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tv   Quadriga - Journalists Under Fire Who Cares  Deutsche Welle  May 3, 2018 7:30pm-8:00pm CEST

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differencing disadvantage is. something doing this to teach wrongly. to the media to join the discussion and how you will think. liberal media form twenty. points made from mind and. hello and welcome it is world press freedom day and we're devoting this episode of quadriga to assessing how well journalists the world over are able to do their job which of course is nothing less than telling the truth and let me start out by saying the news isn't good right here at d w our colleagues are calling attention to rising repression they're posting images of the turkish publicists and brothers on the measurement i'll tell you of the chinese editor doing the genny of the saudi
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blogger ralph reed names and faces that stand for hundreds more journalists worldwide who face detention and torture for critical reporting and putting the lives of the notion that europe is an island of press freedom journalists are being murdered here as well so that is deeply disturbing of course to all of us who work in the media business but what does it mean to you dear viewers in the age of social media and citizen journalists as a free press really matter journalists under fire who cares that's our topic here on whether you get here i guess it's a pleasure to welcome she is a freelance journalist in her work training for the academy she travels to regions like the middle east she says not only are journalists being killed troops killed in times of alternative fact what remains. our attitudes and prejudices and we're
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very pleased to have with us on the show vladimir as it probably has worked in russia for the actual shaping up publishing group that is now based in germany working pretty russian language programming he says the atory story tarion states do not really need to kill journalists they have much more sophisticated instruments to bring the media under their control and finally it is a pleasure to welcome shoemaking he is a freelance journalist born and raised in beijing he left china in the late one nine hundred eighty s. and worked in germany since then and he says the boundaries between journalists and non journalists are blurring which makes it more difficult to protect press freedom . so it warm welcome to all of you the world press freedom index published last week by the organization reporters without borders reflects what it calls a world wide to decline characterized by quote hatred of journalism so i'd
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like to start out by asking all three of you to reflect a little bit on your own experience and whether you would say it corroborates that finding a finding of rising hatred of journalism are you seeing that in the form of threats or other risks to telling the truth remembering the quota of russian press minister a couple of years ago maybe two thousand and fourteen and that it's a good thing to get this much stronger. journalist joe places possible because it will be arise the competition among among pejoratives and sort of the pros the goal of the russian state at the time to get as much journalism all told there joel. and that's obviously part of the. decline of the press freedom of national. your work in europe of course as well but particularly i know that you travel to the middle east you train middle eastern journalism would you say they are facing that
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kind of rising animosity. yes i think there are they are squeezed between two worlds of animals two one is the end not animosity by governments. as long as they do their job as they should do it and on the other hand it's mistrust why the people who don't share their ideas they think that those two all right things which don't which i looked in agreement was their only opinions biased so they have this double problem one handed the old sarge use which are against them and that and a rise in mistrust from the people for whom they were king and thank you very much a phenomenon of course that we've seen in the us with the rise of polarization had and will come back to that in just a moment and for you she may when you look especially at china would you say that
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you see this active hostility toward journalism and the press in freedom index is reporting. you know i think it is a very complex there one the hand to be trust is increasing but not just against jonas but against the media or in general because of the mediator or the control of the state that the state bans everything else and most people most chinese are not relying on this beat to go they switch to social media where they don't know who is really journalist who isn't drawn list the sometimes mistrust somebody but they don't say we just mistrust journalist the mistrust that because they don't know who is that behind some news assessments of judgments and opinions they just don't know. so reporters without borders the organization that
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puts out the press freedom index they also say quote unquote hatred of journalism is actively threatening democracies all of you are now based here in a democracy you live and work in europe would you say that that is true or is it perhaps a bit hyped and think that the russian assault on the press freedom in russia it's a part of the broader assault on the democracy on the self because press freedom or freedom of speech is a crucial part of the globalization and we are facing the assault on the bill is ation itself because it's not only both freedom of speech it's about freedom of elections about democracy in general so obviously yes. and you both yes i think it's the question is what does it mean freedom of speech freedom of speech means that people are allowed to know all what's going on and the moment that friggin off beaches threaten dog doesn't work anymore people see only
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a very small part of reality a part which is being wished for by those who will prevent them from speaking out and so that means that people can decide anymore on on what they want because they are menu but they did a very bizarre thing on a very small piece of information getting the arts meter and then things like the american elections a printing because people are free in the country the free press like us but they've result is very interesting essentially shimming it's a question of whether we see journalism and the media as an active part of the democratic system is it you know sometimes we have like to call ourselves the fourth estate a pillar of democracy do you think that is still the case in the eyes of people beyond the media themselves oh yes or yes we can split the journalist
