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tv   Business - DW Debate from the Sustainable Development Impact Summit in New York  Deutsche Welle  October 3, 2018 5:15pm-6:00pm CEST

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letter we were. when we won it now eighty percent of americans and some people in our lives will experience hardship that i listen to. it's.
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a low in a very warm welcome to the do it savella debate at the world economic forum sustainable development impact summit in new york i'm sorry kelly today we're having a look at what should be done in an increasingly unstable geo political environment in order to achieve the united nations sustainable development goals which aim to promote peace wipe out poverty and protect the planet by the year twenty thirty how can security strategies be better aligned with those development goals the challenges are great issues like climate change are increasingly seen as exacerbating conflict as communities clash over vital resources sometimes even being displaced. well look at the challenges and possible solutions joining me now
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i have a very distinguished panel the c.e.o. of the world bank christine ago gave up the secretary general of the organization for security and cooperation in europe thomas cramming. the president of the enter american development bank luis are there tomorrow. and the african union special envoy on women peace and security in teddie up thank you so much to all of you for joining us here today ladies and gentlemen please let's give our panel is very warm welcome thank you now before we can talk about possible solutions i just like to get all of your assessments of the current situation because the united nations says the following about violent conflict it says that the number of global conflicts that reach the threshold of war that's more than one thousand people per year dying because of battle battle deaths has more than tripled in the past decade and christina i'd
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like to turn to you now because we know that the world bank that your mission is really to to lift people out of extreme poverty those people are increasingly living in conflict prone areas. what worries you the most about the state of security in development right now i would add to this treaty the very significant concern one is that in the world we can celebrate the. extreme poverty over the last twenty five years a staggering one point one billion people. out of poverty in say world. in sub-saharan africa and in other parts of the middle east in particular that the conflict affected extreme poverty
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is growing and it is growing with a troubling speed so if we have to meet this goal of end the extreme poverty we have to worry about peace and security first and foremost secondly we need to recognize that when there is a conflict then many other problems that are very severe for example but they mix right now in the democratic republic of congo there is yet another. way. and what is on the way of stopping war. what we can see is that this. lack of security ease hitting people was in twice and three times and the third thing that worries us tremendously is what you mention the beginning vulnerability to climate change
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countries that have. least to contribute to climate change very often. the most to suffer the consequences of it and yet we are not balancing investing in mitigation which is hugely important we also investing in the station so conflicts what they do for helped like a federal case sion lack of social services and climate then when you have this poisonous cocktail then the result these children we mean men with lifes. they have a stake and i'd like to perhaps a bit later we can talk a little bit more high about how you address that potential devastation but first i'd like to turn to you thomas because as
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a regional security organization the o.s.c. a has been verily very heavily involved right now in eastern ukraine where we're seeing the tensions between russia and the west on full display and so i'd like to ask you what concerns you about security and development right now but as you say violent conflict has come back to europe that. there are now in the fifth year of. this conflict. and this is very much top of our agenda and you know you see. because it creates tremendous suffering. practically on a daily basis it kills people civilians combatants but it also undermines very severely trust and confidence among. the
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key stakeholders of your dancing in duration security luis alberto that to turn to you now because we know that your bank is one of the large or rather the largest long term lender in latin america and the caribbean what are your concerns about security and development how do you see it progressing right now in your region that teena marie kahn there went the period of in the nineteenth eighties which was to be denominated as the last pick because this was a time when you found many countries restructuring their it's very low growth weeks we've been a country seen recession for long periods of time and there must have been during that period alone. then or to a financial crisis. the paradox is that during that time the crime rates were far lower than they are today in fact latino america today which has roughly about eight percent of the world's population has roughly forty percent of
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the homosexuals. and that it's a very astonishing number and if you look at it you know it just between the year two thousand and now it's almost in the last twenty years it's almost going to have median this which is you just to put it in comparisons that's five times the number of people who have lost their lives in this syrian civil war or twenty five times that of iraq so this is probably the most difficult issue latin american governments have to they in fact when you review what you know to be called polls are done much of the focus of people is not about jobs about their economic situation but rather it's about issues of security and he's around the issues of transparency and so as a result we as a bank have have got you know to participate in this we cannot do as of the vellum banking surrounding the fence but certainly everything around you know helping to
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create citizenship helping to work with the police forces in how they are mother nice in working with communities in working with the way people are put in jail how you know the whole recent population is dealt with but this is a very serious issue and certainly it's an issue that is yes across the emerging world but nothing us acute as it happens in that the american. in times like to turn. to answer this next question because we know that you focus on women peace and security on the african continent you're very much often the voice of the voiceless. what keeps you up at night with think about security and development i think it's. i have spent most of my life in conflict is on because. you know when we took a bite conflict the first continent you look at is africa unfortunately
