tv Viewpoint With Eliot Spitzer Current April 12, 2012 8:00pm-9:00pm PDT
a great night, stay right here pitzer and join us tomorrow. see you then. ♪ >> good evening, i'm eliot spitzer and this is viewpoint the g.o.p. trying to turn the war on william against the white house. after she criticized mitt romney's wife ann. what you have is mitt romney running around the country telling me my wife tells me what is economic issues and when i listen to my wife that's what i'm hearing, guess what? his wife has never worked a day in her life and she's never dealt with the kind of economic issues that a majority of the women in this country are
facing. >> the g.o.p. punched back saying rosen was going off stay at home moms and ann romney responded on twitter apparently the first time i made a choice to stay home and raise five boys, believe me it's hard work and romney countered rosen again this time on fox news listen. >> maybe i haven't struggled as much financially as some people have. i can tell you and promise you, that i've had struggles in my life. and i would love to have people understand that mitt and i have compassion for people that are struggling. >> hillary rosen tried to fight back tweeting and again, when i said on anderson cooper ann romney never worked i meant she never had to care for her kids and earn a paycheck like most american women. truth. but true or not, the obama campaign was clearly unhappy that rosen had allowed republicans to turn the war on women theme against them. campaign manager jim messina tweeted and i quote, i could not
disagree with hillary rosen any more strongly her comments are wrong and family should be off limits. she should apologize. >> and white house press secretary jay carney claimed he didn't know if rosen had visited the white house 35 times as records seem to suggest. >> i don't know how many times she's been here. i don't know how to assess her overall relationship with people here in the white house. but i do not -- i have not seen her here very frequently. >> rosen then apologized for her remarks frequently while still trying to make her point. >> i should not have chosen words that seemed to attack ann romney's choice in life and i apologize for that. but ann romney and mitt romney brought themselves into this conversation. i hope mrs. romney knows that i didn't mean it personally. i was trying to talk about the economic issues, but you know this is going to be an ugly campaign season. >> which may be why president obama later said.
>> i don't have a lot of patience for commentary about the spouses of political candidates. >> and just to keep this conversation going i'm joined by the editor and publisher of nation magazine, thank you for being here is this a gaffe or the truth, a foot in mouth disease or an segacious comment. >> i think that hillary rosen was right when she said i think there is going to be an ugly campaign and president obama is right not much use to with all of these problems for commentary on spouses. listen, this is a debate that the country has been having for many years about the role of women, at home and work and of course, being a full-time mother is work it's a job. ann romney was fortunate to be able to stay at home with her five sons, but she hasn't experienced a lot of economic hardships women have and i don't think this should distract or detract from the fundamental
core issues women face in this country, whether it's sick pay day leave, equal pay and contraception, and mitt romney wants to change the subject badly. >> you were doing a wonderful job getting us into substantial, i'm not going to let you do that. and i know that's what we want to talk about. let's talk about politics for a moment. clearly, you now have a moment where the romney campaign feels that this yawning chasm, the women's vote it had been ahead and many of us thought it was remarkable and they're seeing a possible argument. gaping gender gap. >> and they may not only make ann romney seem humeanizing mitt. >> it's going to be very hard. it's one day in a news cycle, game on in this presidential cycle. you know mitt romney wants to do a kind of etch-a-sketch,
redefinition of what he's said during the primaries about women. they know they're in a bad place, you mentioned the gaping gender gap. don't forget by the way the republican party has lost in terms of the gender gap in terms of every presidential election since 1980. what we saw yesterday was a campaign the romney campaign that is primed for a modern presidential campaign. they were ready to go. they tweeted, they brought out ann romney they did everything. but as someone wrote the other day, mitt romney can't outsource his policy on women to his wife and he's trying to do that as if women are a foreign country and he needs a translator. >> i want to get to that in a moment. because, obviously, the substantial of a republican, whether you call it a war on women or not. the war metaphors when it comes to domestic policy. i want to parse those in a moment. you had an interesting column in your magazine, and online basically hillary rosen was right because as you just said ann romney didn't go through the anxieties, the difficult choices
