tv Conflict Zone - Guest Gyorgy Schopflin Deutsche Welle May 2, 2018 11:30pm-12:01am CEST
st century was designed. he has called turkish president bridge of type our downfall and enemy pressed. world press freedom day may third on t w. this week conflict zone is indeed a strong capital to lead to meet george shipley in who sits in the european parliament for hunger is governing feed this party on april eighth prime minister viktor orban was reelected using rhetoric described as intimidating phobic will that kind of nationalist vision decide the future of europe.
structure please welcome to conflicts in your prime minister viktor orban was just reelected with third consecutive term the organization for security and cooperation always c e said the opposition did not really have a chance to compete. yes well it's true that all tests don't have a chance the have actually got i forgotten exactly how many votes but they have equal crespo to two million votes for score two point seven me that there is competition and besides they have to say things like that that's their job why the criticism is not their job the only see is is a neutral organization and they very well respected the report said code
intimidating and center for big rhetoric media bias and apart compay defied dancing and of the quote hidden the voters ability to make an informed choice this was not a fair election was it i think it was a very fair election for the whole of the campaign i didn't see intimidation and i wasn't just sitting in budapest a regular subject but a lot of it. there is no such thing as objectivity i don't believe in fairy tales either. do you think that the r.c. is objective no do you think that anybody is objective do you think that even it is not subjective the issue is c.e. said these elections were not fair hungary is member which means that you accept the standards of this organisation do you accept the standards of this organization we do accept the standard and i think that got it wrong but if you
accept the stand this means that you have to accept also their criticism seriously . because them seriously i think all with resumes were interpretation comes into the picture i think they came along as usual with a certain set of ideas about how hungry is that they get there from the western media the west immediately salute to the opposition so the can all the greys of interpretation it's ok be used to them but this is not really an answer the head of the observer mission douglas wake said there was. perceptor vase of overlap between state and ruling party resources which undermined the ability of a position candidates to compete equally having democratic elections mean not tilting the scales look the carriers are always tilted to some degree depending on what the population the voters really want. come all this knowledge are cynical for democrats i don't think it's cynical they think it's realistic i mean think about
it a cynical to be cynical is realistic not invariably i mean you know what would cynical leaders dog like behavior i don't think i'm a dog is morality something in politics well that in political bristly linked and obviously equally obviously morality is something that must always open to question otherwise you get into what is new and in the trader's monism a single concept of morality which is anti democratic purposes of union but let's speak about the free press this is constitutional for democrats for their moccasin . journalists were pressured state broadcaster biased in government messages complains overlap with your party's that what you call fair the freedom of press i would not call that but then that's only one opinion of how things are really hungry if you look at the entire picture of the media there's enormous diversity the trouble is you see that other than hunger is nobody in the area so they can't
do a proper content analysis of what is actually over the country to understand if the standards of free press are given on not well i think it really helps if you actually do knew something about but ultra tone and this is a really problem judge about certain scales and standards i think there is a real problem i read what happens. but i don't really know because i have to take the word of the the journalists. interpreters who tell me and they have a bias they're not objective. let's talk about migration because this was the overwhelming campaign issue during the campaign sorry prime minister often says quote we do not consider these people as muslim refugees we consider them muslim in vegas do you agree. i think you city caloric migrant.
he does the has said in the past i was present when he said that there are three types of people coming to europe there are genuine political refugees asylum seekers there are economic migrants and there are fighters when and i'm speaking about invaders this is the world i would agree that there are muslim invaders. it depends on how you define the invasion if you defy you vision in this instance of peaceful invasion that i think is clearly the case very large numbers of people arrived in hungary without so much as by a leave in twenty fifteen march through the country this was traumatic you know what invaders means there is a connotation with the word this is hate speech if you say muslim invaders this is hate speech isn't it no i don't think it is so what is hate speak well that's the muslims the muslims generalization invaders we know how these pictures are
used everybody each other allies is you generalize aijalon generalize if i speak about groups especially religious groups i'm sorry so much your prime minister generalized not only saying the muslims but he's also adding invaders what a picture you know what this means. i think violence i think what you mean the isn't necessarily the same as what all about means and secondly of course the collective it is a we made generalized judgements about religious groups just as much as secular ones invaders means aggression you have a lot of potential of threatening people do you believe that the muslim groups as he said are invaders what i saw in twenty fifteen when i was there. was structural violence something against which nothing could be done it was
a flood of people who were paying attention to what they were doing if you want to call the supervision you can call it invasion you could also call it a tie and you can use all sorts of a little spoke speak about refugees migrants he said muslim yes i think that the greeks which already is not one hundred percent to some christians they were overwhelmingly. i'm your member of the parliament article twenty one of the european charter clearly states code any discrimination based on any grounds such as religion or belief shall be prohibited muslim invaders if that is not a religious discrimination then what is it if you're quoting rich ultra fundamental rights fine please recall article one which is about human dignity and here the human dignity of the hungarian population is every bit as important as that of the muslim but we all agree do you believe that in hungary this is today's reality muslim invaders millions could come to our very our in our agree and want
