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tv   The Young Turks With Cenk Uygur  Current  March 19, 2013 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT

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(vo) the answer in a moment. brought to you by expedia. expedia helps 30 million travellers a month find what they are looking for one traveller at a time. cenk: welcome to "the young turks," everybody. now, we have an amazing story. you remember this one. >> canceled early, three days at sea, missed two stops and only gave us $100. >> last cruise i'm making for sure. >> i don't want to get stranded out in the middle of the ocean. cenk: wait until you find out who paid for all that care and how much carnival pays in taxes. i love that story. >> then, everybody remember this moment? >> at this hour, american coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm iraq, free
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its people and defend the world from great danger. cenk: we all know how that movie turned out. i'll give you the exact cost and was it about oil? damning quotes from inside the addression. >> turns out we're not going to have any gun control. i'm lived about that. also this had. >> he was a popular junior, three sport athlete and aspiring rapper, shot to death inside a neighbor's home, taken for an intruder. cenk: we're going to debate that, should you shoot first and ask questions later if someone is in your house. go time. ♪ theme ♪ >> welcome to "the young turks."
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do you remember this dramatic moment in president obama's state of the union speech? >> deserves a vote, the families of newtown deserve a vote. the families of aurora deserve a vote. the families of oak creek and tucson and black berg and countless other communities ripped open by gun violence, they deserve a simple vote. cenk: that was the moment when some liberals and progressives made the mistake of getting excited. i was the bad guy. i pointed out that i don't believe it. first of all even if they got a vote it doesn't mean they won. second of all it turns out they're not going to get a vote. senator harry reid dismissing the idea of the assault weapons ban or ban of high capacity magazines would get a vote. quote: it's been clear that
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republicans a vote to the floor. my job is to bring a vote to the store. i can get 60 votes to proceed to that. we cannot have votes on everything unless i get something on the floor. it's a legislative impossible right now for amendment less than 40 votes that's not 60, referring to my amendment. so, i don't have 60, what can i do? oh, by the way if you don't have 60, you know what that means? a lot of democrats bailed on it. no, reed doesn't want the vote, because he doesn't want to embarrass his democratic senators who are just as much sellouts to the n.r.a. as republicans are. the democrats don't want the vote! remember all this excitement at the time when the president was having meetings with people who were for gun control and made the mistake of thinking democrats might actually do something? >> our meeting yet with the vice president was awesome.
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i mean, it was highly motivational to come out of there with a commitment to a comprehensive look at gun violence and policy in america. >> we can't do it alone, it's very personal to mayors. i walk away pleased optimistic. >> what this is is the beginning of a movement. >> now as a member of congress, i'm determined that we're going to take appropriate action. >> you know, this is a problem but we can solve it. >> you know, everyone of my colleagues and all the victims and survivors are with me yesterday, left that meeting elated. >> these are difficult problems, but in the united states of america, we solve difficult problems. we sent men to the moon. >> it was awesome. i had to pinch myself when attorney general eric holder sat down next to me and vice president joe biden right next to him. cenk: those are all people i like and agree with, they are all for gun control. all i was saying and unfortunately i was right about is that the democrats have no
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interest in actually getting anything done. they have an interest in bringing you to the white house shaking your hand and laughing at you behind the back saying these guys think we're going to get something done. feinstein, who shepherded this bill said: i'm not putting this on feinstein. she was one of the few democrats who did try hard on this. apparently she thinks, harry reid thinks that the most votes they can get is 40 in the senate meaning that they have lost about 15 democratic senators. now you're going to say well, what can you do, the country set it right right? the country is so conservative. wrong again bang on sale of assault weapons 56% say ban them 56%. that apparently we don't live in a democracy. how about high capacity
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magazines, 59%, 60% among republicans. apparently we eliminate democracy. let me bring in a couple of reporters, ginger gibson and david as is suroda. david, let me start with you. democrats, do they mean to lose on purpose or are they the worst politicians in american history? >> no, i think they're not the worst politicians in american history. i think they're smart politicians, wiley politicians. the fix is in. if they wanted to ban assault weapons, if they wanted to go back to the ban that existed under bill clinton until 2004, they would have colt it in the underlying legislation and forced a vote on that. instead, they stripped it out so there's going to be essentially a a ceremony yell vote on the assault weapons ban if any at
