tv Homeland Security Chair Mc Caul on State of National Security CSPAN February 10, 2018 11:05pm-12:45am EST
>> sunday night on afterwards, black lives matter co-founder with her book when they call you a terrorist, a black lives matter memoir. >> as we created black lives matter, we knew we had to get people on board. we also have to interrupt when people co-opt black lives matter. we make sure we were challenging people that we love and artists to not say other communities matter, but to really focus on ok and thee in the allies and then, we took it out to the world. >> watched sunday night on
c-span's book tv. >> michael mccaul of texas gave a speech on national security at george washington university. after he spoke three republicans from his committee participated in a panel discussion about the issues he discussed. this is one hour and 35 minutes. >> good morning. if i can ask everyone to please put their phones on silent mode and let me welcome you to the campus of george washington university. it is a real treat, a real pleasure and privilege to want to get host chairman mccaul on
campus. he has been chairman of the house homeland security committee since 2013. at a time where there seems to be gridlock in washington, d.c., i can say without any exaggeration, he is arguably one of the most prolific and more importantly, effective legislators in d.c. right now, focused on a whole host of national security issues and also chairs his committee in a genuinely bipartisan way, which is very true to the issues that our country faces on national and homeland security. i will be very brief, which is very rare for me, and then i will turn it over to the
chairman now. afterwards, we have an amazing panel. when you think about members of congress, you don't immediately think cia or national counterterrorism center or you don't immediately think of prosecutors working on some of the most important issues facing our country, but i am most proud to say that we have three of the best members who have done just that, following this discussion. so, mr. chairman, thank you for being a great friend to the center and to myself and to george washington university. most importantly, thank you for all that you do. [applause] rep. mccaul: thank you. thank you, frank. a special thanks to george washington university for hosting me. it is a real honor to be here. i want to thank the students also for attending this session. i see a few of you out there. i have two daughters in college and triplets in high school. when it comes to homeland security issues, i have some personal experience as well. education is really the key, and that is why i am here today. you are really the thought leaders of tomorrow and on these
from. as i reflect on my time as chairman, i saw the rise of isis and i saw the collapse of the caliphate. i am disturbed by the evil that emerged over the last decade under richard a american leadership. i'm encouraged by the progress we are making in eradicating this evil that has entrenched itself around the globe. as an internal optimist, i am confident our nation is finally heading in the right direction. moving forward, it is critical that we continue to reclaim our sovereignty. this includes enhancing security along our southern border, addressing vulnerabilities in our current immigration system, encouraging responsible use of cyberspace, improving aviation security and defending against malicious ideology and actions of our enemies. on the southern border, really, for too long, and i come from the state of texas -- where i was a federal prosecutor with the jurisdiction of the texas-mexico border, and for too long, it has been a open-door which has had transnational criminal organizations like ms-13, dangerous opioids and drugs coming across, trafficking women and children have poured into our country destroying lives, shattering families and ravaging our communities. despite the noble efforts of
law enforcement and 80's and advocacy groups and government agencies, human traffickers continue to exploit thousands of migrants making their way into the united states. security along the southern borders is critical. as we know, there are glaring vulnerabilities also in our immigration system. our secretary calls them legal loopholes. i was in the white house, sort of a surreal moment at the table, with both senators and congressmen, democrats and republicans, as it was covered on my tv from most one hour, discussing how to resolve this current situation we find ourselves in. we agreed to the four pillars. border security, fixing chain migration, the visa lottery system and finally, fixing daca so these children can stay in the country legally. i would argue though, our nation's security has been weakened by "chain migration" and the visa lottery program, which is random. each of these programs risk exploitation from those who do not share our values and
actively work to undermine them. look no further than the two terror attacks we saw in new york city. these programs allow terrorists to legally enter our country and rick havelock -- three -- allow them to wreak havoc on our way of life. halloween, a immigrant mode down by vehicle innocent americans, agent unions and the belgian in a new york city. in december, the bangladeshi i wholaf entered the united states as a young adult through chain migration intended to blow up a new york subway terminal in times square. i happened to be in new york that morning, just a few blocks away when the attack occurred. i was promoting my congressional childhood cancer caucus. i remember being notified by nypd about the attack, and it reminded us that there is still a serious threat.
securing america's future act, a bill introduced by the house of the house -- my the chairman of the house judiciary committee, myself, was introduced to close these legal loopholes. this legislation authorizes the construction of a border wall system to stem the flow of illegal immigration. it also provides effective technology, infrastructure and manpower to defend our border. 5000 additional border patrol agents, 5000 customs and border protection officers, including the authorization of the national guard to provide air support to border security operations. in addition, we demand the use of the mandatory entry exit system at all points of entry to address visa overstays. why is this one important? the 9/11 hijackers came in legally and then overstayed their visas. the 9/11 commission recommended
in their report, that we address entry-exit in a biometric way, to determine when people come in and when they leave. until we do that, we will never be secure. the statistics i have, up to 40% of the people here are here illegally are actually visa overstays. we also call for an and to "chain migration" to protect the nuclear family and the visa lottery program, to defend against future exploitation to our homeland. we propose a merit-based immigration system to attract the best and the brightest, not pulling a number out of a hat. finally, the "securing america's future act" allows daca beneficiaries to receive a three-year renewable legal status while ensuring that gang members, individuals with criminal convictions or convictions in juvenile court for serious crimes are not
eligible for this legal status. with respect to jihad and the threats, our american way of life has been under attack well before 9/11. 1979 was the year that changed everything. in 1979, the revolution in iran brought the ayatollah to power where he still remains. that same year, the soviets invaded afghanistan and the mujahedin rose to power, allowing osama bin laden to become a force to be reckoned with. now, 39 years later, the threat landscape remain serious.
