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tv   Washington Journal Gideon Rose Discusses Trump Admin. Foreign Policy...  CSPAN  August 14, 2017 7:08pm-7:46pm EDT

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great defenses of the war, with battles at gettysburg and vicksburg. news andvery day, with policy issues that impact you. coming up tuesday morning, charlottesville, virginia-based talkshow host joe thomas talks about this weekend's violence. and a correspondent talks about the opioid crisis. then a person from the kaiser family foundation on disparities in health care. be sure to watch "washington journal" live 7:00 a.m. tuesday morning. join the discussion. >> editor of foreign affairs, talking about foreign policy challenges facing the trump administration. magazine joins us now to talk about the trump administration. i wanted to start with your view
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on how the trip administration has handled the north korean problem over the first little over seven months of the trump administration. the first thing to recognize is the north korean issue, as you say, is a problem, not a crisis. the last couple weeks, people have gotten really hysterical, from the president to the press very littleith justification. there is no current immediate crisis, absolutely no reason we are about to be on the verge of nuclear war. this is all cooked up in craziness based on an individual story about incremental advance in the north korean program that probably will not have a huge meaning evenategic if it were true, which it probably will be if it is not now. north korea is basically an evil porcupine. that's a real problem because we don't know what to do with an
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evil porcupine. if it gets too close, it has nice, sharp spines. it is developing his fines. but the basic pattern of american foreign policy has been, evil porcupine, stay in your area, don't bother other people and if you venture out or mess with us, we will mess with you back in much bigger, better, worse ways. that is the standard policy outcome from all of these crises. they threaten, we threaten, and to continue the status quo of north korea persisting in its evil regime and its obstreperous ways while we do not actually invade them. the trump administration is raising a new and real challenge of their capabilities of sharp spines, but there have been new policies, a more hawkish, strategy -- what happened at the yuan was very impressive. the united states got china and others to come on board with
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real, serious sanctions that are a response to north korea ratcheting up their capabilities, but this notion but there is some crisis, there is going to be the prospect of denuclearization of the korean peninsula, which there is not going to be, or war, which there is not going to be either, is mistaken. aboutthere is criticism the trump administration not speaking with one voice. guest: it's demonstrably are. you have the president saying one thing, the secretary of state saying one thing, he acretary of defense saying' third. president advisers like this commentingtian gorka on the secretary of state, but then you have the secretary of defense saying i agree with the secretary of state, but, no, this is a giant problem. if there were serious issues
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about the u.s. doing something new and significant, we would all be more scared them we are. the president seems to want to jennifer crisis for domestic political reasons or some other agenda he has which is not related to the situation on the ground which is not urgent or a crisis situation. the adults in the administration tamp this down and move on, but the president his ownnning it up for agenda and no one knows what that agenda is. .ost: you touched on that you think it ministries no as the right foreign-policy team in place seven months in? have a foreign policy seven months and. the majority of the menstruation is not stepped up. this administration is like the crew -- the majority of this administration is not stepped up. this administration is like the cruise ship that has been
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boarded by a pirate ship. he is saying change course, change course, but he does not a cruise ship. they are stalled while the captain is ranting and raving saying i want to change the course of the ship, but he does not know how. this administration does not have a foreign-policy team in place. they have a national security riser, a secretary of state, a secretary of defense, almost no second-tier or third tier officials, no serious policy or strategy. they really do not know what they are doing. which brings us to the september-october issue of "foreign affairs," trump any allies, the impact this team is having on u.s. allies around the world. guest: so, the really interesting aspect is -- you have to distinguish the
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president, who his own individual, individual singular character like no one has ever seen before. there is the administration, which is the president running things, but the rest of the administration running in the more glacial pace of american administrations normally move i and and then there are the trump voters. those have to be evaluated separately. but the bigger context is domestically and internationally, the trump administration drama is playing out in a const text -- context of restraint. internationally and domestically there are structures governing how american politics and foreign-policy plays out. domestically we have constitutional order set up by james madison and the other founders two centuries ago. not like the does constraints that exist on him domestically. there arenally, institutionalized variance, and is basically the postwar liberal
