tv Conflict Zone - Human Rights Wronged Deutsche Welle March 14, 2018 6:30pm-7:00pm CET
you are facing a fear tactics intimidation. and i wonder is that where we're headed as well. my research. funding is pretty god and i want to be. my guest this week on conflict is alexander downer michael of floaty rommel sure i didn't i chris bring him granddaughter raja come back she comes to me car suckers really bring him crazy she became a jew now we claim porsche since out say they make mangwana law greg could barack now bill shuster sultan kovacs martin cold blood toher sonny alfonso das this.
is a cover up and no i don't mean i don't think i don't think never i mean everyone everyone was caring. comrades and things can be seen and being seen and investigated no i don't think there is any cover up now now where you continue to deny excessive force human rights watch for example said from its own research into three cases it had no doubt at all that national force national police and civil guard officers used excessive force well you think they made that up you're talking about three cases and four people taken to hell is that is that is though at least is very three areas that they cover i mean from the loss of for instance an old woman seventy years old said she was picked up and thrown to the ground by two civil guards after refusing to move from her chair which was blocking the path to the station someone else was then. throat on top of her and her wrist broke is that
not excessive. i don't know i mean if they were prevented from. if they prevented the police from doing what they should be doing because the let's go around on top of each other a seventy year old come on i'm coming these kinds of accidents occur so i sound like an accident as well i don't think this was by any means. really you know. a sunday a bloody sunday or anything like that may not have been bloody sunday but it was hardly in the best traditions of policing was it if people are being thrown to the ground well if you if you look at the. actions of the police in many other incidents you i don't think you will be many different situation and pictures and those that you saw so i don't think and i repeat i don't think that was excessive force and you are in charge of human rights for your party let's talk about them president other one said two days ago after two days of the operation
started those who make the mistake and take the public square will pay a heavy price we will crush those who oppose us in this national struggle crush your own population. what he meant what this statement says there is no toleration and for supports for terrorism. you cannot kill a ship or you to the government more than three hundred people have already blew detained for criticizing the operation on social media there is no place for the sending voices in other words to march not that's not that's not the case you know that's not the case but. supporting terrorism is not acceptable anywhere in the world i know that's the case in the united states it wasn't the case right after september eleventh attacks which i know because i was there during those days so that is not acceptable anywhere the israeli right amazonas says that israelis were
condemned to rule over people who didn't want to be ruled by you you condemned yourself to them and i don't believe we condemned we present government and previous government for fifty years ended up. govern other people and that at least of the long gun should be corrected and we supposed to do it not just because of the moral issue of our neighbors but basically stemming out of our own needs identity security a future there but you were warned about abe and said in one thousand sixty seven your foreign minister at the time he called it a barrel of dynamite and he said we're sitting here with two populations one of them in doubt with all the civil rights and the other denied all rights this is a picture of two classes of citizens that's hard to defend even in the special context of jewish history what he was suggesting was that it was immoral wasn't it
but the patient whole occupation here in iraq i'm unfair you know the same about you ben said that israel can never allowed to come back to the borders of sixty seven which we called. bulldoze i don't believe in either we shouldn't go to extremism a lot of palestinians quoted in the media look back at the sixty seven war and describe the years since then as a half century of humiliation but a lot of it was self humiliation wasn't it palestinian disunity human rights abuses corruption violence you're going to tell me it's all israel's fault but it wasn't was it. when you can't really hit the murder you you put the blame on the murdered that's typically you have to take some of the steps ability for the violence the corruption the human rights abuses inside the
palestinian territories don't you got there are problems real human and even when we are under occupation even when we are with so many agonies caused by that occupation we have our own mistakes but the major problem is there but the minister when people lay them at your door we have the latest palestinian polls. blame for leadership only twenty five percent said the leadership is doing its best forty one percent said its role was inadequate and thirty two percent called it negligent so it's time for you to go isn't i think this is much better than i thought really there of course but you're pleased by these results but not pleased that all thirty one percent say your america it is normal when you fail to get that settler occupation off your chest when you fail to free your people at the city of jerusalem under israeli rule it's become a place of division and poverty predominantly for the arab sector in east jerusalem the part you want to buy in sixty seven and then excluding to last year's poverty
