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tv   Today in Washington  CSPAN  April 15, 2010 2:00am-6:00am EDT

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conduct themselves certain ways to organize themselves and make them mor@@@@ i think senator cordons point is a good point. we cannot be chasing these people but come up with ways to prevent fraud from occurring in the first place. it has to be a dual effort. >> and laughed, and i am not one to take any more of my colleagues time, we have a bill on organized retail crime which cost $30 billion per year. and it is computer-related, because it is sold on ebay and other places. i think there are some bad ideas about working to attract and marketers stop selling goods that they believe are stolen. i'm going to talk to you about
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that later. >> i think the point that you raise is a really good one. . thing for an individual to shoplifting to take something out of the store, but when you have a whole bunch of people doing that and then using the internet for means by which you face this material, you kind of will supply the possibilities for these people and you have what could be in the old days what could be in the old days seen as a truly national one with consequences for the economy, not the local economy that the national economy. >> we would love the department to help on this bill and get it done. >> thank you, senator klobuchar. senator whitehouse. >> thank you, chairman specter. first of all, welcome attorney general holder. i would like to begin by saying
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that i am very proud of and would like to associate myself with the remarks that senator feinstein made and to observe that the inland's of american justice which is something that is admired and revered around the world and its and national asset which we justify they take great pride for the bounce, not to the torch and the pitch fork, and i want to applaud your steadfast defense on the principal of american justice has attorney general. there's been discussion about health care as to what my colleagues know senator lemieux and i were working on a piece of bipartisan legislation to look at productive capabilities and health care fraud and we will
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end with senter cornyn klobuchar at the beginnings of a good strong piece of long controversial anti-crime bipartisan legislation and i hope that your office, attorney general, will work with us on reviewing that legislation. i think we have been making good progress. i wanted to go back to the question of military commissions. you and i worked in a different hearing you said that one of the values about the courts is the experiential base they provided that prosecutors go again can know what the answers are going to be do a whole array of questions the it therefore can model how the case is going to play out and can produce it more effectively. we've already noted that there have been hundreds of article 3 tour prosecution's versus three military tribunal constitutions and it is my understanding that of the three military tribunal
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persecutions' a number of them were actually plea agreement and therefore did not contribute to the experiential base of the military commissions; is that correct? >> i think that's correct. i am not sure what the number is but i think that there might have been too pleased i am not sure of that. >> that's my understanding as well. and that leads me to hear is a statement by jack goldsmith who was the head of the office of legal counsel during the bush administration and he said the legal and political risks of using the bet military commissions system the legal issues remain unresolved including the validity of the non-traditional criminal charges that will be central to the commission's success and the role of the geneva convention sorting out these and dozens of other issues rate by commissions will take years and might render them in a factual. such foundational uncertainty makes commissions a less than
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ideal forum for trying in this case khalid sheikh mohammed. so they seem to have good support from the bush administration in your view and it's one that i share from my time in the prosecution that that experiential base is very important. i would note that john bollinger who was a top legal adviser to the national security council and the state department under president george w. bush said publicly their rush to the military commissions is based on premises that are not true and kenneth winston we've had before the committee regularly with assistant attorney general for national security under the bush at the fenestration has said that the nine years of access to one-fifth in the favor of the ever can be counterproductive. i see the benefit having both of the systems available. that is the obama administration when they decided to retain the metric commission. now you made the decision to go
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with both article 3 courts and military tribunals as the circumstances justified. i wanted to ask you what role you think the legislature should have in that exercise of prosecutorial discretion. again, for years as attorney general united states attorney my view on this is that the legislature has no proper business in the exercise of prosecutorial discretion. it's one of those areas it's not in my interest now the senators say so but i believe on principle it is one of those serious that the constitution commands exclusively to one branch of government and that is yours, the executive branch. >> as i indicated in a letter i sent i think to this committee signed by me and the secretary of defense body gates that is the position that we took. this is we believe an inherently executive branch function to make the determinations as to
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which of those two forms should be used. we are in possession of the greatest amount of information. it is the way which the constitution i think has set up our system of government and the letter that we sent indicated that attempts by congress well-meaning as they might be to inject congress into that role is inappropriate. >> i agree with you on that and i want to associate myself with senator gramm's remarks. i think that his standard that we should be flexible, pragmatic and aggressive in making those decisions are good ones and i have confidence and of leaving that decision to issue and to the people that surround you and the national security establishment three on the question of interrogation and the use of miranda mornings it is my -- with an on this committee a couple of years and
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fined exposure to the problem with interrogation is if you're doing this effectively you have to begin in a tradition with a strategy and that street she's developed by trained professionals who are experts in this specific area and the information i have is a bad strategy can include and on numerous occasions actually has included a provision not miranda warnings to the subject of the interrogation of a part of the experts best practice of a tradition in that particular case. is that not true? >> that is right. one of the ways which we took to the fbi interrogators we talk about the need to establish the bond, a level of trust and a couple has talked about with me if i'm getting of these warnings indicates to that person you are going to be fair they've become more trusting and perhaps more
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desire and of sharing information that the giving of miranda warnings does not necessarily mean that the information flow stops. part of what we've seen this past year with regard to abdul -- abdumutallab, all of whom were given money and awareness, the information flow was substantial -- >> the miranda warning something that should be this to the professional mentor getters to part of that interrogation strategy case by case. >> one of the things people on the ground had to determine and the fleet when he tried to blow up a better plan they to make an instantaneous decision. how are we going to deal with this person and they decided initially they did not need to and should not give miranda warnings to him so under the public safety exception they
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could determine whether or not there were other people on the plane who need to be concerned about and other people not for plans needed to be concerned about and then afterwards they decided after consulting with people back here on washington that it was appropriate to try to give miranda mornings it ultimately proved successful in getting more information out of them to estimate my time is expired. i have a number of questions i will be asking questions for the record. they relate to the cybersecurity issue and i would like to ask if i may incorporation of the attorney general in ensuring rapid responses to those questions i am the question of a task force on the intelligence committee that is performing a report for the committee on cybersecurity and i promised my colleagues and i will have the report done by the end of june, and i would like to have your
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input soon and i know that questions for the record can sometimes take weeks, months, it can christoff into eternity and to mark these for quick response the would be great. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator whitehouse tebeau we will go to our to after i finish the first round. mr. attorney general, there will be another opportunity to test the constitutionality of the warrantless wiretaps process and a plea to the supreme court of the united states and from the decision made by the chief judge walker recently in the san francisco case holding that the warrantless wiretaps were unconstitutional saying that the requirements of the foreign
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intelligence surveillance act preclude the warrantless wiretaps that there had to be probable cause. there was an opportunity review by the supreme court of the united states and the case arising out of detroit were declared the warrant was lawyer talks on constitutional the sixth circuit side or there was no standing [inaudible] views as a way of avoiding the citing of questions and the supreme court in the united states did not observe. at this point after a lot of your speculation and a lot of discussion, we do not know
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whether the president's power in commander of chief under article article 2 justifies warrantless wiretapping or the provisions of foreign intelligence surveillance acts. what you press to have the case coming out of the san francisco federal court go to the green deacons pinker fer decisions? >> we have not decided what we are going to do at this point with the decision that was made by the judge the focus there had been not necessarily as much on the legality of the tfp as protection of sources and methods and a determination as to what we are going to do to the adverse ruling we got from the chief judge has not been made. we are considering our options. >> what do you think? >> i think i haven't made up my mind yet.
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we have to see the impact will be. this program i guess ended in 2007, 2006. mauney view is that to the extent that -- i can't get into too many operational things but the support of congress, the authorization of congress to conduct these kinds of programs is the way in which the knicks ti but it is at its strongest and we had the the armistead -- the firm is foundation. especially when one looks at the requirements. i think that we will have to consider what our options are and try to understand what the ramifications are.
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>> since you have not made a pair mine, they may get your mind, i would urge you to make a decision. congress cannot tell the supreme court held to decide a case. we cannot deal with the jurisdictional issue. i think one of the big areas has been the refusal to take it up. and make decisions. the victims of survivors of 9/11 where in tour. re suing with strong evidence going very high up into the government of saudi arabia and the congressional determination will immunity would not apply in
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that kind of a situation and the court by deciding not to decide is a very differential which the executive power. i think that when we are looking for new nominees went to the court we are looking to the chief justice)ñ)xk roughly the citizens case involving corporations that have political campaigns is illustrative of. i want to pick up one of the questions which senator whitehouse and i asked about the miranda warning some.
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the impact of not getting the miranda warning as is widely misunderstood. if there and the warnings are not given all that it means is that the statements made by the subject of interrogation can't be admitted into evidence against him in an article 3 court. but when you dealt with somebody like the christmas day donner you didn't really need admissions or confession the evidence was overwhelming and when we talk about the subtleties of interrogations i find it hard to accept that the assistance of establishing reports bond by the interrogator with the subject would be sufficiently enhanced to pour
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into giving the mayor mandel warnings as a disc richard for making statements that by the time you get through singing you have the right to remain silent anything you say -- there are five of them and you get this waivers. but that is a big discouraging factor. so it would be my hope that the warnings would not be given. the most important thing in dealing with a terrorist is to get information to prevent future not contacting the individual. if you had to make, in my view, if you have to make a truce between convicting and getting information which might preclude his subsequent terrorist attack with all of the information. but is what you're saying to the policy of the department to make a judgment on the specific case as to whether to give more in
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the warnings or not that you leave it up to the interrogator and his judgment is that this report will be established but to not to determine all cases are miranda mornings? ..
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they do not know exactly what is going on. they did not give miranda warnings and that initial interaction. i am looking for flexibility. gathering intelligence is important. it is good that you are not doing it automatically. it is on the middle could dip i think your economy and economists are right.
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ts. one is, senator graham asked you what was going to happen if somebody arrested bin laden, would they give miranda rights he did not give a clear answer but that person is not likely to be able to check with you at that moment. we need a policy, number one. number 2, according to the miranda rule, as soon as a person is taken into custody, they are supposed to be advised of their rights before questions are asked. via ei the i policy is in the manual and that is what they
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in fact, the first thing a lawyer would say is to not talk. he will have to make a plea bargain.
