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tv   Key Capitol Hill Hearings  CSPAN  June 28, 2016 10:00pm-12:01am EDT

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this.the first republican georgee promotion of domestic manufacturing would be among the first consequences to flow from an energetic government. alexander hamilton spoke frequently of the expediency of encouraging manufacturing in, in , in the united states. [applause] listen to this. listen to this. the first republican president, abraham lincoln, warned "the abandonment of the protective policy by the american government will produce want and ruin among our people."
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he understood it better than our current politicians, that is why he was abraham lincoln, i guess. [applause] our original constitution did not even have an income tax. instead it had tariffs emphasizing taxation of foreign, not domestic, production. today, 240 years him after the revolution, we have turned things completely upside down. we tax, regulate, and restrict our companies to death and allow foreign countries that cheat to export their goods to us, tax-free. how stupid is that? how could it happen? him him him [applause]
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ladies and gentlemen, it is time to declare our economic independence once again. -- means [applause] that means voting for donald trump. i will do it, no doubt about it. not even a little doubt. it means reversing 2 of the worst legacies of the clinton years. america has lost 1/3 of its manufacturing jobs since 1997. even as the country has increased the population by 50 million people. at the center of the catastrophe are 2 trade deals pushed by bill and hillary clinton. the north american free trade first, agreement, or the disaster called nafta. second, china's entry into the
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world trade organization. nafta was the worst trade deal. china's entrance into the world trade organization has enabled the greatest job theft in the history of our country. it was bill clinton who signed nafta. people don't remember. in 1993. hillary clinton who supported it. the havoc that it wreaked after he left office was unbelievable. it was also bill clinton who lobbied for china's disastrous entry into the world trade organization, and hillary clinton who backed that terrible, terrible agreement.
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as secretary of state, hillary clinton stood by idly while china cheated on its currency, added another trillion dollars to the trade deficit, and stole hundreds of billions of dollars in our intellectual property. [applause] i have been talking about china for many years. you know what? no one listens. they are listening now. that, i can tell you. [applause] the city of pittsburgh and the state of pennsylvania have lost 1/3 of their manufacturing jobs since the clinton's put china into the wto. 50,000 factories across america have shut their doors in that time. this factory, because of your great owners, dave and gloria, is hanging in. they just told me, it is not
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easy. almost half of all of our manufacturing and trade deficits, and goods with the world, is the result of trade with china. it was also hillary clinton, the secretary of state, who showed us into a job-killing deal with south korea as reported by the economic policy institute in may. this deal -- trade deficit with south korea and destroyed nearly 100,000 american jobs. as bernie sanders said, hillary clinton voted for every trade agreement that has cost the workers of this country millions of jobs. [applause]
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great trade deals is the quickest way to bring our jobs back to our country. to understand why trade reform creates jobs and it creates a lot of them, we need to understand how all nations grow and prosper. massive trade deficit subtracts directly from our gross domestic product. from 1947 to 2001, a span of over five-decades, our inflation adjusted gross domestic product grew over 5%. since 2002, after we fully opened our markets to chinese import, the gdp growth rate has been cut in half. but is this mean for america? not good. for every 1% of gdp growth we failed to generate in any given year, we failed to create over
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one million jobs. what a waste. what a sad, sad thing. [applause] american's job creation deficit, due to slower growth since 2002, is well over 20 million jobs. that is just about the number of jobs our country needs right now to put america back to work at decent wages. wages are very low, because there is no competition. they will go up because we're going to thrive as a country. [applause]
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the transpacific partnership is the greatest danger yet. the tpp, as it is known, would be the death blow for american manufacturing. it would give the economic leverage to in international corporation i would put the interest of foreign countries above our own. it would put cheaters, they are not playing by the rules. they are cheating. it would make it easier for trading competitors to ship cheap subsidized goods into the united states market while allowing foreign countries to continue putting up barriers in front of our exports. it is very hard to export to their countries. they make it difficult.
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independence.the tpp creates a we on the other hand -- come on in, everybody. come on in. that leadership. the tpp would lower tariffs will leaving in place for and practices that keep american cars from being sold overseas. that isn't all. china will enter the tpp through the back door at a later date. they are watching, studying, and they are not in it now, but if it is, they will be in it. if it is not, they will pass. the agreement will force american workers to compete directly against workers from vietnam. one of the lowest wage countries on earth. not only will the tpp undermine our economy, but our independence. the tpp creates a new international coalition that creates decisions the american people are no longer given the right to veto. these commissions are great for
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hillary's wall street funders who can spend vast amounts of money to influence the people on the commissions and the outcome. it should be no surprise that hillary clinton, according to bloomberg, took a leading part in drafting the transpacific partnership. please remember that. especially in november. [applause] she praised or pushed the tpp on 45 different occasions. even called it the gold standard. hillary clinton was totally for the tpp just a short while ago.
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when she saw my stance, which is totally against, she was shamed into saying she would be against it too. i will tell you, it was the same shame she had recently where she was forced into saying "radical islamic terrorism." she didn't want to say it, but she was shamed into that one. [applause] have no doubt that she will immediately approve it if it is put before her. that is guaranteed guaranteed. she will do this just as she has betrayed american workers. from wall street and throughout her career. her whole career she has betrayed the american worker. she is trying to put on a good front. she will betray you again. her career and her husband have signed so many disasters. never forget nafta. her career and her husband have signed so many disasters.
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never forget nafta. never forget it, because you know what it has done. i know what it has done. in touring, i've seen the devastation it left behind. she would make a small token change, declare the tpp pact fixed, ram it through, and you would suffer. that is why hillary is saying she only has problems with tpp in its current form. that means they will make a two-word change, they will fix it, and she will feel great. she can rush to embrace it again and will at the earliest opportunity. if the media doesn't believe me, i have a challenge for you and hillary. ask hillary if she is willing to withdraw from the tpp her first day in office and unconditionally rule out its passage in any form. [applause] there's no way to fix tpp.
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we need bilateral trade deals. we do not need to enter into another massive international agreement that ties us up and binds us down, like tpp does. [applause] a trumpetd him administration will change our trade policies, quickly. thank you. here are seven steps i would pursue right away to bring back our jobs. number one. i am going to withdraw the united states from the transpacific partnership, which has not yet been ratified.
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i am going to appoint the toughest and smartest, and i know them all, trade negotiators to fight on behalf of american workers. [applause] i am going to direct the secretary of commerce to identify every violation of trade agreements a foreign country is currently using to harm you, the american worker. i will then interact all appropriate agencies to use every tool under american and international law to end these abuses. abuse is the right word. [applause]
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i will tell our nafta partners that i attend to immediately renegotiate the terms of that agreement to get a better deal by a lot. not just a little, by a lot for our workers. [applause] if they don't agree to a renegotiation, which they might not because they are so used to having their own way -- not with trump they won't have their own way. [applause] then, i will submit under article 2205 under the nafta agreement that america intends to withdraw from the deal. [applause]
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number five, i will instruct my treasury secretary to label china a currency manipulator, which should have been done years ago. any country that devalues their currency in order to take unfair advantage of the united states, which is many countries, will be met with sharply. that includes tariffs and taxes. [applause] number six, i am going to instruct the u.s. trade representative to bring trade cases against china, both in this country and at the wto. [applause] china's unfair subsidy behavior is prohibited under the terms of its entrance to the wto. i intend to enforce those rules and regulations.