report of the national insurance institute three quarters of the residents of east jerusalem and eighty three point four percent of the children live below the poverty line that's more than fifty percent higher than the equivalent poverty rates in the rest of israel why did you let it get so bad i mean the most important to remember is that since israel unify the city not in sixty seven for the first time in the history of the city all communities have religious freedom all the religious sides of all the faiths are protected and that each religious community autonomous lee administers its own religious site so the question from your mother religious sites on the way about why that will be in the leaseholder cell who are will get to the jewish like israel will get to that in a second but one has to look at the facts this is a city that is important to millions of people around the planet yes so now my family let it sit there in the fact i think the religious sites of all faiths are for the first time autonomously administered by their own respective religious
communities that the freedom of worship is in shrine in israeli law that is something that i believe israel deserves credit for actually let it get so that i come back to this question which you don't want to know have you answered why did you let it get so bad i bought actually if you look at the situation in the arab neighborhoods of the city you'll see the. there are gaps that need to be narrowed but compare them to arabs in other parts of the middle east or even the past in turkey to see that they are considerably better than you insult the americans you say daniel money to them what do you expect them to do you are we all your people are going to suffer as a result of this outburst yet you will continue to be even though you are proud of you you will insult anyone is going to touch our rights what i say is not for money i would have taken it is not for me so you don't care with your people so you are as a result of the reason we are fighting since twenty years ago its not too new for us and we can live without the american money we can find
a way but the palestinian national dignity and rights is not for saints not for many because of that we start our assistance to try to find a peaceful solution to end the a corporation and to end this suffering for a political and show if you are jesus and the palestinians inside with bank in jerusalem and guess that mr international put it since two thousand and eleven the overwhelming majority of credible allegations of torture another serious violations by security forces have not been independently and impartially investigated is that the sort of country that you want to preside of this is not that they're going to it's not about making this stuff up mark most have lost most most of the tunisian people most of the political families in tunisia this is not the kind of country they want they want to full fledge a democratic country we are proud of the she went we have already made we are not yet a democracy to be honest we are not yet a democracy we never pretended that we are full we finished actively our promises
we have over masses we are on the path of preaching a democratic system where transparency the rule of law will be respected whatever line you tell you know full well that mr been gagged ways hostage to the brutality of the brutal record of zanu p. using your theory this period as head of central intelligence in the mid nineteen eighties coincided with the most brutal of all mugabe's massacres the so-called cuckoo or only killings in which up to twenty thousand from the in the bill each tribe were killed or disappeared was denied any role but actually the state controlled by the way a chronicle reported at the time that he compared to citizens to bugs cockroaches to reach such an epidemic the government needed to bring in d.d. as usual thing to get rid of the actual things is worse is. i hear you now give me a chance to respond to you first thing is we were in
a very limited very formative years of our country mistakes were made and that excuses massacre not even others and it doesn't excuse him one of many cities and simply say we made mistakes so that's an admission that maybe six was number one number two during that period when he was missile security he was coming to pull in to account for his actions all the time with a very robust parliament at that time and they would instantly use receipt crimes this was peaceful parking offenses for which you. pay a fine this was murder on a grand scale so let's listen to human watch and amnesty international they say that most of these eighteen and other detainees suffer told or were at least denied medical treatment that means ukraine is no better is asians are searching on these realities wow that is very good that they are certain realities and crane has never been hiding any of. the problems that we might have but
comparing a crime to russian federation a border totally tell to their own because we do know that for example right now more than one hundred forty of our. citizens are being kept on the. illegally kept on occupied territories of the east of ukraine often brass and they are not being let by russian federation to and by those puppets on the ground by those hybrid forces on the ground to be visited by for example the international red cross organization there while ukrainian on the ukrainian controlled territory government controlled territory more than thirty visits have been happening over this this period of time to those people who have violated the ukrainian law you intercept the refugees and asylum seekers at sea the tow them back to where they