my committee has been focused on the threat of foreign fighters leaving the caliphate and vetting procedures. i established two taskforces to address issues specifically and we enacted as frank mentioned, over 20 bills to make america more secure. mike gallagher is going to show up, i think, and we have passed over 60 bills and this congress, many of which are just sitting in the senate. these two recent terror attacks last year it new york, i believe, underscore the threat that we face from a determined enemy that does not sleep. our homeland, our allies, partners, friends are confronted with a stark reality and will be years to come. since 2013, we have had 150 homegrown jihadist and terrorist cases in the united states and 179 isis-linked incidents in europe. i would argue that europe is a
far more danger from the foreign fighter threat and from refugees coming in, and the homegrown jihadist threat. these stats are alarming when you look at them and they are a demonstration of why we must remain vigilant in our quest to expel violent islamic extremism from the earth, by destroying the roots from which it came. this threat manifests itself in the unstable ground upon which jihadist ideology spreads, whether it is the middle east, north and sub-saharan africa, the philip beans and elsewhere. these radicalized enemy combatants from achieving their jihadis glory. and of course, the memories of 9/11 and the images of the claims striking the twin towers -- images of the planes striking the twin towers are never far from our thoughts. while we are almost 17 years removed from this, let me assure you, america's aviation sector remains a crown jewel of isis
and other terrorist groups targeting our homeland. late last year, the director of the national counterterrorism center testified before my committee that they are seeing a surge in terrorist activity against commercial airlines. recently we discovered that terrorists have the capability laptops, bombs from and remember, the printer bomb plot in 2010. unfortunately, tsa has struggled to deploy innovative solutions that can be effectively and efficiently deployed at airports such as computer tomography. this technology is like moving from a two-dimensional x-ray to a three-dimensional m.r.i.. to deploy innovative solutions the fact is you can see a lot more with an mri than an x-ray. a much clearer
picture for screeners to detect these threats. i have seen these devices, they work. we had two pilot programs in the united states and at their request, it was cut in half by omb to deploy 300 machines. that is what they asked for, and it was cut in half. $150 million to do this. because that is a lot of money. but in washington, we talk about billions of $150 million to dollars. protect americans on inbound flights in some of the most dangerous spots, in my judgment, it is worth every penny. and, i am not going to have that on my head. i talked to the appropriators to sufficient funding to fully protect americans in aviation. this has alsoaviation. this has also been bogged down in bureaucratic delays. each day, we fail to effectively
mitigate evolving threats to aviation security, we risk letting terrorists get ahead in their efforts to harm the traveling public. additionally, we have seen insider threats to aviation security grow ever more concerning in the wake of the metro jet bombing in egypt. dhs's efforts to enhance security measures for flights to the united states, they continue to be vulnerable. in recognition of this glaring vulnerability, we enacted legislation to enhance tsa security procedures, particularly screening employees at secure access points. in recognition of we must continue to close gaps, security capability apps at these overseas airports, most critically istanbul and cairo. i have taken many trips in there and i can tell you, these are
not secure airports. high volumes of american travelers come out of these airports and i have seen these .ulnerabilities firsthand in addition, we must continue to enhance airport security in other high risk airports in the middle east and out of northern africa. doing so is critical to our national security because these threats are only one flight away into the homeland. but as we all know, the threats against our homeland are not restricted by physical boundaries. we have cyber as suzanne spaulding know so well. having worked at dhs. i want to applaud you for your service to the department. you did such a great job. [applause] rep. mccaul: as suzanne knows, our adversaries, both nationstate and state actors, threaten us around the clock in
cyberspace. whether it is north korea launching a global cyber attack, crippling infrastructure to china stealing our nation's valuable intellectual property , to russia conducting disinformation warfare campaigns to sow discord among our people, to iran attacking our financial institutions, to terrorists spreading evil propaganda over the internet or criminals taking our financial and personal information, we are alldisinford to harm. i was one of the millions victims of the opm data breach by china in 2015 which resulted in over 20 million stolen security records including social security numbers and fingerprints. to mitigate the threat, we must improve our cyber resiliency and protection. the house passed and i authored to elevate dhs chaco national protection program directorate
to a direct or-level position and rename it "the directorate for the cyber security and infrastructure security agency." in other words, create a cyber security agency within the department of homeland security to help the priority and the mission. i hope the senate will pass this legislation, soon. combating malicious cyber activity also has a strong diplomatic component. for that reason, the house is voting on legislation introduced by the foreign affairs chairman, ed royce, proposing the creation of the office of cyber issues at the state department. this legislation will establish a high-level ambassador for cyber security to leave the department's diplomatic cyber efforts. you must establish closer relations with our allies and our partners and enforce cyber commitments with other countries. we must also enforce our norms
in cyberspace because right now, we do not have any. there are no rules of the game. that is a problem. not to mention what would happen if a nato ally was attacked in cyberspace, with article fived invoked -- we must eliminate the legal barriers that our private sector confront . including the mandatory requirement 11 foreign government to review a company's source code. this puts us at a major disadvantage both competitively and from a security standpoint. we must also build products that are secured. with the growth of the internet, things are more vulnerable now than ever. take for example intel. we are the largest chipmakers in the world. regarding its semiconductor vulnerabilities to multiple down its sector, it poses a significant risk to chips
manufactured over the last two decades. these threats are real and impact all of us. i believe now more than ever that securing our nation at home requires protecting american strength a board. -- a broad. north korea is a good example. nationstate adversaries have expanded their influence at the expense of our own. in north korea, kim jong-un has marched down a path of nuclearization, absent american leadership. he is now on the cusp of obtaining the ability to conduct a successful nuclear icbm strike anywhere in the world, including against the notice states. -- against the united states. this is not acceptable to re-add that is why the again -- have begun to lead a maximum pressure campaign against north korea to compel him to retreat from this destabilizing nuclear ambition. these efforts include working
with our international partners to forge a diplomatic solution, to isolate the regime by increasing economic pressure on the north korean economy through sanctions and refusing to take military force off the table , unless kim jong-un reverses course are. further, chinese and russian efforts to undermine national sanctions on north korea at the expense of global security, must not go unheeded. the united states and our partners and national security must confront them head on. --must be clear and decisive in our actions which takes time -- which takes me to the next country hotspot, iran. as north korea marches on with their destabilizing behavior, so does iran, the world ticket leading sponsor of terrorism --
let me be clear, the nation has threatened america and must not be allowed to ever have a nuclear weapon. unfortunately as negotiated by the previous administration, the iran nuclear deal known as the joint conference of plan of action injected the iranian regime with billions of dollars in fresh funding for their expansionist and terrorist agenda. from yemen, through iraq and syria, all the way to lebanon and the mediterranean, iran continues to solidify its influence in the region through what prime minister netanyahu of israel calls "the shia crescent." this land bridge connects iran to its destabilizing proxies throughout the region such as the lebanese-based hezbollah. those in the region understand that iran's actions are a direct
threat to their regional stability. worse yet, the regime funds expansion with domestic financial resources siphoned away from the iranian people. while inflation soars into ron, tehran, the regime wil will virtually -- brutally suppresses any dissidents to its irresponsible policies, but i believe there is light. we see iranian's pleading for freedom, protesting openly in the streets, and i believe that we as americans have a duty to support them. we must stand with them. in january, i introduced legislation backing the iranian people as they demand reforms in their country. this legislation requires the president to determine whether senior members of the government of iran are responsible for or complicit in human rights abuses , corruption or censorship. it also calls out the iran
takings practice of americans and other foreign nationals half page as a crime against humanity. outlines several steps the administration to take in conjunction with our allies, to stop this practice, including imposing sanctions on iranian officials responsible for unjust intentions. i think the iranian people want, need and deserve better. when it comes to russia, putin's regime continues to hinder american efforts at peace on the korean peninsula by covertly kim's regimee economy which ultimately helps further their nuclear ambitions. across europe and the americas, putin continues to engage in hostile disinformation campaigns intended to sow discord among
our people, divide europe and drive a wedge between our nato allies, as recently as estonia and ukraine. they are right on the border of russia and the cyber attacks are fierce and intense. of disinformation israel and the threat in ukraine and crimea is real. europe and our allies, they have tried to drive a wedge between them. in syria, he is bolstering the brutal regime of bashar al-assad, making the likelihood of a political solution more difficult and more challenging. in response to russia's aggressive foreign-policy, congress passed and the president signed the counter
america's adversaries through the sanctions act to impose an economic price on russia's meddling in our international interests, and we must remain vigilant encountering russia's attempts to meddle in our elections in the future. i got the briefing on the russian meddling and i have been consistently strong from the beginning that it indeed happened, and that there needs to be consequences to what they are doing. we need to call them out for what they did, and there needs to be consequences to that. as in'scomes to china, grip -- as vladimir putin's grip on china remains, china continues to consolidate its control over all facets of chinese government. military, commercial and civilian life. last october, the president was elevated into the people's republic of china's constitution, on par with mao zedong, one of the most brutal dictators we have seen in the history of the world. we have seen him purchase
-- purge his competitors from within his country and compel the commercial or to support destabilizing around the world. the bottom line, china is on the rise and its influence is expanding globally at a rapid pace. it is the soviet union of our times in my eyes. china is already rebuilding military bases around the world as added -- as evidenced in djibouti. this military expansion is not peaceful, and we know what they are doing in cyberspace. it will grow as the one road silk road expands, strangling and enveloping the developed world, suffocating freedom until it's dying breath. to counter china, we must support our allies, partners and friends and expand our support to the international development efforts.
