tv A Higher Loyalty Roundtable Discussion CSPAN April 23, 2018 6:19pm-7:21pm EDT
limitations on the removal from office of a special counsel appointed by attorney general. that hearing starts at 10:00 a.m. tuesday and will be on c-span3. morning, pretzel lake city utah for the 50 capitals tour and utah governor gary herbert will be our guest starting at 9:30 a.m. eastern. last week c-span held a discussion on the impact of former fbi director james comey's book. maryland them credit representative john former deputy assistant attorney general, victoria thompson and this hour-long event.
>> victoria thompson is a high-profile lawyer in washington and representative jamie raskin is a democrat from maryland and a member of the jerry committee -- judiciary committee. with are your impressions of james comey and his public service? >> let's start with james comey the man, because that was interesting to me. i never met him and i don't know him. in the book, he comes off as boy scouto is very like in terms of his respect for rules and the rule of law. the first several chapters of bullies hatred and how he was bullied as a kid. it wasn't big and tall until he got out of high school. you could see how there could be
a coming character clash and collision between him and donald trump, who affects the style of a believe frequently. comey doesn't like bullies. personality flaw -- there's a second moiety is this he is aware of that he writes sanctimonious, and he is by the book. rub you the runway when you see him making certain decisions that are very questionable, as when he decided to go public with the idea that there were more emails found and he was going to reopen investigation into hillary clinton two weeks before election. and that is what caused a storm of protest among democrats. so we can get into the legality of that -- but he sex me as a decent person and one who is
clearly overcast and dumbfounded by the trump presidency and donald trump as a man. he caught the presidency a forced fire -- and there is funny parts in the book where he reports different things that donald trump says. he clearly has no respect for the man's intellect, and less respect for his character and virtue. the running theme is that trump wanted to make sure first that he was not going to pursue investigation to michael flynn about his life and connections with the russians and his contacts. and to come and more decisively, was trebes concerned that reports that a dossier would come out about trump's contacts with russian -- alledged activities that enticed him into engaging. trump aremey and opposites of each other.
he clearly sets up the book in such a way to frame a contrast. >> do you find the book convincing? >> entirely convincing of the facts. . yes someone who was zealous about telling the truth. it is a thin book, there's not a lot of analytical or theoretical depth to it. he tries to show more self reflection, and truly about the hillary stuff, is extremely nervous. essentially what he says is, he felt he had an obligation to reveal that they were going to go after congressman weiner's laptop, and to go after those emails. and to make it public despite there were doj regulations disfavoring of the city strongly in that election period. generally because nothing was found, and he thought was clear hillary clinton was going to become president, and the
subtext was he didn't want to become responsible for that. and he felt he needed to tell the world that they were reopening the investigation and there might be more them is that could change the outcome of what he had announced earlier in d of, which was the en investigation. prosecutors. decide there is no grounds for prosecution, it will say we are not prosecuting. they will launch into an hour-long dissection of the motives of the person and how howed by judgment and carelessness. and struck me as bizarre, this is speaking as a constitutional law professor that he would entertain such in-depth third section of hillary clinton. he seemed not to be responsible for hillary clinton winning. in the process by space so much attention to politics, he may have become partly responsible in, and as the
underlying impulse of the book. say, i didn't do this deliberately to make trump president. it is almost as if he wants to blow the whistle on trump that he feels implicated. >> council, your opening statement. >> out to make the point some people don't miss it, comey did not say he didn't want to be responsible. for whoever was president he said i thought hillary was going to be president and i wanted to make sure it was legitimate and people found that about this investigation after was there might be a problem if i hadn't forward.t going back -- this sits in the crawl of comey's personality. bullies are so bad, and
what does he do in college? and wents somebody along with the gang and everybody. he says i wanted to be a part of the gang, and he bullied and trashed somebody's room. that to me is the theme of all of what he says in here. political henot does all kinds of things that are political. he says i am not able he and i hate bullies, and he became a bully when it was suited to his interests. that is the central thing that i see in the book. also, you said he was a little bit holier than thou? reason he is called cardinal comey. when he was at the justice department, and lawyers disagreed with them -- lawyers disagree all the time, and to look at the disagree are and say, your moral comcast is askew. people out there did not appreciate that attitude.
you know james comey inner circles? him but i have not worked -- i know the stories you hear because i lift some of them. i have only met him, and not worked with him. >> is the book convincing to you? is.ome of it there is a whole segment on ibby, and he did not do the facts well in that version. it could have been carelessness, but he didn't know what the facts were. >> i want to read this quote from the book and get your impressions. you are at the justice department in the winter hear from you. in having tension political leaders about the justice department because the justice muston of their sta be even handed.
