tv U.S. House of Representatives Interstate Concealed Carry Bill Debate CSPAN December 6, 2017 8:45pm-10:07pm EST
in all of this, the aforementioned donald john trump has, by his statements, brought the high office of president of the united states in contempt, ridicule, disgrace, and disrepute, has sown discord among the people of the united states, has demonstrated that he is unfit to be president, and has debe trayed his trust as president of the united states to the manifest injury of the people of the united states. and has committed a high misdemeanor in office. therefore donald john trump, by causing such harm to society -- to the society of the united states, is unfit to be president, warrants impeachment, trial, and removal from office. i yield back.
announcer: this bill would make permits viable. h.r. 38, the concealed carry reciprocity act of 2017. the speaker pro tempore: the ouse will be in order. the gentleman may resume. mr. goodlatte: mr. speaker, throughout my career in elected office, i believed in and adhered to two fundamental principles regarding firearms policy. first, the right guaranteed to law-abiding americans by the second amendment must be
aggressively protected and preserved. second, the laws we have on the books need to be enforced to the fullest extent possible. the bipartisan bill before us today does both. h.r. 38 ensures that law-abiding citizens' second amendment right does not end when they cross state lines. mr. speaker, the house is not in order. the speaker pro tempore: the house will be in order. please take all conversations to the cloakrooms or off the floor. the gentleman from virginia. mr. goodlatte: the bill allows law-abiding gun owners with valid state issued concealed carry firearm permits to -- or those who live in so-called constitutional carry states, to carry a concealed firearm in any other state that also allows conceal carey. we know citizens who carry a concealed firearm are not only better prepared to act in their own self-defense but also in
the defense of others. take, for instance, an incident that occurred just last november on a highway in florida. lee county sheriff's deputy dean bards had just concluded a high-speed chase just off interstate 75. as deputy bards approached to apprehend the suspect, the suspect, edward struther, violently attacked the deputy. a witness on the scene told reporters that the attacker just started punching him and hitting and hitting. i was afraid for the police officer. i thought he was going to kill him. fortunately, for deputy bards, aschad russell, a concealed carry permit holder, saw this. he approached the altercation. he told struther he would shoot him if he did not stop beating the deputy. the state attorney's office said struther ignored russell's commands to stop beating the deputy so he fired him three times, hitting and fatally
wounding the assailant. he is harolded a hero. this bill also contains the fix nics act of 2017. this is a bipartisan and bicameral measure. the fix nics act takes steps to ensure that state and federal agencies enter all relevant records into the f.b.i.'s national instant criminal background system. this bill will help ensure people who are legally prohibited from having guns, like those with violent felony convictions, do not obtain them. the shooting at virginia tech and the church shootings in charleston, south carolina, and sutherland springs, texas, are tragic reminders of what can happen when all relevant records are not entered into the system. our nics system is only as good as the information within it. this important piece of legislation will ensure that more of the information already required to be uploaded to nics under current law is actually
placed in the nics system. taken together, the concealed carry reciprocity act and the fix nics act preserve and protect the right guaranteed to us by the second amendment and ensure that those prohibited by existing law from receiving a firearm are prevented from doing so. i urge my colleagues to join me in supporting this legislation. i want to thank the lead sponsor, mr. hudson of north carolina, for his hard work on this bill, and i would also like to thank the authors of the fix nics provisions, mr. culberson and mr. cuellar, for their important contributions to the legislation before us today. and i reserve the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from virginia reserves. the gentleman from new york is recognized. : thank you, mr. speaker. mr. speaker, i yield myself such time as i may consume.
thank you, mr. speaker. i rise in strong opposition to the concealed carry reciprocity act. this bill would not protect us from gun violence but would make us far less safe. under current law, each state makes its own determination about who may carry a concealed firearm in public, including deciding which other states concealed carry permits to recognize. this bill would eviscerate the core public safety determination that each states makes concerned kerning the concealed carrying of guns in public based on the unique circumstances of each state and the desires by its citizens. 31 states and d.c. require gun safety training to carry concealed guns in public. 21 of those states require live fire training. they prohibit people with misdemeanor prohibit.
and prohibit stalkers from carrying concealed guns. 34 states and d.c. prohibit those under 21 years of age from carrying concealed guns. many states prohibit gun possession and conceal carry by abusive dating partners, exceeding federal protections against abusive spouses. all of these states would have their carefully considered laws overridden by this bill. the obvious solution to the varying state laws is to continue to do what it's currently done by many states which is to choose which other state permits they will recognize. some states, including my state of new york, have chosen not to recognize permits issued by any other state. most states, however, have chosen to recognize permits from at least some other states. basing the choice on the strength and standards employed by the other states. we should not disregard these determinations which is what this bill would do. instead, this bill would say that every state must under the concealed carry permit of every
ther state. and what this bill would do in effect is to say that if new york or illinois have strict requirements for concealed carry and someone comes in from a state that doesn't, they have to let that person have concealed carry in their state. in effect, it uses the power of the federal government to import the laws of one state and make them enforceable in the other state. in addition, i'm deeply disappointed that the version of this bill before us today includes the bipartisan fix nics act, a measure that should be enacted as a stand-alone bill without delay and that was supported by the judiciary committee. that bill would address shortcomings with the national criminal background system. as the recent mass chooting at the church in texas illustrates, we must ensure all relevant
records are submitted to the data bases. no one should pass a background check that he or she should have iled was not included in the system. there is broad bipartisan support for the fix nics bill here in the house ap the senate. that proposal which would actually save lives should not be intelligentered to the reciprocity provisions of this bill which would serve to endanger our citizens. he answer is not having people carrying concealed permits. on some other countries, this figure barely exceeds 100. in 2011, the united kingdom had 146 deaths, denmark, 71. japan, just 30, the united states over 30,000. the study in the american journal of medicine compared to
22 countries, the gun murder rate in the united states is 25 times higher. the -- the lack of such easy availability of guns. our country is awash in guns and we have the shameful death toll toe show for it. we need to adopt meaningful legislation that strengthens our gun laws and we must not undermine the efforts of states to defend their citizens against these arms. the dangers posed by the concealed carry reciprocity of is bill greatly outweigh the benefits. i oppose this bill and urge my colleagues to reject it. i reserve. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from virginia is recognized. mr. goodlatte: i yield four minutes to the lead sponsor of the legislation, the gentleman hudson.th carolina, mr.