in closing, as the ss the threat landscape of 2018 and beyond, i urge us all to seek automatic solutions, to address the challenges before us. that improve the rights of those around the world and protect those who cannot protect themselves. freedom-loving people from the radical ideology and exploitations that terrorists and repressive regimes are trying to affect them with. we must protect those who are elected to serve, by closing gaps that allow our enemies to infiltrate the homeland. we must enable the notice states to thrive at home so that we can continue to support our friends abroad. i say we because these threats are blind to party affiliation.
i've always said that the terrorists don't check our party affiliation. it takes an effort that will require a holistic bipartisan approach, one that includes collaboration with state and local stakeholders, private sector, federal and law enforcement, intelligence communities and our military. one that requires us to work together with our foreign allies, partners and friends, upholding this bipartisan tradition and maintaining american leadership on the world stage is very personal to me. my father was a bombardier in world war ii and dissipated in -- and he participated in the d-day air campaign on a b-17. he bombed the nazis and helped defeat the evil of his time. i was recently in auschwitz and i saw the horrors of what the nazis did, the pure evil of thed gas chambers.
my father and his band of brothers did not think about politics when they were drafted to serve. he actually volunteered. they simply put our country first and the example they set is one we should follow because as we know, freedom is never free and we will always have to fight for it. ronald reagan once told us that " freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. dear: . we must pass it to our children in the bloodstream. it must be fought for, protected and handed down for them to do the same for one day, we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the united states, where men were free." these are the challenges of our times and just like my father's generation, the greatest
generation, we fought and defeated fascism that threatened civilization, and we also defeated communism. i am confident in the current struggle, that we will also prevail. so with that, thank you, and may god bless the united states of america. [applause] >> thank you. mr. chairman, thank you for a tour de force and for correctly highlighting the many challenges that we face as a nation right now and the huge mission to be able to deliver and make sure we have prescriptions to some of these issues we are all facing. we have about 15 minutes or so for questions. i will pick up the first two and -- it is dominating the news, so
i think we have to zero in on your colleague on the committee of intelligence recently released a memo. i would be curious what some of your thoughts are as it is gripping much of d.c. right now. rep. mccaul: in terms of background, i was a federal fisacutor, i worked on applications with the fbi. it is probably the most serious power within the federal government, to have national security wiretaps, to monitor american citizens in the united states, or americans deemed to be an agent of a foreign power. i look at it from that context. these applications need to be based on evidence. my concern after reading the document was that it bore the principal pieces of evidence was a dossier memo that then fbi director comey came out later to say was salacious and
unverifiable. in addition to that document was a yahoo! article, a press report which in my judgment, i have a dupe respect for the press, but it is not evidence. -- i have a deep respect for the press, but it is not evidence. be evidence before you can put a wiretap on someone in the united states to demonstrate probable cause, that they are an agent of a foreign power. given what the fbi director said about the dossier, i find that difficult to believe, but that is sufficient evidence. in my experience, they would be a duty to notify the fisa court when it was deemed by the fbi director that there was salacious and unverifiable, to my knowledge. i am not sure that happened. i think it should have happened. i think the court may have viewed this application in a different light. having said that, there are 2
things that need to happen going forward. i think from the american observer, you are seeing a republican memo, and you will see a democrat memo come out area for the american people, for this to -- for us to get to the bottom of this, two things need to happen. i believe that the entire fisa application including the affidavit attached taking out methods and sources, should be released to the american people, so we have a full context of what was the basis for the application from a evidenced standpoint. i believe americans have a right to see that. both democrats and republicans. secondly, and lastly, i know we need to move on, i believe the inspector general is looking into a couple of these fbi agents' political motivations with respect to some of these politically-charged investigations. when i was in the justice department, we prided ourselves on not being partisan. nobody knew what your political
affiliation was and that was for a reason. because we were not supposed to bring our politics into that office because it undermines the integrity of the institution and the credibility. and, that should not have happened in this case. is lookingy general at this particular investigation, but i would respectfully request and recommend that the investigation be expanded into this fisa warrants to determine whether it or not, and if not, it should not go forward. host: heard is on the intelligence -- congressman will host: is chairman, thank you. i am sure that will come up in the next panel, especially given that congressmanhearhurd is on e committee as well. let's transition to aviation security and you talked about,
powerfully, how it will not be on your shoulders if we don't fulfill some of the commitments we need to be able to put in place. terrorists by definition are thinking predators. they base their actions in part on our actions and it is a bit of a changing and evolving threat. what would some of those top tier priorities be for you, to be able to -- this is not about risk elimination, it is about risk mitigation and how we manage all of that, but what would some of those top issues be on your list? rep. mccaul: with the defeat of isis in iraq and syria, they are going elsewhere, but they had bomb-makers. i cannot go on to the classified space what they're, but we know they are out there and we know that they intend on making these bombs. the threat was actually worse than i thought. when i got this breathing on
multiple occasions in the committee, i found it to be one of the most disturbing and quite frankly, kind of what keeps you up at night questions. if they are using vehicles and knives, then really, that is not the crown jewel. the crown jewel is aviation. they are still seeking to blow up airplanes even though they might not be able to hijack it. that threat is very real, i'm -- enough where we have to take action. when we found out on the committee that we are still using x-ray technology as opposed to a computer tomography which is like an mri which would help the screeners because explosives light up a different color, you can see everything in the bag that is going on the airplane. why would we not want to develop this? , well,wer we got was
maybe we will do some study groups and 2019 and maybe we'll tart deploying this stuff even though we have pilot programs that work. my answer is that is unacceptable for the american people and the safety and security of the american people. we need to deploy these machines. as rapidly as possible. they exist, currently. if we are going to squabble between $75 million and $150 million, working closely with the tsa administrator, i said i want to support your request and i know omb cut your request in half, but he is putting the american people at risk. i know everyone on the committee, on both sides of the aisle see this as a "not on our watch" type of thing. we sent a letter to the workingrator and we are
