Skip to main content

tv   Washington Journal  CSPAN  December 24, 2013 7:00am-10:01am EST

7:00 am
president of the southern evangelical seminary. steven topper off of the federal trade commission discusses the target credit card security breach and ways to protect yourself from security theft. ♪ ♪ good morning and welcome to "washington journal," december 24, 2013. president obama has signed up for a bronze plan on people piled onto the website trying to meet the deadline to log on & on for health insurance before january 1. delayed ittration for 24 hours, you have until midnight tonight. and they say leaker edward nsa leaker edward
7:01 am
snowden telling "the washington post" that his mission is accomplished. what are your thoughts on what mr. snowden had to say? republicans, (202) 585-3881. .emocrats, (202) 585-3880 independence and all others, (202) 585-3882. ord us a tweet @cspanwj e-mail us. the front page of "the washington post" has the conducted by a reporter who went to moscow for the interview. edward snowden says i already won. mission is accomplished. sitting down with edward snowden for 14 hours over two days, nonstop interviewing. edward snowden called himself a
7:02 am
russian house cat. never leaving his place in asylum from seeks the u.s. and stays in russia. tweetedhington post" several quotes. snowden saying i wanted to give society a chance to determine if it should change itself. he tweeted -- "the washington post" tweeted this. i wanted the public to have a say. post," i defected from the government to the public. also, edward snowden saying this. he is working to improve bnsf. -- the nsa. i am still working for the nsa right now.
7:03 am
they are the ones who do not realize it. "theront page of washington post. we want to get your thoughts on what edward snowden is saying. he said his mission has been a published. -- has been accomplished. "the washington post" says that during this interview, snowden curtains or step outside. russia granted him temporary asylum on august 1. he remains a target of the intelligence service. what do you think about this? republicans, (202) 585-3881. democrats, (202) 585-3880. independents and all others, (202) 585-3882. he notes in "the washington post post what article -- "the washington post" article, u.s.
7:04 am
district judge richard leon described the nsa's capabilities as almost orwellian. a delegation of executives from telephone companies and internet firms told president obama that the intrusionos the -- was a threat. a panel appointed by obama recommended restrictions on the nsa. paul, new york, independent caller. has edward snowden won? caller: he thinks that he has won. i think the way you have to view edward snowden is whether or not you think we are a nation at war. if you think we are at war, edward snowden has helped the enemy.
7:05 am
in terms of understanding our surveillance methodology. we are atnot think war, there is a way of looking at the situation where he has done something to benefit. i think we are a nation at war, idea mr. snowden as someone who has helped the enemy to understand our surveillance techniques. formerlenn greenwald, reporter for "the guardian," who first disclosed the documents by snowden, tweeted this. tonic to lots a of this conceptions from all corners of the world. that is glenn greenwald. diane, republican caller. hi, i think snowden did a surface. government is not transparent. we need to know what is going on. host: diane, are you still
7:06 am
there? what do you think should be done, what should congress do? caller: he should come back here and go to trial. fairly, whichone is going to be difficult. people pouncing on this man. i want to know what is going on, i do not care what is going on, i want to know. tweetedane, "the hill" this, the house intelligence chairman said on one of the sunday shows that snowden committed treason. caller: i disagree. host: why> caller: this government is not transparent, which it promised to be. i want to know what is going on. i like to know facts. i would like both sides to be presented so i can get facts, which is impossible with this precedent.
7:07 am
host: -- with this president. been watching hearings and tuning into what congress is saying? caller: i am very frustrated with our government. day, i television all watched all news to see the lies that are spread. the same should do thing and then check references on youtube and see what is going on. people are very ignorant. obama on friday before he left for vacation said he will be addressing the nsa surveillance leaks and the recommendations that were made by his five-member task force in january. senator patrick leahy tweeted this yesterday. january 14 judiciary committee hearing with all five nsa review board members.
7:08 am
forceve of obama's task will be appearing before the senate judiciary committee. mississippi, democratic caller. what is the name of your town? caller: mccall creek. i believe snowden showed the under the gun -- i believe snowden should be under the gun, they should kill him. he is a traitor. i do not believe in violence. that is something that i believe nobody should have ever done. giving all our secrets away. ain't freesia, he like he was here. he did something that nobody, nobody in this country should
7:09 am
do. gelman tweeted this about his interview. coworkers, "what do you think the public would do?" beginning in october 2012, edward snowden said he brought his misgivings to two superiors in the nsa technology center and two more in the base in hawaii. snowden said he opened the data maps tool, which used heat to depict volume of data. his colleagues were astonished to learn we are collecting more on americans than we are on russians in russia. many of them were troubled and several said they did not want to know anymore. june, wisconsin, independent
7:10 am
caller. edward snowden says he won. just proved mye point. i have been saying it all along. treasonous, he was at war with the united states of america. theseeed to start vetting contractors a lot closer. he is not a hero. it is a shame, he could have gone to his congressman, he did not have to go to russia, of all places. example of an american. host: june, let me get your reaction to what gellman reports. snowden noted matter-of-factly that standard form 312, responding to critics who say he broke the oath of secrecy. the classified
7:11 am
information nondisclosure agreement is a civil contract. he pledged elsewhere. the oath is not an oath of secrecy, he said. that is an oath to the constitution. that is the oath that i kept that key alexander and james clapper did not. people who accuse him of disloyalty mistake his purpose. i am not trying to bring down the nsa, i am working to improve it. that is one of the quotes. saying he is working for the nsa they just don't realize it. caller: i think he is wonderful laying with words. words.erful playing with he thinks we are as stupid as he played us to be. it is a shame. this man is totally anti-american.
7:12 am
and he is lucky that he is an american. in russia, it if he had pulled this, he would be dead already. host: frank, texas, replica caller. let's go to michael. independent caller. caller: good morning. this is quite a discussion. it is intriguing. on one hand, truth has become capitalhortage in our and in the way this government is running. we do need to have the truth. i believe the guy is going about it in the wrong way. he is in a foreign country. believe me, china and russia -- there are so many more documents that are still to be seen and exposed.
7:13 am
believe that actually -- yes, he has won. narrowly. he isder this man gets, quite young and should never have had this type of clearance. i think he is going to regret this. he is going to have to come back to this country and be held accountable. caller: rand paul tweeted this -- host: rand paul tweeted this. nsa, i need more than 140 characters. , the government is corrupt, the gop did most of the damage under the bush patriot act. fishinsam says snowden needs to let the rest out. florida, democratic caller. caller: how are you?
7:14 am
i love what he did. host: i am going to put you on hold, turned the television down so we do not get the feedback. fairfield, ohio. go ahead. how are you today? host: go ahead. caller: i wanted to say that i think snowden is totally wrong for what he did. this is a country of freedom. he is saying he use his constitutional right, he could have used them here. he could have spoken out. he could have opened eyes for the public. instead of running away. is disloyal to his country.
7:15 am
all of the and to responsibilities he had. he lost. host: ok. he should come back, then what happens? caller: he should come back and face the law. he is using all his abilities to discuss that he has won. he could win in court if he thinks he won. host: mississippi, independent caller. caller: hello. good morning. host: what do you think i'm edward snowden says he won. caller: i think it is a win-win. at the same time, i think he could have handled it differently. as could everybody. i think he is doing a good job at displaying some of the
7:16 am
transparency that we would all like to see in our government. i havepeak for myself, lost faith in many of the individuals in our government. i like to keep faith in our government as a whole. personal gain is superseding the interest of the american people. host: ok. all right, brandon. we will keep taking your thoughts on this interview with " over 14ington post, hours nonstop. gellman had the exclusive and travel to washington. he said edward snowden was relaxed over today's of unbroken conversation fueled by burgers, pasta, and russian pastry. you can send us a tweet as well, @cspanwj.
7:17 am
you can go to or e-mail us. "the washington post" if you go or inside then -- newspaper -- you can see the six months of revelations on the nsa from edward snowden. has been forced to respond to unprecedented disclosures about its surveillance programs. those programs have been assailed as a violation of privacy rights by critics and defend it as critical to national security by intelligence officials. you can go through this online days the paper and see the -- the date of when this information was put out by edward snowden and what exactly -- what the public was made aware of. for example, the black budget, 178 page budget summary for the national intelligence program. that is information that was not
7:18 am
made public in the past. you can searche, through everything that has been revealed so far by edward snowden. manysaying that he has thousands of more documents to put out. anthony, new york, democratic caller. caller: the morning, greta. happy holidays to you. happy holidays to mr. swain and mr. lamb. i miss them. used to spend christmas with us. there is a difference between being able to call you. it was an extremely enjoyable time spent with both of them. mr. swain and mr. lamb was on fridays. snowden is a
7:19 am
whistleblower. he definitely deserves immunity from any charges against him. all the people, the naysayers that say he was treasonous. they are so ill-informed. his supervisors had tried to find channels to bring this to life. it is unconstitutional and a violation of the constitution that trumps all other activities. the patriot act and the nsa and what they have been doing. i believe this has been going on prior to 9/11. the biggest more importantly, there was a ands action lawsuit by at&t election before obama came to office. as soon as obama came into power, his first act as president was to squash that immunity toranting all the telecom industry that had been spying on americans.
7:20 am
everybody says he should have done this in a proper manner. they tried. people have tried. they were squashed. barack obama was supposedly a constitutional law scholar. that was his teaching. i wonder what he was teaching his students. it is hideous with the americans -- what america has come to. when i was a kid this is what we were taught to stand against. this is something you would expect in russia. i wish you a happy holiday. thank you. oft: what do you make national security adviser susan rice telling "60 minutes" on sunday that he should not be granted amnesty? caller: the fox is minding the henhouse. if someone exposes them doing something evil, they are protecting their own. the government defines itself by selling defense.
