tv Campaign 2018 Arizona Senate Debate CSPAN October 16, 2018 5:57am-6:59am EDT
other side of the aisle. if i could finish my phrase without the other side getting unruly, it is important to add that revenues are up or percent due to our tax cuts in economic growth but spending is up 8%. that is not from republicans, that is from the runaway spenders on the other side of the aisle. >> with election day less than a month away, and the control of congress in question, see the competition for yourself on c-span. watch the debates from key house and senate races. make c-span your primary source for campaign 2018. heading out to phoenix for more debate coverage. u.s. senate democrat kyrsten sinema debating republican representative martha mcsally, vying for the seat currently held by retiring republican senator jeff flake. ♪
>> good evening and welcome to this special election 2018 debate between u.s. senate candidates republican congresswoman martha mcsally and democrat congresswoman kyrsten sinema. this is the only live debate between these two candidates. it is a joint effort by arizona pbs and the arizona republic. i'm ted simon. houston managing editor of arizona horizon. >> and i am maria political , reporter for the arizona republic. we are broadcasting to you live from the studios at arizona pbs and the walter cronkite school of journalism at the downtown campus of arizona state university. tonight's debate is being live streamed on azpbs. >> the ground rules for the debate are as follows -- once we ask a candidate a question, they will have 90 seconds to answer without interruption.
the other candidate then gets 45 seconds for a rebuttal. again, without interruption. >> they will then have up to two minutes for an open discussion on that topic. at the end of the debate, each candidate will have one minute for closing statements. >> topics were chosen from journalists from arizona pbs and the arizona republic. questions from the public are also included. let's now meet the candidates. >> martha mcsally is a republican and has represented arizonan congressional district two since 2014. she is a native of rhode island and the first woman to fly in combat in iraq. >> kyrsten sinema is a democrat. she served in the arizona house and senate. she is an arizona native. >> we drew numbers to see who will have the first question and that honor goes to congresswoman martha mcsally. >> you were once a critic of
president trump. you now are a more vocal supporter of the president. the question is, what changed? rep. mcsally: nothing changed. i take issue with your premise. i was representing my district in 2016. i was running my own campaign and i never endorsed anyone for anything, whether president or dog catcher. as the president of the united states, we have this historic opportunity to move america in a direction and we have done that. we have cut taxes. we have rolled back regulations. we are working to rebuild the military. so many opportunities we have in front of us and i built a good relationship with the president. the first time i was invited over there, i talked to him about the a-10 warthog and how we saved it. the last administration tried to
put it in the boneyard, but how important it was to keep it flying because it protects our troops. i talked to him into becoming an a-10 fan. i worked with his administration related to sanctuary cities and ms-13 gangs. so many things we have to work on. because of the republican-led senate and the house working with this president, we see more opportunity for people in arizona. i am going to keep working with him. in fact, i will host him at luke air force base on friday. this is really important and i will keep working with him. ted: 45 second rebuttal. rep. sinema: it is an honor to be with you tonight. martha, good to see you. we are going to have a good conversation on the issues that matter the most to arizona families. health-care costs, protecting medicare and social security and keeping our country secure. some differences you will see.
i have been laser focused on issues that matter most to arizona families. while martha has run a campaign based on nasty smears and false attacks and i expect he will see -- i expect you will see that this evening. arizonans know i have never been afraid to stand alone to do what is right and i will always work with anyone to get things right in arizona. that is the approach i have taken in the united states congress. maria: congresswoman mcsally, did you want to respond to any part of that? rep. mcsally: absolutely. we have her these talking points -- we have heard these talking points a lot already. talking specifically about the campaign, i had over $15 million so far of attack ads from the against her. over $2 million was spent in attack ads against me. over $2 million was spent against me by in organization -- it was her own political consultant. and it was a sneak attack. george soros and chuck schumer were behind them and now up to $50 million. what everyday arizonans care about our job opportunities and
we have been able to work on that and provide opportunities. we have more jobs right now, more jobs opening than people are looking for jobs and this is providing more opportunities for people in arizona and we will keep working on that. everyday arizonans cannot afford their health care because obamacare has failed and we need to make sure we provide affordable available health care. ted: congresswoman sinema, i asked congresswoman mcsally regarding what changed. what has changed with you? many remember you as being more liberal than you are now back you were in the state legislature. now, you vote more often than not with president trump. what changed? rep. sinema: as arizonans know, i have been lucky and privileged to serve this great state in the state legislature and now in congress the last six years. over the years, i am proud to say i have taken the time to learn and grow and occasionally even change my opinion. when i served in the u.s. congress for my first several terms with congressman salmon,
