tv DW News - News Deutsche Welle January 21, 2018 3:00pm-5:00pm CET
this tuesday. from berlin special coverage as the future of europe's most powerful country and the political fate of its chancellor vote in the balance today to social democrats are voting yes or no on starting talks to form a new government four months after election day will the guest be part very good with the conservatives and chancellor angela merkel has previously or martin schultz says it is the only choice but not everyone agree.
with him it's in these coalition talks we've achieved a paradigm shift in the european politics of germany away from the policy of austerity because it gets on my nerves when people say the s.p.d. has now adopted the responsibilities of a civic minded citizen as if any other political party in this country could be more qualified to represent the people than the s.p.d. . and we cannot allow the far right f.t. to lead the opposition that would be unacceptable we just have to look at other european countries we cannot allow them to run in a grand coalition we're going to become the steer upholders of the conservatives i think we'd be better to go into opposition. it's good to have you with us german chancellor angela merkel's future as well as the political stability of germany could very well be decided this hour the country's central. social democratic party is due to hold
a key vote on whether to enter coalition talks with medicals conservatives after september's elections social democrat leader martin shultz said that his party would not go into government with them again but he backtracked under pressure after the collapse of talks for a multi party government now schultz says a coalition with the conservatives is the only realistic option but he faces strong resistance from within his own party a no vote could lead to a minority government which merkel has already said she won't lead or it could lead to fresh elections. should they seek to join another coalition government with angle americans conservatives or should their priority be to renew their own party so they can win back support pave lost in recent years that is the tough choice facing this congress of social democrats the s.p.d. leadership are united in arguing in favor of the deal leader martin schulz told
delegates that many people are looking to the s.p.d. to represent them against conservative policies the only move in the no name on. the farm workers pension is single parents school students and trainees people who are renting their homes these are our people these are the people who are relying on us for not it's also also said the rise of nationalism across europe means social democratic ideas are more needed than ever. is a nation of billick can you know. this right wing wave across europe can be broken by a german government which supports democracy human rights freedom in europe just because the s.p.d. is part of it of that reason alone it's worth joining this government can even you know saying you know it's not everyone at this conference is convinced by these arguments the influential leader of the s.p.d. youth wing is bitterly opposed to another coalition with angle a miracle. it's been made up absolute this out people have negotiated well the fact
that i and many others are not satisfied with the result is not down to bad negotiation but to the fact that after twelve years or mangle america after eight years of grand coalition a common ground has been used up. all of them often to begin with and one cannot see what all the six hundred delegates here agree on is that sunday afternoons decision has the potential to be a turning point for germany's political life. all right now as part of our coverage i'm joined here at the big table by a degree our chief political correspondent and thomas sparrow he joins us from boston he is covering this p.d. . party conference four's good evening to you thomas i mean you've covered quite a few of these in your time and we do one has a lot more at stake than just the future of a political party doesn't it me talk to me a little bit about. what is at stake here in the mood. and even the
delegates branch also recognize that this is about much more than simply what direction the party will take martin chose the leader of a social democrats even said that this was all about the future of europe that the future of europe also had also played our part to kill an important role here at this party conference the mood in that sense is tense it is clearly divided there is a big division between those who believe that the party should enter a formal coalition folks that are going to cause conservatives and those who are definitely opposed would prefer the party to end the opposition entering the opposition would also mean preventing the alternative for germany from becoming the biggest party in opposition there are definitely pro and contra arguments regarding this important decision from the s.p.d. but it is certainly clear that it is not only about them it's about the future of germany also about the future of europe as martin shows himself put it. and if you
had a chance to do so to look but do we know when the vote is going to take place now and is there any way to estimate when the vote will occur. what the delegates standing behind me have said is that they would like the party conference to end in about two hours but there are plenty of people who want to talk before who want to give their opinion who want to try and convince the party delegates here so there is no certainty as to when that could happen but it to be expected that it will happen before four thirty local time here in boston ok so you have a view another hour hour and a half melinda i mean this must be one of those days where the german chancellor must be watching the other party and knowing that her future is being decided today someone to some degree i mean the first heads likely to roll if there is a no vote against this position paper and essentially against proceeding with
coalition occasions the first heads are those of the party leaders sitting in that room that we just saw undoubtedly martin schulz would then not continue and the fact is as he very clearly outlined today the entire party leadership was involved in negotiating the position paper they're voting on today in other words if they say no to that no to coalition to go she asians they essentially those who say no are rejecting their entire party leadership so first question for the s.p.d. will be who then starts running the party the twenty eight year old head of the party's youth wing who spoke very well today but is he the one who then takes over then as far as the chancellor's fate yes very problematic and it's been made here clear as well today as well that nobody thinks that angela merkel is about to move toward a leading a minority government in other words a part of a government in which she would have to constantly be cobbling together out of this and she doesn't want to get anything passed so what that means is were most likely
to see some kind of procedural followup whereby she might formally be elected chancellor by the bundestag simply so that she'd call a vote. no confidence and pave the way for official acts and fresh elections so she undoubtedly would also then stand down to make room for new leadership in her own party so in fact we have a potential chain of events here that could see most of the leaders of the current on the current political stage leaving it and thomas i mean are people talking about you know how dire the situation is there where you are in particular what about what about the the young members of the s.p.d. we know that the leader of the social democrats youth we i mean he spoke today he does not want this grand coalition he wants the s.p.d. he wants to go into the opposition and he wants to leave the business of governing to merkel and the conservatives are people there willing to take that jump.
well i'd like to add something to what melinda just said because this idea what could happen to us if there is a no vote as such only been discussed in the last few days among s.p.d. members when they've been off about that their reaction has been to say that this is not about specific people but about topics and about issues but it is clearly the case that the leadership of the s.p.d. are not only modern shows of facing a very difficult moment here on how to the difficult moment has to do with youth branch they use those that you mention they have become in a way the symbol of resistance to another grand coalition they've also been touring many parts of germany explaining their position stressing that they believe that their renewable of the party should happen not within another grand coalition but outside of a grand coalition because they believe that it was the grand coalition that actually homage to the party that actually caused the party to have that very bad
result in the september twenty four elections and that it caused the party to lose its profile and they believe that that clear profile is one that they should try and rein you from outside the grand coalition and leading the opposition in germany our other correspondents on the spare will be coming back to utah must as we get closer to the voting there in bonn at the social democrats special already congress thank you. the stakes could hardly be higher for. if the social democrats vote no their special party conference she's facing to unsay very alternatives let's take a look at the chancers options if the s.p.d. decides that it will not go into government with her conservatives bringing germany into uncharted territory for months following the election. and what happens if the social democrats say no more grand coalition. there are
only two possible alternatives. either angle america would have to lead a minority government or fresh elections would be held a slim majority of germans would like to see fresh elections but according to the constitution angela merkel as acting chancellor is not in a position to simply call them what in the us the mention in the first parliament would have to formally elect the chancellor who was nominated by the german president of characters should she be nominated angle or merkel would have to win the votes of more than half of parliament in the first round of voting. if she fails to do so two more rounds of voting would take place. in the final round a simple majority would be enough to elect merkel chancellor. president steinmeyer could then appoint mccall as chancellor of the minority government she would then be able to govern by presenting legislation and securing majorities with the other parties on a case by case basis but merkel has consistently rejected this option as through
unstable. than with me and i'm saddened. all right we're back here in the studio now thomas barrow is that as pretty conference in bonn in berlin the crane our chief political correspondent is here with this is well so tomas again for our viewers just joining us now when are we looking at that critical vote taking place. it will happen in the next hour hour and a half far as what has been planned here and what we are hearing now right behind us is some of the delegates discussing their specific positions we heard martin shows the leader of the social democrats present his proposal his position we also heard kevin could not be influential leader of the youth branch he also gave a speech here but very important vote should come before four thirty local time and
about an hour and a half. it really we've talked about the political fate of these party leaders here being at stake today but that's just part of the equation isn't absolutely if you start with the biggest level and it was actually the point that martin schulz saved for last in his speech europe is at stake in a sense. cost the new president of france made some very significant proposals about where e.u. politics policies could be going right after the german election and that speech was time to coincide with the german election in hopes of influencing coalition to go she asians well that is now four months ago this is the longest period that germany has ever taken to form a new government the window of opportunity to work together with a man who call to reshape policy european level is not open indefinitely we are
looking toward e.u. elections coming up in the middle to near future and the fact is he is waiting for a response from germany many of his proposals have been directly tailored towards german preferences and needs so that starts out as being a very central area that's at stake and martin childes did make clear in his speech he said you know we have always been a party that looks toward the international social welfare as well as the national we need to be part of shaping europe so that's one level in the next level of course is the national level germany has a government that is functioning the kind of country remains governable but this is not to this temporary government this is not a government that is in the position to take far reaching initiatives on critical issues on issues that are holding this country back in its ability to adapt to change to adapt to the future that undermines trust in politicians in general so