7:21 am
-- there is no war. onewhole 9/11 stuff was action by a group of individuals that we still don't know the truth about who was behind it. i do not think these people are to be trusted. the ruling elite in this country morphed into something. they say you become what you resist. we resisted the soviets in the cold war. they were as evil as we have made them out to be. we have become worse. host: representative david schweikert tweeted this. of theacting director cia and a member of obama's task force said the nsa should expand to e-mails. this is mikerel -- whenl, who took over
7:22 am
general petraeus step down. on one of the sunday shows, said the nsa should expand data collection to include e-mails and that that could prevent the next 9/11. david -- david schweikert tweeting that with the hashtag #nothanks. edward snowden telling "the washington post" i won. what do you think about those comments? i want to show you nasa tv live. showing a christmas eve spacewalks. we will tune in and listen to a little bit of this. [video clip] [no audio]
7:23 am
host: this is a live stream of nasa tv. mission control. nasa has planned a christmas eve spacewalk at the international space station to repair work on a faulty cooling line. the astronauts working there. this is live on nasa tv. we will show you a little bit more coming up after today's "washington journal." for all of topic you. edward snowden telling "the washington post" that he won. duty, new york, republican caller. caller: thank you for c-span. snowden is adward
7:24 am
hero. he let the public know what our government is doing to us. the president has made changes for the nsa so they won't have our phone records and they will be held by the phone companies. i hope that he is able to come home and be a free man. host: before you go, i want your reaction to what gellman reports in "the washington post." in july, a four-star military officer known for his even keel meetingthrough one before walking away, he pointed a finger. "we did not have another 9/11 because intelligence enabled were fighters to find the enemy. until you have had to bury your people, you do not have a clue." caller: i still feel that we
7:25 am
have the right to know what they were doing with our information. they can find out in other ways. host: ok. mark, florida, democratic caller. caller: hi, greta. host: did i get it right? caller: iocala, central florida. i am a former u.s. marine and i have worked in the state department. i have a secret clearance. i have a different take. this young guy has only revealed information awareness, which 's totalk to bush 41 information awareness, now referred to as the patriot act. all this guy did was revealed to americans what occurred under the last bush administration, total information
7:26 am
which is now the patriot act. americans act like they are upset about something they were not upset about when it was passed after 9/11. the thing i would say about edward snowden specifically, he worked at one time for the national security agency in physical security. he got his way into the building. contractorbeing a for booz allen hamilton holding booz allen hamilton holding is owned by george bush senior's family. what snowden is doing is trying not only the nsa look making -- it is giving the country a chance to privatize and let the corporations take over our credit security.
7:27 am
i think it is the wrong direction for any aspect of public services in the u.s. host: stay on the line. in opinion piece for "the wall air ofjournal," the unreality in nsa reform. he said the task force found no official mafia sounds -- no o fficial malfeasance, the recommended changes anyway. they should be required to go to each individual require to run s against the databases that are inconsistently arranged . what if this arrangement "seriously undermines the effectiveness of the program."
7:28 am
the panel suggests the government might authorize a private organization to collect and store metadata. what do you think? caller: listening to you explaining that, what jumps to my mind is echelon. echelon has been keeping track of information. what is required. people are under the impression that you have to have a warrant to each other on americans. we have been eased dropping -- eavesdropping for a long time. a lot of americans are told what to think. have a great morning. piece in "thea journal."t
7:29 am
post," thehington year of snowden. pope to be the person of the year. snowden's decision to leak information concerning some of the nsa's programs has done more to embarrass officials, it has galvanized efforts to protect what little privacy we have left. that is eugene robinson in "the washington post." in "theincus' piece washington post." he says this about what the review board has recommended. under one of its proposals, nsa should have to get a court order for every time they went to kerry -- want to query this data, not operate under a blanket court order. according to michael morrell.
7:30 am
ofcould lead to four days delay. judge leon, who decided that the nsa collection is probably unconstitutional is quoted as saying analyzing the metadata without prior judicial approval. thisthat kind of backing, may gain votes in congress not just from critics of the program but also from some of its supporters. be speakingama will about these recommendations in january. as we told you earlier, senate judiciary chairman patrick leahy 22 that out on december he plans to hold hearings on all five members of obama's nsa review board. let's go back to ford, democratic caller. caller: hello.
7:31 am
snowden is a hero. host: why> caller: at least he did something right. washington is broken. there is too much money in politics. they are running the country. nobody has really done a good job with term limits -- we need term limits for all of them. these guys get up there and they stay up forever and they just ruin the country. host: anthony, independent caller. caller: good morning. i agree with mark. there are thousands of people that have security clearances in this country. we see the same information snowden has seen for years. it is nothing new. for all these people who think
7:32 am
he is a hero, he is not. all he did was betrayed this country. the things people have seen for years, half of the citizens knew what was going on they would not sleep. if you think he is a hero, you are naïve. let us treate and him like a winner. host: can you tell us what you do here? caller: no, i cannot. host: you work for the government? caller: independent contractor. host: from what you have seen, you feel confident these programs are working. caller: yes, they are. i know that for a fact. you think about critics who say why doesn't the nsa tell us more about the successes they have had? caller: the problem is -- they cannot tell you. the thing about it, all these know, want to -- if you
7:33 am
what would you do? nothing. everything they have done has not hurt one american. not one. host: anthony here in washington dc. get your thoughts on edward snowden's interview with "the washington post," saying his mission has been a complex. in other news, the federal workforce will get a 1% pay raise. president obama signed an executive order authorizing a raise, ending a four-year freeze and salary rate. front page of "the washington times," president obama signing up for a bronze plan on another day, another delay for the health care. the deadline to sign up and get
7:34 am
enrolled before january 1, it was supposed to be yesterday, december 23. they extended it by 24 hours. people have until midnight tonight to get enrolled on we saw numbers jump up because in on theed to get website. a new cnn poll found the support is ate law an all-time low of 35%. on the front page of "the washington times." reporting that president obama's general is surgeon connected to doctors for obama in 2008. withroup is now connected the center for american progress, a liberal think tank that has been successful in
7:35 am
injecting its alumni into this administration. on the front page of "the washington times." also in the papers. bid toge has rejected a halt gay marriage in utah. it is seen as a sign of things to come for other states. that is also in "the washington times." bill, pennsylvania, republican caller. what are your thoughts on edward snowden? caller: hi, greta. happy holidays. guy isghts are that this like paul regier. revere.ish -- paul the british are coming, the british are coming. it is not the british, it is big brother. your last caller said they have to do this. why would they tell us what they are doing?
7:36 am
big brother knows what is best, we do not have to understand why big brother is doing what big brother is doing. they brother is there to help. the other thing, the guy from themarines called and said justification for them doing this is that they have been for a long this is not a revelation, this is not new that they are spying on us. they have been spying for a long time. that is not a justification. if i am not mistaken, the revolutionary war. the requirement for specific because the british would issue general warrants that allowed them to search and seize anything they wanted. that is where we are now, it is very sad. the reason snowden is such a hero and a patriot is he truly is announcing what the midnight ride of paul revere.
7:37 am
big brother is here. we have to fight them. it is sad. when you cross big brother, he puts his bayonet through your gut. that is the way it is. host: yolanda, texas, democratic caller. caller: good morning. i am calling and reiterating mark from florida's call. spying, whether the nsa, cia, fbi, it has been going on for decades. within ourselves, but for our safety. whatever needs to be done should be done to keep us safe. we should agree on that. i am not sure, exactly what he won. he said he already won. he is a cat in a
7:38 am
russian house, a russian house cat. he is playing in a house with a backyard of bulldogs. host: yesterday, president obama -- the new homeland security secretary, jeh johnson, was sworn in. senator tom carper, a defender of him on the senate floor during his confirmation battle tweeted this. johnsonlations to jeh and the deputy of homeland security. they will both do great. other national security news, here is "the washington times," the military pension cuts that were part of the two-year budget likely.anges civiliangon's top
7:39 am
is facing a test of wills with veterans groups, which oppose cuts. "the new york times" reporting that the u.s. has soft anened its deadline to keep troops in afghanistan. the obama administration backing away from a december 31 deadline for securing a deal to keep american troops in afghanistan beyond 2014. it is standing by its warning that a total military withdrawal is still possible if delays continue. -- "the washington post" reports on this story. the headline is new records show nelsonrael had trained mandela. according to a 1962 memo, israel's archives has published a letter from its spy agency claiming that it unknowingly offered paramilitary training to
7:40 am
a young nelson mandela. along with documents illustrating sympathy for the anti-apartheid struggle in the 1960's. cliff, connecticut, independent caller. caller: hi, greta. thank you for c-span. happy holidays. i think edward snowden is a hero. he should have been person of the year instead of the pope. what is going on now is outrageous. obama came into office and he was going to be something different than george bush. all he really did was continue to double down on bush's policies and spying. this is a big disappointment. right.ll lewis, pennsylvania, democratic caller. caller: good morning, happy holidays. whent to say, in a way, you have a messed up system, sometimes you need to look deep
7:41 am
in it but you do not need to expose yourself to anarchy. man went over there, he had a chance to voice his opinion freely just like i do. he chose to take the wrong way out. haseeded to be done, it been going on for years, someone needed to expose it. it was not done properly. he should come home and face up. where it willnt be detrimental to our security. happy holidays. host: west virginia, independent caller. caller: hi, merry christmas. for snowden. what the nsa does is like a switchboard.
7:42 am
is going to have to receive it only for breaching -- receive a penalty for breaching contract. i hope it is not a stiff penalty that the other side roots for. calling a visit to russia being a house cat. he is afraid for his life and his liberty. for making the public aware. and for willing to take the penalty, you can do anything. hope they see him as a whistleblower and he does not get much reprimand and much penalty for doing what he has done for the people and for their fourth amendment right. merry christmas, obama. you might be interested in what the senate intelligence chairwoman had to say, dianne feinstein, democrat of california. here is a tweet from her after the district judge in d.c.