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international order after world war ii. american policymakers in conjunction with their counterparts in other countries realize, you know what? and 30 or 40 years, we have seen two world wars, a giant global depression, the rise of tierney's in major countries. we've got to stop this. we have to play international politics differently or we will all be dead. the came up with a new system. they said we are the strongest power in the globe, the united states is. and we had a bunch of like-minded players on our team. let's try to run our major foreign policy options as much as possible on a quapaw rooted basis among our teammates. we will be the player manager of a team of allies, the western allies, japan, germany if you rehabilitate them, and essentially this crux of
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american allies has run much of the world. so after the cold war, a lot of new countries in the eastern bloc essentially join -- there are a whole bunch of institutions, nato, the united nations, the wto, a bunch of different institutional structures, but essentially they create a world in which the united states leads a team of like-minded countries to run the world in a stable way. this is the international structure sort of into which the donald trump phenomena has emerged, and basically what they are doing is saying, we don't try this, we don't like the idea of a team. we see no obligation to play with others. we don't recognize the concept of an alliance. so, were not really going to play this game. but american allies have been playing this game for well over half a century. their entire
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identities and national security structures on it. noan, for example, has significant army. it denuclearize and d militarized because we forced it foreignook over its security affairs. we told the japanese, you don't have to worry because we are taking care of your security. trump comes along and says, i don't really care about this. maybe they should get nuclear weapons. south korea should get nuclear weapons. they should deal for themselves. and for japan and other american allies -- japan is an almost paired emetic case because they are so dependent in many respects. the others are like what did you just say? that is literally overturning everything we have done for the last cap century and we have no alternate strategy. so american allies are among the most puzzled and worried of all of the players in the world right now. not american enemies. not bystanders who are just sort
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of puzzled by this and not necessarily americans themselves. american allies say, wait, we thought we were playing international politics as a team game and now the team captain is saying i'm sorry, i don't want to play. it's like if michael jordan told the bowls, i'm not going to show i'm notld the bulls, going to shop to work today. rse with myo play hos friends. on this has extra stress britain and france and canada, and germany. they are saying, oh, my god, what we do in this new era when the leader of our team has decided not to play? no one knows. it has become a scary and difficult host: situation. -- a scary and difficult situation. this is the
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september-october issue of "foreign affairs." let's take some calls. barbara? caller: can you hear me? i am on my cell phone. host: we can. go ahead. caller: please have mr. rose back. his clarity is useful. i am an outside of the box thinker. i have a creative idea. it's just an idea. here it is. i want to create acer clear -- a circular flotilla of warships in and have in the circle seated somewhere -- the experts have to say where, where it's not politically sensitive, to communicate to the north koreans we have got your back. we will stay between you and the united states, united states is
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not interested in attacking you. would take turns. each country would send its warships. they can send a commercial ship, all right? and they will just be in a big circle and they sit there and they come and they go and they are clearly the deterrence like the yellow lines on a two way road. everyone stays in their lane because of they don't, their life depends on it. destructionured works. it works with nuclear. it could work with cyber now. it is working with cyber now. because it's the olli rehn shopping thing. let's kick that crazy idea around. gideon rose? that: i'm not sure determines works with cyber. i agree it works with the nuclear rome. realm. the nuclear
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they had conventional deterrence even before they added the current components. they have been attacking north korea for many many years. reinforcederrent has the conventional deterrent. cyber, however, is a new area we ,re struggling to figure out how to develop deterrence in the cyber rome because we do not know -- in the cyber rome, because we do not know. are trying towe go towards to tyrants and cyber, but right now we don't know. with regards to your question of fromng deterrence attacking north korea, i don't think you need to worry about that. this is aall, difficult situation because it's not just talking about deterring the united states, right? there is a mutual aspect. situations, the nuclear issue is layered on top.
