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tv   Key Capitol Hill Hearings  CSPAN  December 19, 2013 7:30pm-9:01pm EST

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>> i understand that this was not a crime that began under your watch of stop but you did by the company and you got wire transfers in singapore. the secret service knocked on your door. i do not know how long those wire transfers would have gone on. i do not have confidence that it would have stopped at all. my point is that i do not feel as strongly about others on this panel that behavioral marketing is evil. i believe it is a reality and frankly the only reason we have everything we have on the internet for free is because of behavioral marketing. i do not see that evil unto it felt. what i do see is in desperate need for congress to look at how consumers can get this information. what kind of transparency is there. and whether or not companies that allow wire transfers from singapore from a criminal who is
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trying to rip off identity theft, whether they should be held liable for no due diligence on trekking those wire -- checking those wire transfers. that is what we need to be looking at. some of my friends on the other side of the aisle used to be trial lawyers. i break out in a sweat. the truth is that if there were liability in this area, it would be amazing how fast people could clean up their act. unfortunately, in too many instances, there is no clear liability. you, not mean to pick on but this is a great example and you are not a fly-by-night company. if this is happening under your watch, can you imagine what is going on with companies that are not as established as yours? >> it is a huge problem. >> it is serious and significant and we need to look at it.
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>> thank you senator mccaskill. users of yourbig services is the federal government, correct? can you give us some areas in which you can identify how the federal government uses your services? of experianst users now are the department of health and human services. we operate on healthcare.gov to authenticate the identities of individuals writing up for health care. we are attempting to eliminate fraud on that site. do not want imposters acting in someone else's name. we also have a contract with the social security administration. people onlineg for online accounts, from paper- based accounts. they want people to move online to get their statements. toauthenticate individuals
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have online accounts with the social security administration. we believe that hhs could be a good user of our marketing data. we want to reach out to people to see if they are eligible for health care and try to determine how to market that process to them. they have not done that yet. the state agencies are far ahead in that regard. they are using these economic segments to reach out and inform consumers of benefits that are available to them. >> for purposes of obamacare implementation, they are using you to authenticate the people who are applying, but not to market at this moment? -is exactly right. >> that is exactly right. >> some have concerns about profiles and that they will have a long-lasting impact and put these consumers at a disadvantage. i would like to ask you to respond to that incorrect
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information. data is highly accurate. it comes from very reputable sources. we know what sources they are and we checked those sources to make sure that the integrity of that data is correct. profiles are not static. this is very important. they change. when i was a young man with young children, i used to get a lot of ads for diapers. then my sons grew up and i got solicitations and they got solicitations for college. soon, i got solicitations for home equity loans because they knew that i might want to finance my sons'college education. now i'm getting solicitations for retirement planning. and i'm getting solicitations for vacations. i marketing profile has changed with my age and my family status and my interests that i have
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expressed to data brokers. want to make one point very clear here. what health information, -- with hasth information, experian held information from consumers, but only on on opt in basis. they have to clearly opt into telling us what their ailments are and say, i am an arthritis sufferer and i want to know about new products and services coming onto the market to help maples -- help me. these are never used for health care eligibility. they are used so that consumer product companies can offer solicitations and coupons for over the counter drugs for the most part. it is always often withheld for our company. it is clear and conspicuous opt in.
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raisede are concerns that consumers should not only have the ability to the what information is collected about them for marketing purposes, but they should have the ability to correct it. what are your thoughts on that? >> on first look, that sounds like a good idea. however, as you delve deeper into it, as you look at access and correction for marketing has said ithadley is not used for eligibility purposes. you look into access for marketing data, it requires you to authenticate who is coming in. is it an imposter? data, into have that order to authenticate, you need more data. of access andce correction, it will require more data and more accurate data.
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you can have inaccuracies in marketing data. is not ast, but it precise as reported data. it is not for eligibility. it determines what ad i will receive and whether a marketer is 95% correct that is ok. it is not worth the expense to go to 100%. correctionscess to requires more data. it is therefore more expensive as well. you must always be truthful here. it goes against the idea that you are worried about with data. you will create more data on the marketing side and it will require you to be more precise. that is an issue. have one bit of information more than the imposter in order to prevent that kind of fraud in that area.
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>> a report was released on consumer privacy and 2012. it recommended that companies should provide reasonable access to consumer data that they maintain. access should be proportionate to the sensitivity of the data. the report continued that for marketing data, the cost to consumers would likely outweigh the benefits. can you comment on that costsent? what would the and benefits be to have individualized access to data? --will be said in the report obviously the report was a prelude to further discussion and potentially congress acting. at the time, we were recommending legislation. we said that we saw a difference between marketing data and, for andple, fraud mitigation identity verification products. for marketing data, it might be
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appropriate to not only give consumers access to the categories of data that is collected about them, but it allows them to suppress use of the data, but not necessarily to give them individualized access. we did not say there should be no access at all. there should be in ability to suppress use of the data. for other products, it may be more appropriate to give individualized use of the data. >> the calculation you made is that individualized efforts towards consumers would outweigh the benefits. >> yes, but for further consideration by congress. we did see a difference and we did see a distinction between marketing uses and other uses. >> thank you. >> thank you. testimony,ith your
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you reference the entities with regards to enforcement. can you describe to me what the focus of the enforcement activity should be? >> in our enforcement, we focus data that have the potential to harm consumers. most of our force that actions have been in the area of the fair credit reporting act. that is where we have our strongest tools. used for these purposes, it can be used to deny consumers important benefits like employment or credit. >> do you think the ftc has done a good job addressing what has been the number one consumer complaint for the past 13 years running? that is fighting identity theft. >> we are trying our hardest. we do not have the authority to go after the perpetrators.
