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tv   Public Affairs Events  CSPAN  June 28, 2018 8:00pm-9:01pm EDT

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from the judicial conference of the fourth circuit, live 3:30 p.m. eastern on c-span, announcer: tonight on c-span, christopher wray and rob growth + testifying on the clinton email probe. and debate from the u.s. house on a resolution requiring the justice department to find documents in the rush investigation. later, the american constitution society reviewing the recent supreme court term. -- rod rosenit sign and christopher ray testified on report that focused on the 2016 clinton email investigation.
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days advanceven notice required. andchair of the committee ranking member gave their opening statements and the committee recessed for votes on the floor. this portion is 30 minutes.
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>> members of the media, retreat. we're going to start hearing. hearing.
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good morning. begin the hearing this morning, we need to vote to
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weigh the seven day here in notice requirement. clause a of rule three. the question is whether there is good cause to begin today's hearing less than seven days after it was was noticed. aye. in favor, say i -- >>aye. the clerk will call the role. -- roll. [calling roll]
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>> the gentlewoman is recorded as no.
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we are going to wait another minute or two for the ranking members area -- members. ?re you recording >> mr. johnson votes yes. inquire of theto
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basis of the emergency and cause that has generated this resolution to ignore the regular order of the seven-day notice. it is not an emergency. it is good cause. the gentleman from maryland. >> how my recorded? >> not recorded. >> no. could you state for the record what the good cause is? the fact that we work very hard with these two gentlemen, who i very much appreciate adjusting their schedules to be here. i know the gentleman from new -- the clerk will report he votes no. 17 voted yes, 13 voted no.
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could you continue your sentence? you said the two gentlemen -- >> i am going to first declare that the vote is approved and the notice requirement is waived. now, i am going to recognize myself for an opening statements, and i will begin that statement by saying to rosenstein and ray that i am appreciative of the fact that they have changed their schedules to be here so that we inld have this hearing today a reasonable amount of time after the inspector general's report and testimony before the committee. i would like to acknowledge the president -- the presence of john walsh, who was appointed to
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facilitate the production of documents which were not being produced in a timely fashion. complaints that the situation in my opinion has improved considerably. we have new issues we will address here today. waschurch committee established on a bipartisan basis and shared by frank church in 1975 to review surveillance abuses, including the improper surveillance of an american icon, looking jr., and other prominent -- martin luther king jr., and other prominent individuals. the church committees finding resulted in the foreign intelligence surveillance act.
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secrecyk to balance the of agents with americans civil liberties. we have found ourselves once before in a situation where intelligence agencies violated their oath to uphold and defend the constitution. the agencies exercise their responsibilities in a manner unworthy of officials. often happen because of power. power to influence and collect tositive information and wield surveillance tools in improper ways. that power can and has been abused in the past by individuals at the highest and lowest levels of our government. fortunately, the power of our intelligence agencies are used
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overwhelmingly to protect us. that is the conundrum. we need the agencies. we need them to have the tools and techniques to safeguard our nation. we have to be constantly vigilant to ensure these tools are not manipulated by unscrew bless actors. unscrupulous actors. fbi agents, lawyers, and agents held profound biases against donald trump and in favor of hillary clinton. those on the other side of the aisle maintain this had no effect on one of the biggest investigations, i wonder if the same members would say the same if text messages had turned up to the tune of hillary is a
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oraster, or cursing her stating that parts of the country smell of hillary supporters. these types of comments were originating from people who are the factfinders in the investigation. these profoundly inappropriate comments were coming from the individuals who were making decisions on whether to provide immunity to people who had already lied to investigators and if subjects of a investigation could sit in. these were individuals who were in positions of great power with opportunity to place emphasis on certain facts and interpretations of law. these actions led to complete legal exoneration to everyone involved.
