tv Conflict Zone - Guest Ehud Olmert Deutsche Welle June 11, 2018 1:30am-2:01am CEST
and steered by creatures decisions we must deal with. the germans every week. my guest this week here in tel aviv is the former israeli prime minister ehud olmert he ordered an invasion of gaza in two thousand and eight what are his thoughts now about the recent violence along the border and a first for an israeli prime minister he went to jail for corruption how is it that he has no regrets. there who don't want welcome to come. thank you you said the other day while the
violence on the gaza border was in full swing that the palestinians could still make a peace deal with israel if they could seize the opportunity of the deal with trump you seriously think any palestinian will seize the opportunity we now have a thousand palestinian children injured by gunfire from your soldiers you really think they're going to make peace with a country that does that but it's a complex question so let's try and divide it into the different components ok let's deal with the violence first of all. very much i'm. disturbed by the events in the border with gaza. on the one hand there is no question that israel kind of photo have all these thousands of people penetrating into a part of israel which is recognized by the entire international community to be israel this is actually picked off by you know others it's not justifies nipe was
just i mean it's something thousand kids only there were tens of thousands of people and they were. indeed there were many casualties and there were sixty two people killed and internally sorry and sad about it and i. also i have serious questions as to what are the appropriate. patterns of response to the illegal attempt to penetrate into israel is it necessary to use the guns they way they were used to snipers they were they were used you have reservations about the lethal force that was my questions i have questions i have one those i have doubts. yes because the results speak for themselves that yes how many injuries how many deaths on the israeli side if it was such a mortal threat to the state of israel no one son agency. no
one sais that this was a mortal threat to the state of israel but that's the only thing addition on the which you're supposed to use lethal force so what do you used to do whether were you supposed to do when tens of thousands of people want to cross the border enter illegally into country what do you want to do what can you do what would you do what would you do in your own country had thousands of people from another country from a hostile country from an unfriendly country try to penetrate into a country would you not try to stop it how to do it exactly what is the amount of force you can use is a question that there needs to be asked at the end of the day don't pretend to argue and i hope you don't. that the other side is made of engineers this is hummer us and always asian recognize children you know you shoot children you don't
separate the children from the crowd there was try to plan and present israelis and children are separated by international law from a crime and they're separated by international in they are encouraged and they are pushed to go by terrorists hamas terrorists wherever they are says we have reminded israel it is imperative that lethal force only be used as a last resort and when strictly unavoidable in order to protect the i suggested at the beginning when you asked me i suggested that we will first of all recognize the fact that this was an attempt to illegally penetrate into another country which. has legally to be stalked and the other issue is exactly how you do it and what amount of force you use it that i say i have my own questions about the way it was done and i hope that i will get appropriate answers for my side what
am i happy i am very unhappy about the outcome was it in is capable was it essential was there no other way i don't know i doubt i want to deal with one other thing you said about gaza you said israel had left gaza cleared out its settlements left it all behind but that's not the full story is it new control almost every crossing you control everything that goes in or out you control the population registry you control the public utilities you destroy the airport so you control the airspace you control the sea space so you haven't left gaza you stood outside the cage instead of inside because of all we did pull out from gaza and you remember i'm sure you do know this was not simple and easy we need the state of israel it was part of a very. painful. mistake campaign against tens of thousands of
israelis hundreds of thousands who opposed the government move in to do that so it was not simple and easy the problem is and this is the tragedy is that unfortunately gaza is controlled by terrorist organization by hamas which is money plating the population and the population is a lot hated it for a living we we look at it we we locate it we first of all i think. that gaza is first and foremost a victim of a terrorist organization hamas just as lebanon is a victim in other ways by a terrorist organization as well they are controlling it they are threatening it they are building tunnels they are shooting rockets at the israeli settlements across the bow nobody could fall. but you don't criticize you don't recycle this way you in force you bring you around guns i know i know and the u.n.
