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tv   Quadriga - Right- Wing Protest in Chemnitz What is the Root of this Hate  Deutsche Welle  August 31, 2018 8:30am-9:01am CEST

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what is so clear will be to control the british watch with politically open question makers carrousel with the first off. everybody was wrong to want to tweak the new reality that the whole thing might blow up in the face of a system that strong out of control. will be able that will. cause everything. you crush the investment bank lehman brothers start september thirteenth on d w. hello and welcome to quadriga this week germans witnessed street clashes that reminded some of the mob violence that paved the way for the nazis ninety years ago right wing demonstrators rampage through the streets of the eastern city of chem that's on sunday putting down people they believed to be immigrants thousands
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assembled once again on monday and clashed with counter protesters local police and political leaders were clearly overwhelmed critics called their reaction too little and too late the mass violence was triggered by the murder early sunday morning of a german allegedly at the hands of two middle eastern asylum seekers right wing protest in cam that's what is the root of this hate that is our topic today on quadriga it's a pleasure to introduce our guests and we welcome karen taylor she's an expert on racism she's a member of the s.p.d. and heads its committee on migration and diversity and she says as long as germany does not deal with its racism problem more people will be hunted down because of their race and not only in camps and it's great to have my colleague hans pfeiffer on the show he works for us. expert on right wing extremism and he says germany is
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facing a constitutional crisis politicians and citizens increasingly ignore the basic principles of germany's core values and finally we're pleased to welcome back to the program mountain laming he's a commentator for the daily newspaper. and he says the events in cannes this are shocking and disgusting but by and large and especially in a european perspective germany coped with the refugee crisis quite well more than three hundred thousand migrants to found a job unemployment is low the welfare system is strong. so welcome to all of you and hans if you would i'd like to start with what happened as far as we know the facts how do we go from a night time stabbing to this kind of an escalation to mass violence and posses hunting down immigrants in the streets well be as soon as the news was spread it that somebody was killed and that the through
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social media people got the information that it probably could have been to refugees committing the crime which is now on the proof of the authorities as soon as this happened they had been in security in the population and spread the discussion about about violence about refugees as soon as this started and as this as soon as this happened the the the mobilization started through like through citizens of the city but especially through right wing groups right wing organizations and they spread the news precisely to the affiliated groups also in other parts of germany trying to mobilize. well it's a mix of the mop of the far right and demonstrators to protest in the city and what then was taking place that
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a mixture of emotions in this city because of the crime together with well organized neo nazis from all over germany kind of taking over the city and what happened was not spontaneous what was taking place in the city it was this well organized scheme we have observed in many other conflicts in cities wherever is something terrible happened which was which was used by organized neo nazi groups for their propaganda motive given the role of social media in escalating this and in steering it what you say actually this is something that could have taken place anywhere it just happened to become it's because that's where the stabbing occurred. i would say these are two different questions is it something that is typical for the eastern part in germany or with the role of the social medias i think social media fuels things very fast because social media
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instantaneously gives informations even wrong informations it was even said in the beginning the man who was murdered wanted to help a german girl from from the immigrants and so on all these things which which it was actually false and the police has no proof of that but these kings if these things are spread through the social media things are happening very very fast and i would say the demonstrations on sunday were indeed most fontayne you see them planned on monday on the monday there was a totally different affair they agreed completely that was not spontaneously this was organized it happened in the east because that uses a special place for these things i would say that. immigrant. sentiment in the east in part like in the west or in all over europe the state lost control of the borders crime is high unemployment goes the way. first state is is ruined or something like this but there's a special eastern component to this this is a this has to do with d.d.
