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tv   Quadriga - Putin Re-elected A Toxic Presidency  Deutsche Welle  March 23, 2018 5:30am-6:01am CET

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take it personally are you ready with wonderful people and stories that make the game so special. for all true fans. more than football online. in a very warm welcome indeed to quadriga coming to you from the heart of earlier this week our focus is on russia where the former k.g.b. agent bloody near putin has just been reelected to a fourth term in office that breakthrough though comes at a time when tensions are running high between russia and the west with the u.k. and others accusing moscow of being behind the poisoning of the former russian double agent sergei script and his daughter yulia the charge that russia has
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blasted as rubbish drivel and nonsense so who's right and will there be a further escalation of the crisis question here on quadriga this week putin reelected a toxic presidency and i've got three guests here in the studio to discuss that question beginning with the w.'s only christiane trip but a senior correspondent who has in recent years been very sort of thing in kiev and moscow christiane argues that it's wrong to demonize vladimir putin and don't please russia he's saying he's start planning for a post in russia also with us ellen posner commentator for the berlin daily devote ellen believes that putin not only poison seems enemies his army of internet trolls these points in ing the political atmosphere in the west is a piece of our lives democracy and a warm welcome to gemma perth's current a freelance journalist an expert on eastern europe germany says it's always the same reflex whatever happens it was always in moscow. about to begin with you alan
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no no no the e.u. says it shocked by quotes the first offensive use of a nerve agent in europe since world war two are you shocked alan. no i'm not i'm not shocked i'm disgusted. it's stupid to say you're shocked because this was going to happen sooner or later. because of years ago mr litvinenko another russian expire who was blows blew the whistle on mr putin was poisoned with polonium in london so that was if you will a nuclear weapon used against britain and now they've used chemical weapons against britain so no i'm not shocked i just think this this is the face of russian imperialism the face of russian prison term opposed to the leaders of the u.k. the u.s. france and germany have come out with a joint statement condemning the nerve agent attack as an assault on u.k.
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sovereignty and saying it is high and saying it is highly likely russia was behind it you say russia always gets the blame you see you don't see you seem to be down to the russia is to blame i think it's too early to judge because we didn't have any proof so far i think it's very clear that one needs to have a statement of solidarity because different from your point of view i was shocked and i think a lot of the richest people in salisbury were shocked that something like this could happen in their country and i find it quite understandable that it's a difficult situation for may you needs to react somehow but i think it would have been much better. to wait with laboring one second very few say that russia always gets the blame why it is wrote russia are always get the blame i find that there's a certain stereotype of russians as it's often said in british media and even british politicians there should be much more
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a different station between what is the kremlin what just actually if certain networks we don't know in the secret service and i think one couldn't my. shouldn't be so fast because sometimes it's very. just the country of what you want because especially because it was because before the elections i think a lot of people in the kremlin was quite happy to show that we have blamed again and to have a atmosphere which makes a lot of russians feel that we are always blamed without any proof what do you say crew i mean the russians will surely say why would we do this in an election year why would we do this at election time good question i would like to comment on what jim had just said there's another typical pattern of how moscow reacts when our things like that refer to the fate of mr litvinenko was posed with polonium some ten twelve years ago
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a look at what happened in eastern ukraine when the malaysian airliner maître seventeen was shot down killing three hundred passengers it's all and meant there's a lot of evidence that a russian made missile. the plane down and russia always reacts in the same pattern it's foreseeable it's there's nothing new in it and this happens again right now claiming that they didn't do it accusing others and refusing to accept an international expertise of the whole process there were voices from russia two days ago the deputy foreign minister which is not yet the official position of moscow of the kremlin but the deputy foreign minister said that russia will not accept what the u.n. watchdog for poisoning gases will find out they will not accept it whatever the final you christine the question was why would russia do it now why would they do it is election time why would they do it in the build up to the soccer world cup which is such
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a. showcase occasionally drop rajeevan in danger of those circuit world cup i mean we have calls from great britain boris johnson the foreign secretary who wants to boycott the for the moment and of wants to get the whole european union into a bucket but why do russians do it over speculation i mean you read in the papers but russians always unite behind their leader in a very strong in a very nationalist way when they feel being attacked or aggressed from outside from other nations why now if russia is behind this attack why if they launched it now i still i still don't understand. well you really ought to ask mr putin that or do you not but stalin once said stylin who created the organization for which mr putin worked as a as a young man for movie learned everything that you know about citing one set of eve
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on the terrible that people the only thing that people remind remember of even the terrible was he dealt with his enemies and he was feared and that's what remember of stalin and that's what putin wants to be remembered for he deals with these enemies and he is. he had by them and why do it before the election because the real reaction of the west was of course. foreseeable and he could use it on the one hand we on the one hand people who admire mr putin who say he deals with his enemies like they did with study like they did with even the terrible and people who don't agree with mr putin will come and say we're being attacked again so we vote for the strong man who supports russia it's a win win situation for him and there's no way the west can not run into that trap because either we do nothing and prove once again that we are weak or we react with strong words and say what's the truth that russia is behind this and then people
