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tv   Counterfeit Medicines Illegally- Imported Fentanyl  CSPAN  April 10, 2018 10:02am-11:14am EDT

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, we waterboarded someone. it did the same thing is that gas attack. we are hit for hit in a way. the statue of liberty said something about bringing the war and everybody into this country, maybe we ought that on the mexican border. call onat is the last this topic and this program. i told you a lot about it already. two hearings with mark , akerberg in the senate house hearing tomorrow. watch those on c-span and get more information about it on we will take you to the house energy and, in committee where former dea agents who inspired the netflix series narco's join policymakers. the topic will look the latest
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threats posed by fentanyl. we take you to that event. [indiscernible] >> we are going to start. anybody who is waiting to come in. have a seat, we have reserved seating in front. can we get a mic check? >> testing, 12.
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are we ok >> -- are we ok? anyone still outside at? . welcome everyone. i will do it my texas way. how are y'all doing today? my name is marv shepherd and i'm the president of the board of directors for the partnership for safe medicines. i want to welcome you all to the annual briefing. we do this once a year. i'm going to see of few words and introduce greg walden. we have our guest speakers up front, we will turn the majority of the program over to them. before theantly, staff leaves do not forget to grab your box lunches. you have to get your priorities right.
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is an interesting organization, close to 70 members. they represent associations of pharmacists, physicians, health care workers, wholesalers, manufacturers and the main concern for why we started this group was the onslaught of counterfeit drugs coming into the country. a consumerly oriented group that takes care and provides information on counterfeit drugs across the country. us on our website, we have the website called safe i hope you grab the brochure out front, the big sick one. we have a lot of information on the current report that we are going to talk about on the fentanyl of use and the problem with counterfeit drugs. you solve the
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slide, dip thing the states and the states were in order of when the were found to have -- slides deep thing the states and in order of when they were found to have counterfeit fentanyl. this is the worst i've ever seen of a counterfeit opioid in the united states. and out43 and counting, of those 43 we have 22 confirmed which is a conservative number considering the difficulty of confirming a death to a counterfeit drug. it is difficult. we are dependent up on the ers.ers -- coron we need to make this clear, are fromhese deaths fentanyl laced counterfeit drugs. we're not talking about cocaine,
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or hair when or anything like that. we about what people think -- or we're not talking about cocaine or heroin, a counterfeit that has been laced with fentanyl. it is those types of products. these fakes look identical to .he real product they were manufactured in legally and imported and tainted with fentanyl. they may be manufactured badly, and so a single pill could kill you. .hat is how deadly we have evidence of just that. less than a single pill. they of been documented in 43 states as of april 2018.
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there has been many of victim. here are three pictures of some of the big dems. many of the fatalities are those -- thateve that those the people were identical to the prescription medication they resembled. in february 2015, joe patterson on the left, that is his son in the pictures. when he was pregnant took the fentanyl laced product and he never got to see his newborn son at all. joe patterson from georgia took a single painkiller from a friend when he pulled a muscle and he died. kerman took a quarter of a xanax and never woke up after taking that. for bradyis the same stocks very in ohio, and even someone in minnesota.
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outook us a while to figure that the drug that killed prints -- prince was laced with fentanyl. mother is holding a picture of her son. americans are dying and there are a few things that ps m would like to do to this problem away. we need every american to be aware that our country is awash in fake pills. we need that information out there when you are borrowing or buying from an unclean source, not from a legitimate pharmacy. only take pills that are offered by legitimate licensed pharmacies is what we are rich -- what we are recommending.
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through the international mail facilities, coming in a powdered form. has beenl -- fentanyl made in garages, basements and barnes and then sold on the black market. customs andelp the fda officers bite requiring electronic data on this stuff flowing into the united states. some kind of electronic packaging identification when they arrived at international mail facilities. inre are a dozen in the -- new york. a million packages a day, and it is hard to keep track of. is a lack of resources. we need to enforce the laws around the illegal importation to control the volume of law enforcement needs. it is huge.
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people and thehe number of packages coming in. fda commissioner says that illegalof the importation volume, less than one half of 1% of the packages in the country are screened. you can see that we do not have the people to screen all of those packages. that i have been harping on for over a decade, we need to curb the selling of still manufacturing equipment -- -- pill manufacturing equipment. it should only be allowed to pharmacists. you should not be able to go online and buy a tablet press.