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they sickly, i intend to enforce -- basically, i intend to enforce the agreement with all countries, including china. 7, if china does not stop illegal activities, including the theft of american trade secrets, i will use every lawful -- this is so easy, i love saying this -- i would use every lawful presidential power to remedy trade disputes, including the application of tariffs consistent with section 201 and 301 of the trade act of 1974, and section 232 of the trade expansion act of 1962. when they say trade expansion, they are talking about other countries, not us.
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there is no expansion. they get the expansion, we get the joblessness. it is not going to happen anymore. [applause] president reagan deployed similar trade measures when motorcycle and semi conductor imports threatened u.s. industry. i remember. his tariff on japanese motorcycles was 45%. his tariff to shield american semi conductor industry was 100% . that had a big impact. hillary clinton and her campaign of fear will try to spread the lie that these actions will start a trade war. you already have a trade war and we are losing badly. [applause] she has it completely backwards.
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hillary clinton unleashed a trade war against the american worker when she supported one terrible deal after another. from nafta, south korea, china -- it doesn't matter where she went, the american worker was hurt. you will be hurt worse than before if she becomes president of the united states. that i can tell you. [applause] a trump administration will end the war by getting a fair deal for the american people and the american worker. the era of economic surrender will finally be over. you will not the it anymore. i cannot guarantee it, because after me they will probably start doing it again. but we will have 4 and maybe 8 great productive years. will make sure we never go back. [applause]
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thank you. thank you, very much. thank you. a new era of prosperity will finally begun. americans will be independent once more. doesn't that sound great? [applause] under a trump presidency, the american worker will finally have a president who will protect them and fight for them. [applause] we will stand up to trade cheating. cheaters, that is what they are. we will stand up to trade cheats anywhere and everywhere it threatens the american job. [applause]
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we will make america the best place in the world to start a business. we will hire workers who will open factories, and we will get rid of these horrible regulations that make it impossible to do business in this country. [applause] this will also include massive tax reform to lift the crushing burden on american workers and businesses. we will get rid of all of these rules, problems, and bureaucracy which are destroying absolutely destroying our job creation capacity. we used to be the best in the world, now we are getting close to the bottom. [applause] many people think these regulations are an even greater impediment than the fact that we are one of the highest taxed
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nations in the world. we are also going to fully capture of america's tremendous energy capacity. this will create for our workers roads for the economy, and , reduce budget deficits, which are massive. yearly budget deficits are massive. on trade deficits, we don't want to talk about it. hillary clinton wants to shut down energy production and the mine. she wants to shutdown, she said it recently, she wants to shut down the miners. i want to do exactly the opposite. [applause] a trump administration will
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ensure that we start using american steel for american infrastructure. [applause] and aluminum. [applause] just like the american steel from pennsylvania that built the empire state building, it will be american steel that will fortify america's crumbling bridges. it will be american steel that sends our skyscrapers soaring into the sky. a beautiful site. more beautiful with american steel. it will be american steel that rebuilds our cities. it will be american hands that
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remake this country. it will be american energy mined from american resources that powers this country. [applause] it will be american workers who are hired to do the job. american workers. we are going to put american steel, and aluminum, back into the backbone of our country. [applause] this alone will create massive numbers of jobs. high-paying jobs. good jobs. not the jobs we have today, which everyone agrees are bad jobs. we will create massive numbers of good jobs. on trade, immigration, foreign policy, we are going to put america first again.
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[applause] we are going to make america wealthy again. [applause] we're going to reject hillary clinton's policy of fear and her policy of absolute nonsense, because it is not working. it is grossly incompetent, we cannot take it any longer, and we are not going to take it any longer. [applause] we are going to embrace the possibilities of change, but real change, not obama change. real change. [applause] it is time to believe in the future. it is time to believe in each other. it is time to believe in america again. this is how we are going to make america great again for
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all americans. for all americans. [applause] we are going to make america great again for everyone. greater than ever before. i promise you, if i become president, we will be working again. we will have great jobs again. you will be proud of your president. you will be proud, proud, proud of your country once again for that thank you, very much. i appreciate it. thank you, very much. i appreciate it. thank you, very much. [applause]
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>> c-span's washington journal live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. withg up when they morning the release of the benghazi report, we want to open the conversation on the report to will move thee conversation to immigration policy in the u.s., including the recent supreme court decision on president obama's immigration order and more from our recent visit to laredo, texas as we talk to custom border officials about immigration. we will also look at the immigration debate surrounding campaign in the united kingdom. be sure to wash washington journal. join the discussion. on theng up, a hearing global fight against isis. and the benghazi committee
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report on the 2012 attack in libya. and later, donald trump her remarks on u.s. trade policy and the economy. >> president obama travels to canada for a state visit and meetings with canadian prime minister justin trudeau and mexican president enrique pena. can see it here on c-span. later, our coverage continues as president obama addresses the canadian parliament. >> this weekend on c-span cities tour along with our comcast cable partners, we explore the history and literary life of provo, utah. a source proprietor has been collecting rare books from all over the world showcases many of his great finds, including the
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book of mormon and an original sense."'common >> thomas payne wanted to have this printed and wanted the proceeds to buy the soldiers mittens. after it went through three printings, they had a falling out and thomas payne allowed anybody to print it. he lowered the price and said anyone can print it and that is one reason the book is so well-known. of a peculiar people talks about anti-mormonism in america since its founding in the 1830's. >> the latter-day saints if it operably in that because not only are they a religious minority, they are a religious minority who over time have figured in disproportionately visible ways in the debates about religion. american history tv, take a tour of the brueggemann
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university of paleontology and see the dinosaur fossils and have a doctor changed the way fossils and bones are displayed. >> the armature and the steel supports, the animal looks more alive in a sense that you get the feeling that these are bones, but, you know, it brings life to these bones. announcer: and the professor of history at brigham young university tells how the pioneers first settled salt lake city and began setting up communities, and some families establish the settlement of provo in 1849. watch the c-span cities tour to robocop utah, on c-span2 must be as book tv and sunday afternoon on american history to the on c-span3.
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the c-span cities tour, working with our cable affiliates and visiting cities across the country. announcer: now, a hearing on the fight against isis. envoy cial presidential mcgurk testified before the committee for an hour and 45 minutes.
