tv U.S. House of Representatives Legislative Business CSPAN March 22, 2016 6:00pm-7:01pm EDT
[speaking spanish] in his most famous poem, jose marte made this offering of friendship and peace to both is friend and his enemy. today, as the president of the united states of america, i -- r the cuban people peaking foreign language] havana is only 90 miles from florida. but to get here we had to travel a great distance. over barriers of history and
ideology, barriers of pain and separation, the blue waters beneath air force one once carried american battleships to this island. to liberate but also to exert control over cuba. at short distance has been crossed by hundreds of thousands of cuban compiles. on planes and makeshift rafts. who came to america in pursuit of freedom and opportunity, sometimes bind everything they owned and every erson thath loved. like so many people in both of our countries, my lifetime has spanned a time of isolation beus. the cuban revolution took place the same year that my father
came to the united states from kenya. the bay of pigs took place the year that i was born. the next year the entire world held its breath watching our two countries as humanity came as close as we ever have to the horror of nuclear war. as the decades rolled by, our government settled into a seemingly endless confrontation. fighting battles through proxies. in a world that remade itself time and again, one constant was the conflict between the united states and cuba. i have come here to bury the last remnant of the cold war in theri [applause]i ha come here to ext
hand of friendship to the cuban people. [applause] i want to be clear, the differences between our governments over these many years are real and they are important. i'm sure president castro would say the same thing. i know because i've heard him address those differences at length. but before i discuss those issues, we also need to recognize how much we share. because in many ways the united states and cuba are like two brothers who have been astrange -- estranged for many years. even as we share the same blood. we both live in a new world, colonized by combrurens. -- europeans. cuba, like the united states, was built in part by slaves brought here from africa.
like the united states, the cuban people can trace their heritage to both slaves and slave owners. 've welcomed both immigrants who came a great distance to start new lives in the americas. over the years, our cultures have blended together. a doctor's work paved the way for generations of doctorses, including walter reed, who drew on the doctor's help to help combat yellow fever. justice wrote some of his most famous words in new york. hemingway made a home in cuba andound inspiration in the wate of these shores. we s and later ourlayers ll compete on the same havana fiel that jackie robinson
played on before he made his ajor league debut. [applause] and it's said that our greatest boxer, muhammad ali, once paid tribute to a cuban that he could never fight, saying that he would only be able to reach draw with the great cuban, stevenson. [applause] so even as our governments became adversaries, our people continued to share these common passions. particularly as so many cubans came to america. in miami or havana, you can find plas to dance the kha-cha-cha or the salsa. in both of our countries ave sung along with gloria estefan, and now listen to
pitbull. millions of our people share a common religion. a faith that i paid tribute to at the shrine of our lady of charity in miami. la ce that cubans find in cachita. for all of our differences, the cuban and american people share common values in their own lives. a sense of patriotism. and a sense of pride. a lot of pride. a profound love of family. a passion for our children. a commitment to their education. that's why i believe our grandchildren will look back on this period of isolation as an aberration, just one chapter in a longer story of family and of friendship. but we cannot and should not ignore the very real differences that we have.