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all, but they're not using the power that they have in the senate to actually get this done. you were right to note that's not by accident, not because they're bad politicians it's because they want the outcome that they're guaranteeing. cenk: if the departments can't win on this, is there anything they can win on? if they can't win on anything, why would anybody vote for them? >> the democrats only have so much political capital. when the gun proposals came out a lot of us said it would be a really tough climb to get these out of the democratically controlled senate and it's going to take capital political capital, president obama pushing hard to negotiate on this bill. when they didn't use that political capital it's not going to get done. you already said it's going to be a ceremony yell vote most likely on the assault weapons ban. forty isn't enough to get an
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amendment attached. it's not going to happen. does it mean they can't get anything else done? i don't know about that. there's other places political capital can be spent. cenk: so that's a great question. i've heard for the last 10 years democrats have the dryest powder in american history. they never use it, so this great reporting on your part that they didn't use their political capital speaks volumes. when in the world are they going to use it? >> i want to make a point about hoarding capital. it was karl rove who said essentially that you can't hoard political capital you spend it or lose it. when you look at the assault weapons ban which in the polls has strong majority support the point here is that you can actually gain political capital by seriously forcing votes vote after vote after vote. that gets you political capital
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by spending it, you spend money to make money. i argue by the departments not spending that, they're going to lose what moral high ground they have. cenk: ginger, if you agree with the democratic theory which is that you should neve, ever, ever spend your political capital until you have this magic moment, in this second term of president obama, what's the magic moment what are they collecting all this political capital for, to do a grand bargain to cut social security and medicare? >> we saw president obama say last week, trying to build up good will for a grand bargain. we've seen the immigration bill. cenk: great. ginger, so first of all grand bargain is a horrible for progress you haves horrible. it cuts social security, medicare and dramatically cuts spending. that's what the president is saving up his capital for. that's awesome. the second thing you mentioned there was immigration reform,
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but ginger wouldn't it help republicans if the democrats passed immigration reform with the republicans saying it's ok latinos, they're on your side, just politically speaking. >> it could be an issue where they say do we lose, you know, you lose a wedge issue it's gone. one of the important things to remember here, too is that control of the senate, there are a number of democratic senators from conservative states, north carolina louisiana alaska. arkansas, up for election in 2014 and this is an effort to protect them, to keep them from having to vote on something that's not popular in their home state. cenk: that's absolutely right. david, how many times have you heard we need to protect conservative democrats by never ever doing anything progressive in the senate, because they need to be protected? >> it's been the standard formula for democratic. democratic strategists might argue that kept us in the
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senate. at the end of the day, people, we should all be asking what were those election victories for if you're not even willing to put in the underlying bill, a proposal on assault weapons ban that is supported by the majority of the country. if you're not willing to use your political capital why are you being elected to office. cenk: i want to blow your mind a little more. harry reid said today that they might not have 60 votes for federal gun registry. do you know how many -- i'm sorry, just a background check. that would be 92% 92% of americans support it, but they might not have enough support in the senate. we don't have a democracy, we don't have a democracy. our votes don't matter. in the end the only thing that matters is the paychecks they get from special interests. great reporting. thank you for joining us. as you can tell, i'm worked up about this. now, when we come back, more
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things i'm worked up about. where am i moving to next? i'll tell you iraq, you want to talk about worked up, republicans, we don't have any money, we don't have any money. we might have had if you hasn't blown $2 trillion in iraq, you losers. "young turks." >> at least a dozen blacks highly coordinated. coming on to me all the time now. (vo) she gets the comedians laughing and the thinkers thinking. >>ok, so there's wiggle room in the ten commandments, that's what you're saying. you would rather deal with ahmadinejad than me. >>absolutely. >> and so would mitt romney. (vo) she's joy behar. >>and the best part is that current will let me say anything. what the hell were they thinking?
