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tv   Quadriga - Macron Or Merkel Whos Leading Europe  Deutsche Welle  April 26, 2018 11:30pm-12:01am CEST

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and steered by courageous decisions we must be. secure starting may thirteenth on d w. a lot of very welcome indeed to employ very good coming to you from the hearts of now for many years until a mouthful has been the key figure in european politics the european leaders some commentators have even told her the leader of the free world but there's a new contender for the leadership role french president tomorrow macross has just completed a state visit to washington the first foreign visitor to receive such an honest since donald trump took office and he rocked congress with
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a speech in which he defiantly challenge president trump's position on climate change free trade and the iran nuclear deal so is mccraw about to eclipse angela merkel both in europe and internationally. oh medical who's leading europe that's a question on quadriga this week and to discuss that question i'm joined here in the studio by matthew carney chief europe correspondent for politico matthew argues that mccrone wants to lead europe but calm while medical could lead europe but we're. also with us is puzzle do she is both an old journalist for the french magazine the point and she argues that i'm going to medical used to be cold the queen of europe now in matter of mcconnell seems to be the new king from the woman who to trust again knowing who's based here in berlin reporting for the zoo dudgeon sayto who she says is in germany's interest to support france not just in its efforts to reform europe but also in transatlantic reach thank you all three for
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being here with me today here on whether you must let let's begin with you just given you know i've just pointed out that your quotes at the top of the show says that emanuel mccrone wants to lead but calm yeah i think we don't that quote from you before this address that he gave to congress if you changed your mind since you heard the address no no no i haven't i think the problem that he has is that france is just not strong enough alone to take a leadership role in europe to take the kind of steps in europe that he really wants to pursue i mean he has the image he has the energy certainly but without a strong endorsement from germany it's going to be impossible for him to take things forward and i think this is the real frustration in france now that they're not getting enough support in paris from the germans and it's really not clear whether that's going to change and at the moment it looks like you know the time is just running out in on these really crucial issues involving the eurozone reforms
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and the steps that they want to take to integrate the eurozone more and to make it a crisis proof as they say every step is so controversial in germany that it's very hard to see how europe is going to take this great leap forward that. micron's been talking about ok let's talk about the tug of war between france and germany shortly kodos let's just bring you in and get an impression you are you're a french representative here on the panel today what so what was your first impressions of this this all day shift address from your president and in washington where i think a lot of people were quite critical in france is this president who's sort of dancing around with these controversial and difficult american presidents and i think the talk in the congress has changed the view a little bit because he was critical if you dressed difficult points and he's not simply the puppets of don't know trump and so it's changed the balance and
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and added credibility to my corn farms interestingness coast yeah but what you know it proved actually what you know and the american has been in the leadership now for tonight if yes that's true but she has never been a good speaker so it and given that michael has really it's talent to try to give speeches that are really going around divert like actually like obama was able to be it was reminiscent of what you see or use the word or actually exactly that that what came into my mind to obama could and blessed by robots and also my kong and that and my call is very spontaneous are going in the dialectic way so i mean so he can say on the one hand i i. my partner and a transatlantic relationship but i'm on the other hand very quickly critical so when you say he's really is you you know he's operating in a dialectic where you mean he's being very cunning yeah exactly that's what. i want to say and now i mean your staff for three days and now it's coming for three hours
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and you see already two different but. to balance that a bit i would say and what i said also in my in my statement of course after winning the election in france. was. kind of leader of your already because here he made sure that your view not take be taken over by the by le pen and others from day have formed a wide spectrum and everybody also in germany was very happy but you saw already at this time that interim leader was this electoral campaign and it was not really a big big want to a european idea as it was not and now we have to tap to and equalization to be a good first chapter is about europe but the man who necco she added that chapter into the coalition treaty of mr schwartz a former s.p.d. leader right now he is tired let's say we're tired he's not there anymore and nobody is actually taking an hour to step to put it into reality i mean
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my call is for the moment he is in the. leading position for your ok we'll go already mentioned off a very public shows of warmth and affection for president trump in the first part of his visit to washington emanuel mccrone delivered a remarkable speech in congress or in the address he spoke without his vision of global leadership challenging many of donald trump's positions not least his determination to put america first and shine internationalism let's listen and we can choose isolationism withdrawal and nationalism this is an option it can be tempting to us as a temporary remember if to all fields but closing the door to the word will not stop the evolution of the word it will not dollars but inflame the fruits of our
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citizens we have to keep our eyes wide open to the new risks right in front of us. was it dialectic was it coming i don't know what i mean my question is because that was it was it a deliberate strategy you know did he first of all give. it to the american president and then start him in the bank now first he's building a bridge and then you know i let's put that picture i would prefer the picture that mccaw is building a bridge to or towards a tram and then he invites him to go to come over to put and now it's up to tom whether you would like to do that or not i mean he was very clear mccall in his speech saying that he tried to atlantic partnership it's a very big issue and strode today like it is but as he said we have to open our eyes widely and we have. to work together not against each other i mean this was.