to suppress your people is there a feeling about hungary i understand you have to see to the european context possibly a clue will context the question of large numbers of people in the world are on the move hungary i think experienced this profound shock twenty fifteen. and the other a lot at this particular time very large numbers of dross of muslims were not very many in hungary what the great majority of hungary's do not want to pull pulling figures to back this up is that there should be a lot of witnesses serving fair enough but we are now in twenty eight years and the squads are also partly coming from b a lexington paid twenty eighteen so what's about today you still believe that there could be a muslim invasion in your country i think i wouldn't use the word invasion which is
the one that you're in love with no it's your prime minister who isn't allowed you keep result you keep quoting if they want to take away our country who exactly who exactly mr serve in wants to take away your country i think the very large number of refugees who may potentially want to settle in hungary aided and abetted by western liberals. and they want to take away your country they want to transform the country in such a way that it's no longer recognizable to the great majority of people who live there at this time rightly or wrongly on one hand your prime minister always said nobody of these refugees wants to stay in hungry they want to go to germany on the other hand you're telling your people that every muslim wants to stay in hungary i don't understand the logical argumentation do think we're seeing every muslim sadat i mean for the last ones to take away our country this is a quantity this is
a certain quantity with the exactly how many but we really do want to find out. you proposed you propose first putting pig heads on the border fences to deter us yes i did i did tweet this quite right what was the idea behind that well it all began with some picture of i think mosques which i saw as being up at your page. i said well why stay with mosques why not put up pictures that this was criticized to be racist and degrading idea. was it racist i do think it is i think it looking at the way in which for islam. pork pigs are all acceptable. a form of pollution and therefore to see to them look if you come
to hungary you will find that people eat pig people eat pork in hungary we have bill back do you respect islam religion do respect will respect this religion i little what you mean by respect of course it exists this religion. as respectable as christianity or jew is. i have some problems with. this islamic theological doubt anyone that christianity is respected. i would like to see your christianity is respected i think that's right you can know that for example your idea with the pick heads is also racist any degrading idea for jim i was fully aware of so was it also a message to the jews because it was not clear to assume the message was given. i think it was clear in the contra submitted it was about that on the fence and it was facing. migrants coming towards hungary i think is very clear i have
said elsewhere that one of the responsibilities of the present government in hungary is to protect the third largest jewish community this is a rude rude yeah i think to express a no four cultivate person as you are to use pigs you know what this means for people who are jews or muslims or don't you know i have an idea you know or you have an idea i have a fairly good idea or were some would not take it quite as seriously as you are at this point looking over as you have to decide to do it it's one thing but how seriously it is taken this is also something you know or you are suddenly very naive not though you have started to look at them nic i'm simply saying the subjective perception of a film will always very i have no idea how. religious
jew would respond you have no idea i have no idea because they vary among themselves some i know that this is not a religious attempt only it is also a principle a tent for jew of for and muslim principle take care. nazis anti-semitic people are throwing pick cats. at the synagogue to describe their disrespect now it's offense not to go hungry not in hungry there is no at a summit has been hungry very little very little are you really sure what the surveys tell me that's what the reality is not telling me the word jewish congress for example was very clear on that that not only hungry and your government has a problem with muslims but also with jews i think you would use congress. in this respect nobody is in error this is the first government of hungary. the second or
one government which recognized that hungary was responsible in part for the holocaust does that mean that you learned something in the present time well this is a very real and i think the various jewish communities isn't a single jewish community not very accepted this regarded it as positive i was there at that particular occasion there's no question in my mind. you will find individuals around to say look let's talk a little bit and to submit isn't all the alleged and to some it is more of the competitive of your prime minister i would like to talk about in a guy or an ex george soros it was almost as if in the most recent election a prime minister was running against him he compared soros to the invading armies of the turks obviates and hobbes books rola saying soros allies in hungary would face revenge revenge what and why so much the translators have let your
word isn't revenge it's a men's league theatre is the hungary and would always believe what the journalists us for sources could i think this is a super billick through trap set by the fetus basically in effect making sure the symbolically is really open. which means that the bulk of one period of us will not vote for him. open or so promise to send service quote home even though they have their inborn finance he has not been in the country for years what deep alben mean sending home this is a symbolic schorsch not the real individual it's a symbolic one as i don't know we have individual sport what the symbolic soros is a symbol. for or individuals for whom sure symbolizes one liberalism or of a particular kind certainly visceral opposition to feed there's visceral opposition