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one of the main reasons that we are so strong on our data security enforcement is that we do believe it is the responsibility of companies to protect sensitive information from getting in the hands of identity thieves. identify thele to fees themselves? what happens then? thieves of the feeds -- are overseas. we investigate the companies that failed to maintain reasonable procedures to protect the data. es are neveriv ieves are the theive are never caught. recommend passage of a strong data security law that would give us a nlt --
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penalty. >> have you brought that forward before this committee? >> yes. be --r rockefeller would chairman rockefeller would be very familiar with our advocacy for data security. >> thank you very much. >> let me talk about the data broker. you had a definition of the data broker as somebody who connects the dots for marketers. is that correct? >> that is not my only definition, but it can be used. one thing i would like to point i do not know we've had enough discussion about this today. e bits of just discret information. it is not just the aggregation of these.
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what is happening is the industry and so much of our world is turning into an actuarial activity. it is a predictive analytics it isre teaching -- predictive analytics that are changing the ballgame. benign data can turn against someone in an instant if they get put into an algorithm that comes up with an either accurate or inaccurate sense of who that person is. we have no way of dealing with that at this point. am heardsoccer mom, i people tell me that they do not know necessarily how a person is branded a soccer mom. thatumber of data points are involved in designating a soccer mom and ad agency was such that they could not tell me where they got that designation from. if it is true, it is very
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complicated. if it is not true, that is a problem in itself. why cannot companies tell people where these particular labels come from? i am being told more and more it is the algorithm. it is predictability. , comedyyour definition private companies do you think can be classified -- how many private companies can be classified as this in the united states? >> more and more we are dealing with companies of all sorts that are connecting the dots. >> could it be a small business? >> i would not worry so much about a small business, but i would worry about big supermarkets. big-box stores. i would worry about a whole lot of companies. they have not talked about retail outlets and the fact that the internet is inside a store and the connecting of our online
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and off-line lives is taking place increasingly well people walk through and look at products. we should discuss how that relates to the algorithms. it mean to predictive analytics dear you in the face will you are deciding on diapers or something even more important? the experience may deal with over-the-counter drugs, but there are companies that take what people purchased over the informationsolicit about their health activities and sell them. >> what i hear you saying is what i believe, that almost any retailer could be classified. >> if they share data. >> how should the government become involved in private business in this country? >> it makes it much more complicated. i have begun to believe that at
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least is a start, there may be some useful public discussion and asking how many data point firms -- how many data points firms are allowed to buy and sell. and how they can be merged to other data points. we should not have continual flows of data appended to our lives. it is an interesting difficulty that you bring up. kroger's website and look at their privacy policies, i could not figure out head nor tail of whether they sell that thou. they use words like affiliates and subsidiaries and it is done in such a way that you did extremely difficult to tell. i know one company that sells bracelets for health, and they look at their website, and basically at one point after they say what data they can get out of the bracelet, they say that some of the data may indicate poor health.
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then the issue is, what do they do with it? we can't tell. >> thank you. let me ask ms. rich if she wants to say something? and i was trying to stay within my time limit, seriously. >> i want to add to the point you are making. one of the things that we think about at the ftc to make it a more manageable issue is to focus on the nonconsumer facing data brokers. if the issue is about transparency, at least that is where the concerns are the greatest. consumers do not even know who is invisible -- who those invisible behind-the-scenes companies are. broad, bution is so we can work on that. it is proof of a problem. pam says there are
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thousands of data brokers and the committee were forced that there are hundreds and the industry says hundreds, that is part of the problem. we do not know who all of these enemies are and we do not have a handle on it full out there's no trans rarity in this industry. -- transparency in this industry. >> would you say that any website a person goes to, they are indeed you're having information gathered that they do not want people to know about? >> for talking about the data broker issue, we would prefer to be focused on sites that are surely not transparent. we have other recommendations for consumer websites. we think there should be choices and opt out there. consumers should have some ability to prevent sales by third parties if they so choose. for this data broker problem, we would like to focus on the
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nonconsumer sites. >> thank you very much. vote at 4:30 p.m.. i would like to ask one more question. this is coming right at you dr. turow. you have been taking all kinds of notes, see you are ready? >> i would like to explore the notion that marketers are targeting pitches to the specific needs of consumers. calledake a product relying on aid. this is a grouping of consumers that are defined as follows: the single retirees with meager means and savings are barely able to make ends meet. say,escription goes on to with only a high school education at best, it has been hard to get ahead.