came from or have them processed mainly on the pacific island of now roo or papua new guinea. the guiding principle being that people who try to ride by boat should never ever set foot in australia. if you pay a people smuggler and you try to get to australia that way and you can only get to australia by boat if you pay a people smuggler try to get to australia that way we will try to discourage that process we want to stop it we do resettle refugees we're one of very few countries that has a refugee resettlement program but we don't think it's appropriate for people to pay people smugglers and try and get to australia which a year ago it was accused of paying people smugglers itself two years. handing over words of cash and telling the people smugglers to take the. people back to try try to understand what we're trying to do here so you know we're going well i'm not
sure of the reference by the way i'm just the high commissioner amnesty international q well i'm doing very make it up i have no idea but but what i can say to you is try to understand what we're trying to do we have been. quite traumatized as a country by so. being scenes on television of spain wrecked on islands off the stroller particular christmas island off the northwest coast of australia and many people drowned hundred and hundreds of people have drowned their huge concerns about your treatment of migrants in libya in february e.u. leaders agreed to a controversial plan that stem the flow of migrants from from libya but we've seen them subject since then to massive abuse and your coast guard actually sometimes shoots at them i mean what what kind of treatment is this what kind of humanity is this from libya first of all you're putting issues that are not necessary the full facts i will tell you for example when the all the europe is talking about fighting
or combating even migration where they're coming out of their countries and their ultimate. target is to reach europe not libya we're just a passage and we're a country of conflict we're a country we're divided we have limited resources how do you expect us to deal with this flood where even europe is not able to manage it if they're not using it is that it has you don't have sufficient resources you coast guards around you know that's not your shooting that's not out of a few gee that's not true that's not true as well this is from the high commissioner for human rights know last month zaid mailers we never he never said that we were shooting he said you have a coast guard that sometimes rescue migrants this is exactly when you have a coast guard that sometimes rescues migrants in distress but sometimes chooses not to like the musicians on shore coast guards also sometimes beat rob and even shoot
the migrants they intercept this is a direct quote from him. let me tell you the facts are you saying he knows nothing no i didn't say innocent i said as we don't shoot migrants what we're doing is trying to apply our sovereign rules and regulations and by saving their lives and bringing them back this is an international agreement this is a libya agreement let's come back to the refugees hundreds of thousands of refugees from africa passing through libya every year on their way to europe in their desperation they are being exploited used even enslaved by libyan militias what are you and what have you done until now to change this tragic reality well this is really if you if you ask how i feel here i feel very fresh out of way from the trucks from every train from somalia or from other countries in asia now what are we doing here the there are several several things we are doing first of
all we are improving the situation in the detention centers these people are in the detention centers of the libyans we just make sure that there is enough space to breathe you know what authority no police nobody is listening to this government in libya in the case of the migrants let me prove you wrong please and let me civilly contradict you there is a governmental and the. immigration authority which is working they are working in twenty three of the camps we try to be with them in the cans financing the handles and we also the mystical. clear clear recommendations to the government. in order to have a recommendation general situation and yellow tees libya is were ninety percent of boats crossing the central mediterranean the g. and a took at deal with the italian government to stop the ships but the parliament
in the top broke struck it down. yes you're right this is not this is a big human tragedy and the solution is to work for the implementation of the agreement and to have unified security structures and the restitution of state authority in march last year your prime minister spoke condescendingly of flocks of obsessed human rights defenders feeling the overwhelming urge to reprimand us and make allegations against us and that's been the case for the past couple of years that you you join a club you sign up to various commitments they're going to review your progress that's that's the point of joining the club why complain about it man. i'm trying to every drink i was on them and everybody comes on the period about doing to me this discussion into some something we sent. our vision of how sick human rights how soft elements of
a corporation. law constitutional issues are going a brazen principle and if you don't like being held to account no no it's something that's not the case the think is that. human rights defend you don't we want to we want to avoid making me give you want to avoid code review we want to avoid that something and interpretation is sticking over the right sense of the word we have agreed to and that's what is happening in this case was dirty through and through wasn't it mr best look country i took at the george it was a failed country with way back you wouldn't expect to turn a failed country with no budget with not functioning institutions to turn we too early to very. brilliant success and reforms but it couldn't have been turned into absolute perfectly so that was an excuse me very very familiar as a liberal democracy that's an excuse for venting those ideas for not being but it's