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i think i was i'm going to be what it is that i think he was addressing two different audiences with the speech and with his treatment of trump and the sort of the padding and the hugging of trump he was obviously trying to reach trump and that probably didn't play as as well back home but i think i made my son mentioned it was well i think there was a bit there was a little bit of a. you know cut if you will between his treatment of trump and the pictures and the speech i mean the speech was you know in parts was was was fairly harsh but i think that the speech was more directed at his home audience and so that he didn't lose credibility with them but he doesn't look like you know trump's towel boy that he's just standing there being being you know nice to him and and grinning along with everything that he does and i think that it's a it's a difficult it's difficult trick to to pull off and he seems to a political that i think you know the proof is in the pudding is as they say and we'll see what trump does in the coming weeks because all of this will only matter
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if trump does what europeans want him to do which is to not impose the plant steel tariffs and to to to not withdraw from the iran deal and at this point it's very questionable that that he will will toe that line by just a one second at this peace speech one second only and your question off his t.v. show actually called the leader and him i mean he was the first person that spoke there in washington gave that speech has and i think that on to the question it's have actually been to my call now stress and to us we're going to lose me in the next what is it a no two bit was it if you're destruction yeah let's go think he's very clever because it's difficult recently so eager money and complicated like donald trump you know when he was elected the whole western world went horrible and i mean you're not going to get him in to lead you to your boats and if you just show you know hora. so first invited into pies last year to the fourteenth of july
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celebration and reminded you know the stong hoed since the war but i mean the strong tradition and the history we have in common and now he's playing these yeah which is resourceful comes very good in america all these pomp and circumstances and it's ominous it's know there's nothing bad about it and i think it's it's probably clever and better than mrs merkel who immediately after the election went as a as a protestant you know the daughter of pasta and started saying you know you have to respect democracy and of course you know trump was immediately restoring and he's going to be difficult for. me was he played the child i mean the bar is now very high for him and i think it is better to be soft and charming with such people then to for the raise the moral thing on the left in her eye to the wall softer him i mean she can do much better and much more partisan antic i mean you know what we
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all know is that angle america can be an incredibly charming and winning individual we know this you know i mean it's often must but it's your let's try and i know for many people i did silence when i was a much older like like trump for a woman like me is a woman she's not there truck to even she's not very young and she's not even yeah exactly i think you know beyond these you know the sort of superficial qualities which you know i wouldn't i wouldn't doubt that plays a role in trump's mind there's also the fact that she is also the representative of the refugee policy in europe as you know which is trump's you know main domestic issue is the danger of his life on the danger of of of letting in refugees and so forth so i think she's also a symbol for trump and so is it just for that reason alone is very difficult for him i think to have a good relationship with her because it would force him to disavow some of his core positions we're talking about relationships you could argue that in my view on
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micro is really the only european leader who has so far made an impression on donald trump the two men speak of each other as buddies and commentators have been calling it a bromance but just how far does the friendship go. it was the first meeting in may of twenty seventeen was that a handshake or over wrestling match by the way mccall seemed to have won over the unpredictable trump. later mccall invited the american president to be guest of honor at the busty de military parade with all the pomp and circumstance trumps craves. arriving in washington d.c. macaws stepped up the flattery with a symbolic gift from a french forest where involve all one's american and french troops have fought the germans side by side. it's a rather touchy feely brogue. and trouble is
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that a male friendship with political benefits. because there are no trumping mccraw we've got thirty years apart we've got an intellectual got a t.v. junkie on the other so good an internationalist in isolation is what is the glue between the two explain it to us i mean and if you as you have could see that i depict as they like to play to each other with the receipt other bit it's always as a small talk and the clue i think is that both what actually likes to call and what they also said both they are both outside us not coming from guest have lisha mental so it came into power by by an ex already now except consent first. and. they are both safe made man like tom always underlined on his own. and came from bank. position