-- and they said well, we cannot do the machines without the updated software. my point of view is, let us put the machines and update the software. i see this as one of the biggest threats and something we need immediate action on and the congress is doing that and i know the tsa administrator once -- once that, and we have to back him. host: here here. one more quick question -- host:hear, hear. you had mentioned the reauthorization of dhs in your remarks. can you set some light on why that is so important? if i am not mistaken, it is a first-time the dhs has written a reauthorization bill. first, it's significance and fingers, not to point at the other chamber from a bicameral perspective, do you see the senate following through? rep. mccaul: i do. in my judgment, this has taken too long. the jurisdictions committee
needs to be fixed first. i had to assign a mo you at the speaker's needs to be fixed first. leadern other chairman to get the first ever reauthorization of the department of homeland security since it's inception. that is astounding. a abdication of article one constitutional responsibilities. a lot of these offices really , like suzanne's don't exist. ice doesn't exist. host: the name change itself is so important. rep. mccaul: ice doesn't exist in law. it is kind of demoralizing to a department when congress has not officially authorized or recognized it. in law. that is why i think it is so important to codify these offices and codify the blue campaign and the cyber security agency and reauthorize the entire department because then they are protected from what happens so often in the federal
government and that is department attacking other departments and then you have the congressional stamp of approval saying congress has authorized you, and congress respects you by law. host: i am to allow one question because we are running out of time. would you like to see the same state department? rep. mccaul: the committee has a lot of unrealized potential. i would go down the same -- the ndaa, we do that right and it means a lot to the department of defense. that is naturally the model i was trying to sequence at the dhs, along with the state department, which is on of the most critical department in the united states government. these are all national security departments that deserve to be reauthorized. host: we have time for one question. we will go right up front, here.
please identify yourself and wait for the microphone. >> i am on the board, here. first of all, congratulations on the miracle of getting a bill through. that was nothing less stunning. i have spent some time on the hill. you really do have my admiration for that. you talked about cyber, you talked about terrorism. a question i want to ask is in all of this? there has been a lot of does session on whether or not fema actually belongs in a the department of homeland security to riyadh what are your thoughts on that structure? not that it does not do a very important job, of course, it does the riyadh just wondering if it belongs in that structure. rep. mccaul: that is a good question. we did reauthorize it in the bill.ization i think when the homeland
security act was passed after 9/11, they were looking at all threats to the homeland, both man-made and natural disasters. so i think fema falls into that natural disaster piece. i don't envy fema. there is a misconception that bill. i think when the homeland security act was passed after they have this first-response capability. they are really there to be supportive. my state got hit by harvey and we had a supplemental that doubled the white house's request. it is sitting in the senate, and we hope to get action. whether it was my state or florida or puerto rico, or the virgin islands, they all need that attention. i will say brock long is very action-oriented. he likes to get past the red tape to get assets on the ground effectively before, rather than after. that is why you did not see a katrina-like a response. host: he comes from the first responder community and his that did he deputy for a long time. mr. chairman, i hate to do this but i am required to be a bit of
a tyrant to make sure we have time for your colleagues here. but thank you for your leadership, thank you for being a good friend, keep fighting. ultimately, that is what it is going to take the riyadh some of these budget issues are virtual, and we all know that when something bad had ends -- it is getting out in front of this, constantly reminding people of the legitimate risks. so, thank you for that. rep. mccaul: thank you. [applause] host: if i can ask our next members to come up. .e are in for a rare treat as i had mentioned, we have three members with incredible national security expertise, experience and leadership. congressman casco who represents the find state i am from,
new york. he served as a prosecutor and he worked a number of very sophisticated and important narcotics cases, and he also chairs the subcommittee that oversees tsa for the house homeland security committee. if i am not mistaken, you are also on tni? transportation and infrastructure? willwed by congressman hurd, who is also a former central intelligence agency officer. he can talk and has walked and sludge that talk on a lot of these issues, having served in the clandestine environment for a number of years. he also serves on the house permanent select committee on
intelligence. thank you for joining us yet again, congressman will hurd. also, congressman gallagher, a former marine. a captain who has also served at the national counterterrorism center. you must be the only member of congress who i can think of who has served in iraq with general patriot, two tours of duty. he can actually speak for the men and women who they are actually overseeing. ,hose are the money boots getting the job's done, so we would like to thank you for that. given where we are, i think we hurdstart with you rep. not only because you sit on the house homeland committee, but also on the hipc and shed some light more so than heat on some of these issues. your colleague mr. nunes, his
memo, why should we be thinking? rep. hurd: sure. i'm going to do something i was told not to do. she is a graduate of your fine institution, and for those members of the press that are here, this is off the record, if you would. i will tell you something you probably do not now. host: just so you know, this is being covered live. rep. hurd: i will say it anyway, -- [laughter] politicians are prone to hyperbole and exaggeration. you probably did not know that. [laughter] breaking news, breaking news. let me tell you what the memo is not. the memo is not a rebuke of bob mueller's investigation. bob mueller should be allowed to turn over every rock, pursue every lead to completion. we have to have trust in that process. this is not a rebuke of the
rank-and-file of the fbi. having the honor of serving side-by-side with them for almost a decade, in my career as a undercover operative in the cia, the fbi has kept our nation safe. on september 12, 2001, i was the fourth or fifth employee of the ctcso, the counterterrorism operations office, the entity that ended up persecuting the war. and providing headquarters support to the war in afghanistan. at that time, if you were to tell me that 17 years would go by without another attack on the magnitude of the attack in new new york and on the pentagon, at that point it would of said you were crazy. the only reason we have gone 17 years, is that the men and women in the intelligence services, in the armed forces, the men and women in our diplomatic corps and in federal law enforcement
the fbi, have kept us safe. [applause] the memo is about a process and what kind of information should be used in order to allow the federal government to spy on americans. in my opinion, unverified information, circular reporting and rumors should not be used in a application to spy on american citizens. we should be protecting our civil liberties. it is congress chuck a responsibility to shine a light on these issues and conduct our oversight. now, some of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle will say, we should have brought members of the fbi and the doj in front of the committee and asked them questions. we did. i participated in dozens of hours of interviews with our senior leaders of the organization.