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our history with the civil war rhetoric they're using we other people the same rhetoric they used when they brought down the communist regime so i think the anti-communism thirty years ago transformed into anti-establishment anti immigrant movement by now. karen same question to you essentially the local authorities did say that neo nazis right wing groups poured in from all over germany your initial statement talked about racism in places far beyond candidates would you say that in fact this could have taken place elsewhere as well or do you see a unique local element in this very very real and violence i think this could have happened anywhere but the amount of violence which we see in kemet and which which we specially see and saxony is kind of the wrist stick for this state because we
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have authorities we have local politicians who deny the existence of neo nazi groups the existence of the high amount of racism within the state we have some statement from the president of the state who is in completely deny so i belief that it's a linked to this lack off realisation of what disk happening in his own in his own state on the other side asa say that we have a main problem in germany a satchel to talk about racism to talk about institutional racism to talk about racism and as long as we close our eyes for this reality i think this will happen can happen anywhere i want to come back to the political response and to politics a bit later but for now let us start by hearing some voices from ken that's itself how do the citizens see these events and the role of their city. an interesting trip are disappointed in damage that is of course not all sound but the reactions
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were to the right wing. to him is his change for the worse to me going to give you and i'm not part of the office i don't want anyone to think i am going to find standing here. there's trouble here every evening confronting each other i don't want to see is that it's only a foreigner who you can't go into the city anymore without worrying about something happening to you in front of him. this could always time said that this is happening here it's getting out of hand you feel unsafe going to the city as an ordinary citizen starts to pee in. hands to what degree is right wing zina phobia beginning to penetrate the mainstream becoming acceptable even to people to citizens who might think of themselves as absolutely middle of the road. i think it's really popular right at the moment but i'm not really surprised of what's going on because i think it was never absent these racist
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sentiments in the society have never been away and we faced like like this in the ninety's in germany we had major tex by right wing terrorist groups which were supported also by part of the mainstream even in the in the eighty's and seventy's with facing a long tradition. of a lack of empathy with the victims of these rights of these far right so this is why i would think it's not surprising that they are that strong but i would think that right at the moment what makes the situation quite even dangerous for the society is that there is kind of a mix of a combination of those who like activist right wing activists with citizens and. that they're quite a lot of normal citizens normal like they're not all guys they. from the neighborhood and they don't feel any trouble to to march against refugees
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against the government side by side with people. and this is i think it's not new but it's becoming more and more dangerous karen surveys showed service taken this week after the events in kennett showed that a majority of germans condemn the violence condemn what happened there but not a majority of people who support the right wing a.f.d. party which is very strong in this particular region of germany would you say that the a.f.d. which is now present in the bundestag is it essentially normalizing these right wing zina phobic views definitely definitely have seen it if they can that's the f.t. who actually called for the first gathering on sunday to mourn the person who died not only to mar and this person but also to show show the amount of rage
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and anger towards immigrants or so-called immigrants so we've seen it in candidates but we also see it into bundestag to set the language has changed we also see with the other parties during the election campaign last year in germany that not only is on the complete right but also with the other parties we have to name that say the we also have to name the s.p.d. when it comes to writ rhetorics so i think it's very dangerous that the f.d.a. has set. level a standard which is slow and not protecting migrants on minorities and germany i think. i want to say one thing because i think it's very important that this movement is not only anti migrant it's it's a major part of the their their beliefs but it's far more than just and to my god because they are posing a liberal society where people we're talking about they are not my group. they'd just people of different color maybe it's the grand grandfather and parents that migrated to germany so they're not migrants anymore only by law or by whatever
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statistic and this is what makes it so dangerous they are opposing part of the german citizens just because they have a different belief they have a different religion and where this makes it we're going to hear exactly that a bit later on. when i come back to those particular voices we heard two people saying they don't feel secure on the streets of their city do you have sympathy for that sense of insecurity that was expressed there it was very clear that the police and candidates were absolutely overwhelmed by what happened and completely adequately prepared the police and sunday evening were five hundred ninety one police officers confronting six thousand right wing demonstrators protesters and left wingers as well who protesters anti-fascists against them so they were really . estimating the level of organizing that was
