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tv   Conflict Zone - Guest Len Mc Cluskey General Secretary Unite the Union  Deutsche Welle  September 20, 2017 7:30pm-8:01pm CEST

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the energy and efficiency can be improved also further by having my p.t.o. thought can function like even higher temperatures because that's unlimited now you can only concentrate on what your power before might be that begin to melt. and. concentrated for power it feels more expensive about fourteen fuels but with a new technology the whole base of the price will be brought down. this week conflict zone is in london at the headquarters of the unite trade union the biggest and most powerful baca of britain's labor party and its leader jeremy call been to my guest is the union's general secretary len mccluskey just some he's
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read hard left activist who wants to junk capitalism to others a trade union leader who simply wants to bring about a fairer and more equal britain what's the truth. let me ask you welcome to come exam do you consider yourself to be a marxist no. i wish i was. sufficiently well read and educated to be able to say that but you like quoting marx that oh yeah i like quoting lots of people for quote it happened back in the past which is slightly different from karl marx but you're not advocating the abolition of capitalism no love nor its replacement with a classless communist society no no i'm not sorry i wish i had a magic wand to make the world a better place but there's that becoming a better place you want to farewell to world that basically made it more
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equitable just recently i think it was oxfam produced two startling facts eight billion is eight single individuals own more wealth than fifty percent of the planet that's extraordinary i ask you about your political leanings because a you quote marks a lot but you in the labor movement you've got plenty of other people you've got john mcdonnell shadow chancellor said in a video soon after the financial crash we've got to demand systemic change look i'm straight i'm honest with people i'm a marxist so you're comfortable among people like that you come to work jeremy corbyn is that our job is not to reform capitalism it's to overthrow it do you not buy into those things like a overthrowing capital i'm perfectly comfortable with jeremy and john both of them are effectively expressing a view that they'd like a better world and i certainly would like a better britain a better us not
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a word of what they're talking about they're talking about it's how you actually fabulous what you can saying the system isn't working well the problem is more about what kind of system you'd like to replace it attempting call lots of things i've never been called before so that's a first but we have the reality that the reality is that the system of capitalism is not working you've only got to look around the world so you want to replace it i would love to replace. with a fairer system what does that mean it means exactly that what kind of fairy is this you have a mind it means a more equitable system trying to answer so you're dancing the not the fallacy around your you're obviously trying to get me to say you've been happy for me to say that i was a marxist i'm not going to be i'm sorry i'm sorry to disappoint you well though so does the three question on three questions so far of centered around that particular fact i won't i'm a socialist i believe that socialism is a better form of economic and distributive political system than capitalism you
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feel you have a mandate for socialism i mean your election results you know it see you were pretty poor weren't you have a dwindling mandate and dwindling union membership well now i would argue the only direction this union is going is that now there's no well far from it i mean i think you'll find that united is perhaps the most prominent trade union in britain some most powerful britain people see it as being your moment for this lonely old pearl when you said four years ago you were elected by less than ten percent of you know its members on the turn of fifteen point two percent this year it was those twelve percent and your share was pretty much cut in half down to five point four percent yes but the reality of course is that we've changed and number of people who can vote in the initial figures you're quoting there was a significant number of retired members who had a vote at that particular time that since been changed but it could also be what
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you like it's because you're failing to inspire the members we would like the leaders of trade won't attempt to we would like we would like ballots. workplace that's where unions are unions organize themselves in the workplace and if we had workplace ballots for general secretaries for example we get the same type of turn out that we get for our shop stewards or representative so you also you draw your own group. drawn from one hundred forty four thousand votes to keep but you know you're missing the you're missing a particular important factor of you don't mind me saying so i go on import i won't know what is important is winning i've been elected three times i'm very proud and very humbled by that but i've been elected three times as the leader of britain and ireland largest union and most powerful in one thousand nine hundred seventy nine there were thirteen million people who were members of the trade union last year the figure plummeted to just over six million in twenty fifteen when you firmly ensconced as boss of unite the union membership recorded its largest annual fall
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since ninety ninety five they weren't exactly cheering you in their lives were they when with well again your figures and fortunately your research has suffered on their job as well as they should of the reality of course figures a rock the figures the figures all wrong because unfortunately when unite and was forms amakosa team g. came together the figures that were reflected that the time where wrong what we did when i became general secretary is we flushed out the membership there was a lot of nonmembers records and so that's precisely why now if you look at your figures of the researches have done their job you'll find that our membership started to increase the following year so not precisely what we're seeking to do but you also need to understand the membership of trade unions was down from twenty four point seven percent twenty fifteen to twenty three point five percent