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>> at least a dozen blacks highly scored nateed. iraqis were among the dead over two hours more blacks in north and central baghdad. it's 10 years to the day that the u.s.-led coalition began it's invasion of iraq. >> at this hour, american coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm iraq and
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free its people and to defend the world from great danger. cenk: no, you didn't see that that wasn't a time warp. that peace about all the violence in iraq was from today 10 years after we invaded iraq, still tremendous violence, 65 killed today. i'm glad we solved that problem and liberated iraq for democracy, it's working out so well. in fact, listen to all the numbers we've had number of citizen deaths, u.s. deaths, service members is 4,488 throughout the war. contractors, 3,400. wounded veterans, 32,221. how about iraqi civilians 134,000. the cost of the world $2.2 trillion, but because of interest and expenses, it could go up to $6 trillion. that war brought to you by the
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same people who said oh, god, we have such big deficits, what can we do, pay your social security and medicare you paid into your whole life. we're going to have to rob you on that because bush spent all your money on the iraq war. sorry, sorry we don't have enough money. by the way we'd love to start a war with iron. that could cost a couple trillion dollars. later, we'll rob you even more and say sorry we just don't have any money. by the way yes, it was started by bush and the republicans and yes, a lot of democrats voted for it, because as usual, it doesn't matter who wins the election, you get the right wing policy, no matter what. all right let me bring in experts. catherine lutz is part of the good folks who did that project that we just gave you the stats from, co director of the cost of war project and michael from rolling stone and our own
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notebook here on current. catherine, let me start with you. so a lot of people will look at those clips and say really, $2.2 trillion. where did you get those numbers from? >> well, we had a team of 29 people working on the in connection and our economists basically added up things that don't normally get noticed including things like of course the war appropriations, but increases to the pentagon budget over the last 10 years. some pores of that was devoted to the war in iraq. the v.a., where medical and disability payments are huge and the debt on the war already being paid. that plus looking forward to the obligated funds that go to veterans, who have been wounded. you get $4.2 trillion. >> how about the number of iraqis killed.
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where do we get that from? >> iraq body count has been using media accounts and trying to get one by one all of the different casualties but we know that number is very conservative. that's just who's been counted so far and we estimate that that will probably be twice that number who have died in the war of direct violence and even the larger number will have died of indirect causes. there are people who wouldn't have died except that the war destroyed infrastructure, dislocated them from their homes, destroyed the health care system so there were fewer immunizations and a high in infant mortality rate, which has led to more death than just those. cenk: we did get the weapons of mass destruction, so the country's safer now. >> i feel much safer after this 10 years. another number to add to some of
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the statistics you were mentioning, last week, there were 78 separate attacks in iraq. that's an average keeping with the average of seven or eight attacks per day. that's been fairly steady since 2008. in the american consciousness the iraq war i think it actually ended probably for americans around 2009, when the high level of american casualties started going down. really, we still -- we've left but the war has continued for the iraqis as you showed in that report, as well. cenk: now i want to ask both of you about the cost for this war. obviously there were no weapons of mass destruction and there's good reporting today from the guardian saying by the way that m.i.6 were perfectly aware they had gotten intelligence from i-key intelligence and foreign minister of iraq directly noting that they had no weapons of mass destruction and they went anyway.
