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tv   Washington Journal  CSPAN  December 4, 2015 7:00am-10:01am EST

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crime and violence in schools. we will talk to the national center for education statistics. ♪ host: yesterday, new york times reporter tweeted out this question. how often do you think about the possibility of a shooting in your daily life? we will use his question as the basis for our conversation in this part of washington journal. the numbers are onscreen divided by age.
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how often do you think about mass shootings in your daily life? the question we are asking. here is his article that was posted last night. readersyork times asked a simple question in the wake of a mass shooting in san bernardino, california. how often do you think about the possibility of a shooting in your daily life? the number of responses was overwhelming, more than 5000 readers
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here are the responses that he got to his to eat. -- tweet. professor at a community college in massachusetts says
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under the response from rachel, philadelphia. she is worried about how people would treat her african-american son and thinks about the possibility of a shooting nearly daily tracy, 30 years old, florida writes to tell us about the frightening scenarios that run through her head when she drops her daughter offer kindergarten.
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those are some of the responses. we will read more as we go. here are the phone numbers. for those of you in the 18-29-year-old range, 202-748-8001 for those of you 30-50. if you are over 50 years old, 202-748-8002. if you can't get through on the phone lines and want to participate, you can do so via spanwj is our@c twitter handle, join us on facebook at facebook.com/c-span. send us an e-mail at cspan.org. margaret in leavenworth, kansas. 50 and over line. caller: thank you for putting one for older people. , i have seenime
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this happen so much, my heart is breaking. i am wondering about why? why do people go out and buy all of these guns on black friday? somebody selling all of these ammunitions -- do you get up and look at yourself in the morning and think how you have made the world that are -- better? why don't we make a law that medical bills for this carnage is paid for by the people making these products? it is really sad. host: do you think the world has changed in your 50 plus years? isler: it absolutely horrible. you never had to worry about kids getting shot. the other thing is the media, the films, i personally -- i don't care how good the movie is supposed to be. i have quit watching things with big guns in people's faces.
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shooting up all the time. i have had to limit the carnage. it is so realistic. fantasythe real and the , i have gotten depressed. host: how often do you think about being in a place where something like this could occur? caller: i live in fort leavenworth. there are threats about shooting the soldiers. there are police shootings daily -- not police, but shootings in kansas city, not far away. there are people i know who have gun shows and put guns and -- they like guns in kansas. the governor wants everybody to be -- to have guns. mentally ill people, no treatment. i think about it often that i will be somewhere and someone will have a beef. it will be radicals about abortion, radicals about homosexuals, radicals about what
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you think somebody looks like. it is a violent atmosphere. every day, i think -- what i do is an act of kindness everyday to overcome it. every single day, i do something for somebody that impacts them completely. whether it is by somebody pour a , somebodyistmas cards something to eat. every day i do something small. host: margaret in leavenworth, kansas. we are talking about the 14 deaths san bernardino, facing the question in the new york times question here he got 5000 responses. margaret mentioned daily shootings. according to gun violence our cave -- archive and issue tracker, in this year alone,
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three and 53 people have been killed in the u.s. in mass shootings, 62 have been killed in schools, 12,223 have been killed in gun incidents. incidents.red in gun germantown, maryland, how old are you? caller: 29. host: how often do you think about a mass shooting in your daily life? caller: i think about it all the time. i'm a middle school teacher. we have drills where we lock the doors and ask the kids to crouch . the idea is that we are telling them if somebody comes, i am going to somehow protect you. i hear these people talk about how teachers should be armed with guns. that sounds crazy to me because i can't imagine myself with a gun protecting these are the children.
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-- 30 children. host: you think about this regularly. you have drills. is there anything else you would do? caller: what else can you do? you tell children it is not worth it to make gun reforms so they have to crouch quietly in the dark. host: do you have an armed guard at your school? caller: we don't. the doors are locked. you have to be buzzed in. it is only so safe. host: thank you. jean, arcadia, louisiana. caller: good morning. i am a 71-year-old african-american female. although i live in the rural area in louisiana, i think about mass shootings often. the fact that most of the mass shootings in the united states are committed by white males. -- they do the shooting,
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holler about guns, this and that . when they commit these mass shootings, their response is they are mentally ill. if an african-american male does this, they will say he is a thug. these are mean, hateful, evil. host: how often do you think about an incident happening in your daily life? caller: it is not so much in my daily life because of where i live. i think about other people in large cities, chicago, new york, california. it is not happening right here in my small town doesn't mean i don't think about it daily.
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i try to get in yesterday. i am so tired of people blaming black lives matter. the muslims, all of these people committing mass shootings. it is the white males doing this. they are the first ones to call in and holler that we need more guns, we need more guns. we have to reject ourselves. they are mean, spiteful, hateful, evil. that is all they are. host: gene in arcadia, louisiana. the purportedputs san bernardino shooter on the cover. terrorist, mascara radicalized in contact with jihad followers. here is the new york daily news. he is a terrorist, they also say. see so areom, usyou these guys. robert dear, dylann roof, adam
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holmes who shot at the movie theater in aurora, colorado. then they add, this guy. lafiere, national rifle association. he put out an online at recently. >> you and i didn't choose to be targeted in the age of terror. and since like us will continue to be slaughtered in concert halls, sports stadiums, restaurants, and airplanes. no amount of bloodshed will ever satisfy the demons among us. these cowards dream of inflicting more damage, more suffering, more terror. no target is to intimate or sacred for these monsters. they will come to where we worship, where we educate, and where we lived. doors,il thoughts on our
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americans have a power no other people on the planet share. before throated right to defend our families and ourselves with our second amendment. the national rifle association of america, freedom's safest place. host: how often do you think about the possibility of a shooting in your daily life? a question the new york times tweeted out. his followers gave 5000 responses. aid, what is your answer to that? i am 55 years old. from washington, how are you doing? host: how often do you think
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about it daily shooting in your life? i am not worried about my life. step-by-step plan for mass shootings. not purposeful shootings like bank robberies, gang shootings, terrorists. shootings like california, virginia tech, oregon. the shooter does not have a clear plan and is doing that -- like the tacoma shooter who shot for police officers. i have a clear, step-by-step plan for these shootings. i have written a letter to white house, no response. written a letter to bernie sanders. host: tell you what. what is your plan? is vulnerablen
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, startingn 15-25 with one state, implementing it within one or two years, you can eradicate -- like this mass shooting -- host: what is one key aspect of your plan? caller: the key aspect is every mentally detrimental inpatient needs to be medicated by proper medication. that theseion companies give to patients that cause them agitation. i have studied all of these mass shooters since 1964. someone went in the tower and
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ohio university. have single one of them orn on antidepressants anti-psychotics for bipolar and schizophrenia. revolution -- a brain revolution. host: said calling in from washington. tweet asking how often do you think about mass shooting in daily life? one of the responses he got -- the other day i overheard my kindergartner playing lockdown drill with barbie dolls is a bad guys. kansas, hello.d, caller: my name is sandy, actually. my concern about the shootings is not only in our country, that all around the globe.
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i have a theory that it has a theologicalth subversion. host: sandy in howard, kansas. taylor, only five years old, a nurse at a hospital in indiana says thoughts of gun violence crept into her mind most nights at work. i'm a nurse on night shift and i find myself thinking about what i would do if there was an active shooter at my hospital. where would i hide? what doors when i walk in short notice? how do i keep patience and myself safe? it is alarming how often my mind wanders to such a nightmare in a place where you should feel say this.
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curtis in woodbridge, virginia. -- 30-50 line, go ahead. caller: i'm calling in response to the lady who called and said the shootings were done by white males. i would like to correct the statistics. most of the shootings are done by black males in the inner-city. the most bile, corrupt, evil people on the earth. they shoot and kill at a higher rate than anyone else in the planet. they kill their own people, but also kill a lot of white people. host: how often do you think about one of these incidents happening in your daily life?
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caller: i think about it on a regular basis. i travel around a lot. i see the terrorism that goes on around the world. they are trying to bring it over here. we are seeing more incidents like that happen. i addition to the fact that deliver to inner-city ghettos. going on, iing think about getting logged at 4:00 in the morning. it crosses my mind a. over, ohio,50 and you are on the washington journal. caller: i think about this quite often. what i think about is what is the difference between now and then? what i mean by then is when i was a young man. when i was young, you could go -- no back on checks, no questions asked. schools had shooting ranges.
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we never had mass shootings then that we have not read ask myself why. i think it has to do with the media and hate being spewed. what i mean is you have a mass internettv, computers, , games. everywhere you look, there is violence. you can't go anywhere without seeing violence on television or the internet. it has become the norm. people are being ingrained that it is the norm. whoop of that, politicians are constantly spewing hate against planned parenthood. obamacare.igrants, this exacerbates the situation. this inflames the situation. that is the difference between then and now. host: some of the comments being posted on facebook, if you want to join in on that conversation i think of ans
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explosion every time i'm in public. amy says whenever i'm in places that i'm not allowed to protect myself. brenda says what scares me even more is the liberals wanting americans to be defenseless by taking guns from good people instead of bad ones. finally, democrats from liberty say we can't help but think regularly given they are a occurrence. the problem is unique to the u.s. as our -- as is are readily available supply of guns. we are basing this question on a tweet from the new york times. how often do you think about the possibility of the shooting in your daily life? he got about 5000 responses to that. maryland, 30-50. caller: good morning. . think about it every day
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the reason is because i do not that the one reform people are suggesting will fix the problem. people are talking about taking guns out of the hands of people who are mentally ill. there have been studies of individuals with no history of mental issues, no criminal , go to a gun shop, buy a gun legally, take it to their office, and kill people. how is gun reform going to fix that? is make sureto do you do a background check on people. what about people who have no record of mental issues, criminal issues? taken by guns legally and shoot
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at people. no amount of gun reform is going to fix this. unique to thes united states. in other countries, if you are mentally ill or have a criminal record, you don't have access to guns. if you are upset against your neighbor, you can stop your neighbor. that is all you can do. guns are not available. if you are upset against your a home a you can buy gun that can only shoot one shot at a time, shoot one person, try to reload, and people will overpower you. host: we will leave it there. this is from the washington post , under the header rampage in
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san bernardino. the advice -- run, hide, fight, and get used to it.
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active shooter situation's are unpredictable. are you prepared? no, i am not. he writes in the post. that is why i'm taking this course. losing a loved one to a random act of violence is unthinkable. unfortunately, recent events rocky is calling in from bowie,
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maryland, 18-29-year-old line. how often do you think about the possibility of a shooting in your daily life? caller: i would say since obama has been in office, it can happen any day. i say that because you see his -- you, how he treats see how the refugees are acting around the world. why would you want to bring that terrorism here? even if only 1% of those people are terrorists, there is no way of knowing if they are. their whole that has been wiped out, burned to the ground.