we worked on a variety of issues. including keeping our country safe and growing businesses in arizona, and protecting trade. over time, i think it makes sense for individuals were -- who are willing to learn and grow. the difference between martha's approach and my approach is that martha opposed many of these issues before running for senate and then changed her mind very quickly. i have been serving for many years in the united states congress and before that in the legislature, and have over time than able to grow and become better at my job serving arizonans. folks know in arizona, i will always put their interest first, never party. as you mentioned, i often do vote against my own party and that is something that arizonans depend on and are proud of. they want an independent voice in the united states congress. what they want in the united states senate is someone who they know will stand up for them, not just what party leaders tell them to do. ted: have you changed? have you changed over the years? rep. mcsally: absolutely not. i left my home at the age of 18
and joint the military. -- and joined the military. i lost my dad when i was 12. i was looking for an opportunity to get an education. i chose to serve in uniform for 26 years. i put my life on the line for our country. 325 combat hours. protecting our freedoms and our way of life. i'm now serving in congress and i have been leading on the issues of supporting our military, securing the border and providing more economic opportunities for people. i have been consistently doing that, both serving in congress and running for the senate. my record is clear and consistent, unlike my opponent. ted: real quickly, you mentioned you are going to appear with president trump this week. are you proud of the way president trump has conducted himself in office? rep. mcsally: president trump ran for president one time and won. and he is a disruptor. he went to d.c. to shake things up and he is doing that. we are seeing the results. not a lot of people want to do
-- wanted to tackle the challenges of north korea getting access to a nuclear weapons that could hold an american city hostage. not a lot of people wanted to address updating bad trade agreements that would help americans. he is disrupting things in washington, d.c. but providing more opportunities for americans and arizonans while ensuring we are safe and secure. ted: you are proud of the way president trump has behaved? rep. mcsally: i am proud he has gone to the white house and he is leading our country in the right direction. i am proud to be working with him, to provide more opportunities and make sure we keep our country safe. he did not need to be doing this. i have gotten to know him and he loves america and he is fighting for americans every single day. and i am going to keep working with him to provide more opportunities for all of us. rep. sinema: i think this is an area where we have a difference of opinion. i believe arizonans deserve a senator who calls the balls from the strikes and does not agree with their party leaders. martha has a 98% voting record with her party and president,
which i think demonstrates she is not willing to do what is right for arizona if the president is wrong on an issue. i will give you an example. recently, the president instituted very harsh tariffs and has started a trade war. and that is devastating for arizona's businesses and our agriculture community. thanks to these tariffs, right now, cotton bushels are selling for 25% less than they were before. farms, five dairy of which have been sold, because of these harmful tariffs. i have seen business leaders here in arizona create tools for medical device manufacturing and they are spending 20% more on taxes on aluminum steel. and perhaps worst of all, in lumber yards, a family-owned in -- a family-owned business in flagstaff, they will have to pay more for cans of beer. that is something we should all agree on, beer should not cost more.
this is an area of difference between us because martha has said the small businesses that -- that will be hurt by these tariffs are collateral damage. but i don't think the 97% of businesses in our economy which are small businesses should ever be considered collateral damage. they are the lifeblood of our economy. i believe it is our duty to stand up against the president when he is doing something wrong , but join with him when he is doing something right like working for veterans. we should be calling the balls and strikes, not just blindly following what party leaders tell you to do. rep. mcsally: let me first say, 97% voting with rolling back regulation and providing more opportunities for our military to be able to keep us safe -- i am proud to be able to do that. has voted ama little over 60%. here are some key votes. i voted to cut your taxes, provided the opportunity for about $2000 per arizona family.
more money in their pocket instead of going to washington. we are seeing because of that that our economy is on fire right now. i voted for the farm bill. she is talking about farmers. she voted against the farm bill, in a partisan move because that is what nancy pelosi decided to tell them all to do. another bill that i hope we get to related to immigration, to secure the border. two and family suck -- to end family separation. the really important compromise bill that president trump supported. given the opportunity, kyrsten sinema voted no. 60% with the agenda that is showing more opportunity for everybody is a failing grade in any school. and arizonans want to be with the agenda we are working on with president trump. the alternative right now is her party. if chuck schumer is in charge, it will be open borders, government run health care and abolishing ice. there is a lot at stake with the election right now, and people
need to make sure they know the full record of our background and i hope we can talk about tariffs later because i believe in free and fair trade. maria: you touched on several topics we will get into later this evening. the second question -- the senate confirmation hearings for brett kavanaugh were extremely charged. if you had been a sitting senator at the time, how would you have voted and why? rep. sinema: i was incredibly disappointed in the way the senate behaved during this confirmation hearing. it was a circus. and it was not befitting the importance of a decision like this. i was disappointed in people in both parties of the united states senate. i was also disappointed that within hours of president trump nominating judge kavanaugh that politicians in both parties tweeted out their fervent opposition or solid support for someone we knew very little about. martha chose to endorse judge kavanaugh right out of the gate. i said i wanted to reserve judgment because this decision is so important. it is a lifetime appointment.