there are really very critical issues at stake in this is. why of course the s.p. these initiatives here calls out of responsibility for europe and germany i want to pick up too on what smart was saying earlier about europe and the role of france and told us i don't know if you're heard the entire speech but when martin mentioned that he received a phone call yesterday from french president jacques rogge there was almost a silence in the room the reaction was not applause that you would think he was going to receive and he almost seemed for a couple of seconds discombobulated didn't know what to do how did you read that. well i've heard many times mr shows in these kinds of events and i would clearly say that this time in comparison to previous party conference the response and not only the response there from that particular moment that you mentioned was rather and to see our stick i mean there was
a round of applause at the end but certainly the youth wing that users had allowed a round of applause when they finished their speech and i just clearly shows that divide here if we specifically look at martin short of speech i would say that there were two key messages from him one is that he stressed that the party has already achieved a lot of its promises in the twenty eight page blueprint that it agreed with the conservatives during the exploratory talks in other words that policies that the party would like to present and push forward would be present in a so-called grand coalition in particular for example regarding social justice or also as melinda mentioned on europe europe has been a key topic for martin shows all along the second element element in that sense is that if they do take the grand coalition if they do go into a formal round of negotiations then they could still be able to adopt or amend some of those aspects of the twenty eight page document in other words that everything that was agreed during the exploratory talks will not simply be set in stone that
they could clearly discuss and change some of the aspects and it's an important part it is not certain that the conservatives would also agree to that the conservatives have been very reluctant in that aspect and have said that what was agreed with such all they would certainly like that what was agreed would remain as it is or very close to what it was written in dark paper or atomosphere or at that speed the party congress there involved germany thank you told us you know as we have said it is a make or break day for the social democrat leader martin short see has already made it clear that if his party does not back formal talks with the conservatives it will mean the end of his leadership made an impassioned plea to the harley party delegates earlier today let's have a listen to part of his speech. other videos billion dollars on the never does it take so long in germany to form a government that's new. is something we have never experienced here and we've got
a difficult situation indeed and let me be very clear. this is a democratic novelty this special situation is not something that we are responsible for and it was not us who go she ated for weeks on end only to appear in front of voters with empty hands we're the ones who are saying no matter what we are able to achieve under no circumstances would we be any government that's not my attitude that is not my past that is not the reason for me to and politics and that can't be the position of the chairman of the social democratic party of germany. there is wrong each wing movement in europe look at the government in vienna prague or just look at virus to budapest. and i mentioned men mark wrong why did i did do that. i'm
not in keeping with the opinions of particularly with regard to the economics policies of his about a french president. who doesn't put the nation at first place but euro. he is a president who is waiting for a partner if he fails with this european policy it can't be excluded that even in paris the extreme right wing movement will come into government and comments i believe that we are part. which supports international solidarity and the fight against the right wing movement of this right wing movement can be broken in europe through a german government which is committed. towards europe and they would commit themselves for these ends by a social democratic party to of germany becoming part of the government. our there
was more insults there speaking earlier melinda let's talk a little bit about what he said there you know as you said earlier he was talking about this being a party that is international and its interest its history everything about it is international he is trying to buck a trend that he sees not only threatening his party in germany but all of europe as well as north america is an absolutely we're seeing across the globe a phenomenon of national retrenchment of people who feel that globalization has hurt them people who are worried about where the where the future is taking us saying we need to go back to national politics in politics we need to essentially take care of ourselves first make america first and we hear it there but we really hear that spirit everywhere now and i think he made the point martin
schultz in this speech and i think he's absolutely right about this. germany's future rests also in the welfare of europe and he has made very clear proposals the party has made very clear proposals about what germany now wants to see europe do more investment in europe this is something that social democrats have been pushing for for a long time right now i see it in our second monitor here right now the head of germany's unions is speaking at and he undoubtedly will be saying they have been supporting going ahead with coalition to go and he undoubtedly will be reiterating the same message if we don't take care of the european house then the german house will not flourish either and this position paper that they're voting on includes some very real concessions to the s.p.d. on e.u. policy starting with that investment program but minimum wage across europe very very crucial to set
a floor under wages to prevent wage dumping and to prevent competition between e.u. member countries in a race to the bottom very important provision we've also seen a very very clear sense that there needs to be a stability fund that will help indebted countries that will help them get back on their feet again a real move in a different direction from that that we saw under finance minister shortlist so exact lots of lots of movement here in this position paper that perhaps not all of the s.p.d. delegates who are nationally minded see as important but frankly they will also affect the fate of this country what he also said in his speech that this is the end of the policy of austerity not only for germany but he does want to see austerity continue in europe and it is true of you that austerity has been the bumi on the what we've talked about greece we've talked about portugal we've talked about the euro crisis austerity has been the the solution that seems to have been imposed by germany he wants to change that he does and many people would say that
the eye. odds of being able to change that look significantly better with. no longer in the finance ministry post because he was absolutely a bulwark of that austerity policy or of what martin shultz would call neo liberalism now the fact is that post has been vacated it's very unclear who might get it in a grand coalition but there is clear impetus in this position paper on europe and you know it was interesting in his speech he said he keeps hearing from members of the party well where are the real beacons in this position paper where is the one big issue that really really reflects our interests and he said very clearly it's not only about one big issue it's about lots of different issues in lots of areas europe is one but he said education we have achieved significant concessions in the area of education in education is crucial to making this country fit for the future
well the biggest of those concessions is that the federal level would now be able to work together with states to shape education to shape the way it's funded to shape the way which is being generous something that the social democrats have long pushed for until now they haven't gotten it again it's pretty significant i think what we're seeing here is that whole discussion between do you look for the optimum and thereby possibly make the perfect the enemy of the good as barack obama like to say or do you look at what you've been able to achieve within a framework of compromise and certainly that's what the s.p.d. lead leadership is telling you if you take it to its extreme which we're hearing from the young members of the s.p.d. the conservatives herself the chancellor they represent part of this really nationalization that we see in the fall of everyone and who would never present herself as someone who could identify with the trunk train for example or the
bridge city years but that where she is class of. by if you're looking at it through martin schultz's lenses that's correct particularly in the area of european union policy if you look at what the last grand coalition actually achieved in terms of social welfare on the domestic level it certainly doesn't look all that neoliberal thanks not least to the fact that the s.p.d. did put it stamp on that we saw minimum wage here in germany finally we saw improvements in various other socio economic areas but the fact is the voters found that the s.p.d. was largely invisible in the coalition's right and that's why another message that we heard very strongly here today from party leadership is if we go into a grand coalition again you're going to see our signature all over the place and we are going to govern i shoulder to shoulder with the conservatives now whether the party basis really trusts them with that assertion is into how i think and how can the party base and particularly the you know the younger week of the party how can
they trust anyone who is in the leadership of the party who's coming out of these four years being in a in a grand coalition with a track record that the s.p.d. here that's i mean these are the same people saying don't judge us by what we did judges by what we're promising to do i mean that's that's harder so although molly dreier the the deputy head of the party she said very clearly today you know what we don't have enough self-confidence we did achieve things in the grand coalition and she's right about that so part of the but i'm going to make it was always very good co-opting into it right indeed that is definitely true the fact is nonetheless the very well spoken young mr kevin cannot and we saw in that earlier report he has said he doesn't want to see heads roll he's not out to get the entire party leadership but that could be the result if he succeeds with with his no to the grow co as they call it nurture the growth which means no to the grand coalition which
is basic. what he fears will be a repeat of the past four years that we've seen in germany let's talk about what we're seeing also here is we've got a generation of conflict going on too with the young versus the old and it's personified right now in the head of the as bts youth wing isn't it it absolutely is the party has a very clear axis of conflict running right through it that youth wing being as you so often is idealistic insisting that the party needs to essentially go into exile in order to we knew it was i don't enter the. on the other hand that particular youth wing is too young and too inexperienced to take on leadership of the party so there's a big gap in the middle and that is equally true of the conservative party in many respects there are very few promising young experienced leaders in let's say the
half generation below angela merkel are in the fund and so both parties have a real dilemma here and it's part of the reason that people say although germany is flourishing what does the future look like and it looks pretty uncertain to be how much how much of the blame can we put under the member for this because we're talking about a and up and coming leader in the social democrats we're not talking about an up and coming leader in the conservatives right it's almost as if she's been chance of the twelve years and. proteges have been not exist well as you know she did a very good job of getting rid of some of those who could have been the strongest rivals to her own leadership militant me and because we're going to go back to bonn now i understand our thelma sparrow is standing by now with mr stigler he is
a member of the s.p.d. a familiar face here on d w hello gentlemen. that's correct that's correct brad i'm here with mr say you know one of the deputies of the s.p.d. and the first question that i'd like to ask you mr stagnates how confident are you that the six hundred delegates here will back your position on the position of the party leadership to enter formal talks with the conservatives fairly confident that this will happen we had a really strong debate here which is of course. this proves that the social democrats have a lively democracy and that people are very engaged in worrying about the fate of our party but it's also about the fate of our country and europe and therefore i think this is the best possibility that we have to go into very serious and very hard negotiations with the conservative party and then the decision to the members of our party four hundred sixty thousand members who will decide the end i think this is a good way to do just one of the aspects that mr schultz presented in his speech is
