away with
them and carry with them about your experience? uh, that is a tricky question. well. country.ere in this i do not know, i cannot even estimate. but it has been longer than long time, i guess, and we came into defendwe were taught to your people in every way you can. activitiess doing among the native people and -- in the united states, it is a duty to do that. now, it's a must. it is almost a must, but these nothingey do not know about war.
rut, if they respect thei ancestors as they will as time ,oes on, what they have done what the navajo code talkers specifically have done, they say it is unique, they say it is incredible using the now -- the navajo language. the navajo did not, was the development of the code. it is these 30 men, or 29 men that were recruited especially for that purpose and trained. camp, theyome out of did not go right into basic training. dave put them to work developing the code. placerstand it is that that was a guarded place.
so it is a secret that nobody has ever done, so it is incredibly unique to how these people, with that code. -- people come up with that code. i sure would like to listen to it. sometimes john's memory is kind of poor, but the few times i've talked to him, i did not press him for, how did you name, or how come you come out with the term hummingbird? how come you came up with the term like big whack? plant system, the resources -- all of the natural resources and the human resources of our navajo country.
so, they must have been pretty brilliant men amongst some of those. because not everybody memorizes things the way we were forced to do. if he did not have it, you walked out -- lost out. think the legacy of the navajo code talkers is something that should not be forgotten. , i do notsaying now believe it should be forgotten. it should be observed annually and make it national. in the united states. now, weback over it have been mistreated all the
days, ever since the white man came over. right now, we have done something that is beyond expectation. we are still being mistreated by, not really known how our own people, the 29 men come up with this code. and i do not know it either, because if i was there, i would know. but i was not there. john has a lot of work to do. what did they do? how did they come up with these terms? how much discussion did it involve? and a lot of things that they supposed to are not talk about and you are not supposed to use these words this way. maybe that came into the picture
and they were reluctant to use thebut it is to confuse enemy, whoever the enemy is. trying to do is something to you unexpectedly, and that is exactly what these people did. the young kids have a big challenge ahead of them to remember the navajo code talkers like abraham lincoln or george washington are martin luther king or whatever. navajoscode that the developed which has never been broken by any expertise anywhere. and has not been done yet. to our owns up people, the young people to carry the legacy down the road
for generations to . -- to come. and learn their traditions, traditions, customary practices, learn the resources -- navajoow nation simply because all of that was involved in developing this code. and with that, they enhance their own patriotism. their own way of sacrificing yourself. you have to be like that in order to be what you are. everything you have, even if it means sacrificing yourself to keep your freedom. the six part series on the navajo code talkers continues next week when we hear from jesse smith.
mr. smith was assigned to the fourth marine division. anderved in pacific islands transported messages. the program airs next saturday at 2:00 p.m. eastern on american history tv. you can watch this program again by visiting our website, c-span.org/history. the c-span bus is stopping at the schools of our studentcam winners. recently, columbia, south carolina to award the second students at the richland northeast high school. >> when we solve the topic, we immediately thought about the constitution and of course, the first thing that came to mind was the bill of rights, especially freedom of speech because something that is so ingrained in the american identity and a topic that has been at the forefront, especially the past few years in terms of the press and in terms
of our increasingly divided political climate. so how could we not approach the subject and apply it. onsee the top 21 entries c-span in april. and you can watch every winning studentcam documentary online at studentcam.org. tv was just three giant 1979, a and then in small network with an unusual name rolled out a big idea. let viewers decide what was important to them. the doors for washington policymaking for all to see, bringing unfiltered, with the true people power. in the 40 years since, landscape has changed. broadcasting has given way to narrowcasting. is morean big idea
relevant today than ever. no government money support c-span, it is not a part of the washington coverage and is a public service by your cable or satellite provider. it is your unfiltered view of government so you can make up your own mind. presidency, james baker remembers his longtime friend, george h.w. bush. he talks about their friendship and the notable events of the first bush administration including the end of the cold war and the gulf war. he looks back to the campaign that ended with george bush as ronald reagan's vice president choice. mr. baker served as president bush's secretary of state and white house chief of staff. former president george w. bush introduces the program which was hosted by his presidential center in dallas. this is almost 40 minutes. >> ladie