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there is no way of knowing. i don't care how good the vetting system is. there is no way. here is the whole thing. i am going to ask you a question. do you own a firearm? host: why is that important? is i have point is owned firearms my whole life. i haven't hunted in 10 years. i have it for protection. the reason why am asking you that is because anyone can trip out and shoot their workplace up. you can come home and catch her significant other doing something, trip out, and shoot everyone up. my point is is gun control -- the only thing gun control does is if you have a mental background or felony and you go to a gun show or a store and they say you have a mental background, or a terrorist watchlist, or this, that blocks me from getting it.
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i want a gun, i can go and buy it on the street, just like people who go and get drugs that are banned. i point is is anyone who is good can turn bad. own 20 guns, 30 years later, i can trip out and shoot my work of. -- gunntrol doesn't controlled doesn't work. the only way it works is when -- have a bad guy with a gun only a good guy can eliminate the bad guy with a gun. yesterday, -- host: we are going to leave it there, moving on to the race, dublin, georgia, 30-50 line. you are on the washington journal. -- maurice. caller: a couple of facts for bigots out there. i leave that part alone. host: just remember, our question is how often do you think about mass shootings in
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your daily life? caller: i will give -- i will give you that answer before i give tax -- fax. i don't think about it much because this is america, his country is built upon violence. for those who want to believe otherwise, slavery was the ultimate act of terrorism. haser one, this country three 2000 gun desperate your. 32,000 murders per year. if you want to look that up, you are welcome to do so. fbi, whiteo the of theirstitute 84% own murders. 90% of black folks killing their own. i want to make sure -- host: how often do you think
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about a mass shooting in your daily life? caller: not much. ultimately, this is a violent country. i can run, shoot back because i have the right to own again. whatever happens best the point is going to happen. i'm not afraid to go to the next level. regardless of the situation, i'm going to be all right. i don't think about it much at all. host: from the gun violence archive and the shooting tracker, shooting tracker.com. this past year in the u.s., 353 mass shootings. identified as for older people shot. deaths,l that's -- 12,002 to 23 people killed, 21,722 people injured. jesse, 50 and older line. caller: good morning to you.
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[indiscernible] i am not a hateful person. i am saddened by these mass shootings going on. i don't need a gun. i was a young man, i married my wife. we have been married for 50 years. she has gone on to heaven. givinghday was on things -- thanksgiving. bless me with a great mind. [inaudible] [indiscernible] people are not informed.
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black andlled and -- white do the same thing. it is a double standard. riots, theythese focus on black people having riots. at the ballgames, they have riots. what do they say about them? they had to use tear gas. you don't hear anything about it. my final question is for these people -- i am not an evil man. i love people.
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the most violent, racist, terrorist in america -- you don't hear about them. black people kill white people many black people hang a white man from a tree and drag them behind a truck? [indiscernible] these are committed by evil people. host: jesse in muskegon, michigan. happy birthday to you. sachs sent out a tweet with the new york times asking folks to respond to this question -- how often do you think about the possibility of a shooting in your daily life? he got over 5000 responses. she, 41, oregon, says survived a shooting at the high school where she works. since then, she is ready for the
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potential of another incident. this is a tweet that he received from tori.
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the first time i experienced an active shooter jewel in school, i was five or six. york, 18-29-year-old. caller: i am not afraid of shootings. i have nothing against people who like nuns. -- guns. it is just fear. a lot of people are afraid of their own shadow. that is a shame. if you walk out the door, somebody pumps you the wrong way, they will shoot you for nothing. me, people that we send to the white house are doing the fear. when they don't want to do anything for the people out there -- i hate to say it --
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they live. -- lie. they make up things to scare people. that thinge people, that happened last week about the guy who shot up and parenthood. -- planned parenthood. they use that for political parties. it is a shame. me, it is crazy. host: john, new york. sean, let's hear from you. west virginia, 30-50 line. caller: you pronounce the way. thank you for taking my call. i think about the shootings every time i turn on the news. i would like to make a couple points and then i'll jump off. i hear your callers who say everybody needs to carry a gun to protect themselves. 55 -- 355d three and or whatever it is since the
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beginning of the year. host: according to shooting tracker, 353 mass shootings. caller: i want to know how many times these guys were stopped by good guys with guns? i can't count one. i grew up in baltimore city. i have been shot at twice. your first instinct when both are coming at you is and to shoot back. it is to get your asked out of out of there.ass that is a fact. donald trump and ted cruz, they are causing so much fear in this country, it is unbelievable. there needs to be common sense gun laws. it is not going to stop this able slow it is getting retarded. happens -- what is
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different about california and what has been going on over the country? just because they were muslim and it was probably a terrorist attack, those people are any more dead than the rest of the people who have been shot. i don't understand politicians. they will jump up and down over these two people shooting this community center, but they won't do a dam thing about these schools getting shot up, movie .heaters, colleges when are they going to wake up and do something? they need to stop cowering from the nra? tweet,n response to the kim miller of north dakota says that the thought of gun violence
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a couple of tweaks we have received. love says i literally only think about it when it occurs elsewhere. when there is a lull it rarely crosses my mind. i think about mass shootings only when i go out into public. any teacher not willing to learn with a mass shooting happening every day finally, trails and classrooms in case of gunfire?
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every time i consider going to disneyland, a concert, a game, i decide, better not. 50 and over. caller: good morning. i'm 60 years old. -- 68 years old. my mother and i had a conversation about this 20 years ago. when i was a small child, gunsmoke was the latest greatest hit on tv. my father loved it. she refused to allow my brother and i to watch it. we had to go to bed. like i said, 20 years ago, she violentthe show was too for you children to be seen. i think part of our culture has been changed because of the extreme violence in tv shows, movies, and video games.
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realistic.ry when these kids are actually playing them, it doesn't really affect them. that is one part of the violence. host: go to our question. how often do you think about a mass shooting? caller: every day. because i have two grandkids in school. i am down here in florida. they are going to school in an area that is dicey. i think about it every day because their mother, my daughter, is out and about in large, public places. there are two different things going on. the violence that has overcome extremist,, and the muslims,t is arabic antiabortion people, extremists
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in general. host: julie in florida. john in liverpool, new york. 50 and older. there seems to be a misconception in this country that the second amendment has no restrictions. freedom of religion has restrictions. freedom of speech has restrictions. these idiots think they are entitled to buy any gun. you are not. the second amendment has restrictions just like everyone. host: go to the question we are asking this money. how often do you think about the possibility of a shooting in your daily life? caller: i don't think of it that often, to be honest. i don't think of mass shootings that often. the key to your question is the word mass. you can't have a mass shooting without automatic weapons. why are automatic weapons legally sold in this country? that is a product that was made
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for the military and law enforcement. the average joe should not the allowed to buy automatic weapons . only with automatic weapons can you have mass shootings. host: john in new york. of suspected san bernardino gunman, navy that. vet. he received commendations for his role in the war on terror according to breast-feed news. the suspect's brother enlisted 2000 three, left in 2007. buzz feed reports he received a national defense service medal, the global war on terror
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theditionary medal, and service ribbon during his service. dustin, how29, often do you think about a mass shooting? caller: i don't think about them too often because of the fact in georgia we have tons everywhere -- guns everywhere. i grew up in the generation of combineslearned about -- columbine. in states where there is magazine restrictions, bans on , anti-gun states. i have always felt -- i have always identified with the the only waylieve to stop a bad guy with a gun is
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a good guy with a gun. a lot of people talking about automatic weapons being sold an automaticreally weapon is a class three weapon which you have to pay a tax work. tax for. host: do you carry at all times? caller: for the most part. host: have you ever thought about pulling it out? have you ever had to pull your gun out in self-defense? caller: no, sir. host: do you think that you would? what do you think about more people having concealed carry? people who are trained? are you well-trained? caller: yes, sir. i would consider myself well-trained. host: what do you think about more people having guns? believe thattly, i if people were to get concealed carry, proper training, it would
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benefit society. host: dustin in georgia, 18-29-year-old line. here is a map in usa today. hundreds killed in shootings --ce newtown, new the 350 nearly three to 50 people have in the mass shooting in your town in which 27 people died. here are where the shootings took place. the term mass shooting confuses the public depending on how you are counting. the attack in which 14 people died in san bernardino was the 22nd people -- mass shooting --s year or it was more than the problem is one of definitions are used sloppily and interchangeably. the result is hyperventilating the public. there is no official definition of a mass shooting. the congressional research service says it is for a more
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people get with a firearm, not including the killer. that is similar to the fbi's definition. 75% are committed by a firearm according to usa today research. this year, there have been 29 mass killings resulting in 135 deaths according to their stats. eric, fairfax, virginia in the suburbs. 30-50 line. you are on washington journal. caller: thank you for taking my call. thank you for c-span. i think that anyone who consumes , youedia, the news, radio are going to think about what is going on with mass shootings every day whether you want to or not. i'm not saying that is a problem. that is just what our folks that control the media in this country feel like we need to
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talk about. wish -- i don't know we can do. at a minimum, back rent checks. -- background checks. i'm a combat veteran. i will say we have a right to bear arms. ist is separate from what inculcated in our culture. that is violence. violence in tv, video games. you do that year after year, we influence our cells with so much violence. we are faced with a situation to run away from a problem or face it with violence. we have done that with -- to ourselves good the last thing i want to say is i hope that congress -- they don't do anything. that is the problem with the culture in congress. us,pe they would care about our children, our grandchildren.
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enacting commonsense legislation. eric in fairfax, virginia. the washington times this morning, legally armed citizens urge to determine mass shootings. this is a quote. coming in to kill as many people as they can as quickly as they can.
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sam, auburn, california, 18-29-year-olds. tweeted out how often do you think about the possibility of a shooting in your daily life? anler: it is pretty much everyday thing now. it is a reality. less than a year ago, we had an incident here where a guy killed cops.vilian and two the whole town was in lockdown. i was hiking in the canyons at the time. he had ditched a car and was running through the canyon. there were choppers all over the place. i felt helpless. --t: are you young enough
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where you young enough to be in school during columbine? caller: yes. duck and that lead to cover type exercises? caller: yes. that was an instant change. scale.like 9/11 it changed everything. eliminated hazing. i was in middle school when columbine happened. when i got to high school, playing sports, there was nowhere hazing. it was illuminated completely. -- eliminated completely. any risk was taken seriously. columbine change the law. it makes me think about culturally hazing being
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eliminated somehow. this kind of behavior being a limited. i don't know. host: this is from the washington post this morning. couples seemed quiet, religious, withdrawn. a disconnect between wednesdays rampage any behavior that proceeded it three hours before he opened fire on his coworkers.