that those who have to take care of kids and work have to face. do you believe that's the case? do you think that ann or mitt i don't want to personalize it. >> sure. >> do you think they don't understand the difficulties and the choices? >> i certainly think that mitt romney don't understand the difficulties and the choices. he's lived a very privileged life he is the classic 1% sort of pin-stripe extremist. and i think what you see in ann romney is somebody who is sympathetic, but hasn't experienced what millions of women in this country have which is where do you find child care for you kid if you need to go to work or the waitress in nevada who has to put food on the table while also paying for health care for her kids. so, yet, this is a couple who in a curious irony in this moment in history eliot, where we have gilded age inequality they prep the kind of plutocracy in this country. and she seems a sympathetic person and i think there has been unfairness to her where she said i don't feel rich he shoo i had is an at one point, or i
feel i've suffered a lot and people make fun of that. she has suffered there's been illnesses and cancer and that's beside the point and we shouldn't get caught up too much in the personalities. >> let me stop you, i agree with you. the interesting thing about american politics is there have been moments and i'm not sure this is one of them. there have been moments where that gilded plutocracy has appealed to the public. understand some of the kennedy mystique. >> yeah, but that was a very different moment in american history and there was a sense of youth and ideaism and i think this country right now, eliot a lot of i think a site and discontent, but, boy, is there a sense that the system is rigged against ordinary people and that people haven't gotten their fair share and 1% making out like bandits and he's the classic 1 percenter. i think the buffet rule and the fair taxation and the sense of fairness is a classic american quality which i think people look at the romneys and you look
at the paid 13.9%, having made 21 million, that doesn't play well with a lot of people. >> i agree with you, you know i've been out there and obviously. >> i know you have. >> those are critical movements, but i'm not as persuaded as you, somebody who is from that 1%. look at fdr, teddy roosevelt some of our greats have come from there and it's not necessarily that you come from that, it's how you exude, what you exude in terms of understanding. do you think again, the poll the other day that said that opportunity was a more powerful argument than fairness. can mitt romney turn himself into somebody people-- >> the president is talking a lot about fairness and also opportunity. and notice the polls show that people don't really like mitt romney. they're worried about jobs and the economy and there was a great little nugget in that poll which said that more people are concerned about fairness in the economy than the quote, hyper regulation of the economy, which
is code word really for government. so i think there's a lot to work with and i totally agree with you that some of the great, you know, people who have changed our country have come from backgrounds of privilege, but they overcome that to understand that you need to stand with ordinary people and i don't see that with mitt romney. >> i don't think there's any question teddy roosevelt, fdr spoke a completely different language than mitt romney they're poles apart. and let's dig into the you be is standings for a moment. what was mitt romney's record as governor. put aside the flip-flop on every issue, look at the track record when he was ceo of bain and governor of massachusetts, did he reflect an understanding of gender issues? did he-- >> gender issues? if you'd let me go back go back to his parents, put aside the father who helped to create the minimum wage and fought for collective bargaining in michigan, and his mother ran for senate on the a strong
reproductive rights program. >> and a planned parenthood fundraiser you're looking at someone who pandered and sold his soul in a way more than barry goldwater who relished it. >> i wonder what he would say and the choice of gender inequality and hiring women and-- >> this is going to be an interesting test for him. the other day there were people on the call about the lili ledbetter fair pay act and he didn't know his position was, he came out and said he supports it it's alienated conservatives in his party and that's an example of the ongoing tension inside this race. >> the primary is over and the metaphor last week was the etch-a-sketch candidate provided to us on a cylinder platter or a gold plated platter. >> gilded platter. >> this is romney 4.0 and we
don't know where that weather vane stops. >> aen how much room he has to play and the electorate is a tough one there now. >> thank you so much for coming on. >> thank you. >> there's no federal rule prohibiting employment based on sexual orientation, the president ensures that stays true. next on viewpoint. [ male announcer ] this is lawn ranger -- eden prairie, minnesota. in here, the landscaping business grows with snow. to keep big winter jobs on track at&t provided a mobile solution that lets everyone from field workers to accounting, initiate, bill and track work in real time. you can't live under a dome in minnesota that's why there's guys like me. [ male announcer ] it's a network of possibilities -- helping you do what you do... even better. ♪ ♪ [ female announcer ] e-trade was founded on the simple belief that bringing you better technology
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no bs, the real thing, cutting through the clutter. my show is the most important show in the world. is on the new news network. >>welcome to the war room. >>jennifer granholm joins current tv. a former two-term governor. >>make your voice heard. >>detremined to find solutions. >>that partnership in order to invest in our country is critical. >>driven to find the truth. >>how did romney get his groove back? >>fearless, independent and above all, politically direct.