the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized. mr. hudson: let me tell you a story, a story about an african-american single mother, two kids living in south philly, after twice being the victim of muggings, she decided to go out and purchase a legal firearm to protect herself and gets trained and applies for a concealed carry permit. sometime thereafter, she crossed the state line into new jersey and in a routine traffic stop did what she was trained, handed her driver's license and concealed carry permit and let him know she had a pistol in her purse. the state of new jersey doesn't recognize the concealed carry permits of their neighbor in pennsylvania. so this poor single mother, who never had a brush with the law spent almost 50 days in jail and was looking at 10 years in prison.
are you serious? we have to make sure that never happens again. the other side today is going to argue that we are violating states' rights but the full faith and credit clause of the constitution says every state should give full faith and credit of documents of every other state and the congress has the responsibility to determine how those documents are recognized. a driver's license is recognized. if i get married in north carolina and move to arizona, i'm not a single marn. that's why divorce decrees are recognized. the concealed carry permit should be recognized the same way. but this is not trampling states' rights because states can determine and set any limits about how weapons are carried in their municipalities or their states. for example, if you visit the state of new york, they have a
limit on the size of the magazine on a pistol. you have to follow that law. if they want to set restrictions about places where you can't carry, even with this legislation, that law would have to be followed. the states retain this right just like a driver's license. the other side is going to stand up and claim all kinds of doom day's scenarios and increase crime and increase the number of weapons and turn cities into the wild west. we are being lectured from people from big cities that have some of the worst crime in the nation and worried about people coming from other places where we don't have crime. but the truth is over half the states already recognize the permits of every other states. 19 states already do this. states and municipalities as i mentioned, retain the right to restrict where guns are carried
even under this legislation. and if you look at the empirical evidence places where you have concealed carry and constitutional carry, when you instituted this right, violent crime went down. gun crime went down and seen less crime, not more crime. there's actually a study done in florida and texas and showed off-duty police officers commit crimes more than concealed permit holders. police officers don't commit crimes very often. these are not the people we are worried about. these are not the vial ent criminals that we are worried about in our cities. this is a commonsense measure that upholds our constitutional right and makes sure that a law-abiding citizen doesn't become a criminal simply because they cross that line. for every american who exercises their second amendment right,
this is your day. for 15 million concealed carry permit holders out there, today is your day and the single mothers out there who want to protect themselves and their families, today is your day. i thank the chairman for his leadership on this. i ask my colleagues to join me in voting for this commonsense legislation. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields back the balance of his time. the gentleman from virginia. mr. goodlatte: i reserve. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from new york. mr. nadler: i yield three minutes to the distinguished gentlelady from texas, the ranking member of the crime subcommittee, ms. jackson lee. the speaker pro tempore: the entlelady is recognized. ms. jackson lee: let me thank the ranking member for yielding.
and let me say that the problems that my good friend just mentioned on the floor can be solved by real sensible gun safety legislation. unfortunately h.r. 38 is not that. and it is not that because it has ignored the pleas of law enforcement and it has ignored the rational addition of amendments that would save lives. h.r. 38 is dangerous and reckless and secretly packaged a fix to gun violence by instead and laced with lethal elements of catastrophic proportion. in the midnight hour it deals with the background checks with the concealed carry reciprocity. that is patently unfair, mr. speaker. then it would not allow reasonable amendment exposing
victims of domestic violence and expose them to victims of domestic violence, to stalkers and those who have been involved in domestic violence, to gun violence or death, will entice those who perpetrate hate crimes or add to the alarming death rate. where we could have fixed the nics act, it does not do that. 556 women have be murdered alone by intimate partners. my amendment would have been made it safer. didn't want to have it. other 14 sensible amendments were blocked. 4.9 million have been threatened by abusers. hate kimes, those worshippers in charleston, south carolina were killed by a person who came there with hate. my amendment dealing with not allowing someone convicted of a hate crime, even though they say
that it is the federal law, why not have it in this underlying bill where so many people are killed. let me give you an example, under the brady campaign, 114994 americans are killed by guns including those at las vegas and pull -- pulse nightclub and those who mentioned in charles lotville and sandy hook. 17,000 children are gunned down by guns. 12 states have an open carry law with no rules. that means if you are in washington where heads of state and other dignitaries come and someone can come on the street. do we even listen to police officers? the major chiefs association has indicated that they are opposed to h.r. 38 because it will require those making legitimate legal stops as law enforcement officers seeking to come home to their families, being subjected to individuals whose documents
they may not know are credible or whether they are fraudulent or whether these individuals legitimately should have a gun. i can't understand why this is not understood. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlelady's time has expired. ms. jackson lee: it is usually understood we respect the contusion nationality of states. it is a bad bill and ignores sovereignty and should vote it down because people are murdered by guns without safety regulations. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from virginia. mr. goodlatte: i yield myself 15 seconds and will submit for the record an article good samaritan kills active shooter in sports bar in which a shooter with two guns and two knives entered a sports bar and was shot by an individual that the police labeled a good samaritan who happened to be eating at the restaurant and he was a
concealed carry permit holder and told his wife to get down on the ground and shot the assailant. it will be inserted into the record. mr. goodlatte: it's my pleasure to yield to the chairman of the crime subcommittee of the house judiciary committee, mr. sensenbrenner, three minutes. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized. mr. sensenbrenner: i thank the gentleman for yielding. i'm pleased h.r. 38 as amended includes the fix nics act. i have long supported nics. nics is about saving lives and protecting people from harm by preventing guns from falling into the wrong hands. it does this without interfering in the timely transfer of firearms to eligible gun buyers. i was the original co-sponsor of the brady handgun violence prevention act of 1993 and worked diligently for its passage. i strongly supported this bill because it makes sense to prevent convicted felons and