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he goes on to say that his wife remained an enigma, a millennial woman with no discernible footprint -- a woman who lived in pakistan. that is from the washington post, and extensive article on this issue today. tyrone, cofield, north dakota. calling in on our 50 and over
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line. caller: good morning. give me a minute to let me say what i want to say. i think about this all the time. look at the republican candidates running for president. ted cruz, donald trump. they speak this division everyday. calling these people rapists and murderers. news, they are doing the same thing. politicians -- they don't say anything about children getting tilde sandy hook. -- getting killed. leave these people alone. we have a president doing right by all people. obama is not dividing this country.
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it is the people causing this. we need to stop and come together. god bless you. hill,this is from the cruz wants immigration details of california shooting suspects. californian senators demanding that obama hand over the history of the alleged attackers in san bernardino. , sent a letterz to attorney general loretta lynch, department of homeland security secretary and secretary of state kerry asking for the history of the couple. killed during a shootout with police. in our struggle against terrorism, we are dealing with an enemy that has shown he is not only a couple of bypassing u.s. screening, but recruiting and radicalizing muslim migrants
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. the recruitment of terrorism in the u.s. is not limited to adults migrants. to their young children and their us-born children. that is why family immigration history is necessary to understand the nature of the threats. the senators specifically want the immigration history of the parents as well as any immigration documentation related to them. charlotte,tie, 30-50. how often do you think about the possibility of a shooting? caller: never. are convinced that people thinking about the criminals with the guns, not law-abiding citizens. passing more laws will not end the criminals with the illegal weapons. i am a concealed carry weapons permit holder. i carry everywhere i go. i know if something were to happen, i could stop the
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situation before he got out of hand. passing more laws to prevent me would beecting myself making things even worse. host: how long have you been a concealed carry person? caller: about 10 years. host: do you carry everywhere? caller: everywhere. host: have you ever pulled it out only used it? caller: i have only used it on the shooting range. never had to pull it out. host: sometimes you hear law enforcement talk about this issue. it is like don't carry a gun, don't bring a gun to work. , itt bring a gun to church is going to hurt more people than safe. caller: i am licensed to carry. nobody knows i have it. if i need it, i have it. host: christie, charlotte, north carolina. thank you for calling in and sharing your experience with us. quickly, back to the washington post article.
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tyrone calling in from north carolina who mentioned -- ted cruz wanting the families history of immigration. -- born incalled him , 1987.
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if you want to read the full article, it is in the "washington post." i don't think about it at all because it is going to happen again, so i think about it teco and you have -- think about it? and you have these politicians act like they care come but they don't do anything about it. host: that is charles in california. donald trump, "the hill" newspaper, my numbers go way up after tragedies, he said. in texas, 3250-year-old line. -- 30 to 50-year-old line. caller: thank you for taking my call this morning. i very rarely think about mass shootings.
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and -- [indiscernible] i do believe it serves as yet another distraction to what is really going on in the world. and it is another way to prepare anotherrican mind to -- way to prepare the american minds to resolve them self to giving up their weapons. thank you for taking my call. host: kelly, are you a gun owner? caller: no, i'm not. however, i certainly would die for anyone who choose to own as many weapons as they choose to. host: where is orange, texas? caller: we are in the southeast, the largest city is belmont. we are right on the border of texas and louisiana. host: this was a long time ago, maybe in the 1990's, the -- shooting?
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caller: i do believe. yes, sir. host: but that is not anywhere close to where you are? caller: it is not, sir. host: that is kelly in orange, texas. and this is bill in georgia. caller: 50 and over. good morning. -- host: 50 and over. caller: good morning. i'm not afraid. i have had concealed carry for some time. i think the terrorists have won in this country. you get people calling from the small towns all over. and we talk about automatic weapons. every time you see a police show up, they always have automatic weapons or the black guns. and black guns matter. it is just -- ted cruz, the first thing out of his mouth was congratulating the police officers instead of the people who were killed. so, you know, people just need
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to be able to be aware of their surroundings. and stay out of these target rich environment. host: that is bill in georgia. this is wild and wonderful tweeting in, know who you are, know what is around you -- know where you are, know who is around you, knowing you are doing, north they are doing. and the pentagon's pervasive video games are not helping anyone. , never do i think about it because it is out of my control. to dwell on it would be a waste of time. i could just as well be worried about car accidents. we appreciate you being with us for this conversation. before we move on, and you can see there where we are going to move on to and we are going to talk about what is going on in the fight against isis. linda robinson of the rand
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corporation will be here. after that, we will talk about electronic privacy into e-mails. finally, we will also look at violence in schools a little bit later in this program. want to share with you some news before we move on to the segment. going to run for these very quickly, all from the " -- all from "the hill" newspaper. forcan go to thehill.com more of these issues. senate votes to repeal obama care cadillac tax. the house is loading up on end of the year votes. 5-year $305ves billion highway bill. renewalte sends ex-im to obama's desk. and the senate sends highway
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bill to obama. and the senate vote clears path for obamacare repeal. those are some of the headlines coming out of this week in congress. a very busy week as we go into the holiday season. so, in just a minute, linda robinson is going to be out here to talk about the fight against isis in iraq and syria. of as regular viewers "booktv history tv" and " to know, we travel around the country on a cities tour. we look at their literary and historical lives. this weekend, we are going to be in monterey, california looking at its history and looking at some of its literary sites as well. here is just a short person -- portion of the mayor talking about his city.
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moderate -- r monterey, california paradise. probably one of the most beautiful places on earth. i find the history fascinating paid one of the -- fascinating. one of the characters i more or less identified with was the original mayor. and came board a ship to california in about 1847. monterey, being the spanish capital, when mexico declared independence, it became the mexican capital of california. and so at this point when it became part of a territory, not a state yet, it was the capital of california, which at that time extended all the way to arizona, utah, etc. built anda building he took the fines from gambling and selling liquor, so instead
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of these miscreants having to spend time in our jail, they helped build the hall. and then all the fines he used for the materials. he started the first library. he started the first newspaper in california. so he really understood infrastructure and taking care of places and maintaining them. and he was really good at twisting arms because when they built the first library, he got about 100 people to contribute $100 each, and they built to the library. and we have done similar things now. journal": "washington continues. host: now joining us as a guest we have had on relatively frequently. this is linda johnson of the rand corporation. she has covered a lot of military campaigns. where were you last? guest: i think we are going to talk about isil today, so i have
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been out in the region this year. i have been to iraq and jordan and kuwait. in iraq, i visited all of the various units that were doing the advisory training work paid host: are you working -- training work. host: are you working with the pentagon? guest: rand is a nonprofit nonpartisan research institution. the bulk of its work is for the u.s. government, and of the the biggest part is research. host: so when you are out in the field, do you get a sense of who is fighting to? -- who is fighting who? guest: it is very complex. in my view, we have had a number of iraqi units over the past year that the u.s. military has reengaged with and is starting to understand their exact state because there was a loss of civility of was leading these ofts, what -- visibility
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fit was leading these units i watched that unit grow up over my many visits, for my time as a reporter in 2003 through 2008. they became the most efficient unit, and they still are. they have been in every battle. they have suffered a lot of losses. so that is the high-end. the low-end arguments that completely disintegrated. and then there are the kurdish forces, which is kind of a militia. they have a less formal organization. but they do also have special forces units that the u.s. military has been closely engaged with. 2003, heavily through that -2010 period. i think that that is really where the main hope rests right
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now, but because you need a whole force, as they say, you need enough mass of indigenous keeping the peace after a clearing operation for so it is very important to be working -- operation. so it is very important to be working with the full force. obviously, they are trying to develop the sunni travel forces as a -- tribal forces as a hold force in conjunction with the iraqi government. and then syria is a whole different do of groups. -- whole different stew of groups. host: if you could explain, looking at this map, where u.s. forces might be. it shows the surrounding area as well. we will put it in your monitor over here, but you can see it right over here as well. guest: ok. good.
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u.s. advisory role -- and i should just maybe throughout a few facts here. there has been about 3500 u.s. military in iraq over the past year. and that includes special operations forces, conventional military, and another couple thousand coalition partners also doing three things. train and equip on six sites. most of them are around baghdad, but also up in the kurdistan region in the north and out in the west. otherwise, they are clustered in bases around the greater baghdad area. then there is the advisory mission. this is where the special operations forces have been heavily devoted to matters with the units i mentioned, the kurdish and iraqi -- i shouldn't say that, the iraqi special operations forces is a very
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mixed unit. a lot of times people just assume that things are broken down into the various sects. this is the one unit in iraq that has the full complement of sunni, shia, and kurds. our special operations forces specialition operations forces have been outed rising, but they have been very restricted -- have been out advising, but they have been very restricted in what they are able to do. and a lote has been -- of people in the field have been pushing -- to get the advisor to have been after lower levels. -- to get the advisory mission to happen at lower levels. in order to have that full effect on the unit. and they are doing things -- a lot of the debate in the u.s.
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has are involved -- unfortunately -- around the use of the guys on the ground that we put out there to colin airstrikes. -- call in airstrikes. it is very important that think for people to learn a little bit more about the full spectrum of advisory roles. and that i think is where we are heading now, to expanding that. there is also the new use that is being -- authorized by the u.s. government to have the troops out in a combat role. i think it will just be the special operations expeditionary force that secretary carter talked about in his testimony host: just a few days ago to host: how quickly -- testimony just a few days ago. host: how quickly will those troops be added check of -- the added? guest: we don't know when they
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are actually going to get on the ground, but it will be soon. i think what you have heard consistently from both secretary carter and the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff is the need to accelerate and intensify. especially in the wake of paris. now i think the world's attention is riveted on the isil problem. so i think you'll see them certainly within a matter of weeks. but i do think it is important while we are entering a new phase now to point out that the special operations forces have been there for a year. emblematic raid that people think of is the raid into syria, which special operations forces conducted. they did end up killing the leader and captured his wife, and a huge trove of intelligence
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information. and that is the key reason for these rates. they are going to yield a trove of intelligence, and hopefully capture isil members that can then be interrogated. and that will greatly expand the knowledge of who is doing what. a scaley something on or rapidity of the essay done in thering the days -- of surge done and iraq -- in iraq. now, in iraq are going to do this in conjunction with the special operations forces i have mentioned. they are not doing unilateral raids in iraq. in syria, they will be doing unilateral. when it is a case of a u.s. hostage, they will hours reserve the right to do a unilateral mission to host: -- linda
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robinson -- -- unilateral mission. host: linda robinson is our guest. screen ifs are on the you want to participate in this conversation. sam in manassas, virginia, the republican line. caller: yes, good morning. let me say this. first of all, we could get rid of isis in one day. they would drop an atomic weapon on that city a net would be it. haram, they keep kidnapping and raping all these people. when they run through the woods, napalm them. the reason we don't get rid of these people is because then who are we going to fight? we have a $700 billion military budget. we need to keep that up. if you didn't fight these people, we wouldn't need of them. host: i think we got the point, sam. were you able to hear that? guest: yes, i was.