henderson. president of venn strategies penny lee and former advisor to the mccain campaign, ford o'connell, thank you all for being here let me throw this to nia-malika first. am i the only one who is absolutely shocked that in this day and age there is not a federal law barring discrimination based on sexual orientation? >> i think most people actually don't know that this is actually the case. i think if you were to ask people, they would join in your shock that this actually isn't the law of the land that there aren't states that do include in in their anti-discrimination. i think there is some hope when you look at most companies, fortune 500 -- fortune 500 companies, most of them do have rules on the books that bar discrimination along these lines, but i think you see a president that doesn't want to be seen as an activist when it comes to these issues of sexuality, and transgender issues as jay carney has said he is taking this approach where he wants the legislature to act
first and then he would follow. but i do think he does sort of underestimate the fact that i do think that some of the heat has been taken away from these issues, if you look at the polls, most polls show that over 50% of americans actually agree that same sex marriage should be the law of the land, but he's taken a bit of a timid stance on this about lesbian, lgbt activists would think. >> and what are the odds that the republican candidate mitt romney is going to say i'm going to outdo the president, i would sign such an order the republicans want it conservatives want it why doesn't he do something counter intuitive and do that? >> because he's the challenger he can take a wait and see approach and probably wiser, given that the president has decided to pass the buck on to congress because what he's really doing is gaming the electoral map. if we look at the battle ground states closely we see they're not as conservative with gay
rights as the rest of the nation northeast and west coast. and clearly by the most of them have a same sex ban. the president does what he does best when he's backed into a corner and that's kick the buck on to someone else in in case it's going to be congress and mitt romney is going to sake a wait and see approach. >> penny, are you going to sit there and take this the president is playing politics with civil rights this is the president hope and change he can't possibly be doing that. >> i think he did exactly that unfortunately. and he also took the political calculation and said where else are they going to go. i was talking to one of the activists this afternoon and he said essentially that. you know, at his worst day he's with us 90% on our issues and mitt romney's worstdy-- or best day, 10%. what they're asking him instead, help us elect more so we don't have the firestorm and issued an executive order, the firestorm we maybe received in congress work with us to actually get
this passed as a federal law, i'm with you, it's something that needs to be passed and not left to 50 individual states many, many of them who do not pass such a law. >> penny, let me hop in for one second. we're looking at the thirdway poll he will eliot, the true swing independents, what they saw the president as being slightly more progressive on social issues than mitt romney. >> i hope-- >> and some are calculating. >> so if we all agree, this is a political calculus by the president. doesn't that in a way undercut what certainly was his fundamental brand when he ran in '08, which is the principle and principle of civil rights and hope was going to guide rather than the raw sort of old-fashioned political calculus of washington d.c.? isn't there another harm that could inner to him if he doesn't do something aggressive on this?
nia-malika, what do you think? >> i don't think so. most politicians campaign as the anti-politicians then ear going to be above the back and forth and the political spin. we know that actually governing and getting reelected is a whole different matter so i don't think it will hurt him. they're making the calculus they should stay away from who the button issues so they can appear to the center right of this country and i think, i think all the matly won't be a-- ultimately it won't be an issue. >> basically we're told by this white house, sit tight, let us win, next january we'll get a different president and maybe the progressive president so he's basically dealing with us the way he dealt with the soviet union, russia i suppose, give me breathing room after the election i can tell you what i really think, between now and then not so much. >> shocking we're in a political season and we're taking political calculations and everything before us. he's smart politically he's going out there and picking and choosing the right issues that he cobbles together that
coalition that he needs to win and addressing those issues and constituents that want to sit there and help him get reelected again as ford was saying in the key battle ground states. so, yes, we were in the political season every word every issue is now put into that prism, so it's of no surprise what he's doing, what he's done today. >> okay, i'm going to put each of you on the spot. is there any one of you who doesn't think that as a matter of substance this would have been the right thing to do sign that executive order, eliminate discrimination based upon gender? does anybody out there really think this shouldn't happen? >> all right. i take silent and you're a republican conservative voice out there, ford i see a consensus where the public is way ahead of the president and i think he could have shown himself to be a much grander president with deeper thoughts had he actually had the guts to sign this. i'm personally disappointed. i think that many in the progressive community will be disappointed on civil rights in particular, he didn't do this. all right, let's switch gears for a minute. the trio of you, joe biden is becoming the attack dog, he said