7:43 am
decided that the metadata collection is possibly unconstitutional. cantweeted only scotus settle the question of the constitutionality of the nsa call records program. you can read her statement there. also part of that two-year budget deal was debate over to extend not unemployment benefits. democrats said they wanted it included. it did not make it into the final deal. "the washington times" has this headline. inocrats see a campaign test jobless benefits extension. million people will lose these benefits on saturday when they expire. "the washington post" reports that john boehner told reporters earlier this month that the white house did not even ask about including unemployment benefits in the budget deal
7:44 am
until the last minute. harry reid has promised this will get a vote on the senate floor when they return in january. that is the debate that will be coming up. let's go to roger in ohio, democratic caller. go ahead. to say -- ii wanted do not know about snowden to the point -- if this had been a black man and he did something like this. went to another country and put our secrets out. they would be ready to hang him. isfar as i am concerned, he a whistleblower. what he did, letting people know what we do to keep this country safe, nobody has any business knowing. if you are doing so much that you are scared of talking on your phone, don't do it. host: all right. we will leave it there on this christmas eve. at next, talking about religion
7:45 am
and politics and public life with dr. richard land, president of the southern evangelical seminary, and reverend barry united forricans separation of church and state. later, the agency charged with investigating identity theft. the federal trade commission to talk about that. we will be right back. ♪ >> if you are a middle or high school student, c-span's video competition wants to know what the most important issue congress should address. make a video and include c-span programming for your chance to
7:46 am
win $5,000. with $100,000 in total prizes. the deadline is january 20. know, the guys that were against the constitution or the religious conservatives of the day, the anti-federalists. they included patrick henry, he came along eventually. they wanted religious tests for officeholding. the founders were the cosmopolitans. most of them were bible believing christians. why did they take the approach they did and come down where madison came down? they believe that no faith including their own was beyond faction. madison's prescription was a multiplicity of sects. >> there have been important developments in the law over the last couple of decades in terms of government funding and religious institutions.
7:47 am
i would say that there were some real issues to work through and to figure out. the rules that govern this area during the clinton years -- the early clinton years were different. they changed over time. some people think that was a good thing. some people think that was bad. there are some important issues that people fight about and fight about with some wedges and the disagreements. on c-span.s day current and former heads of the white house faith taste offices on the separation of church and state. on c-span2's book tv. an account of the great war. c-span3, from 1957, bob hope travels across the pacific for his uso tour of southeast asia. including stops in vietnam. continues. journal"
7:48 am
host: we are back. our conversation for the next hour is about the role of religion and politics and public life. joining us from nashville is dr. richard land, president of the southern evangelical seminary. here in studio with me is executivearry lynn, director of americans united for separation of church and state. you for coming in on christmas eve. i appreciate your time. guest: thank you. let me begind, about where in the constitution it says that there is a separation of church and state. how do you read that? not in the phrase is constitution. we have the first amendment, baptists are in large part responsible for that amendment being there. it says, among other things, congress shall make no law affecting the establishment of religion nor interfering with
7:49 am
the free exercise thereof. the phrase "separation of church and state," or a wall of separation comes from a letter that thomas jefferson as president road to the baptists of danbury, connecticut. they were being discriminated against by a state church and connecticut. all the restrictions in the first amendment are on the government. the government cannot establish a religion and the government cannot interfere with the free exercise of religion. you and i cannot violate the first amendment, only the government can do that. host: reverend lynn? guest: no argument about that. i am glad richard believes and still believes and still believe there is a separation of church and state. years, the u.s. supreme court has been arguing about its specific meaning. i think richard and i are not
7:50 am
quite that old, we have only been arguing for the last 25 years. shallrase is "congress make no law respecting an establishment of religion. congress had the opportunity to pass a piece of language saying they would not establish a national religion. they rejected that because it was too narrow. this is very broad and it covers, in my judgment, ought to do what john kennedy in 1960 said it should establish. an america where the separation of church and state with absolute. where politicians would not follow specific religious doctrines in order to govern. they would look to the constitution. preachers would not tell their congregation for him to vote. -- for whom to vote. dependus entities would
7:51 am
on their own contributions, not the funds of government. host: is it subject to debate and interpretation? dr. land? guest: of course. one other thing that is overlooked in the constitution is that we do have article six. religious test for office. at the time that was passed, many of our state government had religion tests to serve in public office. the federal constitution specifically rejected that. as a baptist, i am glad they did. a person should not have to espouse a certain faith to be in office and should not be disqualified from office because they do not have a certain faith. that should be left entirely up to the voters. and whether or not a candidate once to share his faith or whether his faith is important to him should be up to him. and should not be a question of legality.
7:52 am
i think people who are running for office, if religion is important to them -- i robert joseph lieberman talking about the fact that you cannot understand who i am -- i liebermanoseph talking about the fact that you cannot understand who i am in less you understand the fact that i am an observeant jew. if voters want to take that into account, they can. when bill bradley ran, he said it is a private matter. that is within his right. the voters can decide whether that is the kind of senator or president they want. we have a separation between the government and religion. and we showed. as far as i'm concerned, i will use an athletic analogy. the government should not be a cheerleader for religion. the government should not be a coach for religion. the government should not be a sponsor for religion. the government should not be a
7:53 am
sensor or suppressor of religion. the government should be an umpire. the government just make sure everybody plays fair. that the majority is not silence by the minority. and the minority is not silenced by the majority. everyone gets their turn at bat. guest: it is hard to disagree with the basic answer polls. it is in the nuances and the it isritty details -- hard to disagree with the basic principles. it is in the nuances and the nitty-gritty details. they go all the way to the supreme court. there are still states that have prohibitions against atheists holding public office. i have a friend in south carolina who ran for a minor political office and was told he could not run because he is an atheist. he challenged the law. in the older days, in the 1940's and 1950's, the baptists would
7:54 am
have said amen to that. no religious test means no religious test. and if you have no religion, you can still be a first-class citizen in america. host: dr. land, do you want to respond? southernthink most baptists would still say that. they probably would not go for the atheist, but the atheist has a right to run for public office. as baptists, we supported in 1962 and 1963 the supreme court decisions on prayer in schools. we have since been concerned about what justice goldberg was concerned about. justice goldberg, in his concurring opinion in the 1963 should -- thiswe decision does not mean that there should be a hostility to religious expression by individuals in public schools. if it were to be interpreted that way, it would be just as
7:55 am
unconstitutional as but we have just rolled against -- as what against.just ruled when i was on the ethics commission, we had to deal with third and fourth graders. when the teachers said bring something to share, if a broad bible stories, they were told they could not talk about that because -- if they broad bible bibles -- if they brought stories, they were told they could not talk about it because it was separation of church and state. hear a lot about that. people will say there is a war on christmas. they cap allows children to wear green and red clothing -- they cannot allow children to wear green and red clothing. what wasot at all
7:56 am
said. some of the low hanging fruit in the news industry does not even bother to go to the school and find out what really happened. did the school remove all religious references from a traditional christmas song? or was that done as part of a play written by someone else. comethese controversies up, it costs money for public relations people to go to these school districts and try to correct the record. most of this, i will not say no teacher has ever made a mistake and violated a young person's right. i remember a case in virginia. somebody was told she could not read the bible on a public school bus. of course you can read a bible. you can read stephen king, you can read anything. when it comes to classroom activities, it is a much closer question. there is no systematic, if any, attack on christian students in america's public schools. we are neutral.
7:57 am
neutrality is the principle when it comes to religion and government in public spaces with public money. host: let me show the two of you ad putent ad -- a recent together by mark pryor of arkansas, up for reelection in 2014. here is a recent ad. [video clip] >> i am not ashamed to say that i believe in god and in his word. the bible teaches us nobody has all the answers, only god does. neither political party is always right. this is my conference, northstar. -- my north star. and guidanceomfort to do what is right for arkansas. i am mark pryor, this is who i am in what i believe. host: reverend lynn, appropriate? completely inappropriate.
7:58 am
this is a terrible way to start a campaign. trying to interject religion in multiple ways. we do not look to holy scripture to make outlook policy in washington or in any state capital. to theld be looking commonly shared values of the constitution. the really -- there are really good ones there. like anyone's holy scripture, including the bible, is a kind of ethical road map through all of the issues. it is inconceivable to me that senator pryor or any of his colleagues could decide policy on syria, edward snowden, obamacare, based on some kind of facts he would gain from his christian bible. and then apply them to the complexities of this life. that is not what the bible is. he is perfectly in his right to talk about his belief in jesus christ. when he seems to tie that as a guide to its public policymaking, he is making a
7:59 am
very big mistake. constitutionally and personally. host: dr. land? guest: it is a totally appropriate ad. he is running for senate and was the people of arkansas to know who he is. he feels that in order to do that he needs to explain his faith. it is very important in his life. he happens to be a southern baptist. hiss based upon understanding of scripture. and the very famous speech that john f. kennedy made in 1960 when he was a senator in texas, my hometown of houston. my pastor at the time was there. i was 13 years old and was eager to hear his report after listening to senator kennedy. senator kennedy said he would be guided by his conscience in making decisions, not by any external authority. and he would be guided by his conscience.
8:00 am
but if his conscience came into conflict with his duties as president, he would resign the office. we have to assume that john f. kennedy's conscience would be guided by his catholic faith. when it comes to obamacare, my bible teaches me that life begins at conception. i do not think i should be forced to pay for other people's abortions. for people of religious faith, many believe the bible is a guidepost when it comes to the sanctity of human life. it is a totally appropriate ad. the people of arkansas and not some legislature but the people of arkansas will decide if that is the kind of senator they want or not.
8:01 am
guest: here is where bible interpretation turns into a conflict between the two of us. the bible never mentions abortion or obamacare. we do know that abortion or fetusg a miscarriage of a was not the same thing as hurting or killing the mother. every other reference may be poetic. you turn to the bible and you are looking at the wrong document. guest: i could not disagree more, barry. host: i will get our viewers involved. loretta isfirst, -- first. caller: merry christmas, everybody. i do not know where to begin. we should have a
8:02 am
separation between church and state. it is not because doing any good right now. we have the republicans cutting food stamps, cutting everything for the poor and they call themselves christians. thereverend lynn, if god is one that is going to do all the judging, you have nothing to do with any woman having an abortion. let god do the judging. that is what is wrong in congress right now. the republicans think they run everything, that america is there's. here they come with all of the evil, wicked policies that have screwed this country up. host: all right, loretta.
8:03 am
the telephone just fell. we will get that straightened out. we will go to dr. land. guest: i do not believe anyone should have an absolute right of life or death over another human being. i believe the unborn baby dies. it is the most common form of death in the united states. it would be the most common form of death if you count abortion. more people die from that than from heart disease or diabetes. i am a huge fan of mothers. i plead guilty to being a mother possibly -- mother's boy. our unborn citizens deserve the protection of the law.