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>> we will come to order. mr.mcgurk with most of you ortify,, whether classified public, we leave more informed, -- livefully you will a up to that today. after he began military operations, isis has lost territory. lettor in iraq, and 20% -- me use my glasses here, brett, just one second. to yourording territory. unfortunately, that progress on creates new threats
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to our special interest, as our cia director said this, as you continue to make gains, isis will likely intensify its global terror campaign and that the administration's efforts have not reduce the root of austria's terrorism give ability and global reach. "the new york times" reported 1200 people outside of iraq and -- have not reduce the roots of terrorism and give the ability of global reach. in the wake of the recent terrorist attack in orlando, we expect you provide and hope you will provide an honest assessment of where the global fight against isis is going and address some of the fundament of questions we all have. in particular, i would like to to your take on the actions address the terror threat by isis, and in spite of their losses in iraq and syria, again, which we herald, and how the
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coalition plans to defeat isis militarily. some of the other questions i do theseanswer include syria democratic forces, and i think there is a lot of confusion about the various coalitions that are countering ad and also countering isis which is mainly made up of kurds , have enough people to clear them from the northern syria area, and even if we continue to take back territory from isis, are those gains backed by a little process necessary to sustain them? there are rubs between that group and others and between that group and turkey fell, and as we leave it to its own accord, if you will, with these groups taking on isis in their own ways and taking on ways, will it own take us down the road to a settlement, or is the success of the battleground leading to the
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same vacuum it created isis in the first place. finally, what about the glaring disparity and a failing to matter process dependent upon a .ransition from assad i do not see how the isis coalition can be successful while the syrian civil war continues. this a ministration has declared that assad must go, but it certainly appears at that position is changing or has changed. i do not see how what is left of the political process possibly leads to a thought's -- to assad's departure. home and our at military response to isis does not reflect the threat to the united states. i think many of us grow frustrated with the administration's optimistic rhetoric that does not often
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match results. having proxies to the fighting is creating a range of diplomatic problems that will have ramifications for years to come. with that, a gimp, i want to thank you for your service to our country. i want to thank you for the way suchalk with all of us in a direct manner, and we look forward to your testimony, and with that, our distinguished ranking manner -- member, mr. carter. mr. carter: i agree, anytime you have appeared before the committee, we have a great deal of confidence, so thank you again for the manner with which you have conducted this office. is a global, isis threat, both to the physical safety and the democratic values we hold clear. it destabilizes our already weak inspiresd
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radicalization of individuals to perpetuate terrorism with known countries as we, and our allies, have experienced. as we see every day across the middle east, europe, and elsewhere, isis attacks propaganda, design not only to kill but to turn communities against one another. sunnis against shia. muslim against christian. immigrants against citizens. to defeat isis, we are mobilizing the international --munity military l.a. militarily and economically and politically to fight extremism in our owns political discourse. due to the efforts of the administration, the united states leads a 66 participant coalition against terrorism. in the military sphere, we are shrinking the isis safe havens .n places like falluja
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their flow of foreign fighters has been cut, and they have lost millions in revenues. our witness sure will agree, there is a lot more that needs to be done. there are no quick answers to this challenge. these efforts have not been without serious costs. we stand in solidarity with countries such as jordan, which suffered another terror attack in recent days. i commit our witness for his heent visit to jordan, where gave our unwavering support to the jordanian people. efforts to global buy isis will not be easy. as cia director john brennan experiencess isis have your losses, it will intensify its global campaign. we have to be careful about that. we might be able to contain them on the ground, but then what happens with global terrorism is to mark we have to redouble our efforts, especially in the areas liberated that were held by isis.
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tens of thousands of people who have been freed from isis captivity are now living in displacement camps in horrible conditions under intense summer desert heat. administration's recent pledge to provide $20 million of the military in a to the united nations committee on refugees, a right response, but more needs to be done. i call on our partner nations to assist falluja residents meeting border food and more. we cannot let them suffer even more. on july 20, the united states would join with canada, germany, and japan at a conference in washington. this is a critical opportunity for the international community to continue to support stabilization efforts in iraq. in addition to the military and efforts, our coalition must work harder on long-term reconstruction and reconciliation efforts. some fear political
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participation. this would only lead to another. the real threat against isis and their ilk comes not just from thebarrel of a gun but from ballot box, the courthouse, and a growing economy. the prime minister needs international aid now, and he needs international support to keep spoilers, such as iran, from its interference in politics. let me conclude with this. as i stated earlier, isis challenge is not only our physical well-being but are both of pluralism and openness. -- notnot commit to only only defeating isis on the battlefield but their poisonous narrative of division. together, in it regardless of our nationality. we must fight the forces of divisiveness at home and abroad. mr. chairman, i look forward to hearing from our witness.
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senator corker: your business card must be very large. the thank you for being here today. we know that you realize you can summarize your comments, if you wish. testimony, without objection, will be entered into the record, and with that, thank you for being here. you, chairmanank corker, ranking member cardin, and members. orlando, we wish a full recovery to the wounded. the attacks underscore the
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imperative need to the heat -- to defeat isil across its global networks. i just returned from a visit to iraq, jordan, israel, and jordan, as senator cardin dayioned, i met just one after a suicide bomber killed seven guarding their board. in egypt, egyptian forces are isilggling against an branch, and we are offering assistance. in israel, they are looking to compensate for losses of manpower and territory, and we must not let them succeed, and in iraq, but our support and assistance, they are rooting out isil strongholds one by one, most recently in falluja, where they held a population hostage for 30 months. my statement today will highlight the progress we are making against iphone -- isil
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but it will not diminish the challenge that now confronts much of the world. we analyze them in three ways, the core, the network, propaganda networks, and financial networks. and there are their affiliates that seek to expand their reach. we have our coalitions that seek to defeat them in three areas. my written notes have indicators which are many now trending in the right direction. many are now sharing information to identify those who are still traveling. outside financing has been severed, and internal financing has taken a hit through painstaking intelligence work and precision targeting by military forces in iraq and syria. s propaganda is now being challenged 24/7 with private companies and individuals.
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their leaders are either in hiding or are being killed now at a rate of one every three days, including one of the main deputies. some terrorists killed by u.s. military forces. territory is shrinking, losing nearly 50% of territory once controlled in iraq and 20% in syria over the last 18 months. -- what makesl isil different is what it proclaims as a phony caliphate, a notion that has been a primary driver and recruitment for the tens of thousands of foreign fighters that have joined them in syria and iraq. extractallows them to vast resources from the territory, and most important way, to launch sophisticated attacks. the attacks we have seen in brussels and paris, for example, we believe stems from their network, and it has sent operatives through a pocket.
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take their we must territory away from them, and just as important, stabilize areas after. as you mentioned, mr. chairman. highlightke to briefly how we're doing so, pointing to three areas on the map that i have attached to my written testimony. number one is a pocket. the military council, and these are local people seeking to liberate their own territory launched anhey attack across the phrase river. approximately 3500 strong and is made up primarily of arabs, with kurds in along with our special forces. putting together this coalition took painstaking work, military and diplomatic, but the real results thus far are promising. 1000 squareiberated kilometers, and they are beginning to push him,
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neighborhood by neighborhood. as they move, they are providing vital information on the network. we believe providing them support to liberate their own areas is a model to future operations. from the other end of the pocket, modern operation groups are beginning to push against them. has ordered a fight to the death, but now that we are moving onto w fronts, they are beginning to degrade. to help to take this territory away from them entirely. ul.ber five on the map is mos this is coordinated from a joint base where he tragically lost a u.s. marine last month. these operations, one of which is just south of mosul, ongoing at this hour, are setting up for the operation. that will be a significant alitary challenge that also humanitarian challenge. the planning is now underway.
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in the iraqi kurdistan region, i was invited with ambassador with to attend a meeting the a national security advisor to address the difficult challenges in the campaign. this is one of the more positive meetings i have attended in iraq. focusing on the coming liberation of mosul and west must be done, including for the diverse communities to work together. to iraqi government agreed pay and equip thousand for that campaign, representing arabs, kurds, christians, ucd yazidis, and others. this is building on a model that has worked in to create -- tikrit, to return with significant backing and support from our coalition. number sevennbar,
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and eight on the map, iraqi forces with tribal fighters have over the past few months alone liberated ramadi, falluja, moore, and broke a two-year siege in the city of hadifa. not lost a battle now in more than a year, and key decisions by the prime minister to empower the local people in their own liberation. this is not to overshadow the serious problems that have occurred, including reports of , but there, abuses the iraqi government has taken immediate efforts. there is much work to do, particularly in falluja, where they overwhelm the capacity of local responders. thanks to quick responses, tens of millions of dollars in aid is now flowing to these refugee
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camps, and the u.n. is helpful when they get returns next month. as senator cardin mentioned, we will also have a very important pledging conference in washington to generate the resources needed to care for these people. returning people to their homes is a key priority for our coalition, and today in a rat, 95% of the population of tikrit and more have gone back. accordingly, as we look to accelerate the defeat of isil in these areas, we are focused on what comes after, as you mentioned, mr. chairman, and to assure that their defeat is lasting. in sum, we had progress, but there is a lot left to do here at home and around the world against this unprecedented grateful areas i am for this opportunity to appear before you, and i am happy to address your questions.