individuals judged to be menlt tallly ill of obtaining guns. i insisted on the inclusion of a nics program. under this system, fire arms' dealers uses the nics system to cross reference with a known convicted felons, drug users, illegal aliens and those convicted of domestic violence. as i have indicate -- stated many times, the nics system is only as good as the records put into it and people who would not get a gun and buy guns. after the recent shooting in sutherland springs, texas, us air force disclosed that it failed to report the man's history of domestic violence to the data base, which should have prevented him from purchasing a firearm in the first place. this legislation will provide a much needed push to speed implementation in conducting bab
ground checks. at the federal level and would require cooperation in providing relevant records to the attorney general for inclusion into the nics. it holds federal agencies accountable if they fail to upload relevant records to the background system. by prohibiting bonus pay for political pay. at the state level it will incentive advise them to make sure reporting is up to date by giving grants to states which comply. let me be clear, this bill is not about expanding background checks. this is about ensuring that the existing law is working. there are strong bipartisan support for improving what has become the systemic problem of missing information in the data base. accurate reporting is essential to ensuring that the system works as intended and i urge my
colleagues to support this legislation and yield back the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields back the balance of his time. the gentleman from virginia reserves. the gentleman from new york. mr. nadler: before i recognize the gentlelady from connecticut, i recognize the gentlelady from texas for a unanimous consent request. ms. jackson lee: i ms. jackson lee: mr. speaker, i'd like to put in the record, ask unanimous consent, good guys can guns can be dangerous too. don't gut concealed carry law, why is congress about to vote to loosen gun laws again by mark kelly. major cities chiefs association opposing h.r. 38, ask unanimous consent, and ask unanimous consent to put in the record the chief of police from the city of houston, unanimous consent, and finally, i ask to put in the record the national -- the national domestic violence report. i ask unanimous consent to put those into the record. the speaker pro tempore: the
gentlelady's requests are granted, without objection. the gentleman from new york. mr. nadler: i yield two minutes to the gentlelady from connecticut, ms. esty. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlelady has two minutes. ms. esty: thank you, mr. speaker. i rise in strong opposition to the so-called concealed carry reciprocity act. it is outrageous that today of all day, one week before the five-year anniversary of the horrific murder of 20 schoolchildren in my district of newtown, six educators, two months after the slaughter of 50 americans watching a concert, that we are about to act on a bill to put more guns in the hands of more dangerous people. rather than helping raise the standards, nationally for gun safety this bill would override and lower most states' concealed carry laws, making it easier for domestic violence abusers,
stalkers, and violent criminals to carry across state lines loaded, hidden guns. this bill should be called the act to carry any gun, anywhere, any time, by anyone. the concealed carry reciprocity bill is an outrage and insult to the families in newtown and to the hundreds of families who are lost -- who have lost loved ones to violence who are fwathered here today at the capitol for the fifth annual vigil to end gun violence. in the five years since sandy hook, this is the very first bill we have been allowed to vote on in this chamber and it is a reckless giveaway to the moneyed gun interests. mr. speaker, since 2012, gun violence has killed over 170,000 americans. it's time for this house to truly honor the victims of gun violence and their families with action. instead of caving in to gun lobby yet again. i urge all my colleagues to
oppose this dangerous bill. thank you, and i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlelady yields back. the gentleman from new york reserves. the gentleman from virginia. mr. goodlatte: it is my pleasure to yield two minutes to the gentleman from texas, mr. poe a member of the judiciary committee. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman has two minutes. mr. poe: mr. speaker, history is a great educator. we remember american history, the war of independence started when the british tried to take away the firearms of americans. lexington and concord, that revolution was successful because americans were able to be armed. the texas war of independence started when the mexican government tried to take away the firearms of texans. that started at gonzalez, texas, and it was successful and we became an independent country. the second amendment is a constitutional right that americans have. my friends on the other side seem to want -- they don't like the second amendment. they wish it wasn't there.
they do everything in their power to restrict the privilege and the right that we have under the second amendment and we get it because of our history. to protect us from government and also for self-defense. my friends talk about gun violence, you got to remember, gun violence happens in many times where people are disarmed and it usually takes a gun to stop that gun, just like it did at the church in texas. another situation. if i were to drive my jeep to california and i get stopped by the california highway patrol, which maybe would occur, i would show them my texas driver's license and they would let me drive even though the laws in california are different on driver's licenses. second, my registration of my jeep in texas would pass in california even though if i had to get it done in california, it probably wouldn't pass. but they recognize that because we have laws that recognize that.
my marriage license would be acceptable as well. the right to bear arms, the right to have a concealed carry weapon, is based on the second amendment of the constitution. this law, all it does is allow us to exercise that right in every state. and that's just the way it is. i'll yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from texas reyields back. the gentleman from virginia reserves. the gentleman from new york. mr. nadler: mr. speaker, i now yield three minutes to the distinguished democratic whip, mr. hoyer. the speaker pro tempore: the democratic whip is recognized for three minutes. mr. hiier: i want to thank mr. nadler -- mr. hoyer: i want to thank mr. nadler for yielding. mr. speaker, that's just the way it is. since the start of 2017 more than 14,340 people have been
killed by gun violence in the united states. more than any other country on earth. that's just the way it is. more than 29,150 have been wounded. more than 680 of those have been children. in october, 58 people were killed and 515 wounded in las vegas. in the worst mass shooting in our nation's history. but we don't have a bill on the floor to prevent the creation of machine guns, which are illegal, by bump stocks. just five weeks later a gunman entered a church in southerland springs, texas, and killed 26 worshipers, wound 20g. the majority's response, bring to the floor a bill that makes america less safe. more replete with people carrying and concealing weapons.