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possibly that would get you labeled a red kell if you mention i had it was oil. now the speech writer who wrote the actual line said this: cenk: the know yo cons favorite to iraqi they wanted him to become president. doesn't it seem like an admission that well before the war, chain knee spent hours planning how to divvy up iraq's oil? >> i certainly think that's true. whenever we discuss energy security or regional interest, we're talking about oil. he is one of the more fascinating characters in this drama. the last time i saw mr. chalibi
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he was in iraq, actually running for prime minister of iraq. the way he ran was going to a radical shiite mosque. he began talking about how he wants to kill all the baathista throughout this is at the same time they are supposed to be forming a unit government. this is a notorious kind of criminal type, but also very charming. he knows a lot about the orchestra and fine art. he can talk to guys like richard pearl, wolf wits. he gets put off as a villain but i think it also has to be pointed out that the people, the know yo cons, guys like cheney wanted to be sold the story he was telling. cenk: catherine general john adams who is the head of central
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command uncharge of iraq said of course it's about oil. it's very much about oil and we can't really deny that. alan greenspan federal head of the federal reserve said: cenk: as you look at the $2.2 trillion in cost, iraqi civilians dead, americans dead, how can anyone make the claim that it was worth the cost for getting the royal when we didn't even get it, by the way. >> i've been just shocked to see how many media outlets are asking the question was it worth it over the last couple of days. well, who was it worth what for? it wasn't worth it for the people of iraq, but it was worth it for it turns out not -- the oil companies didn't do that well, compared to the military contractors and the reconstruction contractors approximate, some of whom again
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are very well connected to the bush-cheney administration, halliburton. companies made money hand over fist over the last 10 years, supplying logistics for the military doing reconstruction work, much of it really quite fraudulently, and, you know, over budget and years over the time line that was projected. some people made a killing as the saying goes, and that's where, again the next war will have its profiteers as well. we need to do a full assessment of how many dollars were sucked into those companies who had very direct connections with the bush administration. cenk: catherine, that's a great point and good one to leave on, because you think they're gone? they're not gone. those are the same guys pushing for the war in iron, the same guys who are going to make "a
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killing" off that war as we die citizens in iron die just as what happened in iraq. thank you so much for shedding light on this. we appreciate it. >> thank you. cenk: when we come back, you saw cnn covering the carnival cruise ship 24 hours a day, toilets backed up, et cetera. what's the big deal? when you look beyond that, there is a great story there about how little taxes they pay and how much they suck off our government, even though they run to panama to put their headquarters there. we'll tell you about that when we come back. >> it's just been a horrible experience for us. >> i think about a good three day cruise we had and then a four bad day camping trip. >> the taxpayer ends up picking up most of the responsibility. >> it's go time.
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cenk: four different carnival cruise ships have broken down. you know that, you've seen it all over your t.v. triumph had a problem with their propulsion system. everybody walked it get towed in. it costs money. who pace for it? it turns out you do. >> taking poo and pee in red bags on a trash can. that's what we had to do. it's degrading. >> the sewer backed up and there would be six inches of it all over the ship, in the dining area where we had to eat people would slip and fall unit. cenk: 17 passengers have decided to sue carnival. how are we getting our money back. we have senators upset about it.
