tv Washington Journal Cynthia Miller- Idriss CSPAN August 8, 2019 9:57pm-10:35pm EDT
>> we will have more from the iowa was safer tomorrow with speeches by lynn castro, andrew yang, tulsi gabbard. day, democratic presidential candidate will be in iowa for the annual fundraiser put on by local .emocratic counties 1979, c-span opened the doors to washington policy, breaking -- bringing you
[inaudible] your unfiltered view of government so you can make up your own mind. miller-idriss joins us for a discussion on white supremacy in the united states. she is a professor here in d.c., a senior's -- a senior fellow at the center for analysis of the radical right. explain some of the terms we hear in this discussion, white supremacy, white nationalists, neo-nazi. what is the difference? guest: everyone is confused about this. no one has a complete agreement on it. your question is well-placed. refer to the far right as a spectrum of ideologies that includes white supremacist extremism but also a range of other kinds of systems oneliefs and
the far right spectrum including antigovernment. what we have been talking about is white supremacist extremism. that is an ideology that most people understand to include dehumanizing kinds of -- kinds of racism and homophobia. two parts, ades sense of existential dread. you have been hearing the great replacement theory part of the manifesto in christchurch and reportedly in el paso. they believe that they are accident -- existentially at threat, going to be replaced by immigrants, that there will be a white genocide. the third doctrine is acceleration, that there obligation is to accelerate societal discord through violence to bring about a new world order. that is what we talk about when we talk about weight super assist extremism.
it is not just the ideology that is troubling but this other set of beliefs. viewers can call in as we have this conversation. they are split up regionally. (202)-748-8000 if you live in the eastern or central time zones. (202)-748-8001 in the mountain or pacific time zones. what are the estimates of the number of groups there are in the united states in the membership of these groups. host: the numbers -- guest: the numbers are hard to gauge. the roots of this go back a long time. the modern roots of it are traced to after the vietnam war when you had disgruntled veterans coming back feeling like they were betrayed by the government, starting with patriot militias and evolving into what you remember, waco and ruby ridge and oklahoma city. we had groups you could document and understand
and measure. now that this is sort of what people call sometimes a much more leaderless movement where a lot of the radicalization happens online, you can measure hate speech, you can measure tens of thousands, people posting and engaged in some of , but far right platforms that is part of the challenge, as we have not had the federal capacity in law enforcement and monitoring to understand the numbers because there has not been a focus. host: why not? guest: a couple different reasons. since 9/11, there has been an overwhelming focus on international security and islamic extremism and resources have been devoted to that. there have been cutbacks in to target domestic extremism and there has been a neglect of the capacity building within higher education. we have departments of terrorism
which tend to focus on islamic extremism. a lot of documents are coming out and much less is being produced in terms of the knowledge we have to help experts in the government. a seat change is about to happen and you can feel it in the air , a lot ofwith the fbi people calling for more resources and attention. i think that is very much what has happened in other countries after the terrorist attacks in 2011 in norway. theive investments and norwegian government has the largest research center studying the far right and white supremacists -- and white supremacist extremism. host: how did it get started? guest: this is where you start to understand how new this is. this is an effort started by folks in the u.k..