as a professional intelligence officer, my job was to tie the difference between intelligence and information. intelligence is something that has gone through a vetting process and has been confirmed. things like that. that was not the kind of information that was used in this application. some would say, you revealed -- congress revealed pacified aformation -- sorry to gone long wind, but this is an important issue. -- revealed classified information. the memoo has read knows, there was nothing in the memo that has not already been out in the of that sector. where was the outrage when that information was already released and leaked to the press? where was the outrage when it was dribbling out? the only thing that was new was the specific mention of a newspaper article that was used in the application.
again, this is about making sure that we protect our civil liberties, and make sure that we can trust these leaders of our organizations, and as congress has responsibility to perform oversight, even if it is an incredibly difficult partisan time. and -- ih this, -- i will end with this. the press criticizing congress for doing oversight, republicans and democrats being unable to agree on something just because the other side said it, the perceived distrust between executive branch, legislative branch and the intelligence committee, that is feeding into the narrative and allowing the russians to win. the russians were involved in our elections for one simple reason, to a road trust in our civil and democratic institutions. we are allowing it to happen by having these partisan fights and
not having this conversation dispassionately. where we should be is what is our strategy to counter this ?isinformation we are not having these conversations. having it here, because ultimately, it will be part of the having it here, because ultimately, it will be part of the dhs's responsibility for coordinating the public sector response to this disinformation. host: i am glad you brought that up. if it makes you feel any better, kicking offlly cyber-active measures, not just exclusively on russia, by the are the most active. i promise you almost every country is going to be in this activity. why, because it worked. it is unfortunate. i would like to ask you one quick question and then i will get your colleague's view on that. should the minority report be released and would you support congress -- >> absolutely, and we will vote on that tonight. the reason some of us did not in the beginning was that there to things from
ongoing operations and activities. host: very good. gentlemen, anything you would like to add to this? >> i will not repeat anything that will just said, but i do agree with him. just one example of why this is important from a prosecutor standpoint. the federal organized crime prosecutor capacity, i did well over 100 wiretap applications. when you do wiretap applications, it is incumbent that you not only show the probable cause you have, but it is also incumbent upon you to make sure that the information you have is fully and fairly and accurately portrayed. if you just wrote all the good information in a wiretap affidavit, but you do not discuss the things in there that maybe territory information that you are not using, then you are
not providing accurate information to the judge judge. if you don't provide an accurate pitcher to the judge, and you are not following the standards of the department of justice. in this case, the fact that certain things were not disclosed in a wiretap affidavit says that they are not presenting a clear picture of what the information is about. if you tell them the things that are helpful to your case, but you do not tell them -- well, he is being paid by the party who him with ao go after personal vendetta -- that would be a very germane thing for a wiretap affidavit. if that is not in there, the judge may want to take it and suppress the evidence. all the proof and the evidence will be suppressed as well. that was a big glaring thing that i saw when i read the memo the first time. what i will say, i worked at doj for 20 years as a prosecutor.
i traveled all over the world and i routinely have taskforces everywhere. political corruption cases, organized crime, police corruption cases. the fbi was always by my side along with dea and many others. and i can tell you, they are highly professional. so when you have things like this from the oversight capacity, it is incumbent upon us to get this out in the open and fix it, and use it as a and example, so that it does not happen again. host: thank you. >> at the we were here to talk about the past and the eagles. [laughter] although i agree with both of my colleagues -- i cannot really add anything unique to it rather than as somebody who is newer to politics, it strikes me that we have people who are living in parallel realities right now.
we do not even have any sort of common ground to analyze this stuff dispassionately. i see this order of tearing we do not even have any sort of commonapart communities like pls like northeast wisconsin -- people are reverting to their tribes, and we just cannot have a conversation. that is bad for all of the agencies that we are supposed to be overseeing, bad for our communities. i do not know if it is worse it than the past, but it is frustrating as a member of congress, to not be able to have a conversation without it immediately devolving into hyper-tribal partisan warfare. that is a problem which should all think deeply about solving. in order for this system to work, there is a bunch of on written rules norms, standards of decency that if one side violates one, the other
side escalates -- that is mutually assured destruction. host: i think you speak for many who share that exact feeling. i totally second that. thank you for underscoring that. let us go to some of the substance. waxedssman mccall eloquent on the counterterrorism issues that we all face. everyone on this stage has scar tissue around some of these issues. curious, secretary mattis and the release of the national security strategy, -- i will actually read because i do not want to get the quote wrong -- america's military in an euro of strategic purpose. great power competition, not terrorism is the primary focus of u.s. national security. globalo we stand, the
war and terrorism, our campaign against isis -- the biggest mistake i think, we do, is not focus on these issues, because they tend to rear their heads in .gly sorts of ways to riyad you served in iraq. you have seen the surge. hegressman gallagher: planted in there so i don't claim credit for the surge. good to see you. thanks for not firing me, i appreciate it. [laughter] so i was back in iraq over christmas, and in afghanistan, and i was struck by the optimism that primarily our military servicemembers had about the mission. i think that is always the tendency with us military folks, we sort of like to believe we can accomplish the mission, no matter the obstacles. there are very real gains our
iraqi partners have made against isis with our support. obviously, the prime minister declared a victory over isis, but as we saw with the surge and its success, all it does is give the civilian leaders in opportunity to forge some sort of durable political modus. and ironically, i think the fight against isis has papered over some of the fault lines that really will determine the future of the country, most obviously governance in sunni areas of the country relative to the central government of iraq. but i would say that we heard more concerns about ongoing tensions between the kurds and the central government and the perceptions that they've taken a harder line against the kurds. they are getting outmaneuvered on that and it there is a lot of trepidation around security forces will make a move on a crossing in the
northwest. if we don't figure that out, we could find ourselves fighting the next variation of isis. in afghanistan there is a sense that the new strategy is the right one, particularly harder on pakistan. my understanding is men are often rivals when they heard we would be pulling out, embraced each other and started to cry , which is a testament to how these problems for us are existential for partners on the ground. over the long-term, do we have a sense of how the afghans will be able to sustain these gains without our significant involvement? i don't know. i think that they are open questions. frank: and al qaeda has been biding time. its various affiliates elsewhere. i would be curious, in addition to -- and congressman gallagher just underscored what comes in its place. and i don't mean to be too blunt
spoken, but during president clinton's election, it is the economy. in this case, isn't it also the ideology? until we address the roots that propagate the fuel and ideological underpinnings, won't we always be reacting like firefighters instead of directly preventing? >> a question i ask anybody who has been involved in terrorism -- the global war on terrorism, with any level of sin no ready, i ask them what day do we celebrate? what day are we going to celebrate? in the global war on terrorism. i have gotten a lot of crummy responses, but the best response was from a friend and business partner. ambassador haley crumpton. he said terrorism is like influenza. it is always going to be around, but you can inoculate communities from it and sometimes it goes up, sometimes
it is the influenza of that is going to kill people, sometimes it is going to wreak some havoc. if we think of terrorism as how you fight influenza, it will be something that will be around. congressman hurd: it has been around for a long time and it will continue to be around. so how do we do with it? and i think when it comes to national security strategy, a missing piece is that we are still focusing on terrorism, but our allies are getting more involved in handling this issue because you have to work at some of the root causes that has made terrorism show its ugly head. and i always remind folks, in december of 2001, when kandahar fell, we had killed 75% of al qaeda leadership, we had pushed all of al qaeda out of afghanistan. 400we did that with americans on the ground, 300 special forces, 100 cia and the greatest air force the world had
ever seen. we were able to take the entire country back. it is not like the ttp that the terrorists are using are better than us, they don't have more resources, but we have seen with isis is diminished ability. but al qaeda is still around, they have metastasized to other parts of the world and we have to address that ideology. and with countering violent extremism, that is working on the root cause. they are focused on our communities here in the united states, but they are working with the state department and our allies around the world to address that underpinning. and the real cause. and i will make one final comment. i was in riyadh, probably a year ago, and mohammad bin salman , the crown prince of saudi arabia, said that the problem of islamic extremism is a civil war within islam.