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actions led to exposing at least one classified email to a foreign party that risked serious damage to our national security. amazingly, considering the overwhelming biases, these people were the same who were assigned to investigate the man they hated, then candidate donald trump. reference to the church committee is appropriate because it reveals abuses by individuals, including the fbi director, but it focuses on surveillance abuses. here we face the same allegations, yet in a manner that goes to the heart of our democracy. it is right out of a novel. there are reports of informants that appear more like spies and an application of surveillance powers to collect on a u.s. person once associated with trump's political campaign. but this is not a novel, it is
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really. we're here to understand more about why we now must review law enforcement agencies engaged in activity that appears not only wrong but also illegal. we have a responsibility to the american people to conduct oversight of agencies within our jurisdiction to ensure that agencies operate lawfully. our oversight is only as good as the information we are provided. this oversight has been hampered ofthe fbi and doj lack consistent production of documents. recently,has improved it has felt like pulling teeth much of the time to review documents. we just recently learned that some documents the inspector
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general received have been interpreted by the department of justice to fall outside the first subpoena i ever issued. emails and communications of doj officials have not been produced at all. we have not received any emails between prosecutors working the clinton case. potentiallyreceived enlightening communications between prosecutors themselves, prosecutors and doj management, including former attorney general lynch, or commit occasions between doj and the obama white house. this is unacceptable. particularly because we requested all documents provided other than once pertaining to grand jury material. the doj and fbi are not mentioned in the u.s. constitution.
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the president and congress are. institutions like the fbi and this is not negotiable. we must assure the people -- the agencies under our jurisdiction operate. damage to the fbi idea j reputation is not something any of us desire, but now that both agencies have been on the front pages for so long, we must all work to ensure those stories are able to focus once again on the great men and women performing her own jobs to protect our country. i expect to hear today have the fbi and doj will hold people accountable. i look forward to hearing from
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rosenstein and director ray. nadler? >> the events that led up to this hearing are unacceptable. tuesday, our committee meeting started when our lake, without notice to the minority. you allowed mr. jordan to offer an amendment that was not germane. then you stood at a view in the cameras in the hallway while ms. the maturity offered to overturn the amendment. wednesday you dropped all committee business. meet so the majority can criticize the deputy attorney general to his face about his failure to produce
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documents you know we cannot produce. you will take a break so that we can go to the four -- floor. it is a measure without pretextt and clearly a against a move that the majority has already planned. what is the great emergency that justifies this last-minute hearing? the tired story of hillary clinton's emails, plus conspiracy theories about a special counsel. while we are actively separating families at the border and ripping children from their parents, that did not merit an emergency but meeting by this committee. now thousands of children are still separated and there is no clear plan to reunite them. where's the emergency hearing on
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that issue? russia who interfered in our 2016 elections is actively working to interfere in our next one. our intelligence agencies have informed us. and yet the intelligence agencies have received no instructions from the white house to protect the integrity of our election system. have we scheduled an emergency beating for that -- emergency meeting for that? what about protecting dreamers? what about the supreme courts decision to undermine workers rights? the presidents ongoing conflict of interest? amid other pressing issues? no.
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as with so many issues, this committee stay silent. but on hillary clinton's email, sound the alarm. the outcome of the clinton investigation was not affected by any bias. . the republicans seem desperate to prove there was an anti-trump conspiracy within the fbi, when in fact the evidence shows the opposite. action, the public comments on the clinton octoberation, the decision to reopen the clinton email investigation, it ultimately harmed the candid sisi of clinton -- candidacy of
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clinton. according to the republican memo for today's hearing, today is an opportunity for members to consider the justice department's compliance with the march 22 subpoena. subpoena that was not issued and therefore cannot be enforced. even if it were properly issued, it is boiled down to certain --uments the republican's no the republicans know the doj cannot turn over. documents outlining specific lines of inquiry and the identities of sources still working undercover in the field. that is the whole point. republicans are requesting documents that they know they cannot have.
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they find themselves in possession of sensitive and those documents and up in the possession of the subject of the investigation, namely president trump, and then shortly on fox news. they do their best to undermine the credibility of the department of justice and of the special counsel. they will try to hold mr. rosenstein in contempt. they may argue he must be removed from his role of the special counsel. thatis an investigation has already yielded five guilty pleas and led to the indictment of 20 people so far. the president and some of his closest advisers are under investigation for having indicated in a criminal conspiracy with a foreign power against the united states. that is an emergency.
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the president practically holt ond to lester firedsion when he said he this rush of of staff with trump in -- this russia staff with trump in russia. that is an emergency. this is been a hard week for the majority. i know it must be tempting to change the subject and rally your base with yells of lock her up. but we cannot hide from our responsibility. hide from our constitutional duty to protect our country from foreign interference. hide from our
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responsibility not to interfere with a proper investigation. i ask you to consider this question. when the special counsel's work is complete, when the enormity of what he finds has been laid bare, how will the american people judge her actions today? >> we will stand in recess and return immediately after this vote to hear the opening statements of the general director.