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shown by by by the right wing or anti immigrant on the street so i think that was a failure of state a failure of of having a clear picture of what happened in their own town this is one thing the other thing is. no i don't have sympathy for them there is something that i mean if the couple of months more than one million refugees of pouring into a country then i think a certain kind of level being concerned about the impacts is quite normal we see it in every european state sexily borders poland mongery both are governed by you by right wing populist parties and if you. italy and austria and scandinavian countries and the success of le pen in france and so on so on there is a kind of non german aspects to it is a european as. back to this. i would say these are normal but the facts don't come close crime rate is at its lowest level since unification of germany. the the
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the surplus the budget is going up and up unemployment hasn't risen it has decreased since the influx of german so all these things have to be a communicated to the public and i think that's a lack of the the government they don't do it as strongly as they could. a lot of people have been saying in the wake of the candidates events that that surplus in the budget should be dedicated much more to supporting the security services we have seen persistent cuts in police budgets all over germany in recent years would you say looking at what happened in cannes that's that the failings of the police were material in the sense of being understaffed tactical or political. i think well they are understaffed i think. would not like to be a policeman and sexily because they all have in all the different states and to me
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they have problems with being quite badly stuff but i think it's a political problem at its core and that's because we've seen so many places where quite similar situations where started to to grow or to come up but police managed pretty well too to control the situation because they had a better they had a better reaction or get a political reaction because they said we have to do everything we can to get situation under control and if and that's what police read in the social media as well as donors because we're all sitting in our office reading social media like oh my god look at all these wiping groups they are mobilizing all over germany this will be really tough let's send our reporters to come it's because it will be the day of violence and so it's hard to believe that the police was not following these all these accounts so i would say it's a it's a wrong political decision because they are not aware and they don't have the
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empathy that's what i would think the they have a leg of empathy with the troubles new nazis could make because mostly they are not they are not the target of that and they might be under stuff but they always could have asked the federal police for help exacted fact we do have some indications that the police and other officials at least in saxony may themselves be susceptible to right wing extremist views acase interest and has been making headlines in august at a demonstration by the anti immigrant group protesting chancellor angela merkel's refugee policy demonstrator asked police to prevent a television crew from filming from telling him the police honored his demand and then it emerged that demonstrated was a member of the sac. the state criminal police who just happen to be taking part in the protest in his free time karen taylor would you say there is
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a major problem with too much proximity between some members of the police at least in this is turn region of germany and right wing groups themselves definitely we've seen it with the terrorist cell the group which wasn't discovered by the state police to but rather discovered itself we've seen it with this example just shown here and i would say if we talk about security we often also have to talk about the security of people who are not white in this country because if there's a lack of security right now there's definitely a lack of security in candidates for me their so-called no go areas everywhere in this country even in berlin and a couple of germany so i believe if we talked about lack of empathy out say it's a lack of protecting basic human rights for people who are. living in this country
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so that is one of the major major issues here but then again in chemist's and also sex in itself we've already talked about that this development from coming from. g d r which was kind of enclosed if we also look about that at the numbers there not so many migrants there not so many people of color this is the region where we have the fewest exactly foreign residents pro-capitalist that seems like an enormous paradox can you explain the researched yeah it's a basic. income. migration at its low that those. are racist thoughts. you can maybe explain it with dinner talking with said if there is no contact there is fear. so i guess it's also and then again this being part of a political party i say to politicize have great responsibility here we live in
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a globalized economy globalized world of cost migration and diversity is it's every day life so to to protrude that germany is white and coast and coast country is just wrong so we need to change this this rhetoric about us being protected by everything which happens around us and rather be honest to ourselves and say yeah migration is a reality and we will have people coming in and out of the country briefly to two points for a route of might be special in saxony and the east of germany first of all with the forty years of g.d. our government rules there how was national socialism taught in schools as a western affair has nothing to do with judea history nothing to do with eastern history the nazis were part of the western society not of the east so this i think
