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tv   Washington Journal Michael Pillsbury  CSPAN  December 7, 2018 5:51pm-6:26pm EST

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a republican, and he autographed a poster for me, which we auction off at my first or second fundraiser in san antonio . i had a friend pay $1000 for that poster, it was the biggest contribution we have had so far. and he had the autographed from jimmy stewart, and has the poster at his house today. so that brings back happy memories, too. >> representatives. >> lamarr smith and michael capuano, on c-span and c-span.org, and listen on the free c-span app. >> michael still very is at our table, he is a senior fellow and director of the house and is that you'd center for middle east strategy, and also farmers rush assistant for middle eastern affairs during the george w. bush administration. thank you for being here, mr. pillsbury.
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-- george h.w. bush administration. president trump has called you the leading authority on china. what is your background? guest: i was born in california, that is why i am naturally friendly. i went to stanford and got a phd from columbia university, and was sent to study chinese were a couple of years. in those days, everyone thought that was insane. that china was poor, backward, angry, and seen as the cause of the vietnam war. there is a secretary of state when i was an undergraduate that said we are fighting in vietnam because a billion chinese will be coming south into the rice bowl of asia, so why not study chinese, is what i thought. this is the great enemy of our time. everything changed beginning with president nixon and pushed further by president h w bush. now we are shifting back towards
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seeing china as wary. knowing mandarin chinese and having this expensive education has been helpful. i'm no longer thought of as being completely insane. host: would you describe china as the great enemy today? not.: certainly our cooperation outweighs our competition. president trump has a different vision of china. he first wrote about it in a book 18 years ago. you can still buy his book called "the america we deserve." he says china is the greatest challenge our country will face. he is not angry and hostile in a military manner. he is talking about trade, the economy being ripped off by technology. it is prophetic. have you spoken to him? guest: i would not say spoken to. he questions me.
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he has tough questions and will basically want to know how the chinese think about various subjects. many times talked about the chinese saying to me they are afraid of him because of the tariffs. they have translated these discussions of china in his past books. one. is more than in one book he says to get leverage on the world's best, negotiators what he calls the chinese, i need to be unpredictable and put them off balance. he has succeeded. they often say, "he is the smartest president we have ever had to deal with." they give the reasons why.i tend to see this phase of president trump's relationship with china as unique. it is different than the original opening with president nixon and dr. kissinger.
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period.n a new there has been a lot of national security cooperation with china and the 2 economies are close together. the american side is feeling a little exploited. if you do an overly inflammatory metaphor, one person said to me, "this is like going on a date with a known rapist." this is all being covered on the front page of our newspapers. the strong bipartisan support for what trump is doing, nancy pelosi was one of the early critics of china, especially over the tiananmen incident. her relationship with the dalai lama. she took the lead to get him a congressional medal of honor and brought him to washington many times. chuck schumer, senator schumer,
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endorsed the tariffs the same day the president trump put them on. in this period of harmony and andor, the relationship policy towards china is a very example of bipartisan cooperation. you even saw this yesterday with senator warner saying huawei is an arm of the government. senator marco rubio said the same thing. this is a change from the china i have observed over the last 40 years. these conversations with the president, where are they, how do they come about, and what questions does he ask? guest: in the white house in his office and he has his advisors. i am not allowed to talk about the discussions or this would be my last visit to the oval
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office, but he is a sophisticated student of china. he has 12 to 14 hours with president xi jinping. he has a great deal of phone calls back and forth. sometimes president xi calls him, sometimes he calls president xi. the calls, according to the people present, are often an hour-long. this is a very rich relationship. i think it will easily manage an event like concerned everyone yesterday, the arrest of mrs. meng. host: let's talk about that. is thethis company, what fallout? guest: you are like president trump. [laughter] that 100 yearook marathon i have a discussion of the national champions system.
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in violation of their agreements with a joined the world trade organization, the chinese government and communist party will pick out a sector or company and nurturing with what for international norms would be illegal. they will spy for the company around therets from world. they will provide illegal subsidies to the company. 's case, the founder is a military officer. a couple of senators yesterday used the term "arm of the chinese government." they have roughly 100 companies called national champions. companya 35-year-old
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that was nothing when it began. they claim by their hard work espionage orith no subsidies. they have surpassed apple in sales of smartphones and turned into the world's second-largest telecom company. isn't that nice? that is no longer what experts think about huawei. the arrest, the request for extradition and presenting the evidence to the canadian authorities by the department of justice was providing the details, which could be revealed today. mrs. meng, according to canadians, will have a bail today. the judge will have to decide how bad it is. what is the bail? will he take her passport? will he leave her in jail?