we've got a romney rule the rich don't pay much in taxes and we've got a buffet rule that the president believes in, rich pay their share. is this going to be the fundamental debate over the course of this campaign penny, what do you think. >> absolutely, and they're couching it right and couching it on the values fairness and opportunity and that's how he needs to be talking about it otherwise he's going to get caught into what the republicans are likely to say which is the class warfare and pitting one against the other. no, this is about economic fairness and economic opportunity and the principles that he's putting forth with the buffet rule and other things are addressing that need to be able to strengthen that middle class and lift those on the bottom rung up. so this is exactly what he needs to be doing in could uchg-- couching it in the way of values. ford you were saying the battle ground swing voters preferred a message of opportunity over to one of fairness and your candidate, mitt romney is a success story, yet, he has managed to become the target of
1% and the representative of the 1% rather than a great american success story. how has he bungled that messaging, can he get it back? >> i think he can get it back. what he has to do he's got to be comfortable with his wealth hey, i've been blessed and i want the rest of america to experience the opportunities that i have. if the president pushes the buffet rule too far, it could be his trojan horse, and whether romney can have it the right way opportunity for americans and their kids. that's what it manies could down to. i think the buffet rule right now is a political gimmick for the president to get the base and media on his side. again, seven months we've got a long time. >> i think the buffet rule is the right policy and much beyond, but i'm intrigued and kind of mystified that mitt romney who should have turned his venture capital career you take risks and build businesses. by not releasing tax returns and
playing defense on every issue he has somehow become the sort of visible symbol of the 1% rather than somebody who says i've created opportunities for others, i don't see anything coming out of his mouth that turns that message around. >> yeah we're going to find out. he's going to have to do that he's going to have to say, that you, know i'm comfortable with my wealth and i need everybody else to join in and experience the same sort of things. i definitely agree that you know, he has -- he's a little bit on the run there. the question can he hammer that out and find the right tone with voters we'll find out and only time is going to tell. >> nia-malika one of the more amazing things that comes out of the mouth of a congressman, alan wes, four score members of the democratic party in the house were ems m of the communist party. let's take a listen to this, i want your reaction to this. >>
>> yeah and i think at some point, he's sort of in that clip saying he's referring to members of the congressional progressive caucus. but, you know, this idea that allen west is on anybody's short list is absurd. this is something you've heard from sarah palin and herman cain and i just think, he's certainly on nobody's short list. i was with romney yesterday, i mean, he was talking about, you know, different candidates that might be on the short list, but i am certain that they aren't looking at alan west as anybody's vice-president he has been known to say pretty off color things and i think this is the latest example of it. >> well ford let me ask you, do you want a republican member of congress going on saying 80 members of the democratic party
are members of the communist party? where is he getting this stuff? whose message is he carrying? this seems to come so far out of left field, it makes no sense. >> i think we're overplaying the fiery rhetoric here colonel west is a great american and i'm sure he would like to tone that down a little bit, but i think he's sort of personifying what many conservatives in congress think and i think that the progressive left has gone too far and take us on the brink of socialism. so i understand where he's coming from i i think he could have chosen his words more wisely. >> we've all chosen words improperly or imperfectly at one point. penny, let me ask you, can you rewrite history as much as fox news want to. they have a poll claiming it's ahead of president obama deviates from every poll i've seen and roermick santorum erased from his website everything he said about mitt romney and do you think we're going to forget.
>> god bless social media and yub and reminding him over and over and over again, and it's going to be interesting what clips we play because it's been flip-flop flip-flop flip-flop back and he's been all over the map, as far as the fox polls, it's april and they've got to do everything they can to get that enthusiasm back up because they know that mitt romney is behind and trying to do everything they can to ensure his election not surprised. it's fox. >> well i read a footnote to the poll methodology, they polled the ten reporters out in the field and maybe that explains it who knows. washington post nia-malika henderson, penny lee and ford o'connell, thank you for your time tonight. [ mocking tone ] i'm ms. brown. i'm soooo chocolatey. i'm giving away money to make people like me-eee -- is what he said. and i was like "you watch your mouth. she's my friend." friend is a strong word. [ male announcer ] chocolate just got more irresistible. find the all brown bag and you could win!