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>> they dock in our ports they advertise all over america. the majority of their passengers are americans but they fly foreign flags. one of the reasons they fly foreign flags is because there's virtually no regulation. cenk: foreign flags? what are we helping these guys for? you break down, call panama, maybe they'll help you. the reality is they break down all the time. over the last five years, 90 casualty reports or investigations. carnival's got almost as much of those investigations as the rest of the industry combined times two. that's amazing. all right? well carnival splendor broke down in 2010 cost u.s. taxpayers $3.4 million triumph $779,000. that's ok, because carnival
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probably pays a lot of taxes in return for that. as you can see, i don't think so. over the last five years they paid only 1.1% in corporate taxes. europe not seeing that wrong 1.1%. it's not like they didn't have profits. they're total profits were $11.3 billion. congressman jay rockefeller fight be investigating. he says: cenk: well, that's certainly true. let's bring in an expert, professor ross cline from memorial university in st. john's new found land and international authority on the cruise ship industry, including author of four books including cruise ship lose, great to have
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you. >> great to meet you cenk. cenk: all right. now, thank you. let's talk about carnival. where are they headquartered and why? >> well, they're headquarters are in miami florida and they trade on the new york stock exchange, but they're a panamaen corporation. they in corps righted in the early 1970's in panama. the reason is largely related to avoidance of taxes. cenk: fantastic. so they avoid taxes. is this a way of avoiding regulation too? >> well, most definitely. they are able to avoid environmental regulations labor codes, their workers work under the labor requirements of the country of panama. they influence panama to pass whatever legislation is in their interest. people may be interested that
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the closest competitor to carnival is royal caribbean they're registered in liberia. they moved ships out during the civil war figuring the optics just didn't look right. cenk: it's not like your ships break down all the time, oh, right, they do. what difference does it make the american taxpayers pay for it. in the case of carnival, who has the more corrupt government, panama that lets them get away with no regulation or attaches or us when we let them get away with it plus pay for rescuing them over and over. >> i think the u.s. government is pretty -- they're afraid to stand up to the industry. the industry hasn't passed. at the time, congress has begun to consider legislation that would bring them in, they said well, if you bring in
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regulations, we're going to move our ships someplace else. for whatever reason, members of congress members of the senate actually believe that. cenk: so what! >> they have no place else to go. cenk: so what, you don't pay travels. the guys working on the ships are oftentimes not at all american. what would we lose? oh, we would lose your ability to get american customers which make up what percentage of their customers are american? >> well, carnival has 53% of the north american market. americans on their ships probably constitute about 80-85%. cenk: wow boy, we would lose so much if you couldn't come to the sufficient. so then, professor that's an obvious, obvious ridiculous crock, right? anybody with two brain cells to rub together could see that. nonsense. what is it that the senators and congressmen actually get from the industry?
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>> well, the industry is very adept at its lobbying, spending $6 million a year on lobbying. they spend also about $6 million, $10 million a year on cam pawn contributions and they're very strategic in terms of the contributions they give, so they support the senators and the congress people mainly who are on the commit committee the that monitor what the cruise industry does. if you're on the coast guard committee, which oversees the industry, you're more likely to get money than if you're on any other committee. the money tends to be higher, depending on what your status is on that particular committee. cenk: ding, ding, ding, we have a winner, that is exactly it. we don't have a democracy anymore. these guys rob us blind make us pay their bills they don't pay any taxes and all they've got to do is buy a bunch of corrupt politicians in the senate and congress. i just showed you in the first segment the audience, 92% of the
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american people say do a background check and congressman and senators say you don't pay us the n.r.a. pays us. we lost our democracy. you see it in every story. professor thank you. we really appreciate your expertise. >> all right. appreciate you having me. cenk: all right. we don't have a democracy. news flash, we don't have one. the rest of the media the rest of t.v., oh, yeah, everything's great, keep shopping keep shopping. these honorable gentlemen all take legalized bribes. we pay the bills that they won't pay, when we come back, cpac. oh they're talking about an outreach to blacks, latinos and other minorities. laugh along with me. i'm going to have a couple of conservatives on and ask them
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cenk: everybody is talking about this report the republicans have done calling it the autopsy report where they analyze what happened in the 2012 elections. we've covered that before, too. it's called the growth and opportunity project. but a couple of quotes i really enjoyed and wanted to bring to your attention. they say at one point.
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i would imagine so if your in a democracy and you have a perception that you don't care about people, that would hurt. i love this part, they say: cenk: in other words, let's reach out to minorities and blacks and latinos, et cetera to see what their perceived issues are. of course they don't have real issues. you know how they complain and whine, let's pretend to care about it. as you saw from cpac, from many different speeches, including a guy defending slavery it didn't seem like a lot of republicans were in the reaching out mood. >> i think you write a letter and say i forgive you for all the things you did for me.
