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tv   1919 Black Sox World Series Fix  CSPAN  November 11, 2019 6:50pm-8:01pm EST

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connect with their families, families of course wanted to have their loved ones doing so it was a very important mission for us to be able to have that connection. next historian david describes the 1990s world series by members of the chicago white socks that became known as the plaque sock scandal, he talks about how outspoken robert trail shaped public perceptions about what happened, he's the author of two books on the subject, rusting a lifetimes and murder of the criminal genius who fix the 1990 world
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series and judge and jury about baseball's first commissioner. i'd like to welcome you all, i am the director here we are very fortunate tonight to have an esteemed historian and writer who is not only an historian. he is very into baseball. that is a good combination. it is the 100 anniversary of one of the most infamous scandals >> in baseball history. the black sox scandal. numbers of the chicago white sox were accused up during world series to the cincinnati reds. it brought about many changes in baseball. it included getting eight players on the white sox banned for life. the story of that one is not a simple one. the entitlement of tonight's talk
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is called the field of myths. 100 years after this scandal separated this from reality, this should be a fascinating talk. i am excited to welcome david pictures of david. >> david: thank you. we are gathered (applause) (applause) here tonight on the eve of this year's world series and 100 years ago, who knows if they would be another world series after that scandal was exposed and whether trust in baseball was starting to evaporate very rapidly. as david said, that is eight men out. that is the story we know. that was the title of a book, a movie. the legends have spawned
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about that. it was not the start of trouble in rivers city. gambling had been rife in baseball since the beginning of the sport. think of all of the gambling in america. the riverboat gamblers and card sharks at west. people like that. it has always been there. in baseball, in troy, new york, there were gambling scandals, rumors of fixes in louisville in 1877. four players were banned for life. an umpire was thrown out. he is the only umpire that has ever been thrown out. there were rumors of world series fixes almost as much as the modern world series. that starts at the turn
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of the 20th century. in the year before the 1919 world series, there is a perspective scandal brewing for the cincinnati reds. there was a scandal with a first baseman named hal chase. matthews that he had the goods on chase. chase was really notorious but baseball did not do anything about it. that was the story up until about 1919 and 1920 when the rumors would occur. baseball would turn a blind eye to everything so that when the black sox conspired to throw that 1919. people wonder why they would do that. it was a high payoff and it seemed to be
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a low risk because your employers were not about to bounce you or do anything about it because it was very bad publicity for the business of baseball. who were the eight players who were banned? the first one is a guy named chick scandal. he is a good fielding first baseman but he is sort of in the middle of the pack of american league or majorly first baseman. i never come with a slide presentation to these talks. i really wish i had a slide to show you of him. he looks like a complete criminal. this is one bad looking dude. fittingly enough,
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maybe you can tell a book by its cover. he was the basic ringleader of the whole fix. then you had a utility infielder who seemed to be a friend of his, a guy named fred mcmullen, he only gets two at-bats. he once wants in and will be let in. a shortstop described as a hard guy, a tough guy, the guy you did not want across on the team, he is a decent fielder. not that much of a hitter. at third base is one of the more problematic members of this octet in terms of guilt and culpability. his name is buck weaver. he is one of the top two third basemen in the league. we will talk more about him later on. in
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centerfield, a really good fielder. a guy named oscar happy spouse. happy felsch. this is the end of the lively ball era. it is not quite there in 1919. that you have pictures. you need pictures involved in throwing a world series. the gamblers have the two best pitchers on the chicago white sox. eddie seacox is a shine ball pitcher. he might rub something on his
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pants to make the thing scoot this way or that way. he is a 29 game-winner. the other picture is a 23 game-winner. his name is claude "lefty" williams. he comes from a town in southern missouri that only has two or 3000 people. the mob barker gang came from this same small town. also a guy who shot up a synagogue in oakland park oberlin park. it is going to be a best of nine-game world series. it is different in a lot of ways. why is that? baseball had previously been a best-of-seven series. 1919 pose 1918, it follows world war i. world war i really disrupts