8:04 am
theythey are conceived, deserve the protection of the law. the decision is between a mother and a doctor. they are forgetting there is a third person involved. they are the one that dies if an abortion takes place. guest: here we go again. you call this murder. guest: i did not call it murder. it is the taking of an unborn life. life begins at conception. that is a statement of scientific fact. guest: that is not a statement of scientific fact. guest: sure it is. guest: he is a doctor. guest: most of the few attrition's would say that is a different opinion. dr. frisk determined that terri
8:05 am
schiavo, that she needed additional food and subsidence from water during that conflict about a decade ago. he was doing his diagnosis from the senate floor. this is not the way we make public policy. people have different views human life becomes a person who is entitled to constitutional rights. that is where the supreme court got it right. i think the tide is not moving very quickly in your direction. guest: it is moving more quickly in public opinion. i i live a normal lifespan, will live to see roe v wade on the ash heap of history. >guest: you are living at this time on another big issue for
8:06 am
you and that is marriage equality and what you would call same-sex marriage. the issue is lost in the general public polling and the polling evangelicals who characterize themselves as evangelicals. you have lost that battle. host: i will have you respond. that michaud our viewers some polling and a map that shows same-sex marriage data in the united states, new mexico, the most recent state to approve gay marriage. go ahead, dr. land. guest: we are losing the battle when it comes to same-sex marriage but winning to the battle of human life from natural death and everywhere in between.
8:07 am
you never completely lose a battle. if you lose, you can come back and make a better argument the next time. we decide these things by the judgment of the american people over the long haul. if you are not live out a normal lifespan, we will live to see roe v wade on the ash heap of history. interestingebate is but i have to get into more phone calls. greensboro, north carolina. hi there. caller: hello. merry christmas to all. guest: merry christmas. abortion, and as a lot of my fellow southern baptists south of greensboro agree it is murder, there is no
8:08 am
other way to put it. incest,ase of rape or that is wrong. abortion is wrong. as far as gay marriage goes, neither of these men would be here if they were the product of a gay marriage. you cannot tell me that two male females could create a child. guest: i could have been adopted. we are changing the definition of family. it is hard to know what forms a marriage now -- when the senses people figure out who is living where, they find lots of children not being abused and nothing wrong with her
8:09 am
upbringing and they are being raised by two men or two women. this can be a completely responsible way to raise children. if we get rid of some of the fears that are interjected into this debate by my friends of the so-called religious right, do not help the debate and do not elevate the political discourse and build in stereotypes which experience and sometimes science says are not true. host: to research poll -- pew research poll, abortion viewed in moral terms. and marie, -- ann marie, independent caller. caller: good morning. guest: good morning. this is ann mairie. i wanted to make a comment.
8:10 am
thinks itynn, if he is possible to separate the conscience from the decisions. we are all guided by something. i would wonder who the reverend is governed by. our personalte opinion about something. there is some level within our being that is guided by our conscience and i do not believe separation of church and state is really absolute. you are always going to have some conscience in there. separatedo not want to your conscious or my conscience from private decision-making. i do not want the government to decide on certain issues these very intimate issues or issues like on religious beliefs
8:11 am
done same-sex marriage or over abortion and contraception. the government should not be picking and choosing the winners of those battles of conscience. we should be capable of going to their parishioner and making moral arguments. if the moral arguments fair, i do not think you can say, we failed. our parishioners disagree with us on contraception. so fast a law prohibiting it. do not covered by insurance. you do not turn to the government when you have not used moral suasion successfully on a person who say they believe the same as you do. host: dr. richard land? guest: let me go back to a previous caller. murderer has to have a common
8:12 am
societal definition. the issue of abortion is not commonly agreed upon. the taking of a human life, yes. the definition has to be societally affirmed. when it comes to conscience, of course. your conscience is going to guide you, we hope. confirmednscience are by being reared in a specific country. there are generational influences on your conscience. if iteve your conscience, is guided by your religious faith, you have a right to bring that to bear on public policy. that is what dr. king did. he was a baptist minister. the boycott was started in
8:13 am
alabama in a church. he was in jail and said i am in jail because i refuse to obeyan y an unjust law. the civil rights movement was not impose i the judiciary. evil deedd there are in plessy versus ferguson. that in the brown versus board of education decision. dr. king dissuaded the american people that segregation was wrong. thank god that he did. which we didsed in the civil rights act, 1967
8:14 am
voting rights act. that legislation was upheld by the judiciary. it wasn't the government imposing it. ,t was the american people by the forthright confrontation of the civil rights movement, saying this is immoral and wrong. we are going to impose our morality on george wallace and we are going to impose our morality on bull connor because they are trying to impose their immorality on african-americans. host: we have a tweet from laura. host: recent polling showing the growth of the nonreligious, the people who say they are not
8:15 am
religious is a growing in this country. guest: i am tired of the culture wars, too. i think everybody is tired of the culture wars. that does not mean they are going to end. we are a very evenly divided country on many issues. i live in charlotte, north carolina, the home of billy graham. there is a different cultural in new yorkre than city. what we have to do is understand this is going to continue and we need to not question people's motives and to understand the people have different convictions. the way we decide these things is who we elect to office.
8:16 am
this next call from kentucky, republican caller. caller: good morning. merry christmas. this is about religion and politics. politicians,of our when they go home, they go to they praychurches and to their own gods, which is one god to me. when they go back to washington, i think they use religion in a solid way to make decisions. that is the way it has always been. that is my remark. suggesting yous have to remove all of your religious convictions when you walk into the capital by the
8:17 am
halls of the white house, even if you live there permanently. what we are saying is in some of these issues, particularly those involving religion, it is not up to politicians to decide what religious viewpoint is best or not so good. do not pick winners or losers. one of the things the polls demonstrate is that people with no religious affiliation have become dyed in the wool atheists. some have. a lot of other people consider themselves spiritual or religious people. say, i am just embarrassed by the way -- and they will name somebody in the religious right who said some outlandish thing or some law they try to pass.
8:18 am
they try to pass a law in north carolina that would allow each county to determine which religion to affiliate itself with. i do not think there will be a lot of muslim or scientology counties in north carolina. this was a way to christianize the state, county by county. john stuart was able to laugh it off the legislative table. unless they are very clearly opposed by people like yourself, these issues, as an apparent -- embarrassment to thinking seriously about moral and ethical issues. called in.nones were a majority have not rejected god to what they perceive is the form of organized religion that
8:19 am
they were affiliated with when they were growing up. religion is so healthy in america compared to other countries around the world. showed 44%poll that of american adults have change their faith. that is an enormous lead healthy statistic. we have religious freedom in this country. we have the freedom to reject a faithor adopt a new without any social pressure that would negate that. are inople in a faith that faith because they believe it and because it is meeting their needs and not because of some social pressures. you will see a continued landscape that is in flux, but
8:20 am
we have been and we will continue to be a predominantly religious country. in may be more pluralistic than it has in the past. that idea that we have developed a society where you are truly free to worship as you please or not to worship without economic penalty or government penalties or social penalties is one of the reasons that we are such a religious country and one of the reasons that religion is healthy in america. host: this is the so-called pew rise andones on the how it has grown since 2007. carol in florida. caller: hosthi. i firmly believe in the separation of church and state. i remember it was used before
8:21 am
the invasion of iraq. my husband and i marched against that invasion. my brother tommy that i should be praying instead of protesting. i believe in prayer. i also believe that god expects me to act on my conscience. i also do not believe anyone has the power over life and death. you may be waiting to see the end of roe versus wade. i am waiting to see george w. bush charge with murder. host: dr. richard land. guest: i agree you have the right and i would argue if you feel that strongly about it, the conviction to peacefully protest. i believe we should be praying every day. my bible tells me i should be praying incessantly and i try to
8:22 am
do that as often as possible. you have the right to protest. we obviously disagree about former president bush. i do not think -- i think there is a far better chance that rose v wade is going to be resend it then george w. bush charged with murder. host: we have a tweet. there is a certain amount of truth to that. the supreme court has said when it comes to some of these tenacious religious issues, the supreme court of a state ought to be the final determinant of what a statute means. justice rehnquist did believe there should be some
8:23 am
experimentation. that is why we at americans united for separation of church and state go into court to challenge something that might be approved under the federal constitution will go into a state and prevail and defeat school voucher programs using state constitutions. that is an issue right now in colorado and new hampshire. we try to use it. there is a separation and a certain time and place in which the state gets to make its own decisions, many times being more protective of individual freedoms. host: we are talking about the rule of religion and our guests, barry lynn, and dr.