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really into in st categories first information second assessment and third discussion so the information if you don't get the information you wish to have to have you are very upset you get the feeling that some someone is going to happen but you don't know what is going to happen so some incidents and why mental contacts some war or some conflicts and so on so you just don't have the information so that people who spread this information whether they are jealous or not will come in general but. so mistrust as a whether these spreading real information second is assessment not everyone is able to assess a situation assess the information they are receiving so this surge is discussion whether you could invite people to attending some discussion i mean the old three
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terms the don't the limbs don't know this is the crucial part i don't say it is the only part but it is a very very crucial the does not replace anything else but the generate the vitalized over three categories and i think every democracy is depending on this repellers of. interaction among people without it it would work i think that many of us here in europe would take an active free press for grad it would say well it can't happen here but the fact is interesting lee enough the the press freedom index of reporters without borders says that it is in europe itself where the decline in press freedom has been worst let's take a look at the to particularly notorious cases. multan
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october twenty seventeen a car bomb killed multis journalist daphne koller wanna delete sia her investigative reporting had uncovered several cases of corruption in the mediterranean country despite massive protests her murder remains unsolved but other journalists are continuing her investigations slovakia in late february investigative journalist deon cuzzi act and his partner martina cushion a roof over murder. have reported on organized crime by slovakian politicians protests here at least resulted in the resignation of prime minister property fico . murders of journalists right in europe extreme cases of the threat to press freedom in western democracies according to reporters without borders the press is coming under increasing pressure in eastern european countries such as poland hungary and the czech republic is europe becoming a crisis zone for journalists. and let me
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put that question and that's by the way not our formulation of in fact the formulation of reporters without borders which refers to a continent in crisis again hype or reality would you say looking at europe. i think in europe there's a very negative development and a very dangerous development towards intimidation off of journalists or those. any relation of independent media and by several means by economic means by political means and i think this goes together with very. worrying political developments that this what we said before that it goes hand in hand we have in several countries we have a very clear tendency to autocratic regimes where there is one
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then there's trying to talk to limit individual freedoms citizens freedom freedoms more and more and the limitation of free press is a part of it that it is supposed requestion and persecution of journalists are often seen as being associated with war with autocracy but i was struck by the connection in those two cases that we just saw with corruption both of the reporters who were murdered were investigating forms of corruption and in fact state capture. tell us something about that nexus and is that also part of the phenomenon we've seen in russia nor us in government don't care for other instruments to control the press it's not about keeping journalists make general sort of just the nexus between corruption and repression of the press. for
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them the nexus between corruption and repression of the press of course a very eerie particularism seen in danger in the critical press it is special in countries which no strong tradition of the critical press like germany's or eastern europe or russia is very very aggressive towards critical journalists or they're trying to silence them by all means and trying to put them all out of business as haven't been to iraq to spring here in russia a couple of years ago the new russian lol was for beating the foreign investment in the media business or bring in the other foreign companies they're pushed all to for us are very soft by very soft means so nor oppression and self but they're pushed to sold those so there's businesses that are russian partners so it's a kind of state controlled control over their media landscape shoemaking would you also say that. having had experience with other systems at
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other countries that europe has a real problem here or would you say actually this does still remain an island of press freedom in comparison. no europe cannot stayed out of this genera trains we see always so some psychological effect of journalism which was criticised very critically by the economy if there is a journalism in europe in germany steeping critically with china the economy say oh please don't report that negatively because we need that it's just business so it works it works upon the politics it works upon journalists it works upon universities we now see the influencing. efforts from the chinese government through the media through the university through the journalists
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so i think it is evolution to regard any part of the word as island of freedom of press and so all the globalisation has reach every quarter in every terms also in terms of a press freedom but it can also be the other case in the other direction i just told this this is not a joke this is the reality for a few days of chinese social media or blogger has discovered one picture just one picture this picture was read by by state media. he checked this picture through the pm. beyond china's boundary and he she for a he fun found out that this picture's read by china's state media was fake and he posted another picture to prove that and that. that triggers
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a wave of of discussion on ten is social media and. this credit china's state media so that the. spokesman of china's defense minister has to appear for the press and say i'm sorry it's just a fake this case shows that we should not only talk about the negative. influences upon this very widespread ing journalism done by almost everyone we should also see the hope that they could be a risk reprise intended but how hopeful can you be when you see that the chinese regime is now cracking down on social media as well absolutely tightening its grip on social media i simply don't believe that they can because within their government there are so many conflicting interests every ministry ministry wish to