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medicaresured and dependent, they are pessimistic about their economic situation. my question to you is, and your testimony, you highlighted some ways that companies may be using such consumer led that do not involve prior pitches -- product pictures. who should be offered coupons, line, whatwait in thoughts come to your mind when you hear data brokers or marketing descriptions like aid to potential consumers? >> it is not unpredictable. it has been going on for years. it will get worse as the baby boomers get older. we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg here. one of the issues is also that
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as we get more individualized -- >> what do you mean by individualized? >> will have a huge generation of older people in 15 years who d with these kind of offers. the thing about that category is that it is a category. it will become anachronistic. instead it will be a particular person who can be made to the persuaded because of other characteristics that were tricked that -- that predict that. >> they will target low self- esteem? >> yes, among other things. you will not even be able to point to the category in the catalog anymore. it will be something that you are not able to easily track down.
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those people will be targeted increasingly because of the situations they are enter -- under. the same category divided into millions of people. >> what should we do about it? questionsare social and we should worry about the kind and amount of data. is a very important social discussion. at this point in time, we have not had that discussion. people do not even know this stuff is going on. people know they are being tracked, but when you ask them basic questions of how this stuff works and how they think it works -- we did a 2005 study in which americans that that the ofority -- the majority americans said that they think this information is illegal. that peoplely find see the word privacy policy on a website and they think it means
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-- we have done this five times -- they think the word privacy policy means that the site cannot share information about you without your permission. it is a great idea, but it does not work. includingve shown, ones we did a few years ago, that americans have no clue that it exists most of the time. gotggest, and that is how i to the algorithm thing, the idea for an icon that i had originally was that when you clicked on an ad that was tailored to you, you could find out who gave you the ad. you could find out why you got that particular ad at that moment. data is considered to proprietary and then people tell me that the algorithms don't help. there's nobody who wants to volunteer to give that information. >> these barcoding, don't they?
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names addresses and other stuff. >> even if you are anonymous -- a short example that happened to me. it shows the direction. i was at chicago o'hare and i had to switch planes when one of my planes was canceled. i went to the customer service place of the affiliated airline and they asked me to permit barcode in and they give me a number. on the side of the screen it said, the amount of time it will take to serve you will be based upon your priority in terms of your status with our loyalty program. fortunately, had a lot of points. i was served pretty quickly. some people were just sitting there. that meant they did not get the flight that they could have gotten. that is why take american. they preferred it to what will happen to them by virtue of the circumstances. although research has been done to put them in that situation so they can control how they maximize their product.
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>> i have something i want to say. >> go ahead. to --ant to come back before 9/11, i was on the intelligence committee. i would wake up to seven newspapers with nothing but nsa headlines. i'm here to tell you, as one of the offers of fisa, the patriot act, and all the rest of it, the nsa is so secure in its protection of privacy that he has been compared to this group that we are talking to, these data brokers. it is not even close. anybody, everybody. the nsa knows.
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they are only likely to interact .000001% for at a people to conclude need further observation. this is everybody, anybody. it is divided into race, economic activities, education. there is something i cannot prove this wrong, but there's something illegal about it. it is unfair -- illegal -- lethal about it. it is unfair. if somebody is poor or uneducated -- i come from west virginia and a lot of people face these problems. stigmatized and they have to live with it.
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the system is stacked against them. a lot of people are making a lot of money. .'m not asking for an argument the belgians went off. i'm here to say that this is a very serious situation. everyone here agrees that it has not been talked about. we have looked at it. you all have looked at it. we have to continue on this thing. the slogan of one of the companies that we reviewed in this investigation, they live by the following words. just because you can, doesn't mean you should. unfortunately, i have been thinking about this because today's testimony and the inquiries show that the industry as a whole is falling short of that and are. it appears to be following fall short of that standard. brokers saydata
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.hat we can and we will they are full of optimism. we heard about the lists generated by data brokers about disease sufferers, products that seem tailored to businesses seeking to take advantage, i hate that. i personally am are bolted by that. i have seen it in the treatment of coal miners. i have seen it in every aspect of life in the state i come from and elsewhere. i do not like it. i think it is our job as government to minimize that possibility and to bring out into sunlight what is going on. senator booker does not know this is happening to him. he does now. and he doesn't like it. senator mccaskill really nailed something that could not be responded to.
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we are going to continue on to that track. it is serious and it is a dark underside of american life which people make a lot of money and causing a lot of people to suffer even more. and then they have even lower self-esteem. that is not the america we want. this hearing is adjourned.
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>> we bring public affairs to you, putting you in the rooms with briefings and conferences, offering coverage of the u.s.
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house, as a public service of private industry. we accreted by the cable industry 34 years ago and funded by your local cable or satellite provider. now you can watch us in hd. up, richard trumka talks about jobs in the u.s. economy. look back at the life of former first lady lawrence harding. --lawrence openven house republicans a criminal investigation into --ther james clack are right lied to congress. they asked whether the national security agency collected data on millions of americans. orinsisted that they did not
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does not wittingly collect information on americans. after the documents leaked by edward snowden revealed they collects records and virtually all u.s. phone calls, he apologized for the false comment. leaseed to give the quote truthful answer he could. richard chavez said down with -- richard trumka said congress should ways the minimum wage in 2014 .