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it is layered on top of a complicated problem. is like china and taiwan. the u.s. basically says we know you guys have a problem. we are not going to allow you to solve it by force. we have one china. resolved, we are not would you talk about that now. if you attacknds, taiwan, we will attack taiwan, but taiwan understands, if you provoke china, we will not defend you. we are try to keep them from being a stripper is even as we are deterring china. this is sort of what china is saying to -- from being a stripper is, even as we are deterring china. this is sort of what china is saying to the u.s.. they are also saying to the u.s., don't start a crisis yourself. why the president is trying to act like we do what a crisis is very strange. what we want to send the messages north korea, we know
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you are an evil porcupine. we are not going to attack you. but if you come out of your little bungalow or den or try to send your quills anywhere near, we will basically wipe you off the face of the planet. and that which is a conditional act of deterrence, stay where you are -- we're not trying to change the status quo, but if you try to change the status quo dramatically by attacking us or our allies, we will beat the crap out of you. i think that message has been sent. and the new sanctions we approved at the human are a great way of ratcheting that up. if i were the trump administration i would be declaring victory and saying, we just got a much tougher set of sanctions on north korea than anyone ever expected. we got the chinese to do more. you hear the chinese saying, does you hear people saying, the chinese are not going to do much. but what the chinese did is much
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further than they have gone in terms of being willing to partner with us and backing down. i'll think there's much of a crisis here. what you want is a good outcome that i believe ultimately will happen. host: several folks waiting to talk to you. guest: sorry, i will keep it short. host: only about 12 minutes left in the segment. frank thomas from tulsa, oklahoma. i can get my hands around this guys message. i can't tell if he is pro-trump's friend policy or not . here is one thing that is for certain. trump.ia at large hates the press and hates trump. in some of the republicans, deep state republicans hate trump and the message is constantly coming and saturating america, the
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diminishr trump, to him, and the rest of the world hears this and they are afraid that the policies in the united states are blurred, and they don't know what to believe or who to trust. office.put trump and god puts thes say basest of men to rule over other men and uses one nation to punish another, and when i came back from vietnam, they began slaughtering babies en masse and putting their body parts down rivers and now they have slaughtered 50 million to 60 million young babies in the womb. what do we expect? frank, we will save the abortion debate. gideon rose? guest: i think it is absolutely
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true that much of the press and the political opposition in the u.s. feels the way the caller said and many callers feel the way he said. the question about where the blame for that lies is something people disagree about. i don't think partners are looking to the american political opposition for their take on trump. they look at trump and they see someone who acts more radically than any president they have ever seen when he goes off and rather than hanging out with his allies that it's basically a very strange club. it's like a new member of the ofb is an ex officio member the ally club and does not act like he is going to the ally ize he has this responsibly. there is the old mind that even paranoids can have enemies. is righthe caller about this resistance. there are people who will not do anything to support anything the administration does. on the other hand, there are reasons and rations and things
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that have not been done properly, so. caller from florida. i agree with what rose's saying, but i think a lot of this is to gin up the fear of americans and people across the world. but i think basically they are trying to gin up the fear so that when they pass a budget they can increase the military spending, which is as high as a lot ofnd i think o it is just political. host: mr. rose? guest: that's quite possible. i no longer feel that i have a really good model of what is going on in donald trump's rather unusual mind. so what particular emotions or intentions are driving his actions are something that are rather opaque to me. one thing that is interesting -- aboutevious caller talked
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there are other countries trying to figure out what is going on. at this point nobody -- the intelligence services, the professionals, people close to the administration -- nobody has any clue what is going to happen next how to interpret what is happening now. says is the caller plausible but i cannot be sure and we left with for the history books to tell us what the real back story of these things will be. host: cuyahoga, go ahead. for taking myyou call. i hope that mr. rose will discuss at some length about the impact of environmental issues bringing everyone to the same page because environmental issues were all lines between countries, people, no matter what the level of education of a
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person's and brings everyone to the same page. if everyone has a vested interest in environmental integrity, conservation, preservation, than everyone has a vested interest and motivation to do things like not use nuclear weapons, not have bad policies and foreign policies and, could you please speak about the possibility of using way to bringrimary peace in the world? i hope that the caller is right. the environmental issue does put a lot of people in the same boat. we all benefit from not destroying the planet. arever, not all people driven the same way in the short term because there are industry in groups that profit from certain types of fossil fuel developed in, economic reasons for doing things a certain way that have negative environmental concerns.