about how we organize our governments, our economies and our societies. cuba has a one-party system. the united states is a multi-party democracy. cuba has a socialist economic model. the united states is an open market. cuba has emphasized the role and rights of the state, the united states is founded upon he rights of the individual. despite these differences, on december 17, 2014, president castro and i announced that the united states and cuba would begin a process to normalize relations between our countries. [applause] since then, we've established diplomatic relations and opened embassies. we've begun initiatives to cooperate on health and
agriculture. education and law enforcement. we've reached agreements to restore direct flights and mail service. we've expanded commercial ties and increased the capacity of americans to travel and do business in cuba. and these changes have been welcomed. even though there are still opponents to these policies. still, many people on both sides of this debate have asked, why now? why now? there is one simple answer. what the united states was doing was not working. we have to have the courage to acknowledge that truth. a policy of isolation designed for the cold war made little sense in the 21st century. the embargo was only hurting the cuban people instead of helping them. and i've always wleesked in what martin luther king jr. called the fierce urgency of
now. we should not fear change. we should embrace it. [applause] that leaves me to a bigger and more -- leads me to a bigger and more important reason for these changes. [speaking foreign language] i believe in the cuban people. [applause] this is not just a policy of normalizing relations with the cuban government. the united states of america's normalizing relations with the cuban people. [applause] and today i want to share with you my vision of what our future can be. i want the cuban people, especially the young people, to understand why i believe that you should look to the future with hope, not the false promise which insists that
things are better than they really are, or the blind optimism that says all your problems can go away tomorrow. hope that is rooted in the future that you can choose and that you can shape and that you can build for your country. i'm hopeful because i believe that the cuban people are as innovative as any people in the world. in a global economy, powered by ideas and information, a country's greatest asset is its people. in the united states, we have a clear monument to what the cuban people can build. it's called miami. here in havana, we see that same talent, in cooperatives and old cars that still run. [speaking foreign language] [applause]
cuba has an extraordinary resource, a system of education, which values every oy and every girl. indiana recent years the cuban government has begun to open up to the world. and to open up more space for that talent to thrive. in just w years we've seen how they can succeed while keeping the cuban spirit. being self-employed is about being yourself. look at sandra, who chose to start a small business. cubans, she said, can innovate and adapt without losing our identity. our secret is not in copying or
imitating, but simply being ourselves. whose papito, a barber, success has allowed him to improve conditions in his neighborhood. i realize i'm not going to solve all the worlds problems, he said, but if i can solve problems in the little piece of world where i live, it can ripple across havana. that's where hope begins. with the ability to earn your own living and to build something you can be proud of. that's why our policies focus on supporting cubans instead of hurting them. that's why we got rid of limits on remittances, so ordinary cubans have more resources. that's why we're encouraging travel which will build bridges between our people. and bring more revenue to those cuban small businesses. that's why we've opened up space for commerce and exchanges, so that americans and cubans can work together to
find cures for diseases and create jobs and open the door to more opportunity for the cuban people. as president of the united states, i've called on our congress to lift the embargo. [applause] it is an outdated burden on the cuban people. it's a burden on the americans who want to work and do business or invest here in cuba. [applause] it's time to lift the embargo. but, even if we lifted the embargo tomorrow, cubans would not realize their potential without continued change here in cuba. [applause]
it should be easier to open a business here in cuba. a worker should be able to get a job directly with companies who invest here in cuba. two currencies shouldn't separate the type of salaries that cubans can earn. the internet should be available across the island so that cubans can connect to the wider world. and to one of the greatest engines of growth in human history. [applause] there's no limitation from the united states on the ability of cuba to take these steps. it's up to you. i can tell you as a friend that sustainable prosperity in the 21st century depends on education, health care and environmental protection. but it also depends on the free and open exchange of ideas. if you can't access information online, if you cannot be exposed to different points of view, you will not reach your
full potential. and over time the youth will lose hope. i know these issues are sensitive. especially coming from an american president. before 1959, some americans saw cuba as something to exploit, ignored poverty, enabled corruption. and since 1959, we've been shadow boxers in this battle of geopolitics and personalities. i know the history. but i refuse to be trammed by it. -- trapped by it. [applause] i've made it clear that the united states has neither the capacity nor the intention to impose change on cuba. what changes come will depend upon the cuban people. we will not impose our political or economic system on
you. we recognize that every country , every people, must chart its own course and shape its own model. but having removed the shadow of history from our relationship, i must speak honestly about the things that i believe. the things that we as americans believe. as was said, liberty is the right of every man to be honest. to think and to speak without hypocrisy. so let me tell you what i believe. i can't force you to agree. but you should know what i think. i believe that every person should be equal under the law. every child deserves the dignity that comes with education and health care and food on the table and a roof over their heads. [applause] i believe citizens should be free to speak their mind
without fear. [applause] to organize and to criticize their government and to protest peacefully. and that the rule of law should not include arbitrary detentions of people who exercise those rights. [applause] i believe that every person should have the freedom to practice their faith peacefully and publicly. [applause] and, yes, i believe voters should be able to choose their governments in free and democratic elections. [applause] not everybody agrees with me on this. not everybody agrees with the american people on this. but i believe those human rights are universal. [applause] i believe they are the rights of the american people, the cuban people and people around the world. there's no secret that our governments disagree on many of these issues.