that there could be changes to the agreement after the exploratory talks but how are you going to achieve those changes when the conservatives don't want any change when the conservatives are saying that basically what was agreed during the exploratory talks just like that exploratory exploratory talks are talks a lot negotiations and therefore they may say what they want if they want to have a treaty with us they will have to move and besides that the rule tells them that all members of a creature that if there won't be changes in very major parts and there really negotiations haven't started yet and we've seen that they don't have any contents that conserves they don't want they don't know what they really want to see what happens and i think we will be strengthened by the party convention today even if it's. how the party convention agrees to it but it will help us through a negotiated with the senior and the c.s.a. but aren't you concerned about the evident division of party delegates here between
those who would favor those formal negotiations and those who are a day. inst i know the grand coalition and no cocoa comp if you will know i think it's very good for our democracy that we have a lovely divide and everybody is worried about the future of our party and we're not a military base as the conservative party is there's no discussion at all in the camp and that. that is sort of what is what's the difference to our party i think that's a good thing thank you very much mr brant back to you after this interview with one of the deputies of the s.p.d. all right thomas fareed thank you very much so there we have a right there military we've got a deputy in the speedy saying admitting you know we're going to get this yes vote tonight the margin may not be big but we just want to get through it was interesting to hear him almost talk about this party conference as if it were a negotiating tactic and after this they're going to have
a lot more room to maneuver in coalition negotiations the fact is as thomas mentioned in his question the party overnight agreed to an additional list of issues that they would want to put on the table in coalition negotiations it is not at all clear that they are going to get more concessions from the conservatives on these points they are very crude the crucial points one there may be some flexibility it would be on whether family members of refugees are allowed to join them in hardship cases might be some room for compromise on that but on the other two issues it's pretty problematic one involves the end of what they call a two class do a class health care systems very difficult the other one has to do with temporary work contracts and neither of those are areas where the chancellor shown much indication that she's willing to move so here's the problem if they don't get that message to the chief that in the coalition to go she asians and then they go back
to their party their core voters as as it had just mentioned with. this referendum and say what do you think they may have just actually made it harder to get and yes at that stage but i think it's easy to the mistake was having to explain not only to us but also to the conservatives what exploratory talks means exploratory right so you can see it's just that the conflict is programmed in there thank you very much we'll be coming back to you as we get closer to that vote we're going to move now to other news other events happening around the world we're going to start with turkish backed fighters who have reportedly entered the northwestern syria town of a from the attacks are part of an offensive on kurdish militia that is calling operation olive branch turkey's military says it has so far struck more than one hundred fifty kurdish militia targets in northern syria.
marches leave on these boys chant as the turkish tanks surge by them towards the syrian border. many in turkey south have been celebrating the army's offensive operation all of branch. the vase people the soldiers a sighting to keep from the kurdish insurgents. amongst government supporters to the mood is one of. president richard type two one addresses a huge rally in the country's northwest he promises that he's operation will be soon for a third day now turkish motives have been running down on series after an region. the army reports advances that's disputed by the kurdish militia they're fighting but this isn't a battle could this militia in afrin enclave of facing one of knighthoods largest armies and finale that could support is in washington and moscow looking on after backing the could see against islamic state
a fact that dismays could spike in syria and in turkey. as well to to kill a the global powers in the united nations the poet to the kurdish people because of the struggle kurds carried out against the islamic state and. then later what. i want these attacks to stop. to the syrian operation doesn't come without risks for turkey not several rockets from syria landed in a turkish border city one person has been reported wounded as turkey escalates its involvement in syria the dangers to civilians on both sides of the border. you have this is definitely a powder keg that the world is watching we want to go now to our correspondent julie hunt she joins us now from istanbul good evening to you julia we understand that turkish forces have crossed the border into syria and are attacking the region
what were can you tell us tonight. well yes the turkish military has confirmed the ground offensive has started so took soldiers on moving into along side as we hear about twenty five five thousand fighters of the so-called free syrian army that's a pro uncle or a rebel group we also hear reports of turkish warplanes hitting further kurdish targets in syria and there are also reports of a rockets fired from syria that has hit a turkish border town at least one person was killed and many more injured that's what turkish media are reporting so overall turkey this weekend has started another front in the syrian war making an already very complex situation even more complex and the language we hear from is that this is just going to be the beginning they are planning to move into another majority kurdish town called mun beach further north and the big question is what will this mean for the civilian population in
the area there are a couple of hundreds of thousands of civilians inside and around often and for them these days are not going to be safe days yes to talk about the situation in africa in just a moment when i ask you though is there a lot of talk there in turkey about the potential conflict that we see developing here that could develop and that is you've got these turkish forces clashing with forces in northern syria that are backed by the u.s. i mean are we is it being discussed in turkey that we could have turkish and u.s. forces standing you know face to face. well of course this is a huge topic here but you have to know there are no american soldiers inside the efren area so we will not see turkish an american soldiers actually fighting each other directly but yes this is highlights highlighting the complexity of the
situation you have a nato ally turkey actually bombing kurdish forces that the u.s. considers its most important ally in their fight against the so-called islamic state group so you see this is a very messy situation after all and of course this is a very huge topic and it's going to further complicate relations between the two nato partners turkey and the u.s. yeah you know it comes down to the fact that turkey and the united states have very different attitudes and opinions about kurdish groups we know the turkish president . has failed to flush out what he describes as terrorist from the kurdish enclave in northern syria why do kurdish groups why do they pose such a threat to turkey well to keep a long story short the turkish president and the government in ankara considers these syrian kurdish groups terrorist groups with close links to the banned
kurdistan workers party the p k k that has waged as a decades long fight incites turkey the serious syrian corage are actually denying those slings you have to know that as well but especially feel full of a so-called kurdish corydoras developing along its border has which might then inspire the separatists notions among turkey's kurdish population are the corresponding julia hall of the story for us tonight and julia thank you very much . here are some other stories now that are making headlines around the world the iraqi government has condemned a german woman to death by hanging after finding her guilty of belonging to a so-called islamic state a baghdad court said the woman who is of moroccan descent had traveled to syria and then to iraq to join the terrorist organization the taliban have claimed responsibility for a deadly twelve hour long siege on a hotel in kabul afghanistan's interior ministry says four afghans and fourteen
foreigners were killed on saturday evening three gunmen stormed the landmark intercontinental hotel firing it guests and detonating grenades. u.s. vice president mike pence has met with jordan's king abdullah on a visit to jordan the two men discussed president donald trump's controversial move to declare jerusalem the capital of israel. urged pens to rebuild trust and confidence in the two state solution between the palestinians and israel. in romania the masses have returned to the streets to protest corruption at the highest level at the heart of the country's ruling elite there were occasional scuffles with police as an estimated fifty thousand people converged on the capital bucharest with smaller demonstrations taking place across the country. was
romanians have had enough countries ranked one of the most corrupt in europe and now people are turning on the politicians tens of thousands descended on parliament many carrying giant yellow hands with the slogan of justice. people traveled from right across the country to join the demonstration. and necessary nobody paid us to protest with simple citizens who pay taxes and we can no longer tolerate this . senseless rumania has seen the biggest wave of popular dissent since the fall of communism many blame this man for bringing things to a head. he's head of the main party in government the social democrats he's banned from becoming prime minister because of a conviction for vote rigging them he's party has passed legislation to decriminalize some graft offenses it's also pushed through
a judicial overhaul which critics say limits judicial independence the moves haven't just drawn the people's washington and the e.u. have also been sharply critical. of the hamburg has fired coach mark. the move came a day after the team lost a kilo the league's last place. left hamburg in the relegation zone and seventy placed next to last night's. over the team in twenty sixteen and they narrowly avoided being sent down last season after saturday's defeat to fellow reporters that he had given his all for the club with passion and heart. on that match in hamburg. walking onto the pitch for what would be his last match his stall knew he had to have three points against cologne despite the pressure hamburg
were united before the game. but it was the visitors who struck first the moment to row to finishing off the assist in the twenty seventh minute the new signing latched on to yellow psycho's neat flick to beat denise dick my the old after the break hamburg struggled in failed to find their four. in the sixty seventh minute torode i was back for more work were the first brace for the journey two goals in a needed win for cologne oh ok stefan rutan back was all smiles the defeat subsequently it did mark his gaze dollars ten years after two years in four months at the club. start as we heard there but is that your club hamburger fired coach marcus gives dog the move came a day after the team lost to cologne which is the league's out last place club
chris harrington here with us sports desk here to talk about how bad things really are i mean how big is what now the second to last place team in the bundesliga i guess they had to do something it isn't forcefully familiar territory for hamburg but any time you lose your fourth on the bounce you have to sever ties with the coast because it's easier you can't win the sever ties with the players it's very difficult to do that since it it expects of his wealth you know so mark is just all in his two assistant coaches got their walking papers in to make it worse you mention this cologne rock bottom of the league they've been stinking things up but they are in a way of momentum as of late in that showed yesterday on the pitch but let's take a look now your father reports on hamburg final match under marcos just a listicle. uh . huh.