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baseball because they issued what was a work or fight order. that means that if you are not involved in the war effort, they are going to draft you. they will do selective service and paul your name out of a fishbowl or something and send you over to france. baseball does not know if it is going to continue in 1919 until the armistice comes around in november of 1918. in 1918, the season is cut down to a 142 game series season. up until 1961, it was 156 games. there are fewer games, fewer attendance, much less revenue that your. there is a way you can get around that. that
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involves going to work in a defense plant and a defense related industry. one of the biggest industries is shipyards. we have to get all those guys over to france. we need boats to put them on. there is a big shipyard in delaware. shoeless joe jackson and lefty williams and a reserve catcher for the white sox go over and work there. oscar, happy, felsh oscar "happy": felsch goes to work in milwaukee. a big core of the white sox are jumping. they are jumping the team to go get these jobs in the defense plans for the shipyards. they are highly paid. as draftdodgers. as unpatriotic. they are
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drawing a good salary. they stay out of the war and play baseball for these shipyards on the weekends. comiskey does not even want to let these guys back in and he is also opposed to this nine-game series, world series. he is portrayed as a great money grubber. a money grabber. and we welcome deal more with that and we will deal with that more later on. why is he opposed to the nine-game series? is he a traditionalist? maybe. remember what i said about eddie ceacott and eddie cicotte and another. this is a longer series. they are planning no off days because cincinnati and chicago are so
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close. they are not that close really but they will have no off days so you needed a deeper pitching staff. really, the white sox that year were really stuck behind cicotte and williams and after that, there was a rookie who won 13 games and then read favor who is a red favor who is a hall of famer but he is sick. he is so sick he will not pitch even one game in the world series. the white sox basically have a 2. 5 man rotation going into the world series. they have a problem. cicotte and williams won 59% of all white sox games that year and if you take out favor, they won 71%. if the gamblers get to these guys,
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things look really good for a fix. pitching is really the achilles'heel. it is so big, it is really the achilles foot for the white sox that year. the white sox are going to lose the series. ar planning to lose in a games. two they are planning to lose in eight games. two of the most suspicious players include lefty williams. he has a 6.61 e.r.a. and that series when the american league average that your was 3.12. and bristolwristburg at shortstop
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comes under suspicion. the third man of that staff in the series is a rookie he is a really small guy, 5'7". even with the white sox or black socks planning to lose behind him, he will win the third game and six-game sixth game of that series. eddie cicotte will lose a couple of games and then bang, they are out. what are the myths? you have seen them in the movie, "eight men out." made by director john sayles. an all-star cast made in the late 1980's. and at the same time, in a more romanticized
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kind of haphazard way and the more popular movie, "field of dreams" with kevin costner. shoeless joe jackson and other players will return and get to play baseball again despite the ban against them in the cornfield in iowa. the genesis of those movies is the 1963 book by an author named elliott as anzinough. the gist of this is why the white sox do this. this is a great myth we are dealing with. the myth is this it is charles comiskey's fault. these guys were exploited, working man. they were not being paid very well. they were among the lowest paid teams in the american league even though
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they were the pennant winner that year. comiskey was cheating them on bonuses, specifically eddie cicotte. he was so bad he was not even cleaning their uniforms. they were not called black socks originally because they were crooked but because comiskey would not even clean their uniforms. he was an all round bad guy and the black sox were just writing a wrong and sticking it to the man. and they found justice with direct action. the problem with the theory is that it is all wrong. i did two books which dealt with this scandal. one was a biography of the commissioner that came in and fixed this mess and the other was a biography of the gambler, arnold rothstein who basically