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there is only one use for it, to make counterfeit medications. we need to get control of it and stop that. findu get on ebay you can them, they sell them and they are relatively cheap. you can buy them everywhere. our drugo protect supply system. we do have a closed system, it is illegal to import pharmaceuticals into this country. if we legalize drug importation, we will not only invite counterfeit vents and all but counterfeitnyl but everything. we had legal importation we would have a major problem making sure products are legitimate. it would worsen the crisis in the united states. lastly, and i will turn the podium over to representative
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greg walden, i am pleased to introduce mr. walden who chairs the house energy and commerce committee and has devoted a great deal of time investigating the causes of the opioid crisis and the ways that congress might help. representative walden is in the messed of a push -- in the midst of it to bring a barbed person legislative package that will boost law enforcement and public health efforts and improve access to addiction treatment to the house floor. representative walden, thank you for coming and being a champion for public health and safety. [applause] thank you. i want to thank everybody for being here for this briefing and the work you do, both from the partnership of safe medicines but also the dea and our law
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enforcement community, to make our communities and our country safer. we thank you for the work you do. i am glad we have public interest groups like the partnership down -- documenting the drug problems in america and raising awareness. is reallyhere, it shocking how bad it has gotten. as much work as we have done to delve into the underlying problems, every day we learn something new and how bad it is. i appreciate everyone being here today to talk about this topic. it is ripping apart the fabric of our neighborhoods, oregon to ohio, connecticut to california. families, sometimes unwittingly and sometimes knowingly are experiencing this tragedy. one that is claiming the lives of more than 100 americans every single day. it continues to evolve from
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pills to the emergence of synthetic opioids which are easy to manufacture. our efforts continue to evolve. crisis began,id the energy and commerce committee has been at work, members not only on the committee and off the committee are meeting with families and doctors and law enforcement officials back in our states. i have done it -- i've done numerous roundtables to figure out how we get treatment for those who are addicted and how we stop the illicit drugs from coming in. everybody has a seat at this table, it is an all hands on deck mission to help those struggling with addiction and to prevent future generations from falling victim to the scourge. we have been conducting a two approach, first investigating the causes like pill dumping in west virginia
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which is where the focus has been because of court cases allow us to peel deeper into that onion to learn what went wrong. the second track is passing meaningful legislation. willions that we think make a difference in the lives of americans. as part ofhis -- three sets of legislative hearings we have pursued different choices to boost medicare andprove medicaid and insurance to provide needed care for patients battling opioid addictions. a couple of bills that we are considering and have been working on in the last few months that i think are important to highlight in the wake of the work you all are doing include bipartisan work by a michigan representative tim walberg and debbie dingell. they have been working on the safe disposal of medications
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act. it will reduce the number of substances at risk of diversion and misuse by allowing hospice workers to do put -- to dispose of medications. these drugs after you pass away are not family heirlooms. prescribedssued and to an individual. we need to make sure to close that loophole where they seem to filter out into the wrong hands. we considered a bipartisan bill by our resident pharmacist on the committee. an act to better empower pharmacists in declining controlled substance prescriptions when they suspect the prescription may be fraudulent, forge or up to beat for abuse. what we need to realize is that we are in the midst of more than one crisis. the illicit crisis has been
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growing while we make inroads in addressing prescription opioid abuse. illicit opioids are especially concerning because they are manufactured poorly with unknown quantities of ingredients. we heard some pretty important examples of the deaths that have occurred. is a synthetic opioids that is 50 times more potent a hundred times more potent than morphine and the leading cause in the overdosed -- overdose death. who wentohn cap go after -- we have john who went after traffic rings before he came to congress. he proposes an act that will theylaw-enforcement what need to get fentanyl off our streets.
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we know there is no one answer, there is no silver bullet. combating the crisis is my and the committee's top priority. we are working to understand the numerous angles and how to stem this tide. and how to help all of us understand these threats. this panel.roduce javier peña, steve murphy and aaron graham. familiar faces to anyone who watches certain shows on certain channels. -- javier'll be there and steve from their work on the "narcos." bank -- you know aaron because he worked with them. i'm sorry they did not make a show about you, i guess you have to have a mustache to have a television show made for you.