it was a u.k. based group to pull together scholars and connect them with the public. the website has several dozen senior scholars and policy fellows and more jr. scholars ,ho write insight blogs op-ed's, they are posted with media partners and they try to connect that knowledge with the public to better inform everyone about the far right. they have scholars representing every region of the world. host: for folks who hear the name, the center for the analysis of the radical right, is there a radical left and what is the difference? guest: there is a radical left. there is a whole spectrum here. left, and there is even a terrorist left, eco-terrorism, animal-rights terrorism. when we are talking about the extreme fringes of the political spectrum, i am talking about people who are willing to use
violence and even hurt civilians in order to make a political statement or because they believe they are advancing a political agenda. on the far left, those extremists have tended to -- it is more arson, those kinds of attacks which tend to have fewer casualties. we are seeing a lot more lethality in white supremacist extremism than any other form of extremism in the u.s. and that has been important for region -- that has been important regionwide. host: cynthia miller-idriss taking your calls. for central time zones, (202)-748-8000. or mountain or pursue for -- pacific time zones, (202)-748-8001. caller: good morning. argument refute her that white supremacy is the problem in the united states. i would refer someone -- i would
refer people to look at heather mcdonnell book, diversity delusion. the numbers just don't add up. trying to hide from you, she talks about the extreme left as being animal-rights activists. she leaves out black lives matter and antifa and purposely leaves out that the dayton, ohio shooter was documented as a far leftist. this is not what they want you to see, the truth. if you look at what miss mcdonnell said, she was on the news the other day. blacks for example represent 50% on actual hate crimes and you have to look at that as a ratio. to put in perspective, look at world war ii. the coast guard lost more people per capita than any other branch of the military. if you look at the ratio of numbers of people in the united states, you look at the number of people by race and ethnicity
and you see who is actually committing more crimes against the citizenry. host: let's give the professor a chance to respond. guest: i think the data speaks for itself on the lethality question. that has been documented in testimonies to congress and the inference -- and the antidefamation league has presented information on this as well. the most lethal form of extremist terrorism violent -- terrorist violence in the u.s. and that is why we need more attention to this particular form of terrorism from the federal government. host: can you explain this replacement theory a little bit more and how it has evolved from a superiority theory into a fear of replacement? guest: replacement theory has been around for a long time. in the u.s. it usually has historically been called white genocide by the extreme right. thed lane, a neo-nazi in 1980's was talking about white
genocide and these kinds of fears of change through immigration and demographic replacement. a french scholar coined the phrase the great replacement and that caught on with many very extremists whoht are concerned about this idea that there is a demographic change coming, that whites will be the minority in europe and the u.s. in the u.s., we know that to be true in the next couple of decades and this gets framed as an existential threat. you'll even hear people say things like this is what happened to the native americans. they use the native americans as a cautionary tale saying -- i have heard people say things like white americans lined up on deepvations, this real seated fear of an existential threat from this kind of change. that is called the great replacement. it is that is a shinning of
demographic change as a threat to an entire group of people. host: how do they get to concern about that and fear of that, to wanting to accelerate some sort of final showdown? guest: there is this third part of this set of beliefs which is called acceleration, the belief is on the extreme fringe, this is the extreme fringe but echoes of this show up in mainstream rhetoric. the extreme fringe believes that the inevitable result, the way to get change and restore a white civilization is a new world order at the end of an apocalyptic race war and the best and fastest way to get there is to increase polarization through violence. this is what makes them believe they are engaging in heroic action and you will hear words like going in, going to save my people, i cannot sit by and watch my people get slaughtered.
host: where there echoes of this in what we saw in isis? trying to accelerate some kind of final showdown? guest: very much so. we call that reciprocal attic lies a. sometimes isis attacks are celebrated by far right extremists across the world as part of the same process. in that sense, the dayton attack , some motivation is coming out, the misogyny is him and other things, i am not commenting on it because it is still very much in flux, exactly what those motivations were. was the dayton attack celebrated by far right extremists because it contributes to the same end goal which is acceleration toward a new world order. host: marble town, georgia, jerome is next. caller: good morning. i am an individual that has
atnd myself -- if you look the first part that was ratified regulated well militia is across the nation. we have a national guard that to stope prepared outside influences. i have carried a knife or a gun since i was 15 years old. i have been blessed throughout --life but host: in this segment we are talking about white supremacy in the u.s. are you concerned about militias being thrown into that category? caller: i am a black male. 69 years old. -- detroit,o carry