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announcer: when the hearing resumed, rod rosenstein and
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christopher wray gave their opening statements. then they took questions from committee members. this portion of the hearing is just over one hour. >> the committee will reconvene.
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we welcome our distinguished witnesses. you will please rise, i will begin by swearing u.n.. sorry to make you keep standing up, director. to each of you swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god? >> they have answered in the affirmative. rod rosenstein is the deputy internal -- attorney general of the united states. served as the united states district attorney for the state of maryland before being nominated by president trump to
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be deputy attorney general. eighth andy is the the federal bureau of investigation. in 1997 ins career georgia. he served in the office of the deputy attorney general and was nominated by president bush to serve as the assistant attorney general for the criminal division. president trump nominated him to lead the bureau in august of 2017. your entire written statement will be entered into the record. we ask that you summarize your testimony within five minutes. when you have one minute left, the light will turn yellow and one minute later, to read. -- red. then we will open it up for questions. you.stein: thank
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i welcome the opportunity to appear before you. today is not a happy occasion. based on my 30 years of experience, federal law enforcement working with the men ,nd women of law enforcement there is nobody who would be more commuted -- committed. conducted aneral thorough investigation and found some employees deviated from important principles. everyone knew about some of the departures when they occurred, such as discussing criminal investigations. we learn about others through the internal investigation. such as leaking of the news media. people to hold these
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accountable and deter future violations. talk abouty will what the fbi is doing. we're considering other recommendations. we already revised the departments confidentiality policies and emphasized the sensitive information is protected from disclosure. we intend to enforce that principle on our employees and we need to demonstrate respect for it ourselves. a congressional oversight is final to -- vital to democracy. the fbi is managing an extraordinary volume of
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congressional oversight requests. result of president trump's to transparency, the fbi is making an president lee disclosures to congress, including granting access to hundreds of thousands of pages of investigative information and classified documents. the real work is not done in television and it is not all done by me. trump administration officials are talking with your staff every day. they are working overtime with teams of fbi employees to accommodate requests and produce relevant information to this committee. requestsittee production of all documents relevant to the inspector general's review. as you know, the fbi normally declines these requests.
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this time, the department agreed to produce all relevant documents. i understand the universe of potentially relevant documents was in the range of 1.2 millions . only one fraction are relevant. we began production even before the inspector general finished confirmed, after we the investigation was substantially complete. timebi struggled for some with the scope and volume of production. some of your colleagues brought to my attention that the , thation policies relevant information was being concealed. i looked into it and understood. attorney inthe u.s. chicago to take charge of the project. he is with me today.
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he brings experience at handling large document productions in the private sector. arranged a production process that seems to be working well. i understand people still have concerns about the speed of production. those concerns are mistaken. i have devoted almost 30 years to the service of my country. my line of work, we keep an open mind. underlegations are made oath and supported by credible evidence. respect.everyone with you and i are the beneficiaries and temporary trustees of a remarkable experiment in self-government.
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we represent the people of the united states. president trump appointed us. the senate confirmed our nominations and we sworn oath and accepted responsibility for helping run the department of justice. that oath requires us to make controversial decisions. so here is the advice i give the department of justice employees -- faithfully pursue the departments law enforcement mission and the administration's goals in a manner consistent with laws and policies. be prepared to face criticism. it is part of the job. but ignore the tyranny of the news cycle and make honest alwaysns that will withstand fair and objective review. our departments employees work diligently every day to keep america safe. is neverheir good work
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the subject of any congressional hearing. tois a tremendous privilege work in an organization that seeks the truth and serves the law. the doj is not perfect. we will keep working to make it better. we welcome your constructive assistance. thank you. >> thank you. i want to thank you both for getting here. director wray: good morning. toppreciate this opportunity discuss the fbi's response. take the report very seriously and we accept the
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findings and recommendations. we are doing a whole number of things to adjust the recommendations and we are determined to emerge from this experience better and wiser. is entrusted with a lot of authority and we are subject to close oversight. can make the fbi stronger and the public safety or -- safer. four months we have been working with your committees to answer questions and produce or make available to you and your staff over 880,000 pages. have nowwe substantially complied with the majority of the committee's subpoena, we are determined to get through the outstanding items and we have increased staffing on this project even further. in the past week, we have had
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approximately 100 employees working day and night, dedicated to this project to collect and produce thousands of additional pages. although the ig report did not find any evidence of political bias impacting the investigation , the report did identify errors of judgment. these were not the best choices. i would like to summarize the steps we are taking to address this. we will hold employees accountable for misconduct. we have referred it to the fbi's independent disciplinary arm. complete,process is we will not hesitate to hold people accountable.