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last year that trying to put what are you trying to say that unions are in decline you know well and because while you're rocking the reality of course is over time when people need you are you are wrong because of course the reality is we're dealing with an economy that has now got huge numbers of self-employed as zero hour agency laborers the so-called giga kaname the. type of individuals who frankly need to union but are afraid to germany viewing they are constantly put under pressure not to why are you unable to appeal to these people it's not a question of appealing it's because a little now it's because of the laws that exist that they should be run i'm of the entrance exam there are only three x. the climate that exists within britain means that effectively they are afraid to during trade unions but if the point of your question is that unions or less effective now or not relevance than that just simply isn't true as you had three
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highly respected former union bosses who told you before the vote in the united and that it was time you moved on roger law and bill morris margaret prosser former president of the trades union congress all of them said they need a union leadership that was first and foremost there for the members and i'm delighted i'm done clearly to them you weren't there for the member and i'm delighted i didn't have their support there comes a time i said when all trades union officials must make way for their own that's a generation and we believe that time has come for them across unfortunately they didn't have sufficient influence in the union they've sold out to our members a long time ago and i was delighted not to have their personal support there were also very upset margaret process about the way you suspended your chief rival for the leadership general calling before the ballots and even being counted where you sir freddy might win well i never suspended him again you received the union did the union did well you'll go out in your general secretary no i would i wasn't the
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general secretary at the time the acting general secretary acted on behalf of the union and the executive of you know you happy that challenger was suspended even before the counter began no i was unhappy with the whole of the election i know that but are you happy with the way of the whole suspended and then dismissed why would i be happy at someone being suspended or dismissed it means that something wrong has happened i regret the fact. that something wrong happened during the campaign about the way you night handled you know that you know i have an operative word here was a man i have a will the practices i'm also aware of twenty eight years and he was sent by mail and i've been far i had i have no criticism whatsoever but you know it and i was you know that's the subject of legal proceedings but i wasn't party to either the dismissal or the suspension of of jericho but this is
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a union which is supposed to protect workers' rights and after twenty eight years general court and get sent an e-mail and said goodbye when you know when you should dismiss when you say sent an e-mail there was an investigation no charge there was an investigation yeah there was a procedure and since so it's not similar charges felony of you know yes well you know but the reality is there's a procedure yes there was there was a procedure place not just got an email telling it to yourself a disservice by trying to produce an image that says he received an e-mail he received a text that's not true the union went through its process like any employer does and i wasn't part of the process i had no imports in the process that process was dealt with in accordance with the rules of fed you began shouting about a plot by a cabal of m.p.'s on the right of the part time you have until now i knew i never shall we talked about it i know you said they turned the election into
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a proxy war and i was going to ask corbett you cues your chief rival of a shameful campaign of lies in un those and smears well that's correct that is exactly right you are the person is consistently complained about the treatment you and jeremy coburn the left have got in the media the constant talk about the left coming under heavy enemy fire the constant bias i might point rush well but it seems for all these accusations that you give as good as you get out of it you do you want me to stand there and tell you when she's on the chin what i said was very clear that. fortunately and this is happened on a number of occasions we might get on to some of it when we talk about the labor party there are people within the establishment of the right wing establishment and the labor party establishment who have constantly sought to have a proxy war against corp and my oh they were just against my general secretary our shouldn't they be against you personally also not no problem with that but the
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reality is they when it wasn't about me it wasn't about me it was a proxy war you know because it's very evident read all of the so you from yet you also claim that the security service m i five was trying to undermine jeremy corbyn you told the guardian that when the files on what is happening now are opened in twenty forty six the role of the intelligence services in smearing jeremy corbyn will come to light and you haven't got one shred of evidence here that i can have you you have a reputation for you you have you you have a reputation of being a sophisticated journalist of round when one of them but i am nowhere around i arrived around the world and if you if you believe for one second that security forces were your experience are not involved in these type of political matters so i should one shred of every of course you don't have notice i don't know it was
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a smear it was merely a security hole and well for shame of shame on me for security for smearing the security forces the security forces i have a day threat to the day i have only the history of the security forces in the british labor movement has been nothing short of disparate disgraceful and despicable as you seriously think there mccluskey that the british security services don't have a more credible threat to the british way of life usually variously venue and jeremy cause i've seen with terrorist threats i have no idea i never said they got time for i was. i never involved myself in that in this particular smearing jeremy corbyn you do really don't think there are better things to do these days i've coached and got better things to do but if you sherry actually believe that the establishment are not interested in a jeremy corporon and the movement that's taken place in the labor party then you're not the man i think you know what a lot of enemies you seem to overcall. labor m.p.'s of were loyal and after they've all been tom watson labour's deputy leader you accused him of skullduggery smears