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welcome all of you. we would love to involve you on the conversation. i have my twitter machine. if you tweet your questions they will pop up here and i will ask our guest. i would like to thank the bank of america for making these conversations possible. what a year. a dozen labeled breakfast. we appreciate their support. book breakfasty of the year, we are honored to have someone who started working in the coal mines in pennsylvania for $2.96 an hour. now he is president of the afl- cio. richard trumka.
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[applause] thank you for coming in. thank you for being here for our last wreck this. we appreciate it. what do you do? prompts, roof supports. you put crossbars across. we would put those up as you invent the mining system. we would put those up. i made half a cent a more than i do. out to first reached you, you weren't in town. you were deer hunting. how did you do? >> i did well. it was a tough season. i ended up taking some nice box. 10 points, a nice buck.
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>> what are you going to make? >> some sausage, stakes. >> you told me there is one beat -- meat that is tastier than dear. -- deer. >> elk. >> you've taken some in your time? >> i have. >> the big issue, we have heard everyone talking about, the increasing income inequality in the country. and a halfnt 11 million working men and women. >> there are a number of things we can do. you have the wage stagnation that could be held. years,look back over the
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from 1946 to 1973, productivity in this country doubled, and so did wages. the interesting thing about that was that the bottom to quartiles , wages were raising faster than the people at the top. represented 35- 40% of the workforce. >> what is the figure? >> we are 12%. >> we were driving wages of the entire industry. fromgotiated wages read 73, wages have stagnated. the difference between those figures, it is gone to the top one percent because we represent 12% of the workforce. you push for full employment. for polemic comes -- it will create more demand for
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the middle class and allow them to be purchasing and create more jobs. >> full employment. >> four percent would be the goal to shoot for. >> what about the people who are underemployed? that is what hits me when i read stories. to live onare trying the jobs that they once would've thought they would get when they get out of school. whose ambitions have been curtailed. >> they are the underreported about people. they are unemployed. they don't work 40 hours. they do not make enough wages. more and more that is young people. people under 30 years old. more and more with women. those groups of americans are taking the price for it. it is becoming more of the trend rather than last. part-time jobs, some have a
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couple our time jobs to try to get by. the should be focused on underemployment. we ignore them. in this country we talk about unemployment, we do not talk about unemployed -- underemployed people. , vice president biden uses the expression fingertip feel. you get the bureaucratic side of it. you talk to the hill all the time. you are also a politician. you were reelected as president. >> my grandfather would not be happy with you calling me a politician. >> or a bureaucrat. >> worst yet. grandfathersur were called miners. >> correct. both of his brothers, my uncles, and many of my cousins were coal miners. -- your son became a
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though you. what happened to him? >> he saw the errors of my way. it was a different world. the minds of that time weren't hiring. quite frankly, i wanted to make sure he had a good education and had options open to him. had he chosen to go in the mines, i would have been proud and happy. i decided that he wanted to go into law. he practices in litigation and represents workers. >> that is your consolation. >> my consolation is whatever he does that makes him happy. it would be ok by me. .ou can't live in my shadow yesterday would he wants to do. by and large, he does what he thinks. time. has for some
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>> he was born to be a litigator, i can tell you that. was tworeat story, he years old at the time, and he had done something. i was about to discipline him. he stood with his hands on his , and he told me you can't scare me, i am in the union. i thought i had gotten through at least. >> i got sidetracked. i was about to ask you, what is the biggest story of working conditions in this country for regular americans beyond the beltway the media has missed? >> every day is a challenge to get by. those without jobs are struggling. we just did a budget deal that didn't include an extension of
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you why -- ui. >> that was the number one thing you wanted to talk about. why is that so important? >> to have 1.3 million people who are going to have no benefits as of december 31. 2014,rst six months of another 1.9 billion americans will be without any kind of income or support. these are long-term unemployed people. just -- itmore than is not about a campaign issue. it is about treating them. when it comes to helping those workers, those unemployed workers, santa is not the only one making a list this time of year. we are making our own list as well. to make sure that they don't get left behind. look what happens. they get left behind. we lose gdp.
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we lose jobs. we lose buying power. everybody gets left back. these are people that have bad luck. the plant shut down. they were laid off. i do not have an opportunity to go back to work. we really want them to make sure that they do. your question is, what is out there? it is challenging. people are struggling to find a job. those with a job or worried about losing a job. or losing benefits. those who are little older are struggling and figuring out how are we going to get by in retirement because the 401(k) generation has been a colossal bust for most americans. it has been great for investment bankers and wall street. it hasn't done so well for others. >> one thing the media, and i am speaking broadly, what is the
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thing we could do to better cover the lives and realities of working people? wages, about stagnant inequality in a real sense. >> those are concepts. >> talk about someone who struggles. if 55-year-old man who just got laid off and doesn't know where he is going to go. a 22-year-old woman who came out of school at the top of her class and cannot find a job in her chosen field. show those faces. talk about the policies that could make a difference. people on the hill they will say we have a big problem. we have a wage stagnation problem. what are you what to do about it? that is when they get abstract. there is a number policies we could do.