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will he let her simply go back to china? the story tomorrow will be with a canadian judge decides on the evidence. the chinese do not see it that way. they have been on the phone with me and are very angry. "this is a human rights violation," the spokesperson said. she does not know what the charge is. a wonderful newspaper in china called "globalist times." attacking america all the time. the head of it is a friend of mine. he is territorial that this is an american plot to damage huawei because of huawei's growth. huawei is totally innocent and likeed the term that means hooligan behavior by the united states and canada.
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you can expect pressure on canada, too. you violated her human rights and let her go today. of the canadians will implement the rule of law in their agreements as well. host: what are they charging her with? guest: no one knows. one senator thought it was violation of the iran sanctions. was that thentator u.s. provided technology along the way. we used to say the national champion thing was good, why not? if they have technology mrs. men g may have signed an agreement "we will not transmit this to iran or north korea." this is pure speculation, but if she violated that that would justify the canadians detaining her. summit with the
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chinese president, the tariff truce. guest: it is a test of the relationship between president trump and president xi. the white house has made it clear that president trump did not know about this in advance. host: the arrest? guest: the arrest. this opens a challenge for the chinese side. they have conspiratorially thinking. this cannot be. he must have known as we sat down for dinner this arrest was taking place. i call that giving red meat to the conspiratorially thinkers in beijing. president trump has a lot of critics. they tend to jump on any little thing that goes wrong. i have noticed a cackle funnier voices, he has ruined the trade
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talks. how good he arrest mrs. meng. she is so prominent in china and this is terrible. the trade talks, according to a chinese statement yesterday, that the president tweeted last night, he says i agree with the statement, the chinese commerce ministry is saying we are confident there will be a good outcome of the talks within 90 days. the teams are working together already. it took some time for president xi and his team to get home. they stopped important goal. they stayed in argentina. they stayed in panama. there has not been immediate results since the dinner last saturday for good reason. i am quite confident this is not going to affect the trade talks. the criticism of president trump seems to be whenever there is an opportunity everyone has to
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attack can. him. host: the markets don't seem to like the back and forth either. is anotherpowell factor, but the huge drop began to as the market realize it is not as bad as it sounds and the president did not know, and in the chinese statement last night, stunning. president trump's reelection to some degree will hang on his promises. this is one of his biggest promises. he will fix the u.s.-china trade issue and he is well on his way to doing so. china, "theent from teams of both sides are having with eachmunication other. we are in full confidence an agreement can be reached in 90 ." s
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"i agree," says the president. says this ison inexcusable and executives should not travel. cis who sayss at if i was an american high-tech executive i would not be traveling to china now because they will take a hostage and try to have hostage negotiations.there is a one in 10,000 chance , but i would not advise american high-tech executives to not visit china. the prime minister of china two weeks ago announced, we will open our market wider than the last 40 years. they have been reducing the negative list. you cannot invest in the negative list sectors. that has been reduced so there are more investment possibilities and china. caution is needed. steal, they still
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break agreements. i am optimistic about the u.s.-china agreement, and so is president trump. host: hi, matthew. caller: good morning, c-span. hurting ournow, economy by starting a war with china. this war is an obvious mistake. think [indiscernible] guest: i just finished explaining my optimism. i don't think there is any declaration of economic war against china. we have to be careful that people want to refight the election.
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if you know a commentator or expert supporting hillary clinton or bernie sanders and they make a harsh comment, "president trump is starting an economic war with china," you have to correct. that is not a trump campaign supporter. the chinese will be able to do this. there are three chinese experts on american politics i know well . they are quite sophisticated about the nature of our debates, the supreme court. don'tof americans i meet have the sophistication of these high-level analysts in beijing who advise president xi. he is not an ignoramus who does not know much about what is going on in our politics. host: are you a trump supporter? guest: i was on the transition team. i supported a different candidate in the beginning. on the transition team in trump
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towers when i came to realize that he had a long list of campaign promises and was quite them.s about implementing i cannot claim to be a trump supporter from the beginning, but i am an admirer now, especially when the chinese express such admiration for him. good morning. i won't ask how you are because you are on live tv and you have probably answer that already. what do we do to influence china to be a moral influence in the world, and has that improved with this president of china? what is his attitude towards being a moral leader as a global power, and is it improving, or do we see it getting worse with him? guest: excellent question. i don't know the answer. i can tell you in my book i tried to calculate how much
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money and effort to we put into making china think more about democracy, following the rule, what you refer to as being a moral leader. this is the second biggest economy in the world. it looks like our democracy budget, democracy, human rights, freedom of religion, is very small. under $50 million a year. very few people are involved. there are very few programs. for example, the department of justice administers to strengthen a chinese bar association. they have a journal in china "alled "the rule of law journal to invite our judges to me chinese judges. impact.bably has some it seemed to have an impact in the environmental area. they did not have an environmental protection agency at all going back to the 1980's.