i was blown away that he actually said it because of to -- up to that point i never had a president working from that part of the world talk that way and realize that this is an issue that we all have to work together and so i think addressing extremism and islamic terrorism is something that we have more partners that realize it is their issue. frank: thank you. it sounds like you are somewhat optimistic where saudi arabia is going on some of its campaign. because i think the issues of have direct relevance to countering deceptive activity by nations, whether it is russia, china, north korea, iran. you name the bad perpetrator -- congressman hurd: we should be looking at it as a model for countering disinformation. that is a good point. frank: what about your thoughts?
they arean katko: absolutely right from the military and big picture standpoint. i will talk about the threats that still exist because they are very real. 2013, for example in , western europe there's been 179 isis linked incidents. 179. and what we have had with the caliphate being dispersed is a lot of these hard-core survivors of the caliphate have dispersed and gone back to western europe , for example, and they are ticking time bombs. they go back from this area where they were protected with this idealism to going back to perhaps segregated neighborhoods , in brussels, which have brought in all kinds of terrorist activities. and when i was with a delegation, one-stop was in jordan and we were up at a camp and the number of reports they had of ex-isis fighters try to
get back into the homeland was terrifying. you couple that with the ability of isis to export their fear and export their terrorism without having to lift a finger other than pressing buttons on a computer and they are getting people going in their homelands. what i saw in western europe, we went to berlin, we have gone to paris, brussels, we have gone all over. one thing i know for sure is countering violent extremism is much more active in western europe, perhaps out of necessity, then anything. they get into the neighborhoods, they get into the communities, and they stop something before it happens by trying to anticipate someone breaking bad. we do not have that similar amount of effectiveness in the united states. do you remember san bernardino , for example. people walked by the guy's
garage and they saw him making what they believed were bombs. they knew he was upset, they did not know who to call. they did not know if they would be racially insensitive to call even though he was making bombs. 14 people died and 14 people were injured because nobody thought they should intervene. in addition to the threat itself, it is intervening and developing a better counter violent extremism program. the last thing i will say and the impact of a lot of work i do with tsa. we have had 2000 hearings in my committee. in those hearings it has become clear to us, and my colleagues know this as well, that isis is fixated on taking down airlines and al qaeda is as well. they can create so much more mayhem in other ways, but they are fixed on it. they took down the metro get -- jet, they had another bomb
that blewin a laptop out the side of an airplane and the only guy who got sucked out was the guy who detonated the bomb. good for him. it shows there is a threat. something about the size of this concealed in a laptop could be -- take down a jet. think of how hard it is to try to find this. we are doing remarkably good jobs, but when i go over to an airport in amsterdam and i look at the 3-d imaging the we want use here and i see that they have 12 of those machines of the airport and i asked where did you get those and they say american manufacturers. and i ask, how long did it take to get these from start to finish? pretty much a few months after we ordered them they were here. then we had a hearing in our
committee and that same machine, they are doing -- they are 2019.ng algorithms until and then in 2019 they will have six prototypes of these machines at airports nationwide. we have 450 airports nationwide. and they are going to talk about six machines a year for now. -- from now. the problem with technology and the problem with keeping up with technology, and we can talk about this in the coming months the lack of technology going , from ideas to the front line is so bad in homeland security. probably one of the biggest problems. frank: i actually think that you are spot on there. and dod and intelligence has learned the hard way that it is not an option. i think we need to be looking at ways where congress oversight can help speed the ultimate deployment of technology.
>> let me add. i am sorry, we will get a real good you cannot put me up. -- derailed. and you cannot put me appear with two of the smartest guys in congress. [crosstalk] when talking about the homegrown threat, you can translate it into the lone wolf scenario, which is one of the hardest friends in the fbi and law enforcement to deal with. one of the issues is since 9/11, information sharing across the federal government has improved. i call that horizontal sharing. but information sharing down to state and local has not. vertical sharing. and so the person that will have to deal with a lone wolf is that private security guard at the mall or a discotheque. are they doing suspicious activity reports? where is that suspicious activity report going?
is someone able to correlate that information? that is one of the problems we have. congressman hurd: and we do not even have an agreed-upon framework on that information of how we share it. that is something that suzanne spaulding, we have addressed. she has spent so much of her time at dhs to make sure that there is a prominent framework so we can share information vertically as well. and we need to be getting the information we are getting from our friends overseas. that katco chaired last congress, when we did our work it was shocking our , european allies were only looking at one of every three travel documents. they were not checking the names of known travelers against watchlist information. those are the kinds of basic blocking and tackling everybody should be doing and we are not doing it and we could improve that in the u.s.