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instead of talking about cutting social security for instance, we should expand social security so the under 30 generation doesn't hit a train wreck. they are the lowest percentage of unemployed right now. their wages are lower than they have been. >> how could the u.s. afford to expand? >> it is nonsense. we're the richest nation on the face of the earth. we can afford to do everything we decide to do. just make it a priority. we will pay for it. of thes aren't the cause crisis or a bad economy. they are the result. >> what should the government do less of to pay to expand social security? >> they should do less loopholes. for corporations and the very rich. they should do more spending on infrastructure to make us as a country more competitive as a nation, and create jobs in the
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process. we should be increasing the minimum wage. let's talk about that for a second. if minimum wage had cap with $10.75.n, it would be if it had kept pace with productivity, it would be $18.75. if they cap pace with wage oneeases of the top percent, it will be $28 an hour. >> i think something could well happen on minimum wage next year. you look at polling. this is an issue that breaks through. what is your path to action on that? what you hope will happen? >> let me expand that out. growing trend towards populism in this country. it is not matched in the policies. there is a trend towards it.
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we see this -- we see this with the election of mayor de blasio. >> you see with the occupy movement, elizabeth warren getting elected. you see it with the way obama running the kind -- rain the campaign against romney. you see it with the pope being named man of the year. the policies haven't caught up with what americans believe. 80% of americans say you ought to increase the minimum wage. 70% think that social security should be increased. >> one of your hats is a lobbyist. you talk to capitol hill. both to get information, to persuade, to inform, to have relationships. what you think could happen on minimum wage? >> i think it could be passed. here is why.
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it would do -- it would increase toinimum wage from $7.25 inflation.index for it has to be indexed so we do not run into this problem. the tip wage.ase that is something no one talks about. the tip wage right now is $2.13 an hour. it has a been increased since 1991. by the way, three quarters of the people that work or earn tip wages are women. they get hit the hardest. it would increase take weight -- tip wages 70%. it would be a good thing. you can say, is it possible? think about this. chris christie won an election. the same electorate that elected him, by the same margin, increased the minimum wage and
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index the minimum wage in new jersey. only a policy that is not should happen, but will happen. and must happen for the good of the economy. >> do think this republican house would pass it? >> they will not have a choice. sentiment right now. they're going to take it on the chin. they are alienating latinos and immigrants. they are alienating african- americans. they are alienating catholics by going after the pope, calling the pope a marxist. >> the speaker is catholic. >> i love his remark. >> beaker boehner is catholic. -- beaker boehner is catholic. >> he is not the only one who speaks for the republican party.
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>> you have a problem. your problem is your shrinking. in 2002 -- >> my suits started looking baggy. [laughter] inyou had 13 million members 2002. in last year, you had 11.5 million members. what do you do to get more members? >> we are doing several things. the answer to that is the same thing we have to do to make the country better. we have to change the political climate, the legislative climate, and the economic climate. >> that is all. >> we can do that before an election. we are working on it. we have to organize. what we are doing is expanding out to talk about progressive friends. when you talk about the policies of progressive america together, we are the majority. we don't act like that. we have been allowed to be
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beaten in echelon. a are trying to put together coalition of progressive people. we reached out before our convention. we stood reaching out to friends and allies. past, we would come up with the solution and would say join us. let's change that. first, let's sit down and all of us try to create that solution. six months before the convention, we joined with progressive friends and allies , to the sierra club. >> women's groups? >> yes. groups.fferent we talk about problems and solutions. we decided to open up the labor
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movement, to bring the men. we form strategic partnerships .ith those that is changing the economic climate, the political climate. >> it used to be the if you are going to organize, you could go to a factory or to mine. you cannot do that anymore. one of the most fascinating things i have been researching in this conversation is the concept of fragmented workplaces. car washers, cabdrivers in outlay and new york. people who don't work in any concentrated location. how do you reach them? >> there are other groups. i should correct you on one thing. you can still organize a minor or a factory. workers.o domestic
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>> home care is huge and growing. >> we go at it very labor intensive. go and talk to them and find out your needs. bring them together and start to develop issues to work together. it is very labor intensive. we have been successful at it. 27,000 taxicab drivers in new york city. domestic workers from los ohio.s to michigan to car wash workers in new york and the west coast. we are organizing. >> you are seeing other signs of people getting interested. you are seeing fast food workers that are fed up with minimum wage and the bad treatment they get starting to come together and demand better wages. , thousandskers
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across the country coming together to try and change the walmart model, which quite frankly drives the low-wage model in the country. >> a lot of what you have been talking about is developing friends and allies as opposed to formal news paying members. a formal membership probably peaked? >> i think we are on the rise. we have more members this year than we had two years ago. labor.ffiliated the we re-affiliated, we have more members than we did a couple of years ago. the question is, is it enough? is it enough to do the changes? change the economy, change the legislative environment? the answer is no. we decided we have to reach out to progressive groups because all of us will have a difficult
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time. the entrenched power that exists in the political system through elitesnd with the because of their connections, interconnections with one another, it will be difficult for all of us coming together. that is the goal. that is the direction we are heading in. bring progressive people together. start educating about the economy. not just our members. nonunion members. start talking to candidates at the lower level. educate them on the economy. make sure that they understand how the economy works and how it doesn't work. -- makeke the lead just them understand the models that are out there. >> a couple of twitter questions coming in. -- s is from how would you ease the transition from a coal and natural gas economy to a
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renewable economy? timeu have to look at the that it happens. about 50% ofoduces the energy in the country. fuels every corner that is out there. to're not going to be able shut them down overnight, nor should you. the transition is to focus on people. let me give you an example of a way i grew up. i grew up in a small mining town. the town was built around that mine. when it went down, the town went down. there were mines like that everywhere. there was a cotton mill in north carolina, or clothing mill in maine or massachusetts. you go through that transition. it wasn't all at once. ,e have to focus on the people and transitioning them. not just giving them a fancy
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burial, but giving them away and a community away to grow back into the economy and succeed. the transition has to look at the transition of the people and the community getting back to some kind of help so you don't just pull the plug on them and say, you are on your own. dodd.is town or community >> another twitter question. should unions get an obamacare exception? >> whenever they have built the first automobile, it wasn't a perfect automobile. when we started playing baseball , it wasn't the perfect again. it has evolved. obamacare is a good start. good things in it, unintended consequences that do need to be looked at and change. we need to build on it. some classic mistakes.