to all ban it's a part of and mostly pigs were sent home they hadn't been sent home it was a simply i think part of a campaign rhetoric i do think anybody will be sent home but as you probably knew society is currently thinking about moving to berlin i thought that in the market is oppositions are not sent home they are part of but a lot of the debate around ceasar us and his influence has descended into lines of argument about quote international finance which is a code word used by enter somites you remember also by the nazis this is soros is jewish victor alben who is a very intelligent man who we agree with you must know which flames he was feigning when he played with anti semitic stereotypes or at least compay i do see it isn't a semitic he can give it reading but i think it was much more about the finance i'm sure as you know has actually been finding in france for his speculation
a million pounds of the bank of england british tax mr obama is also not a very nice a socialist person he loves to make businesses but this what you're telling us is is years ago we are today why does he play. with the international finance picture you can scrub history and timely rule made over the past you would be included merely because this is happened fifteen twenty years ago doesn't mean that it lacks a reality to the dollars look under as heisler the chairman of the hunger in jewish federations called on mr orban to end the campaign using the ceasars picture the organization said it was a proxy for anti-semitism. there i can understand it has they would want to see this because of course he is in touch with the world jewish congress and so on and they are concerned but it seems to me that there's
a real danger of anti semitism in countries where there's a large muslim minority not in hungary do you know do you remember being an economic and historian that and to some it is a existed also in east europe and if fifty four refugees came three years ago do you remember that also in your country before they came you had problems i wanted only to add that to your comment because it looks like there are lines and some it is my of today the addison it is most muslims alone can i on service please i was there when the holocaust took place i was four years old i remember seeing people with yellow stars i bottomed old enough to watch the trees pulling out of the brick factory for sure it's of course i knew i knew all this i worked on this but at the same time i do not believe that everything can be written down as anti semitism there are different interpretations and the way in which the campaign was wrong
would certainly has certainly been seen as anticipated by various weeklies doesn't really was. and to a stroke from human rights watch said coming back to your pig you words are disgusting. i would expect that from anonymous neo nazi trolls but you are an m.e.p. act like one is wrong. he does gusting i think you also called the human filth that's not a language it's hate speech well at that point the argument ceases is new longer an argument that's interesting you are very clear about a judgement this cloaked but you can't be as clear about yourself with pickett's look as far as the pic herds of pics heads are concerned i think i've made my position fairly clear what i thought. because the thought
experiment and i spare a thought experiment thought experiment yes. many people took it for real so i called a whole lot of hate mail shoreline was the launch launch pad i imagine want us really to where tweets come from but it happened i'm i'm a sadder and wiser person i want to try to understand your fear how many hunk areas are. ignored this very difficult to see exactly hungary and but we generally count about thirteen of a half million but then there are people in the united states of hungry and descent who say they are hungry and they can actually apply something really want at work ten million more or less more than the whole case how many muslims live in hungary in twenty thousand not even zero point four percent think the organ says he wants to keep europe christian do you agree i agree with this yes so no muslims muslims
you see feel separate the dome of the norms which are derived from christianity christian europe christian what about jews jews find them funny well it's because it did you dear christian tradition that we're looking at christianity has taken a great deal from judaism that the relationship between christians and jews as our as i know has been bloody christian persecuted and killed jews up until the second vatican council of i think i couldn't agree with you more which is a very shameful part of european history on the other hand at this particular time i think relations between christians and jews have never been better i have a question you are a member of the european union rights of parliament. but hangry is still a member of the u.p.a. you where i left strasburg yesterday the answer was yes so the freedmen freedom of
movement is one of the pillars of the idea of the correct. if european of muslim face want to move to hungary will stop them stop them and thousands will come absolutely true so what about your christianity well that point you to we have to confront the problem and look at it see what's to be done about it as i see there is a small muslim community already hungry part sunni part of your family fled as i know a totalitarian regime and settled in britain why should that not apply to the people facing persecution people facing persecution it doesn't apply to it's the economic migrants that i'm tom syria. some syria or some other people from syria or economic micro the majority of syrian refugees are they clean by the reason of war so a lot of unknowns i do precisely because i haven't done any field work on this we
also knew that the majority or in turkey. and jordan i ask you again do you really think that the majority of syrian refugees are not fleeing because of war and because they are persecuted i thought quite definite about this is you i don't know the motivations of them a chance as a chance was given also to you and your friend who took a chance i think that's right i'm quite prepared to believe the years it is and christians are definitely fleeing because of fear for the fear of their lives with all the sudanese or so doing in the same way i don't know the answer to that. if somebody is a refugee do you ask. after he enters the country of before outside of secrets as to the country and if somebody is saying i flee because of the war in
syria what are you doing there and you say no we must be obeyed if you asked them to make a case baltar of the problem in twenty fifteen with a very large number of people coming with four syrian passports they were bangladeshis or pakistanis or africans do you think that europe is in danger. and i am somewhat concerned i still worry europe is headed for the next five think of bed hungry has a small responsibility about this hungary i think has a responsibility in the say we as any other country have the same size. and i think the responsibility is to offer an alternative to the hyper liberalism that is running europe today nationalism at the answer lucian hood his fields thank you for being on conflicts on this was a pleasure having you with me thank you very much. cut
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