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i think this is a very important point. obviously, the u.s. has a tremendous amount of power, and we have been conducting in air war -- an air war. what you achieve from the air is physical destruction. and if you don't have the rules of engagement that have been applied, you can have mass civilian casualties. and those things can create their own problems. but there is also the central question of: then what? who is going to come along behind to guarantee the peace and into these areas don't become terrorist sanctuaries. and that is why this approach is being taken, to really work through indigenous forces in iraq and in syria so that you have an end game. and i think this is why there is a lot of disappointment about u.s. military activities over the past year. the endgame can take a while.
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it can take a generation. but i think there is a great deal of frustration in the wake of the various terrorist attacks that have occurred, paris being the most notable, but also we had the russian jet shot down in egypt. so i think there is it is our right not to quickly finish the problem. useisil, or isis, and i do isil because that is the government's term, they are heavily dug in. they have fortified the city's that they have been holding -- cities that they have been holding now for well over a year. these are going to take a long time to recapture and, most importantly, hold with capable ground forces. host: charles, ohio, the independent line. caller: good morning, sir. i find it amazing that even the
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guest that you have on will not call what happened in santa barbara a terrorist attack. those people didn't do that on the spur of the moment. host: you know what, charles, i'm going to have to move on because we are done talking about what happened in san bernardino and we have moved on. we are talking about the current u.s. policy toward syria and iraq. linda robinson, when you hear the term, "boots on the ground," what does that mean to you checkups we have to do -- what does that mean to you? we have 35 people already over there. -- 3500 people already over there. guest: it is a vague term that only creates confusion. it is very, very harmful to any public understanding and debate about what we are doing. these boots on the ground, of course, as you say, we have had
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that he 500 advisers over there. they are all u.s. military in uniform. i would say the majority of them are combat arms and infantrymen. if you were to deploy them in combat mode, they would be combat troops could but they are all qualified -- troops. but they are all qualified to be troops. as i read all the congressional testimony, i believe the administration employed that term to mean it was not going to count it as an option of sending large combat formations over to fight in the front -- that they were not going to take the leading role in combat. now ie crossed the line think into combat. of course, there was the first combat death with the u.s. special operation forces participating with the kurdish special operations forces in the
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raid on a prison to free the captives there. and the delta soldier died in coming forward to help the kurds, who were parked down -- bogged down. we have crossed the line and we are now in a combat market but what i believe the administration -- combat mode. but what i believe the administration intends is keeping the iraqis and -- keeping the iraqis in the lead. the more competent the ground force is, the syrian forces, the less the u.s. force is needed. the counterterrorism service, the iraqi special operations forces, they do have people able to direct airstrikes. they are not as proficient. the use of english language is very important good that is the
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language of air power. so you do need to have kind of a this stage.ort at but the emphasis is on growing that capability of these ira qis. host: republican, mike, go ahead. caller: yeah, the policies that she is talking about -- i mean, it is more or less when everything is working well. [indiscernible] -- and i know you don't want to talk about the shootings, but it is related. when the united states sees that not much is doing done about isis -- i talked to the guy yesterday on c-span, and he voted that bill down to vet these people. statese the united citizen supposed to do? response for that
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caller? guest: i would say i think the paris attacks have a road to fear, and is a real fear that isil is moving into a phase of external attacks. my view of them as they will attack where it is expedient. we have seen that in iraq over the past year. they didn't stand and fight, they melted away and began attacking elsewhere. so they are very agile and they are going to shift. the way i look at that policy option is to a three options. containment, which is standing off and using air power. there is the current approach, which is relying on an building partner forces on the ground. and then there is a large-scale u.s. direct military intervention that i believe there is very little support for among either party to go in and do that. but there is an agreement that you have to deal with the iraq-syria problem and the
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amount of territory there holding because that is really the central base from which all of this emanates. sean, florida, the independent line. more u.s. troops to the middle east. what do you think? caller: good morning. let's be realistic about this. this entire discussion and our actions are predicated on a premise. that premise is that we originally went in to get the mass -- weapons of mass destruction. there were no such thing. all of the asked that have been created -- acts that have been created since then have been disastrous. on the death of so many of our citizens. and here we go again, stepping into a place where we have no business being. making mistakes that are going to lead to further mistakes down the road. what is necessary is for us to take a brave step and step out of there.
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protect and to help as much as we can. but we have no business being there. we are there because we made mistakes. and this is not going to and. -- end. and this discussion about how many troops we are going to send is again all predicated on a premise. host: linda robinson? guest: certainly, those with long memories, as this caller certainly has, the original sin, if you will, of the invasion of iraq in 2003 was this premise that there were weapons of mass destruction, which turned out to be incorrect. , and we has passed now did fight a very large were there. ofl rose up out of the ashes al qaeda in iraq, and it now holds more territory with more guns and more capability than anything we have ever seen. i would say i think in reaction
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to the caller said, i think that there has been an effort, but probably not a sufficient effort, to ask the arab countries to do more. those surrounding countries have the greater interest. and you see, for example, saudi arabia has been very preoccupied with its own military operation in yemen. aboutd, it is a concern what is going on there is some of the south is the big dog in the arab middle east. they finally opened an embassy in baghdad after many years. they have been holding the baghdad government at arms length. and it is very important for the arab world to step up. we have had difficulty with turkey, which is the main route for foreign fighters into syria. so the engine of isil passes through turkey. and there has been a consistent effort to try and get more cooperation from these
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countries. the more they do, the less the u.s. and the european and other allies need to do. but i think everyone is galvanized right now by the idea that this group left alone is not going to do anything like this if your tests will affect -- is not going to do anything but get bigger and conduct more attacks. i don't think it is the wrong approach, but i think the advisors were too restricted. they weren't able to touch all of the units. they have had to be grace requested away from the shia militias. we need to recognize that fact and cope with it. there has also been a very slow equipment pipeline. this equipment has to be delivered much more quickly to the humvees -- much more quickly. they need humvees, they need secure radios. they just now delivered line
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charges because the isil units ies withing the cit ied's. there is a real need to speed up the material. and the u.s. system has been far too slow. the production line of humvees in this country is back at a peacetime level. earlier in the early days of the iraq war when there were no -- the armored personnel vehicles, there weren't enough. they were bolting on armor to humvees to try and survive these massive bombs. so there is a whole series of things that need to be done to make this effort effective. it is not just a matter of spending a few hundred or thousand more, although i do think more advisors but more importantly just to brigid widely and distributed throughout the units we are
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trying to support. host: what you think about the narrative that the iraq war is the direct link, cause of what we are facing today? iraq: well, it is -- so, was being governed by a dictator, saddam hussein, who invaded the neighboring country, kuwait. we went in desert storm. pushed saddam hussein out of there. contains him, if you will, -- contained him, if you will, through a no fly zone. at some point, that was probably a dictatorship that was going to end in one form or another. when it did, this year majority are going to take control of that country. we have been involved in a very long running process in iraq. region willn probably eventually become
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independent, but i think the question is still open, what kind of new national identity will iraqis, shia, and sunnis form? the only stable path i see is another autonomous province or set of provinces in the north and west. but that takes a long time. there is a lot of stress and grievance there. we want it to be over. we may assume responsibility for having exacerbated it, we just think is a very fair critique, but nonetheless it is the drama of that country. and history only moves at a certain pace. we can do things to make it worse, and i believe more active diplomatic engagement might help. we sometimes say the iranians are in charge now, but we are not even competing in the influence game in my view with more support, more equipment, more presence there in the ways that the iraqi government wants.
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i think that would gain more influence to help some of these things happen. host: gary, indiana, the democratic line. thank you for holding. caller: hello, sir. and hello, ma'am. a young man called a little believe,, named sam i and he touched on something i agree with. we seem to be going to much about what we are supposed to be doing. if we are going to fight a damn war, fight it. not screw around about it. and he said something about the military budget, which i believe is beside the point. it is about protecting our collective livelihood and our rights as a nation. times weieve a lot of make these decisions, i don't think we think them through necessarily always.
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not all the way through. i just think we need to make sure we are doing the right thing. then when we do it, do it 100%. host: thank you, gary. guest: thank you. i think obviously everyone tries to make the right decisions, but we can't always understand the effects of our actions. i would share a critique i think that the caller is making that what has done over the last year , really until just a few weeks ago, has been to minimal, but also as changes have been made the have been very incremental. for example, when i was in iraq, a decision was finally made to send if you advisers out to a base in and bar -- in anbar. pushing forbeen this for quite well, to give these advisers more distributed so they could get in position and understand what they needed,
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start advising them. and that was a very slow decision in coming. i'm concerned now that even though a series of decisions have apparently been taken, it is important that they not be incremental. i think it is important to remedy the insufficiency, get enough people out there in enough places, but not ricochet off into a major combat will because i do think the long-term effects of that -- it creates dependency, it may create more recruitment of isil fighters, it again gives the u.s. into combat mode. whenever the u.s. gets into the lead, it tends to be the type a personality and it doesn't let the host country partner come along and do what it needs to do to develop its own capability. host: candy is in clear lake, iowa. a republican. go ahead. caller: well, i'm an independent. i doubt the wrong number.
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here is my comment. we sent people, money, and equipment. a bunch of the money and the equipment got turned over to the exact people would want to have it. we know they have a warehouse full of antiquities. we tried surgical interventions. and unfortunately, as much as i would like a diplomatic solution with the host country, stepping up and doing their job on their own lands, it is time for the allies with us in the league -- because we are always responsible for everybody's problems -- to just knock it off, burn it down, and start over. why have a prolonged world war iii when we don't have to? guest: well, at the risk of repeating myself, i think the answer is what happens next because you can go in big and heavy, you can burn it down, as the caller said, but there is
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still going to be a country there. a farsightedg approach is important. that said, and are more that the kind of approach has been discredited because it has been so minimally applied, i think that there is something between what we have been doing and a nnslaught -- and onslaught -- a onslaught that the u.s. opens up the guns -- i think it is very important to consider the impact and the cost of rebuilding this country as the war goes forward. but a greater intensification i think is at least worth trying. i, frankly, do not think that a large-scale combat deployment, 100,000 troops, that those kinds of numbers -- i think they could
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have more negative effects than positive. host: from the "new york times" urges deftg, kerry removal of syria's assad. a coalition of americans, russians, and syrian forces could wipe out the islamic state in a matter of literally months. guest: we have been talking mostly about iraq. of course, that is hideously complex. syria is even more complex. and what is going on is really two wars. , if you the isis war will, in the eastern part of the country. but int have a map up, isis self-declared capital in the eastern part, what has been happening over the past year is the syrian kurds primarily have been able to squeeze down that territory that isis holds, but it is still largely in charge.