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i want to build on something marv said. in the appropriations bill we wanted to increase of the funds available i-94 million dollars. in addition to $6 billion for to increase the funds available to $95 million. in addition to six milk -- $6 billion for mental health. have year and steve have and steve- javier six years in the dea. this is difficult work, a difficult political environment and challenging police work and also taking a toll personally. i want to thank you for your work and coming here today to talk to us about the dangers of counterfeit medications. it is linked to global cartels,
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and where we should be looking for solutions. may iyou for being here, introduce javier peña and stephen graham -- stephen murphy. [applause] >> i want to begin by saying thank you very much. ok. let me begin by saying thank you very much to the congressman for their leadership that he is showing on this important issue. i want to thank steve and hobby or from coming. some of you might wonder what would these to know about counterfeit prescription medicines. i want to add on to what the congressman said as well as was the picture that marv painted. that is that counterfeit medicines touch all of us. counterfeit medicines are personal issue and there is not anyone in this room who has not
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been a patient or a caregiver. my mom died of pancreatic cancer. you get that diagnosis, and it is five months to live, you start trying to figure out is there some the else -- something i can do that no one can figure out. and i assure you that there is someone on the internet who says yes. i assure you that it will not work. cops and beyond robbers, beyond policy and it is a personal issue that we should take an interest in. we all remember when counterfeit medicines first began, and it was lifestyle medicines 20 or 25 years ago. to the crisisned we see today with counterfeit opioids, pain medicines and medicines across all categories. we have breakthroughs in hiv and hep c and within minutes we see bad guys offering counterfeit medicines at a fraction of the
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cost. we have to expect that we will see bad things happen. steve talks about the consequences of those decisions. about thessman talks cartels, we have seen recently that world customs organization's have told us that the counterfeit medicines comprise of a $200 billion underground economy. context, that is in more than haraway and and campaign combined at $60 million. --this is more than haraway buying --d cocaine in combined at 60 million. investigate pablo in the, the first cartel world. he started up sanding down gravestones and selling those. he of all to the person he is. we trafficking organizations
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other medicines. we have all seen the cartel that fentanyl intog the united states. we know ms 13 is manufacturing medicines toing united states and protecting markets in los angeles and new york. that paints the picture for wife stephen hobbie air has a perspective -- for why steve and javier have a perspective. no. they do next, retire, this is an unending problem and we see the transition into counterfeit medicines. i cannot imagine two better experts who under stand this threat. it is with great pride and appreciation that i introduce these two people. why do not we start with
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javier, when you first arrived in columbia, what was your mission and what did you think you were going there to do and what you found with little escobar. javier: when we arrived, pablo one or started off small two kilos at a time. before it was all over, he was responsible for 80% of the cocaine that was reaching the world. we had never seen a trafficker of this magnitude. , andwrote -- very wealthy employed violence. pablo escobar is known as the of narcohe inventor terrorism. he would kill anyone who would get in his way. a trafficker is trying to get their goods into the united states, and aaron makes a good
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point. after we took down pablo escobar what happened? cali cartel happened. there is people out there, bad people who will take their place in order to make money. they do not care, and i will tell you a little -- rob escobar had his cocaine labs. they were producing thousands of kilos on a daily basis. he had a sign at his cocaine labs. in the cocaine labs you need all sorts of nasty chemicals. , if i catch you using the product, i will kill you. he did not want his workers to use it that everyone else to. a violent era and something we do not see again. goodvier touches on a
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point. when i started talking to these two about the counterfeit drug problem and if they were surprised about this evolution. the question i had, what was pablo's greatest business acumen. could he have won a major corporation? and the answer surprised. steve, why don't you share -- share with us about why he could be so successful and his driving producible activity to maintain control? we hesitate to give him credit for anything because of who he was. he was nothing more than a mass murderer. he had somewhat of a charismatic personality, he could persuade people to do his bidding for him. thosey he persuaded people was, if they did not do what he asked them, he killed them. that is a strong incentive.