you let's talk a little bit about the new because i thought we'd want to get you the story chris but i think there's a problem with the rundowns let me talk about the new right yeah well the organization they promised they would make an announcement soon and they did it they coined bana holland a former player for hamburg as the fill in the replacement for mark is just all and you know it's good we don't know much about him he does have some coaching experience with the second division were verts berga kickers other than that his heyday he played over one hundred he made over one hundred appearances for hamburg you know back in the day you know for eight years so that's one thing in favor city new direction that's all we know about hamburg is very important they stay in the top flight because they are a founding member of the blue as they get and unlike every other team hamburg is the only one yet to be relegated but they're known for their relegation battles of
course we have to see if they can change things around with their new man in charge so who's next who's next in terms of the coach hollenbach but in terms of what's next a lot of other big matches tonight we have two big matches you byron munich they host vertebrae mint that's going to be a wash in my opinion nothing byron will walk away victorious and schulte a surprise a nice surprise is he's in both teams are in the top half of the table by of course our leading things shall co-host hand over and i do think victory for both home sides tonight or three will if that happens press hearing from our sports death press thank you very much ok. all right we're going to go back to our top story now and it is that crucial vote that is taking place today in bonn germany by germany's social democrats on whether or not to enter formal negotiations to join a grand coalition government with the conservatives bank of america now we've seen on the americans conservatives they are hoping for
a yes vote from the social democrats but many members of the s.p.d. are still deeply unconvinced by the prospect of their party in another coalition under are. nowhere more so than in the party's youth organisation their leader has been highly critical of coalition talks we called up with him earlier this week to meet the man who's trying to stop another grand coalition. six months ago no one knew who he was now it seems everyone wants a piece of kevin care net at just twenty eight the leader of the s.p.d. as youth wing is on a mammoth mission to stop another grand coalition between the social democrats and the conservatives what germans call the. nod we reject a renewed grand coalition because we convinced it wouldn't be right for democracy in germany and we consider it negligent to let the far right to have become a leading opposition party with us and for the second time in two months cannot
will be locking horns with s.p.d. parties and mohsen shots on sunday as he bids to convince party delegates to vote no. obvious grass roots support q not believes this is the only way for the s.p.d. to regenerate after damaging is in tehran medical government's. the finish business for me is the kind of politician who who certainly shape the future of this party. that they tried to is a very talented up and coming politician he's still young and everything lies ahead of him i think something will become a have. even pozen members who support the idea of a grand coalition have high hopes for canucks political future important t.v. and put in the most positive sense he's a politics junkie he breathes politics but at the same time he's matter of fact and stands by his opinion and he definitely has a big future as a. kid that became
a member of the s.k. day at just fifteen in the same year that angle of michael was first elected chancellor but can it snow grow coke campaign now threatens to end a twelve year reign. that's because that's how i think i'm going to michael's time in office will soon end because her policy model simply no longer works you can sit on issues forever and make no decisions the things aren't going to get automatic lee better when she's no longer a chance like america is but one of constant is it's a classic tale of experience against youth neighing first is nobody but they snow today could well be the straw that breaks the camel's back in germany's chancellor . we're back here in the studio now melinda crane our chief political correspondent here to my right and tell us sparrow is in bonn germany where that as biggie congress taking place always let me ask you is this is the man that we just saw in that report the head of the youth organization for the s.p.d.
is he the star of this congress. well i've seen kevin cannot speak on various occasions not only here today but i know the party conferences as well and you can clearly see say that he's a very eloquent person and a person that kind of make people clap and round of applause today believe me brant when he spoke was in fact louder than the round of applause that martin shows received when he spoke right before cannot we can clearly say also that coup not has become a symbol of resistance towards that grand coalition he in a way represents all those members here in the social democrats and not only the young members of the social democrats who believe that the way forward for the s.p.d. is by not joining another grand coalition he has argued on many occasions that the party should remain you itself the party should read. lost trust by precisely
stepping aside by precisely not joining on the michael again and making bad profile in the party from the opposition but it obviously it's difficult to say whether he will manage to also make other delegates here today follow his ideas about something that we will see when the delegates the six hundred delegates who are meeting here in vaughan vote on whether to approve the formal talks with the conservatives. listless need to broaden this out we've got there but he represents so much more than just the inner problems of the search for democrats and he represents a generational clash that we hear more and more about in germany when it comes to political representation the old not representing the young we're seeing that in german politics more and more and i know people around the world watching they hear all the time germany is a green country do you do young people have a voice in politics here well interestingly enough if you look at the breakdown in
voting during september selection then you do. you see that younger voters tended rather to vote for the social democrats than for the chances conservatives for example so they have a somewhat younger. base than in fact a number of the other parties and nonetheless as you say certainly within the party leadership there aren't a lot of really promising young figures although you know kevin cannot is constantly saying i've just been listening to an interview with him on the margins of the party conference and he said it once again for me this isn't about personnel and i'm tired of that old way of thinking about politics in terms of faces and individuals but if i were the current party leadership i would be asking myself what job can we give him in the government because frankly and you know there are so many important issues that are crucial issues for young people from education to digitalisation both of the parties put into this position paper that would be the
basis for further negotiations that digitalization is one of the trends that they think is going to be so important for society in the future but the answers in the position paper are very thin indeed we need young savvy people thinking about these issues so i think there's a lot of room for for him to be working on his resume with hope at some very interesting positions even if he rejects that kind of personnel i have a feeling regardless of how this vote goes today or how the government is of looking like i think he has a future in politics that's for sure but linda stand by now we want to take this story to brussels our colleague barbara visa list ending by good evening to you barbara but let's talk a little bit about what's at stake here for europe and what we're watching today i mean is the european union running out of patience in waiting for its most
important its largest member to get its political act together. the european union of course is not officially running out of patient friend because that would be not allowed and of course they also used countries taking a long time to cobble together a coalition government just last year we looked at the nothern nansen it took them seven months but of course there's a big difference germany is the country that has more or less run the show in europe for the last ten years not officially of course the government was always for object that idea but in officially behind the scenes i'm glad marco was the one who was was really the mover in the european rayna and now we have been for months since september without german government that the day to day politics of course the machinery runs on bot decisions need to be made and the nerves are really considerably getting more frayed hit brussels we've been hearing
today barbara that if you look at what the social democrats want to do with a new government it is much more pro european union compared to what the conservatives in germany may want to do in terms of fiscal policy in terms of spending so how does it pan out than in brussels i mean does brussels prefer to see a grand coalition with the s.p.d. getting its way or does the all stary here and still remain. of course for us of would absolutely love to see a grand coalition in berlin and that is quite clear i mean marching schultz was the president of the european parliament he is essentially of wrestle with politician i mean that's where you sort of had his main career that's where he was hard was for four decades really and he was always a very passionate politician on the on the european scene so people know him and
know what to expect from him and they know that he wants to to push europe forward so absolutely yes no way of course they wouldn't say that officially they always very careful about saying no we don't interfere in the democratic processes of the member countries and so on it's a forest but everybody here of course hopes that this is going to go right in the sense that there will be another few years even a grand coalition just enough time to sort of push some reforms for with that in london mccrum the french president has proposed to sort of start dealing with the new budget and to get over and through the brics of negotiations those are the most important points at the moment we were talking earlier barbara about the speech that we heard today from martin schultz the topic of europe of the european union that was the last topic in his speech and when he mentioned the audience that he had spoken yesterday on the phone with mr mark wrong he got
a very muted very tepid. reaction. let me get your perspective on this it could become we're seeing in politics all over europe that this closeness to the e.u. or even being a supporter of the european project could become a political liability domestically is that raising a lot of alarms there in brussels. that is really a double edged i mean look at him on the corpsman he one election was the european with europe sort of right in front of his political agenda and he never hid that away he never said i'm a frenchman first and then maybe further down the way i'm somehow also european you always said we need europe we need to work together in europe and so he had he had this huge election when so in the on the other hand you look to for instance austria where the opposite is true so the social democrats in germany seem to have
a problem was this sort of like the tradition of internationalism that used to be in the history at the moment they're really focused on the it seems on the national agenda and much insureds is trying to sort of drag them behind him his own his own sort of movement and say we need to go forward in europe they do so grudgingly it's not a particularly good sign. our correspondent in brussels or provisional giving her analysis tonight yes we await that by the social democrats your body stand by we'll come back to you a little bit later on thank you. melinda we understand now that we are very close to that vote and you're it was talk about this because this your ball again i mean it's a big divide or it can be a big divider in politics year and we're seeing that possibly in this coalition
the lead comes to fruition well the leadership first of all let's talk about the party itself the leadership views the european issue as very important martin schulz of course came into politics to run for chancellor of germany directly from brussels you know he made his political career in brussels and we must never forget that he has a level of expertise and also passion on europe that is unparalleled which is one reason why if in fact we do see a grand coalition formed in my view he needs to be part of it shaping european union policy you know that is very very important there have been calls namely from his party for him to say that he wouldn't go into a cabinet so that he can concentrate on renewing the party what is going to be greeted fortunately he did not agree to that in his speech and hopefully it won't come to that frankly because i think this country very much needs his expertise in that area but then yes now so now let's look there are divisions in the party the party base. is not currently seeing the e.u.