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it is not a very populated area, what it has a lot of oil. host: and that is in the iraqi border area, correct? guest: that is right. it is in the green area. there we go. if you look at the right-hand half roughly, that is isil territory with the syrian kurds up on the northern part of the border with turkey. and the have been getting territory and starting to close off that border with turkey, although i think it is about 98 kilometers still in the hands of isis. they still have a conduit to and from turkey. to shift to your question about what secretary kerry is trying to do, over in the western half of the country, that is where most of the population is. has been inf assad power, and it was one of those arab spring countries where people rose up against them -- him and he began crushing them
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brutally. of course, it is the source of most of the refugee crisis that europe is suffering. secretary kerry has admirably launched a diplomatic effort to try to get the various countries involved in this very complicated work to come together around a scheme that will plot a transition for a assad to leave. get a new government, and then focus everyone's attention on attacking isil. the problem is a lot of the arab countries and turkey are more interested in fighting assad and getting assad out. of course, we have the russian intervention, which is shocking. and now it has further complicated the situation. russia has always had a base on the mediterranean coast.
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it is not a very robust base. it has basically been a naval resupply facility, that the use that. they brought in lots of air power, a defense, and because they saw assad starting to wobble because the gains of these groups over the last two, and mostly the islamic extremist groups other ones that have been gaining because, once again, we have the very minimalist in the sport we have been -- in the support we have been willing to provide. in the wake of its attack -- the wake of the attack on its people, it is going to make putin, the russian president, a partner in the fight against isil. assad,rying to shore up protect the base, and reinforce assad's grip on the country, which i think is a futile effort because assad has virtually no
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army left. he has been supported by iranians led militias and lebanese hezbollah. so it is a question in my mind whether russia is there indefinitely to prop up a regime that has no popular support. similarly to iran. or are they ready to join a diplomatic effort to arrange a transition to the country and start fighting isil? some people are willing for russia to just join in the bombing campaign, let them continue to do what they are doing and western syria, but i was a we haven't seen russia bomb very much at all of the isil facilities, but they are also using dumb bombs. we have precision bombs. britain just joined the air campaign to there's ago -- air campaign two days ago in syria, france is there, so frankly i don't think russia is the game
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changer. host: linda robinson's most recent book -- next call comes from rachel in texas, the independent line. caller: yes. you know, a lot of people believe that isis sprang up when obama pulled out our troops out of iraq. but we all knew that that didn't happen just all of a sudden. it happened right when we got into iraq. they were already over there. and we change them. and i knew that there was something going on because bush -- they decided the surge because they knew it was over their heads. they knew it was a bigger problem than they thought it was. areit upsets me when we having people attack us, and the people are going around talking about how sick our president is?
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it does not make us look good. host: we are going to leave it right to there. with all these interrelationships, are there isis/isil fighters that were at one point u.s. allies? much like the sooners -- sunnis are now u.s. allies. guest: no, in fact, much of the leadership was detained by the u.s. army back in iraq. it is true that isil grew out of the ashes in iraq. it was very largely sunni, but it had a heavy component -- zarqawi was the leader from jordan -- so it is a blend of radical jihadist fighters that are both iraqi and also for impaired it really has become a movement. but the core leadership remains iraqi, and many of them are
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former sunni saddam hussein's people. part of what is making this group so hard, but when we came in and talked with saddam, they went into the opposition. many people wonder if there was a different path. if we had a different strategy, might we have stalled this entire development? the might have been's are many in this history. host: georgia, a republican. caller: how are you doing? host: please go ahead. caller: yes, i have a couple of questions. in history, how many their campaigns have ever won a war? and then -- host: why do you ask that question, philip? caller: because it has been brought up that we are launching all kinds of airstrikes. and we are sending in 30 more guys.
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just 30 people. how many special forces have ever won a war? host: so given your rhetorical questions -- we will get an answer to those -- but given the rhetorical question you asked, what do you want to say? caller: my point is it takes an army to defeat an army. host: great, we got it. guest: they are very good point. i hope nothing as it implied that i think we can win this by air powe alone because we certainly can't. airpower has degraded some of the capabilities and assisted the ground forces, but it has been very constrained. the opening of the base in turkey to bombers is huge because that has radically cut down the time. i would not minimize the role of airpower, but it alone does not win any war. there are some airpower advocates that think you can win was by air, but i think there is a large literature and evidence
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against that. but i think it is very important to know that it is one component of the strategy going forward. host: anne in kansas, the democrat line. you are the last call. caller: ms. robinson? i want to ask you to questions. the people that is coming over here, especially the men, why can't the men stay there and fight for their homes? the second question is, when obama -- they were talking about sending their men home, which was the people in the united states said bring our troops home, and they keep on blaming him for bringing the troops home. we wanted our troops to come home. why can't the men stay there and fight for their own country? thank you. guest: i think that you are correct.
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certainly, this was -- president obama campaigned on ending the war. , 18i have been in iraq visits to iraq over the years. there are iraqis that want to fight for their country, and they need support from their own government to do so and they need support from other countries to do so. i think your question also involves the refugee population. of qwest, we have seen, in syria -- of course, we have seen, in syria in particular, bombing that has led to the massive internal displacement and external displacement. i think 11 million is one of the figures. and so i think that in the face of those kinds of avenues, you do have to understand why many people would choose to flee. again, we have also had willing syrians. the problem with her effort to recruit syrians divide as we
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wanted to recruit them to only fight isil. so very few came forward because they want to get rid of assad. some are willing to fight both, but we had a litmus test that excluded people that were going to fight assad. i think that was setting up an impossible task. i think you would have more people fighting if you would've said let's have some sort of concerted approach. host: france, britain, other middle east countries fighting in this area. how much of a model is this -- a muddle is this? guest: there are 65 countries in the coalition, but really only thise doing things with actual problem. and a smaller subset of that are sending airstrikes or advisors. i think the big gap, though, if saudi arabia and turkey, frankly. we have been waiting and turkey, which presumably was going to
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try to seal that border and possibly help protect any saison that might be -- safe zone that might be created in syria. so i think there is a possibility of some of these allies to step up. of course, in the information campaign and the recruitment campaign to try to stem the recruitment of these would be isil fighters, the muslim world, but mostly the arab sunni world needs to grapple with that problem seriously. that is really the long game here. host: final tweet, ok, let's assume assad is removed and isis is defeated, to whom do we turn over power? guest: that is also a very important question. federal formulation is most likely to emerge if syria remains an impact state.
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you might have a bunch of micro-states, as yugoslavia split up into a lot of small states. so i think the future is really unknown, but it is unlikely to come act and certainly under the rule of a minority shiite ruler. host: linda robinson, rand corporation, as always we appreciate you coming over. two more segments coming up today. we are going to look at e-mail privacy here in a minute and some legislative efforts to change the rules. and then violence in schools is going to be our final segment. 5% is the unemployment figure for november. it remains steady. 211,000 jobs have been created. those numbers just out by the bureau of labor statistics. we will be right back to talk about e-mail privacy.
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announcer: coming up this weekend on c-span, saturday night at 9:00 eastern, the "nation" magazine hold a discussion on inequality in america and what that means for society. speakers include robert rice and former white house advisor van jones. >> you have a third leg in the progressive movement, which is the racial justice leg. it has no home, it has no candidate. you are talking about the dreamers on the latino side, the black lives matter movement. you have a racial justice third ring of the punctured -- of the party with no path and no voice. and exploded into public view. announcer: coming up sunday
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evening at 6:30, the republican jewish coalition for them, sharing their thoughts on terrorism, israel, and national security. for the full weekend lineup, go to our website, c-span.org. i'm here to voice my strong support -- mrs. bush: i'm here to voice my strong support for the people of afghanistan. each and every one of us has the responsibility to stop the suffering caused by malaria. because every life in every land matters. can do something to help. >> after studying first ladies, and knowing some of them quite well, like my mother and the, or lady bird johnson, is that we benefit, our country benefits, by whatever our first ladies' interests are. announcer: laura bush is the second wife in american history
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to be the daughter of one president and the wife of another. with less than nine months in office, the 9/11 attacks occurred, and first lady laura bush helped comfort the nation while continuing to pursue interests long important to her, including education, literacy, and women's health. laura bush. this sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span's original series, "first ladies." examining the public and private lives of the women who filled the position of first lady and their influence on the presidency. sunday at 8:00 p.m. eastern on "american history tv" on c-span3. "washington journal" continues. host: and now on your screen is alisha green paired she is from "cq roll call." e-mailhere to talk about
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privacy and law enforcement access to data. what is the current law when it comes to e-mails? if you and i e-mailed each other, are they protected like mail is protected? guest: well, they are not, which might surprise a lot of people. there is a nearly 30-year-old law from 1986 that outlined how law enforcement could access people's electronic communications. if your e-mail has been sitting somewhere for more than 180 days, they don't even need a word to access it and read it. host: sort e-mail that people have retained for more than 180 days currently are open for business? for other people to read, correct? guest: totally open for law enforcement and government to access those e-mails. that statute was written at a time when people were not storing e-mails for that long. ist: what if you and
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corresponded via post office? is that protected? guest: that is a different standard. the fourth amendment outlines exactly those kind of things. 1980'sy congress in the try to deal with the rising of technology to communicate. and what they did at that time made sense to them, but things have changed so much as far as how people use e-mail that now people are trying to update that law. host: there is some action in congress right now on something called the electronics committee case and privacy act. what is it and what does it do jekyll guest: that -- what does it do? guest: people are saying the 180 day rule does not make sense anymore. so there are a few bipartisan legislators have led a movement to really try to change this. and there is agreement that the 180 day rule does not makes into
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anymore. host: but you say a few legislators. his net more than 300 in the house alone? guest: you are right. i think it is 305 cosponsors now on this bill. there are a few retried in the last session to do this as well, but it is such a huge groundswell of support now. host: one of the issues being addressed by this bill is representative ted poe, a republican of texas, spoke about. [video clip] that makes no sense to me to the right of privacy is protected for six months, but it is not protected more than six months. , and iletter, snail mail put that in an envelope and i fended off to one of my grandkids somewhere. it floats around in america from post office the post office and who else knows where until it gets to grandson. it is protected. generally, it is protected. it is a form of communication.