michigan is where i am from and they talk about chicago. i lived in dearborn, michigan and the suburbs and i always concern myself of being accosted by white officers, especially. i am 69 years old. host: that is jerome out of georgia. katie is next out of virginia. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. petitioning -- i think all lives matter. i think there should be a psychiatry evaluation for anyone who wants a legal pathway to gun ownership. in podunkgangs here ,irginia and central virginia crips, bloods, the arian race, the ku klux klan and if these
guys get a gun, it will be a massacre. host: what do you take from those calls? guest: a couple different things. about comparing this to gangs, i think one of the things i would emphasize is that we see a lot of similarities, both across isis and gang engagement of young right ind the far terms of a desire to belong and being a part of something bigger and better for the -- bigger and better than themselves and that the changes going to help them enact a sense of purpose. also resist and express their anger and resentment at things that are not going right in their lives. i think you are right that when you layer that on to gun laws, you have a recipe for potential disaster, especially when you are talking about young people
who may be more impulsive. host: we talked about organization of white supremacy groups. is?you explain what 8chan guest: it is a number of wet -- web platforms that are not monitored essentially or allow unmonitored and any kind of comments to be posted. 8chan has been one of the sites that has been a place where a lot of hateful things get posted , and in many ways it kind of performance -- a kind of ferments.- it kind of host: is that the only place? guest: there were many others. some of the others -- one of the things about monitoring these and banning the sites is that they sometimes -- people get kicked off of these mainstream platforms like twitter and they that is notomething
a legitimate platform or is much worse in terms of its population. host: how do they organize enough to know we are all going to migrate over here now because this got shut down? guest: this happens virally through the kind of communications online but also through messaging and encrypted messaging platforms. there are lots of ways. we saw with the riots in germany, people could fill the streets and a couple of hours, mostly motivated or mobilized over things like whatsapp. host: our next caller is out of pittsburgh, pennsylvania. caller: good morning. two questions. let me ask you this. kids shoved ack retarded kid in feces and urine, was that racist?
when six black kids beat a white boy on a bus, was that racism? ferguson, when he picked on a cop and got killed, was that racism? was obama inviting black lives matter to the white house, the people that shot at and killed the cops, was that racism? certainly there are racially motivated crimes from all groups. what we are talking about here is larger scale mobilized far right extremism enacted through terrorist activities. these are different kinds of conversations. obviously everyone wants crime in general to be reduced that this is not a question about crime. we are talking about terrorism. host: is this mainly a u.s. problem? guest: absolutely not.
white nationalism tends to suggest that this is a national issue or that this is really about the american nation but in fact, things are very inc. -- interconnected. it is a global movement. they are inspired by each other, they are sending each other manifestoes they are communicating and listening to each other's music and buying each other's brand-name clothing which has messages about white supremacist ideology in it. interwoveny much across eastern and western europe and australia and new zealand. host: how much are the governments of europe and the united states and justi -- and new zealand, how much do they work together on these issues? guest: there is some conversation happening. i think governments in europe are doing a much better job at communicating with each other. there are very few scholars for
example who work across europe on the issue of the far right but places like the center for right-wing extremism which now has dozens of scholars from several different countries, becomes a place where governments can access resources. host: why was that attack in particular such a flashpoint for this movement? guest: it was significant for a number of different ways. the fast majority of people who were killed were children, young people and young children. he killed them because they were liberal. he believed he was getting rid of the next generation of people who were going to bring about multicultural norway by our etiquette in a young generation of future political leaders. that horrified the whole world. the idea that that would be a politically motivated attack.
it was an incredibly large scale. a 1500 page manifesto that heavily referenced these kinds of theories around a great replacement and what is called -- this idea that europe will turn into a region with islamic rule. see was where we sorted to some of this global interconnectedness coupled with extreme violence. host: several of the attacks in the united states have referenced that 1500 page manifesto. guest: the christchurch shooter also. we are seeing that global interconnectedness. host: oak hill, west virginia. joyce, good morning. caller: good morning. white supremacy has been in the united states for a long time. when the united states cavalry took the land from the native americans and put them on reservations.