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sen. corker: and i will reserve my time in turn to the ranking member. cardin: we have had military success in the past. can we hold that military success? are we able to develop functioning governments? iraq, as we are starting to get more territory, falluja having fallen, the sunni civilian population is justifiably concerned as to their safety as relates to the shia militia. what steps are we taking to protect the civilian population in these areas that we have been -- militarilyry reclaim? senator, thank you. this has been a primary focus of ours from day one. no areas have been taken from them that they have been able to
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retake, and that is fairly significant, given how difficult the situation is in iraq. what we have done from day one, and this goes back to the fall of 2014. we are not in the business of reconstructing iraq or repeating mistakes we have made in the past. we're trying to revolutionize how we do that. we have a partner who believes in decentralizing power as much as possible and empowering local people, so the financial example of this was in to treat -- in tikrit. it was entirely depopulated by isil in 2014, a site of massive atrocities and mass killing's. was it was liberated, through the coalition, we were able to flood resources there are a stabilization fund that we established through the coalition, and this is focused on getting people back to their
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homes, and returning people back to their homes, it is important to recognize, we have looked at this historically. ever, ande years, if thereby empowering their local leaders and making sure their theurces are there, returnees reach a tipping point, and now we have almost the entire city back on the streets of tikrit. senator cardin: has you deal with the militias? mr. mcgurk: great question. they have to work with the iraqi state. that is a principle. we think most of these popular mobilization forces do operate under the control of the iraqi dote, that about 15% or 20% not, in those groups are a fundamental problem. another thing we want to do is make sure they stay out of sunni areas, where they can cause real and this is one thing that gave the population the confidence to return. when wea principle
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support iraqi forces in the military campaign, we only support forces on the ground operating strictly under command and control. that means going through an iraqi chain of command were we are working with iraqi commanders. if there is a unit that is not operating under that structure -- senator cardin: are you confident they will be able to maintain the safety of the sunni civilians? they just completed the liberation of the last neighborhood this weekend. we have 80,000 displaced people. there is one of the u.n. programs later this week. they are hopeful that all of these will be under shelter by the middle of this week and will begin returns next month. what is also somewhat encouraging about falluja is that the destruction in the city looks to be fairly minimal compared to other operations, so we are hopeful we can return the people of falluja to the streets
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as soon as possible. government can lead that, and, of course, the shia militia groups that operate outside the law have to be out of the city. otherwise, the people will not return, and we have a plan with local falluja police, policeman there who have been trained really for the last year, waiting to go back to guard their streets. tikrit,what we did in and that is what we hope to do with falluja. senator cardin: let me laugh -- ask a question. they were defining it by territory. they are now losing territory. will they be defining it through thernational terrorism, by sensational attacks that we see all too often? can we expect that that may accelerate? what can we do to counter that if that appears to be their game plan? isilcgurk: so, senator,
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has always talked about external attacks, and i think i talked about this in 2013. senator cardin: but as they start to lose territory, is it likely they will accelerate that part of their campaign? mr. mcgurk: their core banner has been the caliphate, maintaining and expanding their caliphate, and as i mentioned in my written testimony, he said, we may lose all of our territory, including most of -- including mosul. this is what director brennan testified to last week. this is extraordinarily difficult to stop. we have to remain vigilant. this is why we have a global coalition not just for iraq and we areut to make sure working with interval so that as these people try to travel, they can be picked up, and we are doing better at that now, but we have a ways to go, and we cannot it was al qaeda
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in iraq, and they split in two directions, one about a state like caliphate entity, and another one in syria, which does not really have the notion of establishing a caliphate, but they are both al qaeda. kill anyonent to who does not agree with them, and israel will continue -- we are not just taking back territory. we are correct -- collecting s oftantial amount information, and that helps us root it out, not only in syria but in the branches were it exists in syria and other places.
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senator: thank you. they have not reduce the terrorism capability in global reach, and they remain a resilient and largely cohesive energy -- entity. do you disagree with that assessment? i agree with the director, of course, and i think you see in my testimony that i am the last one working on this complicated issue every day to diminish this significant threat. you know, let me just put a number on it. 40,000 foreign fighters have traveled in the last four or five years, indoctrinated with this jihad ideology. that is almost twice as many from the numbers we saw that went to afghanistan in the 1980's, and we know what that eventually led to, so this is something we have not seen before, and you add to it social media and the speed of travel
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now, everything, it is an unprecedented challenge, and it is going to be with us for years. senator johnson: do you agree with director brendan cash brennan? -- do you agree with the director? the attack but brussels and paris are what they clan from their sanctuaries, so we believe those were organized in raqqa. it is harder to do when you are pressing on their territory. the kinds of attacks that are very difficult to stop. senator johnson: my point is, until we actually defeat them, we can nibble around the edges, we can make some progress, we can push them out of iraq, and, i mean, i have yet to hear how this administration has a game plan for actually defeating them. i mean, i hear the game plan for making progress, it actually the
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feeding them, and the best point i'm trying to make, if we do not defeat them, if we do not deny them territory, if we do not deny them the caliphate, if we do not take away those safe havens, they are incredibly sophisticated. what we have seen in san bernardino and in orlando, tragically. there was, by the way, a foiled plot against a masonic temple in wisconsin. also isis inspired. we have to defeat them. where is our strategy for that? we are planning to defeat them. mosul, we -- in haven't focused on key moments, cutting them off, and another is about isolating raqqa. johnson: when did the three-your clock start?
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present obama declared 22 months. starts tickingck on a three-year plan? togetherk: week this -- we put this together in 2014. senator johnson: deny them the safe havens in syria in, basically, 14 months, if it is a three-your game plan? three-year game plan? i was there last week, and we want to do it as soon as possible. the force that has to move on primarily arab a force. qa. then the plan is raq so we are moving at a temper that i believe will lead to their defeat. senator johnson: we are not
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going to defeat them in 14 months, are we? that is my point. we are not doing this fast enough. it becomes more dangerous. we have not reduced their terrorism capability or their global reach. when are we going to have a game plan from this a ministration to actually accomplish the goal question or it is not what to happen in the three-year timeframe. what is it going to take? mr. speed upe want to their defeat in mosul. we are using helicopters and advisers. there is an operation going on right now to the south that is readable to isolating them. another operation is ongoing right now that is hard fighting. once that is done, that sets the conditions for raqqa. it is a step-by-step process to andto raqqa ande mo --
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mosul. senator johnson: look. i appreciate your efforts, but i agree with you. we are not moving fast enough. senator: thank you. senator: i am not going to repeat questioning that we had in earlier hearings, but i share senator johnson's -- some of his critiques, but we are not moving fast enough. i think congress has been in a position that we want to criticize the administration, but we are 22 months in on something we have not debated and voted on. i compare this to the level of detail that we just undertook to have their eight narrow reforms in the department of defense, and the amount of discussion, about an ongoing war were 17 people have been killed, and others have been injured -- it's done for me, but let me pass
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that bought, because i am well on the record on that. let me get to some particulars. congratulate our troops and the efforts they have made on the battlefield to shrink the isil holds, and that is notable, but when we talk about the battlefield where i have concerns. let's start with libya. libya has been losing its center of gravity. that has been a positive, but where does the coalition believe the next front will open up in north africa? there are about 5000 fighters in libya. where are they located, and what is being done to target them? i think north africa, not only to the dangers in africa but also the presence to -- proximity to europe is a concern. mr. mcgurk: thank you, senator.