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and secret plots then there's a right wing press the security services is there a bit of paranoia creeping into this you need to know because you know not not in the slightest you say that i've acquired many anything conspiracies that everybody it's not a conspiracy you've only got to read the media to know that of course anybody who stands up and fights for working people will be challenged by the right wing me through control the nation's thought process that's precisely what's happened cohen jones labor's leader in wales referred to labor as a paranoid political movement more concerned with rooting out traitors and his with the economy security and happiness of our country the booing the hissing the name calling the trolling the threats it has to stop he said it has to stop. this is what you've turned this labor movement into but that's our offering hissing name calling filming starts or altered nonsense the point you're making is absolutely
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normal as it answers comes comes from labour's leader and wiles and he makes the point at the time that there were people who were opposed to the challenger going to cope and i don't remember calling coming out defending corbin when he was being constantly attacked and stamped in the back i mean this is nonsense what you're talking really about or it's a nonsense like like like the accusations of anti semitism in the labor which you dismissed and said were being used by corbin's opponents within labor to undermine his leadership absolute was nonsense to our i'm gone that is exact nonsense i've been a member on like you of the labor party for forty seven years i've never been at a single meeting where there was anti semitism because had that have been not only i but others at the meeting would have reacted and thrown those individuals out that was more mood music being designed to undermine paul but so the board of deputies of british jews got it completely wrong they know nothing i very no no
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it's not a question of they know nothing there's a distinction between whether you want to be critical of the israeli government and anti semitism jews for labor didn't get it wrong many many left when jews he was a chief for i got it wrong he got it wrong and i wrote to him seeking a meeting the all party committee of m.p.'s you know that accused government and you should i know you still attend this is extremely i don't know whether you've been out of the country for too long to know what's been happening for the last two or three years in the labor party you know the type of attacks that jeremy corbyn and so i had to put up with day in day out about attacks on louis zalman or ruth's me thought you know that john about certainly desiring colleagues on labor's national exact absolutely disgraceful and any body was found to be involved in any anti sematic behavior is dealt with by the labor party procedures and condemned out
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of hand by jeremy corben. that's why a campaign against anti semitism called labour's inquiry a very big meaningless whitewash the reality is that the campaign that was launched any opportunity we might come on to issues like venezuela or any little thing that gives people the opportunity to try and undermine corben and paint the labor party as some form of. anti semitic. symmetric. organization is used by these people it's absolutely wrong and they're all jewish organizations and jewish left comrades in israel who are condemning the type of attacks and vilification of the labor party the labor and i'm going translating them planted now i'm letting her let me say i know you don't let me say this to you people like jeremy corbyn a may have been out on the streets physically fighting
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the racists and the anti semite so i won't take any lessons whatsoever from the right wing media or right wing labor m.p.'s who have never lifted a finger in their lives to oppose discrimination it's not about bricks it. the labor party has a new policy of bricks unlike the conservative government labor now wants to stay in the single market in the european customs union for a transition period no limit given on how long that would be how is that not a betrayal of the referendum result well i'm not sure about the limit how that how long that would be as far as i'm concerned my union fought in favor of remaining in europe but the truth of the matter is of course the vote has been taken and britain needs to leave the european union as far as we're concerned it's a question of defending jobs jobs where is right in this newman policy how does that then you know policy labor for the election like to work very well i thought
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cool been presented a position in the last election which spoke for the whole of the nation but the fifty two percent and he's going back on that because he said only weeks ago he said that under labor government bracks it would mean leaving the single market and i think what that will happen that's a three front bench that is still to return one single labor's policy as ireland standing seems to change because he's holding out the possibility that if there are some judges in europe this could be permanent staining the single market realities first and how it's not it's not it's not a part of the question of staying in the single market with the customs union it's getting the benefits of a tariff free a single market and the customs union now that's what david davis promised us labor's job at the moment is to hold the government to account because they're in an absolute mess of colleagues over in europe tell us their information from their government tell them that nobody knows what britain's
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looking for or wanting at the moment so what labor has to do is to try and steady the ship and there isn't going to be another u. turn and we're going to find the brics it is junked and the we're staying in the european union the labor board. we've already had one big u.-turn from the labor party i don't think there's any chance of that and i don't think we've had a u. turn at all on bracks as we've had a labor party in jeremy corbin arguing gotten down the length and breadth of the country that he wants to defend jobs people may have voted to be out of europe they didn't feel to be out of their jobs and so what is required now is a skillful way of trying to negotiate where jobs are protected whilst at the same time dealing with the real concerns about the free movement of labor which undoubtedly had a negative effect in the in the referendum campaign and labor is the only party i've had so far that put forward puts forward policies dealing with both of those