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everyone honest out there, it's our daily look through the view finder. >> do you ever lord over the president, the fact that you're more popular than he is? >> of course i'm rooting for, the rangers. >> she should have come to my house when those five boys were causing so much trouble. >> they are rude they are crude, they are thoughtless, they are selfish, they are mean (laughter) >> this is not just a dream, it's a wet dream and oh gosh poe portions and more curves to it than jessica rabbit on steroids. >> you pinch. >> and if you had told me years ago that i would be a swiper i wouldn't have believed it. [laughter]
>> now that they've trained their barrels on president obama, i'm afraid his -- i hope his teleprompters are bullet-proof. >> if a polar bear dies i don't feel bad. >> did you know that 53% of americans believe the taxes on the top 1% are already too high. >> i'm not sure that's accurate. >> it is not. [laughter] >> i'm endorsing my husband, barack obama. i think he will be a phenomenal president. he has done a phenomenal job. he's my man. >> oh. >> shocking that endorsement came right there. current covers: brought to you by the new scion iq. the ted conference brings transform the world through big ideas and innovation. to learn more go to current.com/scioniq.
>> i believe it was an accident. i believe that it just got out of control and he couldn't turn the clock back. >> later in the day, sabrina fulton tried to walk that back releasing this state. when i referenced the word accident today with regard to trayvon's death in no way did i mean the shooting was an accident. we believe that george zimmerman stalked my son and murdered him in cold blood. the accident i was referring to was the fact that george zimmerman and my son ever crossed paths. it was an accidental encounter. meanwhile, george zimmerman made his first court appearance this afternoon and the ka is--
case was adjourned for formal adjournment to may 29th. joining us to former new jersey attorney general and former federal prosecutor peter c. harvey, thank you for coming in. first, let's deal with this comment from the mom. it have any impact on the trial and what will happen going forward? >> well, the problem for the prosecution, if they wanted her to use it she's not as effective of a witness and sympathetic as you wanted. the sympathy will be with her, but these two statements do not really work well together and the defense lawyer would of course pounce on them rather quickly. >> the defense lawyer would cross examine her and say, look the mom herself said it was an accident, how can you now convict this guy of murder. >> that's correct. >> you would not call her as a witness under any circumstances. >> that's correct, you really don't need her as a witness. you only would have put her on before because she brings such a heavy sympathy when they takes the stand and now contradictory
statements and by the way, the second statement, i guarantee if she talked long enough she would not use the language the same way. >> you think it's a lawyer statement. >> i think they helped. >> and let's go to what would be the fulcrum of this case there will be arraignment and may 29 and then there's going to be a hearing about the stand your ground defense. what is going to be at issue in that hearing and what will the burden be on zimmerman to establish? >> what's going to be at issue very clearly is whether or not george zimmerman can take the benefit of the stand your ground law. if he can, it immunizes him from prosecution and civil suit. what that means is he can't be tried at all. >> what will he have to establish at that hearing and how can he do it? >> i think he'll have to establish a couple of things. first, he'll have to establish that his use of deadly force was in response to the use of force that would have caused him
serious injury and even death and that's why he responded with equal force and which is what the stand your ground law pro veedz. >> would he have to establish that he did not initiate the encounter? >> i think he's going to have to. problems he has the 911 tapes, one of the tapes makes it clear, should i pursue the operator says we don't need you to do that, sir. and he does that anyway so i'm not sure he can establish that. he'll try. he has another alternative. the other alternative is to say i approached him and the kid got aggressive with me and as a result we got into a scuffle, i pulled out the gun, he reached for the gun and the gun discharged. >> the interesting thing this hearing which could happen anytime over the summer would almost require that zimmerman to testify. the only voice who could make this argument. >> he's the only known witness. we don't know that any r resident of that environment looked out of the window and actually saw what was going on so, right, he is a witness.