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guilt, noremorse, no pickup -- no compunction about pulling the trigger or ordering someone to be killed. we attribute between 10 and 15,000 -- 10000 and 15,000 murders to pablo escobar. a man says the number is more like 50,000 people that pablo escobar is responsible for murdering. that does not include the people who died from use of cocaine. orcould be talking thousands millions of people because of one individual. when you watch the first trailer to narco bank -- marcos tank -- -- we were not prepared for the business model of cocaine trafficking that he introduced. that spread throughout the world. way ofs his one
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attaining success in the cocaine business by murdering those of that do not do what he asked you to do. and you think about that the cartel and some of you may have seen the recent special , you see theedown same thing. for anyone who has read about or seen the news about ms 13. their first rentable is intimidation and violence. it is a consistent threat. >> the other reason that javier and steve are so important for this hearing is that, they are former dea's and did an amazing job in columbia and we are all very proud of. javier grew up on the border, in texas. that is his home. and you have seen some of that portrayed. usbe javier could share with what it was like growing up. people used to going to
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mexico to buy whatever pills they thought they needed, no prescription, no quality control. people would come back and use the medication. some would get sicker and some would died. it was a problem. sought but it was common. what we are right now with canada also, but it is like i said, this counterfeit medication is all made up. is the all sorts of wrong chemicals, no quality control. people are dying. youught personally appeared would have the witch doctors that people would go to to get their medication. we have seen all the examples of this. a good night when we were talking about ms 13, and the other cartel.
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usee people will intimidation. by intimidation they will put body parts, and we have seen it. will roll-- they heads and hang bodies by the bridges so that they will not mess with them, so that way they will believe them alone. the corruption to get this counterfeit medication, they are into everything. groups, they will make money on the counterfeit, cocaine and heroine. they're just trying to sell it to us here and they know that people are getting sick and dying. that the fine point. if you do not know about the threat of this medicine you will likely become a victim. this.touched upon we sought this and did not expect it. the other thing that i do not
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think we expected was this opioid crisis, this substance abuse problem. everybody in the food chain in law enforcement -- from law enforcement to policy makers have a role in raising awareness about the threat. the interesting thing about steve is that he has a son who is a surgeon. medicines.escribe steve has had an unfettered access to legitimate insights with his son about how do you know about what doses or how me pills to prescribe. i would ask you to share those conversations. this is not an issue or a problem that any one element can solve. we come to light -- we come here on capitol hill hoping to get input from congress. congress cannot solve this problem for us.
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if you are honest with yourself and take a close look at your family, maybe not your immediate family but extended amalie, you will find that someone has an opioid issue, in every one of our families. if you do not know it you are not looking close enough. to thet here pitching choir. but i am not here saying things i do not experience. i have a family member who is a pain pill addicts. -- who is a pain pill addict. we cannot just look at one element and solve this problem. the old saying, it takes a village to raise a child, in this case it will take a hold village to fix this problem. everything from congressman, oaks and washington, d.c. all the way debt -- folks in washington d c down to the
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family elements. i honestly do not have the answers, i wish i did. this is an epidemic that i do not think any of us were prepared for. when you look at the way narcotics involved in the united states, we started out with marijuana and heroin, those were the big problems. then we saw the introduction of cocaine because of pop low escobar. then we saw crack cocaine, a pure cocaine base. then we have met in that amine come along -- methamphetamine come along. then we had fentanyl, then carfentanil, and other analog forms that are more powerful. whole point, we need the input of the people in washington, d.c. that also the input of our doctors, pharmacists, teachers, we need everybody in the community you need to be on the team here
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addressing this issue. i'm a big advocate of consequences. on my soap box, for every action you take in your life there is a consequence. it does not matter what the action is there is a consequence good or bad. takel know that if we illegal narcotics or potentially take a bill that we do not know what is in it, there is the consequence of death. consequence of addiction. the whole point is that it will take the village concept to address this issue if we are ever hoping to be successful. we cannot point the finger at law enforcement or washington to expect them to create a solution. it takes a collection. and not just here in the united states, this will take a worldwide acceptance and responsibility and participation to come up with an answer. steve touched on the law enforcement piece a little bit.
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what we have seen for sure is dea really understands the biased, i might sound but it is ok to be proud of your family. they understand the issue with doctors that may be overprescribing, armistice that -- be dispensing without pharmacists that may be dispensing without legitimate prescriptions. you guys are all familiar with the squeezing the balloon concept. the dea has crushed hard on legitimate sources. as stephen javier will tell you, where there is an opportunity someone will fill it. as the dea has become more successful, the fentanyl cartel and others have been happy to fill that void. medicine ishe coming in through the internet across the border. is only left only to the
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imagination the ways that traffickers can smuggle drugs into the united states. i remember many years ago, i was standing at. -- i was standing at pier 39. we were watching container ships come in under the golden gate bridge. i said to my father-in-law, which containers do you think you had the cocaine in it and which one has the harrow when and which one has the undocumented immigrants and which one has the weapons of mass destruction. you are in new work, florida or san francisco, go to a port of entry. just ask yourself, which one of those do research and which -- which one of those do we search and how do we do that. of raisingter awareness.