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created this mess by bankrolling the fix. since the arnold rothstein book has come out, we have had a massive data dump by major league baseball and also just the fact that technology has changed. i was talking to some of the folks beforehand and talking about how research has changed since i started in this game and now you can get to the microfilm, you can look stuff up easily and do not have to rely on a relative's book. you can find this stuff. the real key thing to dispelling the myth of charles comiskey as this grew of baseball, the fella that should bear as much blame as any of the black socks is this
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in 2002, major league baseball was cleaning out its addict. the teams would have to send to the league office is what they were paying each guy. if they got someone up from the minors, how much are you paying him? how much i you paying a guy if he came over from the st. louis browns? did you pay him a bonus? all of this was in the league office files and major league baseball dumped it across the street in cooperstown at the hall of fame and the national baseball library. they did not have the stuff. they keep it and treasure it and preserve it for baseball researchers. primarily for members of the society for american baseball research. and these guys really went to work and they went card by card and they figured out what the black sox were making and you have to have context. they were making something. the numbers of what any of them were paid in 1919 are pretty pathetic compared to what they are being paid now because the
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dollar is pretty pathetic now. but what were the black sox playing being paid then? consider this the white sox finished sixth in 1918. it was the war. they lost guys. they went from world champions in 1917 to sixth place in 1980 in 1918 and yet, they had the third-highest payroll in the national league and at the end of that season, they would be the most the highest-paid team in the american league. they are not underpaid at all. another aspect of this that you may read or have heard is they
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were much better than the cincinnati reds. and the reds were paid more than they were. no. they were the sixth highest-paid team in the national league and the ace in the and the eighth. eddie collins the second baseman who was getting $15,000 which was the second-highest salary in baseball. tot kite top type top three members of the black sox, cicotte, jackson and we were were among the top 15 players and the next year, of the 17 highest-paid american lakers, seven were members of the black sox. comiskey was not underpaying his players. what was comiskey getting paid? well, that is easy for you to say,
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mr. comiskey, that these guys are paid well. because of the war in 1918, the previous two years comiskey had been drawing $10,000 a year and he owned the team and he took a cut to $5,000 a year. and the revenues really went down that year. white sox attendance went down by 70% in 1918 and the team lost $46,000. consider all of those things and things start to fall away of these myths of why the white sox did it. the bonuses. one of the stories which i did not mention earlier is that the players were promised a bonus and all they got you see this in the movie "eight men out" and all they get is a case of champagne.
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they open it up and it is like it is flat, stale and they are incensed about this. they could not have been promised a bonus as a team. ok? we know they were promised champagne and they got champagne. how bad it was, who knows. but they put forward a rule that you could not promise a bonus to team members if they wondering the world series. the reason for this is because some losing teams ended up getting a higher bonus then the winning teams in the world series. this was done one of the owners who did this and caused the losing team to have more than the winning team, this would have been in 1906 was the cheapskate, charles
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comiskey. he had paid out a bonus to the losing members of the team and that was what caused that. you could not promise a bonus overall to the team. and then, there is a bonus to eddie cicotte. there is a big scene in the movie where cicotte goes in and says i was promised a bonus of $10, 000, mr. comiskey if i won 30 games. and i was held back. you would not let the manager pitch made to win that 30th game. and comiskey goes to his secretary, the general manager and says could you look up in the records how many games mr. cicotte won. 29. 29 is not 30, eddie. so cynical. except it is absolutely not true again. bonuses were not promised that way. they would not be promised a $10,000 bonus when his base salary was $5,000. it would be
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in increments and maybe you would get so much more if you got or won 20 games or 25 games. this is what happened with lefty williams that year. he got to 15 games and then 20 games and he got extra bonuses for that. but really why it is not true is because eddie cicotte did get the chance to win 30 games and he lost the game. he was not held out. he went home voluntarily to his farm in michigan in the middle of august and was called back by the white sox and given a chance to win and he did not win. every aspect of this is absolutely false. and also, why would you promise a bonus to someone who would win 30 games that year. 30 games were pretty