as a key area it simply is not a main area of focus they want to see traditional socio economic issues issues around the health care system issues around education issues around payroll taxes and others they want to see those absolutely on the top of the priority list so there's a division there then there's a vision division between the chancellors conservatives and the s.p.d. and that's why the position paper is interesting because it shows real movement toward the s.p.d. s. positions on a number of important issues like more funding for investments in europe which of course people hope could drive jobs more funding for youth unemployment to combat it important issues and issues that really also would redound to the benefit of the middle class here in germany right melinda stand by here the states have we been saying could hardly be higher for the german chancellor angela merkel if the social
democrats vote no there are special party comp conference she is facing two unsavory alternatives who want to take a look at the chancellor's options if the s.p.d. the social democrats if they decide that it will not go into government with her conservative bringing germany into unchartered territory for months after the election. what happens if the social democrats say no more grand coalition. there are only two possible alternatives and either angela merkel would have to lead a minority government or fresh elections would be held a slim majority of germans would like to see fresh elections but according to the constitution angle americal as acting chancellor is not in a position to simply call them one does the mention in the first parliament would have to formally elect the chancellor who was nominated by the german president of characters should she be nominated angle or merkel would have to win the votes of
more than half of parliament in the first round of voting. if she fails to do so two more rounds of voting would take place. in the final round a simple majority would be enough to elect merkel chancellor. president steinmeyer could then appointment as chancellor of the minority government she would then be able to govern by presenting legislation and securing majorities with the other parties on a case by case basis but merkel has consistently rejected this option as too unstable men than with me if i'm saddened when you've been. all right but you're at the big table now with melinda's so the woman behind is here the german chancellor angela merkel i mean a lot at stake for her right now we hear time and time again that her party she herself is responsible for much of the malaise and much of the problems that
we're seeing in the social democrats she said true she has taken her conservatives ever more into the middle of the political spectrum she herself is a centrist and a pragmatist and she certainly has taken over co-opted a lot of issues that would have perhaps been social democratic or even green party territory so that is one piece of it another piece is just the structure of a grand coalition the junior partner in a grand coalition even if it achieves a lot of its goals and in fact the s.p.d. did they made significant progress on minimum wage they made significant progress on on pensions and on a host of other issues that we have that we don't get credit for it however got there my credit or it's important to also listen to what some of the party leadership was saying today we heard molly dreier the the deputy head of the party and very beloved among the party base saying you know what we're not confident enough we don't show enough self-confidence and and in our own ability to effect.
change and then another very very popular member of the party leadership the head of the parliamentary group grew out of the social democrats she has told this party conference listen you know what angela merkel is not responsible for our problems neither is the silly alison adult for her transportation minister she said our problems are homemade and we need to be working on them ourselves so i think there is a sense within the party we can't push it all off on to the conservatives and this idea that the grand coalition is responsible for all of our misery is causal and self's. and you know in the run up to the election less of him but we spoke time and time again about the fact that a lot of the achievements of the social democrats the past four years they just did not resonate didn't stick with the voters i mean we had story after story asking people on that you know the street about certain achievements of which party was
responsible and the social democrats never got the credit i heard it myself so whose fault is that. indeed hardly a structural issue it really is. the grand coalition essentially begins to assume the face of the person who is at the head of it and i think to some degree perhaps it was also. to some degree personnel policies one sigma gabriele took over the foreign ministry he was able to make a much bigger splash have a much more visible presence than perhaps he had had before as economics minister but i think it's largely just in the eight in a grand coalition that the junior partner has a hard time putting its visible stamp on things for voters who are watching politics twenty four seven which of course we are we know what those achievements were but a voter who turns on the news in the evening and mostly sees that face may come to
conclude that if things are achieved during those four years in power then it has more to do with her so was are going to be different if we go into another great coalition of the young people young members of the few details of your regrets that you have a point that's what they're asking themselves absolutely because they've heard their party leader martin schultz saying look we're going to be governing eye to eye shoulder to shoulder we're going to put our identity onto this under this coalition well isn't that something they were trying to do last time around so on that yes but you know where i do see a potential difference i think this level of european union policy even if it's not the first priority for a lot of the party base frankly a martin schulze driving that could be a very visible s.p.d. leader and and you know we'll see if they get their. what we'll have to see we have to see if it's if the personality and help this
beauty because it didn't help in the run up that was you know he left europe out of his election campaign astonishingly they played that very very very low i mean he was very popular when the announcement was made that he was the chancellor candidate but then he went down the never regained and we saw what happened dismal results on election day all right it is just after four pm here in berlin we are expecting a vote in bonn germany there is a special congress of the social democrats here in germany taking place right now a special vote the party members there are going to say yes or no to starting formal negotiations to form a grand coalition another grand coalition government with the conservatives of until america and as soon as that voting begins as soon as we are close to getting a result we're going to bring that to you we want to take the story beyond germany now we're going to take it to the u.k.