>> and we have lived through some of the tft issues, you are spot on. frank: i want to pick up on one point. it is not a debate. lone wolves, there is mood music around these. i'm not a big fan of that terminology, because it assumes they are literally alone. haveeality is, they networks of individuals that propagate. >> they get it online two. -- too. frank: they get heavily assisted online. one thing that i want to pick up on, and it would be crazy not to go to cyber. i can play nobody gets a cyber. i want to make sure we get there myself. i do want to go to one more question on some of the ct issues. got two former chairs of
the committee the past multiple passed multiple bills on the house side and earlier we were talking about lawmakers. what made ice is somewhat unique is that it became a cause -- across the web for all people with bad actors. whether it is al qaeda in the arabian peninsula and their bomb making skills or whether it is al qaeda and the islamic -- it became what was missing in the bill that you guys put forward in your report that needs to be addressed yesterday from a congressional standpoint? maybe we will start there. you chaired it to committees, both here -- you chaired two committees, both of them here, so is there anything not acted upon the needs to be? >> my committee really grew out of the committee that chairman catco command -- convened last year.
as riley pointed out, the order of magnitude of the threat is so much greater than, for example, when the soviets invaded afghanistan. a lot of times these were jihadi tourists, they went to get a picture with the ak. of course, now we have upwards of 50,000 foreign fighters, anywhere between 50 and 200 have american passports and they are hard-core dudes. i mean, they have a lot of experience. dealing with that will be a generational challenge. analysisur committee's and we sort of proposed a variety of initiatives which i think are important. but i will get to what we left out, i think. congressman gallagher: i had a bill called the counterterrorism information sharing improvement act which tries to get at this issue of the u.s. military collecting data downrange in places like iraq and syria, how do we ensure that information is handed off to dhs which will be the lead agency for making sure
that person doesn't come off the battlefield in iraq and syria and go into the united states. there are some other bills my withagues had that dealt things like enhancing the use of social media when it comes time to do screening and setting. one thing we asked dhs to look at is whether it makes more sense to put the terrorist screening center under fbi review and merge the function with dhs's national targeting center. and that is something where we could really use your sort of red team on that proposal. what i think we left out is the issue that they have mentioned, which is the fact that we have looked at all different pathways terrorists can cross our borders, but the reality is they can cross our borders hundreds of thousands of times every single day online. that question of online radicalization is so difficult. i would be lying if i had a silver bullet solution for it. i fear that when we talk about this stuff and we talk about
things like cv, it boils down to -- seecve, i feel it we sort of boils down to people at the state department doing mean tweets to the jihadi's. and i feel like we sort of lost the capacity for political warfare, information warfare we had during the cold war. >> i understand what you are saying. and i agree. the biggest thing when he asked the question was western europe. and the vulnerabilities and in western europe are real and they are substantial and they can affect the united states. congressman katko: you have countries that don't do a good job of reporting intelligence at all. some do not share any intelligence. passports whoolen have not been reported. and when people show up with a stolen passports the , vulnerabilities which will alluded to our amazing. when i went to my first congressional delegation with
pay attention to , where i went. we went to israel, iraq, berlin, brussels, turkey, and paris. when we went there there had not been any major terrorist attacks. within six weeks or two months when i was getting home, every single of those places had a major terrorist attack. and what was sad about it, to me, was that every place we went, especially within the european union, they said we know what's coming. but our citizens do not have the stomach to take the necessary measures. we have had our 9/11, so therefore we don't have the measures in place in the united states and they still don't. and they are getting, they are getting their butts kicked and in western europe. they have people living in segregated neighborhoods that are just boiling with anger and boiling over. brussels is the best example of that, so is paris. so i think the one thing that we continue to do is put the screws
as diplomatically as we can, in western europe to get them to up their game to getting it, because they've got it. they still have a long way to go. we still need to get them in that place. because if they are not safe, we are definitely going to be vulnerable because of our relationship with them. frank: last question and then i will open it up to the audience. on we are hosting the ukrainians wednesday, for a cyber discussion. and as we all know, the attacks on the grid in particular from a cyber perspective from a tradecraft perspective, verified what many of us knew, that cyber incidents, cyber attacks can have real world physical effect. clear to say there is a practice for whatever we see in ukraine tends to find its way elsewhere. what should we be asking the ukrainians?
and let's be blunt, there are a cyber cyber -- lots of actors here. russia has been the most effective, the most active. and we have not seemed to figure out the best way to deter or compel the bad behavior. hurd,s men -- congressman we will start with you. because i think with secretary mattis was getting at, it is not that when you are talking about accidents that existential threats, there are a handful of countries that are at the top of that list. some that are more likely to potentially use such means. so, talk to us about russia and cyber. i will ben hurd: taking the ukrainians to san antonio after they are done up here, so what i will be asking them is what is the latest and greatest encountering electronic warfare? we should be looking at eastern ukraine as ground zero for
testing and improving all of our counter electronic warfare activities. they are, they have been dealing with this in an acute way much longer than anybody else. ing how thee electronic warfare is being done and what we need to be doing to counter that. understanding their skill gap would be helpful for us in figuring out how to counter what the russians are doing. i think that is the most important thing we can learn then we ukrainians, and as a country, we have to figure out how we do electronic warfare, who are the navy seals when it comes to electronic warfare? and then how do we defend our infrastructure and what are the roles and responsibilities between the public and private sector? general keith alexander says if we think the federal government can defend itself by itself and
the private sector can defend itself by itself, it is the equivalent of the french thinking the maginot line will defend them against the germans. one, first thing we need to do, is reorganize, and i hope it does get done. named the've already department of homeland security as the belly button when it comes to working with the private sector. frank: so i understand, would you actually consider electronic warfare, should we be thinking about it like our adversaries do, integrating it into full spectrum warfare capability? cyberew separate from in europe? congressman hurd: we need to think of it differently, because cyberspace is a domain. a space. so i think, on the battlefield
it is a different skill set and activity that needs to be done than if you are trying to protect the grid in the united states of america or defend the pentagon. frank: congressman gallagher, anything? congressman gallagher: i agree with what will is saying and would like to bring things down to practical examples. first of all, i think it is one of the existential threats we face. we live in a wired society. we are hooked up. i think it is a huge threat. and i also think anyone in background ore the community will admit that the amount of malware that is probably sitting in the public service utilities and critical infrastructure throughout this country is quite substantial and has been placed there by other countries, for sure. they have not activated it because they don't want to incur the wrath of the united states. i absolutely think it is one of the most important issues that
we have today. and i think that the identification of the methods and means by which they are trying to do this is really important. we passed a bill last term that encouraged people who are subject to attacks or find malware to work with the federal government and with the national counter terrorism center and the national crime center, and providinglp them by -- no personal data extracted, just the ipo address and malware gets turned over and work with the federal government to help them. figure out how they are doing it. learn the methods they are doing and give us a chance to fight back. it is a crude way of saying we need to understand what the bad guy is doing and try to outsmart the bad guy.
now, once you have learned that stuff it also helps on the electronic warfare side because when you learn what is effective you can put it to use for yourself and there is no question that cyber command and everything going on in the military sphere is going to be extraordinarily important going forward. no question in my mind if we ever have a bad spell with russia, a lot of electronic warfare will be at the forefront. frank: would you agree -- this is somewhat of a loaded question because i have written extensively myself, but we are never going to firewall our way out of this problem. so of course we need to do more to share information, build resilience, defend and protect our systems, but ultimately we have to get to the point where we can articulate a deterrent strategy. where we can make -- be transparent. congressman gallagher: absolutely. that is why i think electronic warfare is critically important.
