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tv   Quadriga - Kim Trump Big Deal  Deutsche Welle  June 14, 2018 11:30pm-12:01am CEST

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all the matches all the scores. two thousand a team soccer world cup on d w news. and on demand. language courses. video and audio. w media sector. alone a very warm welcome indeed to quadriga where we're looking at the fallout from the nuclear summit in singapore between u.s. president donald trump and north korean leader kim jong il now at the meeting there were historic handshake followed by the signing of what was described as a comprehensive documents in which trump and kim promised to work towards the
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complete denuclearize ation of the korean peninsula the question is though will these two volatile leaders keep their promises and is this agreement only going to upgrade the international standing of a murderous dictator so our question here on quadriga this week is trump and came a big deal and it's to answer that question i'm joined here in the studio by sasha hock an expert on disarmament which i can germany's a nobel prize winning organization for the abolition of nuclear weapons he say's trump and kim's deal doesn't go far enough to succeed to the denuclearization of the korean peninsula has to be embedded in international law and other actors need to be involved with this is matthew carney chief europe correspondent for politico and matthew argues that it may be hard for many to accept but trump was of rights just getting the north koreans to the table to seriously top. please he's an
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impressive outcome and a very warm welcome suited to our union from the korea communication research center here in berlin who believes that properly knowing and understanding north korea is the key to peace well thank you full three of you for being here with me today on quadriga i'd like to begin with you to uni and south korean president moon j m has been quoted as saying that the trump kim summit opens the way to a new era of peace and cooperation on the korean peninsula do you agree i totally agree and it's already agree here is a very historical moment. with the faults and north korea summit in april and also the following summit which happened a few days focal think it's very historical that north korea came to the negotiation table on the same level with us and also when we look at the articles of the agreement the article number one was not the new clear i fish and which is very unfair for north what which could be unfair for north korea however they first
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said it that the new relationship between u.s. and north korea with be the priority for them and also the p three game should be protected and all thought us have all knowledged to protect the regime of north korea and to give security protections for north korea which is a big fuck fest which i believe in this summit and also they have the article of the nuclear life ation which has some controversies however for this that is the first step of u.s. and north korea right now and for the first step i think it was enough and it's totally successful so should i assume you give them everything that you're saying that there is a mood of euphoria in south korea at this point in time yes we find more hope from this moment and i've i assured him and i also personally fairest that kurt many koreans had fear and heart fear of war and this was high that for them inside of. for many years and for their entire life because when they face the fear that
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if i think their heart the fear of war from outside powers then they cannot survive for their whole life because if they know how the fact that the situation will be however now they overcame somewhat in a way of their fear if they're trying to step further and they are making festivals out of their fifth thing that i met and also they are they found some hope in the korean peninsula that keefe can actually be made in this current punishment so a very positive story matthew condition of donald trump the deal breaker who scored a great victory in singapore but it might be too early to claim a great victory but i think just the fact as i said that you know he got the north koreans to the table and that they're discussing substantive issues or will be in the coming weeks. is is something that one shouldn't downplay it at this
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point i think there's always a lot of skepticism and you hear these arguments well he's putting kim on a pedestal or he's allowing him to have this sort of perception that he's world leader that he's legitimize in him at the same time though i feel this is exactly what we've done with with putin for years and here we have a leader who is in many people's you responsible for using chemical weapons in syria who has annexed crimea as we know who is fighting a war in ukraine and in europe nobody has a problem with talking to the wrongs make a right well i don't think that there necessarily two wrongs make a right i think that if you argue as many people do that dialogue is important in diplomacy that you're not going to get anywhere if you don't speak to the other side then i don't see how you can be against a meeting like. because you also have to acknowledge that the north koreans have
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these nuclear weapons now and we can't change that it's too late you know the period where we can ignore them as previous american administrations did essentially thinking that well we're going to pressure them with sanctions and at some time at some point they're going to come to the table well that strategy didn't work and now we're at a stage i think where they just they're not just working on nuclear weapons they don't just have one nuclear weapon they apparently have an entire arsenal and i think what trump has done is basically to acknowledge this reality and say we can't pretend that this isn't the case anymore we have to deal with them and if that means legitimizing him then so be it i mean what is really the consequence of that what is the negative consequence in the long term of legitimizing this regime that the that would be interesting to hear what you are announcing. are getting more and more critical no i agree that it is a historic meeting i also agree that it's