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i was there to discuss this. libya is a good example. it highlights how complicated this is. most foreign fighters that have joined isil have come out of tunisia, what is seen as some of the bright spot of the arab spring, and it shows what is indoctrinating the young people, some of it is sectarianism, but some of it is something else. 6000 tunisians, many of whom have gone to libya, and this is a real problem. tunisia is a coalition partner, and we are working closely with them. and with egypt and the situation in libya, but also, the bright spot in libya is that the libyans are rejecting the presence of daish. there is this hockey like stick growth. are they matching what they tried to do in iraq and syria, and it turns out that that has not been the case. they have kind of plateaued at about 5000 fighters, 6000 fighters. that is our assessment.
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and the forces aligned with the new national court have made more progress, more progress than we have anticipated, so now we are looking at how do we accelerate that is being made, so i am purely confident now that we have a strategy in place in libya they can at least begin to degrade that presence. libya has other problems. the concern we have about the accelerated growth of isil is something that appears to be mitigated, but we have to keep at it. been ankaine: there has aggressive recruitment efforts in the philippines, working on the leadership there of one man, and there has even been recruiting efforts in countries like malaysia to get foreign fighters to go not to just syria and iraq but to go to the philippines. il and others in southeast asia. mr. mcgurk: another great
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question. i was, i year ago, in singapore and malaysia. of these are pre-existing terror groups that have pledged and allegiance, and the question we ask, what is the, denominated all around the world as to why these groups are flying the flag -- what is the reason around the world why they are flying the flag of isil? so i saw the announcement in the philippines recently, and, again, and i mentioned this in my written testimony, we cannot get too distracted anytime a pre-existing terror group flies the flag of isil, because we are already dealing with this in a number of ways. in iraq, they are sending some of their best into libya.
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one we targeted and killed. -- leadersn leapers try to transfer. that is where we are concerned. we have not seen that in southeast asia. we have to work with our partners around the world and particularly in southeast asia to make sure these remain contained, but we are not seeing that libya like transfer of resources from iail central all of the way out -- from isil central. senator kaine: thank you. my time is up. senator: like the state worksment that mr. mcgurk for an like the white house, we agree that this administration has all legal authority necessary to combat isis, so i just want that to be stated. certainly, we have had multiple hearings on how to deal with this, and i personally am pushed
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back against efforts to limit his ability to conduct the operations, which much of the discussions around the map has that about, so i just want to say again, i support the efforts that are underway. i would like to see it happen in a much more expeditious manner. i know it is creating threats to our homeland, which we have got do support the i administration's statement that they have the legal basis to do dot they are doing, and i what i do, everything i can, to keep up this body from limiting their ability to do that. with that, i will turn to the senator. mr.tor: thank you, chairman. thank you for the testimony. turning to your statement about being able to deny them territory and impact their ability to foment terrorism elsewhere or direct activities, are we seeing a difference in in that their main
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syria,rters in raqqa, has not really been impacted? with the areas we have taken that? excellent. so their ability to move qqa hass across raq been significantly degraded. we have cut off the main roads mosul, andqa and on thee first -- forced roads. we have degraded their ability to move fighters around, but most important for our homeland security, and this is why this manbij is so
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important. we have worked with turkey to close up that border on their side, and the turks have done an awful lot, and we commend them for that, but until we take the is able toway, isil move, so that is why this operation in manbij is critical. and what they have put out, they are saying, hey, do not come to syria anymore. do an attack at home, or go to libya. that is because it is much harder for them to get into syria. what we see every morning in terms of their ability to get people in, and once they are in, it is very hard to get out, and we want to make sure they do not get people in syria, and once they're in syria, that they never get out. senator: you mentioned that we are killing their leadership at a rate of one every three days. what impact has that had on
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their planning abilities? or abilitiesocus they have, whether caliphate's or others? i testified about a fell, and whatul we're seeing is a military like organization with command and control, the ability to move around and take entire cities. they cannot do that anymore, and their leaders are having a very hard time communicating. there are having a very hard time organizing where to put their resources, so we have really degraded their ability to command and control, one of the principles of defeating them, so taking out their leader is not a sufficient condition, but it is a necessary condition in order to degrade the overall network. senator flake: since the deal was struck, we hoped that some of the posture in the region would change. has there posture changed?
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and in syria, have we seen a change in terms of iran's behavior or their willingness to work with other groups in a positive way? or is it all still negative? i, in my role, have not seen a significant change in iranian behavior. isil is a threat. il frome fighting is time to time, but they are ,ealing with the assad regime and going to senator cardin's question, some are operating outside of the legal authority of the iraqis that, which is a threat to iraq's own sovereignty, supported by iran, and that is a huge problem, and we have not seen that diminished since the nuclear deal, certainly. senator flake: thank you. i share senator kaine's view.