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>> why wouldn't you give miranda warnings? the minister going to try them in military conditions? there is no reason to mirandize and met up with them. one -- what did the agents know? there is a doctrine that says if the improperly obtained information can poison the entire process. and raise questions, the rule
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would be to expect these terrorists to be tried in taken into military custody. >> his been in military custody. you declared him ready to go to trial. that is the fact . be taken into military custody. you can try him as an option in civilian court. >> what i have been trying to say -- >> why would that not be the right way to start the case? every police officer and gsa official -- tsa officials not
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give miranda warnings. >> the sequoyah what happened with regard to the detroit bomber. the fbi agents gave miranda warnings. they had the presence of mind to understand that in that initial interactions he did not have to give the miranda warnings. >> i do not know if it goes to 50 minutes. it is not like saying, do you have a gun? the you have a bomb? after a while, that is an end.
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>> as a former judge, given my experience, i would think that the government has acted appropriately here. this status would be admissible. >> a defense lawyer would make the point, i am sure. >> i am sure. they would lose. >> this is really significant. let me say about how we got to this point. senator durbin is so eloquent. that is before a military commissions have been established. it found a properly backing.
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it took some time for it to all be written. they would be tried by military commission but do his case -- commission. his case is already proceeding. was it not? >> it had been proceeding in a halting fashion. the decision that the obama administration made was to halt those things so that the commission procedures could be amended. >> you had a commission. you concluded that those have
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been arrested that there would be a perception that they would be tried in civilian court and not by military commission. has that been changed? >> the perception that we use -- the protocols do given have that presumption in it. >> it is not exactly a clean slate. in that case, you have a presumption in favor of civilian trials. >> it is a presumption. there are a variety of other factors. not the least of which, at the end of the day, in which form can we be most effective? the test is, what have we actually done? military commissions are the best places for them to be tried.
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there were no military commissions in 2009. it was pursuant to an order issued in january 20. they were already referred to a military commission. convenient authorities seized new charges. it is our intention to use military commissions as well as article 3 courts. there is the whole notion of being flexible. >> i think it is fair to say you
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had made some individual determinations. some could be easily handled. it is pretty clear to me the make a firm decision to go the of their way. civilian courts are virtually all of these things. >> i hope that you will read you that. i hope the new york case will be another be evaluation of that policy. >> i think in terms of the decisions that i made back in october/november and individual cases as opposed to the number of defendants, that action have more cases. >> thank you. thank you. i think the exchange between the senators has been a pretty good fleshing out of the complexities
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of the situation we find ourselves impetus i want to try it i can to do senses' various to reassure people that the system need to be improved. if a military member ascended upon osama bin laden, no one is arguing that they are going to read him his rights. what they would do is capture him pursuant to military operations which is not require mirandize in the enemy. do they would turn him over to an intelligence organization right?
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they will be the target team. >> that is correct. they will go to the place. >> their primary purpose is intelligence gathering. they will be able to assess. >> that is correct. >> they will decide if and when to mirandize. that is fine with me. >> that is part of the process. i think that is your policy. they will get to assess the detainee in terms of what they know about the war. is that correct? >> yes. the high-value detainees are people who we think their primary value to us is intelligence to learn about targeting structure. >> it is lawful to interrogate someone. we are not torture in them.
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-- torturing them. i think that is pretty good. i do not want to micromanage. as long as we are viewing the suspects not is a normal criminal threat the part of a military threat, what additional write with a detainee has it any it they were transferred from guantanamo bay to illinois. would it create more right? >> that is a question that is not really been answered yet. it is one that we are not sure about. i would argue they are not of their rights.
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>> it a detainee is ordered released by the judge, what happens next? still have to release them in the united states? what do we do with them? >> there is no requirement. we decided not to appeal. they have typically been taken to a third country. >> what if you cannot find a third country? >> they do not have to be released into the united states.
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>> i cannot say that. it gives the possibility to a detainee that he can be relocated. that would not exist before the judge made that. >> would be helpful if congress spoke about a case like this? the judge makes a determination that it is constitutional. >> i totally agree. we are in a dilemma as a nation. i did worry about the international community. i want them to be more open.
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great britain has changed their criminal law to allow them to be held up for a year that a trial. is that correct? if you are an enemy combatant, the law of war takes over. nor do i once said a row. if you are going to be charged with a crime, and thinking need to have your day in court. if he joined the enemy force, i'm willing to give your day in court but it is not a crime. you should not have joined al qaeda. every member of al qaeda de you hold as an enemy combatant will appear before a federal judge.
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if they want their day in court, the judge has to agree with the government that the evidence is compelling the giving ongoing reviews. i think what you are doing makes sense. there is an annual review of this person's status.
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what i would like to do is this committee to work with you so what happens when habeas commission is given to the we commit anyone in the world in the eye and say no one in america military prison is held arbitrarily. they have independent review. it is appealable to the civilian system. is that correct? >> every military fighting is appealable. >> i believe that is correct. >> there is an article review of the military commission. of succumb if you go in, you have article 3 ownership. what i'm trying to establish is that there will be an independent check and balance their out every lane. when it comes to closing guantanamo bay, 59% of the
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american people now of ejected it. that is about a 20 point shift. i do think that this happen? >> i honestly think there has been a lot of misinformation. without casting aspersions, but think there has been a political is stationed with regard to national security issues that i do not think have served this nation necessarily well. kirk's i think there is some truth. adding a lot of people worry about not having a coherent policy. this is hard. the christmas day bomber probably highlighted the people. he is not a common criminal.
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we can assure the american people that as we go forward the we are going to live within our value system. we are going to have a legal system that will protect you and your family against people that will not include torture. it will be transparent. this is not in normal criminal operation. if we can do that, not only would usurp the moment well here in america, you would serve the future well. we need a good system that will protect us against what i think is an enduring threat. we will be fighting this long after you and i have set the political arena. i wish it were not so. hollis part with some of the rhetoric. thank you for your service.
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i admire what you are trying to do. >> it is incumbent upon people like myself. we could be more forthcoming in clear with the american people about what our intentions are. we can explain to them in ways the perhaps we have not done. there is a degree of assurance that they have. the factors are in wide that approval notion has dropped. >> congress could be a good partner. if they are working together, i think it would help. >> thank you. >> thank you for yielding for
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the second round. we will have to say couple of comments. on the pending nomination to the supreme court, i may be consulted on the subject. i am sure you will be. i have just a word it to. i believe you president ought not be concerned about a filibuster. the supreme court is an ideological battleground. the lines are drawn. chief justice roberts testified intensively he is going to try to draw -- intensively. he was going to try to draw a consensus. that has not happened.
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chief justice roberts was very forceful in saying that it would not jolt the system. that was one hell of a jolt. it is hard to figure a jolt harder than that one. the theory about finding a debt that will be a consensus is a bit of vote. there are specific comments about bringing justice. -- justice kennedy over to the fifth vote. i think it is highly unlikely. the president of sidon on the fiftcase, i define habeas corpus
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a constitutional rights. it is about as far fetched as an interpretation. it has been speculated. there has some real of the ship. they ought to petition for reconsideration. justice kennedy wrote the opinion.
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i think it dispensable thinking. -- it is a fanciful thinking. the ideological battleground would be this. the supreme court picks which would line up. let them pass on the word. >> i am sure your gun to have that opportunity yourself. i will pass along what he said. >> that includes the hearing.
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thank you very much. >> thank you. >> thank you for doing a very good job. >> thank you, sir. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010]
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>> this year's c-span studentcam competition asked middle and high school students citrate a 5 to 8 minute video. here is one of the third-place winners. >> persian and report decision means to me identifying with a set of beliefs about how we will govern ourselves. >> it is both a challenge and a strength. it is a challenge because people do not understand the strength of partisanship if you belong to
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a party, if they have platforms. that platform will lay of basically. it is a good start for the boat to know. do you believe in the platform by republicans or democrats? the need to know the candidates. more than likely, the candidates will be able to say why they support the platform. the challenge is making people understood that just because you take the party out of it, you do not help the boat too. -- voter. it is them a starting point to what to believe system is. >> today we are having a prescription for america rally. it is to demonstrate that there is widespread support among people in oklahoma to pass health care reform, including a robust public option.
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it is really important for us to rally today, because obviously, our state representatives have no interest. we are trying to generate work for the options. we hope it will influence our representatives in washington. >> health care for all. partisanship is a strength. in a democracy, we have two parties. the partisanship keeps the party that is not in power challenging the decisions of those that are in power. >> it is probably affected by
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where you live. oklahoma is a good state. i think new york and california would be considered very liberal. i believe regions affected. i think it is probably historical. >> it has become the megaphone for politics. as far as credibility is concerned, it is obvious that fox is just a publicity arm for the republican national committee. i believe the only remotely nonpartisan channel is fox. they are completely non- partisan. i think the rest of them are completely partisan. they are very much liberal. i think anybody the watches the news can see that produce -- see that. >> c-span is neutral.
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there is no political bias there. if they are televising a representative from south carolina, it shows a on c-span. they do not comment about it. it is just, there it is. >> i think the internet has aided in the division in america. you have groups on the right. you have them on the left. it is not conducive to get a dialogue going between the two sides. it is a partisan group.
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we have our own issues that we support. we are going to support those issues. because of the divisive nature, partisanship will get stronger. i think the parties will get stronger. i think there is also a possibility that if the republican party strays much further, you will see an emergence of the third party. the party will be a conservative party. i hope that does not happen. >> the concept of the two-party system is about how we ought to govern ourselves. our nation and not be what it is.
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>> to see all of the winning injuries, visit >> up next, and u.s. house passed a resolution about saturday's plane crash that killed dozens of polish dignitaries. them president obama and congressional leaders discuss financial industry regulations. timothy geithner discusses regulations at the daily white house briefing. on c-span3, robert miller testified about the operations and budgets. live coverage of the subcommittee begins at 10:00 a.m. eastern time.