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javier: i see that as a dearth of information to people who just want to give their bills and work for their family. -- awarenesswe raise with the dangers. the majority of the people are good people. we are all good people but there will be that one person that is going to try what ever they can to get their counterfeit medication across. i am a firm believer that it is a cooperative effort. the one thing i applaud is the partnership for safe medicines, bych what you all are doing bringing in the pharmacists, congressman and what you are doing. as long as there is money to be made this cartel will smuggle whatever they can.
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they use their imaginations, they use their creativity. , if we knew it, we would all be in a better place right now. the solution is starting off what we are doing here, taking an interest, caring and getting involved. how do we get to the hispanic community? more education and public -- theys, more, do not are still doing it and still going into mexico and buying their pills and coming back in getting sick. factors.ombination of education, public awareness, the schools. we used to have some great programs, remember the dare program? is aember my brother
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teacher, and the kids were all excited, learning about that. that went away. i wish i knew, but one thing for hereis that you are hosting this meeting. it will be a cooperative effort in getting that message across. >> one of the issues that we've is how clever and sophisticated they are. one of the issues that marv raises is the internet. to have martye from the national association of the pharmacy. in addition to the cartels and organized truck -- crime and other organized criminals throughout the world via the medicine internet. how many people have received an ad from the internet pharmacy offering a discounted medicine? virtually everybody. i would ask if marty could share
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the statistics that the national association board of pharmacy has uncovered over the last 10 years about the magnitude of the problem of counterfeit medicines of being sold by on -- by road pharmacies being sold to unwitting patients. talked a lot about fake drugs and fake news. about fakeo talk pharmacies. they have been around for a long time. and a supplymand that plays out. it plays out via the internet. of national association boards of pharmacy has been looking at this issue for almost 10 years. a you look at the internet as whole, about 96 -- about 96% of all websites that offer medications on line, 96% are operating illegally. i will talk system,
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about that a little bit and explain how it works. drugs are readily available, coming in in small packages and being ordered online. i am not talking about the dark i amor the deep net, talking about the surface web, the place that we go to every single day and indexed by the search engines. what, i want to explain the national association of boards of pharmacy is. pharmacy boards charged with regulating the practice of pharmacies from the moment the drug exits the manufacturer until it ends up in the hands of a patient. association provides services to those boards of pharmacies, we have national solutions and we run the hub that allows programs to share information between
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states. we also verify online pharmacies. a little bittalk about the trends we are seeing. i do not want to shock people, that people go online to buy things, and it happens all the time. the trend will continue over the number of years. we did not know if consumers were going online to buy drugs. that data had not been established before. the alliance for safe online surveying did a study 500 americans and trying to determine what their behavior was as it related to ordering medications online. what they found was that it was a little bit behind the general your pet fooding online or something else. in threeeing with one americans have already made a purchase for prescription medication online. there is a comfort level.
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over half of those surveyed said that i have done it at or -- i have done it or i plan on doing it for myself or a it caregiver -- or a caregiver. the demand is there in the access is there. i want to talk about that the next slide. do you have it? i do not need it i will tell you what is going on. the fda commissioner has come out as early as last week, -- talking about the availability of drugs online through fake pharmacies and some of the challenges we face in talking about stakeholders together. and talking about how do we attack this particular challenge. what is the issue? if you want to play along at the root or at home, bloat your phones -- in the room or at your home pull out your flow -- your
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use a search engine to search for a fan text. -- and search for this drug. i found this morning was that several of the sites listed on tell, thatnd i can they are illegal. if you take a hard look at some of those sites you will see the same thing. -- it was was a called white tower and why would anyone think that most valid pharmacy, and of these urls have a pharmacy reference in their website but this one did not. this one said it was licensed operating out of canada and did not have to have a prescription.
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that is a red flag. you are a consumer, you go online. you like to purchase medications online. you could be duped by this site, some of these folks are savvy. what is really behind that site or any of the sites that you found? what we find is that we might and some folks in russia eastern europe that have domain name servers in brazil and web hosting services in another country. they are acquiring bank that has underweight can -- -- the acquiring bank has underwritten their status is in the middle east and the drugs are coming from india. from a law enforcement perspective, how do you go about prosecuting that? we have a canadian pharmacy under federal indictment for shipping counterfeit medications into the u.s..