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bring their information their shoes they. actually conflicted with the other ministry every party organization in the one province is a conflict the other party organization part of the juggling of the. chinese social media was founded was supported by just this come conflicting parties within the ruling party within the government we are living in a world where you can might might you might be able to shut down all of the media but you cannot shut down over the interests. but of course what you can do and what we have seen done as you just described it but we have certainly seen it elsewhere as well is set up a concept of alternative truths that discredit credit's the truth itself i checked the trump a twitter archive this morning and discovered that trump has tweeted about fake
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news no less than one hundred ninety four times since he won the election he has referred to reporters as enemies of the people is this just trump being trump or is he in fact absolutely undermining a free press let's take a look. i. got go ahead go ahead no not you not you your organization is terrible your organization shareable let's go go ahead quiet quiet go ahead she's she's asking a question don't be rude don't be rude. don't be written i'm not going to give you a quote i'm not going to give you a question you are fake do is go ahead. thank you for quitting you say ok it's just trumping trump being rude to critics has
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a long standing tradition amongst politicians and he's simply doing it his own way . here's going at his own way and the political politics or politicians always have been lying that normal but he is. he's a new model in this he does it much more and he is not only himself on twitter he hears his whole stuff they remember his speaker talked about her defects that means somehow he states an example for something being worn more spread out and more and more recognized so we have a ton of defects that means we have i want narrative it's not about truth and the more it's a question. take the rulz of what should be facts it becomes everything becomes opinion and conviction and this is new and this i see as
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a very very dangerous development coming back to what you said that they. are limited to what the distinction between professional journalism and citizen journalism is being blurring blurred more and more that means everybody can create so-called truth this is this what what's happening russell you don't need to suppress the real press you don't need to suppress or to suppress journalism you create in the completely new reality of it fake news or you thirty's news betrays an of completely new new reality of your social media so that people who don't trust the classical to your classical press. anymore this beaching did a complete new reality in staying there. we saw that happen didn't we with the script all attacks where suddenly the russian government had about eight different possible explanations of that all contradicted each other but the point was precisely to set up that kind of set system of alternative truths so obvious so
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it's very very good to during the crisis in the ukraine two thousand interest thirteen in two thousand and fourteen as the news popped up in the vista media as well which were not real news but the fake news founded by the russian propaganda machine coming back to the second part of our title we asked who cares shimming fact checkers continually disproved not only president trump's claims but those of lattimer putin and those of other strong men and yet it seems like that doesn't generate all that much outrage you know i wouldn't say that i think the ultra rich are being differently channeled for example if you observe chinese a social media almost every statement of states have made media was questioned almost every so even chinese estate media say our economy is running
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a world some of the social media says no no no no no this figure that figure you don't know whether the figure fit the reality but you know that people does approve and even president xi jinping is very you might do you figure and tease compared to which is we need the pool and over the chinese media was shut down who ever dared to posting we need the pool picture but the we need to prove spreading. all over the chinese social media are in every shape so i don't think that people don't generally take care of. what really is important to them to their daily lives or how the feeling whether someone is is going to kill them or to do some harms to them the care of quite
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a lot but they don't care isn't in the form we are used to know so some of the classic journalists put to too much attention to the classic newspapers of the divisions and so on and now it is the difficulty to figure out how important the social media are and the other are turning to forums i don't say they are correct how important they are becoming for measuring the real mood within the country. how would you assess the role of social media in a country like germany some people here feel that there is a stronger basis of trust in political institutions and in journalism than there would be in a country like the us for example on the other hand we have the far right using social media to spread the notion of a new can press a lying press so it can cut both ways can't it. yes i
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think that. in germany that the trust in classical media is is bigger and in other parts than in dictatorships for example like the one you said all. egypt people will not trust. because they consider rightly so that they are not depicting reality i think the question is how you use social media the question is like you already said. very often who is saying lot on social media you don't really know the author. is it right what they say not tools interests they would presenting so i think that's the problem but if we which. have to transform themselves and. remain visible
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coming back to is very briefly to our title we're almost out of time but it's not a mirror in the face of journalism under fire what can we all do not only the press but what can other still menu the very top to do your attitude to new technology got out of tune through work and i phone everyone is a publisher everyone is absorbing. more efforts including new social media through we have to fight the fights of the enemies of the press freedom for their own. thank you very much thanks to all of you for being with us and thanks to you out there for tuning in see you soon.
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is news live from fighting to keep the media free of censorship on world press freedom day asks journalists why honest and accurate reporting is so crucial we take the pulse of the media around the globe. also coming up a white house legal aid confirms that president trump did.


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