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not to question whether or not we have the authority or the executive branch has the and even putting that aside, i think it is valuable for our adversaries and our allies to know that we speak with one voice here. as you mentioned, this is going to go on for a long, long time. and i think we would all benefit if congress weighed in more heavily. thank you. sen. corker: and: thank you. senator? you are awareure there was a widely reported story this week about weapons being stolen in jordan. to what extent do we think any of those weapons are going to isis? senator, i have seen those reports. i just cannot address the roots to that story. i might be able to address it in a different setting. to what extent does a story like that and the
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ability to steal under our noses and under the noses of the jordanians, who are one of our most important allies, are they ind as propaganda for isis attracting new fighters again and promoting their cause? mr. mcgurk: what i will say, having just been in jordan, i met the national security team, one of our close allies. are on the very front line of this fight, and i think they would be just as concerned as anyone here with stories like that. senator sheehan: i certainly agree that jordan has been a terrific ally, which is even more reason why we need to get to the bottom of what is going on there and address it in a way that does not allow it to continue there. let me ask, because it is there easy and canively create to be able to track what is happening on the battlefield with isis, to be able to talk
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about what the efforts are to address them, to be able to talk about who in their leadership we have taken out. i think it is much more difficult to talk and to address the underlying governance issues that have allowed isis to much harder to address the messaging that isis does to attract new fighters. can you talk about the extent to which this effort is engaged with both of those more difficult challenges? it is externally difficult, and that is why there is a balance between speed and sustainability. it is true. maybe there are some things we could do to speed it up, but then we would not have gains sustained. who is going to govern the city? it is the military and -- extraordinarily difficult. so what we try to do,
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particularly in iraq, and i think we have had some success here, is to make sure these conditions are in place before fromved to clear out isil populated areas, and the philosophy led by the prime minister is more decentralization, more federalism, more empowering local people to control their affairs, and that is very important and something that we very much support. we have seen the success into t.ete -- in tikri and this is shortly after isil was pushed out of remodel, but 100 were tragically killed, because as they leave, they put booby-traps in people's closets and refrigerators, and that is this organization is, and we raised $15 million initially, and we have people on the ground clearing blocked by block, and that is really going really well, but it is also an indicator of how difficult this
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is. we cannot just defeat isil. we have to have a lasting defeat. all of these things have to come together. it is one of the hardest things to do imaginable, but if you look at what we are trying to do and at the mobilization of the tribes, we never would have been able to clear all of this onritory in anbar province the jordanian border without the support of the local tribes. that took a lot of work. it took a lot of great work from our special forces that are out there working, even at the air base way out in had defect -- in hadifa but you have to have these, pieces together. senator sheehan: i think they have talked to making gains on the battlefield against isis that there is a greater likelihood that we will see s in the westack
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and other parts of the world to try to drive attention away from what is happening on the battlefield. do you share that assessment? mr. mcgurk: isil has talked about attacking us for years, so that is nothing new. the brussels and paris attacks were organized years ago, even before we started to take their territory away. one thing i think they will do, as they are losing this central narrative of the caliphate, this state, they will try to inspire through the internet these lone walk types of attacks, and any deranged individual can suddenly and getbanner of isil attention, and they recognize this and are trying to encourage it. we will push them out of mosul. we will push them out of raqqa. thethis underpinning of
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ideology, where anyone who disagrees with them deserves to god. that is what they believe. it is crazy. that will be with us for a while. we have to defeat them, but we also the our partners in the gulf and saudi arabia to fight , andideological battle they are doing so. senator sheehan: thank you. senator corker: if i may, we continue to hear, like from qatar, how they went to more fully and to the battle on the ground, if you will, and, of course, we hear lots of things. unless we see something, it is not real. they then talk about how the u.s. -- they have concerns about the united states' committment. us come withwith saudi arabia and others joining us more fully on the ground? mr. mcgurk: so i have been in
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the gulf a lot in the last year, and the saudi's are very focused on the conflict in yemen, and as we hope, the peace process would begin, and the conflict will begin to wind down. there will be an increasing daish.on ofhave heard these requests a possibility of troops on the ground, things like that. it is very important that all of this is organized under our coalition effort. we, of course, have planners of all of these countries at centcom about what we going to do, but i was there in saudi arabia at this summit about six weeks ago, and the saudi's make a very compelling case. is a threathat isil to them. they have plots inside saudi arabia. all must every few weeks, they are breaking up a plot, so it is
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an ideological struggle that has to be led by the saudi's and the egyptians and the leaders in the muslim world, where i do think they can take a leading role. you are working with them on that. not want toer: i do take up too much time, but actually participating. they fight in closed doors with us. -- they cite behind closed unknown,d it is not their unwillingness to really get engaged. away from the ideological, but back to what is actually happening on the ground, especially in syria. do you believe that the comments they are making are real? mr. mcgurk: i think -- we work very hard to match capabilities and capacity with needs, and i think i could go through in a very detailed way in a different setting height of what we are doing with each coalition partner. we would like to see those
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countries participate in the air campaign. the jordanians are per dissipating in the air campaign, and we really need more assets in the skies as we develop more intelligence and more targets, but in terms of ground capabilities, our focus on empowering local actors to the break their own territory is the most sustainable solution for feeding isil, and that will remain our fundamental approach. sen. corker: and senator isakson. senator isakson. in the sand not to cross, is that right? this should teach it bombing in syria at one point -- are we drawing lines -- in the sand not to cross, is that right, and about bombing syria at one point.
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we pretty much backed away from it. we'd drew a couple more lines in the sand, and then we had the 22-month game plan in going against ifo. there has not really been much mention of assad. where does he fit in this plan -- out isilisil right now? is mcgurk: as long as assad leading the government in damascus, this war will never and. that is something we stated very clearly to the russians and to the backers of the assad regime. it is a question about the best way to set the incentives for a sustainable transition. , regimemilitarily change is something we have seen before and is extremely risky
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with consequences. the russians have said that they support a transition in damascus. claimed thathave they will support a cessation of hostilities on the ground. peoplent putin went his saying he would support it. white frankly, the russians have not done in this regard with a promised, and this remains a very serious problem. senator isakson: are they the assad right now? of mcgurk: the level influence is something we look at. the russians were seen as the , and moreencer recently, we have started to see the armenians eclipse them a little bit, and both of them are backing the assad regime, and we say to the russians, look at this. you guys are in bed with the assad regime, with hezbollah,
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with the quds force. you guys, what is your long-term strategy here, and, friendly, i do not think they have one, so they came in to try to bolster up the assad regime, and i thought they would find a path out of syria, but that is not the case. the only way to have a sustainable solution is where our forces can organize against these extremist threats. myator isakson: and that is point. given the fact that there is not one, given the fact that syria has been decimated with a civil war over four or five years, given that the armenians are backing assad pretty steadily all of the way through, there assad's to be no end on ability to stay in place. am i correct? i think you have hit the nail on the head with a very difficult situation in syria. hostilities, of
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trying to do you escalate the violence, trying to mobilize isil, and where this really comes to a head is in a aleppo. there is one thing led by al qaeda. not part of the cessation of hostilities, and the russians know they have every right to go aleppo, butend instead, the regime is launching an attack against the opposition, so it is a very andous situation, senator, it is requiring a lot of our attention and focus, and the russians will either live up to their promise or not, but right now, putin is either proving unable to do what he promised his people he would do, or -- : maybe that in should not say or ask, but it d andrs that given assa
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what he has endured, and the matrix of what is going on in that part of the world, isl, which we're trying to eradicate, like senator johnson in his questioning, as long as assad is there, it will be hard to take benefit, because they by them being there, is that right? where the civil war starts to deescalate, and we saw the south of damascus, it frees up operation groups. the civil war is escalating. opposition groups are obviously fighting the regime, and that sil more space to grow, so dealing with the civil war, in order for a long-term solution, including with al qaeda in syria, we have to address. senator isakson: thank you for your service.
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we appreciate it very much. sen. corker:: before we go to senator mendez, you are learning about the relationships in other places. and you tell us where the central nervous system is relative to the inspiration to get people here in the united states and other places to conduct operations against westerners? where is that central nervous system housed? itit in the caliphate, or is outside? i will give you an example of how difficult this is. i believe it is in raqqa. to instigate these attacks, there was jihadi john, the brutal murderer, but he was also a computer hacker, and he would raqqa all day, trying to
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inspire attacks. he would just sit there in the apartment, with hundreds of civilians in the apartment building, and it creates a real dilemma. you have to take out jihadi john, we know where he is, being do not one to take out an apartment complex, and we had to wait for him to come outside. he was the number one guy on the computer all day, trying to inspire attacks, sitting there all day in the heart of a crowded apartment building, and that is why after manbij, we are to move down and isolate raqq. -- raqqa. mendezrker: with senator . senator mendez: we appreciate your work and wish you the best of luck. but i is some real concerns as i read the testimony and listened to some of your responses, so let me try and see if you can -- help mewage them
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with them. i want to return to the cia director's remarks, where he said against them on the battlefield and in the financial realm, our efforts have not reduce the group's terrorism and global reach and goes on to say the group would have to suffer even heavier losses, territory, for its terror capacity to decline significantly, and, in fact, we judge it will intensify its global terror campaign to maintain its dominance on the global terrorism agenda. and then i heard your response to senator cardin, when he asked, for example, in iraq, after we take territory
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back? and it begs the question, aren't we repeating past mistakes? these are places where our men and women gave their lives. midst of engaging in those same locations again as it relates to isil. how is this different? how is this suggestion and terms of holding territory after we and spent anit enormous amount of lives, we are this now for a second time, how is this not a repeat of past mistakes? >> thank you. we spent $60 billion on reconstruction in iraq and i do one that the record is
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is for reconstruction. we would identify big projects without the by edna of local people. funde have a stabilization that requires local people to identify immediate needs for their communities. but above the water back on, lights back on immediately. you mentioned the funds. but what are we doing to we , mozve the iraqi forces oh, to crete, will have the .bility to sustain and hold so we are not there for a third time? is at your view and that of the administration? ask as i mentioned, all of the areas have been taken by isil that have been taken
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from isil have not been retaken. organizing the people who know the streets to hold the territory after. so your answer is, yes. we believe the iraqis, once cleared, will be able to maintain territories on their own and be able to make sure isil does not recapture dominance. craigslist is not mean iraq will not have a host of problems for many years to come. and organize genocidal terrorist organization did something i do not think they will be able to do. >> let me turn to syria. i assume the administration view is the peace talks are our best avenue towards a solution. a fair statement? >> that remains a.m. international consensus.