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but i also say that when you talk about this gee you don't know if the face of african women or a young african man that's the reality so for me is that when i wake up and i see the people suffering i say ts something can be done something can be done when we look at. this nexus between discussing between peace security and development for me in the middle there the human being let me give you one or two example. i recently visited. last year i went to nigeria northern nigeria this year with. i mean my met the prettiest g. we did a joint mission to go to lake chad question we did take joined michel we went cold
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or so to see other places like chad but also. and the situation of the people the young people and the women in those camps to see what needs to be done. those country are really investing as i could see lectured by sand or decide. they are investing a lot on the military and when we look at the military they're little they happen to be four percent of their g.d.p. should be invested what then that one to people needs the men who was the one supposed to be in the mix and bringing the fish
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and selling it outside their job means no longer because it doesn't bring in anything so you found them and roll with a whole book kwara because they don't find job they are no longer in the lake and the women that don't want what did need a small boat so we need to invest in development seriously and investment i'm not just saying just give them the small investment like we see poverty and divisions traffic it that we used to see but real investment because a really investment for me is just country half sun i say and victory city bring them light because we can do that. is forcible good if you invest money on that you first check. and this new technology and this is something that i think that we want to explore further in
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our conversation also i think it's there there there is currently investment i know that germany and france for example investing in the region involved there but first we'd like to actually turn to a poll that we conducted on twitter we actually wanted to gauge the mood and see perhaps what was important also for others when it comes to. what do you think is most important to create global political stability and here were the answers check this out forty percent of people said empowered civil society. a lemon percent of people said strong diplomatic ties and forty nine percent said global economic stability and into i mean really to your point you're talking about investment and i'd also like to ask you about that because i mean that that's also very much what you do how do you see global economic stability create contributing
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to political stability perhaps you can give us some examples of some success stories where you've seen it work and how perhaps those lessons can be applied and extrapolated upon well it's certainly going to mix the believe the rule towards all other forms is that we lead the country that is in recession creates tremendous distress its own society the big many years to call it this is where i was saying earlier about the the decade of the two got a long long time until societies were able to bring trust back again so it's critical to have not only the economic stability but the also society and the wider society to the believing and trusting institutions and this is i think probably the biggest that we have to be i think knowledge ease a we can all command make governments far more transparent but this more and more
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it's made empowered citizens and i see it you know certainly around the in america that they'll sell a form cellphone penetration in the numbers of smartphones people to the have no boundaries through their pick through the technology that they are offered and as a result they want to learn more and there is a huge demand for knowledge but at the same time there is still a lot of lack of trust in institutions where there's the lack of trust come by lee from crime partly from corruption and this is at the heart of what creating the. sense of unity that societies need the powers both economic growth and equally strong you know she would say so you've got a technology there and you bought product trust and thomas perhaps i can ask you because we've actually same technology as a tool in eastern ukraine for example very powerful one in order to promote this
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information for example and so i'm wondering what opportunities you might see to build trust. all i think should start begin a serious attempt to listen to each other try to understand acknowledge differences . identify areas where interest converge and then try to cooperate on those areas. where we see this converging interests and so try to rebuild trust and confidence in then but of course at some point in time in this state suspend back to were ukraine devo have to also come to terms beat these situations if he wants to. systematically. tackle this distrust issue i want to talk a little bit more about moving beyond crisis response to also talking about crisis
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prevention and turn to you. because selena how do you promote that culture as a leader what the. obvious statement is that. to have a conflict prevented. in human suffering an economic cost is much better than to have to lift treat the economic case is very clear one dollar in prevention sixteen dollars say in the economy but then the question is how can we build this culture of prevention and it goes to two things one the concentration of financial resources in countries that are lingering at the brink of
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a conflict and the determination to stay engaged be there there is simply no substitute for that could reach of conviction and find nation resources to be paired with this courage of convictions that could make the difference between a conflict exploding and a conflict actually receding we have seen that happening we also have seen seen the. creaky colley the different parties coming together and this is my second point it is about partnerships of course your screen told the something that is a fact the play. they have to be people that luckily they feel strongly about achieving peace right and that even gauge with the empowerment of bottom up civil society organizations we mean corporate thieves this is hugely important but then