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>> i would like to leave you, if i could in lip synching the nothing anthem. all right. that's a superbowl joke. i guess i probably need to get serious for a moment or two. or was it an inauguration joke? i get them confused. >> there are those in the republican party who cannot subscribe to the principles, let them go the way. >> american brothers are lost in the woods no compass no map and their g.p.s. satellites are inoperable. when more americans prefer freebies to freedom these united states will become a fertile ground for tyranny. when does ask not what your country can do for you become what can your country give you?
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>> we have a senior editor, a political activist, he ran for congress in illinois as a republican and lost recently. all right, lenny let me start with you. when you try to reach out to minority groups as represents and talk about their perceived issues that doesn't seem to come off right, does it? >> no, it doesn't come off right at all. unfortunately, it's a bigger indication of what the problem is within the conservative movement and the gop, more than just a race issue. we have a diversity issue and not just when it comes to racial background or when it comes to sexual orientation. it boils down down to diversity of thought. you must bring a richness of debate and formulations of
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solutions. if not you're not going to reach a diverse nation. we as republicans collectively have forgotten that we're trying to lead a diverse nation of americans, not just red state americans hoping that everybody thinks like us. we have to change that mindset bring conservatism to different people and bring different solutions to the diversity of america, not just what we're used to or comfortable with. cenk: interesting stats on elections from 1968 to today from 1968 to 1988, republicans had a great run, part of this in southern strategy and won five out of six of the presidential elections. from 1992 to 2012, they lost four out of six elections and lost electoral votes significantly. as you look at that and see this party that just simply by their own admission have tremendous
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difficulty reaching out to minors gays, women to the young, you look at those numbers, do they have any hope? >> i think the reason that they've been lose ago lot is they've sort of lost their thumb on the pulse of the culture. in the 1980's, there was sort of that reagan culture since then, they've lost their way and haven't reached out to try to appeal to young people at all. one thing in this autopsy, they acknowledged that they're terrible at reaching out to gays. the funny thank you that you said, they're going to listen to them and understand what they want and they're going to be more tolerant of other people within the party wanting maybe supporting things like marriage. when it comes to the election, you know they're going to sparta did you goal marriage and whine about it destroying america or anybody's straight marriage. they're going to continue to speak the same things. it's not going to be effective
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in the long run. they'll pretend they have to swim against the tide and same-sex marriage is not going to happen. it's bogus. cenk: interesting to me. they are saying are we not merciful, we will actually hear you out and then disagree with you. when you look at the memo, they're going to engage them and show our sincerity this is already hilarious number two embrace and champion immigration reformal. that's actually some real action. number three the party must be inclusive and welcoming. isn't that the problem the republican party does not have welcoming positions whether it's pathway to citizenship which they're getting better on because of politics, or how in the world do they reach out to blacks no they haven't changed any policies. the policy is that african-american population of america does not agree with their policy.
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>> we can't take the conservatism that worse in red state america and think it's going to work in urban america. we can take conservatism, but we have to take a percentage. if you want to take the exact same tax message to someone with a vacation home to the inner city, that's not going to work. if you take tax policies and explain why you want to allow for investment to the inner city to bring jobs and prosperity back to their neighborhoods, you have more of a shot to make it work. we don't have candidates or leadership that's been taking a modified version of conservatism that's still conservative but works for the constituents that we need to win elections. we're trying to take what has worked in red areas and places that were comfortable and trying to jam it down these voters' throats and every november saying how come they didn't vote
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for us, because they can't relate to us. we have to start performing relationships, not just trying to get voters. >> andrew, super quick here, isn't the problem the ideas i mean so you tried did see e. ideas and they didn't work, the american people don't agree that's the bottom line. >> i'm not sure. i think a lot of black americans, especially social will you conservative. what i want to add is there's an interesting thing a limited government position that republicans can take to try to convince black america that they care about them. it's a limited position that republicans will never advance in their 15 or 20 years hey the war on drugs completely inextras tated black americans. they are disproportionately jailed because of small marijuana crimes. this is something that would speak to that population, but of course they're not going to take that limited position. cenk: of course. interesting conversation here, and an honest conversation. i appreciate it, guys. thank you for coming on.