i've had frank conversations with president castro. for many years, he has pointed out the flaws in the american system. the economic inequality, the death penalty, racial discrimination, wars abroad. that's just a sample. he has a much longer list. [laughter] but here's what the cuban people need to understand. i welcome this open debate and dialogue. it's good. it's healthy. i'm not afraid of it. we do have too much money in american politics. but in america, it's still possible for somebody like me, a child who was raised by a single mom, a child of mixed race, who did not have a lot of money, to pursue and achieve the highest office in the land. that's what's possible in america. [applause]
we do have challenges with racial bias in our communities, in our criminal justice system and our society. the legacy of slavery and segregation. but the fact that we have open debates within america's own democracy is what allows us to get better. in 1959, the year that my father moved to america, it was illegal for him to marry my mother, who was white, in many american states. when i first started school, we were still struggling to desegregate schools across the american south. but people organized. they protested. they debated these issues. they challenged government officials. and because of those protests and because of those debates and because of popular mobilization, i'm able to stand here today as an african-american and as president of the united states. that was because of the freedoms that were afforded in the united states.
that we were able to bring about change. i'm not saying this is easy. there's still enormous problems in our society. but democracy is the way that we solve them. that's how we got health care for more of our people. that's how we made enormous gains in women's rights and gay rights. it's how we addressed the inequality that concentrates so much wealth at the top of our society. because workers can organize. and ordinary people have a voice. american democracy is giving our people the opportunity to pursue their dreams and enjoy a high standard of living. [applause] there's still some tough fights . it isn't always pretty. the process of democracy. it's often frustrating. you can see that in the election going on back home.
but just stop and consider this fact about the american campaign. that's taking place right now. you had two cuban americans in the republican party running against the legacy of a black man who was president, while arguing that they're the best person to beat the democratic nominee who will either be a woman or a democratic socialist. [laughter] who would have believed that back in 1959? that's a measure of our progress as a democracy. [applause] so, here's my message to the cuban government and the cuban people. the ideals that are the starting point for every revolution, america's revolution, cuba's revolution, the liberation movements around the world, those ideals find their truest expression, i believe, in democracy. not because american
democracy's perfect, but precisely because we're not. and we, like every country, need the space that democracy ives us to change. it gives individuals the capacity to be catalysts, to think in new ways. and to reimagine how our societies should be. and to make them better. there's already an evolution taking place inside of cuba. a generational change. many suggested that i come here and ask the people of cuba to tear something down. but i'm appealing to the young people of cuba who will lift something up, build something new. [speaking foreign language] [applause]
and to president castro, who i appreciate being here today, i want you to know, i believe my visit here demonstrates you do not need to fear a threat from the united states. and given your commitment to cuba's sovereignty and self-determination, i am also confident that you need not fear the different voices of the cuban people. and their capacity to speak and assemble and vote for their leaders. in fact, i am hopeful for the future because i trust the cuban people will make the right decisions. and as you do, i'm also confident that cuba can continue to play an important role in the hemisphere and around the globe. and my hope is that you can do so as a partner with the united states. we've played very different roles in the world. but no one should deny the service the thousands of cuban doctors have delivered for the poor and suffering.
[applause] last year american health care workers and the u.s. military worked side by side with cubans to save lives and stamp out ebola in west africa. i believe we should continue that kind of cooperation in other countries. we've been on the different side of so many conflicts in the americas, but today americans and cubans are sitting together at the negotiating table and we are helping the colombian people resolve the civil war that's dragged on for decades. [applause] that kind of cooperation is good for everybody. it gives everyone in this hemisphere hope. we took different journeys to our support for the people of
south africa in ending apartheid. but president castro and i could both be there in johannesburg to pay tribute to the legacy of the great nelson mandela. [applause] and in examining his life and his words, i'm sure we both realized we have more work to do to promote equality in our own countries. to reduce discrimination based on race in our own countries. and in cuba, we want our engagement to help lift up the cubans who are african descent, who have proven that there's nothing they cannot achieve when given the chance. [applause] we've been a part of different blocks of nations in the hemisphere. and we will continue to have profound differences about how to promote peace, security, opportunity and human rights.