when the slaveowners sent their men to africa and kidnapped my ancestors and brought them here. jim crow era. the civil rights movement. your serial killers. your mass shooters. white supremacy has been around a long time and maybe even back in the bible times. i think you are right. as a country in many ways, right off the bat with the genocide of it was foundeds, on white supremacist been -- principles. talking about white supremacy and its roots in the u.s., what we are seeing right now is more the modern set of white supremacist extremism dating back to the post-vietnam era when we saw this coupling of white supremacy itself which had
a much longer legacy, with this organized armed militia and antigovernment rhetoric that kind of created mass violence coupled with white supremacy. host: john in florida, good morning. states, it isited natural to assert that unit states is weitzer premises because 60% of the population is white. they also have the greatest social experiment in the history of the world. the supposed civil war experiment was that mass-produced modern weapons, repeating arms in the hands of a whole population made it the most lethal population on earth and the civil war never really was resolved. got to gong force away with their guns and became outlaws in the west. the six shooter was designed by colt for a single slaveowner to
be able to control many. this is been going a long time. the guns have been around forever. what is different now is young kids -- it is just like the jihadi's. they have old guys on the internet trying to lure young guys. these old guys don't have the guts to start a war. they need these young guys. they recruit them, young disaffected men. had these medications. they are all part of a thing. you have modern realistic media. it is almost a combat simulator. you look at the virginia tech shooter. , 49 people,eople killed 32 with two concealed pistols. the magazines are a thing. host: you bring up a lot of
issues. guest: that was a very rich set of different things going on. both john and joyce the previous caller really emphasize an important point which has to deal with a long history of the u.s.. theink john's point about complex nature of trying to disentangle what causes a person to move into violent action and the truth is, with all the knowledge we have, no one really knows what motivates one individual to become violent compared to another. we understand what moves them into those pathways and the gateways to extremism and we understand how social media works and the role of things like gun access, but also a sense of inclusion and disenfranchisement. a lack of belonging or connection. we understand how those things make people vulnerable but we need much more research and knowledge on what clicks the switch to make one person move
into violent action compared to another. john made the connection when it came to jihadi terrorism on the recruitment side that it is old guys trying to recruit young guys to do it. is there that kind of recruitment happening on the internet for white supremacy? guest: there definitely is recruitment happening on the internet. in this case, i don't know how much older they are. what you are having here is white supremacist -- white supremacist extremism in the far right extremist fringes in general on the antigovernment toe having figured out how -- they are far ahead on tech for us compared to scholars and policymakers and they also learned how to weaponize youth culture in the -- in a way that we have not quite figured out how to address. they know how to draw people in with humor, with music, with gun culture and style and mixed martial arts.
all of those things -- i think john is right, there is definitely recruitment but in this case it is not necessarily older versus younger but it is understanding youth culture and drawing them in. host: as we try to get a grasp on how big this movement is, some numbers for our viewers from the southern poverty law center. listing of hate groups in the u.s. from 2018. different white nationalist groups in the united 63tes, 112 neo-nazi groups, racist skinhead groups, 51 ku klux klan groups, 36 io confederate groups. -- neo-confederate groups. that was a 50% increase year in white nationalist groups. at a recent senate oversight hearing, the fbi director talked about the number of domestic terror arrests that have happened just in 2019 so far.
here is a bit of what he had to say. [video clip] >> what we have here is a statement on this unclassified joint intelligence report that --ween the years of 2016 2000 and 2016, white supremacists were responsible for more homicides than any other extremism movement. i see the distinction you are making, homegrown versus domestic. can you quantify either one of them for us? >> in terms of number of arrests, through the third quarter of this fiscal year, we have had about give or take 100 arrests in the internet -- on the international terrorism side which includes homegrown. we have also had just about the same number, don't quite -- don't quote me to the exact digit on the domestic terrorism side and i will say that a majority of the domestic
terrorism cases that we have investigated are motivated by some version of what you might call white supremacist violence but it includes other things as well. host: cynthia miller-idriss, your thoughts on his comments? guest: what is important to understand here is how much we have underestimated until recently, the portion of domestic extremism and terrorist violence him that is -- violence that is perpetrated by white and that typeoups of testimony is showing that and that type of testimony is showing that clearly. i really think there has been a seat change in how the government is responding to this in the u.s. and abroad. host: cynthia miller-idriss, professor at american university, a senior fellow at the center for analysis of the radical right. you can find that group on the internet at