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>> thank you cenk, god bless. >> a young kid crawls into a house, thinking it's his house it's not he gets shot, he's dead. was it the right thing to do? we'll debate when we come back. >> everybody was sad about it. >> he was free-spirited. >> his principal coach and students say the portrait of him as an intruder doesn't fit.
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cenk: a 16-year-old high school student in virginia was going to what he thought was husband own house. he wanted to sneak in because he was a the a party. it was late. he didn't want his parents to know. it looked just like his house. turned out it was the wrong house. wrc has the report on what happened next. >> students calm early to park view high school and gathered in the gym with heavy hearts to remember a favorite classmate seen here on facebook, caleb
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gordley was a popular junior, aspiring rapper and athlete. his family believes he mistook a house for his own and was shot. >> everyone is just sad about it. >> he was free-spirited. >> park view's principal his coach and students say the portrait of him as an intruder doesn't fit with the teenager they know. cenk: well, the guy who's house was getting broken into to be fair to him apparently gave a warning shot and caleb we don't know if he was intoxicated disoriented, thinking it was his house. according to the guy who shot him, he continued in the house and he shot him. earlier, he tweeted going to charlie's house. he was going to party and have fun and now he's dead. was it right to shoot him? i want to discuss this with our
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panel. our resident specialist liberal and jayary jackson. jayar, we have had this discussion many times and we're on different sides of this. that i said i would not shoot someone breaking into the house. you said you would talk corrective action. >> i would not shoot him. that's where we had the same opinion on this, i don't keep a gun in the house. i don't believe in it for reasons like this. if this kid happens to come to my house i actually heard noises in my house before, we talked about it. i talked to the person, said listen you're in the wrong house. you might want to leave right now. now if i had a gun and someone moves and i see them in the house, that's, you pay have the same reaction this homeowner had. if you have your 50's, a bat anything else in the house you
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may beat the person, but they're not going to die. that's the big difference. that's the mistake he made where he may end up, oh, you know, with a couple of knots on his head and maybe some ribs broken, but that's about it. he still lives. cenk: right. >> lucas a lot of people say man, you're in my house that's my castle. i don't know who you are maybe you're out to hurt my family. i shoot first ask questions later. do you think that's fair? >> i think it totally is. cenk: oh, interesting. >> if there's an intruder in your house it's. incredibly sad but i don't see the homeowner at fall. there's a cultural issue here. if we have guns in our homes our kids are more likely to get killed suicideles are more likely to be completed successfully. cenk: 11 times more likely, assault seven times more likely, accidents four times for likely.
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carmela, and its harder for you to swing a bat than jayar or me. i'm keeping it real. >> i have a very similar take to lucas. i thought you were going to be more liberal about it. i think there's no reason to think the shooter had ill in tent. this kid was in his house. obviously it's a tragedy. it's not this kid's fault either. i don't look at it that way. this isn't like a zimmerman and trayvon martin case. he came into this person's house. whether intoxicated or not is irrely vent. it's not the homeowner's job to figure out who this is. cenk: that's where i disagree. i'm not sure the guy needs to be arrested. it's not trayvon zimmerman thing, but turn on the lights and try to figure out who it is. i'm going to be the bad guy and tell the homeowner i think you did wrong. i don't think you should get arrested for it. turn on the the lights, find out if it's your son who crawled in,
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your neighbor's son a homeless person and just shooting in the dark is a bad idea. you're likely going to kill the wrong person. >> we've heard of family members being shot when people thought they were intruders. it could be a stranger, i could be one of your own. dude, i need your help fast. well, clearasil's fast. yeah, but is it this fast? faster! how about this fast? clearasil's faster! this fast?? faster!! woh! that is fast!


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