>> i think one of the most underrated and best attorney general's that ever was, and i remember when smith was asked to go to a luncheon, and a stuff people set it up, and during the luncheon, was at do something for somebody was under investigation. he got up and left a luncheon and, there were a bunch of people who were in trouble for even setting up this luncheon without knowing what it was about. -- can be a political person he was ronald reagan's personal lawyer. but, you get into the justice department, you better be straight. i have never seen a justice department knows there that went after anything with issues. we rolled eyes a lot when you issues.- but it was antitrust cases.
but it was issues, it wasn't about personality. wasn't going after somebody. that was back in the over hoveover days. maybe we should engage in the point about pulling, you are right that identified the story, which comey tells where he dishes in the style of rousseau's concessions. he says i always hated bullies, and i let myself down the most when i was in college and i was part of a scene where we were basically ridiculing and harassing a kid on our floor. sayaises that himself to this is something that i hate and i am is shamed about that i was ever a part of it. i assume he the present that as
a revelation that somehow you are puncturing his hypocrisy. he raised that himself that he said all of us can be drawn into bowling, and what we need to counter is the political systems are bureaucracies are presidencies that are based on a bullyingrinciple -- principle. he strikes me as an anti-bully. he is a bit impressed by his own moral stature. >> more than that, not a bit. morality,sted in his and is not the worst thing that you can say. to somebody i would prefer sect ammonia's over the trail to the wife and other sins are vices that are certainly worse than second money -- sanctimony. >> when i hear the comey says, well, when loretta lynch called
the matter not a criminal investigation -- it wasn't worth the fight, i can't imagine saying accepting that. i cannot when i was ever there. political, and then he does all these political things. >> i agree with that. what's the importance of day not the legal standard, but there are points he makes concessions. whole them was during the anthony weiner episode where he decided he had to go public two weeks before the election with the idea there might be other emails found. and there weren't. >> back up to july. >> and trump fired them, and pope's were all over that too. that by saying i fired them over the trump investigation. >> bill clinton had a chance
meeting with loretta lynch days before hillary was supposed to be interviewed. i don't know -- if you were in the justice department, i know you are a unconstitutional lawyer, but that is appalling to me. and in his book -- are you kidding? i would have called in that detail and say, tell me how this happened -- this chance meeting, and white you are directing people not to take photographs? that sets up the july 5 press conference. and again, i am a pop is a former justice department -- even though he has a law degree, use the investigator. no chief investigator decides who should be prosecuted and who isn't we prosecuted. deposition was contrary to any rule i know. >> you and i agree he went
overboard in laying out his condemnation of hillary clinton when all he needs to say is we are not proceeding. >> he didn't say that. it is a screwed up justice department. loretta lynch said she is and then theelf, it upset -- but come about all of that and all yet to do is say i am making a recommendation to the deputy attorney general because loretta lynch is wishy-washy. he didn't do it and he did not follow procedures because he thought only he could save the world. the october -- if he had done the first, he didn't have to do the second one. >> at most you could have said
no ahead under the investigation of the extreme else found, and if there is reason to believe that the investigation needed to be reopened and there was some problem there, then he could go to congress and say i misspoke there may be reason to go ahead and opened a criminal investigation to indict ms. clinton. but he came back and the anthony weiner emotional nothing, and he did this press conference and the potential it throughout the clinton campaign for nine or 10 days the last few weeks of the campaign. that is why democrats were so outraged. not bedemocrats should too outraged because the whole comic was nothing i have ever heard in the just department. he opened it in july of 2015 and he says later, i didn't open a -- july 2015cause was a whole year of investigation. so when many of them,
you don't open a grand jury, then you have no subpoena power. the prosecutor of negotiating -- weitnesses and people look at immunity if you just give up your computer. he allowed hillary clinton to come out and say, i deleted thousand of my you mouse. you never, ever do that, when you say you want evidence, you get the evidence. if there is a question, yet the person who is gained allotments over to give them all to a court or to some mitchell party. she got to delete them so nobody could see them so they could test if they were verifiably personal stuff, and you say nothing was on the wiener emails. there were you mouse on anthony -- there werep
emails on anthony weiner's laptop. i cannot recognize this as an investigation. >> when james comey writes about that in a higher, loyalty to see present a strong document to you? am a former justice department person and prosecutor, and he says this is what i did. i taught english before i went to law school and i can say the writing is well done. and he may have a good editor, that is the best thing i could say about the book. he doesn't explain. this isn't itinto reason to go into a grand jury. the get out the trump people are treated. they go into a lowers office and take documents. paul manafort's home was broken into by law enforcement.