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later, led coverage of the debate between britain's political party leaders. the elected to parliament on may 6. live coverage is courtesy of british broadcaster. >> this weekend, life from the book festival. efforts to alert the sec in the media but the ponzi scheme sunday, is the announced chrysler's for history. find the entire weekend schedule at the
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>> in the u.s. house today, members passed a resolution offering condolences to the people of poland. members of the cabinet and dignitaries. this is 40 minutes. >> it expresses sympathy to the people of poland. it killed the country's president, first lady, and 94 others. april 10, 2010. the speaker pro tempore: pursuant to the rule, the gentleman from massachusetts, mr. delahunt, and the gentlewoman from florida, ms. ros-lehtinen, each will control 20 minutes. the chair now recognizes the gentleman from massachusetts. mr. delahunt: madam speaker, i ask unanimous consent that all members may have five legislative days to revise and extend their remarks and include extraneous material on
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the resolution under consideration. the speaker pro tempore: without objection. mr. delahunt: madam speaker, i rise in strong support of this resolution, which expresses sympathy for the people of poland following the tragic plane crash last weekend that killed their president and so many others. and i yield myself as much time as i may consume. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized. mr. delahunt: i wish to thank my colleagues and friends, representatives dahlkemper, kanjorski and lipinski for quickly preparing a text that enables this house to add its voice to the condolences being expressed around the world on this sad occasion. last saturday we woke to the terrible news of a plane crash in western russia. this accident took the lives of polish president lech kaczynski, his wife, the deputy
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foreign minister, the deputy minister, the chiefs of the army and navy, the president of the national bank, dozens of members of parliament, as well as civilian and military staff. today the house mourns the death of president kaczynski and his colleagues. we express our deepest sympathies to the people of poland as well as to the families who have suffered such a grievess loss. we know the americans' hearts are heavy. we plan to stand by the polish government as it seeks to reconstitute itself and reaffirm our enduring friendship for poland. madam speaker, what makes this accident even more tragic is that it occurred as president kaczynski's delegation was
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traveling to commemorate one of the most brutal events of world war ii, the execution of more than 20,000 polish officers, prisoners and intellectuals by the soviet secret police in 1939. earlier in the week, there were encouraging signs that poland and russia were beginning to heal the deep wounds caused by these horrific wartime events. russian prime minister putin joined the polish prime minister at a ceremony recognizing the 70th anniversary of this massacre, the first time a russian leader has ever participated in this memorial. the russian people have been very supportive and responsive in the wake of the disaster with prime minister putin
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personally heading the inquiry into the crash. the chairman of the international relations committee of the russian state described the death of the polish president as a great polish president as a great tragedy both countries were morning to get there again -- mourning together. anything positive is to come, and maybe it development of closer ties between these two nations and their citizens. i urge my colleagues to support this resolution. i reserve the balance of my time. >> did gentlemen reserves this time. the gentleman from florida is recognized.
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>> i yield myself such time. >> she is recognized for the >> i am saddened by the need for this resolution. the debt of polish president, his wife marie, and 94 other polish officials and citizens in the plane crashed in russia on april 10 was a sudden, unexpected and truly tragic tragedy for the nation of poland. we have seen the outpouring of grief since then by the citizens of poland in support and an honor of their late president and all who died with them. there is little that we can see or do today for the honors disposed -- bestowed upon them. we can offer our condolences
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been and remains a friend and an ally of the united states. despite the loss of their president, we can be certain that the polish people will continue on the road toward democracy, prosperity, and security, the road that they have traveled since they broke free of the grip of communist authoritarian rule in 1989. how proud we were when they regained their freedom that america had stood by the people of poland during those times when they suffered under a communist dictatorship, domination by the former soviet regime in moscow. similarly the people of poland now offer their solidarity with those who seek freedom in my native homeland of cuba. having suffered in the not-too-distant past under the
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crushing yolk of the -- yoke of the soviet regume, many in poland know all too well the struggles the cuban people face each and every day under the cuban dictatorship. poland's support for human rights and democracy in cuba illustrates it has not forgotten its past sufferings more the strength that it received from the solidarity of others. and how proud we are today that poland has become an important member of both the north atlantic alliance and the european union and that it has become a strong voice for those countries in the eastern europe that are working to ensure that they never again fall victim to the domination by a more powerful neighboring states. president kaczynski was in fact an important leader in an effort to ensure that the hard-won
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liberty and democracy today enjoyed by poland and other nations of eastern europe is not bartered away. he recognized the temptation faced by other european states which eagerly expand their commercial and military exports to russia while increasing their reliance on energy supplied from russia. he would not succumb to those russian manipulations and coercions. the late polish president was a voice that may have been unwelcomed among some in the council in brussels, but it was a voice that was heeded. moreover, madam speaker, under his leadership poland continued as a strong friend and a staunch ally of the united states. supporting military operations against extremists in iraq and
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in afghanistan, supporting america's efforts to create long-range missile defenses for both europe and the united states, participating as a full partner in nato, and supporting the expansion of democracy everywhere. there are those in europe who, while enjoying the security commitment provided by the united states through nato, nevertheless feel free to criticize america's initiative to fight extremism and address threats around the world. president kaczynski was not one of those voices. in fact, during his trip to the united states three years ago, he made a special trip to visit the reagan library as a sign of his country's appreciation for our former president's leadership in the efforts to free his country from communist
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domination. president kaczynski valued the support and offered poe lapd's support in return. madam speaker, we express our condolences to the people of poland on the loss of their president, his life, and so many of the leading officials and countrymen. at this time and in the future, america will forever remain a friend of poe lapd. with that, madam speaker -- poland. with that, madam speaker, i reserve the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlewoman reserves. the gentleman from massachusetts is recognized. mr. delahunt: i yield a minute to one of the original sponsors of this resolution, the gentlelady from pennsylvania, mrs. dahlkemper. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlewoman pennsylvania is recognized for one minute. mrs. dahlkemper: i thank the gentleman. madam speaker, i want to thank the leadership for allowing myself and my colleague, mr. lipinski, mr. kanjorski, to
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bring forward this very important but very sad resolution. it is with heavy heart that i rise today to offer house resolution 1246, expressing sympathy to the people of poland in the aftermath of the tragic plane crash that killed the country's president, first lady, and 94 others on april 10, 2010. president lech kaczynski, his wife, navy chief commander, governor of the polish central bank, other lawmakers, aides, and state officials were lost when their plane crashed in western russia. the delegation was traveling to a memorial service to honor 22,000 polish officers killed in russia's katen force by the soviet secret police in 1940. we offer our condolences and sympathy to the polish people and polish americans as we mourn the loss of president kaczynski, his wife, and others lost in this tragedy. the president was a distinguished statesman and leader in the solidarity
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movement. he will be long remembered for his commitment to freedom, democracy, and human dignity. today we stand in solidarity with more than 38 million polls in poland and nine million americans of polish decent residing in the united states, including more than 42,000 of polish americans in my hometown of eerie, -- erie, pennsylvania. they have made great contributions to our nation's livelihood and culture and we are grateful for their presence in the united states. our hearts go out to our polish brothers and sisters throughout the globe who share in this loss. at this time of mourning let us remember the word of st. peter, and the god of all great who call to his eternal glory of christ, after he suffer a little while restore himself to you and make you strong, firm, and steadfast. i urge my colleagues to stand in solidarity with poland and support our resolution. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlewoman florida is recognized. ms. ros-lehtinen: thank you very much, madam speaker. at this time i'd like to yield such time as he may consume, to
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our esteemed colleague, the gentleman from texas, mr. poe, wonderful member of our committee on foreign affairs. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from -- the gentleman is recognized. mr. poe: thank you, madam speaker. i thank the ranking member for yielding time. i also rise today to join all my colleagues in mourning the deaths of polish president lech kaczynski and many others who died in that plane crash on april 10, 2010. poland lost some of its most famous political figures, they were heroes among the polish people. the 95 people that died that day included the president, a very plow u.s. and anti-soviet -- pro-u.s. and anti-soviet individual and his wife and numerous other political and government officials. it's interesting to know why so many officials were going to russia, why they were on that particular plane headed to a specific event. well, that polish delegation was traveling to russia to commemorate the 70th anniversary
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of the cactin massacre. on september 17, 1939, the red army invaded the territory of poland from the east. they captured hundreds of thousands of polls and deported them to prisoner of war camps in western soviet union. once at the camps, the polls were subjected to lengthy interrogations and the prisoners could not be induced to adapt -- adopt a pro-soviet attitude, they were declared, "hardened and uncompromised enemies of the soviet republic." so on march 5, 1940, joseph stalin and three of his henchmen signed an order to execute over 20,000 prisoners, all polls, to weaken any future polish military. in the forest, soviet secret police executed more than 20,000 polish nationals who were mainly
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officers in the polish military. and beginning on april 3, the killings were methodical. after a condemned person's information was checked, that individual was handcuffed and led to a secret cell that was insulated with felt to make sure no noise could come from that cell. the sounds were also heard -- masked by the operations of loud machines that were working in the factories. after being taken to the cell the victim was immediately shot in the back of the head. his body was taken out through an opposite door in the cell and laid in one of the five or six waiting trucks where upon the next condemned poll was taken insaid and the same procedure was followed again. this occurred over 20,000 times. and the procedure went on every day, every night except ironically for the mayday celebration. in the end, those 20,000 p.o.w.'s and prisoners were
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executed without a trial, just a summary judgment. those who died include an admiral, two generals, 24 colonels, 79 lieutenant colonels, 258 polish majors, 650 captains, 17 naval captains, over 3,000 noncommissioned officers. it included even seven chaplains, three landowners, a prince, 43 public officials, 85 private, and 131 other refugees. also among the dead were 20 university professors, 300 doctors, several hundred lawyers, engineers, teachers, and more than 100 writers and journalists, as well as about 200 pilots. all leaders in the polish community, the effort of the soviet union was to destroy those leaders and destroy poland as well. these were all polls, all
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victims of terrorism communist. for over half a century moscow even denied this ever occurred. the soviet government had depressed all the information about the shootings and blamed it on the nazis. and in 1992 russia finally released the documents showing that the entire politburo, including joseph stalin, sooned an order dated march 4 to kill these polish officers. poland had a rough history in the last century. they were invaded by the nazis and many of the polls were taken to germany and died in concentration camps. and then the soviets invaded the same country trying to drive out the nazis and they, too, took many polls and put them in concentration camps where many of them died. in the united states we celebrate the end of world war ii in 1945. but the polls, they don't celebrate the end of world war ii in 1945.