radicalrightanalysis.com. we are having this conversation for about the next half-hour. phone lines split up regionally. in the eastern or central time zones, (202)-748-8000. in the mountain or pacific time zones, (202)-748-8001. we are having this conversation about white supremacy in the u.s. almost two years to the day of the neo-nazi march in darla saville. taking your phone calls. sandy is next in youngstown, ohio. she is citing a study from the u.k., is that it? guest: no. i am part of a group of scholars in the u.k. at a center there, so i was talking about that center but not citing a specific study but i am happy to answer questions. caller: a group of scholars that go out and talk to people? do you go and ask somebody if
they are a white supremacist? you said you don't know how many there are and that would probably be be -- probably be because there aren't any. host: how would you respond to that? guest: those scholars are all people who do empirical research with a wide variety and different ways online. in germanyominantly and increasingly in the u.s. and i interview young people in and around far right scenes and conduct interviews and talk to them about their beliefs. it is incredibly informative and i think the scholars at that center, we have historians, psychologists, people who work from all different kinds of disciplines coming from different perspectives and countries talking about the far right. host: how do you get them to talk to you? guest: i work through schools and i go into schools where i know there is a high population of young people who are a part of this. that is easier in germany
because there are some geographic focus and you also have vocational schools where certain occupations have higher participation from the far right , a height -- a higher risk i should say, and then i have found that they are will he will -- they are really willing to talk. these are young people who get involved are all -- almost across the board who get involved from a very young age, 12 to 15 and a lot of them are formerly engaged when they talk to me and they got caught up in something before they really had a full understanding of what alternatives were. host: why are they willing to talk? guest: that is a good question. everybody loves to talk about themselves. they were interested in talking to an american in some cases but they have been really open. young peoples on in and around far regroups --
far right groups. fromadjusted in knowing young people who were drawn to it -- you were not drawn to it, how they resisted it. how you become less vulnerable. of those youngne people that sticks out to you? guest: there are a lot of them that stick out. hearld say often what i our young people who say things like -- i had one in my first book tell me he believed in everything that the neo-nazis believed he was too lazy to be a neo-nazi, that was the quote. it meant he was not going to be out and politically engaged, he was not interested in violence that he was supportive. trying to understand what motivates one person who holds these beliefs to become violent versus another person who doesn't is an important thing we need reap -- we need more research on. host: that first book, blood and culture, youth and right-wing
extremism and a sense of belonging. it came out in 2009. our next caller is in florida. caller: good morning. guest: good morning. caller: since president trump has acknowledged he is a white,list, his skin is would you consider him to be a white nationalist? that what isk important to understand, so president trump did use language saying he is proud to be a nationalist. he was contrasting that with language of what is called the globalist. that raised a lot of feathers both among far right scholars and globally because sometimes the term globalist is used in far right conspiracy theories to refer to jews. there was a concern that that was an anti-semitic comment.
i don't think it was meant that way. , ahink a lot of the rhetoric lot of the rhetoric that you hear from not just president trump. i want to be clear, there were a lot of mainstream politicians doing it. the rhetoric that is used to reinforce a sense of replacement , language around invasion, talking about immigration and dehumanizing language about other people from mexico and telling congresswomen to go back, that language has not helped and it legitimizes a lot of white supremacist ideology and we have to think about how mainstream political rhetoric announcer: c-span's washington journal, lives every day with news and policy issues that you.t
coming up friday morning, scott paul with the alliance for american manufacturing talks about manufacturing jobs and trump administration trade policies. and as part of our podcast week, we talk with the podcast host of "congressional dish." be sure to watch live at 7:00 eastern friday morning. join the discussion. earlier
this evening, president trump announced he is nominating the acting director of national intelligence. on twitter, the president stated admiral maguire has a long and distinguished career in the military, retiring from the navy in 2010, he commanded at every level, including the naval special warfare command. he has also served as a national security fellow at harvard university. i have no doubt he will do a great job. admiral maguire has served as ahead head of the national counterterrorism center since november has.
will be responsible for intel sharing operations among several agencies. c-span has live coverage of the 2020 presidential candidates at the iowa state fair. friday come be our live at 10:00 a.m. with former hud secretary julian castro, and with governor jay inslee senator kamala harris,, senator amy klobuchar, senator kirsten gillibrand former colorado governor, john hickenlooper, senator elizabeth warren, and senator cory booker. watch the candidates live at the iowa state fair friday and saturday on c-span. watch anytime online at c-span.org, or listen live from wherever you are on the go, on the free c-span radio app. next, a look at u.s. relations with iran, and what can be done