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caused a tremendous the lack of understanding for the roots of racism the national socialism these things the second point is sort of guarantee the influx of refugees were in the fall of two thousand and fifteen because the german government asked all the germans for for help and for support and show solidarity with these people showing solidarity from bottom up was part of the g.d.r. referee so dirty with other communist russians cubans and so on and so on so they got this sort of they are anti solidarity feelings because they were forced to show solidarity in the first place to thirty years ago perhaps the one of the paradoxical aspects is to see in a region that had been communist a swing to a kind of german nationalist thinking that many people assumed was long over. let's take a look at one more incident that occurred in the region of saxony last week and the right wing identity tarion movement held
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a festival interest in our colleague abdul karim was there he spoke with activists and other visitors at the event and ultimately became a target of racism himself. much to death i don't want germany to stay germany and light i said what does that mean how does this that's not it means what i said if you don't understand that that's your problem then you've got a big problem then i want to encode this because i'm an immigrant you're going to kazan you're just a german citizen. but not a german or part of german society or the german people just walk. some dodge of my point of view you don't belong to the german people in this village the camera on i know this works or veto have doesn't work explain so it's. kind of only what you can even broadcast of it you know what if you don't like it here then it all somewhere you like better just against the dog it was it wasn't it up out the back where you came from. it's interesting to hear one of the
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speakers in that incident deprecating german citizenship essentially saying you are only a german citizen it is troublingly reminiscent for many of us of that old blood and soil idea of what it means to be a german and this is why i think that we have a constitutional crisis because these voices they have a strong voice now the parliament of germany with a far right if b. and they becoming more and more popular and they could even win elections in some regions in germany and because they start to to bring up this this topic that like like blaming germans as not german just because of this skin color just because of their name just because they have doc or whatever just because of their religion that they start to to disfavor them to other germans and that they that they separate and i think this is really dangerous is if those people who have started
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this will get the power it will do the laws then then we will see a different journey than we have nowadays carry this week the u.n. commissioner for human rights expressed his enormous dismay over what was happening in kemet sense said he wants to see a much stronger response and real action from politicians all over europe but also in germany now we have heard some strong words from german leaders this week but what specifically do they need to do more and i'm asking you also as a member of. the social democratic party which is one of the parties that is governing in saxony what would you want to see your party doing that it's not doing now. several things parties should do. like to talk about representation if you look at the different political parties in germany they don't really represent the
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people in germany because if you look at them it's mostly white and mostly met male so we need to foster and need to start with talking to the people who belong to this country as well and in order to foster them and push them into political responsibility this is one major major issue we have with all the political parties including the s.p.d. and other thing is we need to talk about racism not only in the connection off neo nazis and right wing extremism but really talk about the issue as such see racism as a structural problem as a problem of problem of privilege just for one part of the country and disadvantages for the other country and for the other part so we really need to talk about what it means to actually taco racism and not only right wing extremism that's another part and the third thing i would suggest is to really look at these
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yeah look at these cells really look at these areas in germany which are troubled we don't want to put all of. germany into one pot but it's not a coincidence that is this has been happening again and again in saxony so we really need to look at these different southward do you fault the s.p.d. leaders in saxony for not taking a stronger stand i mean we see t.d. or leadership in saxony so for that yes i do blame that leadership definitely thank you very much. plans to sentences what the politicians need to do that. doing now though so strong we have to point out to a successful self-interest. of many many refugees in work in labor. and languages and things like that and then they don't have to give them the chance to show themselves to be pro drumming up anti german small. policies have to strengthen its appalled those in those small little rural parts of germany for twelve cosying this
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violence will pose in the fall right into opposing racism. thank you very much to all of you for being with us and thanks to you have to. see you sanjay.
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frankfurt airport city managed by from a bought. this is the abuse live from berlin right wing protesters are gathering again in the east german city of chemist's. com the rally passed off peacefully with no repeat of the violence seen earlier in the week but the situation remains tense with groups from both the right and the last ready to take to the streets again in the coming days.

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