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rare even back then. i think walter johnson did it in 1913 but it was really rare even that. and also, eddie cicott has led the american leaguee in losses that year. none of this makes any sense but cicotte did get a bonus. even without the performance bonus of 30 games, he did get a bonus because he was promised in 1918 that if he had the same kind of year that he did in 1917 when he won games but comiskey because he was so good in 1919 gave him the bonus he was going to get in 1918. he is the second-highest paid pitcher next to the great walter johnson. again, myths, and,
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myth. also, if cicotte did this and he was in on the effects, and he was a ringleader because he was stiffed on the bonus which would have occurred late, late, late in the season, why do we know by his own confession that he was working on the fix in early september? and widely know from buck weaver's conversation with a detective hired by charles comiskey that cicotte was talking about the fix in june? fact, fact, fact. how great were the white sox? we hear over and over again that they were one of the greatest teams in baseball history. well, they
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were pretty good. they had wondering the world series in 1917 and they wondering dependent in 1919 but they went it by 3. 5 games. even in a 140 game season, that is not all that impressive. kind of middling. they were supposed to roll over the cincinnati reds. the reds win their pennant by nine games. i'm games. and they had the highest one loss percentage in a spa in baseball. their second-half season is amazing with a one loss percentage of 7. 12 and the second half. they are on fire going into the world series and they are deep. where the white sox were shallow in a pitching staff, the reds are so
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strong they can start five different guys in the first five games of that 1919 world series. there is another myth which is maybe not as important but in terms of how difficult was it to garner information, to construct histories of the black sox, elliott writes that there is a wall of silence involving not only the black sox but also the clean sox, and even those that played against them. or was a cone of silence that fell around the world series fix. that is not true because we know you can search all of the microfilm and find out things more easily that 20 different reds and white sox players gave interviews afterwards. some of these are
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not very true. they are contradictory. people were willing to talk. they will not, they were not many of them, however, were not willing to speak to the fellow whose history of the black sox is the standard history. elliott. i met him later in life. we were watching a series on espn which is premiering and he seemed like a very nice fella. suffering from lyme's disease then. when i first read "eight men out" when i would've been in high school, it was terrific and it is a brilliant narrative. such a wonderfully written book. and you just have the feeling that ok, he has got it all. every detail is in here. it would be very hard for
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me to improve on it. and i was writing my rothstein book, that was the idea i had at the beginning. and then i tried to figure out the narrative and it just did not make any sense, whatsoever. if you took a look at the chronology of things and how things were supposed to happen, it just sort of fell apart. and i wrote that to rothstein, respectfully. it does not make sense and this is how the narrative really went down with arnold rothstein. other people have pointed out, and i should have picked up on this, but i first read the book when i was in high school. it is like i am not exactly mr. experienced author at that point. but, like, there are like there are interior thoughts expressed. someone is always thinking that or this. good historians do not put that down. novelists put that down.
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elliott was a novelist and a screenwriter. he is creating this narrative going forward, forward, and forward and providing all of these details you should pick up on. how could he have known this? for details. how could he have known this level of detail? "he smiled as he saw the 40 fresh $100 bills that sullivan withdrew from his coat pocket." how would he have this information? this is why this book has been described as a historical novel. a historical novel. and there are further imaginary characters in it.
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there are made-up people in the book. one of which is a guy named harry, a gambler who was posed to have threatened larry williams before the series. how do we know he is imaginary? because elliott told us this. he said i did this on the advice of my publisher to protect by copyright in case someone plagiarizes me. you cannot copyright an individual. you cannot copyright a fact. this does not make any sense. he has this character and other people think a couple of other minor characters in here are completely fictitious as well. and in fact, elliott admitted there was at least one other fictitious character in this. now, he consulted a couple of other authors, quite famous people, to get an idea of what went down with the white sox.