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accuse us of always singling out moscow we always single out moscow but it happens to be moscow who does all these terrible things i find this kind of the pattern of thinking very dangerous because it's very much a cold war thinking and we live in a very different world and i think maybe the next guy thinking is dangerous poisoning people is dangerous i mean that's for sure that poisoning people is dangerous but still i think it would be helpful to really to see russia not always as a continuation of the soviet union which is even if there are certain. things happening where there could be that the kremlin is behind it i wouldn't exclude us but i think it's very important also for british people that you have more in your hands than the british government head and i mean we have only now people coming in really looking into this thing and in about ten days we will know what it is about
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ok one thing we do know that we still a lot of work to do to clear up the crucial details on their time circa script one thing is clear as well is that it's reminiscent as we've already mentioned. a similar poising poisoning incident back in two thousand and six has some images. these images show sixty six year old former spice. in a supermarket just hours before he and his daughter yulia attacked him with a nerve agent nova chalk. it stirred up memories of russian agent alexander litvinenko who was murdered back in november two thousand and six team was poisoned with radioactive polonium. inquiry into his death said it was likely putin had ordered the assassination. also accuses him. it was. message very serious. this crime i don't like.
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us to understand what we have to do. is there a pattern to these attacks. christiane is there a pattern to the attacks is there a bigger scheme here a broader scheme it looks like a broader scheme and of course the evidence is that the russian state or corporate structures of the state behind it but. no i go with with we don't have the final proof there's a lot of evidence but if you carefully look at this joint declaration of the fall powers. and addressing the script case the yellow eyes the british allies they give full so the devotee to london but they don't buy the argument that the russian government is behind it what was johnson's and others claim so that you and the us they take a rather cautious stance and it took the government in london some two days to convince paris and berlin to substance to sign this paper and we haven't even
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summit now and the e.u. fall short of. a new sanctions is also very cautious and measured christiane but the fact is that if they do have a case if. putin's russia if putin was behind this then what this amounts to is surely state sponsored terrorism it is but that is no proof behind it and this always has to be seen and taken into account look there was a russian expert on chemical weapons who as proof positive that the russian state wasn't behind this if we had been behind this the man would be dead already this is the kind of cynicism we have to deal with you having been in russia and on to also know that the whole sort of k j b slash. corporate private terrorism even down to tensions operating somewhere in the south
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of russia that is the whole continuum of a continuum of power but in the end if putin wanted to stop it he could if he can't it's almost even worse so the fact is we have a russian state surrounded by terrorist agents who are. even who possibly act on their own account in but it's in order for the kremlin to have plausible deniability but the fact is when there is a power center there which employs terrorism as a matter of course against its enemies in russia and outside russia and this is what we have to deal with and and the whole point of this vagueness is to make inquiries almost impossible as you said russia denies the international conclusion
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that they shot down the malaysian airlines flight over the you a great russia to this day denies the the conclusion of all people who've ever investigated it that they killed and go there is to this day no one has pointed the finger at the real murderers of an apology. and so on and dissonance of opposition politicians in russia this is the point of russian security it's it's opaque it can't be found also i mean i'm quoting here from newsweek fourteen u.k. police and british secret service are reexamining the sudden deaths of fourteen people with connections to russia that were previously dismissed by all for its use is not true how much of a crisis is this stand between the west and russia this must be the worst crisis since the cold war. i wouldn't agree i mean one thing i have a problem with this kind of terms of the west i don't know what this would be today
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because i'm very much. a person who thinks that the cold war is over i grew up in the soviet union as a german child in the times of the soviet union and of the cold war and i think it's very good to get rid of all this terms and this understanding and really see the world differently today and i have would very much opposed the picture mr posner showed us about. russia today because it's difficult for people like. me who know russia to argue because i mean there's nothing to excuse i mean the authors cherian regime of food scene there are very strong structures but still it's a country which needs our understanding and that's way that we need to really to look into. and to difference a change in what is going on there and we don't really know who was behind this
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attack. also the killing of them tough it's not clear i don't think that it was in the interest of putin on his birthday to get. on the field and i mean we hear a lot of experts now about this chemical weapon and a lot of interpretations but i would really think we should wait for the facts and if it's the way mr posner stance then then then then we need to wrecked. just because we might we've mentioned the boris nemtsov killing our g.w. colleagues john and them the daughter of boris nemtsov actually spoke to the british foreign minister boris johnson boats this group of tarc let's listen now to want he had to say boris johnson and then a comment from vladimir putin then we will come to your question i promise after putin. you also have to consider that.