8:24 am
richard land. our debate continues for another 25 minutes or so. i want to get both of your takes on the new pope. it is his first christmas. page -- y," editorial let me begin with you. guest: i think he is exciting. he is revolutionary. he is the first non-european pope in over a millennium. that is quite a statement. the first non-european pope in over a millennium. he comes from the southern hemisphere. he will bring a lot of fresh perspectives to the industrialized northern hemisphere and to the eurocentric papacy. he is indicative of the fact
8:25 am
that unless something extraordinary happens in north america and western europe in the next 30 years, the christian faith within 30 years will be made up or down mentally -- will have a majority of non-anglos as members. i think that he brings a fresh perspective. his dropping of a lot of the accoutrements of the vatican, and a lot of the privileges, material privileges and his adoption of a simple lifestyle. i am looking forward to hearing what he has to say about of a lot of things. right intime" was naming him the person of the year. he will be at least as
8:26 am
extraordinary as in his influence in the church as john xxiii. and john guest: an extraordinary set of developments in his life. sometimes people on the right and left impose upon him things that will not be statements in the past but here are a couple things he said i find relevant to the debate about religion in america. a huge number of roman catholics are active and practicing. he has never said he is changing his mind. whatpect he believes richard land does on the subject of abortion. on the subject of the poor, he suggests the culture of the world needs to be looked at. .e have to look at the poor
8:27 am
this is the whole sentiment of what the christian faith is. has extraordinarily, he suggested maybe you do not have to be a catholic to know god and have a kind of salvation. these are extraordinary statements. they would come out of the mouth of the most liberal protestant theologians in 1975. you would be horrified the idea that a christian might say, you might not have to be a christian in order to be saved. int: what is the one issue u.s. politics that you think the pope could weigh in on and make a big difference? the one issue? guest: i think there is any
8:28 am
issue that francis weighed in on what have an impact because of the number of practicing roman catholics in the united states. he can have the most impact on immigration reform. host: and why? guest: if he were to come out strongly in favor of immigration reform, and might take it across the finish line. i am a strong supporter of comprehensive immigration reform. i think the moral suasion that comes with the papacy would be very important in american political life, particularly if this --at this precise moment when immigration reform hangs in the balance. march one debate in
8:29 am
for-profitpanies, companies, that he would say people, including roman catholics who do not, who believe what the traditional, church teaches on contraception should not use contraception, but i do not think that companies have a corporate conscious to deny to their women employees their right to obtain that to which they are constitutionally entitled. i would love him to say that. i would applaud him. i will attempt to visit him. it is not all that complex. do not expect the government to pass special rules or to say that companies have developed a
8:30 am
conscience. the time that a company is sitting next to me in a pew, i might believe it has a conscience. i would like the pope to weigh in as a matter of common sense. guest: they also require them to pay for it. is one thing to deny it and another thing to pay for it. ok.: jim is up next. hi, jim. caller: my list keeps growing. the abortion issue. this person who says he is a reverend, who clearly is not. is againstof a life
8:31 am
god's law, man's law. it is a pre-meditated murder. you know darn well you are taking a life. politician washe expressing what he felt. there is nothing wrong with that. it only says freedom of religion. it doesn't say separation -- that is a liberal lie. guest: it doesn't say freedom of religion. these are the ideas that are contained in the constitution. it doesn't say we should have fair trials. you look at the debates about it. the framers were pretty tough-minded when they came to this. they did not want government to have any say in the policies of
8:32 am
religion. they do not want religion to be the basis of the civil government. thomas jefferson refused to declare. in the early days, this was a big a controversial matter. the bible does not say anything about abortion. you can find references where there is a poetic sense that a god knew you when you are in the womb. that has nothing to do with making policy. mark pryor suggested he would be turning to the bible as a place to resolve questions. toave a book on my desk remind me and it has solution from scripture about every issue from immigration, abortion, what the next generation of fighter
8:33 am
thees -- where is this in bible? where are the questions answered where we should care about people? wear these specifics mentioned? the answer is they are not. host: i want to throw this tweet at you from mike. of course, henry david thoreau went to jail because he didn't not want to pay taxes during the mexican american war. if you believe you shouldn't have to pay for it, i guess you can't refuse to pay your taxes. some of us will face those issues, if indeed the contraceptive mandate is upheld by the supreme court.
8:34 am
we will have to decide if we are going to pay the fine and not having insurance or not. we do not believe we have the right to asked e-government -- by the way, that is a great book. i would encourage everybody to read the book. you will see for yourself whether barry lynn is right. it is a great book. i use it as a textbook. i'm not surprised that barry keeps it on his desk. it reminds me of what i am for. guest: it is astonishing. the tweet raises a good question. agrees it will not cover particular medical interventions. the bible suggests it is the
8:35 am
husband as the head of the family. wey christians today say, are not against african americans but we would prefer the comfort level when there are people like us working in the company's that we run. if we allow this to happen, you end up with anarchy based on a religious claim trumping every law you do not happen to like. the conference of catholic bishops believe that to be. you do not get an exemption just because you have a corporate religious objection to something. this to the add conversation. that churches
8:36 am
should pay taxes when all nonprofits pay taxes. i think churches should be treated the way all nonprofit entities should be treated. we have a charitable heritage in this country. one reason is we have decided and discovered that when people are free to give and the government encourages them to do so by giving them a tax exemption, that they give a lot and they give a lot to the march of dimes and to the americans united for separation of church and state and to the seven convention baptist churches. they give a lot to all i think allle -- churches should be treated the way all nonprofits are treated. i do not think most americans
8:37 am
want nonprofits to be taxed. the system has encouraged people to give and they get to deduct that from their taxes. it has brought about a lot of good in this country and charitable activities around the world. is the system we should keep and encourage. guest: i would like to have these charities that do this on a regular basis engaged in what the law says they need to do. no endorsement to candidates for public office. this administration has been derelict in making some very minor cosmetic changes that would permit us to have an enforcement of the law that says you cannot use the pulpit or church harking not or church bus in support of one candidate over
8:38 am
another. the obama administration has been derelict in not enforcing that. i would like to see that enforced across the board. guest: i do not think that churches should be endorsing candidates. we should be looking for candidates who endorse us. dan in newll go to hampshire. caller: good morning. i would like to preface my comments i saying i am neither a woman nor a doctor. happensbortion which naturally in all mammals, the demarcation of the moment of conception is near impossible. it could be anywhere over a span of two or three weeks.
8:39 am
how do you confer citizenship to something that you cannot mark a moment in time? do we name our names and give them a certificate -- egg certificates? a person might be flying over the united states and conceives a child. is that child a citizen? guest: we are not talking about eggs. we are talking about a fertilized egg. every abortion that is done intentionally stops a beating heart. how about a beating heart as a requirement for citizenship? a baby's heart begins to beat at about 24 days after fertilization, after the egg is fertilized. they aren do not know
8:40 am
pregnant until after 24 days. that is something we should think about this christmas. 45% ofperhaps as many as fertilized eggs, whether they have a beating heart or not, do spontaneously abort. i think this is good science. is not asaid there beating heart until 24 days. when you have this kind of debate that is not so much medical as theological. you cannot make public policy for every american. there are 2000 different religions in this country. a you're going to allow politician to make those medical
8:41 am
determinations for each and every woman. is unfair and un-american. guest: i believe the american people have a right to make it decision collectively and i believe they will. host: this is a recent story by "roll call." this came out from the house and ministration committee. reverend lynn? guest: i do realize some would say, that phrase is about a christian holiday. there are certain derivations from other pre-christian holidays. this does not worry me. what worries me is when people under the guise of being responsible and the size completely --emphasize the
8:42 am
celebration of christmas. there is nobody living in this planet who does not know it is christmas and is not tripping over santa clauses and manger scenes on private property. and not something else whether that the hanukkah or the solstice or festivus. guest: i think it is important that you noted they could say happy hanukkah and they could observe ramadan. that is pluralism. what we believe in is a secular state and a pluralistic society in which people have the right to express their faith, whether it is the christian or jewish faith or no faith.
8:43 am
they have a right to their moment in the public square. i would argue we ought to be looking for inclusion rather than exclusion on public property and in private company. >> there is a 10 commandments monument in oklahoma. and they wantup to put a monument in a similar location to express their views. hindu americans also want to put a monument there. i would say that we ought to have, if people say they want eche, if theye
8:44 am
provide the money, the government should accommodate them. and also symbols of the jewish faith, if people of the jewish faith want to have it or symbols of the islamic faith, and symbols of atheism, if somebody wants to put up a monument to the no god. there has to be some limit on permanency or we would have no room for the senators or congressmen to walk around. i think some acknowledgment is appropriate. these people should have some opportunity. it is the public's space. i think we do better by trying to be inclusive them by trying to censor, try to pretend that we are not a religious people. we are an overwhelming religious people. places,ize our public
8:45 am
to pretend that we are not seems to me is foolish and is unnecessary. 4 of a i will send you 1/ membership form. it is all are nothing when it comes to the public square. host: gary in virginia, republican caller. caller: hi. guest: merry christmas. caller: merry christmas. i believe abortion is wrong. on the other hand, i do not think the problem is abortion. a problem is unwanted i can see. what the church and what the republican should be focusing on is how do you handle unwanted pregnancy? host: ok.
8:46 am
dr. lalnd. nd. guest: i agree and we have a lot of data that shows that the best outcome for children, the best outcome is to be reared in a home with a mother and a father who are married to each other. this is the best outcome for children. the plural of anecdote is not data. the data it is overwhelming on this, whether you will graduate from high school or college, whether you will experiment with illicit drugs or be the subject of sexual or physical abuse. the best outcomes are mothers and fathers married to each other having children. when i want to argue for is when you have an unwanted pregnancy, if you are not married, the best
8:47 am
outcome is to encourage adoption. we have millions of couples waiting for babies. adoption is only chosen unfortunately at the current time by 1% of women who find themselves in what they called a problem pregnancy, which is most often a pregnancy out of wedlock. that to me is a tragedy. i know so many people who want to adopt and so many who have adopted. i know what a beautiful outcome that is. i would encourage churches to provide far more resources and far more support for adoption. host: the final word to reverend lynn. guest: mothers and fathers are good. i want to stand behind mothers
8:48 am
and fathers also. there tends to be more income and those families. poverty has a lot to do with the outcome. do we have comprehensive sex education in the schools so people can understand how they can prevent pregnancies? so many on the religious right fight that. will we make contraceptives available and not decide the debate over contraceptive coverage. most forms of birth control induced abortion. we have to get over that. host: reverend barry lynn and dr. richard land, thank you both. we appreciate the conversation. guest: happy holidays. host: we will talk about identity theft with steven toporoff.
8:49 am
but first a news update from c-span radio. >> there could be a ruling on utah's appeal in a same-sex marriage case. a judge denied a stay on his own ruling yesterday. taught say that you should not be required to abide i one judge's view. retailers are hoping for some last-minute changes of heart but so far frugal holiday shoppers. the holiday season has talent off the past three weeks. sales at u.s. stores dropped billion for the week that ended sunday, compared to the same period. as last year. the department of justice is investigating the credit and debit card security breach at target. target revealed that dated
8:50 am
enacted to about 40 million accounts were stolen between november 27 and december 15. the department of justice declined to comment. target is working with the u.s. secret service. more on target coming up in a moment on "washington journal." those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. >> i think radio is the longest left.f media that is only c-span does longform conversation anymore. it is tremendously revealing when authors have their book read these days because they do not get many people who read their books and know what they are talking about. i get a great deal of satisfaction. "that is the best interview i've
8:51 am
had on the book tour." love the interview on things that matter, his new collection of essays. that makes my day. i like radio. i can do so many different things. >> more on sunday night at 8:00 h hewitt. >> c-span. we bring public affairs events from washington directly to you, putting you in the room at congressional hearings, white house events, briefings, and conferences, and offering complete gavel-to-gavel coverage of the u.s. house, all as a public service of private industry. we're c-span, created by the cable tv industry 34 years ago and funded by your local cable or satellite provider. and now, you can watch us in hd. >> "washington journal" continues.