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and they are both very powerful but they are both in bottles at this point it's not a must but i saw i saw one very recent survey about the level of dissatisfaction with the amount of oil mccraw in fronts at the moment it has now reached fifty eight percent according to one poll and we're sitting here talking about him as a prospective sort of european or global leader where i think the french when they're dissatisfied when they're not dissatisfied with his foreign policy or with his trip to america they're dissatisfied because he's trying to change france and to reform and we have these strikes the train strikes and the student strikes and and the employee strikes i mean this is you know this is an inherent problem in france it's a country which is very very difficult to reform it's attached to privileges it's attached to tradition and he's very very he said he would do it he's doing it and i think he's very brave because you really break east he's doing that and you have not really big strikes i mean i saw already years ago really huge strikes in france
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and now what we see now it's really much more i would say i was surprised by. it's interesting matthew that you mention that france is again talking about relatively influence of medical and mccrone of the relatively influence of france and germany you said that france is a smallish country on the on the global stage but france has three things that germany doesn't have it has a permanent seat on the un security council it has a nuclear arsenal and it has the capacity to take part in strikes as it did very recently against chemical weapons targets and in syria that's a very different back a bright and i think the third point is really is really important just sort of the military capability of france writ large is something that germany doesn't have and in terms of potential u.s. partners for trump at the moment france is actually has a greater capability even even in the u.k. where the military has you know very very various issues. and you know the reality
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is that france has shown a willingness to engage in very difficult and dangerous military operations and that's something that that trump and that the military brass in in washington value and take very seriously so i think this is another you know very important bargaining chip that that france has views of united states at the moment is something that merkel can't really offer and the contrary actually event germany event it comes to germany in washington i've been down recently i mean for many people in the u.s. administration germany is a kind of an enemy like china boycotting economic germany it is an enemy like to try and off i have to kind off of course testes as a plus in the end to try badlands and has already showing up and talking about trade and economy a stuff like that and if it comes to two things like foreign policies or germany's often say ok just do it and good luck but we are not involved in it and that's also
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a big problem and what they see in washington and what makes it more difficult for america to get. along this this trial so it did it didn't help her case i think when when she arrives in washington that germany didn't participate in the air strike in syria. well against this backdrop what about the european project which many commentary to say is in danger of falling apart that's why in one of them across servant lee believes that france and germany must work closely together to come up with fundamental reforms will it happen though well when the french and the german leaders met here in berlin recently the messages were distinctly mixed. the wanted to was anything but romantic it made a potent flamenco took him on in the car to the construction site of the homework for him in berlin deliberately chosen to stand for europe as a construction site. not call it already presented his architectural vision months
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before a sovereign crisis proved you with common foreign defense and financial policies now he's awaiting merkel's response. possible i don't think it's a matter of are talking about one or the other instrument but of our being certain what objective we hope to achieve of our having one and the same political goal. if not of course the positions of france and germany always have different starting points i know we need to bring it and we need open debate and the ability to compromise in the end it complements. america's pragmatism and because vision directed at the same goal. the question do france and germany proscar have the same goal. on certain subjects yes i think on europe on the whole yes of course and it's very it's very clear for the drums as well how these french german mater is important and the germs and says it's i mean they know very well that in this difficult world in turmoil europe is very important but michael has
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made some very precise propositions and and on the finance you know the european budget the european financial minister and and they are the germans are i think the majority of the drums especially in the party of onto the method and it exists but. the conservatives there are very many many a lot of apprehension and a lot of people don't want that at all and so it's very difficult for michael because on the on the one hundred see interesting on the one hand he's election was a triumph in germany everybody loved him because he's young he's clever he went through these very good a little bit early to have french system he can talk and i mean they're absolutely you know they're in love with him as the obama phenomenon it is the obama even yeah exactly maybe more because it comes from yeah anyway and then he makes proposals