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they celebrate it in 1989 when the wall finally fell and the soviets left town. it was a long war for our friends in poland. so now, madam speaker, we know the rest of the story. and why president kaczynski and so many polls were on that plane that crashed in russia. now, they, too, ironically have died on the same land where thousands of other polls died over 70 years ago. it is appropriate today that we pay homage to all of those polls who have lived and died in a quest for polish liberty. those polls who have always been an ally of the united states and we grieve while they grieve in poland. that's just the way it is. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from massachusetts is recognized. mr. delahunt: yes, madam speaker. i now yield a minute to another original sponsor of this
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resolution, the gentleman from illinois, mr. lipinski. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from illinois is recognized. mr. lipinski: madam speaker, i rise to share my deepest sympathies and condolences with the people of poland and all those impacted by this tragic plane crash. president kaczynski will be deeply missed. he was trying to ensure the strength and prosperity of poland. it was a strong ally of the united states. chicago also mourns the loss of one of our own who perished in the past. the polish and american people have shared a value of independence. today over nine million people of polish ancestry in the u.s.,
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poland remains one of america's closest aisle -- allies. we remain close on national security, democratization, and human rights. our friendship and partnerships have been and will continue to have been and will continue to be steadfast. i yield back the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlewoman from florida is recognized. ms. ros-lehtinen: madam speaker, i know that mr. delahunt has about 10 speakers so i am going to continue to reserve for a while. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlewoman reserves. the gentleman from
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massachusetts. mr. delahunt: yes, madam speaker. i now yield -- madam speaker, i now yield a minute to the dean of the house, chairman john dingell. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from michigan is recognized for a minute. mr. dingell: madam speaker, i ask unanimous consent to revise and extend my remarks. the speaker pro tempore: without objection. mr. dingell: madam speaker, i commend, congratulate and thank my good friends on the committee for their kindness, and i thank my good friend from massachusetts for yielding this time to me. i rise in strong support of the resolution expressing the sympathy of the united states for the people of poland in the aftermath of the tragic plane crash that killed the country's president. the first lady and 94 other poles. my thoughts and prayers are with the polish people at this difficult time. as an american of polish
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descent, proud of my heritage, i grieve at this loss and what a sad time it occurs when the poles were going to smolensk, russia, to commemorate the killing of 20,000 polish officers and intelligence under the direct orders of the soviet dictator, josef stalin. and i am grieving about the situation in poland, but i am proud that the polish people have established a democracy which is not only a friend of the united states but which is able to survive these difficult times and maintain not only its friendship for america but its leadership in the world and its superb work in maintaining a democracy for which the poles have learned so -- yerned so long. i yield back the -- yearned so long. i i yield to. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlewoman from florida continues to verve.
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the gentleman from massachusetts. mr. delahunt: i thank the gentleman. i now yield to the speaker of the house, the gentlelady from california, ms. pelosi. the speaker pro tempore: the speaker of the house, the gentlelady from california is recognized. the speaker: thank you, madam speaker. i thank mr. delahunt and congresswoman ros-lehtinen for giving us this opportunity to come to the floor to express our sympathy to the people of poland. our country is blessed with many polish americans. it is a blessing to our country . they are mourning this loss and all americans join them. and today congress officially joins in that mourning. the united states and indeed the entire world mourn the loss of president kaczynski and first lady, maria kaczynski, and those who perished in last week's crash. we stand by our friend and ally, poland, as they mourn the president and first lady, the
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chiefs of the army and navy, the president of the bank, the deputy minister and dozens other parliament officials. the pain of the loss is unimaginable. and our thoughts and prayers rest with the families, friends and loved ones of the victims. their loss strikes a blow to the hearts of polish citizens, all polish americans. my niece is a polish american. and all who believe in a future of peace and prosperity for poland and for every nation. i'd like to talk about the president. few leaders have proven greater champions of progress and human dignity than president kaczynski. he was a true advocate of liberty for poland, for poland's families, workers and citizens. his life was defined by a long struggle for freedom, and by the ultimate victory of democracy and human rights.
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as a leader in the solidarity movement, he helped turned the tides of history against the tyranny and oppression of communist rule. as mayor of warsaw and as president of poland, he worked to make the promise of a more just future a reality for the polish nation. together with so many who lost their lives in the tragedy, president kaczynski sought to rebuild poland, to make his country safer and more secure and to write a new chapter for future generations. again, as i say, we have been blessed in our country with a strong polish american community. and i know all of them join us in this resolution which remembers the lives lost in the -- in this horrible tragedy. the president, so many polish military leaders, past and
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present, and civilians. it recalls the president in exile who led the charge to close the doors of political oppression in an open age of democratic freedom. this resolution honors the life of the former dockworker whose actions changed the course of polish history. the resolution reminds us of the polish american artist from chicago who just finished a memorial to the victims of the katyn massacre where his father perished. the united states congress joins poland and countries across the globe in mourning the death of such extraordinary leaders. in the words of this resolution, we express strong and continued solidarity with the people of poland and all persons of polish descent. and we're so blessed that the dean of this delegation and this congress, mr. dingell, shares that honor, brings luster to his polish heritage as well as other members of our congress as well.
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the resolution offers our unwavering support for the polish government as it works to cover -- to overcome the loss of many key officials. let us strive to live up to their legacy of hope for a brighter future for poland, europe and all humanity. this morning i had the privilege of joining congresswoman marcy kaptur and congressman mike quigley, who was there before us and others who have gone to the polish embassy to sign the book of condolences. we're very proud in doing so we join president barack obama, who had earlier a few days ago signed that book. and i know it is a comfort to the people of poland and the ambassador, who may be with us here shortly, will join us in the gallery, who told us how the people of poland were so pleased and comforted by the fact that president obama would be attending the funeral in
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poland on sunday. he will bring with him all the sympathy of the american people and all of the prayers to help mourn the loss the people have suffered. thank you again, mr. chairman, madam ros-lehtinen, for giving us the opportunity to share our grief over this terrible loss. thank you, mr. chairman. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlewoman from florida is recognized. ms. ros-lehtinen: thank you, madam speaker. i'd like to ask for unanimous consent that for the remainder of our time judge poe would be allowed to manage our time. the speaker pro tempore: without objection. ms. ros-lehtinen: thank you, madam speaker. the gentleman from massachusetts. mr. delahunt: i thank you, madam speaker. i now yield one minute to the gentleman from new york -- ohio
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-- i apologize to the gentleman. mr. quigley. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from illinois is recognized for one minute. mr. quigley: thank you, madam speaker. madam speaker, last night i spoke of the great tragedy that had befallen poland. today i rise to recognize a great polish artist. one of my constituents, severn, was aboard the plane to participate in a commemorative event to plan to honor those 20,000 poles who died in katyn some 70 years ago. a polish artist and influential member of chicago's polish community, his father died at katyn and himself speer headed the construction of a memorial to the event at a cemetery in niles, illinois. he was on hand last year when the monument was dedicated. as he was at many important events in chicago's polish
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community. poles in chicago make up the largest ethnically polish population of any city outside of poland, second only to warsaw, the capital of poland. the polish american community will not fill the void left by many, but particularly mr. severn and those lost a few short days ago. thank you. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from texas. mr. poe: i reserve. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from massachusetts. mr. delahunt: i yield to the gentlelady from new york, ms. velazquez. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlelady from new york is recognized for one minute. ms. velazquez: thank you, madam speaker. i ask unanimous consent to revise and extend my remarks. the speaker pro tempore: without objection. ms. velazquez: i rise in strong support of the resolution. all of us mourns the loss much those who help spread the light of freedom during the cold war. our nation enjoys deep ties to
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poland. one group in my district has one of the most vibrant polish american communities in the nation. during the 1980's, many poles took refuge in this little poland where marshal law was -- back at home. president kaczynski went to green point. he worshiped in our churches, he met with local leaders and he visited with the people of little poland. his trip there was an inspiring moment for many new yorkers. today, there are heavy hearts in green point as well as in polish american communities throughout the nation. in the coming weeks, the polish people will grieve their loss. we join them in mourning, but we can be confident that poland will recover, carry forward and grow stronger. the fact that this crash while traveling to a ceremony for
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another tragedy is a sad irony. however, it reminds us of the polish people's strength in the face of adversity. that unyielding spirit shall remain an important part of poland's identity and of her many sons and daughters who reside in the united states. i yield back the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from texas reserves his time. the gentleman from massachusetts is recognized. mr. delahunt: yes, madam speaker, i now yield one minute to the gentleman from ohio, representative kucinich. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from ohio is recognized for one minute. mr. kucinich: thank you very much, mr. delahunt. on saturday i received a call from the leader of cleveland's polish community, john borkowski, who informed me of the tragedy that befell the nation of poland. cleveland has a very large polish american community which is very proud of its heritage and very involved in promoting the social and cultural aspects
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of polish ethnic heritage. the loss of the humble citizens on that plane was a great tragedy for poland. the total loss is a tragedy of monumental proportions. i'm glad to see the united states congress recognizing the tragedy that has befallen the polish people and also joining in in mourning the loss of president kaczynski, the first lady and 94 others. this is -- i would -- i ask unanimous consent to insert in the record a column by roger cohen that i think puts an appropriate frame on this important -- important discussion today in which we recognize the grief of the polish people and show solidarity with them. timely, i'd just like to say
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thank you. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from texas continues to reserve his time. the gentleman from massachusetts. mr. delahunt: yes, madam speaker, and i now yield one minute to the gentleman from new jersey, mr. pascrell. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from new jersey is recognized for one minute. mr. pascrell: i ask for unanimous consent to revise and extend my remarks. the speaker pro tempore: without objection. mr. pascrell: thank you. the very people who stand on this floor today, mr. delahunt, 10 years ago when we fought to make sure that poland was a member of nato. in your career, ironically as you stand to manage this resolution, resolution 1246, has been filled with building bridges between community. it is ironic that this tragedy hopefully will lead, and the signs are there, to greater relationships between russia
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and poland. poland is our ally. in st. john's church in cliffton, in my district, in wallington and garfie,@ @ @ @ @& k is a very special friend of the united states of america. thank you, mr. chairman.