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two guys who had grown up in chicago and whose heroes had been black sox players. nelson, if you have ever seen the movie "the man with the golden arm" his hero was swede. and the author of studs lawn again his hero was buck. they were both left-wing authors. they had a working man ideology. and elliott himself basically had the same ideology and was blacklisted. he was black list it in the 1950's. he had fronted for blacklisted authors. he comes at the topic with this sort of bias which is
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not bad if you get the facts right. and i think you got my you have understood by now that the facts were not right. and they were not right because, in some ways because he did not have the material, that then he embellished the material and fit it into this one buried it. one of the most perplexing things that i don't think anyone will ever know is how did the fix start? there is an increasing body of thought that it started with the players. that it started with ga ndal and cicotte. we know the eight players involved on the black sox. we are pretty sure of that. but the gamblers are all over the place. and there are about four or five different groups of them in various places. there is a guy named sports sullivan in boston. a
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big gambler. a big guy. he had been involved in betting in the 1914 world series. he was handling the bets for cohan who won a bundle on the miracle braves. a real 1969 mets got team who swept the philadelphia a's. there is concern that that series was fixed and maybe that is why connie mack broke up that came afterwards. arnold rost income of the fella i wrote the biography of about, the brain, the go to guy, the loan shark, the labor racketeer, the casino owner, the bootlegger, the drug smuggler the guy in bald in new york including tammany hall politics and wall street bucket shops. and even loaning money to finance broadway shows and the
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uterus. everything. he was the big bankroll her. the name of a biography about him in 1959, it is very true. sports sullivan might be up to doing and fixing the world series but he does not have the money to make it all work. maybe you can make that work there are $80,000 $10,000 a man being dangled in front of the white sox. but, then what do you do? you have to lay down bets to make money on the world series. there is no use doing this as some intellectual exercise that we are going to fix this series and go with that. the point is to put down bets and make a bundle of money. you have to have two pots of money. rothstein can supply that.
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there are a bunch of gamblers from the midwest. there was a fellow named henry kidd becker who had been working on fixing the 1918 world series. he never quite pulled it off. he was thinking about doing the 1919 world series but unfortunately he was shot dead in april, 1918 by the husband of one of his girlfriends. but he left behind other gamblers in st. louis including a guy named carl, harry redman and franklin and other gamblers in des moines. this is interesting. the suppose it honest and upright midwest there are a lot of gambling centers. big gamblers. they will be involved in this. and then, a fourth group i don't know if you can call to people a group they are i don't
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know if you can call two people a group but sleepy bill barnes. he had no great energy which is why he was called sleepy bill. he would fall asleep on the bench. he had left baseball and he was speculating in oil in texas. he would come up and hang around with all of the ballplayers and try to sell them or get them to invest in oil. he is traveling this circuit of major-league cities and teams and he is on trains with the players and he hears a rumor. and in fact, the players approach him. they are so crooked even though they have $80,000 on the table right now promised from the gamblers, sullivan and rusting, they go to these guys and say we will throw it to you for $100,000.
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such a bargain. burnes does not have any kind of money like this. the other does not have the money that she is working in a locomotive plant in philadelphia. he goes back to philadelphia to raise the money and they tell him in philadelphia do you know who has the money? a guy in new york, arnold rothstein. go see him. they do. they try to see him at the racetrack and his office. rothstein is not a these, them, and those guys. he is very restraint. he invites them to discuss the fix. he knows they are coming to discuss the fix. in the middle of the restaurant at the biggest hotel in times square, he has invited these guys not to his office but to their to discuss the fix. and they do. rothstein has at his table a
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former new york city police detective and repeatedly a new york city judge. so he has witnesses to what will happen which is rothstein blowing up and saying i want no part of your fix. i want nothing to do with it. of course, he has another fix going on, that is why and he is creating an alibi. a very big alibi that he had nothing to do with any sort of fix which is of course, false. he soon comes to thank maybe i can make these guys work for me. yes. i will tell them that i will give them the money and they will tell the players and that will be on another $100,000 in the i do not even have to advance anymore. if something goes wrong, maybe these guys will take the rap. the rothstein uses a couple of agents of his, a former boxer. very famous
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guy. rachel brown, who was really named nat evans. a lot of people are going by aliases here. rothstein knows the value of keeping money around so you can invest it in other things, such as loansharking. if you don't pay the white sox players what you promised them right away, you are holding onto another 40,000 or $50, 000, you can use it to bet on them. or to just loan some money to some guy in times square. hang onto it. being a slow pay will
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eventually get him killed in very high-stakes poker game. his guys are not paying the white sox right away. they feel stiffed so they will start to play to win. everybody is doublecrossing everyone else. that is why eddie wins the one game he wins in the 19 world series. even though there were threats coming in. an account of one threat coming into williams. an interview, he says there were calls coming in from gamblers all the time threatening these guys to shape up. when you get eight players