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which the germans are very suspect about and they don't want to go as far as that it's too dangerous for the drums and merkel is again like in the in you know in the in the defense policy she is tied by parliament which is you know the french president has a lot of power he can decide everything on his own sense you know. raids on syria and the site above the european policy more or less on his own but the dumb const law it's a sign of democracy has to last the parliament and the bottom of this is not going to say yes to a european budget and to a european financial ok muffie what is going to happen next. it's not a very well if you want to let it go it's slightly disagree with you i think that americans should you know could show more leadership you could show more courage and really say we need to do this we need to do this this is important and here is why that is what has been missing in this debate as you say the germans really liked my call just like they like europe they like both in the abstract but when you get down to the details that's where it gets very complicated when you start
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talking about measures that might force germany to pay more of put more german resources at risk then all of a sudden you know the stop sign start going up and i think this is been due to big frustration for the for the french and these discussions and the problem is is that the time is running out and at the e.u. level in the coming months there's sort of a mountain of things that need to get done from selecting a new e.c.b. president selecting a new commission president electing a new council president and so forth your bottom new parliament to completing the budget they haven't even succeeded in completing them to the next budget under the current european commission and it doesn't look like they're going to so it's very difficult to see how this might call merkel dialogue is going to result in this great leap forward that we've been hearing about from call for the past couple of months how's this also got something to do with the fact that micro is the is the new kid on the block effectively he's turned to angela methley says i need your help and and she i think it has more to do she suddenly looks like
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a spender knowing that she looks more to do that she's just unwilling to engage in this debate because she doesn't she knows i didn't i would know it for her own people from her own people not much and i made the mistake of not putting it at the top of the agenda in the election campaign it's at the top of the coalition agreement but in very vague language. but they did not put it out there during the campaign and say this is what we're going to do in europe this is why we need to do it to explain to people and then they would have had a mandate they don't really have a popular mandate to do anything major in europe at the moment i would sadly disagree of because of course it was not an issue in the airplane electra and it term election campaign and it was really a missing point that that's true but actually america is now in her fourth term and everybody sings and i think including her stance to find a term so actually dead could could lead to a more freedom and liberty she should feel free to just to engage and to try to to put our because things and not only sinking in the small stuff and i would
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doubt that she's done drilling to do so i would really doubt that she's not drilling to go further and you're of this my calm but. dissing is she's not fighting for that and she does not have to support of her own party and i mean ok and then you can ask ok if she's not fighting to cannot have to support so at a certain point she sort starts fighting she should go out and give a speech you know like actually if you talk to people in the cons them cancel and ask them so what is the difference between my call and mother so they say slightly and. smiling is a smiling face the difference is that my kong gave speeches and america did not get gave a speech so please i think she should feel free to go to university or somewhere and to give a big speech about europe and what she wants to do in europe because what we are missing still is hope proposals for your i mean my kong came out and everybody's
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discussing this my comp opposes and everybody now. looking forward to germany could go its mark all along but why doesn't come germany out of his own proposed. speech is difficult for merkel yes i should try asking the ranji crisis you know this formula of the shots and those will man. but the speech difficult she can do that and that's ok some of the style but she could but she was a good margins on all those yeah in fact and and fights that's true. things she really european i mean she didn't she was great if you are european i think she is but she grew up in the europe she grew up in east germany she grew up she didn't she didn't grow up like mccall who as a child you know was fourteen so he's never known anything else than europe and you know traveling. something that i mean it's a very it's an emotional thing but it sits in the in the bones something like that to go two years ago. or two years ok i want to do that the time for speech is
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probably passed at this point and that's i think the challenge that she has it is not even a question we have been addressing today most america who is leading in europe who who is sitting on the front seat of the famous two hundred custom for the moment sitting down and germany are wise to follow him to sit next to him. yeah i agree with that germany has we've the french have waited six seven months now but germany to. take the take the real and and and and now it's time now for the time to i don't think it really is a ten and i think that that michael is sitting there trying to pull along in america this is dragging your feet and then this is this is the huge this is the huge problem and it's probably not going to change but it thanks so much will through these opinions and a great debater i hope the tomtom doesn't get a flat tire on that note thanks very much for joining us sir come back next week to quadriga just by by
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