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with american funding they created an environmental protection agency and raised its higher.gher and they had none of this in the 1980's. these programs have some positive effect. i suspect that ought to be much bigger, even double. we have radio broadcasts in mandarin, voice of america and a radio free mandarin service. this has some influence, but frankly they also watch "house of cards." this feeds the conspiratorial thinking. cards" they are doing each other in, even murders. how the speaker of the house rises to become president. the chinese enjoy the show but think this is how things work in america. meng is arrested in vancouver and the americans say
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this is a minor law enforcement matter, nothing to do with the president, is not credible to the conspiracy thinkers watching "house of cards." 90-day care of truce, what happens? guest: the truce is not the goal. the goal, this is why the president has named ambassador lighthizer to be the negotiator -- he enjoyed great success in the 1980's in japan under president reagan, who i also worked for -- the idea is to convert the verbal commitments from president xi into a document that would be legally binding. somewhat to call it a treaty, somewhat to call it an agreement -- some want to call it a treaty, some want to call it an agreement.
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that is the idea. to come up with a written agreement negotiated by our trade attorney, ambassador lighthizer. they have a team. what they were saying in a statement last night at 8:00 p.m. at the president is quoting is that they are confident they can reach an agreement with us within the 90 days. after that, there could be wrangling and bickering if the agreement is being implemented. can get back to cooperation in some areas. there are other issues. the south china sea, human rights violations, the one million islamic leaders, you might call them, in these concentration camps. a long list of issues. the trade deficit can be solved. there has already been discussion of this. we can ask them to double their purchases of american exports.
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liquefied natural gas, or soybeans, airliners. long way too a helping president trump implement his campaign promise. host: the biggest demand of us. from them on us? we don't have to go through all 10, but what are the big ones? guest: they have complaints against the united states. story.s a very amusing president trump sent a delegation to beijing. everyone was concerned. the secretary of commerce, navarro, theer american side presented the chinese side with a document points subdivided into 24 under each 8.
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the 142 an annex called points. the chinese promptly leaked this . the american side somehow had the chinese 10 points and made them public. bloomberg ran the whole thing. online you could google the negotiating positions in the list would come up. the phase we are in now is more confidential. there has not been any significant leak of the three-our dinner. host: roger in virginia, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. my question, you're talking about the deficit -- can you hear me? host: yes. caller: donald trump was part of the trade deficit. guest: how so? caller: look at the jobs he has in china.
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why not bring some of that back and do away with some of that deficit? host: let's talk about that. guest: i don't think there is a trump hotel in china. host: trump ties being made in china. things made in china. guest: his critics have pointed out when you go into trump tower there is a gift shop to buy souvenirs. you turn them over and of this tie is made in china. products like that are more efficient and inexpensive to manufacture. that is part of the issue of the 2 economies. the economies are so inter-blended. the so-called global production chain. it is difficult to re -source. many companies are doing it now, going to indonesia and india, for manufacturing. a couple went into ivanka t rump's boutique in beijing.