but as we normalize our relations, i believe it can help foster a greater sense of unity in the americas. [speaking foreign language] [applause] from the beginning of my time in office, i have urged the people of the americas to leave behind the ideological battles of the past. we are in a new era. i know that many of the issues that i've talked about lack the drama of the past. and i know that part of cuba's identity is its pride in being a small island nation that could stand up for its rights and shake the world. but i also know that cuba will always stand out because of the talent, hard work and pride of the cuban people. that's your strength. [applause] cuba doesn't have to be defined
by being against the united states any more than the united states should be defined by being against cuba. and i'm hopeful for the future because of the reconciliation that's taking place among the uban people. i know that for some cubans on the island, there may be a sense that those who left somehow supported the old order in cuba. i'm sure there's a narrative that lingers here which suggests that cuban compiles ignored the problems of pre-revolutionary cuba and rejected the struggle to build a new future. but i can tell you today that so many cuban compiles carry a memory of painful and sometimes violent separation. they love cuba. a part of them still consirs
this their true home. that's why their passion is so strong. that's why their heartache is so great. and for the cuban american community that i've come to know and respect, this is not just about politics. this is about family. the memory of a home that was lost, the desire to rebuild a broken bond, the hope for a better future, the hope for a return and reconciliation. for all of the politics, people are people and cubans are cubans. and i've come here, i've traveled this distance, on a bridge that was built by cubans on both sides of the florida straits. i first got to know the talent and passion of the cuban people in america. i know how they have suffered
more than the pain of compile, they -- exile, they also know what it's like to be an outsider and to struggle and work harder to make sure their children can reach higher in america. so the reconciliation of the cuban people, the children and grandchildren of revolution and the children and grandchildren of exile, that is fundamental to cuba's future. [applause] you see it in gloria gonzalez, who traveled here in 2013 for the first time after 61 years of separation. and was met by her sister. you recognize me, but i didn't recognize you, gloria said after she embraced her sibling. imagine that, after 61 years.
you see it in melinda lopez, who came to her family's old home. as she was walking the streets, an elderly woman recognized her as her mother's daughter. and began to cry. she took her into her home and showed her a pile of photos that included melinda's baby picture, which her mother had sent 50 years ago. melinda later said, so many of us are now getting so much back. you see it in christian miguel soler, a young man who became the first of his family to travel here after 50 years. and meeting relatives for the first time, he said, i realized the family is family, no matter the distance between us. sometimes the most important changes start in small places. the tides of history can leave
people in conflict and exile and poverty, it takes time for those circumstances to change, but the recognition of a common humanity, the reconciliation of people bound by blood and a belief in one another, that's where progress begins. understanding and listening and forgiveness. and if the cuban people face the future together, it will be more likely that the young people of today will be able to live with dignity and achieve their dreams right here in uba. the history of the united states and chew qubbah encompass revolution -- cuba encompass revolution and conflict, struggle and sacrifice, retribution and now reconciliation. it is time now for us to leave the past behind. it is time for us to look forward to the future together. [speaking foreign language]
and it won't be easy and there will be setbacks. it will take time. but my time here in cuba renews my hope and my confidence in what the cuban people will do. we can make this journey as friends and as neighbors and as family, together. [speaking foreign language] [applause] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016]
>> if you missed any of president obama's speech in havana, we'll have it again tonight at 8:00 eastern here on c-span. >> american history tv on c-span3. this weekend -- >> adams famously said, my gift of john marshall to the people of the united states was the proudest act of my life. and marshall has been widely praised for transforming supreme court into what his
biogreafer calls a dominant force in american life. >> and at 10:00 on real -- ica, >> it will put the shuttle on its precise heading toward an imaginary target in space. >> a remarkable flying machine on the two-day maiden voyage of the space shuttle columbia. sunday morning at 10:00 eastern on road to the white house rewind. the 1968 campaign film for republican presidential candidate richard nixon. >> i have decided that i will test my ability to win and my ability to cope with the issues in the fires of the primary. and not just in the smoke-filled room of miami. >> and at 1:00, a panel of authors on their recent books chronicling mexican american civil rights from the 1930's to the 1970's.