in our communities. this bill says if you want to carry a concealed weapon in a state that doesn't allow it, constitutionally, no problem. get your concealed carry license in another state that does. in other words, every state, no matter their own judgment, talking about states' rights, no matter their own judgment, must be subjected to the policies of the least protective state in the nation. instead of addressing the very serious problem of rampant gun violence in a constructive way, the republican majority is bringing to the floor a bill hide kes it easier to dangerous weapons. newtown. aurora. orlando. las vegas. southerland springs. and community after community
after community. what will it take for this congress to act? what will it take to face this challenge instead of ignoring it no how many more will not live to see the new year or begin it with debilitating injuries they'll carry for the rest of their lives? how many times will we have a moment of silence and a year of no action. defeat this bill. its rational provision of nics, making sure people report, does not justify the danger it expands. support the rights of states to protect their residents from hidden firearms. o not ignore the crisis that confronts our country. have a moment of action a moment
of legislate manager safety, not less. not simply a few seconds of silence to lament the loss of life, whether it be in las vegas, orlando, or in our own communities. defeat this bill. come back and do some positive, constructive work that makes merica safe again. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from new york reserves. the gentleman from virginia. mr. goodlatte: i yield myself 15 seconds to submit to the record a letter signed by 23 of those states attorneys general general who say in part in this letter, strong evidence indicates that concealed carry permit holders actually deter and reduce crime. this is taking action by passing this legislation. and now it is -- i will not
yield to the gentleman. we have limited time. mr. hoyer: the maryland attorney general is not one of those signatories. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman's request will be put into the record. the gentleman from virginia. mr. goodlatte: i thank the speaker. it is my pleasure to yield to the gentlewoman from alabama, ms. robey, two minutes. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlelady has two minutes. mrs. roby: i rise in support of h.r. 38, the concealed carries prerest prossity act of 2017. our founders laid out certain rights in our constitution. not to empower the government but to empower the people. certainly among those the most fundamental of those rights we have as americans is to keep and bear arms. h.r. 38, concealed carry reciprocity act of 2017, simply ensures all law-abiding citizen whs meet the requirements to obtain concealed carry permits in their home state can exercise the right to protect themselves
in any state provided that they obey the local conceal carry laws. mr. speaker, some opponents of this bill claim that we are somehow making it easier for dangerous, unqualified individuals to obtain and carry guns. that is absolutely not true. if a citizen is currently prohibited from purchasing or possessing a firearm, this bill does nothing to change that. on the other hand, mr. speaker, others will tell you that we are making it harder for law-abiding americans to exercise their second amendment rights. that's not true either. h.r. 38 does nothing to infringe upon anyone's right to keep and bear arms. the bill simply ensures that our current national instant criminal background check system, or nics, is enforced and working properly. those of us who respect the second amendment and dedicate our careers to defending it will always fight to protect this fundamental right from those who
would erode it. but mr. speaker, we also have a responsibility to uphold and enforce our current laws to ensure dangerous people can't obtain weapons. in fact, it is precisely because we want to preserve our second amendment rights that we must ensure our criminal background checks system works properly. i urge my colleagues to support this bill in order to ensure that those who obtain a concealed carry permit in one state are able to enjoy the freedom in any state to make sure -- and to make sure our current background check system is working the way it is intended to work. thank you, i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlelady yields back. the gentleman from virginia reserves. the gentleman from new york. mr. nadler: i yield one minute to the gentleman from tennessee, mr. cohen. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from tennessee, one minute. mr. cohen: thank you, sir. firstly, the nra put a bulletin out to urge people to vote for this. they said we must ensure that
anti-gun jurisdictions do in the harass travelers. that's the purpose of this bill from the n.r.a., that non-- anti-gun jurisdictions, state legislatures that have restrictive gun law, cannot harass travelers, cannot see that their state has the same laws that their citizens have from people out of state. when my friends on the other side talk about being concerned about the second amendment and dedicating their lives to it and seeing that irresponsible people don't get gun well, tried to bring a no fly new york buy law they weren't for it. they talked about due process. they brought a due process bill to the floor for people on the no fly list? no. social security, people on social security who can't manage their own affair, they passed a law that says they should get guns when they couldn't before. that's not in keeping with what they're saying. this bill violates states' rights, puts guns in hands of people that states don't want to have it in. seven states don't allow people under 21 unless they're in the military to have a gun permit this federal law would override
those seven states. this is a bad law. it's the n.r.a.'s law. we should have had amendments considered in committee. but we didn't because the n.r.a. didn't want them. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields, the gentleman from new york reserve the gentleman from virginia. mr. goodlatte: at this time it's my pleasure to yield one and a half minutes to the gentleman from texas, mr. farenthold, a member of the judiciary committee. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from texas, one and a half minutes. mr. farenthold: i'm here to support the concealed carry reciprocity act which will allow a person who is licensed in one state to carry their firearm, to carry it in other states. it works like your driver's license. my texas driver's license lets me drive in virginia, lets me drive in florida, lets me drive in california and i'll tell you, when i was child growing up in texas, my family taught me the importance of marksmanship, gun safety and the second amendment. i've long said that when it comes to reducing violence, it's the individual, not the weapon, we need to be focused on this
bill helps ensure americans' right to carry is not enfringed on when crossing state lines, enhans public safety. as the chairman stated earlier on here today a peer-reviewed study shows states with more restrictive conceal carry laws had higher gun-related murder rates. that's why we need an armed citizenry to oprotect ourselves and each other. as we saw in the terrible texas church shooting in southerland springs recently, the death toll could have been much higher had not an armed citizen been there to condition front the gunman. those claims are far from true. gun laws from accessing guns are already there in their home states and going to remain undisturbed. i'm a strong supporter of the second amendment and the constitution as i expect most of you all are and believe gun control is hitting what you aim
at and nothing else. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields back the balance of his time. the gentleman from new york. mr. nadler: mr. speaker, i now yield to the gentleman from florida, mr. deutch. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from florida has two minutes. mr. deutch: mr. speaker, it's been almost five years to the 26 and 27-year-old babies were slaughtered in babies. it has been a year and a half since 49 people were killed in my home state of florida, 58 more being injured. in october, people were killed in las vegas and in november, 26 people were killed and 20 injured as they worshipped in sutherland springs, texas.
the response to all of this tragedy is a bill to make it easier for people to carry concealed weapons in every corner of this country. i don't know whose idea, other than the gun corporations, i don't know whose idea it was that this will be the way that we honor the memories of those who have been killed. instead of commonsense gun safety legislation, that the overwhelming majority of people in this country support, we get a bill to make it possible to carry a concealed weapon in every state in every corner of this country. and when my friends say it doesn't override any laws, that is absolutely untrue. in states that have state laws that govern where you can and can't carry a gun, this bill overrides that and says you can bring any gun into the state, whatever your regulations are about what you can carry.