and i believe it is one of the senate's greatest duties. i recommended individuals take time to learn about judge kavanaugh's record, to read his decisions, to understand his approach to jurisprudence because the candidate who is going to the supreme court should not be evaluated on whether or not he or she is conservative or liberal. they should be evaluated based on character, integrity, and their approach to deciding the law without bias or favor. i was disappointed in the method that the senate handled this and i felt like it really denigrated the work the senate should do. as a united states senator, when i pledge to do is evaluate each nominee based on his or her qualifications and character and approach to jurisprudence, not based on political leanings. maria: your rebuttal. rep. mcsally: i would have voted yes on now justice kavanaugh. he is highly qualified and he has shown what we need to looking at for judges and
justices, which is they will not be activists, but they will interpret the constitution and the laws we make in congress the way they are intended to. if you look at what happened and what the democrats did to dr. ford and brett kavanaugh and his family, it was disgusting. i'm a survivor of sexual abuse myself. she clearly had been through a trauma. what happened to her, by holding her name, which she wanted anonymous, and her not even knowing that they offered to fly out to california, it was disgusting. we have seen the mob rule in washington. in the end, arizonans wanted a yes vote on justice kavanagh. i can be for survivors and for justice kavanaugh, and my opponent showed that the mob rule and the anti-kavanaugh, they don't want to have someone on the supreme court. ted: that is 45 seconds for the rebuttal. your response? rep. sinema: i think martha is
mistaking is the partisan exercise that was engaged in. the reality is senators should be evaluating each of these nominees based on their approach to judicial decisions. not based on these partisan attacks. martha used language just now that was incredibly partisan to describe this process and so did many sitting senators. but i believe the senate is better than that. the senate should not engage in that type of behavior. and it was disappointing to see. if i am elected as a united states senator, arizona can count on me to evaluate each nominee thoroughly and carefully without political bias. maria: using the criteria you just outlined -- i know you said earlier you signaled you wanted to reserve judgment to wait until you are able to review the record and the other things you mentioned. now that you have had the time to do that, would you have voted yes or no? rep. sinema: i had several concerns with justice kavanaugh.
first, i was concerned about the partisan nature of some of his comments during his second testimony. and i was also concerned he appears to have lied under oath with some of the questions that were asked in that testimony. prior to that, i had questions that if i were a senator to ask him. for instance, his approach to privacy. in arizona, we take our privacy rights very seriously and judge kavanaugh had as a circuit court judge ruled on a number of decisions concerning the privacy of arizonans. this is an area where martha and i have a difference. martha supported a bill in the united states congress, introduced by senator flake, that would allow internet companies to sell your private data, including social security numbers of children. if that were the case to go to a court, i would want to ensure a justice would protect the fourth amendment privacy rights of americans. ted: we need to get a response
to that but before we do, we still have not gotten an answer -- seen no answer from you. rep. sinema: i would have voted no. i did put out a statement saying such. i was disappointed the senate would not release the results of the fbi report after saying they were going to take the time to do an investigation. they did not share that with the arizona public and we deserve the transparency to see what are the results of that investigation. given the fact i did not have the same information the united states senators have, the decision i would have made based on lying under oath would have been to vote no. ted: did you put our privacy at risk voting to let anyone buy or sell private information online, because you received money from internet company hacks? did you do that? rep. mcsally: what are you even talking about? of course, i did not do that. this has been debunked. this is what this campaign is theseout, coming out with
lies and attacks that are fear tactics. i'm a privacy hound. my friends and family make fun of me because i won't use location services on my phone. and when somebody gave me a fitbit, i give it back to them. i'm tirelessly advocating for a privacy. this is an absolute lie. we wanted to make sure the fcc basically had a level playing field and that privacy was protected for everybody whether you are a constant manager or an internet service provider. that is what that was all about. it is a privacy thing that they are taking totally out of context in order to scare people. rep. sinema: the facts are very clear. we had a vote on this bill. i voted no and martha voted yes along with senator flake, and the bill became law. it jeopardizes the security of children's social security information. i have been working to help protect children from the threat of social security fraud. earlier this year, i partnered with the republican colleague of mine of florida and we passed legislation that provides
greater protection for children who are targets or victims of social security fraud. working together, we can actually solve these problems and keep our children safe and secure, and protect their privacy rights. unfortunately on this piece of legislation, martha voted yes. maria: i think we need to move on to other important topics because literally this has been debunked. --rep. mcsally: i think we need to move on to other important topics because literally this has been debunked. if you want to talk about protecting children, less make -- let's make sure we don't take donations from backpage.com. she took $53,000 from backpage.com owners and it was not until she was put under pressure while they were under investigation that she was finally shamed into giving it back. when she was in the arizona legislature, when they were trying to hold jobs accountable for going after victims of child sex trafficking, she was advocating for them, saying girls, 12 and 13-year-old looked older than her. i am not making this stuff up.
these are her words. i ask people to go to the realsinema.com to find out the facts. this makeover has been present. people deserve to know what her record is, what her past is and the facts are in the things she has advocated for. ted: do you honestly believe she was protecting adult men who were molesting children? rep. mcsally: i would ask people to go watch the whole video. she was a defense attorney so i guess this is where it comes from. ted: you believe that? rep. mcsally: in that discussion and later on in 2010, based on her concern, 15, 16 and 17-year-olds, johns in that bill have an affirmative defense saying i did not know they were 15, 16, or 17 years old. and that was the bill that was changed. in 2010, watch the tape. realsinema.com. tirelessly advocating for children. she has seen the scorch.