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we are making sure every employee understands the lessons , starting atort the top so we don't repeat mistakes identified in that report. third, we're making sure that we have the policies, the procedures and the training needed for everyone to understand and remember what is expected of all of us. that includes drilling home the importance of objectivity and of avoiding even the appearance of personal conflicts or political bias, ensuring that recusals are handled correctly. making all employees aware of our new media policy and making clear we will not tolerate noncompliance. ensuring we follow doj policies about public statements on ongoing investigations and uncharged conduct and ensuring we adhere strictly to all policies and procedures on the use of fbi systems, networks and
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devices. i have also directed our new associate deputy director, the number three official in the fbi, to lead a review of how we staff, structure and supervise sensitive investigations so that we can make sure that each one is conducted to our highest standards. the ig report makes clear that we have got important work to do. but i do want to emphasize that this report is focussed on a specific set of events in 2016 and a small number of employees connected with those events. nothing in this report impugns the integrity of our workforce as a whole or the fbi as an institution. i want to be very clear about the fbi i have gotten to see in the ten months since i have taken on this job. as i meet with our offices all over the world, offices represented by every one of the members up here, i encounter
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really remarkable, inspiring stories about the work our 37,000 men and women are doing every single day. we have rescued more than 1,300 kids from child predators this year alone. we have arrested more than 4,600 violent gang members in just the past few months. we have disrupted recently terrorist plots ranging from places like fisherman's wharf to a crowded shopping mall in miami. i can go on and on. our men and women are doing all that great work with the unfailing fidelity to our constitution and the laws that it demands, the bravery that it deserves and the integrity that the american people rightly expect. that means we're going to do this job by the book. i am committed to doing that. i would not be here if i wasn't committed to making sure we do it that way, and i expect all our employees to do the same. that means following our rules, following our policies,
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following our long-standing norms. there will be times when we feel extraordinary pressure not to follow our process and policies. but in my view, those are precisely the times that we need to adhere to them the most. we've got to stay faithful to our best traditions and our core values, making sure we are not only doing the right thing, but doing it in the right way and pursuing the facts independently and objectively, no matter who likes it. that, in my view, is the only way we can maintain the trust and credibility of the people we serve. mr. chairman and members of the committee, thank you again for the opportunity to address the inspector general's report and i look forward to answering the committee questions. >> thank you. we will now proceed under the five-minute rule with questions. mr. rosenstein,
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august 8, text message in the ig report. trump is not ever going to become president, right? peter responds, no. we will stop it. the justice department had previously provided text messages from that date. they included all of the messages except the we will stop it message. why was that left out? i spoke with michael horvitz yesterday and he said when he testified he did not have an opportunity to explain. he assured me he had a long telephone conversation with mr. jordan after the hearing and explained it. he is in a much better position than i. what i can assure you, we are not withholding anything embarrassing. the message was not in the original material.
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you guys did not find it and he did. we're asking you to produce stuff and we expect a good faith effort. you guys didn't find it. but he was able to find it and you didn't. so it was disappointing to see that text message there. think about the timeline. you have peter who opened the counterintelligence investigation against trump. one week later, this text message. then the next week, the insurance policy text message or he says we cannot take the risk of a trump presidency. ,he american people see that doesn't not undermine the whole integrity of the actions of people like peter struck? >> yes. it is obviously highly inappropriate. >> it is more than that. theid not say it affected
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decision about hillary. concerned with pursuing this collusion investigation. thatstified on the record it was absolutely reasonable to say that the bias not only existed but affected what he did. do --id the drg or fbi ?oj or fbi do >> i am not permitted to discuss any classified information in an open setting, but i can assure you we are working with oversight committees and producing relevant evidence. >> did the obama administration direct anybody to make contact with anybody associated with the trump campaign? >> i understand your interest. i am not permitted to discuss
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this. >> the american people need to know where the counter were thence powers -- counter intelligence powers unleashed inappropriately? we talk about the mueller investigation, it is really the rosenstein investigation. memo saying comey should be fired. you signed a extension for carter page. so it seems like you should be recused from this more than jeff sessions, because you were involved in both decisions. why haven't you done that? you if it wase appropriate for me to recuse, i would be more than happy to do so. and let's unveiled handle this. -- and let somebody else handle this.