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issues you mentioned venezuela let's just take a look you've been a staunch supporter of both the late hugo chavez and the current leader nicolas maduro your website says venezuela has one of the most democratic and progressive governments in the world what what's puzzling is the degree to which you have completely ignored the massive human rights violations that have been extensively documented in the country under both leaders why is that well first of all i think what's currently happening in venezuela is a concern for all of us and what we're seeking to do is obviously try to make certain that the real news the full extent of what's happening in the full picture is on the story we're not giving the full we are if they were given we are able favoring the pro-government we are on founder and we are in favor of human rights and we've calling pong and we've called upon the venezuelan government and indeed the venezuelan solidarity committee to promote the concept but it is an interesting
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fact the idea that suddenly we're supposed to believe the right wing press in the u.k. that the united states that right. when i talk about human rights watch so mike so you're quite happy to quote when sober mind you with so will my and that's why we will continue to quote them but what we won't do you won't post on venezuela yes absolutely will yes absolutely we don't see you quoting well if i was looted we will see you quoting on the stands and a will of the un high commissioner for human rights watch or the european parliament i don't see you working any longer to is jump on the bandwagon that's being whipped up by the hysteria of the right wing totally un high commissioner for human rights does no and on the eight ball i'm going to start aborted attempts i weakened tim we condemn any huge where it's fire where did you connect them with the widespread and systematic now widespread and systematic use of excessive
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enforcing an act against governments you know it has encounters with pollution i'm condemning any form of attacks on human rights now but we might have a government by the government security we've got does not appear and we know your whole union is on a whole history of latin america being attacked where it's i didn't hear you or anybody else attacking colombia when thousands of trade unionists i don't know man like me state we're talking about are you taking out where the standard simple we defend human rights really really in venice way by saying it has got a lot of money i am a cranky and progressive judgment and then well it did too on the chavez it relate to of course it was a cold human rights watch it was a shadow as it was characterized by a dramatic concentration of power and open disregard for basic human rights guaranteed it all. speak they did all any of that they did all they did also not
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that the advance in literacy in tackling extreme poverty was to be commended that it also will not say that they said it also a resident of human rights protections and given the go. i meant free reign to intimidate censor and prosecuted venezuelans who criticize the president and you were absolutely silent on that but what i'm saying to you is what you have to look writes our coach annoys you how your adventures what you mean right after a lot of what you have to look at is venezuela before shafiq is what you have for starters you were working at a porter and what have you actually what you have to look at is the immense poverty the attacks on trade unions the the rip off of ordinary working people before shall face came along what you are trying to present now is that certainly venezuela as fallen apart and their own doubted problems problems that will be exasperated by what the americans of gone with their embargo and what people are
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attempting to whip up again another example internally in the really can't you or the high can you told one single protesting thing although people are watching what i've just said to you i condemn actions by the venezuelan government and by opposition figures on your website we won't be given lessons by people who have been against working people all across the world for ever and united states we're likely going on i've just said yes so i remember trask is going to start reporting these things that aren't going to deal with what we've always dealt with which is the defense of working people and the elimination of the disgraceful poverty and inequality that existed right and still exist right throughout latin america and when the were right when the stablish went throughout the world led by the us were attacking working people and propping gork dictatorships we would opposing the
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united states we're not going to take any lessons from them now but we will undoubtedly condemn the type of issues that have been reported by amnesty international and other recognized. organizations thanks very much for being so.
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beat the germans new and surprising aspect some reason to culture join. us american music takes a look at germany this increasing two traditions everyday life language this time i
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. saw a. good. guy r t w dot. meet the germans. listening and if. you look at me speak your language does that. for content in dari pashto and order prospects for returning our web special to the refugee journeys of life in germany and the prospects for those returning home. join the discussion on t w dot com and on facebook. prospects for returning s d w maybe for my. hash tag germany decides the day of decision is near. the coast you want germany to get what we want to bring a strong team to the campaign at the end but if the we in the f.t.p.
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have a new concept and the way sions is a virtue and you know my friends this will be a difficult election by we are ready to take responsibility and to help shape the of this country. we have more than enough parties participating in incumbent governments but not the left party germany can do better. polls in germany open on september twenty fourth. what do germans want for their country. what do the different parties stand for. and which party will come out on top. d w your expert on germany's bundestag election two thousand and seventeen. hash tag germany decides german bundestag election two thousand and seventeen on d w.
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this is daily news live from berlin a day after u.s. president donald trump threatens to destroy north korea germany's chancellor offers to help resolve the north korea crisis. even though this conflict is far away from germany is over.


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