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a great progress and it's absolutely important to keep in touch and to do it as a safe place. in a certain way yes because who does not threat who does not shoot but talk. is certainly giving more security to the world. what i'm warning about is the last thing how long this agreement or this declaration will last when this testosterone cloud of singapore is left and also i would like to raise the question who is actually behind this cloud or other other actors who have also contributed to this example to this meeting namely the south korean prime minister moon jane and also china in a certain way we know that. has been twice to china before this meeting took. if
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so we should not. believe or trust too much in this two men show that donald trump and camille where presenting not bust but also consider all the relevant factors that played the main role in the korean war and of knowledge that they from now on also have to be into credit and the process of the wind and peace in the region namely china and south korea cannot be just an issue between the u.s. and north korea and second we have to embed this declaration which is non-binding without any verification system or town time bound plan. we have to embed this in international public law so that we have a structure which makes this agreement which gives this agreement a perspective and the treaty we are proposing is the one of the prohibition of nuclear weapons and nothing briefly you want to say i said i would say i mean i
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agree that china is involved should be involved i don't think that you can have lasting peace in korea obviously without south korea but south korea's the really the one who's been been pushing this and if you look at what you know president said when it looked like that the meeting wasn't going to happen and the south korean reaction i mean they were absolutely essential to this process and china i mean given that china is really the country that enabled north korea to have these weapons in the first place by standing by and allowing this nuclear program to progress it's clear that this is all of one piece but i think this is exactly what you want you don't just want the united states and and the north koreans to be sitting down at the table and you know russia's going to have to be involved in this process at some point too but i i do think that in the end if it does progress in my view this was just a first step it was more of an ice breaker than anything it would have been unrealistic to think that trump would come out of that meeting. with
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a sort of full blown treaty that was you know ready to be signed whereby the north koreans would be foregoing nuclear weapons for ever but at least you know he's created the atmosphere it appears where these negotiations can continue we've been here before in the past but again i don't see any reason why we shouldn't give them the benefit of the doubt and i think that if it had been a different president if it weren't trump you know many of the criticisms that you're hearing now would would not be you know would not be out there let's just remind ourselves of where we have come from in the last couple of months it all began of course with a conventional slanging match that turned into a nuclear own slanging match here some images. the run up to the summit was horribly entertaining. the rocket man the rocket man rocket is a sick game was quick to shoot back.
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i will surely and definitely tame the mentally deranged us dotard with file trump was not to be trumped. they will be met with five year period. like the world has never seen. the question of central concern who has the bigger and more powerful nuclear button. to seem to get along and they know how to put on a show. but if you know that. game's over now. who should take the biggest credit for the breakthrough that we have seen donald trump or somebody else well i think this is a very good question. however to be honest i would like to see if the biggest credit to president one day and with the current president of south korea because. firstly he has changed the game he led korea the two koreas to be
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in the center of the negotiation table so now it's not about other states talking about the two asian and korean peninsula but president one day in has lead that the o'shea sions him of other countries and secondly i believe that president wins and has a big credit to continue this summit the u.s. and north korea summit was about to be collapsed however he called north korea. kim jong un right away and he talked with condolence and he negotiated with him and he lead it north korea and us to finally meet together so whether or not this will last long or it will just be a show as some people have argued i think that the fact that u.s. and north korea has met on the negotiation table has a big meaning in the historical perspective and for this i get i believe the