his wife was pulled out of bed, naked. there is very different standard going on. coming with disagree with that considers no factual predicate logic grand jury at that point. they had all of the evidence. >> the problem of that you mail server, better predicate. >>, am not following that point you need a factual predicate. not an accusation. >> like russian collusion? >> that's be specific. collusion is not a crime, lying to the fbi is a crime. basement emails in her on unclassified machinery. whatever it was. 794 of lying.
the trump organization used private servers also to engage. >> classified information? >> we don't know if it is until we launch an investigation. >> they knew it was classified. >> it feels like old news to me. >> as you both know, james comey is on a media tour and appeared on "the view. " >> i want to believe you are not a political person, but you write about how you are on the verge of tears, saying are going to miss robot and you are dreading the next four years of trump. you said something city area i am athis morning -- republican has issues with trump, and he is not effective of my party as a whole. i want to know your politics, and a lot of the things you are saying are highly political.
i don't understand what you gain by trying to clear the desk hereby and things like this up. >> i don't think of it as my politics. i think of it as my values. with the women's much she is set on election night best and wiping the politics now? no disrespect, but your take on republican party, i want to know your views on national security. >> but i was asked about it. [applause] i get that. that is a good question, republicans are thinking that, but in the book i am telling a story of the decisions. >> amtech about your interview this morning, ego driven and trumpism reflect that, we sound like a political commentator to me. >> i don't care whether people support republican or democrat, am not either, i don't care who they support.
i have the conversation will start with values and come to policy second because we're guns,to fight tabout but we are a collection of values and does what unites democrats and republicans. [applause] >> congressman rask, when you think of what comey had to say? and is a a good answer growing division without the republican party. get the boy scouts in the report can party who believe in the rule of law. despite what come said, saying he is not political, has been republican all his life until his close encounters with donald trump. now he says he is independent or what have you. he is cleared yet not voted for barack obama ever, but he grew more impressed over time with barack obama's leadership and his intellect and character. is the for simms fishing in history that produced nobody going to jail.
you can't name a cabinet member of the obama and the session who went to jail or under a -- >> can i see some think about that? talk about it another time as i don't want to go off on that, i want to stick to comey. comey has been drawn into politics, precisely because president trump tried to demand a personal loyalty test from him. that is what the book is about. trump said i expect loyalty and i want your loyalty, to which comey, in classic comey fashion said i will give you honesty. loyalty, said i want to come he i will give you honest loyalty, which is ambiguous. is that i don't owe you loyalty, owe loyalty to the rule of law.