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that to lead to a sustainable solution. and that is the administration's hope. the political transition in which is now enshrined in a un security council resolution. >> here is my problem. the united nations special envoy to syria has said he hoped syrian peace talks would resume in july. but only if it showed improvement. he said political talks could not proceed while talks were escalating. so on the one hand we place our hopes in the united nations process and encouraging the coalition to do the same, on the other hand the united nations does not have a way forward because the security and humanitarian on the ground is not an improvement.
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remains, thatn russia and iran have the same goals we do as a relates to syria and the syrian people. don't we need to be an engaging and trying to improve the security and humanitarian situation on the ground so that the aspirational political talks can move forward? shouldn't we be looking at safe zones? no fly zones? other elements of china to for thehe asus aspirational peace talk? >> there's no question that the amount of violence without the of hostilities, the conditions for meaningful process are extremely difficult. so you are right, on the humanitarian side, we have managed to reach almost at 10 times the amount of people that
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noteen met before but it is enough. the assad regime continues to attack areas after humanitarian areas. the real thing is aleppo. to tryworking very hard to deescalate that. but without asus station of -- of hostility, the political process in geneva really remains at a standstill. >> if i could before turning to sen. perdue:, there were a group of 51 people who dissented on u.s. policy, which i think is a in --hing that the state ust sites to let that take place. very highsense that leadership within the state putrtment has urged that we
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price on militarily. that the humanitarian aid is delivered, the next day a barrel bottom killing the very people he aid was given to. sense ofive us any whether there is a debate assadve to how to handle and the factored with gnosis nation occurring, that may be an enhanced military pressure from the united states may be around this is worth taking? looking very closely at how to have an forcible of hostilities they hand that is something very much under way. we have also looked very closely at the assad regime. statistics.n source about 100,000 fighters on the side of the assad regime have been killed.
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ofse are the types assumptions that four years ago i think many people assumed would lead to the positions that would set a political transition but it has not. what we need to is a.m. and forcible cessation of hostilities. >> which do not have been without pressure we are not going to get and i think everyone including you understands the circular situation we are in. that is not going to happen. we met with secretary kerry in munich. therer purdue and others felt the cessation issue was not real. it has not been real. see anything at present to that is going to change that dynamic. i look forward to questioning you further. i am going to go vote senator purdue and i hope i'll come back in time for you. senator markey is next and your now chairman.
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>> thank you. your testimony is always candid and to the point. i know you are the messenger. i am concerned about the 14 months now at the end of the three years and i am not putting words in your mouth. i am very concerned about that. i wanted on the record. i am concerned aut syria. it seems to me we have had witnesses giving us testimony that the best option is a coalition fighting sunni force. not an american force. not an outside force. but a sunni fighting force. in iraq we have issues with shia after it is town liberated and so forth. some of the major players have given us information that they and saudito stand up arabia has potentially 30,000 fighting troops were fighting isis in syria. that not a lack
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of u.s. leadership and resolve. they are waiting on the united states. can you speak about that in a little more detail? we get into syria and it is a much more confused battle space than what we see in iraq. we are seeing today and afghanistan, when the troops liberate a city and turn it over to the pleas, that is where the taliban comes back. the question is a different one. i'm trying to get in syria relative to what kind of fighting force will be able to sustain a long-term effort to not only take the ground but hold at once it is liberated in syria. premise here of what we need are local people to liberate and hold their own territory. and so in the sunni area of iraq , we need sunnis from local areas. tribes of mume
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bar province. we have a coalition led by italians trained by local police. to we have police leaders mobilize local people and that effort has been successful. we agree we need sunni arabs to be the ones to liberate and hold their own territory but oftentimes they need help. i so, and many of the cities and towns of health for years, they defended like in army. you cannot just take out a bunch of sunni tribesmen and train them for a couple weeks and put a city likeiberate falluja. it won't work. i've met with leaders exiled from iraq and syria and they claim to tens of thousands of people ready to fight and we say, give us the names and we will at them in the fight. it is a very complex dynamic. what we found in on bar which is critical is having
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presence. we have two sites in anbar province. one between falluja and ramada at the airbase. that is where our fighters are located in and that has given us the ability to figure out who is who, localize sunni fighters and toe them the capacity succeed. in syria, we have special security advisers a up to 300. we recognize -- >> i'm sorry. are those 300 forces training? >> training and advising. is main mission there, after organizing the forces that will push out. >> a follow-up question. training015, the program was initiated. we spent about $45 million in 2015 under the testimony. and mitigated
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disaster. as we sit here today, the numbers have been reported in spent0 range and we somewhere close to 500 million dollars that was authorized i think. can you talk about the training program we have initiated? how many forces are really going back into fight? are they trigger-pullers or enablers or supporters or spotters or support people? tothe effort that was tried kind of organize and train these brigade-like units is something that did not work. there are a lot of fighters on the ground fighting isil every single day. them alley hand taking out and training them in a six-week course, what we're doing now is identifying those groups that are vetted. they get supplies from us and then we take out a couple of their leaders are people they identify to learn how to call in airstrikes. to learn how to do more
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sophisticated things which is a force multiplier for that unit. we have a system that is very well structured and terms of a force we were both on the ground being able to: rescission airstrikes. but it takes training. as set of trying to organize these larger units to maneuver around, we are identifying units actually on the ground that know the actual area, know how to fight. we are giving them the skills to enhance their efforts on the ground. >> i appreciate that but we are not adding additional fighters through that training mechanism in any significant amount, zephyr to say? effort, no. that we're trying to organize and grow the force that will move down. >> i notice the ranking members -- you and me right now until they get back from voting -- >> i like the numbers here.
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i have another question. i would like to talk about the second level of the fight. committee onthe the ground and the air. i see that is a messy fight in syria with all the different dates. about theke to talk hybrid war underway. you related to it earlier. the administrators shouldn't -- the administration was trying to counselor at on the social media and other platforms. how is that working? have we been able to draft outside forces to counter isis? the question overall is, what are we doing today to try to message in isil propaganda and cyberspace in social media? >> great question. gec,ve established the global engagement center. this cannot just be done out of
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washington. we have a global network to go after with online messaging. two years ago when this started, they had free reign on facebook, twitter, youtube. their message was one of,, join us in the caliphate. we have reversed that trend. twitter is one data point. for every single pro-isil twitter handle, there is now six anti-a isil to combat them 24-7 and cyberspace. >> where are they? the united states question my >> all over the place. some are from the region. there they coordinated but best or the non-coordinated, organic counter messaging. working withso those companies. twitter has taken off about 100 25,000 pro-isil sites. and others facebook
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on that site. the internet is in organic thing. >> we just stood up to army brigades of cyber warfare. >> we do. we have centers. to lead the effort. we do some here. we have an organization in the you we. young, smart, and dynamic comic engaged young people. they want to fight isil on the ground. malaysia has been leading it in the u.k. and different parts of the world it is different. in the gulf, it is more religiously inspired focus. in europe, often it is the bring yournd come family, kids eating ice cream, a total lie. in europe they are working to counter that.