8:52 am
we want to welcome to the table steven toporoff from the division of privacy and identity protection. let's begin with, how do you define identity theft over at the ftc? guest: the misuse of an individual's personal information for fraudulent purpose. the fraudulent purpose could be really anything. it could be misuse of credit accounts inning new a consumer's name. it could be the misuse of a consumers name, date of birth, social security number for medical purposes. identity theft can be used to hide from law enforcement. arrestedwho may be might give somebody else's densification as their own.
8:53 am
they pose as some other american so that they would not be targeted by law enforcement. tost: what is the top way tha identity is stolen? guest: that is hard to say whether there is a top way but there is a number of ways. what we do is we classify identity theft typically in terms of length tech and more high-tech of identity theft. low tech is what we are think of what we think about identity theft and that is stolen wallets, stolen purses, lost smartphones, were thieves could pick that up. they can also be dumpster diving, where information is tossed in the trash. they could be lost or stolen mail.
8:54 am
more high-tech types of identity types a, one is phishing of schemes were somebody receives an e-mail asking him to click on a link to provide personal information and in fact is not the company that the consumer thinks send the message but a thief trying to gain axes to their personal information. host: what is the role of the federal trade association? guest: identity theft is a federal crime. things.a number of it made identity theft a federal crime. those types of crime are prosecuted by the department of justice. a gave the federal trade commission two unique roles.
8:55 am
one is the collection of consumer complaint data. we have the database and we have a network. and consumers could enter data into the sentinel that work directly by going online or they could: and speak to a counselor. the database collects consumer andrmation and fraud identity theft information. host: what do you do with the information? guest: the information becomes available to law enforcement. we have about 2000 law enforcement department -- partners that have access to the network. they can do searches by geographic location, the type of identity theft. we support law enforcement but we ourselves do not prosecute instances of identity theft. host: do you investigate it?
8:56 am
guest: no. we collect information and we give that over and make it accessible to law enforcement. host: what is your first action if you are a victim? guest: if you are and identity theft victim, there is a few things you need to do. the sooner you do them, the better. consider putting on a fraud alert on your file. notifies alert potential creditors that you are at risk and the creditors would have to take steps to identify who you are before lending money . if you are taking out a loan, that is a good step. also, almost all states have something that is called a credit freeze or security
8:57 am
freeze. it basically locks down your creditorle so that no or thief can open up new accounts in your name unless you specifically lift the freeze. that is one important thing to do. monitor your statement. everyone should monitor their bank statement, their credit card statements, utilities, tourance, medical statements make sure there is nothing there that is suspicious or raises a red flag that might be an indicator of identity theft. host: when do you go to the ftc? guest: you can file a complaint with us. the complaint you file will be made available to law enforcement. there is another reason to file a complaint with the federal trade commission.
8:58 am
act is thereporting federal statute that gives consumers certain rights when they are victims of identity theft. in order to take advantage of those rights, you need to have an identity theft report. an identity theft report basically has two parts. there is an an affidavit and a police report. by going to the federal trade commission site and entering your data, at the end of the are a series of questions -- you can print out an identity theft affidavit and you can take that and getting police report together and this makes the identity theft report. by filing with the federal trade commission, you take one of the
8:59 am
steps that you need to take advantage of federal rights under the fair credit reporting act. host: we are talking with steven toporoff from the federal trade commission, an attorney. you heard him talk about using this agency to alert agencies about identity theft. we want to get your comments and questions for the federal trade commission. republicans, 202-585-3881. democrats, 202-585-3880. .ndependents, 202-585-3882 you can also send us a tweet, let's talk about what happened at target. tell us how this could have happened. guest: ok. i cannot talk about the specifics of target.
9:00 am
it is an ongoing investigation. there other agencies involved. it would be inappropriate for me to comment. i'm not sure that target and law-enforcement agencies as of today quite no effect we what happened. when there is a breach of information at a company or an agency for that matter, what we have discovered in our law- , and theyt efforts steve'st so much on the rescued by who are the justice department, but we can look at the data and security measures. up against a company that
9:01 am
fails to use appropriate measures to safeguard consumers data. we describe it as the lifecycle of data, if you will. data has a live comment goes on a journey, it is collected, it is transported, it is stored, it is used. ultimately, it is disposed of. one of those point, there could be vulnerabilities. hackers know what they are doing, most of the time, and they look for vulnerabilities along those different points. comment on target, but other cases that we have brought, there have been failnces where companies to take reasonable and appropriate measures when it could be anticipated that there were vulnerabilities, especially, taxable or abilities. big: identity theft,
9:02 am
businesses, big brother regulate their access and reselling of our information. now doing facial recognition. guest: this issue comes up periodically. is no national standard that would govern all industries when it comes to identity theft. order identity security, i should say. there may be some laws that govern the financial sector, there may be some that covered a, but there is no national standard, if you will. standards, and also breach notification laws. require an act of congress to set that kind of legislation. i really couldn't comment more than that. host: this headline in the
9:03 am
washington times. they point specifically to those easy to copy magnet strips that are on the back of credit and debit cards. guest: this issue comes up periodically. how our a gap between current cards work and how they work overseas. overseas they have moved towards the chip, as you have mentioned. that has more security features than the magnetic strip that we are all used to seeing on the back of our cards. issue, theylicy have a concern for the financial industry, whether they want to go the chip route, by understanding, based on what has been said in the media, eventually we are moving in that direction. i could not say whether the chip would prevent the target
9:04 am
incident, or not. i generally can say that the financial industry is going -- growing much concerned about fraud and identity theft, and have taken measures even with the magnetic strip. for example, i would not be viewersd if many of the have gotten a call at some point by their credit card company west bay whether they have purchased a big-ticket item. the financial services industry is very much aware of these issues, and my standing is that we eventually will move toward chip, but another concern is chips, magnetic strip, are going to be absolute -- obsolete in a few years as we move toward a more mobile- based, smartphone industry. host: go ahead caller. caller: good morning. insurance company forge
9:05 am
my documents so i would say that i signed to a lesser policy. is there anything i can do about that? it was mutual omaha. i was just curious. guest: i really cannot comment on that. types ofaware of those situations. that is not classic identity theft. it might be other things, it is not a good practice, but i could not comment on that specific incident. caller.m, go ahead small: i own a business, and i noticed $40,000 missing, and i found that somebody has taken my account is renting in a different name with a different
9:06 am
signature, and withdrawing money from my account. two different stores. find out about they putgo shopping the check through the machine and it goes directly to your account. account is rating their -- the routing number and withdrawing the money. if you don't check your account statement every month, you could lose all your savings. nobody is taking responsibility. guest: there is a difference when the consumer uses a debit card versus a credit card. different enteral statutes taken. general for a debit card, if anddo not have -- report
9:07 am
authorized withdrawal of funds within 60 days, you could be liable for the withdrawals that are made on that particular account. for checks, there are ways but if somebody is fraudulently using your check to you couldn't report that as well. -- you could report that as well. resource atry good the federal trade commission, a copperheads of guide on identity theft. it is called taking charge to and we have it available in english and in spanish. you can get that online on i would urge anyone with a specific problem like that to look through the guard -- the guide. ofaddress specific types identity theft, and our there are, and letters to help you walk through the process and hopefully resolve your problem. host: let's go to marjorie in
9:08 am
pratt, west virginia. caller: i think part of this conversation could be linked to the earlier program more people called in about an essay and edward snowden. spanecember the 21st, c- aired a hearing by senator rockefeller. there was a woman named pam dixon who was the executive director of the world privacy forum. i would love it if you guys could get her on your show. the hearing was about data brokers. experience, -- ex ofion, they did sharing peoples identity, and it turned lot oft this was a
9:09 am
people's identities that they should have been protecting. there is oversight with what is .appening that they do senator rockefeller even quoted a statistic that the people who -- i'm sorry, i'm nervous. host: you're doing fine. caller: mr. rockefeller said it .0000 one chance that the nsa will really be looking into a citizen's phone calls or e-mails or whatever. these reported that companies, there is no regulation of these companies .ike experian
9:10 am
based well -- they sell lists of people's names them and they share the information with companies for 7.9 cents a name. they report on economic vulnerable people. legal immigrants, recent graduates from college, and they sell your name, your medical information, military information -- they give for highlighting that hearing. watchinge interested it go to our video library, and he can see the testimony that she refers to. or a guest a topic suggestion, you can send us that , send it via e-mail at
9:11 am
head.e shaking your topic is really not identity theft, but data brokers. the collection of massive amounts of data is. that is really a separate issue that identity theft. it is certainly one that has gained a lot of attention. that have been hearings on the hill about this issue, and the federal trade commission has been looking at data broker issues as well. who picked upfee, company, known as thwarting hackers by keeping it human. in today's world cardholders can easily control where their debit
9:12 am
cards can be used. smartphones are ubiquitous. guest: one of the interesting things about this whole area of innovationeft is the that is going on. you mentioned smartphones, and mobile, and the whole world of apps, and that is relatively new. i would up his prize two or three years down the road that we are on our way to secure consumer's information online. the methods of making a purchase, consumers still need to be vigilant. they need to protect their personal data, they need to look through accounts and make sure that there are no suspicious activities on the account.