y people morerif than anything. frank: what is the nuclear test equivalent of cyber? congressman gallagher, and then i will open up to the audience for two quick questions. >> bad analogy hits to the heart of the problem. in 1949, when the soviets detonated a nuclear weapon, it freaked everyone out. congressman gallagher: in contrast, when i and everyone on the stage received a letter saying thank you for your service, your records have been hacked, because it is not as visible or at the physical nexus of loss of life, we have not had that wake-up call, or that sputnik moment. that analogy is always miss dues by the way. but it is a long way of saying at the end of the day, just as our failures in cyberspace, particularly the nsa's most visible recent failures have been human failures, i suspect the solution -- even though we
are talking about high-tech stuff -- will be human. the question is how do we , recruit the best human capital? recruit the best nerds? from a military perspective, each branch is trying to grow the capability organically. which is great. the commandant talked about maybe we create a separate career path for cyber and special operators to do their own thing and don't have to go back to the flagpole. i just suspect, this is just a hypothesis, that even that one not be quick enough. the type of guy or girl who will join the marine corps at 18 years old and wants to do a bunch of push-ups is probably not going to be a world-class coder, so i am intrigued by cyber academy -- we just need the best model to make use of the human talent we have out there. >> i am glad that you left with that, because technology
changes, human nature is pretty consistent, but ultimately, it will be a combination of both. isn't it? i mean, everybody needs to be cyber aware. the vast majority of breaches occur due to human error -- phishing and the like, but you also need that cyber elite force and i am not going to go only to the navy seals, because i think other services have a lot to offer to that as well, but it is sort of a combination of both. >> cyber warfare in the future isn't going to be hacker versus hacker, it will be good ai versus bad ai. and so if we do not have people who understand how it works, if we do not have people who understand how you create an algorithm that is learning, that is going to be the need of the future and right now, we are only teaching that stuff and phd -- in phd classes. >> i don't think that his future, it is happening. not only in the military domain,
but in other domains as well. agnostic to what the intent and outcome is. we have time for two very quick questions if you can raise your hand and identify yourself. i am actually already over time. question here. and the second question, if any? question right here. >> that means we solve it all. >> thank you. patrick. i am the head of europe policy in the united states. i am interested in your comments about europe. we understand we are not the united states of europe and don't have a federal response to it. i am delighted to say we have guest officers fed by u.s. intelligence from tsc, which is making the border safer for the u.s. and greece and italy. what my question is -- my is, and it is a very
broad question but i would like , one answer if you can. where do you think europe, from your inspections, where will the shoe pinch? where do you think we need to go? we are doing what we can post the attacks, charlie hebdo -- we have had fairly horrendous attacks on our people, including attacks on americans, the jewish community, and not just isis. we have had other attacks that have come from other factions in the middle east. if you have one area you think we can focus on, we are looking at it closely, but something where we can improve in cooperation with the united states? >> i just got back from a delegation there and i went to one a couple of years ago. and when i went to one a couple years ago, before things really broke bad in western europe, there was a prevailing feeling that we know it is coming -- our citizens don't have the stomach to do the necessary things. when i came back this time, it
is remarkable how much stronger you have gotten in europe -- the european union as far as your counterterrorism efforts. and i think that one place where you have advanced on us and could teach us is countering violent extremism. from the airport side, which i do a lot of work on, i am at a loss as to why we don't screen people in the united states who work at airports. i am at a loss. i know the eu went from not doing the screening to 100% of screening of all employees within the european union. that is a big difference. progress in a of short amount of time. my suggestion would be to keep going because the stronger you are from a security standpoint, the stronger we are going to be. and then, doing also what you are doing is allow us, homeland security, ice, all these agencies, fbi. allowing us to embed. crazy i gets me , over there, the fbi is not always talking to ice in europe.
that blows my mind. so -- i grew up on task force concepts where you put two fbi agents, three dea agents, let's go after this organization, and they brought different strengths to the table. but they all shared the information. we have to continue and get better at sharing the information. it is the organic stuff growing up, the bad things happening, before it gets worse. and then information sharing is better between western europe and the united states. the more we can do that, the safer we are all going to be. i can tell you, we have seen a tremendous amount of progress in just a couple of years. you have had some pretty horrific incidents from charlie hebdo and others. so it is going in the right direction. information sharing is probably the key. >> can i underscore, we have done a lot of work with europol.
and i have got to say they have , contributed greatly, especially in cyber as well as counterterrorism issues in terms of its cross-border, transporter and how private sector integrates with law enforcement. there is a lot we can learn there. and that we are learning there. it is ultimately not a government set of solutions alone, but the private sector. i am going to let the last question -- would you want to comment at all? where does the shoe pinch, i love that. it is not just about taking off your shoes at the airport. >> i want to associate myself with the comments from the distinguished man of new york. >> he is a very smart man. [laughter] >> the only thing i would add is we are having this debate in the united states, privacy versus security, i think it is a false choice and we can do both. and i think that that is a similar conversation that you will have to deal with in europe . and if europe -- i know it is not a homogenous entity and the
united states can get more on the same page on that, it will improve and information sharing. >> last question and a quick one. >> given the rise of the iot increased interdependency among critical infrastructure, particularly in a digital world, what do you see is the federal role for improving a cyber literate workforce, because it is no longer just going to be cyber issues are the responsibility of your it department, but everybody. what is the federal role in promoting that? >> i think step number one, the federal government needs to understand what is on its network. does the federal government have 100% of awareness of all the devices on its network, absolutely not. let's start there. let's figure out that one and go. >> i think an entity like -- is
something that is accepted across as smart, thoughtful folks on a number of issues creating standards. i am always concerned that if congress passes laws, as soon as the ink is dry, the thing we just passed is obsolete. so anything that congress and the federal government should be doing, it should be based on outcomes and not individual technology or pieces. but one thing we could be doing is driving the workforce of the future, and i appreciate the comments on what we call the cyber reserves. but can you get federal dollars to help boys and girls in high school to get training that they need in school? it may not be a four-year institution, it could be only two years a certificate. , when you finish that, you can come in to the federal government and work for the same
amount of time. if you go into the private sector, the private sector will loan you back for 20 man days a year. and that improves cross-pollination of ideas and a good two to the point where we will never be, the federal government will never be able to compete by salary with the private sector, so let's train the workforce to go in and still be able to take advantage of it. frank: you have the last word. congressman katko: i agree with these two. part of what i mentioned about the bill, which encourages the private sector when they are hacked, to learn to be more collaborative, is going to be very important. everything else you said. frank: gentlemen, thank you for your service now and your service in previous years. keep fighting and thanks to all of you watching c-span and elsewhere, but also for joining us today, so thank you. [applause]
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