says you're still nothing i know whatever the u.n. is not necessarily a reflection of an objective judgment of the situation so them being in the u n a is an example for objectivity and for decency with regard to the state of his will but i want to go think of the view of a lot of countries as you know and human rights. as well without giving me the chance to say where i may perhaps agree with yourself to some extent so let me i say that number one is controlled by a terrorist organization and we have to take all the necessary measures to defend the israeli population from the terrorist attacks by rockets by violent tunnels as they are doing that's number one now is they israeli air if you do it's gaza he's the smartest i'm not certain about that can we do it in a different way. i think we can consider doing it in somewhat different way this is
a this is a long way from when you didn't go in in two thousand and eight two thousand and nine operation cast lead isn't it you don't want to heal what may be in contradiction to a prejudice cease but i want to say what i think you don't know whether i have any prejudices you only or not i have questions i let challenging questions but you don't cancel puta those if you let me hundreds of this i think that we have to change the relations with gaza in as much as it doesn't drop a dice the security of the state of his word now don't ask me about two thousand and eight you belong to the past i want to belong to the future in two thousand and eight i tried as much as i could to reach an agreement with hamas and the was an agreement accepted in june of two thousand and eight for hudler for. an official cease fire and it lasted exactly two days until it was violated by the
hamas and then you went in with massive. waves in with my friends when sixty rockets were shot that. dog a strain on the sheba when a million people were sitting in. shelters in order to defend the militants from the sixty man we had many come and we had we had quite a few quite well many men twenty thirty until until we all set for two month for one month in shelters and they see almost thirteen hundred and ninety worry people including three hundred children were they terrorists as well three hundred children. look. bensalem york your mentally you are how you started you were heading into the statistics of the hamas which i don't have to subscribe to i'm telling you this and this is i don't know i don't know who statistic is this i
know one thing that the israeli cities were shot at by rockets coming from gaza hundreds of thousands of them for a long period of time and the first obligation of every government including my government when i was prime minister was to defend the life of my people and sometimes unfortunately at the cost of lives of others the palestinians killed nine people you killed three hundred thirty nine hundred ninety one because we are stronger when we are forced to to it was stopped response traction. thank you ring structure it the fact remains there are a few months later we started to shoot again rockets although we do not instead of trying to talk to us on the basis of accept the principles that were defined by the international community you may not remember but if we go back since you go back to
two thousand and eight we define this very principles and then i say that if these principles will be accepted by hamas it was accepted by the international community i will negotiate with hamas i didn't say that i will never sit with them and talk to them there we all know that to resolve their outstanding issues between us and them in gaza in a peaceful manner well if you are still only there if you still do your military action inside gaza was described by your foreign minister tzipi livni as real hooliganism she said israel demonstrated real hooliganism in the course of the recent operation she said that in january two thousand and nine which i demanded. she said so my question to you is what happened to that moral army that israel has always talked about the real hooliganism one tweet that you that you wanted me to argue with the former foreign minister. we should say though didn't say i don't
know exactly what she said i talked with exactly she said that israel demonstrated real holiness and let me finish two weeks before an election i prefer not to do it i don't think that it is appropriate to go back into these. these arguments and going back nine years ago or ten years ago but it's the here on ishmael doctrine you know that your army had saint of it is this that we're seeing in gaza it is this simple doctrine. which has characterized the conduct of every normal and reasonable country use as my let me finish. which is when you are attacked by rockets into your cities you have to defend yourself now that you have to use disproportionate if we help those are meant for damage and just really here have to use for this
proportion we have you know this is you know this cloak of the eyes and caught your current army chief felt it out in two thousand and nine when he talked about your second war in lebanon he said what happened in the day here quote beirut in two thousand and six will happen in every village from which shots are fired on israel we will use disproportionate force against it and we will cause immense damage and destruction gives the game away doesn't look number one. indeed in order to the terror terrorists killers made from continuing the. endless attacks against innocent civilians sometimes we have to use disproportionate force in order to stop them we did it successfully in lebanon the number of casualties was minimal relative to the force that we used in the dock in the beirut there were not too many casualties but the whole neighborhood was