scourge.s seen the in an argument with representative sinema, because she is asking what changed? it is because they are getting off with less than a traffic ticket. i ask the voters -- there is so much at stake. do the research. go to realsinema.com and you can see for yourself. ted: respond, please. rep. sinema: i actually voted yes on both of those bills, and work hand-in-hand with my colleague to make sure the legislation toughened the penalties against the bad guys than engage in this horrible activity. something that is important for folks to know about me is that this has been my entire career. my first job was as a rate crisis counselor working in a domestic violence shelter. since then, i have committed my life and career to protecting women and children from abuse and from assault. and my record is strong. in 2013 when we passed the violence against women
reauthorization act to give better tools to law enforcement to crack down on these kinds of heinous crimes, i lead that effort. but just last month when a vote came up to reauthorize this for the long-term, martha voted no to give a long-term reauthorization to the violence against women act. so i would encourage folks to go look at the votes. as i heard this morning in the arizona republic, this is ridiculous. we asked people to look at our vote record because it speaks for itself. rep. mcsally: it does speak for itself and that is absolutely a lie. that is a procedural vote that has nothing to do with three -- with reauthorizing. please do not believe that. maria: going back to sinema congresswoman sinema -- congresswoman sinema and the original question about brett kavanaugh -- one of the main sticking points on both sides has been discussion about whether just as kavanaugh would support overturning roe v. wade.
where do you stand on that issue? rep. sinema: i think important decisions like that should be made between the woman, her family and her doctor free from government interference. maria: and where do you stand on that? rep. mcsally: i am pro-life and i have a strong pro-life record. maria: >> so you would support overturning roe v. wade? rep. mcsally: i'm focus when it comes to judges on how they interpret the constitution and how they interpret the laws we make. i have a very strong pro-life record. ted: so you would support the overturning? rep. mcsally: i would support appointing justices -- this has nothing to do with what congress is working on or the senate. i would support appointing justices that are looking independently at the constitution and at the laws we make. and they would have a good decision-making process based on that. ted: all right, let's move on to health care. congresswoman mcsally, how much should government be involved in
health care, especially when it concerns folks that find it difficult to get health care, specifically those with pre-existing conditions? what is the government's role? rep. mcsally: thank you for the opportunity again to debunk another attack from my opponent. i voted to protect people with pre-existing conditions to make sure insurance companies were forced to give them health care. no caps on insurance. that is a flat out lie. we cannot go back to where we were before, obamacare, where people were one diagnosis away from going bankrupt because they could not get access to health care. although it was trying to fix it, obamacare was the wrong approach. $1 trillion in taxes. robbing medicare by $716 billion. it is mandates and penalties that were intended to go after those who were falling through the cracks, who did not get health care from an employer. it ends up 7% of people and
falling through the cracks. they are still falling through the cracks because i met in an entrepreneur last week who decided to start her own business who has braces and conditions but because of obamacare and skyrocketing costs, she has no coverage right now. more people paid a penalty last year than actually bought insurance on the obamacare exchanges. we have to address the issue and protect people with pre-existing conditions. but the obamacare model has failed. we move forward with an approach that gives people tax credits and give them options to stop around -- shop around. more small business support. to have association health plans. or more opportunity for people to give to health savings accounts that still can provide affordable health insurance for them which is not working right now under obamacare. we have to protect it. at the federal level, there -- there heart gosh should be a part but it is best managed in the state where there is more options for them to be
innovative because what works in california does not work in arizona. rep. sinema: i am so glad we are talking about health care because it is the number one issue i hear from folks both on the campaign trail as i travel the state and in my office in the united states congress. arizonans are very worried that they will lose coverage for those with pre-existing health conditions. nearly 3 million arizonans with -- live with pre-existing health conditions. one example is a woman named leslie in scottsdale. she was diagnosed with diabetes in high school and she has been taking five insulin shots a day for 47 years. when martha voted last year to repeal existing law, it would have eliminated the protection for people who live with pre-existing conditions in our country today. she also voted to repeal that same protection in 2015. the reality is that arizonans are worried about losing access to this critical coverage and martha voted to take that protection away. rep. mcsally: that is a flat out lie.
again, these are classic fear tactics. you turn on a tv all over the country right now, the democrats have nothing to run on so they are choosing to play with fear. i voted to protect people with pre-existing conditions. as we were moving forward and nothing was moving through the senate related to this issue, 14 of 15 counties in arizona, only one choice last year. that is not a choice. the premiums have gone up over 100% year-to-year. there are so many people right now with pre-existing conditions that cannot get access to health care because the obamacare model does not work. when things came to a standstill and we were watching these individuals still not able to get access to health insurance, i sat down with my democratic colleagues and the problem solvers caucus. we sat down to see if we can find any common ground to help these people get access to health insurance. and we came up with a plan. there was me and a couple of other democrat colleagues with a whiteboard at my office. we know what we can disagree on but if there is something we can find to help stabilize this
market as it was collapsing, and we came up with a plan that 23 democrats and republicans, the majority of the group agreed to. we showed we can break through the gridlock, solve the problem and actually help people get the insurance that they deserve and get the care that they deserve with the conditions they have in their family. ted: again, government's place in health care? rep. sinema: one thing i think americans can agree on is we cannot go back to what time when people could not get coverage when they had pre-existing health conditions. while martha talks about a working group and the problem solvers caucus, which i am a proud member of, the reality is we took the vote. during the vote, martha voted to repeal these protections. they are the protections that arizonans count on every day. that same vote also took away protections for people ages 50 to 64, and would have allowed states to begin charging them as much as five times more for their coverage. that is just not fair. finally, that piece of