this is a bill that doesn't make us safer. it doesn't make us stronger, but make no mistake, it makes the bottom line the process of the gun makers of this country a little bit healthier. and as we enter the christmas season and we think about the 26 and 27-year-old kids whose lives were taken away five years ago today and parents suffer every day with that loss and aren't there to receive christmas presents, i ask my friends why is it we respond by giving this to the n.r.a. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from virginia. mr. goodlatte: i submit for the record two articles, one from tennessee and one from florida in which concealed carry permit holders stop dead in their
tracks people who are going to commit murder. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman's request is granted. mr. goodlatte: i yield 1 1/2 minutes to the the gentleman from florida, mr. gaetz, a member of the judiciary committee. mr. gaetz: i don't know why democrats are afraid to allow people to have exercise their constitutional rights. in my state we have 1.7 concealed carry permit holders. they are less likely to commit crimes. if they have their way, we would take the bad acts who break the law and deprive that as an excuse to deprive law-abiding citizens. i rise in support of the constitution and correct a common mistake. the rights that are enumerated in the constitution are not
granted to the american people but god-given rights. for too long the government has failed to protect the constitution and has stripped law-abiding citizens of their freedom. states recognize driver's licenses but nowhere are they mentioned in the constitution. carry permits from other states even though the constitution states that the right of people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. mr. hudson's good bill restores constitutional liberty and i join in sponsoring this legislation and stand with the constitution and against those who wish to dismantle it. i urge my colleagues to uphold to defend.ey swore and i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from new york.
mr. nadler: i yield to the gentleman from rhode island for a unanimous consent request. mr. cicilline: my friends on the other side of the aisle that if someone has a concealed weapon america will be safer. two studies rebut that. 2017 study found in states that dopted the most permissive carry laws, the crime rate was higher. and 2017 study by boston university found that states had 10.6% higher handgun murder rate. i ask both of those studies that disprove the claim that america is safer if they carry a hidden firearm -- the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from new york. mr. nadler: i yield to the chairman of the democratic caucus, mr. crowley.
mr. crowley: i must have missed something in my religious 11 ning, were there commandments by god? i know there are 10. i missed that one, that god-given right? was it a god-given right to take that right and execute 58 people at a concert? was that a god-given right? mr. speaker, the american people have spoken. they want congress to keep their families safe by passing commonsense gun safety legislation, legislation that will keep guns out of the hands of criminals. protecting those who want to want to cause terror in our churches, in our schools, at concerts and our communities from getting those firearms. the bill before us does the
exact opposite. it would force states like new york to weaken their own gun safety laws and allow concealed carry. and puts families at risk and for what? to appease the n.r.a.? that's shameful. in the 6 days since the las vegas massacre, congress has done nothing, absolutely nothing to address the clear loopholes in our laws that allow a man to kill so many. 66 days since the republicans denounced the bump stocks and only to turn around and do this bill. we have seen one horrific mass shooting, republicans are putting a bill that would put each and every american in harm's way. this comes before the 5th anniversary of the tragic shooting at sandy hook and put us in further danger of another las vegas, another orlando and
sandy hook. the american people are sick and tired of this. they want this congress to protect them, not enable criminals. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman's time has expired. the gentleman from new york reserves. the gentleman from virginia. mr. goodlatte: may i ask how much time is remaining on each side? the eaker pro tempore: gentleman from virginia has 11 3/4 minutes and the gentleman from new york has 13 minutes. the persons in the gallery are guests of the house and any approval or disapproval of proceedings is in violation of the rules of the house. the gentleman from virginia. mr. goodlatte: i yield two minutes to the gentleman from florida, mr. ruther forward, a member of the judiciary committee. mr. rutherford: mr. speaker, in
my 41 years of law enforcement, 12 years as a sheriff of duval county, florida, i have seen many, many times where good law-abiding citizens use legal firearms to stop dangerous people from harming them, their loved ones and even their neighbors. mr. speaker, as a law enforcement professional, i want good people carrying firearms. the fraternal order of police who represent thousands of officers all across the united states of america supports good people carrying firearms. you know why? because we know as law enforcement officers, we understand that our agencies, our priority response time target is seven minutes and in a life and death situation, we target getting there in seven minutes. that's in a well policed
community. so i want to put republicans, democrats everyone on notice that that for seven minutes, you better be prepared to protect yourself. so if an active shooter in a mall, in a school, in a church like we just saw in sutherland springs, texas is killing five people per minute, that's an average of 35 dead unarmed citizens before the police can even arrive at the scene. believe me, we want good law-abiding citizens who are authorized to carry firearms to have the ability to intervene in a violent situation before law enforcement can even arrive at the scene. we need the concealed carry reciprocity act to ensure these citizens to retain their constitutional right to bear
arms and legally cross state lines and hopefully be able to stop a violent incident. mr. speaker, none of our other constitutional rights stop at the state line and our second amendment rights should not stop at that right either. i encourage my colleagues to support h.r. 38 and save lives. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields back the balance of his time. the gentleman from virginia reserves. the gentleman from new york. mr. nadler: i now yield two minutes to the the gentleman from rhode island, mr. cicilline. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized. mr. cicilline: we just heard some of our other colleagues speak about the god-given right to carry a concealed loaded firearm. what about the god given to live and be free from gun violence? we have seen the two deadliest shootings in american history, 20 children slaughtered and the
list goes on and on. our republican colleagues will do nothing about it. they won't pass universal background, no fly, no buy and prevent bump stocks and what is their answer? everyone in america can carry a concealed loaded firearm, even people who are violent criminals, stalkers, domestic abusers can carry concealed firearms. make no mistake about it, this legislation allows someone to go online and you don't have to have training, you can be a criminal and don't have -- go online and get a permit in that state. you only have to go there and travel america with a loaded concealed firearm and jofrle the people of that state to impose responsible limitation on it. and endanger police officers who could be sued to have the audacity to detain them.