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or storing e-mails in the cloud, it is a form of communication wherever the cloud may be. congress'k it is responsibility to determine what the expectation of privacy is. it is not, god bless them, federal judges' responsibility. it is congress' responsibility. age, i enter the digital don't buy the argument, well, we are in the digital age, you have to give up some of your constitutional rights so we can have government investigate things. whether it is civil investigation, criminal investigation, i don't buy it because the fourth amendment gets in the way of that. i think it is one of the most important rights that we have. so it is our duty to set up a standard. proposed for being changes in the law check guest:
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well, -- in the law? guest: well, if your e-mail has been sent, the matter how long it has been around, the government will need a warrant to access it. mark doesn't matter anymore. and there are a few other changes in this bill as well. and some of those changes has a few federal agencies and law enforcement officials concerned, even though they all agree that e-mail should be treated the same. host: we are going to put the numbers up on the screen if you want to talk with us and alisha green about law enforcement access to online data. here are the numbers. they are on the screen. go ahead and island. dial guest: in. in. is -- and dial guest: they are concerned this
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could hinder their investigations of things like fraudial fraud or grade -- trade fraud. this is something that could stop the bill from moving toward. host: why, if it has 300 sponsors in the house, has not been brought to a vote? guest: these concerns have certainly caught the attention of the house judiciary chairman. and he, in a hearing earlier this week, expressed some of the same concerns. he really wants to see a balanced draft so that government agencies can continue to do their investigations when needed. host: madison, wisconsin, the independent line. you are on with alisha green talking about e-mail privacy and law enforcement access to that. caller: good morning. i think what the state of
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affairs -- with the state of affairs that is going on in our country, we need to give up some things in order to protect ourselves. people talk about batting. -- vetting. vetting is not something that is really going to be an option because many people will have false documentation. everybody has open arms, welcome everybody. if there is an ak-47 next door, i think we really need to pay attention to the fact that cecil need to be protected -- that people need to be protected. and i think it is unfortunate that people are talking about gun control as an answer. what about protection of the citizens? if terrorists want guns, they will always have guns. and if gangsters want guns, they will always have guns. john --nestly say, ceo, say, drugs get into people's
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hands. host: giving up some of our rights in today's world is her point. guest: and that is a good point to bring up. certainly, after this edward snowden conversations, people had more concerned about privacy, and how do you balance that with legitimate needs of law enforcement agencies? so, certainly, there are many govern how long can access people's communication. there's a foreign intelligence information act which impacts that. this will deal with how government can access information. host: oscar in virginia, democrat. go ahead. caller: good morning. i'm curious as to why we cannot keep the criminal side of this
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surveillance active, because i the guyat for example, who perpetrated the killing this week, he actually had a sister, they would go practice shooting in his yard. why can't we look into the cell phone of his sister and mother? i'm curious why please never went to the grandmother's house. this should apply to criminal cases, it is subjective. there should be more surveillance when it comes to this kind of scenario? i think that is an interesting question. that are many laws government agencies and law enforcement officials can use. set -- suspect someone of criminal activity. this opposed legislation in congress will deal specifically , there are stored
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to mutation on cell phone devices, and i think ultimately, the fbi has said there are other ways they can get information if needed. host: teresa, lancaster, pennsylvania. republican line. hello. caller: hello. thank you for taking my call. i have questions about the warrants that have to be gotten before information can be accessed. do the warrants have to be of theed to the owners information like the e-mail? prior to accessing that information? thank you. guest: thank you. that is a great question.
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that is only parts of the bill. actually, a warrant or subpoena would have to be served directly to the individual. rather than to a service provider. the supporters of this legislation say it is a key element. they need to know their information is being accessed. host: what is the difference between a warrant and subpoena? guest: they are different in judicial standards. agencies have you required to serve a warrant if you want access to communication directly from an internet service provider. if they already tried going to the person who is sending the e-mails, possibly involved in a financial scheme, but they did not think the person was turning over all the information, ultimately, if they want to go to the service provider to try to get that information, they need a warrant. so, again, for civil agency,
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that is not something they have access to and they preferred to be able to use a court order to get information. host: harry, texas, independent line. go ahead. caller: good morning. thank you. i would wondering if you're just could provide us with the number description of the house and senate version of this legislation, so that individuals such as myself can read it and make my own judgment as to how it might impact my personal privacy. then come on the technical side, certified microsoft engineer or i.t. professional, but i often have to use their services in my line of work. what i recommend that everybody listening do, which i am with myy able to do microsoft outlook application that i use for my business, and personal use is to come instead
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of archiving your old e-mails with the internet service provider so it is on their server and therefore accessible to people who can gain access, simply set up the rules to whatever you use for e-mail inbound and outbound to archive and to either file on your personal computer or, even better put them on a cd-rom. that way you do not even have to worry about it. once you set up the rules to only a yell -- allow yourself to have access to a to archive because you put it into a c wrong come up with a safety deposit box -- back. -- box and of problem. guest: that is a good point. certainly people might be exploring those options.
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people are interested in looking at these reform bills and congress, the e-mail privacy act theesolution 699 it -- and senate version is 266. so, if you want, you can learn more about what they will do. host: what are some things we have not yet discussed? guest: like i said, even the department of justice has concerns about these blanket work requirements. they have civil litigators who need a standard like a subpoena. because, from the warrants are not always available. dan from wisconsin. hello. not know if everybody remembers the nsa taken everybody's information. they got that on a warrant. their next move is to pull our rights. most of the rights for guns. be goingple should after terrorists, not the
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american people. i do not think it is right. it is not government control. it is something that i find said today. thank you for your time. host: any response to that you go -- that? hast: certainly, the nsa its own capabilities that will not be touched on by these bills. with over 300 cosponsors to the house bill, there is a lot of agreement that some basic changes need to be made about how we treat e-mail in general. kevin,efore you get to does this electronics committee case and privacy act fit into any larger legislation, or is it just standalone looking specifically at e-mails? the communications act is actually within the electronic communication privacy act. there are a few different layers here that these bills deal with.
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actually, that is one of the things that causes confusion. you know, the courts have interpreted it these old phrases pretty differently. was first with things like data stored remotely, now that everybody is using the clouds to sir e-mail, people want more clarity in the law. host: right now, cloud is not very clear as to where it falls in the legal world. guest: there are many different interpretations and courts run the country about's some of the various phrases. this is causing concern for law enforcement. host: kevin in new jersey, democrat. hello. caller: hello. thank you for talking about this issue. one of the things that is more concerning to me, besides the is theent, the privacy multibillion-dollar industry that private corporations that deal with not only e-mail, but
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the database that has been developed for years, and the information that is being used in identifying specific traits of people and how they are used, and with corporations and private interests. it does not seem like there is much legislation or concern about the issue. withnk that goes along what is being discussed. guest: you bring up an interesting point. there is a lot of data collection on united states people that is not led by the government or law enforcement, companies collect a lot of information when people browse online or even use their cell phone. do not personally know of legislation dealing with that, but i'm sure it is something that people are thinking about. host: judy from hawaii. hello. caller: hello.
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i have a couple of questions. who is putting out -- this is that wassa e-mail law in existence -- this is a new law? what is the purpose of the government wanting to read our e-mails? is it related to the nsa renown e-mails also? host: thank you. let's get an answer from our guest. what has he and is a done in the past? what is the role of edward snowden? guest: the short answer is that no, based on my understanding, the nsa.ot impact
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this deals more with federal agencies and some of the civil agencies and mentioned earlier. the sec the fcc. they be impacted. the nsa has abilities that are governed under different laws. they would not be impacted by the bills were talking about. have this we do revelation from a few years ago increasing people's awareness of the different ways that government can access information. it certainly raised the test companies awareness and ability to talk about it to a level where they have raised a lot of concerns same privacy is a key thing. there supported this bill as well. host: you talk but the fact that over 300 members in the house, what about the senate? there are at: significant number of cosponsors. host: you said the committee chair, republican from virginia has concerns.
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the goals of this legislation is to treat searches in the virtual world and the physical world equally, so it makes sense that the exceptions to the warrant requirement should be harmonized. it is a well-settled law that the government can conduct a search in absence of a warrant, in certain instances, including when they decide there is an emergency for a search where the government obtains the consent of the owner of the information. guest: that is one of the concerns that law enforcement officials have brought up. they said there are clear exceptions for when we would be required to have a warrant, cases of missing or objective children. they are worried that they will have to go through this process, and they could be too late. travis, illinois. go ahead. were talking but e-mail privacy. caller: good morning.
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a caller earlier was talking about given up rights. i've been hearing a lot of people talking about that. it is very alarming. many people in america have been invited to the table to help shape our country with the upper-class. they talk about the rights of given things like that up, it is are frightening. i do not understand how people would come to those kind of conclusions. they actually think he's a real solutions. guest: i think there is a heightened discussion about the balance between people's privacy rights, especially in the constitution in the first amendment. also how we continue to deal with different threats. somethingcertainly that people have been talking about a lot the past two years.
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there are incremental efforts to protect privacy while balancing the information. jean, new york. independent line. go ahead with your question or comment. caller: i am curious, how did we get to the point where we have to spend so much money on the taxpayers to get hillary's e-mails? you want to know about my business, i want to know about her business because she has lied to us. can you help me out with that? host: any comment with that caller? guest: that is not something i covered in depth. i think her servers were different from what was used in this bill. host: electronic indications privacy act. give us the basics. what is being proposed? what is holding it up? that is ahave a law
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most 30 years old at this point in trying to outline when government and law enforcement can access people's e-mails in electronics communications. now, people are saying that is very outdated. olde-mails over 180 days cannot just be open for anybody. so, now, they are a limited in that standard. -- they'reertain saying no matter how will the e-mail is, they need a warrant. there are some other nuances that legislation touches on. host: they are expected to change the 180 day rule. 300 cosponsors in the house. many the senate. it has not moved forward at this because of issues we have discussed. we can still see it move forward. certainly, it is something that will happen in the beginning next year.
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people will protect people's privacy and allow certain exceptions. host: are we including messages at this point? guest: as i said, the stored communication act is something that falls under broader laws. there are a few different types of electronic communications that are dealt with in different ways. there are different levels of details about what you can access. for e-mails, it might beautiful spectrum. others it might just be who sent the message to who and when. host: alicia is with rollcall. we're talking with law enforcement data.
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one more segment coming up, we will be looking at school crime, violence and safety. is coming up, but we mentioned judiciary chair when we talk about e-mail privacy. is here atood latte 6:00 p.m. sunday. this program was taped yesterday. here's a preview of it. he is talking about violence with the potential for repairs like attack in the united states. house has been addressing this since the paris attacks since before that. there are two bills, one that passed a few weeks ago that deals with the possibility of refugees, people using the refugee system to enter the united states. now, our attention has moved on to the visa waiver program. this is an important program
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used by millions of people for doing business, for travel, tourism. 438 countries, mostly western isopean, the problem there that the process by which into the country without a visa, by its very nature constitutes less scrutiny. so, we have a bill that will be on the floor this coming week that will deal with the issue of people who have traveled to iraq , syria, and the sudan. in who have dual citizenship and any of those countries, soap you're both a french and syrian dual citizen, you would not be able to enter the united states under the visa waiver program. you would have to apply for a a closerh gives scrutiny given before you're allowed to enter the united states.
