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tv   Interview - Andreas Rodder There is a new fear of Germany.  Deutsche Welle  November 18, 2018 3:02am-3:15am CET

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here's what's coming up. on clone late is the superhero on a mission to change tactics smart women smart talks smart street and legend isn't buying o'neill's mentality brain creasing doing dangerous stuff. made . and until yesterday it is one of the world's leading contemporary historians and today we want to discuss a potential new fear of germany with him mr herder during a recent speech in brussels a polish politician said he fears a germany that doesn't lead more than one that does is there a new fear of germany and the. gift of his annoying angst and.
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escaped i know nor there is a new fear of germany which is also an old fear of germany with new demands of being made of the country and these demands are pushing germany into dilemma. the quote by poland's foreign minister you just mentioned you would never have heard anybody particularly not somebody from poland say that before nine hundred ninety. there's this new demand for germany to lead within europe but that puts germany in a dilemma because if it assumes a position of power old fears about germany wanting supremacies and europe will rise again this is the new fear which is actually a fear dating back to the nineteenth century or before. and which germany's european neighbors have felt for at least two hundred years or. so i mean distance five hundred beneath the healing up act the can how can germany resolve this tense relationship with germany must take other european countries position
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into account and also take their perception of germany and to account germany must also not look like the power politics necessary for europe to be a powerful global player. and chido for automatically this is a necessary balancing act and one of the greatest challenges for political leaders but also probably the in trying to hold hold or for political furor. minister had another minister speaking in brussels actually addressed precisely that challenge and said germany will have to lead from the center how could that work early because that by the to be honest i'm not quite sure what this leadership from the center main wants germany has to learn to be respectful of its neighbors while at the same time carrying out the necessary leadership duties. i'm not sure where the center comes in. to design that and you say germany must carry out its leadership duties but also that it would be problematic. if it did so to
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assertively almost all top level officials and brussels pulling the strings a german that greatly upset some member states that i know. is that what germany wants to be a sort of behind the scenes puppet master that includes defend something you should have thought they thought the child would absolutely say at the most important level to which germany is showing political leadership lines beyond national interests in fact it even extends beyond the european union. or because the big question is how will europe treat the u.k. after breaks it would be for this isn't an e.u. issue we need to see germany as a nation probably together with france negotiating with the u.k. you fucked off this far i think the coup because the u.k. is not going to disappear from europe. rather europe can only be a strong global player if it has a constructive relationship with the u.k.
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construct he was for her to cause put up in that type and back when germany was politically more peripheral that it tried to convince the benelux countries of its interests so that they would push them on the agenda of that strategy worked back then is that the right concept for the future or is germany allowed to be self-confident in expressing its wishes and setting its agenda as the time that i get into setting and the germany is not only allowed to be confident it has to be confident. but you can be confident without being inconsiderate towards this notion that germany must always be subtle and can't just be forthright in its demands no one in europe still thinks that the use of force or the globe to anybody in the whole part about death that it leads to trouble take the two recent examples when germany as you know in political leadership within europe and the eurozone crisis and the refugee crisis in the summer of two thousand and fifteen both times upon.