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we need to have the development community the human he thought and community and political security community all coming together we have been for far too long fragmented you would have the development cycle actors people like me who say let's see when the conflict is over we will come and do a very good development and then we'll cut the humanitarian community that is they're struggling but i would say this development people they really don't to stand in security we have no space for that kind of fragmentation we ought to come together and also benefit from new technologies that actually a louse to see invisible to pick up what comes from social media as a signal that something is going wrong then you could better have put to sea world bank saying we invest on people. we don't help on the infrastructure
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we don't just support the member state but you have to invest some to people because even if you want to prevent i think that is where we had that missing link and that's where investment should be when we talk about and i talk about energy because i think we need to be up there west to talk about the investment in really investment bring them lie to all investment bring water to the people investment how do you do that though in some areas where you might have bad governance for example how do you get around that you know i was listening to the debate this year of the head of state fifty five who say that we are going to fight corruption so i said my good yes they will fight corruption but let's empower the
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people because he empowered the people lead the people will be the one custody and of that policy that they have side and it's great that they did meet and say we are going to fight corruption and signed the policy but the accountability mechanism you should put it in the people of the in the hands of the people the women and the young they will be demanding and we did media and now you can ask the chair when you can go out and talk about accountability so empower the people and that is where the difference even when we talk about prevention i have seen now in africa when we have come to elections so much violence into our election not just africa but elsewhere how do we want to prevent those is give the tools empower them help them see make sure that this civic action be part of the parcel of that they
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will come facing. in the clinton and tell us a little bit more about women being involved in that process how important is that and how do you see progress on that as an issue you know. i always say that when you give to power to do women you can see the difference. great difference because you putting an object around you bring our own issues we bring our humanity well i'm not saying that the men are not because we need to be working together and the man's but they're the women not the one that guardian of the society especially in our culture enough ical so i think the message that i'm hearing is that more can be done if we are working together and therefore. lose money and i like to ask you what examples are you seeing in your region do you see opportunities for n.g.o.s private sectors governments even different regions for
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example because obviously there's a lot to be learned from latin america as well to work together more the question on there is actually around n.g.o.s and foundations here in this year through the shrub foundation we have worked very closely and basically highlighting those people who are doing great work you know there's a lot of social innovation that's the completely left in america things like the so-called conditional kustra for programs which were focused on the notion that you have kids who were you know were in the labor market and their age. with government programs basically focus of the fact that not only do you want good health for their children their mother suspension but equally to transfer money from the government such that the completed high school programs and through that there's been a lot of. social innovation taking place for instance a big movement led by disney says in many countries to improve the quality of
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creation to do it in you seeing you know really you know open classrooms ways where you can have what they call reverse classrooms for the children do their homework in the class with the teacher on then. hear through months of online courses different. parts of the teacher training. so there's a lot of things that have happened in a whole host of areas where there's been a lot of social innovation in the area for instance of micro credit lots of things have happened there in the ways of how to monetize and turn remittances which we are probably one of the regions of the world that received the largest amounts of remittances and i'm talking here hispanics or latino americans living outside of that in america be the united states of europe so it is around programs like these working with the civil society the we have found very successful problems and we do
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work and do a lot of effort to reach out to those groups to bring them along side programs that we're doing with government do you find that you have enough dialogue go with other religions with other organizations would you like to see more of that for example because i mean you're highlighting some success stories here right i think that you know people might be interested in that no definitely and we certainly you know we we work a lot across course with the world bank but equally with regional development banks for instance we're doing helping supporting something that africa their own bank is doing in trying to bring investment into the african continent we're bringing a good group of loving americans to be far from the in focus for energy there's a lot of renewable energy solutions that have been developed in that in america so certainly you know looking at everything that has been done for instance around the location in asia others of tremendous amount of expertise there are things that have been done around the areas of logistics again from asia bring those
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experiences to live in america so these kind of cross-fertilization across not only holy holy cities but equally how different groups who are in this space can work together in a fascinating assessment of how it's working on the development fund thomas i'd like to turn with now to ask you how it's working on the security front. it was of collaboration in terms of seamlessness because i was recently listening to general john allen the former coalition commander in afghanistan speaking and he really emphasized to this seamless as that is necessary the communication between development and security how the two go hand in hand are intertwined and it's difficult to make meaningful progress on one without the other do you think that we are getting better at that today is that communication getting better i would certainly very much support this i think it was late secretary of coffee on that set that there is no security without if you will up and in no