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president when jane made a fateful so as i'm sure we've read with the situation has moved forward that there is that everybody is saying there are problems with the timetabling and especially with the details of this agreement what's missing. it isn't missing the verification actually concrete us on the steps and the plan for this and but it is clear for this meeting it was not nobody expected really that they could within the time they had to have such a result however we need now. a legal structure in which we integrate this peace process and this legal structure has to consider both sides not only north of the north korean side when you're talking about the denuclearization of the korean peninsula. we have only an obligation to stick liberation by north korea and none of the yes but there is the us nuclear umbrella protecting south korea which has
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a geo political impact on the whole region so we also have to address this issue that means we need legal framework that integrates both sides not only the nuclear weapon state but also the state under the umbrella and the only legal system that i know which takes this into account is currently this new treaty on the prohibition on nuclear weapons which also. outlaws the threat of nuclear weapons and nuclear sharing so this could be a framework or structure which we could do for how long would it take to put that framework in place. i like since sincerely i believe that you have to take a long time in to account technically that is precisely what the world and what the impatient donald trump does not want he wants this to happen very quickly indeed is he is it in any way possible denuclearization to happen i don't know in
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a framework of a year let's say. yes it is. very is it possible to dismantle the nuclear weapons is if there is political will but you said the word once and then you're on your corrected donald trump ones i think this is an important difference because i think the priority of south korea of course they are threatened by the nuclear weapons but they want to move forward with a reconciliation and peace process and they ok with a step by step approach china is as well and i think that we need time for such innocent process we just need security and sound last thing framework but it was interesting at the press conference today donald trump oh you know when he was asked about the timeframe a timeline for any or all if they see said he would like to it to happen as fast as it can be done mechanically and physically but it was very interesting you're saying it could actually happen within a year. yeah i mean it could even happen in
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a few months if you withdraw it refute remove the warheads and bring them to the us to dismantle them but this is it's not a technical question it is a political question and as long as nuclear weapons remain the geopolitical center of the world order and remained so attractive for countries to attend to first protect themselves but also have this prestige to talk to the most powerful men of the world as we just saw it as long as we don't solve this geo political problem of status of nuclear weapons we will not see you north korea getting rid of its nuclear weapons very quickly because that's the very function of nuclear weapons for a kid when we talk about kim what can you tell us about kim to help us to understand them and get a little bit closer to the man well i don't personally know kids. however what i can say is. i feel personally that he was quite genuine and i think he was
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consistent with what he really wants those korea wants their red jame to be acknowledged and protected that's the number one priority for them we have to really think about why they are trying to process and develop nuclear weapons is it because they want to make a war against the other countries it's obvious that they can't really win the war so it's just their own button or leverage for them to make the status quo in north korea to be stabilized so if we all knowledge north korea at the same level level then north korea will step forward that the nuclear life ation process and in this sense i found that kim jong un was quite genuine in his way during the two summits the last two summits and also he is what i find from meet him is that he is eager for the for peace in the korean peninsula he wants to denuclearize nuclear weapons
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if his regime is protected and if his if north korean security can be protected so in this sense i find him very positive toward the peace in the korean peninsula and also in the global society and also he is quite eager to this denuclearized his the nuclear weapons in north korea are what i was i made a i have a i found the problem in many media and also many of the public opinions they only put conditions for the new current life station they only focus on new clarification of north korea why don't they put any conditions for us or the other countries not to intervene into the region or not to proffer cait them anymore i think this kind of very filtered and produced a few points should actually change in order for this summit or in order for this agreement to last long if north korea is not on knowledge by the global society or
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if there are so many suspicions. a high and. purpose which he never set up out then this agreement will not last long of course and of course the peace cannot last long ok interesting insights despite all that the fact remains chairman kim of north korea is without doubt an autocratic despots and the big question surrounding his future is will he be able to survive the process of transform a sion the know at least looks possible on the korean peninsula. the troops the north korean dictator commands are not toy soldiers the region is one of the world's most heavily militarized and north korea claims to have nuclear weapons kim jong un is unpredictable and it's not clear how firm his grip on power really is. starting in twenty ten he was a successor to his father kim jong il the next object of adoration in the