>> this coalition of labor unions, mexican american civil rights leaders, and religious authorities came together to protest the exploitation of the program and in fact accelerated congress' decision to terminate it the next year in 1964. and i think this was a moment of blossoming for the movement. >> for the complete american history tv weekend schedule, go to c-span.org. >> i am a history buff. i do enjoy seeing the fabric of our country and how things -- just how they work and how they're made. >> i love american history tv. the presidency. american artifacts. they're fantastic shows. >> i had no idea they did history. that's probably is something i'd really enjoy. >> with american history tv, it gives you that perspective. >> i'm a c-span fan.
>> voters are casting ballots for presidential candidates in arizona, idaho, utah and american samoa today. road to the white house coverage continues tonight with primary and caucus results and some candidate speeches live starting at around 11:00 p.m. eastern. ahead of our coverage tonight, and amid talk of a contested republican convention, former republican national committee general council ben ginsburg joined us to explain what a contested convention is and to discuss republican convention rules. >> former general council to the republican national committee. with party chair now looking at the very real possibility of an open or contested convention, explain what this all means. first, what is a contested convention? >> it's when none of the candidates arrive at the start of the convention with a majority of delegates.
by definition they have to contest to reach a majority. >> if there is a can dade with the majority of delegates but not a majority overall, what does that mean? number.'s a magic so you have to get more than that number of delegates. you only have a plurality, the way the rules are currently written, is there will be balloting when the delegates get there and to see if in that -- a candidate can win over enough of the unbound delegates to get over a majority. >> a lot of attention on the republican national committee rules committee, so here's the question. what is the committee and how much authority does it have over the convention structure in 2016? >> there will be two rules committees in fact. one is the republican national committee rules committee, which will meet in the week before the convention. come up with what amounts to a
working draft, that draft will then be approved by the full republican national committee, historically on the wednesday before the convention starts. that document will then go to what is called a temporary convention rules committee, which is made up of delegates as opposed to the republican national committee members. and those delegates will then work through that draft. and can really do whatever they choose in their authority and discretion to make the rules for the convention. so that draft rules will then be sent to the full convention on monday, on the first day of the convention, plus there's a hurricane -- unless there's a hurricane. then that committee will then meet again as the permanent committee, approve the rules, and then it goes to the full convention for passage. so the answer to your question is, the republican national committee rules committee is essentially doing a working
draft for what the convention will consider. host: we keep hearing about rule 40 that was put in place in 2012. many called that the ron paul ule. mr. ginsburg: they're rules that must be passed by each convention for itself. in the two previous conventions, in 2008 and 2004, the number had been five states majority had to approve a nominee. ron paul claimed that they had five states. that would have caused a lot of messing with the schedule in 2012. and so the rules committee at
the suggestion of the romney campaign increased the number of states to eight that would put a name in nomination. but that rule is not in effect for 2016. there is no rule on the number of states for 2016. until the convention rules committee and then ultimately the full convention vote on the rules for its own session. host: but there is a rule requiring delegates to vote on the first ballot, so what are the r.n.c. rules going into 2016? and how obligated are those delegates to the candidate that they supported in the primaries? mr. ginsberg: that's rule 16, which is part of the permanent rules and not subject to amendment for this convention. that rule requires that the delegates vote according to any state-wide vote in their state. that was put into effect because in 2012 there were a number of instances where the
candidates who came away with the most convention delegates had not actually won the state. so, the rule was put in place to be certain that the votes of the primary voters who participated in republican primaries and conventions, around the country, actually had their votes reflected in what the convention did. host: is it safe to say that the last time that this was really an issue was 1976? mr. ginsberg: yes. i think that is fair to say. host: we're going to go back in a moment and see both ronald reagan and president ford, one of those moments, but before we do so, what happened that year? mr. ginsberg: basically gerald ford did not have a majority of delegates. ronald reagan was a most credible challenger to him. after the last of the primaries, both campaigns weed -- wooeed the delegates as best
they could. president ford i think fairly and legally using the prerogatives of power that the white house brings managed to convince enough unbound delegates to vote with him so that he had a majority of delegates on the first ballot. host: just as a side note, in this film you'll see senator swiker who rage-selected as a runningmate, before he got the nomination, which was something unprecedented. mr. ginsberg: unprecedented. maybe capable of repetition this year. we'll have to see. host: let's go back to kansas city in 1976. we'll begin with president gerald ford as he called then former governor ronald ragen to come to the podium. -- reagan to come to the odium. >> appears to be asking ronald reagan to come down and join them. gesturing to him. waving to him. >> reagan's still signing ool autographs. he may not even be able to see
the president. >> he's shouting into the microphone. would you come down and bring nancy, he said, said the president. come on down. they just delivered the alabama standard to reagan. and the arizona standard to she week earth. -- schweikert. >> everybody in this great auditorium tonight, we're all tremendously pleased and honored to have ron reagan and nancy reagan come down -- cheers and applause] we are all a part of this great republican family that will give the leadership to the american people to win on
november 2. i would like -- i would be honored on your behalf to ask my good friend, governor reagan, to say a few words at this time. cheers and applause] host: as you look at ronald reagan, what turned the tide for president ford and are there lessons from 1976? mr. ginsberg: there certainly are lessons from 1976. there will be fewer unbound delegates in 2016 than there were in 1976. because of that rule we just alked about.