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>> do you imagine the the judiciary committee or congress in the house would be considering legislation in the days and months ahead specifically targeting gun violence? -- >> i think the mental health bill that congressman tim murphy, who is a psychiatrist, has been working on for a long time is gaining increasing respects and increasing momentum. i am a cosponsor that legislation and i hope that we are able to move forward in the energy and commerce subcommittee. i hope that it is taken up in the full committee soon as well. legislationrking on to address workplace violence, where it might be workplace related. it'll make sure that when employers hire somebody, they have the most information possible about whether they have
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had a problem with violence, rage, so on. >> washington journal continues. host: here on the washington journal we do a segment called america by the numbers where which ride to statistically look at certain aspects of american society, today, we're looking at school violence and where it stands today. join us is dr. mauricio. she is with single thread management associates and the former chief research psychologist for the u.s. secret service. also with us is tom snyder. who is with the national center for education statistics. what is that organization? guest: we deal with education at all levels to primary education all the way out. today, we will be dealing with findings on kansas crime and safety. withhe news opens up
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positive things about a decline in school crime. if you have a decline school crimes, this is reported by teens and what we see is that 20 there werein 1992 181 crimes for a thousand students. now it is down to 55. host: how to define a crime or violence? guest: primarily, we're talking about combat data. things being taken of the value of $10 or more. these crimes are reported by the students. there's something we will highlight today is that there is a lot of crime data which is reported by schools and teachers or by students. those can give us a different perspective that can be helpful. not just one statistic is the full answer. we need to look at how all the crimes relate to each other.
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are some trends as reported by the national center for education. teen victimization rate at to 55s declined from 181 or 1000 students. as between 1992 and 2013. fewer students were bullet in 2013. 22% in 2005, 20 8% later. does that mean that 22% of students were bullied? guest: that is right. 22% of teens report being bullied at school. perhaps something that is interesting is that most of those cases have students being reported once or twice. weree other hand, there other students who reported being bullied once a week, some reported everyday. host: almost one quarter of students in american schools are being bullied?
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total crimes reported by colleges decreased from 36-18 per 10,000 students. cases ofreported sexual assault have increased, and reports for liquor law violations are up. arrest for drug law violations were higher. we want to bring you into this conversation doctor. all, what is threat assessment, and what do you do? in my line of fork, i work with colleges and schools and with workplaces and certain high-profile individuals, we look at threatening situations and behavior. if a school gets a threat from a student, from a next resource, we help them figure out is there a real risk? do to reducean we this risk? host: we are talking about some
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of these trends. numbers inse topline high school and college. what do here? guest: i think it is primarily good news coming out of the data. the decline in victimizations rates we're seeing for teens is a significant decline over the past 10-11 years. the decline in bowling is encouraging. it used to be the case that bowling would occur in schools and the mindset used to be almost a matter of that is just kids being kids. especially boys being boys. i think that schools have gotten much more savvy and aware in taking an active role to address and prevent pulling, not all man boys but among girls as well. that has contributed to the decline we are seeing. host: you look at this next chart, it appears to me that
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females are actually bullied more than males. is that correct? guest: that is correct. the types of crimes are seen schools were bores are more likely to be victims, with bowling it is more likely to be female victims than males. some of this is related to cyber bullying, 9% of females report being cyber bullied reported to 5% of males. host: does your organization attribute reasons why there is the drop in some of these figures? guest: we cannot establish cause and effect. we have noticed that the schools have made significant effort to reduce bowling. guest: a half. we have seen it. one thing i have seen my line of work is that a lot of school shootings across america had a bullying undertone. i want to be very clear that not every child who is bullied is at that risk. however, we have seen in a lot
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of high-profile school shootings across america that these were carried out by students who had been bullied for extensive amounts of time. one of the things i think schools have done in the past the5 years is wake up to importance of addressing situations as they start to occur. addressing bowling that is occurring not only physically between students on campus, but also in the cyber domain. we see it especially lung -- among females. this happeningf with the physical form that we think of with kids rolling other kids. it can be social exclusion. it can be sharing what had been private or confidential information, now used as ammunition against someone else for a social exclusion purpose. so, schools are taking a very active role in taking it will
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not happen here. it will not happen between our students and the cyber domain. we have seen schools adopt policies that they just because it does not occur in our walls, does not mean we have authority. it is behavior our students are engaging in, we will take disciplinary measures. host: let's put the numbers on the screen. we want to hear from you. parents and students, here's the number for you to call. , education0 administrators call 202-748-8001 , all others call in at 202-748-8002. tom snyder, to build on what the here is theying, next chart we want to look at from your organization. most public schools have written emergency plans. walk me through this. host: this is looking at the perspective from the school.
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these are the types of plans they typically have in place. what we see here is about nine out of 10 schools have written plans to deal with a variety of emergencies. aree greater numbers actually done to drill the students on the plan. disaster, a national or schools drawing on those plans. something that was frequent such as hostages, 66% of schools have a plan. fewer are drilling on it. host: is violence in schools a new phenomenon? guest: we have measurements back through 1992. we can only comment on that moving forward. i think it would be naive to believe that we do not have violence earlier. data from the beginning of the 19th century.
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like through 1821. host: why did we start doing this report in 1992? it was started by the bureau of justice statistics. we work in partnership with them to develop a survey. there is an understanding that we need more coverings of information. there were already other surveys that gathered information on crime from police agencies. there's also a need to get more information about schools as well. will cover schools, but it was not comprehensive. host: we had an earlier segment this morning about the violence. that 62 people had been killed in schools this year. as that a remarkable figure? is it low? guest: one thing we have seen oft the data is that, first
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all, any homicide or suicide come any violent death in school is a tragedy. no matter what the trends are saying. no matter how prevalent it is. we still see that when it comes to homicides and it comes to serious violence, where students are victimized, students are safer in school than they are out of the school. we see that the victimization rates overall show that kids are at greater risk because of a whole host of things that happen to them, from the minor instance the bowling, to be serious assaults. even homicide. when we're time of the moser is violence that students are victims of, they are at much greater risk outside of school than they are in school. in your current position, what advice would you give to the school? guest: one of the best things they can do is encourage their students to report threats and
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other troubling or disturbing behavior that they become aware of. one of the things that we have seen across america from research on school shootings is that typically, other students know about the violent plans before it is carried out the school. it is the students who are aware of this, they hear about it directly from students planning to violence. a hear about it from friends, they see it on social media. they know come often long before adults know. when schools take steps to actively encourage students to say the best that they are part of school safety. yes, you're here to learn, but you are also a key player in keeping our school safe. you're the first one to know about something troubling, a violent plan, of a friend or fellow student who is feeling desperate and feels like they need to engage in violence. tell us. because we can take
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steps to help them and keep the school safe. host: did you techniques develop after columbine in 1999? yes.: in large part because of the research that was conducted on school shootings. i was fortunate to be part of that selected. it was groundbreaking and remains the largest federal studying of school shootings across the u.s.. there were some surprising findings that help schools do much better jobs -- job at figuring out when the student will engage in violence. because it is not impulsive. the school shootings we have seen in the united states are thought out in advance, which means that we have a chance to stop them. to stop the students who have gotten onto a pathway to violence. are usually there because that personal problems there try to softer other ways.
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they eventually resort to violence or see violence as the only option. when a school can work with law enforcement and mental health professionals, they can help the student figure out nonviolent ways to solve their problems. they get off of the pathway to violence and the staff of it. host: let's take some calls and we will continue to go through some statistics. is in florida. hello. caller: i have one question. then, i will hang up and listen to the answer. confronted with racism on a regular basis in the school or college, whether it is written in the form of a --stika, is that bowling? bullying?
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host: that was such as the incident in missouri, or racial incidents. guest: there is a special category for hate crime. we do not have a slide prepared for that, but colleges are required to report all hate crimes. so, that is something that we carry in our reports. in 2012 there were about 800 hate crimes reported. host: how does that compare to other years? guest: we only have the data for a few years. it is something we're definitely highlighting. you: over the past 10 years reported that public schools have expanded their security practices. the first one up there is student uniforms. why is that a security practice? it prevents students from
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wearing things that other students will want to take. if everybody wears the same thing it will prevent animosity. it'll reduce victimization across a couple of fronts. it evens the playing field. on closing orin garments that would be subpar or the basis for bowling. it puts them all on an even footing. host: that goes with the address code as well, and schools have require faculty badges. is that correct? guest: that is correct. it is relatively new. guest: let me highlight that. it underscores something people often overlook. that is that of adults in a
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school, working at a school, having an affiliation with the school could also post some risk for harm within the school. when we talk about school safety, we default thinking about harmful students, dangerous students. that is not the case. schools are workplaces as much as educational institutions. where often work on cases you have a staff member that is engaging in troubling or threatening behavior. we have the disgruntled former employee. you can even have domestic violence situations or somebody who may have been victimized in a domestic situation is employed at your school. spouse mayranged know that they can only find the person at the school. safety forty has everybody. they increase the security practice with security cameras.
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of public schools moved to 75%. guest: that is an advance in technology. there is a lot of security possibility. this is a big improvement. guest: i think it may also be in bowling decrease victimization, because you are able to have eyes on places in schools where they had not been previously. oftentimes, we see bullying occur in places where the adults are less likely to be. out on the playground, in the hallways, with security cameras you have additional eyes. on to what we were talking about with security practices, 43% of public schools have security personnel on site. is this a big increase? it is just pretty steady.
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if you look at the graphic we see the total has not changed over time. we also have a slight decrease with part-time staff. i should emphasize that the percentage is higher for a large high school. if you go to a large high school, the chances are that you will have the security personnel. 90% of them will have a security personnel. host: when the top three things he would tell a high school principal it comes to safety? guest: number one, have open communication with your students. make sure every student feels like they are someone at your school. there is an adult that they can turn to or confide in. number two, developed a threat assessment process. this has been identified as the
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best practice for preventing violence. it got a lot of attention after columbine. places like the come wealth of virginia recently passed legislation requiring all their schools to have threat assessment capacity. it is a great tool for schools to be able to prevent not only serious violence, but to identify problems as they emerge and develop like bowling, harassment, like hate crimes. to make sure that there is a climate that feels safe for students and for employees, for faculty and staff. when people feel like , likeation is true fairly their somebody they can go to, that things will not be blown out of proportion or handled in a way that is insufficient, that people feel comfortable and safe drinking concerns forward knowing they will be addressed. what about x-ray detectors, locked doors, security personnel, what about armed guards?