they have a cause of action against the police officer and attorneys' fees, unprecedented. this is the response to a country that is pleading for responsible gun safety legislation that is living with the carnage of gun violence and asking this congress do something about it, protect us from this violence and our republican colleagues muster up the courage to pay whomage to the n.r.a. to make it easier to sell guns so people can carry concealed loaded firearms all across this country. shame on you. shame on you. you have a responsibility to work with us to protect our constituents from gun violence, to enact gun safety legislation that will reduce the incidents of gun violence. the claim that it makes it safer is refuted by the empirical evidence. you know it is. shame on the republic cangs. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman should be reminded to direct their comments to the chair.
mr. cicilline: shame on the republicans. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from new york reserves. the gentleman from virginia. mr. goodlatte: i now yield to the gentleman from louisiana, mr. johnson, a member of the judiciary committee. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from mr. johnson: i rise in support of h.r. 38, the concealed carry reciprocity act of 2017. our constitutional right to keep and bear arms shoult not be confined by state lines. yet currently a person who has been allowed a concealed carry rmit in one state can be denied that right in other states. when a louisianan leaves the state, our valid, concealed carry permit becomes void absent an agreement with the state we're in or traveling through.
the abill today ensures americans are not denied their second amendment rights because they are in another state. it does so while also recognizing state's rights by noting that concealed carry holders must follow the law of each and every jurisdiction. as a constitutional law attorney myself, it's critically important to me that the fundamental ithe of -- right of every citizen is protected. yes, this is about preserving our god-given freedom. it's about public safety and demon sense. as noted, our letter by 23 states attorneys general, including my home state of louisiana, affirms that concealed carry laws deter crime. as my friend and colleague sheriff rutherford said , he reminded us law enforcement wants the good guys to be armed. this protect ours second amendment right and i encourage my colleagues to support this legislation. i want to thank congressman hudson for introducing h.r. 38
and chairman goodlatte for advancing this legislation through our hughes judiciary committee. i'm proud to be part of this historic legislation. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from virginia reserves. the gentleman from new york. mr. nadler: i yield two minutes to the gentleman from maryland, mr. raskin. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman has two minutes. mr. raskin: there have been 914 cases of nonself-defense killings by private citizens holding permits to carry concealed loaded handguns in the last 10 years, which translates into 1,119 americans dead by homicide, mass shooting, suicide, and murder of police officers, under concealed carry permit laws in the states. in florida, for example, i saw my friend mr. rutherford up there , in august, concealed handgun permit holder everett miller shot and killed two kissimmee, florida, police officers. if you want to give everybody the right to a concealed carry
permit in your state, fine but don't impose that on the people of maryland. we've got our own laws, thank you. since january, we have had 397 gun massacres in america, designs as a slaying of four people or more. two of them, las vegas, which left 5 people dead and southerland springs massacre which left 26 people did, are among the 10 worst massacres in american history by gun. the american people want to end this reign of terror. what do your friends do? do they bring us universal background check legislation favored by more than 90% of the american people of every political party to plug the gun show loophole, the internet loophole, the 7-eleven parking lot loophole? no. do they bring to the floor the bill to criminalize bump stock which they promised to us? no such luck. instead they bring forward a bill that would wipe out the vast majority of concealed carry laws in the united states of america, trampling states'
rights and wrecking the painstaking work of legislators all over the land, drags us down to the most lax and permissive states in the land. it's not a race to the bottom, it's a plunge to the bottom they've engineered here this has othing to do with reciprocity. states have the ability to negotiate reciprocity. your bill destroyses preprossity. it brings us down to the lowest, most permissive law in the country. my state doesn't give concealed carry permits to domestic abusers, to violent offenders and dangerously unstable people. it duncht -- a dozen states -- the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman's time has expire. mr. raskin: protect states rights. thank you. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from new york reserves. the gentleman from virginia. mr. goodlatte: at this time it's my pleasure to yield one minute to the gentleman from texas, mr. culberson. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman has one minute. mr. culberson: thank you, mr. speaker. the difference of opinion on this bill vividly illustrates the profoundly different
worldview of democrats versus republicans. democrats instinctively trust the government and instinctively distrust individuals. republicans instinctively distrust the government and trust the good hearts and good sense of individual americans to be the best stewards of protecting themselves, their family, their property, and their freedoms. our founders understood this and this is why the first amendment protect ours freedom of conscience and the second amendment follows it immediately so we have the ability to protect ourselves, our freedom of conscience against the overpowering force of the government. we in texas enacted in 1995, while i was a member of the texas house a concealed carry law and we've had over 20 years data. people can go to the department of texas public safety website and look under conviction rates and see that the concealed carry permit holders in texas, over the last 22 year, are 21 times less likely to commit a crime than the average texans. the seven minutes that sheriff
rutherford mentioned to us is a lifetime. if you, your family or neighbors are at risk of attack, if the individual, law-abiding american is going -- is going to carry a concealed weapon, they've had a background check, been trained in the use of the weapon and know the law. we all as americans should work to preserve the second amendment right of every american to keep and bear arms of every -- no matter what state they are. in i urge my colleagues to support this leg. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from virginia reserves. the gentleman from new york. mr. nadler: i yield one minute to the distinguished gentleman from texas, mr. o'rourke. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman has one minute. mr. o'rourke: i grew up in a household that honored a tradition of gun ownership for hunt, collection, and sportsmanship and also honored gun safety. i was taught to shoot my my -- by my uncle raymond o'rourke, jail captain and marksman in el paso.