he said i'm going to say the trump presidency is a threat to america and set in the book that this is a forest fire. assault the constitution and how the fbi as government itself. is not doing it for partisan reasons, he, like attorney general sessions and the vast majority of the people at fbi are republicans. is not a partisan plot. >> seems to me that we have to hings comey did in politics. and then bring up the irs investigation, in a can tell you that the lawyer for most -- many of the victims, were never interviewed by the fbi. how is that an investigation? thank you very much, loretta
lynch, or eric holder, it was 2013. when mitchell was contacted by that date to interview a victim was after she had been on the hill testifying to investigation was a sham. and then they called her and said we're going to do it. they brought someone there who was harassing the victim from the irs. about hising investigation, and i don't see the honesty there except where it is convenient for james comey. talk about the conversation at the white house, you don't know was said. you weren't there. >> is said the trump didn't demand loyalty from the director? >> that is how donald trump talks. >> this is how he talks
possibly, but there is a growing division with the republican party. there are those people like mccabe and comey who believe in the rule of law and believe in official neutrality. roy cohn andthe donald trump went there, described as a mafia family. you show absolute loyalty to the boss. anybody can lie within the circle. thought roy cohn was a kennedy lawyer? >> just like your client. he was lying, wasn't he? >> would you like to hear about the case? comey didn't get it right. comeywrites about james
writes about scooter libb becoming if you would like to switch the conversation -- every singered klaus and she had to be covered in five years, and she was not, so there was no underlying crime whatsoever. the person named was richard armitage. , and fitzgerald knew that from day one. and yet they pursued the criminal system for almost five years of karl rove and scooter libby. on go far down the weeds, but a reporter said he spoke to them about matt gruber and judith miller. met uber's reports do not support him, and judith miller recounted. she recounted because patrick fitzgerald misled her about understanding her own notes undercover and she
repented and said that i hope an innocent man, and she came out and the plotted. is not somebody who committed a crime. is ideally what pardons are for. it is essential. >> we learned in the book that scooter libb be at one point was mark rich's attorney. >> and as with the prosecutor is about because james comey and patrick fitzgerald when the sentences should of new york when marc rich got his pa rdon. after getting lots of many from mark rich's former wife. and is avestigation, constitutional lawyer that will give you pause. always held the position that it is undeterred authority. >> few bright the president for a pardon and pay the president a million dollars?
>> she gave hundreds of thousands of dollars. i know because i had a representative on the case. >> i don't think it is unfettered authority and you cannot achieve a pardon by corrupt means. >> when james comey tells the story of scooter libb the his y, you-- scooter libb agreed with the book? >> he perjured himself in london he was pardoned. he went through the criminal process and was found a jury of his peers by a reasonable doubt that he lied. >> he acquitted michael brennan judith miller. yet got a problem there. >> they went to the court and reversed the verdict? >> you don't do that. appeals reversed
and give him back his law license. >> the criminal conviction was reversed? >> get this license taken away -- he had his license taken away. >> were working for a convicted perjurer. >> for somebody who respects the constitution, shame on you for saying that. >> he was convicted of perjury, wasn't he? >> the chief witness gets them recanted. >> her guy was convicted. give him a fair right, let them have to process. >> to a higher loyalty, this is page 66, james comey writes that washington is a city where everyone seemed to question other people's loyalties and motivations, most often when
they weren't in the room. is that a true statement about washington? >> and look into the political scene. i worked on the hills i know a little, but i went to the justice department and practiced law. my world is lawyering. >> by your active in conservative circles. >> you can see have a philosophy but i don't do national conventions or things like that. >> with about washington being a city where everyone questions other people's loyalties? especially when they are not with them? >> that a distinguished official from washington, and is a big city with hundreds of thousands of people or the last population of people living in a couple city are not representative of their own legislature, just something of a scandal. severe that should be addressed.