just not true how do these it's our judicial system was weak and our judicial system is it worse now but your human rights record wasn't that good because you're on the time years and you know once it was it you would let it go back down on the press look you for instance of the media t.v. station that your security forces raided in two thousand and seven physically abusing journalist destroying their equipment so it went back to the earth so that's let me point out there but if you put your own car sorry you had only one of the parts in the station little side. there it well there were plenty of other speeches he made a result of my work in the region where nobody quits on their own when they had full power much more to have here i quit on my own through elections. i can prove people to as you shall have done absolutely zero interim national constitution bill of rights specifically up holds the right to freedom of expression and media and some of it is being trashed by your difficulties your trash why you are going to
have a quarter because the cost is unacceptable and this is why and this happened we are even sitting our laws after the separation of the cells to amend them so they cover as we have that have been abuses against the press we have been visiting you over by your government sometimes it happens i can tell you i'm not denying that but it is not something of that you can patent to the steering demonstrate some point during demonstrations last month for instance the committee for the protection of journalists says seven reporters had been arrested and they were released in what we have yes and it accused you of intimidation confiscating newspapers you talk about the number of free newspapers that you confiscated newspapers and you attempted to censor a new group in asia again is that many and over again is that and once it happens some would be in complicity the fear is that like every dictatorship you're scared stiff of the media and shifted that she was not on autocrats look to the government
was elected president and elected parliament you're scared stiff that if you have a free press and a critical press it's going to undermine your hold on power that's a well to that's what this is all the glass is only a press is much more critical to government than your marriage expect you to today's newspapers and so that he would have organize the same criticisms you government keep coming year demick government corruption lack of accountability for corruption and intimidation of the media which is still a big problem. i have to come back i was far years in opposition i am one hundred eighteen of these i take responsibility for what i am in. sawers we are working on a very transparent way as government every activity of our government is transparent your fully open and transparent to the media everything of our work it's an access of nightmare cases of the kids to us between january of this last
year you couldn't move was good to go i strongly condemn that no one has been held responsible i strongly condemn those that i strongly condemn the northeast from september of last year only mid september last year i started this job all relations with media our respect for our media our young media as well they have a lot to learn. just how often are before us me carol a girl it walked out of her house and got into her car for the last time she wrote in her blog there are crooks everywhere you look in the house the situation is desperate and her murder proved it didn't it that's that's the unintelligible no i don't think she was referring to the criminal gang that but i don't know what she was very interested to be honestly to be honest with you about what she had been talking about and writing about for the last two months before her for a brutal murder was the situation with the new leader of the opposition the new
leader of the opposition in the area had been criticized very vocally back i'm going to going to see over the last she criticizes english in precise your government salute yes she has a right didn't go out to the opposition notion that she's here she you're right you criticized practically everybody on the island that she had a right to do and people who feel aggrieved had the right to take her to court so this was all in all of this is absolutely not no no no you're saying that she took on you know you take statements you know you're saying that what she wrote was connected to the murder i'm saying it's not necessarily the case how do you say that they're saying what you but you're saying that there wasn't i'm saying it's not necessarily the case we have to wait and see but if you are targets along with business absolutely business class people. that they were agree they took it to court as you would do one and all the country with the rule of law. and the rule of law more than one of your own but decided it had to stop someone on this side i decided it was over there are fairly gay shit on that i'm surprised that you're doing this so understand the problem you are bringing in information to countries
which you are criticizing and you demand that these countries will react but they don't want to react they are very happy as they are i'm not going to give european bill of health the problems are serious the issues are grave but i do see small chinks of light i see small improvements i gave an example of better oversight of intelligence services here we're having valuable conversations with governments about how to put in independent oversight that's achievement i've seen refugees children locked in cages when i first went to the hotspots in greece a couple of years ago they're not in cages anymore that's an improvement to own . the o.e.m.'s.
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the last step i have now gone the first full day of the bungalow of us. thanks i'm. tired and. now unless i need a salad i'm alone or. less than the end. of the cold war. i will throw money at the level. or in the deal my i was. full of worming again i will only take gallo know what i didn't want and. what i am the man. there's the hour.