begin mohsin standing by in london good evening to you barry get well you know. i was trying to think if i heard the word breaks it mentioned one time today during the speeches melinda's you hear the word parts that it's almost as if the u.k. and breaks did not exist today at that s.p.d. congress what's your read on that. well it's the other way around here in the u.k. of course people want politicians want a stable government because they really need to move on with the bricks and negotiations there is not much time left until october to a deal on the transition agreement and also to move forward and hammer out a future relationship with between the u.k. and the e.u. and for that they really are hoping to have some support from germany now you've seen for a long time british politicians of argue that uncle america will come to britain's
help and she will help basically to to hammer out a really good deal for the u.k. no that has not happened yet and of course they don't know what would happen within a grand coalition it's not it's not known how that might change then i mix with the reps of negotiations but what they do want is a government that they can then that then helps to negotiate at the e.u. level and brussels would it not the big it would not be in the u.k. is interest for there to be more uncertainty here in germany let's say for this vote today with the search for democrats to be no to these talks for either a minority government to be forced into play or for new elections and that uncertainty that type of political havoc would maybe strengthen the u.k.'s hand in the brics the talks. well that has been mentioned here at the maybe at the right wing off the concept of policy when jacob riis malk
one of the leading citizens said well this is maybe an hour of germany's weakness and maybe we can somehow make a political gain out of this they came out we're going to let me just interrupt you we couldn't. put time of political instability in about one second while we were showing you live pictures from the s.p.d. are we going to get back to that let me ask my producer i'm going to go back to this thank you but this is different time ok so anyway because it's one of the let our viewers who are joining us now we're watching these are live pictures coming from bonn germany where the social democrats here in germany are voting are we going to listen in i want to ask my producer we're going to listen in. ok so let's take a moment listen if it's going to if you deny what sentiment is the. two would have to type of his listeners and i let anybody conference got a quorum i'd like to ask everybody to return huge numbers of to the cause because
if we have to didn't count the votes only those can be counted that were submitted in the home and i have to give the floor to martin schulz. you know single. comrades. he's going to stay there because the news a moment of inside your leader is the chairman isn't looking at what's happening here and i know that as people throughout germany for years i watching what we do is you know not to conferences and miss is a key moment if you want and the more recent history of our party. if you mean there's not that i'm done with you i want to thank you for all those who participated in this discussion you know no matter which position they represented i didn't think it was going to matter what the result is going to be like in a moment if you notice doesn't stop i believe it is
a moment that we can be proud of in the history of the social democratic party of germany because in such a tense situation. that's when you're not getting to me no not seduced. to engage in discussions i didn't speak to together i thought it was sense for respect tolerance and openness needs to show and live this openness transparency and respect internally and externally and i believe this is what we have showed and exemplary matter and i want to thank all delegates for that this is not in china malaysia is a decisive moment and the arguments have been exchanges the pros and cons i believe have been to sufficiently presented from both sides you know i'm a designer and bindi i want to express my gratitude towards those who
try to build a bridge with a motion that we are going to vote on to build a bridge and this sense that it is going to be comically as if the exploratory talks and the results are not the result of coalition negotiations but of course we need to continue negotiating when it comes to term contracts we will have to continue negotiating with regard to the two class health care system because these are those things that will make it clear that we're going to continue with our negotiations and i want to thank those who made the effort heads in the region. you know suggest is as if you are you know as i think you've used. to be so i want to thank those who are. unable to come together as jessica quoted something that i said earlier which i remember quite well yes. we must not escape into false compromises only be cause we're afraid of tough decisions we've
done that too often but now a decisive moment has come where we have to decide ourselves this moment has come for each of us. for everybody present here and. we should suppose it's not a speedy and i'm the chairman off the s.p.d. . and together with the executive committee and the president and the negotiators who participated during the extra talks i would like to ask behalf of them to give us the mandate to give us the trust so that we can continue negotiating on that basis with a check to. form a government after the end of the kurdish and negotiations. and i'm asking you to do that because. i will have to represent a position being the chairman of the party and let me mention three points briefly it's not us who brought along this special situation it was the failure of it
just like i clearly should and which create an entirely new situation here in germany to start negotiations with the very objective of a young man most government after a huge elections. it's true that we must not only part of a government in full any prizes but it's also a right that we shouldn't try to avoid being in government at any costs and this is true also and that's michael and i've been a supporter of the proposition of your highness rao the state premier of north rhine-westphalia and he's laid. i'm federalist presidential said one percent of something is more than one hundred percent of nothing. so if we can bring about good things for people living in this country if we can do
something good for europe and the people living in europe as i believe some and many of a different opinion but you should know my opinion and opinion of the party leadership then we should do it in the interest of these people and therefore i'm asking many . times so i'm. going to be. asking you and i believe that this path is the more courageous one to become part of government and to show that we can do something good for people in germany and in europe and in this sense i ask you with all respect and with all the gratitude for the fair debate that we have experienced here i ask you for your supposed. executive committee. it's one of the you know give us the supports to enter into coalition. negotiations thank you very much thank you very much martin we're. going on. and to make the decisions to be taken to the.
motions of executive committees i also one table emotionally and he said he made it. all these motions to have to you would in light and we're going to vote. on the motion of the executive committee the way it has been recommended to divide and by the election of your many years after that we're going to have a vote on the remaining motions the recommendations have made it to you too so this brings us to. the process of voting. and i'm asking you. for the. well we should also the executive committee and the version it's that has been submitted by the election committee i'd like you to raise your hands and bang thank you the assistant who is against this motion.
and the. abstentions. goodness in the must come heads. so i can there is a trend to be have to know to know to suppose but i would prefer to count votes because of the importance of this decision even existing interests. yes i live median so it's not like to ask all of its representatives of the media to clear the aisles. and we're going to proceed as follows was you know that's as soon as the members of the vote counting commission have forgotten his tuesday i asked him what the final position is on with the end of the vote again as the old three votes that is in favor of gains and abstentions will be put in the cold and counting it's i the member of the vote counting committee and only after that it's
the votes will be added and the result speak english proclaimed by a student of god when you. you're with the w.'s our special coverage of the social democrats voting yes or no on starting formal negotiations to form a grand coalition with the conservatives of i'm going to marry hold of to form a new government here in germany and we were just watching the vote and melinda you and i were watching of hands yes and no and we could not tell which side had the most hand so now they're going to what used to use the ballots right everyone can cast a vote and that will be counted and then we would know but it was as we had expected simply to plug ins to call and thomas sparrow he is standing by there in bonn at that party congress and thomas do we know how long is this
voting county how long is that you know. that was such a need take a few minutes brant in fact i'm speaking now rather quietly because everyone here in the room is just looking at that vote i think it's better if you go back and talk to melinda while this is being decided because i can't talk very loud here ok ok very good so it's mum is the word they are on site is we're hearing right now from our correspondent. you can probably hear. you know a thumb. some tax draw. i mean it is exciting that you're looking you know do you think we could get to tell us what in one word in one word tendency he saw because we could not discern attended. a yes or no show of hands well it's difficult to say we're from where we're standing we do have
the advantage that we're a bit high up in the delegates voting but it was definitely divided there's no way from where i quit i was stunned that i could say that there was a tendency in favor of yes or no they're about to give the results any second now and as you yourself said everyone here let's go listen in let's listen in. just tell me where the votes are counted. it's going to take a bit of time because as you can see they are picking up the ballots as they're going around and picking up the ballots from going to. be counted. i mean word. for no no they simply counting the ones held in the. ok we heard some cheering what was there and see.
there you can see them you can see in their faces right there they're uncertain about what's happening is that people are going around and i think counting roll for a row who's holding their ballot in the air. it thomas can confirm i mean is that what you're seeing. that's that's correct that's correct that's exactly what i'm seeing from here people are going around counting exactly the cards that the delegates have lifted expressing their vote in one direction or another now interestingly enough this means that those in the room and those who are watching to some degree know who voted for which position yeah it would have been possible to have an anonymous vote they've decided not to do that which is interesting to me more on the record here in terms of where they stand. and that is not it is not an accident is that no no no this is a choice that marty leadership you're seeing justice minister haass there and he could of course have decided to do this in a different way so he's this is the decision that the leadership has taken that
people are are on the record exactly so you're have to show your colors here. ok. and so far it's been counted and i'd like to ask for those who abstain from voting. it's. own you can now become famous if you do. very well you want to mention very few yards apart on the outside that you don't necessarily have to know this is definitely not an issue. and the tension is palpable you can really see it in the expressions of the party leadership. here we go. ok you have
a little bit nuts are going to. study only seats we're going to come to you count the numbers with the sentiment that the numbers and proclaim the results it won't take long. ok so now they're going to kill so there are a number of ushers were involved in the process so they will now be cold leading to mountain shoots to systems. so the counting process has begun right now and thomas where you are mean you're there looking down into the gallery. it's the tension and this instance is palpable isn't it can even see probably people standing here on the on the desks everyone with the telephones out taking photos or making a video of this it is still even silent now while they are counting the votes absolutely everyone in this room here in bonn is waiting for that result and it's
a result brant that will not only decide the future of the s.p.d. it were also decided to a large extent the next steps for anglo-american one seventy bloc and that's something that people here are clearly aware of and that's why everyone here judge it is delegates all the party members are united here as well such only looking and expecting the vote count to be presented any minute now in a minute now and as we were saying this was a show of hands at first and then it was a show of ballots but you also had to raise your ballot in the air have you heard even when they are. saying that they would have preferred. to cast their buy their ballots in to do it without anyone else knowing what they have a vote. no i think the important decision here was it was the vote and when they started raising the cots i think anyone no one here was able to say whether vote
went in one direction or another on the nose a reason why this is so so much tension here because the vote is a so divided is probably as divided as also a sign of how the party is divided as well no need you know after having gone through breck set and the election of donald trump to the presidency it seems to me that one grows more tense now it's said you know this is in the past we might have assumed well surely they are going to take the way that the initial elite would prefer and but the interesting thing is that we more and more are are seeing that pollsters and elites don't necessarily predict outcomes in the way that we were accustomed to in the past you know it is something that we've talked about all this week on the day the trump effect on the elections here in germany but also
here in europe in politics in the the lack of certainty now in which way the vote will go and also the lack of confidence and trust in leaders and you know idea of sending a message of protest i mean in a way that is what the young socialist wing is is doing they're saying we send a clear message here that we would rather not be part of shaping the political process under these circumstances we would rather simply step back and yeah. it is it isn't destructive in one way it's almost as if and here i'm thinking of steve bannon it's where you take the system that you've got used to you throw it against the wall you see what sticks right in with with what you're hearing from the week of this party there is a there is a sense of that we may not have the solution but we know how to break what we have
right now and one of the young speakers today said we've governed together with the chancellor's conservatives for eight years out of the twelve the she's been in power and the areas of commonality that we had where we could make movement in a direction that is true to our own party direction have basically been exhausted and so there is a sense that there's no room for real vision anymore in this system of compromise and of pragmatism and. one can agree or not agree without but it but in fact it does represent a willingness to as you say simply break with break with all the norms. and the order that you've known and if things break so be it remains intact you keep that but you have no way of predicting what will remain intact and that's the risk. with the trends that we're seeing right now.