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this is in canada and they are challenges for law enforcement with that relationship in terms of enforcing issues related to this type of activities. add six countries to the mix and it is a hard go. want to point something else out and i keep pointing to your phones. pharmawere to google affiliate program, you will great ways to make money at home easily, cheaply and from the safety of your bedroom. is thaty're explaining i have instructions on how to stand up one of these pharmacy affiliate sites that will drive traffic to the networks that i just defined for you. network.hole and you might say, how to these sites show up on page one? a game the system. the search engine will figure that out and drop them off.
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600 new illegal sites every month. enforcement group called operation pangaea that takes on 3000 to 4000 sites per year. it has been going on 10 years or more. sites, and you take down 4000 and 600 old up each month. -- go up each month. you cannot keep up with this. we have to figure out how to make it less easy to get the drugs. i want to talk about the statistics that we have seen. we have been looking at this issue for a long time. the last 100 websites that we 2000 --t at the end of at the end to thousand 17. half of the websites we looked at were offering controlled substances. that is a typical. in the nine years prior it was around 13%.
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we are seeing this dramatic increase in the availability of controlled substances online. the problem isg, not going away, and it raises more challenges for us in the midst of this epidemic. i do want to point out one more thing, back in 2010 google was find half a billion -- was fined half $1 billion for taking money from fake pharmacies. ater that they required verification to advertise. since then organ -- since then other organizations followed suit. if you see an ad next to a pharmacy site, you are ok. it is the organic search part that we are concerned about and we would like to see changes. this is not just search, it is all the players involved in -- these kindhat
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of actions. towill take all stakeholders make a different -- all stake holders to make a difference. >> thanks. cos" cartel is not frightening enough, the growing opioid crisis should have our attention. all of us, in our own families, our patients and caregivers. we are dealing with this every day. we do not get to put our head underneath the pillow and hope i wake up tomorrow and it will be better. thisr has dealt with strategy and is home, and it does not work. it threatens our existence. tell you that it is not in your family, it may be somewhere down your road. he's sorry horrible car accident the other day and two heroin addicts not off while driving.
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they could've run off -- run over schoolchildren or a family member. it is a symptom of the abuse. -- forou marty for this those frightening statistics. i want to thank you for making this form available. who -- if any buddy -- is there anybody who is going to go home and use this. get the chancen to talk to real seat -- real tv stars. i try every day to call them heroes. because their humility is 10 out of 10, they will say that the columbia's -- the colombian police were the heroes. if you have a question to ask about the subject or did your cat really get killed by customs? javier is it really true about
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your love life in columbia. that is the number one question i get asked. and i am not going to answer it. >> i encourage you in the 10 remaining minutes or longer to ask of these two guys questions because they are amazing agents, amazing gentleman who have had great success and we are fortunate to have them in civil service and still doing their work. i open it up to the room to ask them questions. has things improved in terms -- has the recent peace process improved things in drug trafficking. columbia is a model country with a model please. the peace process, i follow it i just hope that
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the killings and and there is peace. that is my long take on it. i hope it is. people with the bombs in the kidnappings. i do want to say, i also want to side of our public investigation was the colombian national police. i hope that it does not end. colombian -- columbia is a beautiful country with great people. it is just great people, a great country. >> anyone else? are there any additional stats that they could take to make it easier for the da to do ?ts job in combating fentanyl >> congress has introduced a
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number of bills and recently to disrupt the flow of opioids and pain medicines to unwitting patients. is there anything else that the dea and others can be doing? steve, and you want to talk? act, weith the stop need to increase the ability of border checkpoints to do a better job, to have more of 40 to do checks of everything coming across our border. thatso need to remember there are two borders to our country. we need to remember the northern border and over 100 different points of entry between canada and the united states. we are sorely undermanned. cdp to do a see -- huge job. we need to talk about the u.s. postal service. it was mentioned at the beginning of today's briefing
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that we are seeing thousands of packages coming through and there is no tracking data in place. we were conducting another interview earlier today and we were asked why did the postal service have a pass on this. i do not think they have a pass, they have become so busy and our public is not educated as much as they should be as to the issues and the threat we are facing. that is one of the reasons that we're a p or to support congressman and hope -- that is one of the reasons we are up here, to support congressman and for them to take this idea back to their constituents but also to help support the postal system and to do -- and to help them do the job they want to do. they do not have the funding, manpower or authority but they do not have that yet. the stop act introduced by senator portman would acquire the same type of legislation on the front of mailing a package
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via the usps as you see with ups and fedex. that is the electronic tracking that steve talked about. the u.s. postal service wants to do the right thing and they need the authority and resources. if you are required to fill out the same information as you are from fedex and ups, that would provide additional resources and abilities for the postal service to track packages electronically. that is a bill that is in congress and at is something that we should all be aware of and be talking to our own representatives about what is your position on this bill and what we are waiting for. any more questions please. >> what is your experience working with local authorities and how would you compare that withtoday with looking -- working with authorities in mexico and china. >> everybody thinks, how did we get along because of corruption?