host: how does that play into the delegate totals per candidate and those that may not be obblegailted to vote a certain way? mr. ginsberg: interestingly enough, on june , the day after the last of the primaries, when california and nming and three other states are done voting, you'll know to a highly accurate degree what each candidate's totals are. that's six weeks until the convention begins on july 18 in cleveland, and you'll also know who the unbound delegates are. they will become very popular people. host: let's go back to these delegates. can you determine in advance how delegates will vote after they're unbound?
if nobody gets the nomination on the first ballot, then what happens? mr. ginsberg: it's sort of the frontrunner's dilemma. because of the rule. while well over 90% of the delegates are bound on the first ballot, by the time it gets to the second ballot, if there is no winner on the first, then state rules take over. and under the state rules, roughly 3/4 of the delegates would be unbound for a second ballot. now, is there a way to tell how they'll vote? well, interestingly, i think the campaigns will have to invent terrific new databases to be able to track, contact, know who the delegates can most be persuaded by. it will be a new and different phenomenon and a whip operation like we've never seen before on the floor of the convention. host: are the republican candidates right now, governor kasich, senator cruz, donald trump are they preparing for this? do they have people that will
guide them through this process? mr. ginsberg: i believe they do. each campaign has named a squad of people who will pay attention to the state conventions and the state caucuses and the state executive committees who will choose the actual delegates. and each knows the importance of that, i believe. and are working towards picking delegates and then keeping track of the delegates to be able to have them responsive on the floor in cleveland. host: let's go back even further. 1948. the last time a republican convention there have been multiple ballots. thomas dewey, ultimately getting the nomination in 1948. robert taft of ohio was very much the so-called republican establishment. mr. conservative. lessons from that year? mr. ginsberg: i think the lessons from that year are that you need to keep track of your delegates, and sometimes the candidate who is in second
place can end up in first place f it goes to multiple ballots. host: let's talk about the states. if there is a contested convention, which states are you keeping an eye on, which ones would have the most power over their delegates? and delegations? mr. ginsberg: interestingly enough, one of the great differences from both 1948 and 1976 is the way the party structure has evolved. and the party structures in the individual states will not have nearly the sway over their delegates that they did before. in effect, there are no brokers left in the republican party for a whole variety of reasons having to do with just society as a whole, also campaign finance laws, but there are a few states where individual political figures will still have control ove their delegates. john kasich in ohio, for example, will have control over ohio's 66 delegates in the
sense that they were a slate who he was able to name. in california, one of the few states, and new hampshire is one of the few states where the candidates themselves can pick their delegates. and in those states, whoever wins them, whoever wins those delegates, will, i think, have a lot of sway. in new york state, it's a slate that's chosen entirely by the state central committee, and so it is not exactly clear who those delegates will be primarily loyal to. and in texas, which is another big state, the delegates are actually chosen at the state convention, either in congressional district caucuses or the state-wide delegates by the convention as a whole, those will probably be fairly free spirits, but of course it's ted cruz's home state, so you would give him am some sway with them. host: two follow-ups.