but the power elite turns on each other and goes after them -- that seems to be a pretty fair assessment of the way they treat each other. desert republicans attacking, and james comey's is a republican. thiseen a devoted -- the or for turning coming as given his life to law-enforcement and are try to trash his career. robert martin was a war hero and lifelong republican, but because he is outside of the mafia family as comey describes it of the truck menstruation, dare try to destroy him. is a work position of defending these rule of law republicans, so they because they're trying to destroy them. >> congressman, yesterday in the arena for reelection. what you think of james comey's take on several different elected officials and several different presidencies critical
of dick cheney, alberto gonzales, jeff sessions, george w. bush. a lot of officials don't add up for him. was ifhe last segment, you are a law enforcement guy and we don't want to hear your reflections and reactions on all the politicians and what they're doing. i think it is a sign of the times and count on trump has died in rebutting down into template reality where people are making fun of each other's looks and making fun of each other's dress and making personal comments about people. it is kind of embarrassing for the country where you have gone. he doesn't have to go there and he is clearly anger with donald trump. he gets it in through lots of humorous episodes. there's one scene in the book he is invited for a one-on-one dinner with the president, and he talks about
how he got to see president obama twice over the period of many years boat trips, he had four or five calls because trump was concerned about the pee and russia prostitute comments coming out, and he wanted to make sure that get was what to do anything they can to stop the leaks, although comey explained it wasn't a leak because it wasn't topic document, it was a avid document circulated. they had dinner together, and it is a funny story because they have little nameplates there that had been hand-drawn. and the president system and he was showing off to comey and saying, these are hand drawn. and comey says to him, calligraphy, and president look at him puzzled and said, hand-drawn, as if he did not understand the work calligraphy. he gets slights in their about trump, who obviously irritated him a lot.
and insecta minus waste tented what his life try to stop bullies and people who traveled the rule of law, people who don't respect the rule of law,. felix to bully and intimidate people. there's a sea of litigation engulfing the president from important stars and portable models as well as people in the political spectrum. >> you are bringing up the pee tapes and prostitutes as another example of comey's tortured faking. i don't know if it is in the book or in interviews talking -- my husband would be upset if there were allegations with prostitutes and so forth. it did it enters my to do so, and he said if there is a chance my wife believes this, i really need to get it straightened out. comey criticizes him sank, my
afe -- i thought it was caring comment about i don't want my wife to hear these things. comey structured thinking process is, there's a 1% chance, that must be weird. >> read that passage, because it struck me too. for all my fosters a 0% chance that patrice would think i would peeing on each other in moscow. and we have to go into this document, and comey explained that this was not late in the government document, and it came from other sources and from a british intelligence officer. >> and from hillary clinton's campaign that was paid for.
>> alleged. >> did opposition research on donald trump -- had been taken over by the dnc. >> same thing. >> it is not the same thing. at nothing to do with the dossier. people going to the campaign opposition research. there is a reference credited in this book, and the quote from martin luther, here i stand, i can do no other. did you see that? the that begin impression on you? >> been what's made an impression whatsoever. -- i likeother 1 reading the quotes for me, but i don't follow along with him. >> he wrote his senior thesis
when he graduated but jerry follow you talked about two different kinds of religions. and when is a religious philosophy that cause people to moral imperatives and tried to act morally the best they can in an imperfect world. versus the exploitation and mutilation of religion, which is what he says jerry falwell did and exploitation of religion. and he cited himself in the other direction and can see almost from his college thesis the growing split within the republican party. those who would basically say and do anything to win cap 13 on top. want toe who didn't adhere to a more old-fashioned idea of the rule of law. >> you're saying only republicans got there and fight. please, don't do that. there's a lot of really good republicans and democrats out there and an honest job. is not to discount.
