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tv   Interview - Klaus von Dohnanyi Germany and France have to lead Europe.  Deutsche Welle  May 27, 2018 6:02am-6:15am CEST

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parking lot of my time. around is taking the trouble with your paper to. look a little different than the jerk in. the entire country champion. for the last sixty years. before mine's. also known he was a minister in the governments of the libra and how much mitt his father hons was a leader of the anti nazi resistance he himself doesn't shy away from voicing criticism not even of his own party we're talking to him about the future of germany and if europe is like. thanks for coming. it's a pleasure. mr funded nonny work with some important chancellors and your close
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friends with angela merkel. given your wealth of experience to share ask you for advice. about that no we never discuss politics but politics were simpler in those days than it is now an angle america's era politike america in the us is no to the world has become a lot more complicated there are many more states if you look at the u.s. and other states countries have a growing need to retreat and focus on their own interests. there are signs of dissolution in catalonia the basque country and scotland. one consequence of globalization is that a number of regions are seeking autonomy brussels is too far away washington is too far away that they would rather be self-governing and of course that makes things harder we. are going to seen as the world's most powerful woman something she doesn't like to hear. but that's how she's seen and there's some
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truth to it. even so there is little she can do to rein in donald trump and vladimir putin how much room to maneuver does she actually have a point. there are two aspects to want you said the u.s. is in so far problematic because of the sanctions it's always imposing like specifically in order to force states to do things they don't want to do that they're expressed goal that. does this well basically yes and they can get away with it because the u.s. market is important for german and international companies and the u.s. can isolate anyone who doesn't do what it wants put in it is different we should be spending more time talking to him but the americans are in the way blocking talks and ago. she asians and any opportunities to get along with him even though good american politicians i know and others who have
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a sound reputation agree but keeping channels of communication open is the only way forward. and europe is weak why. europe is weak because europe can't agree on a common foreign and defense policy i've long been of the opinion that it boils down to germany and france. and germany and france need to take charge they need to lead europe. and there's never been a union within a larger region without head germanic partners and germany and france need to assume hegemonic status and step up as the leading powers in europe. until france has understood the opportunity it has together with germany europe won't make any progress. openly for. anybody but the opposite of this is happening it feels as though europe is winding down britain is exiting eastern european countries are saying sure we'll take the money but we don't want any
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responsibilities for the italians are saying there should be a parallel currency that allows them to get out of debt or can the e.u. as we know it be salvaged so. no one understands what italy is on about let's wait and see. eastern europe is saying it wants to be heard. in this respect the us is playing an unfortunate role because it went out of its way to convince these countries to be terrified of russia and it played a not inconsiderable role in the ukraine problem. we need to talk very clearly about u.s. interests and european interests. conflicting interests that's just how it is the. refugees are not arriving on american soil in a denny's whereas they're here on our doorstep. we need to talk honestly about these issues but in my opinion germany and france are not speaking with one voice and they're failing to get the twenty seven states to speak with one voice like to
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continue. this that there are many countries struggle to speak with one voice because it takes so long to form a government not just here and also in italy and in other countries too. what does this mean for european democracies that. i would say that liberal democracies not just in europe but in australia new zealand and iceland wherever you look have a big problem there are no solid constitutional structures that meet the needs of our new era for example if you bear in mind what happened in the weimar republic it didn't fail because there were too few democrats in germany that's what's often said and it's utter nonsense in one thousand twenty eight hitler had five three percent of the vote support then grew during the economic crisis when there was a sort of civil war raging in germany there was no stable government we have to see if our system for electing and forming
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a government is sufficiently stable to weather the turbulent times ahead and they will be turbulent very turbulent. times. democracies are becoming weaker or they don't have to become weaker they could just be organized differently if it weren't for the constructive vote of no confidence and the five percent hurdle which italy doesn't have then we too would have had fifteen governments in twenty years like the italians. democracies are becoming weaker europe's becoming weaker at the same time social democracy is in disarray what's the reason in your opinion. it's an international problem and i'd say the main reason is to do with some of the problems that affect us all the growing inequality the need for a more just distribution of wealth that's very hard to achieve in a liberal democracy and no one has yet managed to find a way that works here in germany we do quite well when it comes to income disparity
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where we are among the best performing countries in the world but we still have a problem when it comes to wealth inequality where we have problems deriving from earlier crises high inflation after the first world war and the devastation of the second world war we still haven't got to grips with the consequences of these crises that's a problem we're always hearing these days about large inheritances but many people don't have one and that's something we need to think about. seasoned if you've been a member of the social democrats the s.p.d. for over sixty years in the last federal election its support fell to a record low of twenty point five percent my survey shows that right now it's at seventeen percent is the party now once again in a coalition with medical shrinking. it's not because of the coalition it has to do with the lineup it shows and clearly made a cardinal era with martin shultz he was incapable of leading a party leading the s.p.d.
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incapable of thinking through political decisions he's a nice guy but he's not a good politician he should never have been made leader. it's good to see one idea to revive the party's fortunes is to form a collective left wing movement made up of the s.p.d. the greens and the left party politicians such as rudolph truslow from the s.p.d. are starting to agree with me saying the time has come for a new type of left wing what do you think. i think something like that is possible but i think we need to guard against the possibility that radicals determine the direction which is what often happens in these cases in the past whenever social democrats and communists have joined forces it's been the communists who had the upper hand even when they were initially a minority. so we need to make sure that we don't end up led by people whose policies are bad for germany. but you don't categorically oppose the idea i don't think it's great but i think it is possible
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that it will happen. you're overly brown also referred to a left of center majority. by him that's not the only difference exactly. studied in the us we're a manager at ford and you said that the s.p.d. still doesn't understand the demands of a globalized world do you still believe that. that's what i do a very global ised world is made competitiveness the most decisive factor in how we behave for example trump has cut corporate taxes we have a higher corporate tax rate in germany so then germany immediately wonders if it needs to follow suit with the competitive conditions in the world to determine agenda and that's a premise we need to accept that we can't keep saying that there are no inherent factual constraints as the s.p.d. is always saying that. of course there are and we need to deal with them
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constructively. when the s.p.d. finally acknowledge is the link between competition the market and freedom which also obliges me to do certain things which you might prefer to do differently then it will get back on track. because we need to. i already mentioned that your close friends with chancellor angela merkel and her husband are coming so close. we have a similar way of thinking. about the pragmatists. we're interested in art and music we meet up to go to concerts and. we get along very well on that level. we take a very pragmatic view of the world and. that's what you need to have if you want to do politics if you're going to be in politics then you need to face up to reality and not champion hopes that are bound to be disappointed. and then off.
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she also accompanied you when your father was honored yeah yeahs that's right. when you have a sham recognised my father's efforts to save jews during the holocaust. and her husband were there and that moved me very deeply. whereas my friends from the s.p.d. were not there. at the time she was part of the opposition that was two thousand and three your father was executed by the nazi regime when you were sixteen was he able to pass on to you any important meaningful life lesson. you know what to stand up for what you believe in and not be afraid when others disagree that's what he taught me if you don't have to fund a not in i'll give you three sentences which i'd like you to complete i won't stop sitting uncomfortable truths because stating uncomfortable truths and being an outsider is the only way to be creative. it will survive because. because
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ultimately these days there are more social democratic questions than answers the answers need to be found or europe will only survive if germany and france together take the lead and don't heed what others say. thanks for talking to us. what keeps us in shape what makes us see. my name is dr carson the i talk to medical experts. watch them at work. and i discuss what you can do to improve your head. stay tuned and let's all try to stay. calm d.w. . that people over information.
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