i also have a state -- live in a state that has a license to carry process that requires classes. to quire that someone conceal carry be 2 or older 15, states do not. texas does not grant licenses to violent offenders. 22 states do and texas does not grant licenses to people convicted of stalk, though 21 other states do. what h.r. 38 does, mr. speaker is it subjects every texan, every el pasoan i represent to the lowest common denominator in the united states. it will make our state less, not more, safe. that is why i oppose h.r. 38 and i ask all my colleagues to join me in doing the same. with that, i yield back to the gentleman from new york. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields. the gentleman reserves, the gentleman from virginia. mr. goodlatte: i yield myself 15 seconds to point out that the attorney general of the state of texas has signed a letter, along
with 2 other state attorneys general , in support of this legislation and pointing out that authorizing permit holders to carry across state lines will not result in an increased risk of crime, further strong evidence indicates that concealed carry permit holders deter and reduce crime. speaking of texas, it's now my pleasure to yield two minutes to the lead democratic co-sponsor of this legislation, the gentleman mr. cuellar, two minutes. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman has two minutes. mr. cuellar: for the fix nics act of 2017, i rise in support of this legislation which has been combined with the reciprocity act which is again another section that i support also. on the fix nics i certainly want to thank senator cornyn, representative culberson, representative esty, for their leadership on this particular
issue we've been working on. a few weeks ago, 26 members of the southerland springs community, in my district, were killed by someone who should have never had access to firearms. the investigation into the shooting revealed that the shooter had a criminal history. the defense department and the air force missed six times, six times, in time where the criminal justice process should have reported the history to the nics database. as of 2016, the air force which should have entered the southerland springs shooter's criminal information entered a total of one active record in the nics record. if the air force would have met the minimum obligations, the gunman never would have been able to legally purchase a firearm. this is why we introduced the fix nics act of 2017. this legislation ensures that the federal and state authorities comply with existing laws and accurately report relevant criminal history
accurately to report these records to the nics. it also provides consequences for federal agencies who fail to report the relevant records and ensure that states improve their overall reporting. the fix nics act is important in ensuring someone like the southerland springs shooter never slips through the cracks again. as to the reciprocity part of it, again, i the that both sides have spoken oen that. again, as a supporter of the second amendment, i believe that the second amendment doesn't stop at political state lines. that's something that applies as part of the u.s. constitution and should apply across. so again, i rise in support of this legislation and i ask my colleagues to support this bill and i yield back the remainder of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields. the gentleman from virginia reserves. the gentleman from new york is recognized. mr. nadler: thank you, mr. speaker. it is now my pleasure to yield two minutes to the distinguished gentleman from california, the
chairman of the -- of the gun violence prevention task force, mr. thompson. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is yieldsed two minutes. mr. thompson: i rise in opposition to this dangerous bill. you know, i asked my local law enforcement enforcement what they thought of folks from out of state who don't meet our local requirements kohl g -- coming into our communities with loaded, concealed firearms. these are the folks who are on the front lines of fighting gun violence. we should listen to what they have to say. our sonoma county sheriff opposes this bill and says it would negatively affect our community and put citizens and his deputies in greater danger. chief of police from my hometown said as a lifelong proponent of the ability to own, possess and carry firearms within the provisions of the law, i am whole heartedly against h.r. 38. like many of us, he asked, how long will it take before someone
who can't meet the legal requirements to conceal carry in california goes to some other state with little or no standards and get a permit from that state? our chief of police in martinez opposes this bill. says it's a race to the bottom. overwhelmingly, law enforcement in my district strongly oppose this bill. moreover, there's a reason no major law enforcement organizations have come out in support of this bill. it's dangerous and it's unnecessary. i think my colleagues should stand with law enforcement to -- the people who keep us and our families safe, and oppose this bill. every example that was given from my friends across the aisle don't pertain to this bill. they talked about in their states, concealed carry. their states, texas, was the last one, in texas there's a standard you have to meet. to get a concealed carry permit. if this bill passes, you erase
that standard. somebody from out of state who is a violent criminal can come in with a loaded concealed firearm in the state of texas. someone who is a criminal in the state of texas, where there are rules, can go to another state, get a concealed carry permit and bring that loaded, concealed firearm into the state of texas. this is bad policy, it should be opposed. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman's time has expired. the gentleman from new york reserves. the gentleman from virginia. mr. goodlatte: at this time it's my pleasure to yield one minute to the gentleman from florida, mr. dunn. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman has been yielded one minute. mr. dunn: mr. speaker, i rise today in support of h.r. 38, the concealed carries prerest prossity act this commonsense legislation ensure ours second amendment rights don't end when we cross state lines. we are all aware of the story of shah never-before-seen allen, a mother of three, pulled over in
new jersey after committing a minor traffic violation. she told police legally she had a handgun on her person and a concealed carry permit. she was unaware that the permit was not transfer to believe new jersey and she had no prior criminal record. nonetheless, she spent 40 days in a jail cell. americans like shah never-before-seen are exposed to -- like shaneen are exposed to real risk simply by exercising their constitutional right. this bill ensures that valid, concealed carry permits from one state are valid in all other states. it protects, it creates legal protections for law-abiding gun owners against states that violate this statute. mr. speaker, i encourage my colleagues to support this important legislation and show that the mesh people the second amendment is safe with us. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from new york. mr. nadler: mr. speaker, how
much time do we have? the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from new york has six minutes remaining. mr. nadler: it's my pleasure to yield one minute to the the gentlewoman from new york, mrs. maloney. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlelady from new york has one minute. mrs. maloney: mr. speaker, we have a gun violence epidemic in this country. it's glaringly obvious to anyone paying attention that our federal gun safety laws are pathetically weak and in major need of improvement. this house is passing a bill that undermine gun safety laws and puts more guns on the street and more lives at risk. believe me, if more guns make this country safer, we would be the safest country on earth. under this bill, someone who
couldn't get a concealed carry, someone could bring it into new york if they had a permit from another state. and this puts us all at the mercy of the weakest gun safety laws in the country. this bill is opposed by major law enforcement organizations across this country. i urge this body to listen to their advice and vote against this reckless assault on state and local gun safety laws. thank you. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from new york reserves. the gentleman from virginia. mr. goodlatte: i yield one minute to the gentleman from north carolina, mr. budd. mr. budd: i rise today in support of mr. hutson's concealed carry reciprocity act. each state currently determines its own concealed carry
reciprocity laws and some states don't recognize concealed carry permits from other states. it forces lawful gun owners to sometimes surrender their second amendment rights. the current system has ruined lives and punished gun owners because they fell victim to complexity and uncertainty in the law. my colleagues' bill addresses this problem by bringing much needed clarity to the system. this is a simple proposal and a necessary one and if it's enacted will allow lawful gun owners to carry their guns into other states. this would be very similar to a driver's license. h.r. 38 would not create national standards for concealed carry nor would it take away a state's right to govern their own concealed carry laws. no. this bill simply uses congress'