and now we understand right now they are voting and if you're just joining us i want to let you know there was a show of hands. about ten minutes ago yes or no on the social democrats joining formally goshi ations with the conservatives to form a new grand coalition government here in germany it was too close to call and now we're going back to the now we're getting the results of the ballot and six. hundred and forty two have votes house and i was there three hundred sixty two and he pounds of two hundred seventy nine against one extension with which means that the s.b. he's going to enter into credits negotiation ok. there you go you see the relief on their faces right there martin shoulder speck i mean look at that you begin to see this is the came up stimulus. the idea of an.
tourists there are other i think there are other things that they're going to vote on but i think we can move on from there let me just as my producer do we want to stay with us if you feel. like. ok good all right we're going to keep on these live pictures here if you're joining us again i want to remind you what you're looking at in that is in social democrats they're having a special convention special congress where they have just voted it took to try to they have just voted to go into formal negotiations with the conservatives here in germany to form a grand coalition yet again our correspondent in brussels barbara barbara you're watching this just as we are this is exactly what the european union wanted to see happen as a result isn't it. totally i'm just bringing out france because that is signing this was a this was
a real nail biter and what you've been saying before you throw the system against the wall and see. what breaks and what sticks if you throw the european union against the wall it's going to explode it's taking fifty years to pull together to push together and cobble together and you could not repair it so really the stakes are really very high here and so everybody has the idea that if germany now viewers off the course if this grand coalition wouldn't come together if the government couldn't sort of. get back somehow on track and then europe would veer off course so it's really a high stakes gamble and i tell you something there will be a great song i offer relief in brussels virtual at the moment but in reality a little bit later once people have taken the resolve in however there is a second hurdle we have to keep the same mind because the basis of the party is
going to ask about this again and if we look at this majority that isn't exactly overwhelming then we know that it's not all done and. it's not all done and dusted tomo spare old correspondent vir at this. special congress most what is it like there i mean we were watching it on the monitor here and you can see the relief. you can certainly see the relief on the specially from the party leadership that they had out book a. result of getting into those formal discussions paul negotiations with. although i must say if before we could hear anything happening here before you could basically feel the silence on the tension you can also feel now the relief when you can also probably hear the music behind me this signals the end of the party conference here but certainly not the end of duties that the s.p.d.
house because they will very probably be starting in the next few days those negotiations with on. i'm a co-sponsor on the tasca that martin shows has ahead of him something that he mentioned here in his speech it's all bristly trying to improve the result of those exploratory talks that were computed a few days ago that's all just something that we hear from ralph steak now one of the deputies the exploratory talks were only talks and now they have the really difficult task of trying to get that coalition into place. and they do they have hard work i mean the margin here was was not huge so you know we can say it was close three hundred sixty two to two hundred seventy nine and melinda as you know we were saying the entire time today exploratory talks what we've heard today is they're just exploratory now they're going into the negotiations and it sounds like that means there's room for negotiation on everything again and well they've set the bar for themselves higher overnight they agreed and it essentially was to take
away some of the support from those who were urging the party members to vote no they decided overnight that there were three crucial issues involving health care involving. whether refugees catting bring family members in and involving work contracts and whether they can be on a temporary basis that they want to push harder on those three issues now you've heard a number of people here at the conference saying that our initial exploratory talks were not the real negotiations and one very popular party leadership member said we're going to be negotiating till the tires during but the fact is it's not clear that the conservatives are going to give ground on these issues at least two of the three are issues on which the chancellor said she doesn't see a lot of room for movement so what happens if they don't get concessions on those
points they still have to put this new thing to a vote once they've got a colin. tirebiter go back to their entire party basis that essentially they have now led them to have higher expectations of what can be achieved and then they perhaps might have otherwise had so i think they have just a little bit kick the can down the road and that may be one reason i saw some relief but not joy and not great enthusiasm i saw some nervousness in those faces toward the end in that we may look at this day and say this is the day that the s.p.d. painted itself into a political box to see melinda kerry thank you thomas sparrow in bonn to you as well thank you excellent coverage especially there with you know the silence in the room helping us convey that to our audience that we appreciate that almost we're going to move on now to other news turkish backed fighters have reportedly entered the northwestern syrian town of afrin of the attacks are part of an offensive on
kurdish militias that on her is calling operation all of branch turkey's military says that it has so far struck more than one hundred fifty kurdish militia targets in northern syria. mata's leave on these boys chad as a turkish time surge by them towards the syrian border. many in turkey south have been celebrating the army's offensive operation all of branch. of a speedboat the soldiers a sighting turkey from the kurdish insurgents. amongst government supporters to the mood is quite a pipe critics of president richard type to one addresses a huge rally in the country's northwest he promises that he's operation will be over soon. for a third day now turkish mortars have been running down on syria's afrin region. the army reports advances that's disputed by the kurdish militia they're fighting but
they says enough may have been a battle. militia in africa enclave of facing one of nachos largest armies and finale the cook supporters in washington the moscow looking on after backing the could see against islamic state a fact that dismays could in syria and in turkey. now as the global powers in the united nations the poet to the kurdish people because of the struggle kurds carried out against the islamic state at the end. of what. i want these attacks to stop. to the syrian operation doesn't come without risks for turkey overnight several rockets from syria landed in a turkish border city one person is being reported wounded as turkey escalates its involvement in syria the dangers to civilians on both sides of the border. yeah
this is definitely a powder keg that the world is watching we want to go now to our correspondent julie haunch she joins us now from istanbul good evening to you julia we understand that stirred his forces have crossed the border into syria and are attacking the a region what more can you tell us to die. well yes the turkish military has confirmed the ground offensive has started so tucker soldiers are moving into alongside as we hear about twenty five five thousand fighters of the so-called free syrian army that's a pro rebel group we also hear reports of turkish warplanes hitting further kurdish targets in syria and there are also reports of a rockets fired from syria that has hit a turkish border town at least one person was killed and many more injured that's what turkish media are reporting so overall turkey this weekend has started another front in the syrian war making an already very complex situation even more complex
and the language we hear from is that this is just going to be the beginning they are planning to move into another majority kurdish town called mun beach further north and the big question is what will this mean for the civilian population in the area there are a couple of hundreds of thousands of civilians inside and around affluent and for them these days are not going to be safe days yeah talk about the situation in africa in just a moment when i ask you though is there a lot of talk there in turkey about the potential conflict that we see developing here that could develop and that is you've got these turkish forces clashing with forces in northern syria that are backed by the u.s. i mean are we is it being discussed in turkey that we could have turkish and u.s. forces standing you know face to face.