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the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from texas reserves his time. the gentleman from massachusetts is recognized. mr. delahunt: madam speaker, i now recognize the distinguished member of the foreign affairs committee, the gentlelady from nevada, ms. berkley. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlewoman from nevada is recognized for one minute. ms. berkley: i thank the gentleman forgiving me this time to offer my condolences to the people of poland. madam speaker, i rise today to join the polish americans, our nation and indeed the whole world in expressing our deepest sympathies to the people of poland, following this weekend's tragedy that killed their president, the first lady and a number of other polish military and civic leaders and dignitaries. we remember these men and women who gave their lives while in the service of poland and we send our sincerest condolences to those families who have lost a loved one. president kaczynski fought for freedom during the cold war and brought our two nations closer
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together during his ten pour that office. his legacy will not be forgotten. america stands with our allied poland and we pledge our continued support during this time of transition. as a member of the house foreign affairs committee and chairman of the transatlantic dialogue, i call on my colleagues to ensure u.s. support for poland's needs after this heartbreaking and breathtaking incident and to support this resolution expressing our condolences to the people of poland and i yield back the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from texas. mr. poe: i continue to reserve my time. the speaker pro tempore: reserves his time. the gentleman from massachusetts is recognized. mr. delahunt: madam speaker, i now wand too -- want to recognize the distinguished gentlelady from ohio, mrs. capito -- capture. ms. kaptur: thank you for bringing this bill to the -- ms. kaptur. ms. kaptur: thank you for bringing this bill to the floor. i was emailed by a leader of the
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polish community informing me of this tragic situation and i rise in support of this important resolution offering sympathy to the libblet-loving nation and people of the republic of poland. our great ally. poland is one of america's longest and most steadfast allies from the time of our own republic's founding made possible by the valuians of polish generals -- valuians of polish generals. poland's highest leaders, including its president and first lady, were among the victims of that terrible crash. as they went in their way to commemorate the 70th anniversary of the katyn massacre when over 22,000 polish officers, intellectuals and leaders were murdered at the hands of josef stalin and the soviet army in and around that forest during world war ii. and the truth of that slaughter was hidden for over 70 years and now the entire world knows of that sacred ground.
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madam speaker, please allow me to extends condolences on behalf of my constituents in ohio, to the friends and families of those who perished, to the people of poland, to the nation of poland, to the people of polish heritage throughout the world. let this moment be one of recommitment to poland's highest aspirations and full expression of its own, own history. so long as we are alive there will be a poland. i yield back the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from texas is recognized. mr. poe: continue to reserve my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman reserves. the gentleman from massachusetts. mr. delahunt: madam speaker, i have no further requests at this time and i'd ask the gentleman if he has any additional speakers? mr. poe: i'm prepared it to close. i reserve myself -- i yield myself as much time as i may consume, madam speaker. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized. mr. poe: madam speaker, we sometimes forget how great an ally poland is to the united states. they have not only had a quest for freedom for their own people, but they have been an ally to this nation.
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and as the united states and other nato countries are engaged in the battle against terrorism in afghanistan, there are over 2,000 members of the polish military that are there as well, side by side with the united states and other nato forces. freedom fighters that they are, helping to seek freedom and liberty in afghanistan and against those international terrorists who do us all harm. i think mr. pascrell, the gentleman from new jersey, said it well, today we're all poles and we honor them and we suffer their loss and their grief at this time because of the tragedy that occurred not only saturday but the massacre that occurred in that forest in the soviet union many, many years ago. i yield back the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields back the balance of his time. the gentleman from massachusetts. mr. delahunt: yes, madam speaker, i would just echo the
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eloquent sentiments expressed by eloquent sentiments expressed by my friend from texas.
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personnel all came together. may the good lord keep our lost miners, may he care for those families and bless those rescue personnel who risked their own lives in service to others and may he want over each and every coal mine who are continues to work and walk in the wake of risk and service to ouration that. i yield back my time to the chairman. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields back. the gentlewoman from washington. mrs. mcmorris rodgers: mr. speaker, i yield myself such time as i may consume. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized. mrs. mcmorris rodgers: every day thousands of men and women go to work in coal mines to bring electricity to our homes. to make our lives easier, more comfortable. the working conditions for these miners are anything but comfortable or easy. i rise today to honor their work
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and sadly the sacrifice of 29 men last monday in the upper big branch mine. this resolution offers our condolences to these miners' families as well as the nation mourns with them. it's also a time to pledge that we will work with the federal agency's task to investigate this accident, determine the cause and take the appropriate actions. on monday we watched as mine rescue teams and mine safety officials descended on the upper big branch mine. the frustration was apparent as rescue teams attempted to reach chambers that night, but were unable to proceed far enough into the mine because of the dangerous levels of gases. mourning began for seven families who knew immediatel that their loved ones were killed by the blast. and then the agonizing waiting began. for a week, families waited for those who might have made it to safety and those who had not.
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four missing miners had the slightest hope that they were safely barricaded in a chamber. the miracle that we'd hoped for did not happen. we cannot, however, forget the tireless efforts of the mine rescue teams and the government officials who worked around the clock to reach those trapped. mine rescue teams volunteered their time to train for the unthinkable. to put themselves in harm's way. the burden of recovery falls on these miners as they try to bring closure to the families by bringing their loved ones home one more time. we honor their courage in these very trying circumstances. i urge my colleagues to vote aye on house resolution 1236, mourning the loss of miners in the upper big branch mine and honoring those participating in the rescue and the recovery operation. and i reserve the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlewoman reserves the balance of her time. the gentleman from california. mr. miller: i yield three minutes to mr. mollohan.
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the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from west virginia is recognized for three minutes. mr. mollohan: mr. speaker, mr. chairman, i thank the gentleman from california for yielding. and i thank him also for his leadership on mine safety and workplace safety. mr. speaker, i would also like to thank the sponsor of this resolution, my colleague from west virginia's third congressional district, nick rahall. coal miners and the coal industry have no greater champion than the chairman of the natural resources committee, chairman rahall. mr. speaker, tragedy has visited west virginia's coal mines again.
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if a -- as a visitor, our state knows all too well the names of the communities changed with each visit and the years as well. monanga in 1907, farmington in 1968, sago in 2006 and now raleigh county, april, 2010. the names change, mr. speaker, but the grief and the sorrow, they stay exactly the same. the mother who lost her son last week is united with the sister who lost her brother in 1968 and the daughter who lost her father in 1907. mr. speaker, shy of two million people live in my state, maybe one in 90 earns a living as a coal miner in the coal fields. most west virginians have never been underground and most never
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will be. but every one of us lives with the knowledge and the full appreciation of what can go wrong whenever a new shift of miners goes underground. coal mining is not just my state's most important industry, it is central to our culture and our social identity. when tragedy visits one of our communities, it visits our entire state. it brings us together, it reminds us in sometimes a difficult light, we can always look to that larger community for support. we saw those bonds in the rescue cruise last week bat -- crews last week. we see those bonds in the volunteers onsight in raleigh county today and we see those bonds in the churches and the union halls and the schools throughout the is it state wherever west virginians come together. there's hard work ahead of us
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and there's pragmatic work ahead of us. the engineers and the experts, they'll come and they'll analyze what went wrong in raleigh county last week. and this congress will debate what went wrong last week. we will assign responsibility and we will consider what actions are necessary to make the hard work of taking coal from the ground less dangerous, to do all that is possible to prevent such future tragedies. that will be the most lasting test moan we can offer those who lost their live -- testimonial we can offer those who lost their lives in in raleigh county. we offer our deepest condole epses to the miners' families and we come together again in support of our community. thank you, mr. speaker. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman's time has expired. the gentlewoman from washington. mrs. mcmorris rodgers: thank you, mr. speaker.
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i yield to the gentleman from minnesota, the ranking member of the education and labor committee, mr. kline, for such time as he may consume. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from minnesota is recognized for such time as he may consume. mr. kline: thank you, mr. speaker. i thank the gentlelady for yielding. mr. speaker, i rise today with my colleagues to honor the memory of the 29 miners who lost their lives in the upper big branch mine and to express our gratitude to the rescue teams who bravely pursued a tragic recovery mission. the nation watched in collective apprehension last week as mine rescue teams rushed from the coal fields of appalachia to the small town of whitesville to help their own. for a week we all clung to the hope that four missing miners might have found refuge. it was not to be. over the weekend the mine rescue teams performed a more solemn duty, bringing these men out of the mine one final time. you understand the best conditions, mining is dangerous work. after an explosion the mines are even more treacherous.