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first, we exempted the pharmaceutical industry and said that medicare couldn't use its buying power to drive down prices. that needs to change. we jettison the public options so there wasn't the competition .e needed to keep prices down we made mistakes with the exchanges. we made mistakes with the system. >> a lot of mistakes. quite sure it was. it is a good start. everybody agrees that what we had wasn't working. a health-care system that didn't provide good results but spent twice as much as any other nation in the world was not a system we ought to be say let's go back to it. we needed the change. we needed to evolve.
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when we first is also security, there were problems like this. when we first of medicare and medicaid, there were problems just like this. congresso, if we had a that actually cared about america rather than creating issues, and having an issue to run against obamacare or four obamacare, we would fix the system. >> the affordable care act is an unusual problem as you know. , you can go on make corrections. everyone is afraid to reopen the affordable care act. we are stuck with a bill that needs even technical corrections to it. >> to get back to your original question, she would be exempt? it has had unintended question -- consequences that jeopardize the existence of health and retirement funds that have been the back own -- the backbone of the country. >> what exemption?
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>> we should have a tweaked so if you have an existing plan that covers five hundred thousand people, you ought to be a continuing. >> are you getting great about that now for members to can't keep their doctors? ohio -- i don't know how you would say you have to pay more right now. >> you were saying under the affordable care act there are are not going to be higher deductibles? >> i didn't say that. you said already. it hasn't kicked him. they can be paying anything already. a lot of them are. we are looking at examples of where we need to make changes. our health care plan gets treated unfairly in this. here is how. you raised this, so i will give you a full answer.
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if you are eligible for a subsidy, you get paid the subsidy. tosaid don't pay the subsidy the worker, pay it to the font that covers them, that helps them out. if you are a minimum wage worker having a tough time, and someone says, here are $3000. go by health care. don't buy shoes for the kids. i bet you will buy shoes for the kids. our employers pay into the trust fund. subsidy,to get the those low-wage workers have to come out of the trust fund, and they are deemed as not having health care for all their employees, so they have got to
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pay a penalty. $63, eventhat you pay though we got the same plan we always had. there are unintended consequences that benefit insurance companies. am i getting grief about that? sure. i want to see obamacare scrapped? absolutely not. is not the same game it was in 1800. the model t is not the same. push the hill to make the improvements because the system in this country is row can. .- is broken we paid twice as much as any
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are worse off. it has to be fixed. what you get? >> you dummy. your typical stuff. they used to call me fat. lost weight, they don't call me fat any more than -- anymore. they just call me dumb. >> how much did you lose? >> probably about 30. >> what did you do? >> exercise. my dad was a cool minor. he spent 44 years in the mail. one day i was proud of myself because i lost some weight. i had been working out really hard and i said, dad, what do you think? he said, you haven't looked behind you lately.
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>> this is amazing. you went to college and law school while you were working in a mine. >> first i started working the midnight shift in the mind. .- mine i went to school in the daytime. then i did a six-month six-month plan were a went to school for six months and went to the mine for six month. me to college. my workers sent me to law school, and i worked about six months. then i got out of law school, went to work in the legal worktment of mine workers, there several years, and the guy , he and i had a significant philosophical agreement, and i resigned and went back to work in the mine. i worked full-time, did a little
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pro bono. charged anybody for anything. i did some adoptions and things to help out people in the community and ran for office and got a let did and ran for president and got elected. >> union contracts are done behind closed doors. confrontational approach. the first time i covered you was in virginia. >> to an extent a strike can be good. it was over health care. >> we saw a little of your style there. >> i did what i had to do to protect retired workers and widows. that is what the strike was over.
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they actually believe our active members were in support of retirees and widows. calculate. imissed tried to explain. they wouldn't listen. to do away with health care. we couldn't allow that to happen. the industry depended upon the plan would have lost their health care. we took a hard line and said, you are not going to do that. it was a 15 month strike. we engaged in peaceful civil disobedience. very confrontational strike that ended up making worldwide news. everybody in europe knew.