the question is does he have to waive his fifth amendment right against incrimination, in order to present his side of the case. normally you would have other witnesses who could explain what happened. >> we could look forward as tv viewers, because tv cameras are allowed in the courts a cross examination of prosecution to tear down his defense and that will be the fundamental moment that determined everything that followed. no question unless his lawyer can find a way to put his defense in without zimmerman take the stand. i don't know how he does that. he's the only live witness who was there at the encounter. >> right, you and i are pretty creative lawyers and neither of us could imagine how they would do that. let's jump forward, the case goes to trial and he loses the immunity fight. how does the prosecution prove the second degree murder the depraved mind murder. >> i think the prosecution has
to show that zimmerman engaged trayvon martin. that zimmerman was armed and trayvon martin was not and zimmerman shot him at a point where he had complete control of the situation. and that's why the yelling picked up on the 911 tape is very important. if the prosecution can establish that's trayvon martin's voice and they can somehow show given the trajectory of the shot and the bullet that entered his body that trayvon martin was on the ground and zimmerman was standing over him, that may be depraved indifference to human life. >> clearly the state of mind what he was thinking and psyche was. does that then permit the prosecution to put in the evidence of zimmerman's prior encounters when he called 911. he was a wannabe, wanted to be law enforcement, does that come in? >> i don't think in the first snaens it does. to the extent that zimmerman tries to paint himself as a law
abiding citizen, and he will to the point he's trying to point himself a conscientious citizen, i don't think he'll be able to effectively argue in a way that doesn't allow it to come in. >> how about the evidence if there is any, of the victim's past encounters with law enforcement. is that relevant in any way shape and form. >> and by the ways' a juvenile, i'm not sure-- >> they're sealed. >> they should be sealed and i don't know if that any of that come in. >> and by the way, zimmerman didn't know anything about trayvon martin's background. >> and that's in my mind it would seem be irrelevant. and what's at issue here zimmerman's thinking and own risk and he clearly had no what trayvon martin's record was if any and therefore should not be relevant. >> never met him in his life. >> thank you for giving us the course in criminal procedure and evidence all in one. we'll continue talking to you about this case. thank you so much. >> thank you, eliot.
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jennifer what have you got tonight? >> we've got nancy pelosi speak are of the house, and current minority leader and i'm going to ask her what keeps her up at night and plans to take over the house and become speaker again. and a whole range of issues money and politics health care messaging to what would be her legislative priorities in a second obama term? we are so happy to have the most powerful elected official in washington inside the war room. so you're not going to want to miss it at the top of the hour. >> spectacular, i'm a huge fan of nancy pelosi's she's been called the most effective most powerful, best speaker in modern times, and so-- >> totally agree, totally agree.
she's a woman who knows how to count. >> all women know how to count. >> i'm talking counting the nose. >> noses in the newest voice in cable news is on the new news network. >>it is an independent progressive voice and i love that. >>jennifer granholm joins current tv. a former two term governor. >>people like somebody who's got a spine. >>determined to find solutions... >>we need government to ensure that people have freedom. >>driven to find the truth... >>what's really going on? >>fearless, independent and above all, politically direct. i don't just talk about politics, i've lived politics. >>beltway politics from inside the loop. >>bringing you exactly what's happening in politics today by people who know what they're talking about. >>d.c. columnist and four time emmy winner bill press joins current's morning news block. >>i know what i'm talking about
and i love it and i try to bring that to the show. >> still to come the first hacking cases to be filed against the murdoch empire here in the ideas. first, here is my view. >> and the average american taxpayer feeding big government government. >> oh! oh, oh! ahhh! whew. ahhh! ahhh! >>. >> give herman cain credit.
last october's republican candidate of the moment evoked hitchcock's "the birds" a terrifying movie if you've ever seen it to argue in that video that the government is back. to use his words, it's going to hack us to death. herman is right, it's the debate of the moment. for republicans government is the millstone around the neck of the economy. everything is does is bad, weighing us down drowning us. the president has a more nuanced view. he understands that we need government in critical ways to regulate the securities market and health insurance is affordable so everybody can goat coverage. the health care debate the emotional fulcrum of what's going on in our politics right now. i want you to think about one story, not a random story, a story of mary brown. she's important because she's the one who brought the case the litigation that has been making it all the way to the supreme court.