destructed destroyed at the time and it would have been destroyed again had they started to shoot against innocent civilians no spot of israel i know you live with this huge loss of life very bad that is that is cool hang by by your order you know if you live with it is it was caused by the fact that my people my citizens children in israel children in israel innocent children in his will were attacked and use jokes and sleep more easily because their children are you know where when my my children are not a take by rockets coming from that side they sleep better yes and they have to sleep better and that's my responsibility of children they lost to those no i don't want to. i don't want to cause the loss of life. today or years and sometimes i don't i don't deny that the outcome of the count the tech which was unavoidable in order to defend us cause the cause
a loss of life of other people and some of them innocent unfortunately and i regret it and i am sad about it and as i say that the beginning regarding the events that you mentioned of last week in this context. i think that we have to consider other options of gratian. which will be less violent and only one thing let's talk about iran donald trump was pressed very hard by the current israeli government to junk the nuclear deal the prime minister's office said it was a bad deal but for years and back to the time when you were prime minister israel has been tremendously hypocritical about the nuclear issue hasn't it telling iran not to pursue its program but refusing to come clean on the nuclear program that many experts are satisfied that you have and they and the missiles nuclear
missiles. definitely i'm not familiar with what they say about israel and i don't want to comment about that because i don't think they shoot you to make bad comments about it you let the cat out of the bag anyway didn't you in november december two thousand and six you told a german t.v. station iran openly explicitly and publicly threatens to wipe israel off the map can you say this is the same level when they are aspiring to have nuclear weapons as america france israel and russia. so you gave an hour and a wonderful perfect answer to the question and i wonder why did you have to ask the question if you have such an answer what is the comparison between israel and iran israel whether they have nuclear weapons or not and i'm not going to talk about it never threatened to use it against anyone iran openly and publicly throughout all these years including from two thousand and six and earlier to this
they threaten to wipe out evil from the me so do you want their why we are concerned about the possibility of iran having nuclear power you know that's that's that's not the point ok backcrosses for what is worth trying to tell the rest of the world that being a nuclear power has responsibilities who is israel to maintain this what you call a strategic ambiguity when you demand that everyone else comes clean about having everyone that threatens to wipe out another country from the map you you think they trust you when you know when you trust them you ignore did we ever threaten iran of anything did we ever say that we want and i don't know whether the thread can be implicit or spoken counted when you have it explicit you read it out from your notes easily where you don't have it it's because he doesn't exist we never
threatened iran we never wanted to wipe out any country from the map and iran repeatedly and continuously for many years is doing percentage schimmel sarah said that israel wouldn't be the first to introduce nuclear weapons into the middle east that's not true that's simply not true jimmy carter said in two thousand and eight you had them and he said in two thousand and fourteen you had between one hundred fifty and three hundred warheads who say it's all jimmy carter. and he should know i wish to macarthur the very best i'm not sure that he knew what he was talking about in two thousand and fourteen and i don't think that he was aware of any. facts regarding the israeli. nuclear capabilities or the lack of them in any time earlier he say that he said many things that they didn't agree with he doesn't know and i don't know so i can confirm it. was convinced by nine hundred seventy five
according to declassified documents in washington that even though they refused to tell this to congress that you had nuclear weapons by nine hundred seventy what they want me to argue was what was said in one nine hundred seventy five when they knew it was going to react that long ago long ago look there were so many and nonsense stories that were spread about israel and about israel capabilities and what we haven't we don't get to the world we don't have and i think it would be super slow some clues from you know we sort of lost entirely to argue with this look israel sayed that we will not be the first to introduce nuclear weapons to the middle east israel never say that we will have to take another country in order to wipe you out of the make up iran say did it and therefore the international community not just israel russia. the friendliest of israel china.