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even russia people knew. we had tremendous support. in the state of virginia it was one of the most conservative states in the union at the time, may still be. 94% of the populace in virginia supported us in saying we should be able to maintain health care. >> let's look ahead. what do you think are the chances the democrats take the house in 2014? like 2006 when the orocrats made major gains 2010 when republicans made major gains. 2014 is an opportunity. towardsd right now is
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populism, but populism can't be a bumper sticker in october and expect the democrats to win, because it is not automatic for them. the republicans are shooting themselves in the foot, but the democrats are not capitalizing. they haven't capitalized anywhere near where they should, so if they take on issues like unemployment insurance, increasing social security, minimum wage, infrastructure, and they actually fight for them , not just so we can have an issue in auch kober, then i think they can ultimately make significant gains in october. it is not automatic. i think the american public are frustrated. one of the two parties is going to have to show they have a path forward that represents and
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benefits the average joe and jane and not just the people at the top. >> i hear what you say about the message and the issues. what are the mechanics? >> they have to bring the issues forward and actually fight for them. >> how do you want them to do that? >> in legislation. talk is cheap. don't just talk the talk. alk the walk. foot forward. fight for it. hold people accountable. i got to tell you, it is unconscionable that the people and 1.3apital left town million people are going to be out in the cold on december 31.
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>> do you worry republicans will take the senate? >> at the current rate, i don't worry about that. these guys are taking their legs off at the knees. evenrats aren't capitalizing on it. i wish they would. >> let's say there is a democratic majority in the house and senate. would you push for the nuclear on legislation. >> on the house side? look, i think you got a normal process you normally go through. when somebody becomes obstructionist i think you have to do something. look at what has happened.
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on the senate had these guys have filibustered in the last rear is more than the 30 years before that. take the three judges in the d c circuit. nina bullard, exemplary. to do something on taxes. three judges they just filibustered. that has got to stop. it has got to stop some way. i hope it stops at the ballot box. i hope the american people say, we have had enough about this. you care more about the political issue than you do about this country. they get a rules change on appointments. this point the president is
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five years in. we have more vacancies than any other president before him. can't even get normal people appointed. that is part of the strategy. if you want to make government look bad, don't put more people in. it is part of the strategy. it. >> to break through we will bring you a microphone. i want to ask if you know the mayor elect of new york. >> i do. >> what is he like? what did you think about his selection? >> i am excited by his selection. i think he will make a progressive mayor. i think you will stand up for the average worker. that stuff but more. he will focus on the little guy
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more than perhaps his predecessors. real started as a underdog. what do you make of his victory? what does it tell you about the times? >> populism works. if it is your message and what you believe in, it is what most americans believe in. >> what should other democrats learn from his selection? learn populism is isery powerful tool, and it aligned with the major thinking of the american people. them, and youto support a raise to the minimum wage, all that stuff the american people agree on. do you think trade has been good ?
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77% of americans think they are bad, yet policy will continue the same trade agreements, not because democracy work. worked they would be completely gone. is the real issue. what happens after they run on populism? president obama ran a populist campaign in many ways against mitt romney. >> you are disappointed in president obama? >> you have to continue and fight for these policies after election day. that is why people are so frustrated. talk is cheap. you have to walk the walk. i think he will follow through. we are going to try to make sure more politicians follow through. >> you feel president obama hasn't? do i think president obama could have done more?
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yes, but let's look at the playing field he has been dealt. it's not like he has a utopian laying field, and we have a house -- playing field, and we have a house and senate saying, let's work together. they have done everything they can to stymie what he stood for. they defy the will of the american people. itt kind of democracy is when you defy the will of the people you're there to represent? it is minimum wage, social security, infrastructure, job creation, immigration therm, trade policy, minorities support those, yet the minority position prevails because of a system awash with money. we have a question? >> good morning. i am in alliance for justice.
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you spend a lot of time talking about the damage done by congress. what kind of harm do you think has been done to everyday americans by the supreme court? >> i think the supreme court has done lasting damage to the system of democracy. this supreme court equates money with free speech. let's think about it. do you actually believe washington and jefferson were sitting around the table one day and jefferson says, you know, george, i have twice as much money as you. therefore, i should have twice as much free speech as you? i can't fathom that, yet this supreme court has been very fond and accommodating to corporate america.
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damage todone lasting the system. under their rules, you can hardly regulate the flow of money in the political system. it is difficult to see away without a constitutional change, so they have done lasting damage to it, and i hope we will see some change. is going tohat happen? i am not going to bet the ranch on it. >> good morning. my name is mark. executive director of teaching. in an era where it would seem union membership would grow very was the is not. mentality out there that is holding it back -- what is the mentality that is holding it back, and how do you intend on battling it? >> you don't have to take my word for this.
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there is an international study, and they think the labor laws in this country are woeful. you have significant intimidation. there are between 25000 and 30,000 workers who get filed -- fired illegally each year for trying to organize. inc. about it. -- think about it. you are in a job. you want to organize because you are an ump lawyer. you think you aren't getting enough benefits. organize so you have a voice. i want to get back to the positive reasons. meeting. you into an you have to sit in a room like this. i get to tell you what i am going to do if you organize. plan tong to move this china if you organize.