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little course was taken that was set by germany and both times that caused big big trouble and massive anti german sentiment quickly flared up so how can this work. in there well germany made a grave mistake during the refugee crisis and that was to vote by majority in the european council to force countries to accept a quota of refugees against their will i don't think. that was seen as dictatorial . for the european debt crisis situation is more complicated. there are two very different versions of what happened exist within europe which are both logical to contradict each other. but on the one side there's the story told by mostly but not exclusively southern countries which says that germany reacted far too late. that you didn't want to risk it straight some place and the germans are geopolitical nationalists. on the other side we have the german version
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of exactly the same political decision is to go to the third and put the door german say that they were not liable for other countries debts but that they helped greece anyway because they're such a good european is all you have are and he is right it has them down but to add to what you said we also very quickly began seeing pictures of angela merkel with a hit the mustache coming from greece how big must the fear of germany be and what is a feed on for such a poignant images to be produced that flying low of a patient the whole of germany's neighboring countries or almost all have had some form of military conflict with germany far with dogs for greece that conflict was the world war two occupation by germany or how the. that was when those stereotypes started over violent germans with their pickle how by helmets or thora tarion and militaristic that we face and the odd thing about stereotypes is that they can resurgent any time like
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a volcano you thought was dormant which erupts again you go and work hard for the market that's how stereotypes generally work and it's exactly what we've seen happen these last years no one can doubt that's obvious did that. pitching it seems as if other european countries are no longer used to it germany that shows the same self-assurance as say france or britain or is this a test for europe often that i know. it's globin if that's the stomach that would hurt but i don't think that this has anything to do with cold war experiences manifesting themselves in the present day thought of who does all that noise so where does the fear come from well in france and france is the key partner in this context that fear dates at least as far back as the eight hundred seventy seventy want war. when france became painfully aware of the fact that it's not eastern neighbor germany or was structurally stronger. that he's talked to and then
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france had to experience that bitter truth again in both world wars. because although france was on the winning side the french knew that if they had to face germany alone they would have lost that you can dodge like specular give you what was it their child a goal said in one thousand nine hundred forty six germany stays germany more recently in the eighties france one meter are spoken about the german nuclear bomb but he was referring to the dots mark in the german central bank which shows that other countries are no longer worried about germany's military strength but about its economic power as it does that mean germany is scary because it functions too well we hear. that. east germany is and will stay europe's strongest economy in a time when economic strength is more important than military strength. so germany is the strongest party and it can't shake that wrong which is why it has to find a way to use its strength constructively and strategically within europe. or
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next world and national recent study asked europeans whether they find their country's culture superior to the neighboring countries cultures forty five percent of germans said they find their culture to be better than other europeans are we seeing a rising feeling of germans or perry or if he. had to go through. with this yes we are out of it and that's a german trait that dates back to the romantic era. in the early nineteenth century when europeans began to see themselves as nationals the french state already existed so the french could perceive themselves as a nation state however there was no unified germany at that time meaning germans initially had little choice but to find a unity through culture who told not to want for they saw themselves as a cultural nation if you will and this self image has always brought with it a tendency among germans to view themselves as culturally and morally superior and
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thought that tendency can be traced throughout the nineteenth century right up to the end of the first half of the twentieth century. in the hope that the end although the content of the old self image has changed the mechanism of perceiving oneself as culturally and morally superior remains. a good example is germany's welcome culture in autumn two thousand and fifteen that sense of being morally correct was so strong you could almost touch it leave your heart of the better one side to side with him and for that cancer we recently had the chancellor announced that she's begun what could be called a step by step political withdrawal what political legacy will under merkel leave for europe that. i'm glad merkel has hopefully on a european level angela merkel's main political activity has been crisis management from cleveland she has also always tried to unite the european institutions with
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varying degrees of success about her efforts were constant or patient institutes all of the how did she divide oh you know you're a guy in. the heart of the island she's been able to unite at least in part she managed to avoid the european institutions dismantling and separating particularly during the euro zone crisis how about in part she has also caused european division with regard to the refugee crises but i guess we'll never know the extent but several people in the u.k. said that the political decisions about refugees made in twenty fifteen helped the banks it's science when part is the part that's just directed for two so in this brics it is now that i've become mr and i as always i'd like to end our interview by asking you to complete three sentences germany yes i know quite a large and important power within europe which needs to lead constructively and with empathy part of. europe is. more than the european
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union all it is shaped by the e.u. but also by the great diversity that goes beyond it the other way now let's get on and history is. there's the eagle in the marrow we look out without saying our own reflection clearly about but that shows as backgrounds which help us to better understand our present sounds good mr herder thanks for speaking with us thank you . continental is reinventing itself. as africa's tech scene discovers it's true potential. inventors entrepreneurs and high tech professionals talk about their visions successes and day to day business to present. its entire history you know everyone has to school. he's
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a mathematician but i guess to. digital africa starts december twelfth on t.w. .


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