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this network of voices on the internet is starting to turn the tide against their message. >> let me rescue mike calling. or is no time for the boat on the floor. even though we are not voting the same way i want to make sure he can get over and cast his vote. since i have the committee right now, let me -- members are coming back, they just went to vote. i started on the floor so we can continue the hearing. let me ask you, we have talked about territorial gains. what happens. ofsyria, there is a lot confidence in that area of being able to block the routes to turkey. what does assad do, what does russia do, it in regards of the territorial gains in syria? what will be their strategy? know, we do not corn eight at all with the russians. we talked to them 2-d conflict
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airspace and we also, when we are running an operation we kind of make sure there is no interference. so far, in most cases, that has been the case. the forces we have worked with that have retaken territory we have found have been able to govern that territory fairly effectively. one problem we have in syria we the not had in iraq is that ability to get a humanitarian assistance, humanitarian supplies in these areas is limited. this gets to the issue with turkey and the syrian kurds and that conflict and the border being closed. in my bench, for example, once it is liberated, we have identified the ngos and resources to get aid of flowing in. we have to work with the border post with turkey to make sure it can get in. i would say so far with not had any interference from the regime or the russians in terms of particularly in the north where
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we have taken territory away from isil. >> as far as the assad loyal courses conflict in with the syrian democratic forces, is that likely to occur? complicated and northwest syria where you have syrian regime forces. you have syrian democratic forces. you have syrian opposition forces. none of them coordinate and many disagree with each other at a local level. this morning i was working on this with colleagues. working to get the lawyers are -- the leaders of those groups together, not of course the syrian forces. locally-based. what is happening in this town, what is happening in that town, to quiet things down between groups. they all share the threat of isil. this is the most complicated thing from a strategic level with them not agreeing with each
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other to say the least and that the local tactical level. we have to work it and all dimensions. in the northwest syria order, is to get the leaders of different groups together with us to talk about how we can better work aidther to get humanitarian flowing and direct forces against isil. >> sen. rubio:. senator rubio: you talked earlier, as isis begins to lose control over territories you will see them increasingly rely on the ability to inspire attacks abroad. deranged individuals who can commit mass of atrocities or whatever and flying, doing it under the banner of isis. this seems to describe what we saw on my home state of florida, in orlando. you're saying as isis continues
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to lose territory and creates this caliphate and at attacks like the one we saw in orlando with individuals with that sort of profile. not just in the u.s. but in other parts of the world. >> senator i can't say it is -- commonplace. isis has always called for attacks in our homeland. territory, as they stopped calling for people to come to syria, now they are saying stay at home. they have been saying this for a couple years. it is a problem. we have to be candid in assessment. candid in the assessment. will be witht that us for years. if 40,000 of these foreign fighters come into syria, fortunately we're killing them and they can't get out at taking away their territory, taking away the notion of a caliphate which is a fundamental drive
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will diminish the appeal. it does not mean they cannot fly another banner. nusra or something else. by isis,ubio: directed inspired by isis, they are no distinction. they are committed to get in the name of isis, people to terrorize. there is no distinction. inspiration is a way of directing these attacks as we saw tragically a few weeks ago. you talk also, even if you were to wipe them out on the battlefield, the ideology than underpants as a radical jihadist ideology remains. this has been touched upon, syria will remain a fertile ground for an isis-like group. it will be there for somebody else to step up and fill that vacuum. as long as assad is in power he is an irritant. it does not mean everyone
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against assad is a radical jihadist but his presence creates enough of an irritant especially among groups like isis, to take advantage of that to further their ideology. in essence, take up arms. isn't that correct? >> the assad regime remains and incubator for the conflict and extremist groups on both sides of the sectarian divide. the sectarian divide in the region supercharges the extremists. we see young shia from afghanistan coming in, young sunnis from all of the world coming into to fight syria. it is something that, to destabilize syria, can spawn attacks outside of syria. getting a handle on the syria where he is a fundamental precondition to mitigating the risk of isil and allows the nusra -- al nusra.
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senator rubio: to that point, the process in place has been described to me as something circling the drain. it is not going well. the press -- it has given russia a cover to do some of things have done like the russian military engagement in syria. not targeted at isis. an open source report last week that they specifically attacked u.s.-based rebels. is it not true much of russia's action has been geared toward non-isis rebels to wipe them out and turn to the world and say you have two choices in syria, isis or a sod. in, 70 russia first came or 80% of their attacks were against moderate opposition troops. after the secession of hostilities, we saw that flip.
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they were focused on palm iraq and other areas. in the last few weeks, this situation, particularly in aleppo, has elevated. particularly in the corridor where we believe the moderate opposition is based. that is a total violation of the secession of hostilities. there are two problems. launching offensives and the regime air force. the regime air force, as far as we can tell is basically a criminal enterprise dropping barrel bombs and attacking civilians under the pretext of attacking new strip. -- nusra. it is a petri dish for extremist organization. i am concerned place on reliance we our alliance with the why pg.
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with our means both relationship to the turks and the stated goal of uniting across northern syria. perhaps isategy that viewed as necessary given the realities on the battlefield but i think in the long-term creates significant complications in the area with a number of groups including the kurds in iraq. >> thank you mr. chairman. fewmcgurk, in the last weeks, both the ambassador and jonathan weiner, the special they testified before committee. tacticalious that against isis weather in iraq or thea will not bring about strategic defeat unless tactical operations are done in ways that not only avoid harming pot
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relations of civilians by protect them from -- civilian populations but protect them from harm. to bring back the armed groups under unified government said represent and protect all the people. you'd testified that they sunnited abuses against civilians fleeing for their lives. it is apparent that adequate advanced operations were not made to receive the transport and provide relief to tens of thousands of people who fled the fighting in illusion. i understand after the fact the iraqi government says they will hold the defenders accountable. sidethat the humanitarian is stepping up relief efforts. i am concerned it might not be enough to convince city people the iraqi government as on their side. my question is, what is the
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iraqi government actions? what are the armed forces doing before and during military operations to identify and mitigate foreseeable risks that shia militia will engage in sectarian attacks on civilians? there are specific things people who work with iraqis are doing or should be doing to ensure that plans include proactive measures to prevent such attacks from happening. thise politicians on panel. that is one thing we are experts on. people will not forget if they were not protected even if there individualk on an in city. >> thank you. of my discussions, especially with the iraqi security leaders, it is important to remember most of the atrocities are committed by
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isil. held populations hostage. committing incredible atrocities against sunnis. wheret retook on province, it massacred hundreds of people from a tribe in the valley. we have to make sure that when security operations come to liberate areas from my soul that these lawless groups of the operation. as we mentioned, in the early days of the falluja we had serious problems. bey turned out to not credible but some do appear to be credible. a special representative to the u.n. testified last week, particularly about the measures now in place to mitigate the risks. one thing that happens when you liberate a territory and civilians come out is to screen toe

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