legislation she voted for what would haveve -- what increased premiums by as much as $1500 per year per family. while we all can agree the health care system needs to be fixed, the solutions martha has voted for actually makes the system worse and hurts arizonans. but she has avoided talking about this issue during the campaign because she knows her vote hurts arizonans. and has instead chosen to lob attacks against other issues. rep. mcsally: that is an outright lie. again, i voted to protect people with pre-existing conditions to ensure insurance companies cannot deny coverage if they have a pre-existing condition. when it comes to this age tax, the only person in the senate campaign who voted to cut your taxes is me. age 50 to 64, calling them older americans -- i am in that age group so i take offense to that. but we were trying to make sure that premiums come down for everybody. that there are options are
everyone to get access to affordable, available care. that is not what obamacare has done. as we were working on our bill, i was worried about tax credits, especially for ages 50 to 64. i personally lobbied to ensure an additional $90 billion is added to the bill for tax credits for everyone ages 50 to 64. that was included in the bill. as we move away from the failures of obamacare, more options for people to get access to insurance that is affordable, it has gone up over 300% in arizona. these options are a better path. let them make decisions between them and their families and by uy the insurance that fits their needs. maria: we mentioned we do have some questions submitted by arizonans, by the public for you, we would like both of you to answer this one. where do you stand on strengthening social security and medicare for senior citizens? rep. mcsally: i am glad you
asked this question, because this is personal for me. my grandmother raised three young kids on her own. she worked at first cafeteria. when she retired years ago, social security and medicare were all she had to depend on. i am committed to protecting social security and medicare for current and future generations. i oppose privatization schemes such as those that martha has supported. martha has said she wants to privatize social security and i oppose that. i think that is the wrong answer for our seniors. i also oppose raising the retirement age which martha supports. i believe after a lifetime of hard work, it is not fair to ask someone to work even more to get the benefits they have worked so hard for and they earned. finally, i believe that turning medicare into a voucher system is risky and allows wall street to make decisions about what our future health care looks like. it is such a risky proposal that even the wall street journal turning medicare into a voucher -- the wall street
journal said that turning medicare into a voucher system and medicare as we know it. this is an area of great difference between martha and i. i do not support making these cuts but martha voted to cut $500 billion from medicare. my own grandmother depends on medicare and social security every day and the constituents i represent and i hope to represent in the united states senate will depend on these benefits that they have earned, and it is our duty to protect them for future generations. rep. mcsally: you cannot make this up. this is more lies. our seniors have been working their whole lives and they have in saving for retirement and they have been paying into medicare and social security and they deserve to have the benefits they paid into. we must protect medicare and social security. for those that are at retirement and the next generations to come. the only person who has voted to cut or supported cutting medicare in the senate race is obamacare cutting $700 billion
from medicare, robbing it for the one-size-fits-all washington approach. that is the difference here. the medicare trust fund and social security trust fund are doing better because of the tax cuts and jobs act, more people are working, more people are paying into it and that will sustain it. but if we do nothing for the next generation, by 2026, the medicare fund will dry up and by 2034, social security. why don't we sit down together and find some bipartisan solutions to protect this for the next generation? these are the typical scare tactics we have seen for many years against republicans on this issue. ted: do you want to privatize social security? rep. mcsally: absolutely not. that is a flat out lie. we have seen these attacks for many years. democrats do not have anything to run on. republicans are throwing granny over the cliff. the voters are not going to believe this. we have to make sure that we
come up with a bipartisan way for us to strengthen and preserve it for the next generation. ted: do you want to turn medicare into a private voucher system? rep. mcsally: absolutely not. what i want to do is strengthen medicare for the seniors that are there and the next generation. i totally support medicare advantage which is very popular in arizona. we have so many seniors that want to have options for them to shop around while we preserve medicare as we know it. the only thing that will end medicare as we know it is the agenda of her party. if the democrats take over in the senate and house, they will want to push through a government run health care which literally will end medicare as we know. some of these votes in your -- some of the votes she is talking about, i was serving overseas, i was not in congress. you cannot make this stuff up. ted: there seems to be a disconnect, she is saying she doesn't want vouchers or privatization. are you buying that?
rep. sinema: martha said these things. this is a pattern we have seen through this campaign, unfortunately, that martha has changed her opinions rapidly when she decided to run for the u.s. senate and this shows she is willing to do and say anything to get elected. i would urge voters to take a look at what she has said. she has offered many times that she supports privatizing social security, set she wants to raise the retirement age and has said that she wants to turn medicare into a voucher system. and take a look at the actual vote. she did vote to cut $500 billion from medicare last year. take a look at the vote record. maria: moving on to our next topic, immigration and border security. , i know youn sinema have described the proposed border wall as an 18th-century solution to a 21st century problem. would you support allocating funding for a border wall if it included a path to citizenship for dreamers?
rep. sinema: i am glad you brought that up, because we voted on that last year. i voted for $1.5 billion of border security which included funding for president trump's border wall. i am fine with a physical barrier being part of a total solution, but i believe that simply funding for a border wall is not sufficient. the danger we have around border security are too great to allow for an 18th-century solution to a 21st century problem. that is why i have introduced legislation called the usa act, a bipartisan bill, that would increase funding for smart border technology, increase d boots on the ground, drones, night vision cameras, and increased technology so we can interdict dangerous cartels like sinaloa and ms 13 who are bringing in drugs, but also smuggling in humans and abusing them folks, sometimes trapping them in drug houses and victimizing them.