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mine rescue teams undertake rigorous training and exercise valiant resolve. today we recognize their bravery in the face of danger and tragedy. h.res. 1236 honors their commitment to service. chairman miller has announced our intention to investigate this tragedy and seek answers on behalf of the families and the entire mining community. our focus must determine what caused this devastating loss so we can prevent it from ever happening again. the cameras have gone elsewhere and this tragedy has faded from the hourly broadcast. for the families, however, the devastation of the upper big branch mine will never disappear. with this resolution, we offer our condolences and we honor their loved ones and we pledge pledge our commitment to get to the bottom of this. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields back. the gentleman from california. mr. miller: i yield myself three
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minutes. as my colleagues have rounted on monday, april 5, an explosion rocked the upper big branch coal mine in west virginia killing 29 miners and injuring others. this is the worst mine disaster in the united states for almost for decades. for over two centuries, millions of west virginian livelihoods have been in coal deposits. coal has left a mark on the communities throughout west virginia and appalachia. for many of these communities, the mine may be the only way to earn a decent living. these miners are proud of their work and their contribution to the american economy. coal is in their blood, it's in their tradition and it is their career. what we also know that underground mine something one of the most dangerous jobs in the world. every day miners show up for their shift knowing that there's a chance that they may not return to their families and yet they show up every day. at 3:30 p.m. during the shift change, a massive explosion ripped through the upper big branch mine and took the lives of 29 miners and sent others to the hospital. while the cause of this tragedy
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is still under investigation, today we me more yalingize those 29 miners who perished. our nation sends our deepest condolences to those. we sent our heartfelt sympathies to those who have lost someone. those thoughts are with you and your communities and your suffering these devastating losses. these losses will remain long after the headlines fade from national attention. today we also recognize the valiant efforts of the many rescue teams who in many cases travel long distances or risk their lives in helps of saving their fellow miners. many rescuers had to evacuate the mine at least four times as a result of explosive levels of methane gas. these brave men and women who worked around the clock day after day had the appreciation of this congress and this nation for their selfless efforts. i would also like to recognize congressman nick rahall who grew up in beckly, west virginia, only a few miles south of the mine. congressman rahall sponsored this resolution and provided the much-needed rock of support for
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his constituents during this disaster. reports have come back to me of his con soling and listening to families, neighbors and friends in his community. i know how much these families appreciate his support and those efforts. over the last few years, i have met many families who have suffered similar tragic losses in mining disasters. and what i have learned is that the impacts of these disasters far ranged will be seen in the general society because of the history of these communities, the culture of these communities, the work ethic in these communities, these tragedies spread across in an indelible way from the loss of a single miner. in the face of these overwhelming tragedies, these families are showing incredible strength and determination. i made a promise to the families of sago, to dashy, that we would do everything in our power to uncover the cause of these tragedies and do everything possible to prevent other miners from suffering these similar fates. i want to extend that same promise to these families of
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upper big branch mine and to the miners and the community that we will continue that promise to get to the bottom of this tragic incident. they paid the ultimate price in doing the job our nation depends upon. every mine who are goes to work every day must be able to return home safely to their families at the end of that shift and congress has an obligation to ensure that that remains the case. i yield back the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman reserves. does the gentleman reserve or yield back? the gentleman reserves his time. the gentlewoman from washington. mrs. mcmorris rodgers: thank you, mr. speaker. i yield to the gentlewoman from west virginia, mrs. capito, for such time as she may consume. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlewoman from west virginia is recognized for such time as he she may consume. mrs. capito: thank you, mr. speaker, and thank you for yielding me the time. i rise today with my fellow west virginians and those of us in this congress in support of today's resolution to extend our condolences to the families of the 29 miners who were killed in last week's mine disaster in
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virginia. i would like to thank my colleague, congressman rahall, for his steadfast support, his compassionate empathy for those in his district who have suffered an unimaginable loss. his strength and compassion was very evident to all of us who watched the activities as they unfolded in raleigh county. i'd also like to thank our governor, governor mansion. he was a stalwart comforter in chief to many of us because as my fellow colleagues from west virginia had said, if one west virginian suffers, we all suffer. i'd like to thank the outstanding mine rescue teams and many volunteers. the accident that occurred at performance coal company's upper big branch mine has taken a toll on all west virginians and left a community shaurd, very sad and very -- shattered, very sad and very shaken.
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they found no survivors. while we were all hoping for a miracle, unfortunately we were left with the sad conclusion. too many families have suffered the tragic loss of losing a loved one in a mine disaster. last week's explosion was the worst mining disaster in an american mine in 40 years, and the third major mining disaster in west virginia in the last four years. an explosion at the sago mine in my district on january 2, 2006, trapped 13 miners for nearly two days. by the grace of god, one miner survived. we cannot forget the grief and suffering of the families, friends and co-workers of all the miners who have survived. these deaths can be and should be prevented. the rescue efforts were valiant, working around the clock to help their workers, and to help the families in the horrible time of grief. following sago, congress rightly passed a stricter mine
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safety regulations to enhance inspector programs, improve emergency response and put in place protection to protect future mine disasters. to ensure that all mines receive regular inspection, congress has increased funding because itch that has been unable to get these funding. however, regulations are not good if they are not enforced. the coal companies must be vigilant and must follow the rules in every case. no excuses. keeping our miners safe requires a collaborative approach between the regulators and the mining industry. both must expand their health and safety programs to prevent hazards from starting in the first place. otherwise, reforms congress clearly intended to address with the passage of the miner act will be rendered meaningless. congress has an important oversite role. -- oversight role. there will be and should be a
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thorough investigation into this tragedy to determine what further action must be taken to prevent this from ever happening again. i vow to take whatever measures are necessary to ensure the safety and health of our coal miners. i join today with my colleagues and really the entire nation to extend our condolences to the families of the lost miners and to the communities surrounding. this is a devastating loss for all of us, and the warmth and prayers that have been sent to those of us living in west virginia and particularly in the mount cole area. i ask my colleagues to join me in passing this resolution. the speaker pro tempore: the time of the gentlewoman has expired. the gentleman from california. mr. miller: i yield to the gentleman from california, ms. woolsey, three minutes. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from california is recognized for three minutes. ms. woolsey: this resolution --
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the upper big branch mine in raleigh county, west virginia, this resolution supports those family members left behind. our deepest sympathies goes out to these families and we also hope for the speedy recovery of the two miners who were injured. miners are the basis for america's future. and it's true that miners work in a very dangerous profession, but there is absolutely no excuse for a tragedy like this one. we don't know yet the cause of this explosion, but the investigations have begun. we do know, however, that massey engineering, the mine owner, was -- had 450 safety regulations in 2009 for the upper big branch mine. massey said -- kept msha that
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could have led to a shutdown of the mine and it could have increased scrutiny of this owner. and possibly preventing these disasters. these appeals filed by the companies like massey have created a tremendous backlog at the review commission. a backlog that has increased from 1,500 cases in the year 2005 to 16,000 cases today. the review commission does not have the resource to resolve a backlog of this size in a timely fashion so we as members of congress must immediately provide the background and the legal authority for more funds to hire more administrative law judges so that we can expedite the appeals process. in addition to scrutinizing
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massey, we immediate to look at msha authority as well. does ms-ha nude more authority to carry out its -- does msha need more authority to carry out its mission? i will be working closely with chairman miller, ranking member kline and congresswoman mcmorris rodgers and representative rahall and all of the others in this congress which is probably 435 of us knowing that we must take the steps that are necessary to prevent any future mining disasters. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlelady yields back. the gentlewoman from washington. mrs. mcmorris rodgers: i will reserve until it's time to close. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlelady reserves. the gentleman from california. does the gentleman reserve? mr. miller: i can reserve.
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>> it is hard to know. at some point, the markets will make a judgment about our political ability to achieve longer-term sustainability. at that point, interest rates will go up. that will be a negative for economic growth and recovery. we do not know when that point will be reached. for that reason, it is important even if we cannot balance the budget, we have to think about how in the long term we can put it on a sustainable trajectory. >> the market's can anticipate that happening now. >> yes. >> we have the financial regulatory reform bill coming out of the senate banking committee.
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my concern is the placement of an independent consumer protection purer within the federal reserve. and then by the fed's ability to print money. do you have a views on this stand-alone agency being placed within the fed? >> i like to understand how it would better work. my current understanding is that the agency would not be with the fed in any accountability since. it is essentially free standing. being within the fed is a vague idea at this point. it is true that the current proposal would involve federal resolve financing of this agency. that does not make it any less cost to the tax payer. it is up to congress how you
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want to account for and finance the agency. that way of doing it would lead to less revenue, because someone be used to support the agency. >> i want to urge you to continue to speak out about the fiscal condition of the country. we are in a path that is not a good one at all. at any point or time, the markets could start reacting negatively. the sooner we start to react to that, the better for the country. thank you very much. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i appreciate you being here. you have spoken about imbalances
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in the global economy, and the role they play leading up to the financial crisis. deficit countries need to rely less on consumption. surplus countries need to increase their domestic demand if the global economy is going to thrive. it is clear to me and many experts agree that china's policy helps to perpetuate the imbalances of the global economy by subsidizing even more chinese export at the cost of increasing american exports. it makes us too much of a consumption country in china too much of an exporter. it has a direct impact on american jobs. everybody spt admits that is the case. when we started on this five years ago, everyone was saying
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go away. we are not. if china moved to a free- floating exchange rate, it would do more for jobs here in the u.s. than any single stimulus program we could pass into law. now we have combined our currency reform bill into one. do you agree that the current policy contribute to harmful global imbalances and was one of the causes to the goal rod recession? >> yes, i broadly agree with that. most agreed their currencies are undervalued. the want to move to a more export oriented economy. it would be for the the good of the chinese to allow more flexibility in the exchange rate. they should combine a more
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flexible exchange rate with other efforts to increase domestic demand and consumption and achieve a more balanced economy. it is a contributing factor. >> it isn't a large contributing factor? >> a 30%. >> that is huge. " how much -- >> i do not know how much is that you did to the exchange rate, but it is a contributing factor. >> if it is in their interest to do it, why does china not do it? >> they have a variety of political questions and concerns. they are being conservative about the effect of any large changes.
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they have political factors such as the influence of exporters who are interested in maintaining that strong orientation. they have a variety of intellectuals and political rationales. >> do not we lose thousands and thousands of jobs because of this? >> besides floating the exchange rate, they would also need to take action such as creating a stronger safety net in creating more domestic orientation towards spending. in the short-term, it would not have a major impact, but later it will. >> you are me or one of us here.