well of course this is a huge topic here but you have to know there are no american soldiers inside the efren area so we will not see turkish an american soldiers actually fighting each other directly but yes this is highlights highlighting the complexity of the situation you have a nato ally turkey actually bombing kurdish forces that the u.s. considers its most important ally in their fight against the so-called islamic state group so you see this is a very messy situation ofter all in of course and this is a very huge topic and it's going to further complicate relations between the two nato partners turkey and the u.s. yeah you know it comes down to the fact that turkey and the united states have very different attitudes and opinions about kurdish groups we know the turkish president . has failed to flush out what he describes as terrorists from the kurdish enclave in northern syria why do kurdish groups why do they pose such
a threat to turkey well to keep a long story short the turkish president and the government and encourage considers the syrian kurdish groups terrorist groups with close links to the banned kurdistan workers party the p k k that has waged as a decades long fight incites turkey the serious syrian kurds are actually denying those slings you have to know that as well but anchor as especially feel fool of a so-called kurdish corydoras developing along its borders which might then inspire further separatist notions among turkey's kurdish population. the story for us tonight show you thank you very much. here are some of the other stories now that are making headlines around the world the iraqi government has condemned a german woman to death by hanging after finding her guilty of belonging to islamic state a baghdad court said the woman who is of moroccan descent had traveled to syria and
then to iraq to join the terrorist organization the taliban have claimed responsibility for a deadly twelve hour long siege on a hotel in kabul afghanistan interior ministry says at least four afghans and fourteen foreigners were killed on saturday evening at three gunmen stormed the landmark intercontinental hotel fire your guests and detonating grenades u.s. vice president might pens has met with jordan's king abdullah on a visit to jordan the two men discussed president donald trump's controversial move to declare jerusalem the capital of israel he urged tents to rebuild trust and confidence in the two state solution between the palestinians and israel. in romania demonstrators have taken to the streets to protest corruption at the highest level at the heart of the country's ruling elite there were occasional
scuffles with police as tens of thousands of people converged on the capital bucharest there were smaller demonstrations taking place across the country. it was romanians have had enough countries ranked one of the most corrupt in europe and now people are turning on the politicians tens of thousands descended on parliament many carrying giant yellow hands with the slogan all for justice. people traveled from right across the country to join the demonstration. and necessary nobody paid us to protest a simple citizens who pay taxes and we can no longer tolerate this. senseless romania has seen the biggest wave of popular dissent since the fall of communism many blame this man for bringing things to a head. his head of the main party in government the social democrats he's banned
from becoming prime minister because of a conviction for. them his party has passed legislation to decriminalize some graft offenses and push through a judicial overhaul which critics say limits judicial independence the moves haven't just drawn the people's washington and the e.u. have also been sharply critical. ok you back here in the studio now we want to go back to our top story and that is the social democrats here in germany have voted by a slim margin to start talks with negotiations with the conservatives here in germany to form yet another grand coalition government we want to talk about the pros and cons of where we're moving to next and to do that i'm joined here by melinda crane she's been with us all through the day our chief political correspondent and a lot of thoughts joins us from outside the chancellor here in berlin good evening to you is there any official reaction from the chancellor or from the c.d.u.
the c.s.u. the conservatives to what we just saw take place in bonn. good evening brant know we have not had any immediate reactions but we know that there must have been a sigh of relief also coming from the chancellor you see in the background we know that america has been watching this vote of course very closely it was also a make or break moment for her and for her conservatives they are meeting though later tonight at around seven pm berlin time to discuss how. to go ahead on these coalition talks we know that the conservatives now want to really get the ball rolling that they want to start the coalition talks as soon as possible because everybody knows that even if everything goes right from here on out that there won't be a new government in place before easter before the baby beginning of april so for sure a sigh of relief within the conservative party and they want to get things started
now and ask you to speculate here but the question has arisen whether or not the s.p.d. leadership was in contact with maybe the chance that were the c.d.u. leadership about the possibility of these negotiations having a lot of room for changing and maneuvering on on certain issues because we saw today we saw martin short saying that exploratory talks are one thing or another is it possible that mare kohl are going to michael gave schultz a lifeline today to allow him to be able to say that with certainty. i think that could be possible i mean we know that in the beginning after the exploratory talks chancellor merkel said right away look they are not going to be concessions to any of these results from the exploratory talks or shoots she took a hot stance but the mall this opposition in the social democratic party grew the
more it became clear that the c.d.u. would have to make some concessions impossible coalition talks to get the social democratic member base that is going to vote in the end behind that so we don't know what kind of concessions might might be able to make and what the conservatives could rally behind but the topics that were mentioned before employment refugee policy also health policy that definitely is room to to go a step towards the social democrats from the conservative side i would say ok and you know and i said you know. may have been throwing yourself a wife long as well right. well if in fact she has signaled to them that there is room for maneuver i am not quite sure that that would have been the case because in fact she and other members of her party have made it pretty clear this week that they view the position paper agreed on during the exploratory talks as
the real blueprint for where things are going so her science released may have been mixed with a bit of gnashing of the teeth as she heard them saying they are plan to reopen certain issue areas most of the analysis that i've seen says that there is probably some room for the two to agree on a little more flexibility on a hardship kind of provision for refugees to bring in more family members than is currently foreseen but on two of the other points those would be difficult particularly for the chancellor to open up these a v. her own sister party the very and get evidence because they tend to take a more narrow view on some items than she herself might do ok so that's one way to look at it and where do we go from here i mean we know that now we have to because you shouldn't. you know for people around the world watching this what should they
expect maybe if you can just walk us through what these talks in these negotiations one of the going to look like. well they are going to look like they have been looking like for the past month we've seen a couple of exploratory talks here first of all with the greens and the liberals and then also of course with the social democrats afterwards so basically the democrats and the conservatives are going to meet again starting next week at some point they are going to negotiate probably for a couple of weeks trying to kind of fix the results from the exploratory talks have a finalized paper in the end sometimes it was in the past the government's around sixty up to one hundred twenty pages detailing all different kinds of policy that they want to accomplish in the next four years so that'll be happening in february and then after that the social democrats will send that paper to their member base four hundred forty thousand members in total and every each and every member will
vote on that paper and in the end that could be another break or break moment for a grand coalition two point zero at this point because at that point the social democratic membership could say no we don't like these results in the end after all if though the membership says yes then we might possibly see a new german government a new stable german government say it by a social democrats and conservatives in the beginning of april so around we might see that happening with another chance. another or maybe not i mean melinda let's let's just talk about the entirety of what we're seeing right now you remember on the election day we heard time and time again that the results are going to change fundamentally the way politics is done in germany and one thing we heard is that this is. boring if you will way of legislating is about to become at least not bored i mean that's what we've heard many times we have to say
what we're seeing right now is certainly much more than just interesting i mean we today we were watching pete. all that were on every bill that was being held did inside the party congress i mean this is exciting politics is this something good for the political process in germany where you know you and i were talking when we are mikes weren't open about the level of civility at that party conference now admittedly it's within one party nonetheless one must say i found much of the tone of the debate very substantive and very civil and certainly but actually that's not such a change for germany by the fact if you compare the way that politics is discussed here to the way it's discussed at least in the official platforms and on the official stages what happens in the internet is sometimes another matter the way but the fact is there is a level of substance that perhaps might seem unusual to us coming from the u.s.
but i think one of the things that those who are frustrated with politics those to whom i spoke on the friday before election day who said they feel that the politicians don't see them here as well as you know we've heard that often in the u.s. but there are many people who feel that way here as well who say the political elite and you journalists you're part of that political or that a lot of you don't hear our concerns you don't really understand what's driving our concern for the future of ourselves but even more for our children whether they heard today in the party debate what they want to hear what they need to hear is an open question for me yet it's an open question thomas let me throw it to you what we're seeing now i mean are we seeing a fundamental change in the political process in germany and does it go
beyond the fact that it is suddenly more exciting we're setting records it's the longest time it's ever taken to form a new government etc i mean are we looking at a new animal here. well when i first came to germany many people said oh you're going to germany german politics are rather boring well i must say that i've covered many political parties i've covered many party conferences and this was certainly one of the most exciting ones you could clearly sense the tension of the delegates right here behind me and i must also say this is not the end i mean from what we've heard already from some of the party delegates who have been reacting to this result they've been reacting mostly on social media and they've been saying well this is only the beginning now the s.p.d. really has to convince the conservatives and get some success in those formal negotiations in order to be able to convince the four hundred forty thousand
members who will have the final vote the final decision from the social democrats and whether to have or not to have a grand coalition so this was certainly a very exciting day here in bonn a very important day as well not only for the social democrats but i would say also for germany and if you listen very carefully to what martin shields had to say it was also certainly an important day for the european project as well. all right joe maspero in bonn where he's been called re that s.p.v. congress force thank you very much so we are going to we've got about a minute melinda and what happens then to uncle americal i want to ask you this is she in the twilight of her career we've heard it said more going towards this vote today that i think we've we've heard since the election is the momentum for people to expect the end of the era of america is that now has it hit
a level that unstoppable well let's say on the basis of this and if they go into a grand coalition negotiations and if they succeed in building a grand coalition that is to say if their party members do in the end vote for the result then what we may see is a tapering off of the. nowra rather than a crash had this turned out differently today we might have seen a crowd or so i think but i is it's slowly coming to an end i think yesterday some people say she may only last two of four years for example melinda crane our chief live correspondent as always a pleasure and that's going to wrap up this special edition of b. w. news you know where we're headed we're headed to coalition talks here in germany i'm brant ghafar all of us here in berlin thanks for the company will be back at the top of the hour in about four minutes with more world news.
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this is. from berlin a nail biting vote with a narrow margin a decisive moment here in germany as the social democrats voting to begin coalition talks with. soon there were six hundred forty two votes three hundred sixty two people voted yes and two hundred seventy nine voted no there was one of stench and as such the s.p.d. will embark on formal coalition negotiations that the wave of formal discussions on forming a government bringing germany a step closer to ending.