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develop. security i think that is. definitely. very true and. we have a comprehensive approach of security so so kind of we have started leaving that from really day song if you look at the helsinki final act of nine hundred seventy . five you kind of. realize that we have a security concept that he's faced on the long and. hard security but then also an economic in my own mental. aspects. and then. the human rights rule of law them a craft that can secure shin's and i think that shows this. already. many years ago show says brooch off trying
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to interlink security and and development i want to talk now about money. funding how you achieve the sustainable development goals and with that i'd like to turn to you christina because i know that you used to ryan. the budget in europe for humanitarian efforts. and right now and you perhaps you know the numbers a little bit better than i do so please forgive forgive me if i don't have them exactly. right now is something in the hundreds of billions the cost of achieving the sustainable development goals i know it's a big poster outside it said that it was seven built trillion a year that's a very big gap isn't it. a huge gap it is also a tremendous opportunity for those of us who work in development finance to rethink how we use the billions and it has become a popular slogan for
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a reason turning from billions to trillions by using public money to create the enabling environment for private investments to flaw we have this interesting solvable problem on one hand we have in the hands of people businesses countries trillions in savings that those sitting idle i was just so surprised that cash that we keep home or under the mattress maybe in some cases total some five trillion dollars. so the question the solvable problem is to create the incentive and the. platform for this money to flow into the developing world what is necessary for that well there this is not
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a. miracle it is very straightforward one you need in countries policies that give investors certainty that they invest what they best in is not going to be nationalized. bone it's. lost so bad it's very important for countries to do to create that certainty for the investor too we need good projects we need projects that you can actually see from the beginning of from beginning to end how we destructuring what would it do how it is going to be procured and implemented and then three we need to have the confidence of the people in the countries that this investor is not going to come and just rip them
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off so in the end when you look at it it is all about trust and conditions for many to move so institutions like ours the development banks we are fast transforming into a transmission lie that creates this conditions for trust we have for right now on our books at the bank seventy two projects that restructured dealing with institutional weaknesses the project itself bringing private investment including from pension funds from long term investors are we there yet. not quite i would be headed in the right direction yes for sure. but with a battle how do we get there no i look just to build on what we saw you know was
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saying another way of saying it is we basically have a platform that reaches countries in terms of their development needs but clearly there needs to be more and we need to multiply and think that we are for every dollar that we put in of our own financing that we come bringing some of the thousand some billions of dollars that are out there or trillions like you know it's eighty five dollars sitting in private pension funds managers insurance companies and the rest what we need to do is to begin to. create all of the instruments that facilitate the more we need moving through our system and i think from the perspective of the owners of those. savings there's a tremendous up in fact to do good. with your save so beyond development assistance
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you feel that the private sector is willing well i definitely think the private sector. has a tremendous interesting being in there are some issues of risks that we still need to continue to be smart in how we need to we mitigate you know are you giving a loan to a country you have for links you know in u.s. dollar denominated their dories of the local currency there's a big difference you know who takes that foreign exchange risk you know you've got to understand those risks of the private sector see which ones of those you can help me to give by using what we call blended finance which is using some of the development finance resources and with that multiply what we're doing so this is what we are all collectively wrestling with but i think we are as we said in a correctly say we're in the right direction but we're way behind where we should be i mean. if i if i if i may just to a very quick additional point so that one is examples because your sake ok is this
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really happening take solar in africa it used to be so expensive that it didn't really make economic sense but then we build this kind of platform in which we aggregate the all projects possible and we said to the private private sector here is certainty there will be consumer and there will be that minimal price and guess what the cost of delivering solar in africa has collapsed it is now so cheap that these abundant and the question is how to continue to scale it up one example to we mean so we know we mean our fan past the in terms of paying back money they borrow so we are now you know a phone could be a device to spread hate and anger but the phone can be
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a bank and well we have done is must see really increase small. credits for women and the printers and i and you can seek out that transforms communities and meg's that link between your savings and a woman in. say kenya makes that link possible and says this is for go to where the daily bravo to germany germany created the so-called compact with africa any dissolve about that good policy is more investments and into a scene not in your head or is it ok to make it a national when we're talking about the partition of germany and and i just want to mention because you recently convened i know the second forum for the africa women leaders network and this was done with the support of germany we now were talking