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the guy that they attempted to assassinate is somebody who's been identified as a target for liquidation and that i'm glad to be a putin has himself said that traitors i.e. defectors such as misc repro. should be poisoned so it's. a russian only nerve agent we feel there's a huge were destroyed our chemical weapons under the supervision of an international watchdog we were the first to do it with our partners also promised to keep their promise which it works is you need to. know we have boris johnson there indicating that he believes the vladimir putin does alter the killing of traitors and defectors as he sees the actual language that he's approached supposed to have used traitors will kick the bucket he says this doesn't sound like the kind of man that one can reason with christiane so the british
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government now is investigating a reinvestigated fourteen investigating fourteen cases unsolved cases of that russians in london but i think we have to ask why the script a case now came as such a wake up call some of these cases are nearly twenty years old why didn't the british government pay attention to these cases before and you know where you know we have to see that this is an ailing government a government under immense pressure has to deal with bracks it and can't cope with bracks it obviously no one can and now they are. make russia a scapegoat this is i mean politically speaking this is obviously the opposite claim to know the opposite is true i'm sorry because the the point is these cases were not identified investigated fully beforehand because russian. money is so important in london and i did go through places like. knightsbridge
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chelsea and so on every second house belongs to some russian oligarch and some so there were you know really is the send of money from russia and i think that's the main reason why his to britain has been rather lax in the ghost city now finally says it's a wake up call now find these cases of being investigated not because britain is in the middle of bricks it but because the finally they're waking up to the fact. that they have been too dependent on russian money as germany for instance is dependent on russian gas we've all been much too negligent with regards to this imperialist power but do you really expect the british government to address this question of dirty of long of russian money and to cut back some some of it well i think this might finally happen now yes and also there is still the question how do you deal
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with russia no i think one needs still to think i mean because we saw it there was a big victory of foot you know and we will live with putin for the next six years and so there are many more. into we have i think we still need a common policy on this. where we can't only focus on incidents like this but you need also to develop a certain strategy absolutely being cautious i think we agreed on this and to to to see certain dangers which rich are in. government but but still i think with this very black and white picture we are not prepared enough to have a black line while they said because black and white picture would paint us as purely white but it is a black picture when it comes to putin's imperialism and is not the whole of russia
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and well not all policies that you know you just said he had enormous victory or seventy percent i mean it's like it's not quite soviet you know style that would be ninety nine point nine nine percent but it's huge and it's huge because he didn't have any real opposition took you know we agree on this i mean. ok so so what i'm saying is this is an author of authoritarian government which for at least ten years has been constantly aggressive against the west and. think of georgia think of the ukraine think of syria and think of these attacks in that think of the fact that russia supports every right wing extremist party in europe the s.p. freedom party in austria which is not in government control it's a defense and foreign ministry is a client of moscow jobbik a fascist party and russia is a client of moscow the new fascist party in italy is
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a client of most of the foreign minister not in in france is a client of moscow's and the f.t. in germany the right wing party has excellent relationships with moscow now come on how much more has to happen before we say. we may not be white but they're definitely black so one question is how long we have to do and to live with mr putin there was it a tweet of one of the the editors of the russia state propaganda news so-called news outlets and she indicated that mr putin might serve as lifetime president for russia so russia following the chinese example but what i want to do the question i want to raise is there's no scenario in russia of how to hand over power to a successor there's no success of real looking from too far into the future christiane i mean let's begin now with those of their you know i want to go back to the soccer world cup because it is a major global event and i my guess is that bloody putin is going to go on