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personality cult surrounding the kim dynasty. upon assuming power kim jong un was quick to do away with perceived threats such as his uncle jang song taek who was arrested subjected to a show trial and executed he had been number two in the leadership of. north korea presents itself as a model communist state cautiously opening up to the outside world behind the scenes however torture labor camps and hoarding to people who manage to flee. what does kim really want. to question matthew what this kid really want well i tend to think that he wants a deal and i think it is important to remember that this is an autocratic regime some would say it's a rogue regime and if you look at what they've done in the past you know in counterfeiting u.s. currency which was a huge operation that they undertook or the cyber warfare that they've engaged in it's clear that this this nuclear push that they've undertaken over the past couple
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of decades is aimed at. some point getting something back and i think that although a lot of people laugh at trump in this deal making the sort of aura that he tries to project that he might have found the one country where where where this could actually work and i think you you felt that a little bit at this summit i mean if you remember you know kim came in on a on a chinese airliner i think it shows that this is not a country that is you know particularly wealthy in reality that has the kind of resources that it would like to have he made a big deal about seeing trump's limousine and this kind of thing so i do think it is the kind of leader where trump's approach to diplomacy as it were could actually work and if kim wants a deal does he want to deal where he keeps the nuclear weapons so where he loses the nuclear weapons well he won't get a deal if he doesn't lose the nuclear weapons of course i think he would prefer to keep the nuclear weapons that's not going to happen the u.s.
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won't tell you how can he survive in that scenario he's going to be washed away by history. well i think if he you know greece to open up north korea and get some sort of economic benefits in return for giving up the nuclear weapons which is exactly what trump has offered him then he will have something that he can you know sell to the rest of the regime and you know it's important to remember there is this whole class of leaders in in north korea behind him i thought it was interesting in the run up to the summit that he fired a couple of the top generals with which you know many thought as an indication that not not everybody is really on board with this plan but you know clearly he's the man in control he and his sister and they're they're pushing this through and i don't think that they would have embarked on this course and gone this far if they they were really willing to give something up interesting how similar is the situation in korea today to the situation in germany back in the one nine hundred
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eighty s. the late one nine hundred eighty s. it was a tough question but i'm very interested in what you have to say. i was very young and. it is in germany we have talked about the amount of actually. the situation is very different in my point of view so it can all mclay speaking politically speaking we cannot compare the two systems and also with regard of nuclear weapons and the role of nuclear weapons or also the international alliance structure was completely different if we compare it to germany to korea today ever what i would still. like to promote or. keep in mind is that the german example as well as the vietnamese example show that there is hope even for cases that's maybe similar to cases which seemed desperate and without hope and the perspective perspective that we have now that the talks and the dialogue
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continues with concrete trust building. measures for example with the bodies of the remnants of the korean war being moved repatriated which means talks and meetings will continue this prospect of so i think it gives. truly hope to have a process or even just the final word more or less to do the people of north and south korea will reunification do they still want reunification if they want reunification because we had a provisional election yesterday and out of seventeen provinces fourteen provinces have voted for that the democratic party which is the part of the president won and this shows how much support are given by the citizens of korea for the reunification process and the peace to reach him and i really want to say that we really have to know north korea whether or not you know we have to accept that we don't know north korea about we don't know about north korea that much because we
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are only watching the news that are filtered by the media and by the by the majorities so we have to listen carefully of what really north korea wants and what they really want to pursue pursue and this is the only way that we can step toward peace and this is what i really want to say i once was a fellow journalist walked along the berlin wall and we were looking at it and wondering whether it would disappear in our lifetimes and each of us said well maybe if we're very lucky indeed within a year richard go on how soon do you think we might see a reunion in south korea and north korea in your in your lifetime all right before i pass away i want to be there in if occasion process of course but i think it's very thankless if we make it too quick because we have to have something that's before we make the real being unification we have to make it peaceful ok thanks very much all very few for joining me here today to talk about the singapore summit great stuff you've enjoyed the show as much as i have to come back next week and so
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