i'm talking about the conflict comey sets of the dream what he saw as an old-fashioned kind of republican principle, and what he described as the mafia family model. thelet's go back to th view. said yetent trump russia on his mind in having the decision to fire you. he recently tweeted this morning that actually the russian thing wasn't a factor. he said james comey is the worst fbi director was not fired because of the phony russia investigation. we have it on tape. >> i do believe you were fired? >> i don't know. i took him at his word when i read that he said avidly to the russians the next day in the
oval office, so i took him at his word. today's tweet,, i don't follow him on twitter but i have seen the tweet. , both of those things cap the true and that it was just part of the problem i'm bringing up. the matter is the president is not committed to truth is a central america and value. i don't know what to make of it. >> victoria, what did you hear? >> there are those of us in washington's bidding on the white house door sync get rid of comic because he should not be fbi director and we did not trust him. from day one. my criticism of the president is that he did not find them and they want. who was not from the swamp what not to do so. i caught a dear friend of mine who had to work with comey, and i said, watch your back, because he is continuing. we would have never support
them, basically because of what he did with the hillary investigation. coming out in violating justice department rules. i thought it was a disgrace the way he handled the whole thing. whether it was working for us are working for you. fbi,en you work for the were not working for democrats or republicans. are hopefully working for the iraqi people and government. that is the bipartisan attitude that comey is rightfully acting against. byre are a lot of problems, think his trapped erected against i get that if you are you or yourctor, personal loyalty to the president of the united states instead of the rules of law and constitution. >> priscilla loyalty to the president? g loyalty to america. standing up to the front of the
ying herbs that the united states gives me flutters. well, but freezing as the james comey come across to you as a and is that important in this city? >> i don't know that he was. rod rosen stein -- rosenstein is a very good insider. i thought he had poor judgment, tortured reasoning. i thought of several of those instances today. i just didn't think he was a good f.b.i. director. and nobody who worked with him trusted him. people at the justice department thought he was a drama queen kind of person. he would say traumatic things. d i didn't see -- think he
should do that. >> this is a quote from james comey, i can't believe with such a supple mind got elected president. >> president obama is about the only president who doesn't get criticized in a higher loyalty. >> he talked about how he had very little communication. the f.b.i. director is not an intern for the white house who can be told that he owes 100% throilt the president because he's got a law enforcement job to do. that's an essential difference athoritarian state. -- authoritarian state in a liberal democratic state we have due process and law enforcement that is trying to uphold the
values of the society, the rule of law at the same time that it pursues justice. you know, credit where credit's due. he didn't vote for obama. he's a republican. but he thought that obama ran a very honest administration in that perspective. within a few days of trump being president he was caught in the meat grinder as what he describes the republican crime family. >> do you agree that president trump should have fired james comey on day one? >> no, i mean, it's a 10-year appointment. i think there had only been one removal ever before in the middle of a 10-year term and that was some -- >> the f.b.i. to build a fence or something. >> so there was an ethical problem. but otherwise we should stick with that idea. goes ar term means he
beyond that a president could serve which means eight years and it helps hold the nonpolitical nature of it. people at the department of justice didn't respect comey. i think he was very well respected. you know an inside group. but if you speak to the f.b.i. agents that i get to know at the judiciary committee, they love the guy and they thought that he really upheld the basic values -- >> there's been one assistant director after another calling out comey's conduct and it's in the book and in the tour being one of the biggest critics is comey ston, why is writing a book when there's some things that he's involved in? >> he says there's no classified information -- >> prepublication review board. >> but look, i mean, the trump
administration and their champions are the last people who should be saying that public officials or former public officials shouldn't be speaking out of -- f.b.i. -- ssistant the point i'm making is donald trump sacked him, he fired him. he's go the right to speak. obviously, he's mad. those who say we have to stand up for the rule of law, "a higher loyalty" is what his book is called. those are two different value systems. >> nobody is complaining that he doesn't have the first amendment right, it's a matter of protocol and policy about speaking out when investigations are still going on that he was involved in. >> do you have an issue with the former director of the f.b.i.
writing essential lay tell-all book? >> depending on the timing and what he's talking about. i mean, there are still investigations going on. that's what the former assistant directors are criticizing him for. >> i think it's unbecoming. this is the political culture we live in during the trump era. everything is immediately dragged into this celebrity culture. >> trump -- >> you know, what i wouldn't run away from it. trump seems to have driven him crazy with anger about the way that he is maligning public officials and trashing the rule of law. and he's mad. there's no doubt about it. there are people who want to read an interesting book at his former boss, check this out. when ot of things went on he went to call him an anthrax terrorist. that made people really upset.
ox ne went after katr and new york and rebuked by the court of appeals for having pursued him. there are things that go on unmentioned in the books by the way. so we have a lot of things -- you're wrong. > i -- one of the things i liked a lot about the book is that he said we've got to be realistic about the real history about the justice department have been. he kept on his december ack copy of the f.b.i. memo which allowed outrageous ly wiretapping of dr. martin luther king. and every day i would force myself to look at it to remember that there's a lot of power here and can be used in an abusive fashion.