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involved and then i have named 11 gamblers. you have a minimum of 19 guys and they cannot keep their mouth shut. some reasons, which are good reasons so you are a crooked player and your relative or your friend wants to bet money on your team and you go no, don't bet. bet on the other guys, ok? they cannot keep their mouths shut. rumors of the fix start in august in saratoga, rothstein tells a gambler from chicago the series is going to be fixed. he tells the former owner of the chicago cubs about it. eventually,
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kaminski is going to know about these rumors. he will get very agitated. the managers of the white sox will get very agitated. after the series is over, there is a series of articles coming out about the rumor fix. it is interesting, when they come out, the sporting news, the bible of baseball comes out and there is a famous passage by them which is incredibly anti-semitic about a bunch of hook nosed gamblers behind this and just because they do things, do not believe that anyone in our great american game would ever stoop to this. they certainly stooped to it. comiskey investigated and hired gamblers in the off-season. how much he
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covered this up, how much did he really knew? there is knowing and there is proving. he offered a $10,000 reward to anyone who could prove that the series was fixed. harry redman, one of the st. louis gamblers comes forward, i want $10,000 and this is what happened. we know that weaver was involved in the meetings to fix the series. well, this is hearsay, what do you do? he hires detectives at a cost of $20,000 to interview on the sly to get close to and gain the confidence of weaver and candle and mcmullen. each detective
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comes back and says, we think something happened but the guy who interviews weaver says, i do not think weaver was involved. the same thing happens with mcmullen. what basis does comiskey have to bring action? none. what is going on now with the black sox is there is a national commission in baseball, ruling baseball, and it is made up of three members. national league president, american league president. the white sox, the boston red sox and the new york yankees are against him and they want to dump him. he is investigating the white sox at
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the same time. he finds out. they track down bill burns in mexico and a grand jury convened in chicago to investigate a baseball scandal. what is the scandal? the scandal is that maybe a philadelphia philly, chicago cubs game is going to be fixed. what does this have to do with the white sox? nothing. the story appears to have been planted so the grand jury can investigate crookedness in baseball. the grand jury is being run by a judge, charles mcdonald, who is an ally of van johnson. johnson is plumping mcdonald to be the new commissioner of baseball. the real favorite everybody wants landis. he chased down the iww and the socialist party during the war. it helped save baseball. when there was a
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third league being formed in 1914-1915. johnson does not want landis because he is too strong of a guy. he will never be able to control landis. he wants mcdonald. hoping this grand jury will elevate mcdonald to be the star of the show. he is not the star of the show. he is never going to overshadow landis. what they do is immediately get into investigating the black sox, three of the players williams, weaver, and jackson. i hope bunch of people are indicted. the players and the gamblers. they are eventually acquitted. they are all acquitted. the acquittal is well, there is a
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scene in the movie abatement out where the movie eight men out where it is revealed that the grand jury confessions have been stolen. a misstatement. they were missing but they were immediately reconstruction constructed from stenographers notes so they did not impact the trial at all. what did impact the trial was the judge the presiding judge of the trial said you cannot use these confessions by these three guys, jackson, weaver, and c kok against the other players and you must also prove the intent. the intent that they were going to defraud people. how do you prove intent? how do you know what is going on in someone's mind? that kills the chances for a conviction. in two hours
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and 47 minutes, the jury comes back and they say acquitted. all the black sox players are acquitted and they think they are home scot-free. they are not scot-free. what landis does within hours is to issue a statement saying regardless of the verdict of juries, no player who has thrown a game or conspire to throw a game or has sat in on a meeting of crooked players and gamblers and has not so informed his ballclub will ever play baseball for organized baseball again. that
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takes care of a whole bunch of people. it is very eloquent and very lawyerly, regardless of the verdict of juries. everyone knew you were not supposed to fix the game but it was not illegal. there was no law against it. that came later on. you knew not to do that so you knew the guys should not be in the game anymore. also guys who sat in on a meaning, which would have been people like weaver or who did not inform their club. there will be a couple of scandals in the 1920's and what happens is they are broken up very quickly because the players, the honest players who know about these schemes who have been offered bribes, will immediately rat on their fellow teammates. nobody wants to be the next buck weaver. once that barrier of silence is broken, baseball
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comes a clean game. that is one of the things that you see in the new story about the black sox and baseball in general. it is a clean game. it is a clean game. it is not like boxing or horseracing. if landis had not done that, and if the game had not been cleaned up, it would have gone down the same route as boxing. you would not know which fight or fighter was on the lead over was on the level. all of this is tied up in so many amazing stories where, for example, notice that rothstein, where is he at the trial? they disappear. sullivan just disappears for a while. rothstein goes before the grand jury and complains about he is being assaulted by the reporters. they put out the story that he was assaulted.