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the school,ding on that might be appropriate. out of all of those, i would might -- i might want armed guards. they need a school resource officer as opposed to just a security guard. i think the reason school resource officers are so critical is because they are sworn in law enforcement personnel. they come from the local police department. they have gone through law enforcement training. they know the law. they know how to use weapons appropriately. skills andhe correct tools that a private security guard might not have experience with. the correctaving school resource officer to enhance safety is looking for people who have the right personality match. the correct disposition to work with kids. we have seen a real improvement with schools and local law enforcement working together to get the right officers in those positions.
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it was almost a position that officers would take as their last place before retirement. now, law enforcement and schools figure out whoo wants to do this, and be the best suited. when you have that correct person, oftentimes it is young officers with their own kids. they get in and work with the school. it becomes a place where students feel very comfortable bringing concerns and tone them about problems that are happening in schools are that friends might be facing outside of school. they become an emblem for school safety. host: sonja, washington. please go ahead with their comment. hower: i was wondering young it would start. my granddaughter is in fifth grade in washington. she got a note from somebody on the bus saying that they were going to kill her and other people. she took the note to the school counselor, the counselor said it
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is a pass, forget about it. leave it alone. to me, that is serious. even though his fifth grade, how young do they have to be to take these things seriously? she has experienced bowling before. when the counselor says to leave it alone, she is threatening to kill other people. host: how old is your granddaughter? caller: she is 11. host: thank you. what is your response to what she had to say? guest: first of all, i think her granddaughter did the absolute right thing. if that is the response she is getting, i would encourage her to tell other people. i would encourage her to talk to the school principal. also to call local law enforcement. you can make an independent call through the school. you can let them know. here's why, local law enforcement should be aware of situations involving a particular student or have other
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information, and this would be an important piece of the puzzle. , often shecounselor is bound by covenant shall it. maybe they have enough of a critical mass of information to do something. of all, she did the correct thing by bringing this information forward. i think the response is, given the severity of what we are hearing, i want to go until additional people. host: she said her granddaughter was 11. according to the national center for education on statistics, the schools were more likely to report to violent crimes in 20132014. does that mean that in middle school there is more crime or bowling or etc. in middle school than there are in other places? guest: middle schools are more
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likely to report this type of behavior. are a lot of crimes we are seeing there. fights with students been attacked by other students. those are serious crimes that you see reported here, primarily. host: one of the examples that boy whois the little bit to his pop tart into the shape of a gun, or kids just playing violent games. they have to be reported. is that overreach? to report those types of incidents as crimes and violence? guest: let me back up. i do not think it is overreach for somebody who sees that, or hears about it to reported to a teacher, or principal or school resource officer. they can look into it and see if it is serious or not. oftentimes we do not see the entire situation. we see or hear about things and pass it along.
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they overreach part comes in where there is automatic expansion or expulsion. that is something we saw previously where we saw schools moving away from. that is zero-tolerance policy, where if someone says something, regardless of the context, as you're talking with the pop tart, they chewed in the shape of a gun, i thought of the state of idaho. when we look at what is being done, what is the student perspective on what is being done? let's do this reasonably and objectively. are there other students who are worrd about what they saw? are the teachers were developed the student is doing? maybe there is stuff going on for the student. without the context, we do not
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know. to have a policy where schools have to take severe disciplinary measures in response to these things, that is where it can feel like overreach. that can result in a climate that feels to students and employees that it is not safe to bring things forward. janet is coming in from boston. hello. caller: hello. host: go ahead. caller: my question is that my daughter was bullied, and i did bring it before the principal, and the teacher. you have three responses. tell the students, tell the teacher, tell me. then i took it to the principal child hadool, and the
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actually physically touched my child. when i told the principle that i the principal, said your daughter got in some good licks. my daughter does not want to fight. she wants and education. i said she should not be made to feel like she has to go into school and fight. upset and iry pulled her out of the program. administratorsve that are out of tune to what is going on. or they do not want to react. bowling,saying this this child had something each year coming up. then, the child has a problem. then it becomes your child's problem. thendo not want to react, the collective group in the
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classroom cannot go on because it is a behavior issue. host: did your daughter immediately tell you when she was bullied, or did it come out inadvertently? caller: every day, as a parent, i will pick her up and asked her how her day was. day was she will say my this send that. this happened that happened. it was a mantra. i could hear from her on a daily basis as to what was going on and things i learned to adjust, react to, let go on, see what is happening. i would say do you think you can handle this? she would say i think i need some help with this. or i think i will be ok. issue,this child has an and now does my child's issue -- host: how old is your child?
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caller: my child is 13. when it was going on was between 11, 12, 13. host: thank you. back in the middle school range. before we get an analysis, i want to look at this chart. one half of frequently bullied students never told an adult. host: that is our greatest concern about this units being bullied. guest: some of them get bullied everyday or once a week and they have not told an adult. that is what we are beginning to hear, perhaps more than one person. there is school personnel as well as parents. time that is the second that a parent of a female middle school student has called in. caller: i think that could also be part of it. as many advances as we have seen schools make across the country
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in taking a better stance against bowling, we still have individual administrators here and there who not see it the same way. tohink they often default its being two girls. it can be very bad. especially to the girl who is feeling victimized. , iant to say that the caller think her daughter has a wonderful advocate and her. i think the quality of her relationship will help her deal with issues and challenges across her lifetime. i'm sorry for the response that they felt they got was dismissive. again, i would encourage her to report to other people if she's not getting a satisfied response. sometimes, as parents we have to be a thorn in the side of the administrator or school i do not in saying think you understand, this is serious. dismissing this is inapprriate.
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one thing that school personnel often not realize is that students who are the bullies in schools, the frequent bowlers, the people who engage in chronic bowling who are often identified as the source of the problem, when we actually look at them statistically, they are often students who are clinically qualifyd, or who would for diagnoses with health along the mental health spectrum dealing with depression. not awhat we see is symptom, with the right of evaluating mental health care it to be addressed well. they can provide wonderful relief for people in the bully behavior. so, will we see a student he's bowling, etc. saying well, they said your child was the problem are this person said the other should it was the problem. let's look at what is driving
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the behavior, especially when we hear multiple reports. let's look at how we can help the student beyond discipline. it might mean they meet more care. are: all the information we looking at, is it available to the public yet to -- public? host: yes. guest: it is at the bottom of the slides. roy in massachusetts. you are on washington journal. we are talking about statistics around school violence. caller: i have two comments and one question. is about the emphasis on school resource officers. there was a recent incident in ohio for a judgment was fired because he was allegedly to violent with the student who is actually confrontational with him. he was trained in the area and still we had a problem. on the other hand, in general, bowling is a huge problem.
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it is being emphasized too much in public school and we are forgetting that the primary mission is educating students. withestion has to do resolving these problems with students that deal with school violence. study onnator did a families and he found that families that do not have a father, the young men grow up and have a much higher likelihood of being violent. experts in the area say the same thing. so, do you ever consider that fact in the findings in the report in trying to resolve these problems? one thing i want to point out and i appreciate the caller's perspective, one thing i want to point out is that when we talk about school violence, it is not all just in the domain of boys. we see girls increasingly engaging in violent behavior.
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all types of violent behavior. when we look at a particular case of a student here is threatening or engaging in violence, we look at every aspect. as the caller was suggesting, family dynamics. we look at sources of support or lack thereof, or look at how the student is doing in school. really in terms of social adjustment and development. where there are unmet needs and where we can address the problem. what we see at the root of most violence is personal issue and problems of students facing that they are choosing to handle through violent means, or do not see another option. so, the when you can work with the student, and connect them to better resource and more support , whether it is a one parent family, two parent family, a blended family, stepparent,
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whatever that may be, you can help to bolster the support with additional support from a coach, church, mosque or synagogue. from something that the student feels an in. we need to help them get involved and increase that support. , it can fillgaps in those pieces through other means. host: when he's on the video of the policeman taking the african-american girl out of a desk, what were your thoughts? guest: my first thought was that we cannot see the whole context. it is hard to does a situation we only see a small piece of, when situations get to that point of violence, nobody winds. even if what the often did was successful, or not, it created such a disruptive and scary feeling. my comments about school resource officers, taking them out of the equation, generally
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they are a very beneficial asset to schools. it does matter who is in the position. like any employee in any position. we see that the vast majority of employees function well, but every so often we have people who do things that are inappropriate, counter to policy. break loss, and with to discipline them. i feel badly that the school had that experience and that things get to that level. that has a ripple effect on the entire system. thomas from the end ces reporting, this is one of your more dramatic charts. what are we seeing? guest: we are seeing an overall decline in school crime. this is part of a historical pattern. certainly, if we look at it through time, we can see that school crime has decreased.
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host: what do you attribute to that? guest: it is difficult to establish any cause and effect relationship. host: do you have anything you'd like to share? guest: i have some speculation. i appreciate tom's perspective. when we look at data it would do not ever know exactly what the cause and effect is. i think what we have seen over the past decade is a much greater awareness and attention to the issues of what is going on in our schools beyond the educational mission. debates a lot of policy around educational mission and how with the fill that. we need to recognize that schools are small communities that impact the quality of life for students and employees. i think that unfortunately is taken these mass tragedies of school shootings to raise the
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awareness to a national level. schoolswe're there now, are generally taking a much more active and proactive approach to looking at their climate, security procedures, how then direct the students and how they treat their employees. i believe that it is because of those collective efforts that we are seeing the decline. host: walter calling in from new orleans. please go ahead with your question or comment. caller: thank you for setting my call this morning. that i would like to i know people in the teaching profession, i think the climate in the classroom really dictates as to what they can do. have, it seems like they gone to a certain degree. there are certain areas where they will not go in or challenge if it is not severe.
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because they are intimidated by other people. host: you are saying that teachers are intimidated and bullied? caller: yes. know a couple of teachers who felt that certain steps in the class, or somebody is disrupting the class, but they're not with the class, they will not challenge them because they feel bullied. tom, do you include those statistics in your reports? guest: we do get some reports that onehers saying out of 10 teachers report being threatened. it is a very real problem. host: this is what we will be reviewing today? guest: yes. host: one thing we have not addressed is the college campus issue.
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guest: that is right. there was an overall decline, especially after 2005 or 2006. the number is that 10,000 students, one way we report campus crimes. time anddecreased over a lot is due to the drop at institutions, so this is one of the most commonly reported crimes. it does not involve physical confrontations. however, we have seen an increase in reported sex offenses and you see that on the bottom line that has increased over time. it is difficult for us to tell to what extent if this is in an increase in incidence or more people coming forward and reporting the incidents have occurred. there

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