14th amendment power to protect peoples' constitutional rights from state abuse. sam you ell adams said, the constitution should never be construed to prevent the people of the united states who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. this powerful line from mr. adams sums up my feelings much better than i can. i thank mr. hudson and the chairman for his leadership on this issue. i urge adoption. and mr. speaker, i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields back the balance of his time. the gentleman from virginia reserves. the gentleman from new york. mr. nadler: i now yield two minutes to the gentlelady from demmings.s. mrs. demings: one of my colleagues talked about the 1.7 million permits that are should in florida. those permits are should to floridians for floridians not to any person from any state at any
time who wants to bring a gun into florida. and different from my colleagues, mr. speaker, i rise today to advocate for the safety of every american. and for the safety of our first responders who are entrusted with that awesome responsibility. as members of congress are questioned should be, what can we all do to make living in america safer? every day, every day, law enforcement officers risk their lives to keep our communities safe. last week, i was honored that the house passed the law enforcement mental health and wellness act unanimously. police officers have a tough job. and i think we can all agree on this point, that job is getting tougher. mr. speaker, we must ask ourselves why would would any member, republican or democrat support this legislation that would make a police officer's
job harder and more dangerous and open our officers up to personal liability for simply doing their job? this reckless piece of legislation would allow persons from outside your state to bring their firearms anywhere, including school zones, without applying the guidelines, laws, restrictions or oversight of your state. mr. speaker, i want you to envision this situation from the perspective of a law enforcement officer. an out of state armed individual is stopped by that officer. maybe that individual's license is legitimate, maybe it's not. the officer is on the side of the road facing an armed individual trying to figure out whether the individual's permit is authentic, which the officer is obligated to do. if the permit is fake, failing to stop that individual puts the community at risk. if the permit is real, the
individual has opened the officer up to potential personal liability. in the last year, i have heard my colleagues on the other side talk about how we should better empower states to decide what's in their own best interests. could i have an additional 30 seconds? mr. nadler: i yield the gentlelady an additional 30 seconds. mrs. demings: this legislation strips individual states of their power and puts our public safety officers and legal and personal jeopardy. supporting this legislation is reckless and irresponsible and as a former chief of police, i urge my colleagues to vote no on h.r. 38. thank you, mr. speaker, and i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlelady yields back. the gentleman from virginia. mr. goodlatte: may i inquire how much time is remaining on each
side? the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from has 2:30. and the gentleman from new york has 2:30. mr. goodlatte: at this time, i yield 1 1/2 minutes to the gentleman from maine, mr. poliquin. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from maine has 1 1/2 minutes. mr. poliquin: mr. speaker, for generations maine families have enjoyed the great outdoors that means fishing, camping, and hunting. that is part of our way of life. and part of that way of life is responsibly and lawfully owning firearms. we are comfortable with them and have for generations. . you hudson's bill is a commonsense fix to a patchwork of state laws that will confuse and do confuse law-abiding americans who have valid concealed carry permits in their
own states issued by their own states when they want to travel to or other states which have different concealed carry laws. h.r. 38 does not allow travel as long as the holder of a concealed carry license does not obey the laws of the states that he or she is traveling to. and i read directly from the statute, that this bill shall not be construde to limit the laws of any state. the other side of the aisle needs to make sure they get this exactly right because they have not been correct on this fact. mr. speaker, mr. hudson's bill actually and additionally strengthens existing regulations by requiring federal government agencies to promptly and accurately require a reporting rather, to the f.b.i., someone who is mentally ill, someone who has committed a serious crime or
someone who is in the country illegally and should not have a firearm. this is a commonsense bill that will help law-abiding citizens to help keep our families safer. i yield back my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields back the balance of his time. the gentleman from virginia reserves. the gentleman from new york. mr. nadler: mr. speaker, we are prepared to close if the other side is prepared to close. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from new york. mr. nadler: how much time do i have? the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman has 2 1/2 minutes. mr. nadler: mr. speaker, this bill is advanced -- i'm not sure in the name of what, but it is going to do is make us less safe and to overrule all our states. under this bill, someone who lives in new york could go to another state, doesn't even have to go to another state, just apply to the other state, get a
concealed carry permit from that state and never set foot in that state and then use it in new york, thus overriding new york's laws. now we have heard it said that we have -- that this bill is necessary to protect the second amendment constitutional rights of gun owners. but the fact is, there is no second amendment constitutional right for concealed carry. in the district of columbia versus heller case in which the supreme court said the second amendment established a personal right, justice scalia's opinion was that it was entirely consistent with the constitution and said the majority of american courts to consider the questionville held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the second amendment or state analogies. so the second amendment argument is simply wrong or disingenuous. we are living in an epidemic of
gun violence. 33,000 americans are killed every year. no other country approaches this. no country other than those at war, but no country in peace ime has 172, and we have 33,000. it's not because of mental illness but large presence of guns. 2017 stanford university study found a direct correlation with the most permissive concealed carry laws and violent crime. general studies have shown the direct correlation of the presence of the number of guns and murder rates by guns. so this is a bill that is a death sentence for many americans. that's what this bill is, a death sentence without trial for many americans by increasing the danger of guns by overruling states that fear that we don't
want weapons on the new york city subway or chicago metro or other places with great concentration of people. we are going to say the states with the least restricted, maybe most rural, may be most sensible and impose those restrictions on the other states. it is wrong and death sentence for many americans. and i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from virginia is recognized. mr. goodlatte: for the purpose of closing arguments, i yield to the gentleman from arizona, mr. schweikert. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from arizona is recognized. mr. schweikert: this is one of those -- we all have subjects that we find fascinating and for 25 years i kept files of abstracts on this because i actually participating in writing arizona's 1993 concealed carry law. i wish this was an honest conversation about the data because we all want our communities and families to be
safer. i believe i can show you the statistical abstract data, states like arizona, adjusted for population, the violent use of firearms is almost one half of what it was before the adoption of our concealed carry law. concealed carry response i will for that? of course not. some of it is mental health, some of it is law enforcement, some of it is incarceration. it's complicated. but if you look at these data abstracts of crime statistics in the united states with the misuse of firearms, turns out that states that have adopted concealed carry compared to states that have gone other directions, states have gotten safer and there is some on brilliant articles when you compare florida and illinois, big populated, complex states, florida has gotten dramatically safer. illinois has not.