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it was not as bad as you think. we worked with an elite group of national police -- the national police officers. these were operational intelligence, so they created their own intelligence and followed up on their own needs. we found them to be extremely credible. after the fact we found out that one person was corrupt during that time. this person that we entrust your lies with every day. i'm glad we did not know at the time. it is ok years later to find that out. not at all. a total during that second manhunt will we were looking for pablo, there were only three low ranking police officers that were caught making phone calls. when we would launch and operation out of the base, there were 600 of us. if you are loading 600 guys on trucks, you stick out when you are going through town. these guys would make phone
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calls that we are getting ready to come out. they did not know specifically what it was because things were put -- compartmentalized. we also had mechanisms in place to discover them. they were arrested and removed. jober can do a better explaining the comparison of the colombians to the mexicans. the chinese, i am not conversant with them. is chinese government implementing programs to do a better job of stopping the of productsfacture coming into united states. i cannot have firsthand knowledge on that. right. steve said it we had trusted guys we worked with. you have worked in mexico, as we know, there is corruption. -- there going to say
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is corruption, there are people who get paid off. in any country, even in the dea, we have had corrupt agents. is your ethics, you're up bringing. the money is out there, the and we have seen some bad situations where the violence. -- theseffic lawyers traffickers it will hang bodies off bridges to show what will happen to you. same timeere at the and we were exchanging a lot of information back in theinforma'. i was in columbia. a lot of loads would be going into mexico. we would call them in. it was a great working relationship. >> i think they both touched on it. is there corruption?
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in every country. instead of focusing on the corruption and the hyperbolic rhetoric, you have to depend on these guys. they have to have your back. you have to have their back. one 14as 114 month -- month period where we seized tons of cocaine. we would say, i have information. we are going here tonight. he would say, why are we going there? i would say, i will tell you in the morning. we would give them the fm frequencies and the tail numbers and sees 4.2 tons of cocaine. that would go into evidence. everybody is here to talk about it. instead of focusing on the hyperbolic rhetoric that never advances the cause, i think everybody goes into law enforcement to do the right thing. conductedposefully surveys in china where we
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conducted chemical analysis, provided the information to the chinese authorities, and they illegal retail locations selling counterfeit medications. i think they want to do the right thing. too many times with focus on a developing nation that may not have the right resources, and we call it corruption. is there corruption? in every agency in every country, unfortunately. instead of focusing on that, let's focus on the good work they are doing. then continue to get good work and get the bad people out. corruption, my wife and small child working mexico. -- work in mexico. -- wer e in mexico. their lives depended on the local law enforcement. we trusted them. we relied on them. we were candid and honest with them. inee of my favorite officers
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exit code allegedly committed suicide with shots to the back ico allegedly mex committed suicide with shots to the back of the head. that tells you something. there were thousands of colombians who died in that war. when we talk about the war on drugs, in those countries it is truly a war on drug. they are putting your life's on the line. that is a good question. >> i want to thank you for all you do. i am a pharmacist from ohio. we own a pharmacy and work with dea quite closely on the prescription drugs side. thank god you are out there on that. we are being asked to speak in the public on fentanyl and carfentanil. holds thetunately record on the number of deaths.
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carfentanil was brought into toledo that was discovered and up to kill every man, woman, and child three times in toledo. we would really love to partner with you, but i think mainly the relationship that pharmacists have with dea is when our guys screw up. i would love to see a partnership form to develop educational materials. i represent the association and want to mobilize our 12,000 pharmacists in will have. problem you are referring to do that. i think the focus needs to be on prevention. i feel sorry for the folks. we have got to start going into the prevention side. we would love to work with you.