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we hear that our manufacturers say they cannot compete. they make great product and selling it in china. the chinese are copying their products, not letting them sell it in china in more, but will sell them here. the firm is worried it will go out of business. these are high end products. i hear about this all of the time. what do you do if you are us. i've been talking about this for five years. talking will get you nowhere. we are ready to act. what the suggest we do? why do i tell of the workers who have lost their jobs? what do i tell them who are being put out of business, they
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believe the unfair competition? >> we must continue to press for a more flexible rate. >> we should push for more than what we have, which has done nothing. >we are about 30% out of balance has been worth a year ago. >> the relationship with china is very complicated. >> it is time we put jobs in america first. i worry about the future of the country because we are not. this question relates to consumer protection. nonbank mortgage companies and others outside the mainstream banking system played a major role in the financial crisis with many consumer abuses.
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there will be enforcement power over a large nonbanks. the power will have to be exercised in the will making process. i filed an amendment that would make the new consumer bureau able to enforce its rules against non-bank financial companies, large or small. they prey on the poor. under the bill, they're not regulated because they are small non financials. do you agree they should be regulated? >> yes. there should be an even playing field between those banks and nonbanks. the only complexity is there are many states involved. some do a better job than others. working with the states would be an important part to do this effectively. >> to just exempt small, nonfinancial companies does not make any sense right?
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>> i think there should be an even playing field. >> why would you want the cfta in the fed? the whole mission of the fed is not consumer protection is safety and soundness. i think the fed as the linkage of in many areas and poor job in consumer protection. why would you want it in any form in the fed? wind is be better to have it and independent agency -- would not it be better to have it as an independent agency? >> we have not asserted anything on this issue. >> i understand. why would you want this? or are you saying that you do not want it? >> i understand why people would be concerned, given that we were
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late in making some important -- in taking some important steps. i can understand why some advocates would want to have a purely independent agency that would have this as a top priority. we have a knowledge being laid on these issues. we should receive credits for being -- for having a much better performance in recent years. there are advantages of it if the agency should be separated completely from the regulatory functions. >> if your number one goal were consumer protection, and you would want its independenct? >> we all should be concerned
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about issues such as credit availability. >> thanks. >> we agreed that the currency of china is undervalued. there is a question about its impact on the u.s. trade deficit. it is important that we do not allow that issue overshadow concerns we have over intellectual property rights, subsidies, and other issues such as protecting investments in the chinese beria -- barrier to u.s. exports. by ratifying an agreement with
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panama, south korea, and others, we could have more jobs in america. i am still convinced that there is not a real differentiation in the fed and the other banking regulators between growth markets in regions and contracting regions. i am concerned that there is not an understanding that canadian regional banks have picked up demand and met by the fall of one region. i am convinced that today among the banks and there is a clear statement that commercial real- estate loans are problem loans. fees and you get them off your books, the better. -- as soon as you get them off your books, the better. i appreciate the efforts you are
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making. you have executives at a recent round table this week with some of our most sound real estate leaders. we appreciate that you're listening to those concerns. you referenced the deficit in your remarks. it is so critical. will you freeze the money in the hope of artificially lifting output. will you resist pressure to monetize the debt as rising power costs intensify the federal budget? >> we will. our holdings in treasury securities today is about the same before the crisis. we have not monetize the debt. we will not. we will continue to make sure a price stability is essential to our objectives. let me assure you on that point.
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given the structure of our debt, it would not even help reduce the debt. given that some in the of our obligations are short-term or real obligations such as medical obligations or security applications or index, it would not have a substantial effect even if there were willing to do that, which they are not. there is no alternative but to try to find real solutions. it would not effect the balance very much. >> i think the pressure will increase.
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we are dealing with some major changes with the federal reserve, such as making the bank in new york a presidential appointee. you have concerns about that? >> i do not think that is the right way to go. we want to maintain accountability to the board of governors which will oversee the system. that is the appropriate way to be accountable to the congress, which we will be. we want to be open on all financial matters. we want to maintain independence on of -- on all of our financial independence. >> -- financial decisions. >> could undermine the independence of the fed by dealing with monetary policy? " i think ever structure has
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worked pretty well. it has a good combination of presidential selected leaders. everyone's views are heard. it is a collective decision. i think we get both the washington perspective and accountability and very important information and input from around the country. one of the sources of the information is state banks that are very informed by our local economy. that is a concern that we have that we put clues that oversize.
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independence is very important. the main issue is an to make sure we are allowed state actions in pursuit of our mandate without intervention by the congress or the administration. >> thanks. i think i am having the same problem that a lot of other people are. we continue to say that small business in create jobs. employment lags behind when the economy is turning around. the us say maybe we are growing in a little bit. we are not going to see employment pick up for a while.
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everyone is coming to that realization. most of the businesses, small businesses who is in business because it isn't a good time and money is flowing and people are getting into business for the reason, those are gone. the u.s. businesses that of an amount for a while. they cannot get money for working capital. they cannot get loans to buy inventory or to upgrade the technology that they need. banks are not lending still. we are almost as 0% interest
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rate. money is pretty cheap. even those credits that before were in good credit and a still pretty good credit cannot get to the money. what do you suggest? what is happening out there? what are we missing-what do we need to do. there is some much paperwork to getting a loan. it is a long process. these businesses are saying, we made it through, we are still around, working capital to move forward. i have seen a lot of businesses like that. they may not have any equity in their homes to borrow against. what are we going to do about that? what do you suggest?
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what can we do to get that moving? >> small businesses create a lot of jobs, particularly in economic recoveries. if they cannot get credit, it will slow their expansion. that is a top priority for the federal reserve. the issues are really complicated. some firms that credit earlier and now they cannot qualify with tougher credit terms. some are not demanding credit. the number one problem is lack of demand, customers. some firms are able to get credit, but not all. it is a complicated picture. one of credit were the small business that cannot get credit is one too many. we want to fix that.
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we have a long list of policy actions, including strengthening the banking system's, our interest in policies. our supervisory role, we have issued a very strong guidance to banks and examiners that small businesses are to be evaluated based on their ability to pay not geography. we encourage second round of reviews if the first one does not pass. we are very explicit that that the klein for the home is not a reason to mark down or deny the loan. we have been working very hard to get feedback.
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bankers tell congressmen if they are having problems, but will not tell us. we tried to get as much feedback as possible. we have been having meetings to run the country with small businesses and community activists to determine what we can do. we are working very hard to improve the situation. credit is tighter and that is unavoidable. we want to make sure that credit-worthy borrowers will have access to credit. we are working hard on that. in terms of what congress can do, there are proposals to use leftover turkey funds to incentivize small banks. they know them better. they have long-term relationships.
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we have been trying to increase ever date information about the loans. it will take another lengthy explanation to talk about the pros and cons. small banks who know the customers can increase their lending. i encourage you to look at that. >> i would like to discuss with you or your people how we might kit to that point. we have information from our bankers saying they may need to talk to the. there appears to be a disconnect. we need to get beyond this barrier -- i used to be in the financial industry. there seems and to be credit- worthy businesses. it is like the money is right here, but they cannot get to it.
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>> i encourage anyone around the table who would like to bring in people, we would work out ways to have those conversations. >> thanks. >> i want to make a brief comment. a comment about the answer that you gave about monetizing debt. your balance sheet is stable with treasury bills. you mention in your statement agency debt and mortgage-backed securities is over $1.30 trillion. where did you get the money that you created it. the banking system bought treasury bills and can borrow money at 0%. that is why they are making a lot of money because they can
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borrow debt and it looks magic except the people losing their mortgages are losing their houses right now. of these people already on the payroll that our examiners? >> the on the payroll. >> 10,000 probably will not do much good. it is not a lack of examination if you do not deal with the problem. that comes from a monetary policy of low interest rates. all of the examiners in the world cannot compensate for this. the idea that capital can come from a printing press rabin savings, i have a hard time understanding how an economy can thrive on that.
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every notion of free-market capitalism -- the question i have on the imf is they announced they are going to open up a new appointment to borrow or expand. it coincides with the crisis gone on in increase in europe and how they are going to be bailed out. the irony of this promise is that in the new arrangement, greece is going to put $2.5 billion in there. to have increase bailout increase and be prepared to bailout even other countries -- we are going to go from 50 -- from 10 up to 105 billion dollars we will commit to help failing of the various countries
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of the world. and want to get your comment on this. why does it coincide with greece? why do they need $560 billion ta? who pays for this? where does it come from? will it come up of the printer press once again? are we expected to bailout of the world? are you in favor of this increase in the imf funding and the commitment to $105 billion? >> one of the agreement that the g-20 leaders can afford with a mutual commitment to put more money into the imf as a way of addressing the financial crisis the around the room. -- around the world.
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that was before greece. if money is put out to any country, it would be done with specific approval from the executive board, which includes the u.s. in a beat-up position. this country have him meet certain conditions. the g-20 leadership has agreed that this is a way to provide credit to avoid fiscal or exchange-rate crises around the world. >> do you think it is a good idea? should we make this commitment? >> in general, it is a good idea. >> where will the money come from? we are bankrupt as well. what are we going to do with a
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state with under the gun. california and others are approaching a limited. we cannot turn down calif.-if we can pay out all of these banks and they get off the whole, and they are making billions, would we ever turned down california or any other state in the same situation that >> that is the decision of congress. >> you have built up a lot of people from the imf. you have the capability of buying off some debt. we cannot oddity you to find of what you do. you can do whatever you want. >> you can see any transaction or loan we make. we are having to provide that to you. the imf is a separate institution. >> where would the money come from? >> it would be created out of
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thin air. >> we would take our share of the month. >> thanks. -- our share of the loss. >> thanks. >> you quelled a panic. you may want to remember that the decades from now when you are looking for something. he said the financial conditions of banking firms has strengthened the marketplace. what concerns me is the ethics in banking. if i want to buy a car, i will
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this -- i will steady who puts out the best car. i asked around about it. i get references and the talk about who did the best job. the providers of a product, they work to satisfy. we have a situation with major players is that look for ways their customers will be unsuccessful. the one i am most familiar with now is i am a bank of america customer. there is a computer program. the banks closed on good friday and i look at all of the debit
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card purchases i did over the weekend. they are processed with the largest first. we know what that is about. the goal is to drive people unknowingly into overdraft fees. they want me to fail as a customer. if that is how they are treating people -- they make most of their money on overdraft fees, but they are praying and hoping that we do not succeed at managing a more money. we had this history of the last several years that led to this problem of loans that should never have been made. they can walk away from their mistakes and do not care if they succeed or not. you have senate did job at quelling the panic and i think history will treat you well.