we have to combine our efforts not just for the physical barrier, but also with smart technology. our usa act provides a path to citizenship for dreamers, young people who came to this country through no fault of their own and deserve a path to citizenship. they served our country in the military and gone to our colleges and schools, and they are american in every thing but name. this is the difference between martha and i. when she ran for congress she opposed a path to citizenship dreamers. in 2015, she supported it. but then she decided to run for senate, and now she opposes it again. so we do not know where martha stance on issues of immigration. rep. mcsally: you know exactly where i stand. i have been leading the effort to secure the border. i represent fifth-generation ranchers within 80 miles of the border that are tired of the cartels that are trafficking into their wrenches into into our communities. it has created an opioid crisis that is killing 116 americans every single day. and the policies of the past have failed.
because of my leadership, i am the border subcommittee chair. the reality is the border ranchers like jim chilton and all of them on the border are endorsing me because they know i am the one who is going to keep us safe. the border patrol council that represents 15,000 border patrol agents, they endorse democrats, and they looked at her record, six years in congress, and they decided they were going to endorse me. these are the agents who are down on the line putting their lives on the line to keep us safe. do not listen to the talk. i have been leading on this issue and she has the opportunity to vote for a bill for $38 billion of border security, ending family separation, moving us toward a merit-based system and providing a legislative solution on daca. she says she will work with anybody but when it came down to
it, democrats voted no on this very important compromise bill. president trump supported it, she was given the opportunity to vote yes, and she voted no. rep. sinema: folks on the east coast and from faraway do not understand the issues of the border like we do but i was on born and raised in tucson and have been living around the border for most of my life. this is real for us in arizona. that is why when opportunities came to work across the aisle to do what is right for this state, party. -- i bucked my i supported a $10 billion increase for our customs and border patrol agents of $5 billion increase for ice agents and have voted for legislation such as kates law and the gang member act which allow us to crackdown harder on these bad, dangerous guys who are committing felonies and hurting people in our community. this is an issue i have been working on my entire career. it should not be a partisan issue and it is not a partisan issue.
only when some people choose to make it partisan does this become a fight in congress. ted: did you pull your name off the recognizing children act earlier this year, which targets dreamers? you work for that's, then you pulled your name off of that. what was that about? rep. sinema: i was willing to do something on daca but we have to secure our borders and address the root causes of why we have a daca population. to make sure we do not make the mistakes of the past. so we were working on this issue, when the president kicked daca to congress, appropriately, me and a couple of other republicans sat in a room for many hours and came up with legislation that resolved the issue, secure the border, and address the issue of daca. when it was brought up to a vote, she voted no. we then had another compromise bill, which was $25 billion for
border security. the president supported it and the pathway to citizenship but a it closed the loopholes the cartel are taking advantage of right now. we are in the midst of this discussion. some people were going to force a vote. i want to make sure it is clear, we have to secure our border. i am willing to do something on daca but we have to secure the border and close these loopholes that the cartels are trafficking people into our communities and the opioid crisis that is killing arizona every single day. i jumped in and led on the issue and she was given the opportunity to vote yes or no. billion for border security and a path to citizenship for daca, she chose to vote no along with nancy pelosi. ted: do you support a partially government shutdown to fund the border wall? rep. mcsally: i don't support the shutdown of anything. i have been in the military. i have seen the devastating
results of government shutdowns. washington, d.c. needs to get their act together and fund the fund thet and military. given the opportunity, when there was a lot of pressure from her base to address this issue, she voted with chuck schumer to shut down the government, choosing illegal immigrants over our troops in a partisan play. she talks good game about working with anybody, but when given the opportunity to solve this issue, she left our troops hanging. rep. sinema: martha continues to talk about very partisan bills and very partisan activities. but the reality is that during this discussion and talking about immigration and how to solve our problems, we do have a partisan legislation. the bill you mentioned that martha removed her name from, i am a cosponsor of that legislation. i was the first democrat to join with congressman carlos of miami to sponsor that legislation and i cosponsored an original bill
called the usa act, which i mentioned earlier, which secures our border and provides a path to citizenship for dreamers. martha has chosen not to support that bipartisan legislation, and instead has chosen to support only legislation supported by one political party. and i believe arizona deserves better. when there was an opportunity for folks to get very partisan , which they did, and they do on a regular basis, i was part of a bipartisan group trying to solve that problem. we offered our bill and partisan leaders in both parties rejected our proposal. maria: congresswoman mcsally, you mentioned family separation at the border. did you support that trump administration's so-called zero-tolerance policy? are there any circumstances under which you are in favor of families being separated that way? rep. mcsally: because of the laws on the books, they were put into a situation where they had to enforce the law or keep families together.