first of all, what is the republican establishment? when you hear that, who or what is it? mr. ginsberg: i think that's tough to say in a presidential context these days. certainly it's the fundraisers. but the fundraisers have not had a terribly successful cycle. superpacs have not had the power that they have seemed to have, so not sure it's the fundraisers. elected public officials in me instances will, when i hearhe tm republican establishment, ihi of republican office holders, bo in congress an stathouses around the country. but the way we do our delegat all clear that the w is not at establishment will have control over the delegates or ow their states vote in primaries. 169 delegates, enat rub suspended his campaign, b h can technically still raise money to pay off debts. does he still control those
delegates? mr. ginsberg: that's going to depend very much state by state. what happens when a candidate suspends a campaign is that different state laws have different requirements on whether those delegates are still bound to that candidate or not. in a few states, they will be bound to senator rubio, so they'll have to fill in senator rubio's name on the first ballot. in many states, the delegates become unbound, they may listen to him as a mter of loyalty, but they have no requirement under their state's law to vote the way he would like them to vote in cleveland. host: so they don't really have authority over these delegates? mr. ginsberg: correct. host: let's hear what the chairman of the party said on cnn about the party rules and what to expect in cleveland this july. >> what the rule says is that in order to be nominated on the floor you have to have the majority of delegat fm eight states. and by the way, that was put in
in 2012 for the 2012 convention. the rules committee for the 2016 convention will decide what that rule is. so now -- and there's nothing mysterious about that. i tend to be a person who likes to keep things the way they are. but it's not my decision. i'm not the person that gets to decide. the delegates to get elected in each of these states make the decisions for what the rules for the 2016 convention will say. i'm not saying anything nefarious. this is just the way it is. host: that's the chair of the party. let me ask you about the latform process as well. mr. ginsberg: each state delegation will elect two people to serve on the platform committee to come up with that. there are four committees
altogether at the convention. the rules committee that we talked about, the platform committee, a credentials committee that will hear any challenges to the proper eating of delegates. host: the r.n.c. and your obviously former general council, you understand this better than anyone, is preparing for this possibility. mr. ginsberg: yeah. the chairman said that. i think you have to prepare for all possibilities when you've got responsibilities for the conventionment and so that's the proper thing to do. it is now a possibility, as we've read in countless articles going through the delegate math. host: so based on history, what we've been talking about here one in early june, no
candidate has the 1,237 delegates. what is that process going to look like for the campaigns from june until mid july? mr. ginsberg: well, it will be an interesting time for them. they will need to go and especially concentrate on the unbound delegates. there are 116 unbound delegates from states that don't hold state-wide votes. there are the pennsylvania delegates that you mentioned, so that's 166 delegates you know will be unbound. there are an additional 12 from can dates who dropped out before -- candidates who dropped out before senator rubio did. then the marco rubio delegates, which are about 159 but slightly fewer than that because of the state rules that will have them vote for senator rubio. so the campaigns in that period , if there is no majority delegate holder, will go around to the unbound delegates, try and convince them to come vote with them on the first ballot. those delegates are going to be
extraordinarily popular people. i suspect that they will have many vitters to their homes. -- visitors to their homes. host: who determines who sit on the rules committee? mr. ginsberg: that's termed by each state's delegation, so once the delegation is chosen, in state conventions or by state executive committee, the members of the actual delegation to the national committee will vote. and put two people on rules, two on credentials, two on platform, two on permanent gazaon. host: when donald trump says if he's denied the nomination ris woulbreak out in cleland, for him or anybody comes in with a vera, majority of those going into the coenappe to those des? how does the r.n.c. prepare for the anger, the frustration, the resentment they may feel this nomination was taken away from them? mr. ginsberg: i think the rules are the rules. as the chairman said in the tape that you showed, the rules say that you have to have a majority of delegates to the
convention. it's not a plurality. historically conventions have majority winners, not plurality winners. because you want the strongest possible candidate. you have to get a majority of your base agreeing that that should be the candidate. o that's the reason you have the majority in the rules. in republican national convention rules, it's the majority of delegates to the entire convention. host: what what questions do you think these campaigns need to ask themselves in terms of what the rules state, what the delegates will be up to and how they prepare for all of this? guest: the first question to be asked is how do i win delegates in individual states? this is still about winning elections for now. the second question is, how do i go to enough states, either through their conveio