all the other countries i don't know can't even let me let me finish all these countries signed an agreement with iran to prevent iran from possessing nuclear power why do they delete because they know that if iran will possess nuclear power it will impact they not just the middle east but the whole world in a very dramatic minute so why do you try to argue with me about the concerns of israel this is the concern of all the international you know saying. and as prime minister i did say by the way time and again that while we will do every possible effort to join forces with other countries in order to prevent iran from possessing nuclear power this is first and foremost a responsibility of the superpowers of the united states of russia of china of great britain with the responsibility of everybody. it's a responsibility to particularly when a country threatens to use its power in order to wipe out on the map another
country and that's what the iranians are doing that's why it is such a concern comes down to trust as you well know. comes down to a matter of trust you're saying the world cautions you want a contrast around how on earth can anyone trust here if you want to trust the iranians it's your problem i don't let's let's talk about you mr you were released from jail last summer after serving sixteen months for accepting bribes and obstructing justice but you still claim you were innocent absolutely but you couldn't convince the courts of that could you sometimes it happens doesn't everyone in jail claim they're innocent they do you ever meet anybody who said they were given i wish i could give you my book which. is altogether nine hundred pages i was going to say no. couple of hundred talk about these issues i will know the rabbit now because this is the fourth time i've eaten
. explains precisely why the was mr justice and why there was a conspiracy in order to try and put me down from my position as prime minister in order to prevent what i was trying to do which would have changed the entire middle east and that could have made history politics is a pretty dirty game in israel isn't exactly everywhere when you look at the record of senior officials and presidents here who've served time or been described it's a long list isn't it in fact since one thousand nine hundred six every single israeli pm has been vested gaited on corruption charges including the present income but benyamin netanyahu prime minister incumbent yes yes i'm innocent why do you hate him so much me yeah i don't hate anyone not even if you told him you to it you said in an interview with cash t.v. he should resign now in an elegant way go run disappear so that we don't hear you or those around you that's what i tell him and that will happen in the end. does it
mean that i hate only means that i'm politically opposed to him i don't want to go into details it seems to me to be pretty rude about you talked about his personal appearance and you know that there is another bit of we evil little to stop the hair blowing when it's been. quoted repeatedly on israeli t.v. that when i was investigated netanyahu kept saying time and again on television that they should resign because someone who is under investigation can perform in such a sensitive and difficult position as prime minister so basically what i said is that what you say to me is definitely true about you we saw much more of investigations and accusations and and suspicions and whatnot but you took a second you're still bitter about him you know him he's my prime minister respect him for his achievements. back i called him an amazing failure as prime
minister he called you a quote certified liar it's rough getting me to play this do you want me to quote now some of the statements made by british politicians against each other. exchanges which take place in sometimes. unfriendly political confrontations which is typical of most democratic countries you wouldn't know quote what president trump the incumbent in america said about his opponent or his opponent about him so what you keep reading from jail came out so i came. now we're going to change to no regrets nothing no regrets no only only sadness for mistakes which were made by me i definitely made mistakes you don't think you shamed the office and i minister no i don't think that this is the editor of the
israelis to me on the contrary you go to the street and you ask people and they will tell you they think that i was a good prime minister and they're right by the way i think i did some good things and i want to do more good things there were reasons why i was. so fiercely opposed by particular sections. when i was prime minister regrettably but i think that what i did was very important in some very sensitive areas security of the state of israel and the welfare of the people of israel and you're not a crook and i'm very proud of my achievements and this is not what people think about me i would only have good to have you in the comfort zone thank you very much very much thank you.
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please. reread. the a. period. this is deja vu news live from berlin the u.s. and its closest allies find themselves in a diplomatic and trade dispute following this weekend's g. seven summit german chancellor angela merkel calls critical tweets about donald trump sobering and depressing she also says the e.u. will retaliate against u.s. tariffs on steel and aluminum. also coming up donald trump meanwhile arrives in singapore the u.s. president steps off air force one on what he calls his mission of peace he's there for tuesday's historic talks with north korean leader kim jong il and her right.