we need to do both. the second bill that she voted no on would have ended family separation. it would have provided an opportunity for due process and keep families together while they were processed for their illegal entry or processed for asylum. we were also increasing funding for immigration judges so we could end this catch and release . but the reality is, the cartels know right now that if you show up with a kid, you will be let go. i got a call from the yuma mayor saying he was panicked that 200 or more people every single day were going to be let go into yuma and they did not have the capacity because they showed up with a kid and they were seeing the activity increase every week as they crossed the border illegally. they know they will be let go. there are cases of the border patrol are telling us about where people are not with a child the person is bringing them in. that is an incentive to traffic children across the border. my bill fixes legislatively and had the opportunity for us to enforce the law and keep
families together. and that was the right approach. she can talk about different bills, but the one she had a chance to vote on, the one that was a compromise that president trump supported, ending family separation, fixed daca, and secured the border. but she voted to support sanctuary cities. she voted to cut ice. she is very dangerous on the issue, we need to make sure we secure our borders. ted: rebuttal, please. rep. sinema: martha shared a lot of information that is not accurate. the reality is the trump administration made a decision to separate families at the border in an attempt to provide deterrence. but that is the wrong decision. separating families is not reflective of american values. we can both secure our borders and keep our country safe and secure without taking children away from their parents. there are ways to do this quite easily. by monitoring families and moving them through the process of adjudication more quickly. but martha has chosen to move
very partisan. as she says, compromise legislation. i think she means compromise with herself. there was no bipartisanship in any of this discussion, which is incredibly disappointing for arizonans. rep. mcsally: and the reason there is no bipartisanship is because nancy pelosi decided democrats would not join in. president trump supported this bill and he took a lot of flak from it, from both directions. securing the border, closing these loopholes, moving toward a merit-based immigration system and providing a path to citizenship for daca. that is the definition of a compromise on this issue. most arizonans agree, we have to secure the border and family end family separation and address these other issues. our bill is a confidence building measure addressing the very real security issues of cartels trafficking through these communities. this is not just theoretical.
there are four strands of barbed wire at the international border. we can all agree, families -- we have to support the border now. ted: was there a choice the president could have made to keep these families together, as opposed to what you say is the law, we had no choice? rep. mcsally: the law on the books is to enforce the law. the congress -- they were put in an untenable situation. we can all agree, families should not be separated but we can also agree we need to enforce the law, border security is national security. and the definition of a country is we control who is coming in and out of our borders. ted: enforcing the law superseded keeping families together. rep. mcsally: congress needs to fix this. it is our job to fix the law. that is what we have been doing and that is what i have been leading on. and she voted no on both these bills that would end family separation. ted: the law is the law.
rep. sinema: this is a big difference of opinion between the two of us. martha has chosen to be an apologist who supports anything her party puts forward whereas i have been ranked the third most independent member of congress. i have also been ranked the third most bipartisan member of congress. i am willing to stand up against my party to do what is right. when it comes to the issue of border security, i worked with congressman matt salmon and others to increase the employees at the border patrol by 170 members. i also have been endorsed by the customs and border protection agents in arizona and nationwide. the reason is, i have shown a willingness to stand up and do what is right, even when others are doing what their party tells them to do. while martha is trying to find excuses or apologies for this behavior, the reality is, we should just call the balls and the strikes. when the president is doing some thing right, support him, when
he is doing something wrong, oppose it. ted: let's go to the economy. congresswoman, we just heard today that the budget deficit has gone $113 billion in fiscal year 2018. that is up 17% or 3.9% of the gdp. many are saying it is because of the tax cuts. you support the tax cuts. do you also support deficit spending? rep. mcsally: the revenue is up this year so that is not accurate. it is not because of the tax cuts and job act which i proudly voted for, to cut the arizonanarizona and -- hard-working families to make sure they have more money in their paycheck for providing for rent or their mortgage or saving for college or whatever it is they want to do. i was excited and privileged to be able to vote for that. the revenue is actually up right now. the economy is doing so well, we are at a historic 3.8% unemployment rate. the lowest for hispanic unemployment rate in history.
african-american unemployment rate as well. there is so much opportunity for people. we have to get some people retrained and into the jobs that are out there, but revenue is coming in at a higher rate this year than last year. we have a spending problem is the issue. i fought for making sure we had the biggest military increase in our spending over the last year and this year, and i hope we get to the military here soon before we wrap up because there are important issues. what we have to do is address the other spending. every family, every small business has to sit down and identify where they can cut spending. we are seeing the economy is on fire right now. we are seeing american jobs that are coming home. and we're going to keep it going because that is what america is all about. rep. sinema: i voted no on that tax bill last year for several reasons. first, it increased our deficit
by what we thought would be $19 trillion. turns out from that report this morning it could be higher. more importantly for arizonans and their everyday lives, the bill jeopardizes spending from medicare and social security. after that bill was passed, many of martha's colleagues said as soon as the election is done we will go back and cut medicare and social security. that is not right. it is wrong to try and balance your budget on the backs of seniors who worked so hard their entire lives for these benefits. my last concern about that legislation was it did not provide permanency of tax cuts for middle class families or for small businesses. last month, the house took a vote to increase tax cuts for those communities, and i voted yes. because small businesses and individuals in the middle class deserve a tax cut. rep. mcsally: this is another example where she was against something before she was for it. thanks to president trump and governor ducey, our economy is doing amazing.