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the question is on the more vague one. what about the ethics and morality of the financial services industry? i have asked this question and they say they are responsible to their shareholders. so are my consumers. what about the responsibility where you want to put out a product to help the customers succeed? >> i think it is incredibly important. the ethical treatment is important that any business. there are some bankers that are very ethical and some that are not. we need to make sure there are adequate protections for those that are not. the fed recently put out rules requiring restrictions to opt in
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to receive an overdraft feet. we did not make a change regarding the largest fee to the smallest breed being listed first. we are looking at those practices. they are not completely straightforward. there are arguments for the big one first, because people want to make sure their mortgage first rather than their coffee. >> i have had the personal experience of going in and checking its balance before i get cash out on a saturday.
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it says i have a certain amount, and i take out money. then because of the recalculation, i end up overdrafting. most people do not into on-line bank and follow it like the idea. i am so intrigued by what they are doing. i think it is very difficult to deal with all of these issues. if there is a morality in the industry that says ultimately ever goal is to get money from people, not necessarily to see them have a successful commercial real-estate venture or successful home loan, but to package and sell and move on. thanks. >> and observation was made that
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was so important. the concept that the banks that got into trouble were able to get money at a low interest rate and a turnaround in learned back to you at a much higher interest rate. this is no reason for them to make loans to a small business person. they were making money working of this system that the fed has provided for them. i urge you to look at that. he talked about most of the creditworthy business to is being given an appraisal that makes them appear non-credit worthy. this is a real problem. i have heard from people all over my district that this is going on today. to the extent that you offer
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help in that, i intend to take him up on that offer. several of these individuals will visit with me next week. unlike for them to tell someone at the fed. part of it is market to market and part of it is fitting appraisals back. they are slow in coming back that they do not reflect a rapidly changing market conditions. people in the real world cannot function in the system that we have created for them. i think the representative had some good points. i will take you up on that offer, because i think there needs to be more hands-on from the fed s to what are the actual effect of the monetary policy that you are pursuing. you also made a comment that
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they talk about auditing the fed and what is in there. is there a way for me to know what the fed holds as far as real holdings in my congressional district-your story is on the radio about them owning certain things in oklahoma city. what do you own in my congressional district? can i get that information? >> aes. the only kind of strange -- we own treasurys and the liabilities of fannie and freddie mac. we do have some assets that were involved in the bailout of bear stearns and aig still on our balance sheet. this is not something we wanted to do.
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all we have released all the information in those assets. >> i appreciate that. i will follow up on that. he spoke about the concern of the structural deficit and the provision due to expire and the provisions made. here is a report from the joint committee on taxation. there are 50 pages of tax cuts that are expiring in the next 10 years. some in expire, but that people at the fed gone through this to determine which of these dave will late the alternative minimum tax kick in?
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how are we going to pay for that by the end of the year? we always do something. has someone at the fed on through this entire report looking at the expiring tax provisions over the next 10 years so that we have some idea of what we are dealing left in terms of the structural deficit going forward? >> on the tech 5, i am not advocating any policy, but telling you how they have done these projections. this is one where all of them are extended. the biggest ones are the 2003 tax cuts and the they dominate.
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>> that directly effect the policy that we talk about that we should be concentrating on with the job creation and job growth. the young person getting out of college today and has difficulty finding a job and may set a tone for their productive years that is forever tainted by their experience because of this recession. you have the person that is my age, the late bloomer, who also is having difficulties. those jobs do not exist. we have to look at the beginning in the latter end of the employment years. >> i agree with that.
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they are having difficulties. there are different ways to address that. it affects a person's ability to earn a living in the labor market >> thanks. you have an interesting job. you have so much to deal with. we are confronting this huge national debt. the illicit, unjustified invasion in iraq and the
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millions of dollars that has been spent their is one reason. the tax reduction for the wealthiest people in this country and the cost of they dramatic drop in the income of a virtually everyone else -- almost all of the working people in this country. the inability to negotiate the price of prescription drugs in the context of medicare, which is jeopardized the future of medicare. all of these things are critically important. i hope he will make a contribution to working with them. all of these other things that we have to deal with her critically important. we have to understand what they are about and how they came about. the engagement of investment in
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commercial banks now continues in spite of the fact the economy is beginning to get a little better. there are ways in which this is being attempted to be addressed. one of the ways is in the context of the financial reform bill. one of the things he is trying to do is to introduce elements of the vocal role to deal essentially with what happened with the elimination of the class stiegel act. the provisions of the volcker rolule is important.
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what do youvm, expect will comet of that study with regard to the inclusion with the vocal role. if it comes out positively -- wilvolcker rule. >> we have to draw a line. what the fed will find is drawing a sharp line is not easy, because there are various activities such as hedging or other positions that may involve tipperary holdings. it may not be as easy to say this is proprietary or not. we need to have a set of rules or criteria that will help distinguish which is under this
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rule and which is not. that is going to be the challenge. we will have to see what the results are. >> there is going to be opposition to making a clear decision. no question about that. it will come as a result of the huge amounts of income generated the process of this situation. this has to be brought about effectively. we could do something simple such as bringing back the class stiegel act and separating those banks and eliminating the conflict of this kind of investments. it would seem to me that that would be very effective. when it was put in place in 1933, it affected the great depression very there is a great resistance to doing that now. that is coming from a handful of people who are effectively engage in this kind of
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manipulation of investment. can you tell us a little bit more about what you think should happen here? is there any way your operation and congress can be engaged more effectively in bringing about a more open and honest way in which the spanking situation is engaged and the elimination of this manipulation that has been one of the major causes of this deep recession we are experiencing? >> i do not think the classical act by itself will solve our problems. -- glass stiegel by itself will solve our problems. separating that would not have saved lehman brothers or protected a number of the banks. >> some of that elimination had occurred prior to the elimination of complete legislation in 1999.
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there were interactions and interventions and manipulation, all of which brought about some of this. >> it is not just the separation. we need to take important steps that will include stronger capital requirements to make sure the institutions who are taking risks are bearing those risks themselves. it would include making sure that every large financial firm -- we do not have the cat that we had. it is very important to have this resolution regime, which means the creditors and the shareholders would bear the cost, which creates another set of incentives to keep banks away from risky investments. there are many things we can do.
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i do not think that class stiegel itself can solve this problem. -- glass stiegel itself can solve this problem. >> thanks for being here. i was in my state last week. we had a 7.3 unemployment rate. there are glimmers of hope, which i know you see with all of your numbers crunching. one company is hiring 400. anybody who wants to come should see me. we have glimmers of hope. what i want to talk about is the potential limitation on our recovery. i appreciate you speaking out on that. the budgets and lifting the debt cap -- i was distraught that
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some of our colleagues change their votes. can you talk about the importance of getting something done on the long term for a from markets and economy and why it debt commission -- that we could have an up and down vote on is so important it has a direct implications for the health of our economy and maybe not even just in the long run. if we have higher interest rates, it affects job creation. we may have to borrow more from abroad. it means a heavier burden for our children to pay back. those are the classic problems. worse than that, right now, the markets are signaling a lot of confidence that our political system will deliver a sustainable trajectory of a
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fiscal policy going into the next few decades. it is very encouraging that we can borrow 30 years at 4%. >> he belief. if we do not do something about it. >> it would not be something that we have to worry about in 2014. it could happen that the markets would lose confidence. i want to drop a strong distinction between the united states economy and cover fiscal position and that of other countries we have seen around the world. some have come under pressure because of loss of confidence and their resolve and the ability to resolve these problems. we need a plan and a credible process to show that we can manage the fiscal problems.
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you have all of my sympathy. they are hard to solve. how to do it, the commission, it will be interesting to see what they come up with. a lot of good people. >> this idea that we put our heads in the san is not -- sand, is not one to work. -- is not cornyn to worgoing to. >> i also want to look at taking away some of the power from the regional reserves. we have found it to be helpful. what you think about the proposal?
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what about the proposal to limit your supervision to banks that have more than $50 billion in assets? i would like to hear your perceptions about the proposal to limit or consolidate the fed power and also to take the community banks away from the federal reserve? >> we need to play a role in the process of trying to keep our financial system stable. it would be a bad outcome if we were to lose all connection with small and medium-sized banks. it provides us with a great deal of information. it gives us a perspective on the entire financial system.
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we need to look at the entire economy. the only for monetary policies but also the ability financial services. there are many other examples. we want to have that connection with the rest of the economy. monetary policy in financial stability requires a broad spectrum. we have to maintain that connection. we want the status quo maintained so the fed has the ability to supervise and have a strong connection with small and medium-sized banks as low as big ones. >> and the regional federal reserve? >> they are our fourier's to the ground.
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-- panierears to the ground. we rely very heavily on them and been to get feedback. >> thanks. >> thanks for being here. we appreciate your testimony and your insights and your public service. i know it is monday at this time to be in the position you are in. of what -- i know it is not easy at this time to be in the position that you are in. there is a good bit to be positive about. the actions that were taken in
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the fall of 2008 when you presented the gravity of the financial situation and the recovery built in 2009 and more recent job creation bills have had a positive impact, but we still face a situation where if you look at the rate, we are 8.9% unemployment. that is lower than a lot of big states. it still means over 500,000 people out of work. if it is not a?3ç record, it is very close to a record. we have had this unfortunate confluence of misery in places as large as philadelphia where the unemployment rate has been at 10 and increased to over 11%
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recently. next to philadelphia, there are numbers higher than that in small and rural counties where they have lost employers where the unemployment rate is up to 14%. in the midst of all that, we keep hearing that small businesses have trouble accessing credit. we hear that over and over again. the dichotomy between that difficulty and then you see headlines in the new york times saying jpmorgan is up speed on the economy a post-profit. up beat -- many are not. and profit, many are not seen that in the botli


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