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a lot about what more can be done we talked about where one money could come from and i'm just wondering from your perspective also. who would you like to see more done from i mean it isn't isn't a matter of investing more in africa from from which from which areas which would like to see more when you ask me this question of. where do we want europe to come in is the building the skills of the african but also allowing african migrants to facilitate that came back in debris part of the class one mission of our continent some country have a huge growth rate many of them we could see because we are building infrastructure port it's airport and so what look also is builds the capacity of the people when it comes to as when they've come to education we did come to you name
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so this is what we need to learn from europe. so we think that europe and africa to go back to the places i have that we say that colombia issues let's go back in could be europe is known for that list also transform our industries there's more we don't have those small and medium entreprise and bear it's growing now with the young people but listen vests on that so so many calls on this stage and i'm really hearing this for just more to be done generally speaking and thomas therefore i'd like to ask you because you know as the o.s.c. eight you very much have this need to respond to crisis very quickly and there is a call right now i think it's fair to say that the o.s.c. do more vent we have thirty grow up over the year is. an impressive tool box in terms of. conflict prevention that is
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what you refer to. us or you would be reaction. we have tools for instance to prevent minority related conflict commission national minority. we have. to see in terms of preventive diplomacy that is one offer and then of course tools to manage conflict. make sure that the conflict does not spin out of control that the state people we're currently doing in the us but also you know call a cop out. in church or. insurance mr but then you also try to bring these conflicts closer to resolution here you need tools on the one hand but you also need political parties if you want to resolve
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these conflicts in ten thirty. we have also tools that i would argue fall into the category of peace building. and that is very much if you are going to building strong institutions democratic institutions. in the area of the rule of law. which again i think then concept you to an enabling environment for economic activities for investment that is the goal we see on offer at the end of the day it depends on what we're trying some participating states to call on these tools that you cannot impose particularly not. the conflict management tools on the anybody so it's a matter of political will in building up political will as well and ladies and gentlemen i'd just like to say that for our session i would like to leave us on a positive note perhaps we don't have so much time left but in the time left that
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we do have i like to ask all of our catalyst two questions what's on your wish list and what do you think that we can achieve together this year. in terms of security and development so wish lest what can we achieve this year this is our action plan because we're moving from crisis for spawn's to crisis prevention because selina number one on my wish list is conflicts are often protracted they they flare they can and they flare again our attention tends to be short span fixes so they focus for as long as he thinks so they can be sustainable peace well just kind of building on the same i think the fundamental issues that sometimes we know
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problems are happening and we're slow in reacting to. and as we are slow in reacting to them they only get worse of saying the same in a different way what we said you know was improved speed so differently the speed we have for instance might now be humanitarian crisis in venice will be believing and going throughout the hemisphere of the world bank that are fascinating fun to support people who are going largely from syria to jordan and to live with you know this is a the big problem the more you let it fester the more these problems become big and secondly i think the capacity to do good that focus we actually of governments to deal with these problems becomes essential what can we achieve within the next year i hope that we can continue to keep this focus on the need. these development issues you really have to think out of the box but work together
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thomas i'd like to ask you what's on your wish list what you think we can achieve in the political leadership. political leaders that are ready to reinvest in a rule based global order being strong multilateral institutions into what's on your wish list my wish is to make sure that all african member state have a plan of action i started with twenty two with if i am able to get war african women people countries women contributing being part of mediation in prevention women leaders in all spheres of life i think we will get there so my wishes to make sure that that agenda of women peace and security is a widespread in africa and on that positive note i would like to say i hope that we've provided
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a bit of insight today on the importance of security and development and i think that we have some hopeful message messages that we are. believe with today you've been watching the dutch avella debate at the world economic forum in new york many thanks to our panelists here today and we do hope for progress on these issues thank you q. thank. you. what if these borders came back. what does it mean for the people who live and work here. for example cut off shabaan in northern ireland from lizard in the republic of ireland it's bringing back memories of painful times what happens if customs barriers come down again.
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in germany thirteen w. . the armed forces are under pressure they're battling recruiting. outdated and broken down equipment and limited budgets. the challenge is a huge lesson was not enough planes are not enough transport helicopters are not enough tanks we have ten divisions that don't have tanks. so don't sourcing and privatization are the order of the day in all areas but that can pose dangers. every day that a war goes on private sector businesses making money with everything from reconnaissance drones two hundred facilities firms are training forces field france
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and germany. material just real complex starts are two. twenty years on t.w. . this is the news line from violating their five days on survivors of indonesia's earthquake battle first hunger and trauma i'm scared to go inside a house by myself i only go with my parents if they're not with me i won't go in there so much to the death toll from the quake and tsunami now what more than fourteen hundred correspondent visits.

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