>> i have to wonder why he allowed the ficea court to verify a dossier to spy on americans. >> this is really getting into the weeds. but i'm going to challenge your telling of the facts here. for one thing it goes to a fisa court. and you have to demonstrate to a judge that there is reason to issue -- >> i've done them, jamie. >> don't leave the impression that that somehow is some kind of -- that he can make on his own. >> don't tell the court that -- >> ok. until every event all of the investigation about russia began before there was any evidence coming from the dossier. the dossier is just extra. it's just icing on the cake. nobody's relying on the dossier. we've got criminal convictions. 've got pleas based on other
people's concessions of dozens .nd dozens of contacts in trump >> tell me one. >> michael flynn. convicted. >> mccabe sent -- >> you know, this is why we can't get any place because even if you got a conviction if they discredit the conviction and they say so and so lie they wouldn't never accept -- >> i think you're going to find things that come out about that. >> manafort? >> i don't even know -- i don't know him. but they're financial crimes that were committed before he even met donald trump. that's why i'm poo-pooing this stuff. >> i want to make sure we get this quote in. this is from page 172. don't know if -- actually leona blakey our producer pointed this out because i missed it completely.
pardon me. this is about loretta lynch. at that time we were alerted to some materials that had come into possession of the united states government that came from a classified source. the source and content of that material remain classified as i write this. had it become public, the unverified material would undoubtedly be used on the opponent to cast doubt on the attorney general's independence in connection with the clinton investigation. >> i'm glad you brought that up. i'm not a big fan of loretta lynch. i would stick up for her. but how can you sit there and say i've got information about you jamie but if people heard about it it would be really bad. i think that's appalling that that was in the book. >> yeah, that peeks my interest but there's so little detail -- >> exactly. >> loretta lynch was not happy.
>> and he clearly doesn't like loretta lynch. >> he didn't want to be hugged by her. that was one. >> yeah, and he didn't want to be hugged by the president either because he wanted higher loyalty as well as attorney general. >> well, i don't know if we have time go after that one scene after he did all this stuff that she would be opening in october opening the investigation again that she called him into her office and then she gave him a big hug which he's very uncomfortable with. i guess he's not a hugging guy. and said congratulations or that was a great job or praised him with going up and down with the hillary thing. and then when he left, he said just pretend like you got chewed out. i just thought that was bizarre, you know? if i were loretta lynch, i would be out there. >> any comment? >> i mean, there's clearly this perform active dimension to
public office that comes through where different people are putting forth a pretense when they're doing something else behind the scenes. i think the fear criticism of him is that he is sanctimonious and he is overly convinced of his own rightness. when he decided to tell the world two weeks before the presidential election that there's more potentially damning information coming out about hillary clinton through this scandalous anthony wiener affair it turns time-out be not guilty but in the meantime everybody's left to think with this pregnant pause we're going learn all that stuff. and certainly hillary clinton blames that single when her big lead in the polls vanished. be that as it may, he should have been thinking what's going to happen in the election. he said hillary was so far ahead i thought she would become president. all that stuff should be
irrelevant. as a prosecute tor you should be looking at the faxes of the case and whether they merit a prosecution and whether you should be going public. that's an extraordinary and extreme thing to do to tell the story of what we have found some other evident and we might be going forward with it. i think she's rightfully mad. i think it was a terribly strategic misjudgment to his part. and led a lot of people to question his legal judgment. having said that, i do think he at least tpwhreeves the rule of law. he thinks he was right about hat, although he is wrong. >> he violates it ever so often. e i -- >> i agree with you on that. >> are they rallying around a bit around james comey? >> i don't think so. i don't think. so i mean, a lot of them are still mad about what he did. we do think that donald trump is
completely transformed the culture of law enforcement. so you have people in law enforcement who come under attack by people in their own political party because they're to wmbinging the line with the president and -- towing the line with the president. and their wife goes to the women's march. there are millions of people who went to the women's march but they want to sell polarized and fax nalized america that you n't even lead a -- factionalized america that you can't even lead a normal life. -- -- look, comey should not be hounded and vilified because he stood up for the rule of law against donald trump. >> lanny davis is blasting him. lanny is a long-time clinton supporter. >> victoria, you're in the legal circles here in washington.