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ivanka is very popular in china. with's a biography of her her smiling face looking very beautiful on the front cover. positive.book is the idea has been raised in american politics chelsea clinton will someday run against ivanka trump for president. who will win? they think ivanka will defeat chelsea. this is the image we have. the supply chain is part of it. they are very proud so many american products are made in china. host: grand rapids, michigan. caller: good morning, greta. i think you, mr. pillsbury. one comment i have is that i think america has a sanitized is. of who china
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when i was in school in the 1950's and 1960's it was called red china and it is still a communist country. and think of the chinese as another economic partner, which they are not. they are not our friends. instituteconfucius attached to various universities around the country. those things are very dangerous. thanks for your help to mr. trump. host: we were showing the book while you were talking. go ahead. guest: we are much more wary about china now than the last 40 years. it is what i, with good intentions and my heart, blame this on henry kissinger. he has not changed his mind. kissinger, tory whom i was an advisor, he never backed off the country's
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enthusiasm for china that began in 1971. that is what the chinese are worried about. they know some of their oldest friends have doubts. they have not yet publicly expressed concerns. on the other hand, you can go too far. there are a number of super hawks, more hawkish than i am. they ignore the cooperation, they ignore the benefits, they ignore the possibility of negotiating with the chinese to get them to reduce their worst abuses. it is good of you to bring up these concerns. i hope you buy "the 100 year marathon." you will find more to raise your concerns about china. the optimism about changing china is still with a lot of people, including me. i think that is one of president trump's goals he. s china to stop the theft
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and abuse. there is a long list. the chinese are very aware of this list. they are always checking, how much pressure do you have? how much of the congress supports you? how about dr. kissinger, did he see you and explain why you shouldn't do this? we have a policy debate about what to do about china. independent.an caller: good morning. i'm watching with great interest and i will get the book from the library. yes, sir, with respect to you and your years, the japanese in the late 1980's and 1990's were the first group that clued in to the veiled deceptive nature of china. there is a deep antipathy between the 2 nations, but they have clued me in and i have
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remained resolute that the business of pox -- 1 -- of hawks . one could be forgiven that at times you sound a bit like neville chamberlain. -- aism is a night nice thing. guest: i've never heard that before. there is always a first. the genocide in the 1950's. i want to focus on taiwan and trump. he used taiwan as a bargaining chip to taunt the chinese with no real -- he has thrown them under the bus. declared that the trump administration is going along with the one china policy. taiwan represents something spiritual, financial, and
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strategic. we have thrown them under the bus again. i reject this. i would like you to respond to taiwan. guest: it is a delight for me to find someone who out hawks me. i get a lot of criticism for washington. in i do not think you are right about throwing taiwan under the bus. president trump has done a number of things the taiwan government has expressed appreciation for. existence depends on having roughly 20 nations recognize their existence as a nation, down from 190 total. less than 20. some of the central american countries, when they began to change sides, president trump sent an envoy and raised objections to the trend.
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that is not throwing taiwan under the bus. there has been arms sales offered meeting taiwan's requirements which we have to do under the taiwan relations act, but not really. very vague that we would provide weapons to taiwan for self-defense. an aggressive arms sale package to taiwan to insight criticism -- to incite criticism from china. been instances where taiwan has been treated well by president trump. i would not say that i reject your criticism of him, i would just say it is not as bad as you think. the one china policy is not the way that we express it. when president trump made his first official comment as president -- he is very careful
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-- he said president xi has asked me, at president xi's by our onewill abide china policy. that phrase is different than what china says is the one china principle. the difference is to not accept that the sovereignty of china extends over taiwan. taiwan is in an undetermined category. the united states is following bill clinton, the first to say this, that whatever happens with the final solution on taiwan it has to have the consent of the people of taiwan. that to me implies a referendum. i do not agree with you on throwing taiwan under the bus. he has made it a crusade and tried to tell the chinese you need to be more like taiwan. some presidents have done that.
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host: what are you watching for over the coming days and weeks on this relationship and negotiations? guest: there are a number of things and play. whether or not the u.s. navy does patrols in the south china sea. that maneuver to keep their weapons radar turned on and launch helicopters during they chinese 12 mile limit. president trump has not done that. innocent passage, it is called. no harm go through in chinese. that has been done since president obama in 2012. challenging the chinese in the south china sea is one area. second, how quickly there are meetings between the delegations. third, when they set another round of visits. visitill president trump beijing and president xi jinping here. here's never made an official state visit. ae mar-a-lago trip was
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personal session. these are the three to watch. i suspect there will be progress on all three. you can tell that i am an optimist and receiving criticism from the super-hawks. host: >> president trump signed a short-term federal spending bill today funding certain agencies through december 21. the house, senate, an white house have two weeks to work on a package covering homeland security, agriculture and other agencies. watch live coverage of the u.s. house on c-span and see the senate on c-span . host: erik wasson is with us, he's a congressional reporter. now that the president signed a continuing resolution to continue funding, now there's two weeks for

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