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a charm offensive in the next couple of months ahead of that event he's going to come talking of western doors how should the west germans not happy with the term itself but how should the west if we want to use that term respond of course that the west has to open the door and for example try to improve the situation on the ground in the ukraine this is i think the only way and get a bit further in this completely stalled peace process there and there is a window of opportunity in international politics right now because mr putin wants the stoneham and he wants to be the host of many nations and wonder poisoned former spy becomes a footnote of history. no not a footnote of history but in a way out politics what else shall western leaders do with the now trying to grasp that chance if it's there and. start seriously read need goshi ating what is on the table between russia and us is not realistic i don't think that's realistic and i
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think we shouldn't play it has in its cards because that's really do you do with this like most opposed to has and also if we look at the british russian relations now we have twenty three deployments and out there and there and played. i was very sad to hear that the british council will be closed which is so important institution for a lot of people in the civil society and russia and also the football match will be a unique opportunity of people to meets to travel to russia to see that it's very different from the stereotypes just opposed presenting to mr posner is going to be very impatient as well. you know people travel to russia they won't see the real russia this is they didn't when they came to nine hundred thirty six to the big games in in berlin and if necessary everything was produced up and you won't see the secret police of course and so come on the idea that by visiting each other you
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get to understand each of the peoples blah blah blah blah that look russia you know is going to spin on it's going to understand what i'm thinking my only you are comparing the nine hundred thirty six olympic games the way hitler used and abused that sporting tournament you are comparing it with the way the flooding there putin will use promoting the soccer world cup and absolutely i'm not going to call him right into the boris johnson line of i'm not buying into any line and i'm not comparing putin with mr hitler for several reasons but i'm what i'm saying is the sporting events are used for propaganda reasons i'm giving one example which we know sitting here in berlin where that happened in ninety's i do six and we all know the soccer world organization is incredibly corrupt there's lots of scandals i mean the the tournament in qatar is is a scandal and the tournament in russia was and i don't know who bought it but it's time to buy out of that and say we're not going to reward or thora tarion regimes
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or rich arab sites or what ever we tournament's like this one and for all let's stop this we're running out of time christiane your comment in response respect wrong way i mean there is some blah blah blah and there is some mythology about how fruitful such an event can be for politics but if you give up. chances like that i mean what world we live in many iron curtain separating nations from nations what to do with china no mall business with china i mean they're not talking about business let's study business in general. it's beautiful exchange a few things. not a final comment i think we conned paying into the worlds and an end in the cosmos we look like we need to live with politicians we have with countries we have and this is really difficult i mean i think we agree on a lot of more things than what we heard today because i wouldn't live to portray
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these are all the government. but i would like to have a really sick for approach ok we're going to go back to my putin reelected a toxic presidency that's been a question this week thanks very much for joining us fight on.
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this is you got me is coming to you live from but end of the right to our correspondent news in central istanbul i'm joined by the show a couple of you know others political correspondent on those stories in just a minute but first this news just in it's all about the perspective closer to w. c s i'm. fighting toxic waste from moscow arena and have fellow protesters are on a mission. six thousand tons of refuse a day are transported to climb now from the russian capital with no sign of proper disposal. the activists are concerned for the health of their children and they're willing to pay the price of fixing the. fighting growing garbage heap in russia. riffle itself on d w. o.
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and the fact that the rapid movement. of the west that. now comes first but i don't actually go up. i. was. going to have sorry. i know i'm a problem. i'm a cold. war my i was. well aware. what am.
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i like this. u.s. president donald trump has announced that the former u.s. ambassador to the u.n. john bolton will replace mcmaster as national security advisor next month president trump made the announcement via twitter mcmasters departure was a mutual decision and according to one white house official. china has unveiled a list of tariffs it's considering placing on u.s. goods including paulk apples and steel pipes the move comes just hours.


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