you respected both republicans and democrats? >> i have. i have as vigorously. is lanny davis a friend of yours? >> oh, sure. i mean, we nolanny from way back. >> now, what is that before we run completely out of time -- what is the status of you and your husband joe degeneva working for donald trump. >> there wasn't really a conflict. but the way the press treats a whole lot of stuff because we represented three people who -- been by more it was all it could be a distraction. so that's -- that's -- we talked to him. and we could council him on many matters. >> if the president and robert mueller play as pretty large role in a higher loyalty as well, if the president fired robert mueller, would that be a mistake in your view? >> he's not going to fire robert
mueller. >> but what it be a mistake if he would? >> of course. i get tired of the press making it an issue. putting microphones in everybody's -- >> it is coming from things that president trump is saying about rosenstein and muller. >> rod rosenstein is a different animal. >> oh, me might fire him. >> no, no, no, i have a question. the congress is after him. republicans in congress. aw can rod rosenstein oversea case where he's a witness? you just don't do that. he enrolled the memo for the president and talked to the president about firing comey. and now he's overseaing the investigation that is looking into whatever was behind the firing? now i happen to say it's not as a constitutional scholar but i do argument constitutional issues that again is unfettered, that the president can fire
whoever he wants to. and that's not obstruction. but that's being looked into by muller and how can rodrosenstein overlook that investigation? >> first, i can't resist on what they call the unitary executive point the president can fire anybody. we wouldn't have a civil service in that case. that can't be right as a constitutional proposition and invite us back to talk about that because i would love to dispute that view. in any event if there was any view made here is the suggestion that rosenstein could be fired -- >> i didn't say that. don't put words in my opinion mouth. i said he's not in the same evel as comey. >> and unfortunately, we are out of time. he's a member of the judicial committee. former oria lansing and
reagan department officials. thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you so much for having us. >> facebook -- you're not just handing over things you like when you click on like. it's also aggregating an enormous amount of informs. even if you change your mind and don't go ahead and type it, facebook collects those and analyzes those like why did you not continue typing it? i think the deal that we think we're making is a fairly limited amount of information. survey ity is and the machine that tracks you across the web, across devices, buys information about you from third parties, clicks it together and uses that to target you. >> watch the communicators tonight at 8:00 eastern on
c-span2. announcer: tonight on "landmark cases." des moines independent school district, a case about student free speech in 1965, five students from des moines, iowa wore black arm bands to protest the vietnam war violating local policies. the students challenged the school boards free speech restrictions and the resulting supreme court decision established that the students keep their first amendment rights on school grounds. our guest to discuss this landmark case are mary beth tinker, one of the five students who challenged the des moines school district. she was 13 at the time. after two decades as a pediatric nurse she began working as a free speech advocate for students touring nationals at a speaker in schools and youth centers. and eric jaffy a federal it will
gator with experience at the supreme court including work on -- than 100 cases, a and thomas. rk for justice join the conversation. -- #is landmark cases. the landmark cases companion book, a throing the national constitution center interactive constitution and the landmark cases podcast at c-span.org/landmarkcase. >> c-span's "washington journal" live with policy issues that impact you. coming up tuesday morning, we'll talk about some of the challenges facing current c.i.a. director mike pompeo as he seeks con fir nigse be the next secretary of state. joining us will be eric weinstein of the hudson
institute. and we'll talk about the travel ban. with us will be professor joshua gelvin. and we'll talk about the french president's visit this week. be sure to washington "washington journal" live at 7:00 eastern. join the discussion. announcer: former president george h.w. bush is in a houston hospital in intensive care. he was admitted to houston methodist hospital after contracting an infection that spread to his blood. he is responding to treatments and appears to be recovering according to his office. we'll keep you posted on any developments. french president emmanuel macron and his wife approved in the u.s. he talked about his upcoming