the supreme court's going to decide it sometime in june. she said when she filed this case through her attorneys, they said she doesn't have insurance, she doesn't want to pay for it. and doesn't want the government to tell her she has to have it. sounds pretty reasonable doesn't it? being forced to buy it is a violation of her freedom they said. so let's see what happened as this story played owed. she ran a small business went bankrupt. it's a sad story, we wish her only the best. but when she went bankrupt she left behind debts, $4500 in health care bills and who paid it, we did, the taxpayer. she didn't have any other way to pay the hospital and taxpayers had to step in. i've been a governor there's something called an uncompensated care fund in virtually every state where taxpayers go to pay for the care of people like mary brown who don't have insurance. i sympathize with her, her story
is a sad one. but her freedom amounted for us to pay her medical bills, it wasn't freedom to make her own choices, it was the freedom for us to cover for her. >> she didn't want to buy insurance or pay in so we did it for it. the individual mandate that has conservatives upset is a conservative idea. prevents free loaders like mary brown from there and playing off the rest of us. and that's why thinkers like mitt romney and supported about of they ran for president. and the heritage foundation came up with the idea. so, my advice to mitt and newt stop pandering, admit what you understood way back the individual mandate makes sense. sometimes facts and l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l l
company and in terms of claims there and that's something, i think, that claims there. and perhaps the investors and shareholders in news corporation. >> the identity of the victims have not been revealed and the new york times reporting one is a well-known sports person another is a sports person not in the public eye, and the other an american citizen. he'll partner with attorney normal siegel on the cases. joining me now to discuss murdoch-gate ed pilkington. seems there's another chapter to this, jumping across oceans continents media, technology. what has been the response been from newscorp? >> nothing, they're not saying anything at this stage and you can imagine it's quite wise for them to say little at this point. we don't know what martin lewis is going to be doing here in america because he's keeping everything very close to his chest at this moment. he arrives in uc berkley on
saturday and on monday he'll be here in new york and that's when things will really start happening. i've been speaking to him as have many journalists, trying to find out who he's dealing with and the strength of his case, but by monday we hope to get the details. >> is it fair to say the arc of this investigation as it has proceeded. he, mark lewis, has been a credible voice, the allegations he's raised have ultimate i will been born out by investigations and evidence determined primarily until now by scotland yard. >> yes martin lewis has been in the saga, singlehandedly, a lawyer working on his own, he had to leave his home in manchester, they didn't want to handle a case as hot as this completely dogged and a good track record. when you see him coming to america, this is serious. >> and hacking with respect to
the three people occurred in the united states. >> seems to be one american citizen in conversation with someone abroad presumably in the u.k. and the phone conversation was hacked into at the time they were talking and the other two were british or rather european celebrities who were in america at the time the phones were hacked. >> just so it's clear. if somebody has a phone and telecom and travels to the united states, phone service continues to work over here if they're in new york city and newscorp hacks into them when they're here they're violating u.s. law? >> yeah i think they're likely to violating privacy laws in this country and lots of legal finalities they'll work out and that's what he'll be doing with norman siegel, but it will be serious if it does go to court. >> i can tell you as a prs prosecutor for many years, if you're hacking into phones in the united states, you're looking at jail for many many years. i'm surprised given the new
twist, newscorp has not responded to give calm in the securities markets. this could be a blow to their company. >> this could be a major step forward because up to now the situation has been americans looking at britain and thinking those weird british doing weird things how odd that is. if this comes actually into a new york court, three possible cases in the new york circuit, this is a completely different kettle of fish. it's american laws broken. >> until now, the u.s. federal investigation has been primarily at least as we understand it, the foreign club practices act. if newscorp paid bribes in britain it could be a u.s. violation because it's here. it's different if they hacked in the united states and hold order of magnitude different in erms it of newscorp vulnerability. >> a different level of legal liability and also a popular level of liability in terms of the american people will get their own laws were broken if this is the case we have to say we don't know yet. >> when you think about the way this has progressed from first
one newspaper in britain where newscorp said it's only one rogue reporter and 4,000 people. think about it it's almost inevitable among the 4,000 people they would have been travelling somewhere overseas at the time they were hacked into and therefore, you'll have a number of countries where this hacking owe curt. >> yes, we've never known is whether news of the world employees, journalists were ruthless enough to actually travel over to america and follow celebrity as they travel the country and hack their phones at that point. it may well have happened, but we have not seen that evidence let. >> the thing i tell you as an hour, it may not matter if news of the world employee went from england to the united states. if they tapped in in england and also part in the united states, one party her violating federal law, five years in jail. whole thing could lose their licenses could have a very serious problem. this continues and it will be loads of fun to see