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who was controlling the grand jury? it was judge mcdonald. who was controlling mcdonald? johnson. why would johnson want rothstein to be cleared? because of the power struggle for baseball. rothstein was partners in a casino in savannah with a guy named charles. he would have been one of the votes to help prop up johnson. that never happens because another doublecross doublecross doublecross. but we have with the black sox and what we have what we have with the black sox and baseball is the remarkable story of human frailty, of people thinking they can get away with
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something and finding out they cannot and finding out things will not be tolerated anymore. that is why baseball and because of a guy named babe ruth, why baseball survived that series and why we are looking forward to it starting tomorrow night. thank you. i will take some (applause) questions and i guess i will repeat them so c-span audience can hear them. any questions? yes? >> did other white sox players, did they know about it? >> weaver never took any money. the question is who got what amount of money and seacock got the most that we know of. he got $10,000. the others all got
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$5,000. weaver got nothing because he would not agree to it. but he sat in on two meetings. gandle says that weaver wanted the money up front. at one point, he was saying, you can take the money and you can doublecross the players and get the winning share of the series, which was about $5,000 as compared to $32,000. i would not trust gandle about anything. the other players don't know but they really suspect and the catcher gets really visibly upset, even on the field and in the clubhouse during the series. they know, but they cannot prove and it is a very what is true about the
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cinematic accounts of this. it is a factional ballclub. you have guys who really cannot stand the other guys. gandle says when he was talking about somebody letting somebody into the fix, he says, yeah, we did not love him but we did not hate him as much as the other guys. it was quite the crew. anything else? yes? >> the most famous of the white sox players was what was his culpability in this whole drama? >> this story is just so dammn complex. two things complicate jackson. he gets 375 he gets. 375 in the series. he gets the only home
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run of the series. he has no errors. he catches a man home at the plate, ok? but he takes the money. he takes $5,000. handed to him by lefty williams. and he is not at the meetings. he is the one guy who does not attend either there are two meetings, one of all the players to discuss the fix and later with the gamblers and he has that neither one. he is at neither one. i think one might say ok, here are some things he said to the press after he gave his confession. he said to the press afterwards,
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i said i got $5,000 and they promised me $20,000. all i got was the $5,000 that williams handed to me in a dirty envelope. i never got the other $15,000. i told that to judge mcdonald and he told me he did not care what i got. i do not think the judge likes me. i never got the $15,000 that was coming to me. hell of a statement. and then he said, and i'm going to give you a tip. a lot of these sporting writers that have been roasting me are talking about the third game of the series to be square. those gamblers doublecrossed us because we doublecrossed them. what he may have done consciously is this he may have decided to split
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hairs and say, i won't do anything to throw the series or be suspicious about my activities and he has that homerun, for example, when the sox are down 10-5 in the last game. when he gets the guy out at home, the throw was off-line. there is an incredible play to catch it and dive backward. that he lends his name to the fix. the gamblers might he says, they used my name. that maybe is his culpability. he is illiterate. there is a difference between uneducated and dumb. he runs several businesses afterwards and does not run them into the
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ground so he has some native smarts. the thing about there was a petition just recently from the people in south carolina where he is a hero, greenville, south carolina. there is a museum. they are and dumb. he runs several businesses afterwards and does not run them into the ground so he has some native smarts. the thing about there was a petition just recently from the people in south carolina where he is a hero, greenville, south carolina. there is a museum. they are there was just announced there was a movie about him. he continues to be a folk hero of sorts. it reminds me of the circumstances with