9:13 am
one of the things i wanted to mention before was it is really critical for consumers to check their credit reports on a regular basis. they could do that but it -- for free by going to annual credit you can get a copy of your credit report for free, as i mentioned, from each of the three major credit debt credit reporting agencies. they will get a copy of their credit report from one of the credit reporting agencies, and that way over the course of the year they are able to enter monitor. host: a tweet about the government's security measures -- that happens. there are no questions that there have been breaches of government data. the federal trade commission has
9:14 am
no authority to go after another agency. i'm not sure that the justice department -- i would imagine they do not have authority as well. outreachsignificant among agencies to promote awareness of privacy issues. this goes on continuously. for example, there are meetings of chief rivals the officers that occur monthly, and information is shared about best practices. more recently, the national institute for science and thatology put out controls privacy controls and mandates that apply to agencies. and agencies going forward have to implement security measures to protect employee and other
9:15 am
data that they possess. they also have to go through now these privacy controls. there is a lot that is going on level to the federal protect consumers data. host: democratic caller. caller: i want to make one point that you cannot call a credit we have all your credit cards in one bunch, and you call this company, and they will say they will cancel all the cards. if my wallet was stolen, the cards that i thought were canceled, the guy who stole my wallet move to another area, called up all those cabeza just had is addressed changed and was using my credit cards. that is no reassurance of anything. the second point is what is your rate of capture and punishment of these people?
9:16 am
this guy walked away foree. it is important to understand the legal context in which the federal trade commission operates. when we bring a case, for example, for a data security matter. we bring that under section five of the federal trade commission. that is the provision that makes unlawful business practices. ofdoes not have any kind civil penalties or fines associated with it. what we typically get is an order that restricts the company's, and the going forward -- conduct going forward. if there is a violation of that order, the federal trade commission can impact a penalty. bring, under appropriate circumstances, data security or privacy types of cases, but it
9:17 am
would not be a civil penalty attached to them. as far as the first question goes, i cannot answer a specific instance. in general, if somebody has their cards stolen, they can call up credit card companies and canceled the account. that should happen as a matter of course. but even so, i would urge consumers in that type of situation to take advantage of federal and state law by putting on a friday lurch or a credit or security freeze on their account to make it more difficult to open up a new account. host: a new tweet -- a republican caller. hi tony. ask if i would like to reduce my credit myself on my
9:18 am
credit cards, with that stopped some people from using my card because the credit would be say like $1000? and would that hurt my credit rating? can you take proactive measures, by limiting the amount of credit available on a card, to make it harder for consumers -- not consumers, thieves to use a stolen credit card to make high-end types of purchases? that is a novel concept. i have not heard that one before. it is worth exploring. you do not need a large credit allowance on your credit card, you might want to consider lowering it. when consumers go overseas, upically they may call the credit card company, and the question is how much do you think you will find --spend?
9:19 am
that is too limited, so if it is stolen the thieves are not able to make widespread use of it. it is a novel issue. whether it will affect your credit score ultimately, i really cannot say. i think credit scores are based upon a multitude of factors. i guess it would depend upon how the credit cards you have, other circumstances in your financial portfolio. i really cannot answer that one. i think it is an interesting limit the scope of your credit allowance on the card ra. host: a new tweet -- how much it costs to repair damaged credit history really depends upon the specifics. typical types of
9:20 am
identity theft, whether it is a -- card involved, the cost should be minimal. or gevo, if somebody has their credit card lost or stolen, or otherwise misused, and a rack up debts on -- the thieves rack up debts on it, there are procedures under the fair credit reporting act to block those charges. charges are blocked and removed from the credit file, usa consumer would not be responsible for paying it. in the case where there is thousands of dollars on a credit blocking and other measures you should be able to take care of that. of non-e instances credit card, or other types of identity theft but which can be a problem. medical, for example. there are identity thieves who
9:21 am
, or consumer files social security numbers. they reckon debts -- medical debts, for devices, surgery in some instances, other procedures. that is a little bit harder to correct. .e also talk about tax theft is a huge problem in the united states today. consumers who file their taxes made it a letter from the irs -- their social security number has already been used by somebody to get a refund. irs you can ultimately correct that, and consumers and taxpayers should ultimately get to their tax refund. it may take a while, and it may be some delay, but it really depends how long it takes, how
9:22 am
much out-of-pocket it might be depends on the nature of the identity theft and and the scope of the problem the consumer has. says -- ftc says -- ontact them guest: on taxes i just want to things that one of the that we do at the federal trade commission in addition to electing consumer complaints is we report on consumer complaints. year, mostly around the end of february, we publish what we call the data book. at last yours data, tax identity theft has been the largest category of identity
9:23 am
theft recorded to the -- reported to the commission. theft, all sorts has number one complaint to the commission for well over a decade. texas wase years ago, about 15% of the complaints that we received. last year, it jumped to 43%. it is a huge problem. thatt wanted to mention one of the things that the federal trade commission does is try to tackle specific instances, or specific problem's of identity theft. as well as address vulnerable groups. january, and the beginning of tax season, the federal trade commission is launching tax identity theft awareness week, and that is january 13-17th. we are going to have programs
9:24 am
throughout the country to draw attention to the problem. viewers interested in this can go to a specific webpage that we have for this amount taxidtheft. how: we were talking about identity theft complaints have grown over the years, as well as fraud complaints of all types. look at those numbers in calendar year 2012. there isentity theft, no question, has been consistently the most reported complaint to the federal trade commission. i believe in 2012 of identity theft was about 80% of the complaints that we received. if you think about all the varieties of complaints that the commission gets in the course of a year, 18% is really
9:25 am
staggering. host: another tweet -- guest: i do not know. example, let'sr say in a situation where somebodies run a card was stolen -- credit card was stolen. if the credit card was canceled, they check their cut a card statements, there's no suspicious activity, pretty much the issue may be resolved. police case, going to a officer to try to get a police report may not get you anywhere in addition to what the steps word that you already took. a misuse of credit cards does count as f, and we counted among the many thousands. but in terms of getting a police report, they may not really be
9:26 am
that this is very -- necessary. get a police report would be really need to challenge that activity on your credit report back on several but did your date, or other kinds of that's our charges that you do not recognize. host: independent caller. caller: i am 69, i am on a fixed income, i tried to rent a place, and they said my credit was not any good. i did that free government reddit check thing, and on that line they give you each of the names of the three outfits. they had questionnaires, and they said you bought a house that was $3000 a month. was $400 aa car that month. i make less than $1000 a year. i sent them all of the information that they ask for,
9:27 am
pictures of my id card, where i lived, copies of my red statements, auto statements. they all refused to give me my credit report. they should have to have an office somewhere where i can go and face someone face-to-face. have destroyed be, i cannot even rent a place. speak toain, i cannot the specific circumstances. or aere is identity theft, --ies of specifics suspicious activity, it can affect your credit rating, and it may be that if you have difficulty getting a loan or getting an apartment, or even getting a job, it could be a serious issue. allow consumers to get a copy of their credit report for free each year. you can do that by two ways, i
9:28 am
mentioned before by going to or if you call into one of the various agencies to get a copy of the credit report. the numbers are in the booklet that i mentioned that is available online at host: democratic caller. callingthe reason i am is unlike -- i am like that and when there. i am a senior citizen, and i do not know about these credit reports. they have something wrong, and they want to charge you. it if you try to call them, they
9:29 am
will not answer your questions, and you cannot get into that. i know that i'm not supposed to have nothing but dr. bills, and they act like you have a bad credit report. a my bank i cannot even get credit card or anything to pay for bills. i know it is wrong, because i have not been doing that. anything but dr. bills. the companies will not do anything, so what can i do? these companies, they need to be investigated, it seems to me. again, i cannot address the specifics of this caller's circumstance. we look at taking charge on our guide that lead you to the process of getting a credit report, getting a copy for free.
9:30 am
as well as the steps that you need to take to clean up a bad credit history, if that is the result of error. it doesn't even need to be identity theft. are our last caller, democratic caller. hello? lorraine in wisconsin? go ahead. caller: making a purchase and you're ready to check out, why would they ask you your birthday? guest: they really shouldn't. i've not heard of that particular problem. does not the law forbid companies from asking all sorts of information. that does not mean that you have to give it. worse than the date of birth is the social security number. ask for it as
9:31 am
part of their information. that gets back to what i was saying early on, that consumers need to be vigilant about checking their information. ae, that there is really legitimate need for the collection of that information, and to that they are ensured that that is going to be insured and safeguarded and a -- in a effective way. if they ask for the information, it you do not have to necessarily provided. this is necessarily true with older americans who get calls at home from a variety of service providers and everybody else. they will call and chat and ask for personal information to put them on a list or send them free samples, or prices.
9:32 am
areomebody is calling you, asking you for information, and you're not comfortable giving that information but do not. asked why they need the information, and how they're going to secure it. host: thank you very much for talking to our viewers. guest: my pleasure. host: we are going to end the washington journal where we started, it in your thoughts on what edward snowden had to say to "the washington post" ." he says he already won. that is coming up after this new state -- news update. >> the united nations has vescovered a mass gra containing 75 bodies in south sudan. two other mass graves are reported to have been found in the region. civilians have been seeking protection from rebels loyal to the country's former vice
9:33 am
president. the special representative for south sudan hold a news conference at 10 a.m. this morning, that will be live on c- span radio. artirna says that lawmakers trying to decide whether chiron is too crowded. if they kept the proposal by counsel would be set up to spend the next two years studying alternate locations. finally, for the second time in just six months, a shortage of cash and one quarter of china's banking industry has stirred anxiety in financial markets around the world. in china, the interest rate charged on loans from one thing to another spiked to nearly nine percent this week. well above the two percent or three percent that is usual. this could have ramifications
9:34 am
for the second largest economy in the world. those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. today comesoing on down to two words, and there are my two words. fundamental transformation. those are obama's words. i asked a couple of questions. when you look at because at then, -- constitution, does the president have the power to fundamentally transform america? of course not. why would you want to fundamentally change it, it is because you do not like america. when you keep hearing this fundamental transformation, change is hard, we need more time for change, we need to understand this is a direct attack on our constitutional system. that is what he is talking
9:35 am
about, that is what he needs. >> sunday, january 5. best selling author, lawyer, reagan official, and radio personality mark levin. live for three hours starting at noon eastern. online for the summers booktv book called we want to know what your favorite books were in 2013. throughout the month, join other readers to discuss the notable books published this year. go to and add a clickable club to enter the chat room. the the club to enter the chat room. host: for the last ready minutes washington journal, we want to go back to your thoughts on edward snowden hasing a reporter that he accomplished his mission, and is -- has already won.