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>> just so there is no misunderstanding, all three of us are retiring from dea. we're just trying to support the fight against drugs and narcotics in our country. i guarantee you that dea is ready to partner with you. we have already exchanged business cards. we will be happy to put you in touch with the asac in charge of the state of ohio. >> javier was the special agent in charge for the entire division in sacramento. the diversion group you often see more often than the agents. i'm sure he has an opinion. >> of course, it works. we have to work together, sir, like you were saying. i believe in prevention. we have had a lot of experience. you we work together, and
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are right, sometimes we come in after the fact when something went wrong. we have to do the audits and see what dr. prescribed all of this sort of thing. i think the pill mills are going away. had i was in houston, we hundreds of pill mills, illegal doctors where you would have a lot of people walking in. i have never seen a security guard at a doctor's office. it was all caps. it was about -- cash. it was about getting the prescription. you would see license plates from louisiana. i had to learn it the hard way. no more. , butere are a few they have really cut back. they have knocked it down in florida especially. the doctors involved with the pharmacists only carrying
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oxycontin in the entire pharmacy. he writes a prescription, and it is out the door with it. it is a regular shop operation. those have been closed down because they were medicare and medicaid funded primarily. >> the problem is that just last read aboutay have it, in stamford, connecticut, the police department hit a house that had to 500 pound pill -- two 500 pound pill presses in it. the judge in the bail hearing said there is enough carfentanil in that house to kill half the population in stamford, connecticut in that house. i'm not really sure how that is different from the bill nelson javier is- pill mills
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talking about. they friend of mine found there were respirators at every location for the people making this stuff to wear so they did not just eye from inhalation. it is virtually impossible to communicate to you the fear we have. ittleis a very conny l connecticut village. i have never used that word in public before. i apologize if i used it incorrectly. this is not a problem we can hide from. here getting ready to wrap us up. let me thank steve and javier. they canceled a meeting with piers morgan to be here today. their sacrifice and contributions cannot be measured. thank you. [applause]
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this is like an advertisement for dea, but later this month there will be another national takeback day for prescription medicines where the public can take our narcotics that we no longer want in the household, and we can throw them in a bin control by law enforcement, and they will be destroyed. i don't remember my dates well. .gov, and thedea dates are on there. >> there is one more thing we did not touch about today. responders,of first policemen or emergency people, ambulance people, whoever it happens to be, because of the powder form of the fentanyl is so deadly, you inhale it, and we have had more than one, a lot of
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responders have gone to the emergency room because of the fentanyl overdose they have obtained from just busting into a lab that is making them. those people have to wear protective gear, i would think, to make any kind of contaminant of another counterfeit product. the last thing is the counterfeit problem now with fentanyl and all caps if it's, i don't -- all counterfeits, i don't care if it is a brand name product, it is becoming transnational. these are transnational criminal organizations. these are not just one operation. even the canadian ones are transnational. the last one that was busted not too long ago was not even housing in canada. it started out in ottawa.
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i contacted their board of pharmacy and asked them is there a pharmacy licensed to this address? they said no. they looked at it, it was a worn-out building. there was nothing there. it was just a po box. the pharmacy was located in panama. the drugs were coming out of china. when it came to you, it came directly to you probably through the bahamas. i believe that is where it was coming through. many countries involved. i want to thank you all for being here and for those people that traveled today, please drive carefully. i wish you back. we will have another one of these next year. hopefully, there is better news. thank you so much. i am sure the panelists would be willing to stay a little longer
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and talk one-on-one if you want to chat with them. thank you. take care. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2018] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit]
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>> facebook founder and ceo mark zuckerberg is on capitol hill today and tomorrow to discuss how facebook has handled user data. he will be before the senate judiciary committee and commerce committee today. you can see that live on c-span3, on her website,, and listen with the free c-span radio app. cases,ay on landmark brandenburg v. ohio. brandenberglarence was convicted of hate speech under ohio law. the supreme court unanimously ruled that state law piloted his first amendment right. our guest is the head of the seniord katie fallow, a
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fellow at columbia university's first amendment institute. watch landmark cases monday. #landmarkcases. follow us @cspan. we have a link to the national constitution center's interactive constitution on our website and the landmark cases podcast at arkcases. >> now a conversation on u.s.-north korea relations with former joint chief of staff chair mike mullen, including victor cha. this is about an hour.


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