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>> the ig report makes it clear jim gummi should've been fired. why are we still doing this with the mueller probe -- jim comey should have been fired. why are we still doing this with the mueller probe? saidu accept what ig core with the clinton emails. he texted lesa page. hurwitz said his bias is an appropriate explanation for his conduct. do you agree? >> i agree with the findings of the ig report and i think they indicate bias. >> you have work to do.
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if bias is affecting official action, that is a big problem. >> this may be an appropriate time to make what is an easy request. could you state for the record what is the department of justice and fbi policy on commenting on any matter related to an ongoing criminal or counterintelligence investigation, and does this policy apply to document production, even when requested by congress? >> yes. director ray might be able to speak more specifically to the reasons why fbi does not commence, that we do not discuss counterintelligence or criminal
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investigations while they are ongoing. has always been my experience that the department and fbi do not comment on ongoing investigations. there are a number of reasons for that. they go back to the days when i was a line prosecutor and long before that. we have to do with protecting the reputation and privacy of the people who are subject to the investigation. they have to protect the integrity of the ongoing investigation of the right to fair trial. to protectneed sources. one of the central learnings of the ig report that we are here goesng about is about what on when you do talk about ongoing investigations. 's of his policies apply to all current and former employees
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apply tose policies all current and former employees? >> that is correct. >> we're here pursuing the that, inf information my experience on this committee, i have never seen this happen before. having been given the to read the entire and documents took me all day. obvious why that material should not be in the public arena. there are people who could lose their lives if their identity were made no -- were made known.
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it is a requirement you labor under but that the committee labors under. mr. jordan, correct me if i am wrong, but i do understand mr. jordan accused you, mr. rosenstein, on the floor of threatening the hits he staff if they threaten to hold you in contempt for refusing to comply with document requests. have you ever threatened includingnal staff, house intelligent -- house intelligence staff? >> people make all kinds of allegations. , if someone comes forward and swears under oath
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that i threatened them, we have to respond. all i can tell you for that matter is that in the room at the time were three officials appointed. there were also two former republican attorneys in the room with us at the time. my answer is no. >> thank you. youeems to me we are asking to violate the policies you labor under. we have been doing that repeatedly. we have the 500 page ig report. they're trying to get the fbi to violate the same policies you're
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holding up today. it is not what the committee should be doing. i do not believe it is in the best interest of this country and certainly it does not uphold and elevate the rule of law, which is what this committee should be doing and has been doing for the quarter-century that i have served on it. i yield back. >> the chair recognizes the gentleman from florida, mr. gates, for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman, i am in violent agreement with the statements you made after this report was published that nothing in the report impugns the patriotic work of the fbi employees who are serving in my district and around the world and this mess in washington has , nothing to do with them and i want to make that very clear. i appreciate your statements on the subject. deputy director, the democratic memo the president declassified says the department of justice accurately informed the court that the fbi initiated its counterintelligence investigation on july 31, 2016. did any investigative activity regarding the trump campaign and russia occur?
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before july 31, 2016. >> as you know we're dealing , with the intelligence committee on that issue and chairman nunes met with director wray and me. i received the same briefing he received, so i don't know any information beyond that and i can't produce any beyond what the fbi told me. >> are you aware as you sit here today of any payments made to any person to collect intelligence on the trump campaign prior to july 31, 2016? >> no, but keep in mind i wasn't there. i only know what information we've obtained from the fbi records. >> are you as you sit here today aware of any efforts to contact roger stone? >> i don't have personal knowledge, congressman but we , are seeking to respond to chairman nunes'request. >> how about as it regards to michael caputo? >> i wasn't there so i can only
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answer questions that we direct to the fbi and have them -- you're there now, right? -- >> you're there now, right? have you asked these questions of anyone? >> we have conveyed the questions that chairman nunes has raised. >> you could understand why that if the department of justice represented to a court that this investigation began on july 31 and the fact that you can't tell me definitively that before july 31 there was not intelligence collected on the trump campaign that that's something of great interest to us. >> congressman, i think you should understand there's nobody more commuted to rooting out abuse and misconduct than i. we talk with the fbi, take those seriously and if we find it we'll produce that to chairman nunes. >> thank you, let's do that quickly. let's get to your determination . i asked when you became aware that nellie orr, the wife of your associate deputy attorney genebr


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