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pete rose. when there was more people would ask me when i was doing more baseball stuff, how do you feel about heroes going into the hall of fame? pete rose going into the hall of fame? i said, you know, i don't care that much for pete rose. i don't care that much for what he did. if you really wanted to stick it to pete rose, here is what you do. a few years back, there would be a debate about whether ralph connor belonged in the hall of fame or phil rizzuto or richie ashburn or somebody in there would be a lot of talk about it. and then they would get in and nobody ever mentioned them again. if you want to bury a guy publicly, put him in the hall of fame. make him the 180th best member of the hall of fame instead of the best guy or most famous guy not in the hall of fame. that would kind of do the same thing
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for shoeless joe. if he is in, the father or mother or parent has a little kid and is looking and so what did this guy do and what took him so long? is this the best baseball has to offer? he took the money and complained about not getting more. one of the things about honor and such, one of the reasons why landis may apply that standard to buck weaver is landis had a nephew in the military academy and the honor code is what is applied to
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weaver. yes? how did the sox begin rebuilding the team? >> money. money. they buy a lot of players and they do not turn out all that well. this is the arrow the era when you could buy players from the majors, pacifica particularly from the pacific coast league. comiskey, if comiskey is so involved in the cover-up, protect his investment in the team and that is why he does not ban these guys in 1919, what he does do in 1920 is this the grand jury has heard the confessions of the three players and fellowship spilled the beans he spilled the beans as well. a hammer goes down and comiskey suspense the black sox. it is seven because gandle had left
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comiskey, if comiskey is so involved in the cover-up, protect his investment in the team and that is why he does not ban these guys in 1919, what he does do in 1920 is this the grand jury has heard the confessions of the three players and fellowship spilled the beans he spilled the beans as well. a hammer goes down and comiskey suspense the black sox. it is seven because gandle had left to retire and go to california. with about three games left to go and the sox
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still in the pennant race, comiskey guts his team and gets rid of these guys and sinks their chance for a second consecutive pennant. the owner of the yankees who has just acquired this hotshot babe ruth says this is terrible what is happened to comiskey. i will loan you babe ruth for the rest of the season. the commissioner says, no, we don't do that. a lot of things which happened very interesting in the wake of that. yes? going once. going twice. i will tell you one story. why didn't abe et al. not appear at the trial? rothstein had an attorney who
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was incredibly inventive. and a great jury fixer as well. he would invent these incredible defenses where the best defense is a good offense. at one point, in the late 1920's when he is accused of affixing fixing a jury, he puts randolph hearst on trial and saying, the reason they printed these lies is because i know the truth and i have the birth certificates of the twin daughters that william randolph hearst fathered. it is a complete lie. it was completely made up. he makes up the story about rothstein being assaulted by reporters in chicago. rothstein becomes the
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victim. poor arnold bronstein. arnold rothstein. they sent him out of the country to montreal. they think it over and he brings atell back. he is walking through times square one day and a couple of detectives go up to him and arrest him and arraign him for his part in the black sox fix. and then they bring in a witness from chicago and he would have said he bet with me in the series was fixed and i was defrauded. he shows up in court and they say, the featherweight champion of the world, he was a famous guy. he
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says, no, it was a different guy that i bet with. this is complete perjury, a total lie. money was passed to him at grand central terminal when he got into town. he walks that way. this is how chicago justice and new york justice was handled. in when the trial concludes, one of the most suspicious things that happened, and this looks like it would have been invented by the people within hollywood but it is not. the celebrating players and their attorneys go to an italian restaurant in chicago and those guys have figured out
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where the restaurant was and it was owned by an associate of al capone and the gamblers and the players and the attorneys are in one room and there is a movable partition between another room and the jurors. the jurors are in the next room and the wall comes down and they have a wonderful party together. some of the grand jurors used to visit new york after that and they would be treated to wonderful things by arnold rothstein. that is the story of justice, 1919, and hopefully the 2019 series will end up a lot better. thank you. (applause)
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