4.2% gdp growth. every single day, jobs are opening around arizona. i talked to small business owners who are investing in equipment, hiring new people. the optimism is likely have never seen and we have to keep it going. this is the right approach for us to cut taxes, rollback regulations, and make it permanent for small businesses, individuals, and companies. the economy is doing great and arizonans feel it every single day. this is what we have been able to do, but there is more to do. maria: thank you. moving onto our last question, i know we are running out of time. , this comesn sinema from one of our viewers. with climate change, do you believe it is a man-made problem caused by humans? number two, what are your plans in terms of combating climate change, particularly with regard to water and possible water shortages?
rep. sinema: i do believe climate change is real and it does not make a lot of sense for us to spend time debating how we got to the place we are today. what makes sense is for individuals to make a difference to work together to make that difference. here in arizona, water is of grave concern to our state. as a united states senator, i will work with senator jon kyl who has been a leader on the issue of water during his time in the united states senate. it is our duty to not only preserve our own water supply for the next 100 years, but to partner with states in the region -- colorado, new mexico, nevada, and california -- to protect our state in future years. it is working together, republicans and democrats from states across the region, that is how we will find a solution to these challenges. but i firmly believe that as arizonans, as americans, we have the resources, we have the tools, we have the skills, and
we have the knowledge. we can address issues of climate change together and do so without harming our business prospects, and without harming what makes arizona so amazing. folks know this about me but i am an outdoor enthusiast. every morning i get up and i go outside to either run, hike, bike, swim, every day, and i want to make sure that we can protect that beauty, why we love arizona so much for our future generations. rep. mcsally: i can't believe this is the last question. we do have to address the issue of climate and water is so important for arizona. it is our lifeline. i worked for senator jon kyl when i was a legislative fellow as a major, and it is so important we follow his lead. he is my mentor to address these issues. but we have to talk about the military. we have to talk about our veterans. we have not had any opportunity. ted: you have it right now. rep. mcsally: that is what brought me to arizona, for our
national security treasures that are here. i've fought for it to make sure the a-10 was preserved, that we fight for luke air force base. my opponent advocated to shut down luke air force base. she was protesting our troops in a pink tutu. if these are not disqualifying enough, what came out last week, cnn reported that in 2003 while she was on the radio, you said it was ok for americans to join the taliban to fight. ted: we are running out of time. but we have to let her answer. rep. mcsally: i want to ask whether you are going to apologize to the veterans and me for saying it is treason. ted: we have to get a response. rep. mcsally: she owes us an apology. rep. sinema: martha has chosen to run a campaign like the one you are saying right now, where she is engaging and ridiculous attacks and smearing my campaign and she is trying to cut in not -- and not share the full picture.
the truth is i have always fought for arizona and i've been proud to serve our state in elected office for 13 years. arizonans know me and they know my record. i have been honored to fight for them. martha is trying to make the senate campaign about me, but what we know is this campaign is about every day arizonans. and i will fight for them. ted: we have to stop it right there. we have got to stop it. rep. mcsally: it is treason. she also called us crazy in arizona. ted: it is time now for closing statements. we begin with congresswoman kyrsten sinema. rep. sinema: i know firsthand the challenge that every day arizonans face. i was born in tucson and my family went through some tough times. for a while, we were homeless. but my childhood taught me the importance of working hard and the importance of helping others. i have taken those values with me to congress where even in the midst of washington chaos, i have been able to get stuff done
and just solve problems for arizonans. we passed the largest military raise for our military in a decade and we brought a race for congress. we supported our veterans, fought for health care access, suspended medicare and social security, and i proudly worked with senator john mccain to successfully protect $3.5 billion of funding for public education. i have been ranked the third most independent member of congress because i work across the aisle to get things done. arizonans deserve a leader in the united states senate who will be a voice for all arizonans, and i would be honored to have your vote. maria: thank you. for our final closing statement, we turn to congress one martha sally. rep. mcsally: you know me as a fighter. but i want to make sure you know why i fight. i lost my dad when i was 12. i was sexually abused by a coach as a teenager. and these events nearly crushed me. but by the grace of god, i was propelled to a life of service, fighting for and protecting
others. especially girls and women. there is a lot of stake in this election. you have a choice. the economy is on fire right now and we are rebuilding our military. america is back and arizona is back, thanks to president trump, governor ducey, and the republican house and senate. there is more opportunity for everyone. i want to keep fighting in the senate and you have a choice, someone who wore the uniform or someone who protested our troops. somebody who worked with senator mccain to save the a-10 or advocated to shut down luke. i would ask you to look at both of our records. i fought for country because i care about arizona and you and i would be honored to have your vote because i believe everyone deserves a chance to succeed and to be kept safe. ted: thank you both. that is it. for election 2018 debate, this one for the u.s. senate brought to you by arizona pbs and the arizona republic.
again, thank you for your participation and thank you for watching. ted: thanks again for joining us. you have a great evening. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2018] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] announcer: coming up live tuesday, a brief performance at 10:00 a.m. eastern. legislative business expected after election day. a heritage election -- a heritage foundation speech. other debates later in the day. his opponent.aces that is live at 7:00. in the texas race, ted cruz meets the democratic challenger beto o'rourke in san antonio at 9:00.
on c-span2, the conference on the future of medicare with the administrator of the medicaid services. formaormance -- a pro session at 12:00. and a conversation about russian election interference with mark warner. sunday on c-span's q and a, a professor at the ofversity of care fau -- california talks about his biography of chief justice john marshall. >> john marshall's legacy was obscured by a single opinion, his decision in marbury versus madison, which established presidents in judicial review. but the fact is john marshall was a soldier in the revolutionary army. he was very important. he served at valley forge. he was a leading