9:36 am
what do you think about that? thatwriting in that story he interviewed mr. snowden non which mr.14 hours in snowden restored to himself as a russian house cat. "i didn't want to change society, i wanted to give society a chance to determine if it should change itself." was for student -- was for the public to the able to have a say in how they are governed." this statement from edward am not trying to
9:37 am
bring down the nsa, i'm working to improve the nsa, i'm still working for the nsa right now. they are the only ones who do not realize that." our first caller, what do you make of what he had to say? caller: good morning, and merry christmas. many people say that snowden went about it the wrong way. well, this is one individual that i tried to write to my congressman about something that was wrong. at the time, i was in the military. tw elite of valuation were very were veryerry were -- derogatory because my congress and got involved in what i have wrote. was in thee while i military, i tried to get
9:38 am
something straightened out because of lyrical correctives -- political correctness. the same results. so when people say he went about it the wrong way, i tried to go about it the right way, and was reprimanded highly. goodbye, and thank you for your time. host: from the piece that he put together in the washington post, on that part of the caller just talk about -- talked about, going about it the right way, snowden told mark that in the beginning of october 2012 he brought his misgivings to to superiors, ando two more in the threat center. thepened the data query to informants which had caller
9:39 am
quoted heat maps. his colleagues were often astonished to learn that we work talking more on americans and we were on russians in russia. many of them were troubled, and several said that they did not want to know anymore about this. what do you make of edward snowden saying i already warned them? caller: good morning. i'm glad that he did what he did because i do not care how patriotic you are, or what your views are, you need to know what this government is doing at all times. there are certain things that you do not need to know, but i feel like that you need to know what this government is doing. if we are spying on the people, we need to know that. host: thank you for the comments. we will keep taking your calls, and you can always join us on
9:40 am
social media. we are talking about what edward snowden had to say to "the washington post" know we had --y she said he should get amnesty. he should have his day in court. he has to say so damaging, how a partisan -- how important is it that he not release the rest of his documents? >> i'm not going to get into a negotiation with you on camera about something -- host: that was the national security advisor saying no amnesty for edward snowden. mike rogers, a republican admission -- in michigan said
9:41 am
that edward snowden has committed treason. independent caller, go ahead. like you to start over. caller: i think that mike rogers is absolutely wrong. an american citizen cannot speak out to try and help this country , i think it is wrong for politicians to try and shut them down. host: so what should be done? caller: what i think should be done? is that there should be representatives whether it is democrats, replicants -- republicans, or independents that represent the presentation and the bill of rights and the freedoms that these people were up and to have -- were meant to have. life is not fair.
9:42 am
just because you have your feelings hurt, does not mean that other people should be punished. host: have you been following this nsa story? we learned on friday that the task force has been put together some they put serious -- recognitions to the president. caller: i thought it was awesome other than asident supposed to bes a unifier. he was supposed to be fundamentally changing this country. but you do not have to control it to change it. he has not done what he said he would do. host: on that five-member task force, the head of the judiciary
9:43 am
committee tweeted out -- if you're interested and tuning in on that. edward snowden also made these comments. thesentitled him to make decisions? "they elected me, the overseers."
9:44 am
herb and west hartford connecticut. caller: snowden deserves clemency because what he did, i think, was done sincerely for the good of the country. an embarrassed the government and various ways, but in the long run it was worth doing. host: you think it was worth doing? caller: yes. host: do you think they should keep doing what they were doing? caller: i think they should make the changes that were put forth by the president. host: in what way? caller: the enormous volumes of information which require super intelligent computers to evaluate and make decisions about before any human i see fit to the amount of information should be limited. michael, the former cia
9:45 am
deputy director, and part of this five-member task force that president obama put together, he was on the face of the nation on sunday. here is what he had to say. >> what we found when we looked at the data is was out available -- out of a couple times of a a dozen timese they have tipped information to the fbi. that is important. is best way to describe this that if you of a terrorist overseas that is being monitored by a foreign government, and if that terrorist says i want to conduct an attack in the united states, or he is undertaking some sort of attack and you do not know where that attack is going to be -- host: former cia deputy director
9:46 am
talking on face the nation. the president said he will make policy statement about what the nsa is doing in january. michael in salem, oregon. independent caller. we're getting our thoughts on what edward snowden had to say to "the washington post." caller: good morning, merry christmas. one of the things that i find interesting about this is that snowden does not have the whole picture. electronic intelligence aircraft in the navy for about 20 years. snowden's arrogance with respect to the revelations he has made, he assumes he has the entire picture. he does not have the entire picture. so he does not have the context to reveal the secrets of our government. try to tell us, if you can, what is the entire picture,
9:47 am
then? caller: well. that's the problem. navyi was flying in the with clearance, many times i would read in the paper what people thought was going on, and it was not what was actually occurring. it is necessary for the safety of our nation that some of those things he safeguarded. not only the things that we know, but the processes by which we developed that knowledge. host: democratic caller. hi john. caller: hello. i feel and people do not realize that these phones that we have are essentially tracking devices. gatheredmation that is , they can track you with the phones committee give away free phone so they can track you. it is all information gathered
9:48 am
provided should be illegal. hopefully the government makes it illegal for anybody, besides the government, to collect any information. it should just be illegal. this whole question of legality and what the nsa is doing, and this nbc has a piece written by adam yesterday.
9:49 am
ite article goes on to say, " may be necessary to reconsider the premise that an individual has no reasonable activation of privacy in information fallen nearly disclosed to third parties." to tallahassee, tennessee, independent caller. caller: hello. it iserence to snowden, possible that he is treasonous, but what is going on is that if the government put a tracking system on all of us, that would
9:50 am
be outrageous. so they are working with nes,ness, with bones -- pho and gps and stuff to track what everybody is doing. that is fascism, that is the government working hand-in-hand with businesses to get away with doing that kind of stuff. has committed treason, so has obama, because he continues to change the law that he cannot change, even legislatively. he does whatever he wants with it. he really can't. he is treasonous, snowden is treasonous him and obama is right there with them. using fascism to give charge of all of the people to do whatever he wants. the irs, the nsa, they are all mixed up together because they
9:51 am
know exactly what he is doing. some person said he never wanted to do what he wanted to do, and i think he is doing exactly what he wanted to do, destroy the foundation of this country, and make it his own. host: blackstone, virginia, democratic caller. caller: good morning. i would just like to comment that the government is collecting all of that information, that is extremely expensive. there would have to be human oversight to make some judgments. it seems to me that when you're collecting that volume information, eventually, you're going to be tripping over yourself because of all of the extraneous available information that would be getting in the way of what they really need to be looking for. i would like to also say that we voluntarily give way too much information to 30 party -- third-party solicitation.
9:52 am
phone calls that want to sell all of thosehings, things are extracting information that we do not need to give anyone. host: a critic of the nsa program from colorado appeared asked this week, and was if there was any abuse by the nsa related to this program. >> there has been no abuse, but the dental for abuse is always there. americans have always aired on the side -- erred on the side of protecting our freedom. part of that is privacy. host: independent caller, we're talking but the nsa surveillance program. award snowden telling reporter that he has already won. what do you think? have been around for a
9:53 am
while. i can remember i went to vietnam, and it was a big lie, and i came home feeling guilty knowing that i'm going to hell because i killed a lot of people. out inies being thrown kuwait never happened. i felt so betrayed by the president and as soon as he said , ipons of mass distraction threw it through my tv, i knew it was going to happen. it takes courage to go to war. you got the whole intelligence community out there you know how many lies they can tell and get away with it? we should start facing up to it about america -- america.
9:54 am
when corporations get together and run our government, that is fascism. thank you very much. tree, --ire in each peach tree, georgia. hear other callers calling in talking about privacy and freedom and all of that. that comes down on the side of security. there is no privacy, no freedom without safety and security of our nation. haseems to be that america a very short memory span not long ago our country was attacked. let's stop blaming president obama. this was going on because of president bush, a republican president. both of these presidents are trying to protect our country.
9:55 am
you have no freedom, you have no privacy, if you do not have security. thank you. host: we will go to hassan in harrisburg pennsylvania. you're on the air. caller: good morning. i do not believe that snowden won anything. for has been going on centuries, for years. they have been spying on the public. beis he hoping to be -- me, like the lady said, we have to lose our freedom to have privacy. that is ridiculous, because our right as he is our freedom -- our privacy is our freedom. it is not like the terrorists
9:56 am
are coming into our households. they have ways of knowing when the terrorists are going to attack and not attack. they have all of that in place. is this just to spy on the books citizens -- public citizens. snowden thinks he has already won, he is not want anything because this has been going on for centuries, and they have other levels of spying. not just the nsa, they have other departments we do not even know about that are spying on us. host: john in englishtown, new jersey. what do you think? caller: first i like to say that i'm a liberal democrat, but i consider snowden a traitor, i hope he is caught and put on trial for treason. the other callers hit the nail on the head, because how many terrorist attracts -- attacks have been prevented by using this information to our benefit? would you rather have a little
9:57 am
less freedom and a lot more security? i do why would. headlineother news, a -- william in dickson, tennessee. independent caller. caller: how are you doing? for me it makes no difference what the nsa was doing. there were other ways to go about this, snowden is a traitor. there should be no deal done with him for amnesty.
9:58 am
another thingobs coming out of a bank should not be given amnesty or thinking of as a hero. he is a coward and a traitor. he went against the rules and regulations that he signed the contract that he would be trustworthy. snowden is not trustworthy when he took all this information, told the chinese and the russians, who do not give their citizens the right to do what he thought he could do in the united states. host: this contract that edward snowden signed. he said in his interview that he contract that is a civil contract.
9:59 am
what do you think? i differ from his opinion. i think when he signed that contract was saying that he was being held to secrecy of what the information was that he had. host: janet in west virginia. republican caller. caller: hi. calling about the things that happened in boston. there are so many lies told, but what did it matter? host: we will leave the comments there, because we want to show you what is happening on nasa
10:00 am
tv. courtesy of nasa tv this morning, astronauts are right now conducting the second and a series of spacewalks to make repairs to a cooling system on the international space station. this is a live stream from nasa tv. today's spacewalk it is scheduled to run over a six hour. we want to bring this left the version out. we got the fault with a low torque. >> standby.


info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on