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the real question is on the environment, you have a long-term problem if we have behaviors that are not geared toward environmental protection, but you also have the short-term policies. do youl question is how coordinate all of these actors domestically and internationally to move the world onto a path with energy and environmentalism that actually in a coordinated way will pull back from the brink? it will be a very long process. it may be too late, but probably not, and the paris climate agreement was a minor, but real step toward the type of international collaboration that could eventually deal with the problem.
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the paris agreement was not all that significant in real terms, just like the trump administration withdrawal is not all that significant in real terms. but it is so complex, has so many interests, it requires , and that is going to talk -- require a lot of talk , coordination over decades. a start towards this and now we are going back to a few years ago. we are no longer moving toward the solution and it only means that we will have to go back. host: bring it back to jump in the allies, used -- you use the analogy of the nicest thing the leader of the team of allies. now the united states does not want to play that role. is there another leader stepping up to take on that managerial role? guest: there are two have actual
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things happening. one is lesser players on the -- the united states is binging itself or sulking in its tentlike achilles in the trojan war. other playersed? on the team step up to try to carry the team. one of the interesting andlopments is france germany, britain took itself out with brexit. the united states took itself out with trump. france and germany are saying, for us to it is time step up. you are seeing a possible new resurgence of european identity and willingness to leave the western alliance for change, rather being the robin to america's batman. america's other non-allies are stepping up. playing itself as the
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one really committed to an open global economy and more trade, things like that as the u.s. becomes more protectionist. the chinese are going, hate, we we are in favor of global development. we will be the avatar of that. it is not really true, but they in that direction. the russians are lapping up their sleeve because they have managed to disrupt our politics and get away scott free. host: the life democrats, go ahead. is goodyes, my comment morning, america. i used to subscribe to this magazine for many, many years. but i stopped because i saw over wrong,eir analyses were something wrong. i saw no effort to go back and correct the information they put out previously. guest: that is vertically
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possible and quite probably accurate because very few of us are soothsayers. when a magazine like "foreign affairs" does or tries to do, because i'm sure we do not always succeed, but our goal is to take the kind of official whote of serious people deal with foreign policy, international affairs, public policy more generally have with each other about the pros and cons of different courses of action, the relative merits of different actions for public expert viewsresent and accessible language so the general public can actually understand what is going on and make their own decisions. i'm sure a lot of the articles we publish are not accurate in their predictions. but that's not our chief goal. what our chief goal is to provide here and abroad the general public with information and analysis they need to come their own conclusions on
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-- you policy by saying are supposed to look at public , if i want this rather than that, i've got to make the right policy choices. it's not about emotion, not about identity, not about psychology. at the end of the day the most e istical consequenc government does practical things and that helps or hurts people. been waiting in nashville, north carolina, line for independents. go ahead. calle
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at you point a finger others, there are three fingers pointing back at you. -- : peter aller: one has to consider the korean war in which millions and one-third of north korea was destroyed, the country was flattened. is not surprising they would have a certain attitude toward the united states. threatens fire and fury to destroy a whole country because of one leader, me, that is the ultimate evil. thank you very much. go ahead.on rose, guest: that is a good comment, i say that all porcupines are evil, it happens
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domestic policy, they kill their own people, starved and subjected, any face of the planet hat deserves the epiit evil, ronald reagan called soviet communist empire or china, a place that destroyed of people, the north korean regime is evil. that doesn't mean we should go it.ack as donald trump said about islamist, as he will not say about domestic nazi, a spade a spade is the right thing to do, that doesn't mean you go to war evil.t everything we lived with the soviet union decades.ny, many e lived with china until their system has started to evolve. we have live communist north many, many decades and there is no solution to the problem now.