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fire people, a couple of ringleaders. they put heads on the wall, and everybody goes, these guys are serious. >> tell us the positive reasons. >> if you look at institutions that have empowered workers by giving them more say on a job, those systems are longest lasting and most effective when there is a union, because when you come to, when an employer and group of evil come together, if you are of relatively -- group of people come together, if you are of relatively equal power, you make good decisions. my kid comes to me and says, i want a bicycle. i say no and walk off. same day my wife comes to me and says, i want a new car. i say, let's sit down and talk about it. i like to think we are
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a relatively equal power. that's what happens. you make better decisions when you are of relatively equal power. workers. give that to look at what ford has done. look at the coal industry. i joined together with a guy in alabama, and we put together a system that empowered workers. . the number went up of injuries went down. that's one of the great reasons for having a union. workers to actually achieve fullest capability. >> i am going to sneak in one
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more twitter question. what does it mean that three industrial unions have come out against them? and whenfollow suit, will you decide? not done yet. i want to look at what is in there. everybody knows it hasn't worked. most economists say the nasa model is lower weight -- the model is lower wages for middle- class workers. we ought to look at the different model. can it be amended? can we get a different type of system and a different model? i hope so. if it is modeled after nafta, it is a failed model, so we will the sake. i hope for of the country it changes, and i hope for american workers we get it right for a change.
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you have one other problem. viewers are six and eight. >> it is raking my heart. -- breaking my heart. i was out hunting, and i looked at the sun. just a low the trees, and i thought, we have a lot in common. is the same with the steelers. i think they need to change systems. luck, butof had bad if they are zero and 12, i am still a steelers fan. >> i want to thank the bank of america, your colleagues for this fantastic series, bank all of you, thank our politico colleagues -- the bank all of you, thank our politico colleagues for making this
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possible. happy holidays, and i want to thank you for a fantastic conversation. [applause] >> the senate is in session right now holding another all nighter tonight. we see the republican senators on the floor. senate majority leader harry reid has said the debate will continue through saturday to clear for nominations, including janet yellen. republicans said they were going to let members leave town for the holiday break if they want to and allow democrats to vote on confirming nominees on their own. at the same time republicans say they will not shorten the time for debate on the nominees. if all the debate time is used,
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a passage should happened at about 11:15 eastern time. you can see all of our synod coverage live on c-span -- all of our c senate coverage live on c-span 2. the secretary said the u.s. would continue to aid the philippines with recovery efforts after typhoon haiyan. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2013] >> good afternoon. to exchange views on a wide variety of topics. sympathiesto express
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in the wake of the typhoon. the united states was able to provide assistance and relief in the immediate aftermath of the storm, and we continue to stand with the philippines as they rebuild. in addition, the united states government response, we are pleased with the fast, flexible response we have seen from the world they and the asia development and. we look forward to working with the banks to move forward and as theyhe population rebuild. today we discussed the impact for the u.s.. leadership is helping the philippines. they are making great strides, including fighting corruption the filipino economy, which is one of the fastest growing in the region. during the first term of the
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obama administration, we laid out a decision based on america's stake in a prosperous region. we continue to build on those commitments to expand trade, strengthen regional institutions, and deepen our engagement with the emerging powers of the region. the united states bilateral relationship with the philippines is an important one in the region and highlighted by the partnership. in line with our commitment to this relationship, the u.s. treasury is providing a robust row gram to support implementation of philippine and cannot -- program to support implementation of philippine progress. it was a pleasure meeting with the secretary, and i look forward to working together.
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>> thank you, secretary. thank you for giving me the opportunity. i am pleased to be here at this time for the outlook of the u.s. economy. a strong u.s. economy is good for the global economy. to the an assurance commitment to stability and the global financial landscape and ushering in an era of shared prosperity. the u.s. government has been a governancey in good and productivity. our program and the partnership newssisting in exploring frontiers to sustain economic gains. good governance is good economics.
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in three and a half years we have proven that, averaging growth of 6.3%, and the support of the u.s. administration, not only technical but furthering of bilateral relations is important in sustaining that. we are deeply thankful of the assistance suspended by the u.s. government to the victims of typhoon haiyan or yolanda. that globale-opener climate change is for real. excuse me. and that the impact of global climate exchange and economic development is something we must we needul of and that to work on creative solutions to .trengthen our communities
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we need to place climate change at the front and center of our social contract to fight poverty . for this, we stand ready to work with the u.s. government in developing projects for sustainable development. we need to take drastic measures to make sure we can help our country. thephilippines is at forefront of disasters relating to climate change. of the five strongest typhoons in our history, three have hit us in the last three years, and i think it is important if we are to maintain fiscal responsibility we make sure we measures to make sure we deal with the fiscal impact of future disasters.
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in this we are turning a new , and i would like to thank secretary lou for his time, and i look forward to working with as we try and work on a new instrument the community can work on so the sharing of financial risks for climate change can be done on a more formal basis. thank you. >> on our next washington journal, we will talk to the former congressman and white house budget director to weigh in on the budget deal passed by the house and senate. then a look ahead at the congressional agenda for 2014
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plus the 2016 elections. martin of the center for american progress joins us. and then how students score against international peers in math and science. our guest is from the national association for education statistics. we will also take calls and tweets. each morning at 7:00 eastern >> it was the first election in which women could vote. flarns harding played a big ole. then, u.s.-brazil relations. then a pentagon briefing with defense secretary chuck hagel.

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