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end, we don'twill ant to hasten that or give the porcupine a reason to sheds its quills. analysis. with the host: council bluff, iowa, line go ahead.icans, caller: yes, good morning. to know what the -- one caller mentioned the hate trump group. are a ondering if you member of that group, you are swamp?ered the you show your true colors when you call doctors a clown and there to respond to that. i am just wondering, are you that swamp and 2020, hope everybody remembers the you're a oup, maybe member of it. host: mr. rose, tell us about your background. perfectly legitimate question, everybody has tribal
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colors. politics are, you centerist democrat. -- i suppose new emocrat type is my political colorrization. that is irrelevant, i'm not a member of any formal never trump anti-trump group. i would say that i'm part of the way that cause the term has actually been used, it existing y refers to establish nment government and people who know things about how politics work. the reason i called gorka a that is what he is, it doesn't help have discussion confused by people who don't know what they are talking bout, have no power and authority and are being unhelpful. his why do you doubt intelligence on this and his
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credentials? he has no , credentials, he's never had any serious position anywhere, never had any serious academic background, never published anything. a political spokesman for the administration. he is not an actual policy and nobody cares about him inside the government. make comments rather than have a role in foreign policy. it is not -- nobody in foreign olicy circle takes him seriously. when you realize there is a task of governing he has to accomplish, those types get eeded out and you end up with people who know what to do. the interesting question in trump foreign policy is not what date, but what to they will do going forward. because clearly what they have
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worked, the asn't question is what is their next act and we don't know yet. gideon rose, "foreign af >> this week at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span -- tonight, national security advisers who served the last two presidents, including stephen hadley -- mr. hadley: i am a little worried. putin has decided americans are anti-russian. his ambassador said there is no constituency for u.s.-russian relations in the united states, and he is saying if i am an enemy, i will show you what it is like to have an enemy in russia. >> tuesday, the future of the internet. >> we are talking about how certain platforms provide people
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with information that reaffirms what they already think. but it is not like facebook said, you are a conservative, i will show you conservative content. he said, i will show you things from people you know and content from the pages you like, and when you start clicking on these things, i will figure out whose content you seem to like and will show you more of that. it's facebook had not done that, they would not have grown to the scale which they have grown today. wednesday, the changing role of cities. period,is a transition and i think cities will play a major role. change way cities can representative democracies, cities as a great machine to change what is going on. >> thursday, a look at the
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opioid epidemic, from mike dewine, who is suing several drug companies. >> what is different about this drug problem we have is how pervasive it is. it is absolutely everywhere. it is in our smallest communities. it is in our cities. is in our most affluent communities. >> you said we are a constitutional democracy. that means the judiciary has an important role to play in policing the boundaries of the other branches. that can make the judiciary and people, when of they say to a governor or president or congress, no, you cannot do that, because it is just not within your constitutional powers. >> watch this week at 8:00 p.m.
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eastern on c-span,, and listening by using the free c-span radio app. >> tonight -- hackckers do not computers. hackers hack humans. >> talking cyber security and cyber threats. a it is not easy to patch large organization and patching it month after month. today we have to really think of proactive defense. we cannot keep reacting to attacks anymore. we have to turn the concept around. we set booby-traps. we have to create customized environments. we have to engage in threat hunting. >> watch tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span2.
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c-span, where history unfolds daily. 1970 nine, c-span was created as a public service by america's cable television companies and is brought to you today by your cable or satellite provider. earlier today, vice president pence met with families who had recently fled venezuela. he also took questions on tensions with north korea and russia before departing for argentina. this is 10 minutes.


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