tv Conflict Zone - Guest Saeb Erekat Deutsche Welle December 3, 2018 12:30am-1:01am CET
to. look from syria to. the war on my for our two part documentary starts december eighth d.w. . the palestinians are deadlocked with israel and deadlocked amongst themselves so what do they do now this week in a special edition conflict zone is coming to you from the bush foreign policy forum and my guest is the veteran palestinian chief negotiator saeb erekat if you dream of an independent state ever came true what would it look like.
america welcome to conflict so. you're a reluctant peace negotiator these days how many times have you tried to resign the post you said a few years ago eight times but it's probably more now isn't it i don't have a job since two thousand and fourteen. stop the negotiations so i mean busy with my hands but the palestinians are closing doors as well. well i think it was with the americans. well nobody benefits more from opening doors with america i know what it was more. well that's why sets why president abbas told donald trump damn your money and your house be destroyed. the present set. and myself met with the president from the his team and two thousand seven hundred fifty seven. i think with all the records and then you came out with that and then all of a sudden resign from decided to take you know
a lot of the question missteps rather than. you declare grossman as was capital movember city jerusalem when he didn't say it couldn't be your capital as well did you know what he was going to say what did you set up your member what you saw of course i remember i said i was in the white house fearful of the full of number meeting with dr questionnaire and just. planning for my president to come and meet president from on december first he was not ruling out jerusalem part of your cup of you as well i'm going to tell you facts straight from mr questionnaire camorra fifty two of the somebody who supports certain from the wrong but first of december you're supposed to sign on not moving them. and you said to me you're not going to go i said then my president the best counsel you want to make my president on the phone clip from the six three make him look like he's colluding with you he said
you can do that so they can do that and if you do this you would be nice person as i was covered and you would have disqualified yourself from any at all and the best probably look at the fact remains you can't get on with this of ministration you're not going to work if you say you said they're not only brokers. you said but you've accused them of not being honest brokers over the years you've worked with many u.s. administrations who were much better disposed towards you and you couldn't do a deal with them either so you keep on waiting for someone better to come into the white house well you know you can say this and you can say that as palestinians i have organized the state of israel right to exist and live in peace and security in midst of the step at a time when the sixty seven lines that at that accepted was a school for twenty three and yet my president accepted no violence only through negotiations and having done all of the i'm asking my israeli colleagues if we want him or some such israeli sample of things nobody else will help us the surgeons are
required from me on the israeli americans what they should remind them of may be to sit down with the americans what i said when i mentioned there are they do not there is no peace process now take place what shall i sit with them to do to feel the seven meetings they refused to circumstance when sixty seven they moved their embassy they closed the consulate would establish in forty four in what you don't believe your answer of ideas no i'm not even gonna look i'm not living i'm going to climb i am going to plumbing so answer me this when atlanta is you are going to shoot. why my feet ok because i've done everything humanly possible to make peace. here does everything i'm not there every day i'm there now look them from going to roll in my hometown jericho to you know with the military and fifty point nine percent arming the christian among the palestinians and forty nine point one percent of their. and general because. their only option is
a two state solution i'm asking you i'm not saying that's the only lose. my mic you know talking to anybody there's no point talking to anyone i'm not going from the top of important to you talking to the europeans and the russians look we went past your hunger to do without the american outlook you know the world that we're about that world american you know you you some day you know what you have to sit down with and someday i'd end up stuck meeting some very you well i just gotta stop meeting with them because they you know once you doris felt. that the white house was an officer for the national morality and he's right and this white house requires germs that's meant not real estate agents they think but was thing my arm but blackmailing me by cutting it hundred and forty four million dollars for me including hospitals. the only cancer center i sampled the french hospital but in two hundred thirty million dollars of the school policy means three hundred four million dollars from united nations relief and works agency and they think they can
i can say instead mr silver also of course not super powers look if you let me ask you just let me say one sentence throughout history we've seen powers and super powers come and go anyone who puts an ideology convection believe above the source will doom us and. and president graham look i have six hundred calls because of minutes when i summarize them i'm not only worried about palestinians in israel you know more about you when you're it's far more about like i met survive what's happening because i'm worried about the spanish waking up one morning finding out barcelona the capital of catalonia because the price is right or the island will not or later south america you have to talk to and you've been heavily criticized for what some people have called a scatter gun approach both to diplomacy and decision making the palestinian academics who say not good enough from oxford university verified last year to what
they said was a series of seemingly inconsistent and poorly thought out diplomatic moves that's your territory like what they call the convincing threats to dismantle the palestinian authority how many times has that been threatened write ups never happened look i'm so happy the pursuit of desperate and futile in the ships such as the french proposal in twenty sixteen for an international peace conference you're still calling for an international peace conference. since it's not going to happen then is it you know that i'm so happy that you're quoting my colleagues other early because you know palestinians don't need to see with the eyes of a woman as and also about the recent roaring resentment for our tongues you know that you can say anything about us we are a full democracy really we were coming to that meeting will never come on to very much later when we're just couple to your crackdown or not. when we start very well we make mistakes when you talk about wilkerson we make mistakes but let me finish
my point about the other point before you get me into the other one right. what i'm telling you no one benefits more from peace more than palestinians and no one stands for who is more in the absence of peace might not understand if folks who actually runs out of care about why don't you and your factional divisions because they are killing your chance of peace i agree with you and this is on me yeah it's all i agree with you if you don't do it we have year after year after year the same factual divisions with how much with the other palestinian factions you can't do it you can't put aside your factional interests for the sake of the palestinian people you know we have twenty six palestinian political parties and our only request is that an excuse look how massive the palestinian political party i'm not trying to exclude them all i'm telling them come. we differ but once we know for its ballots and upwards and they have to understand that i cannot have a palestinian state without having one or thirty one gun under one flock of regular
trust you got but no but if you're out there or me you should say or me to do it or not i'm not going to do it they have taken over guys that are accorded part big getting themselves an order with him yesterday we were in cairo asking family member going to stand with them in two thousand and seventeen and what was that you must specify that the national consensus on government reform would have shown that mr sponsibility is equal in the us reckon there's a and we got the ballots some iraq trouble that they didn't you and you blame them i'm not lonely and it doesn't i'm saying all of them facts it doesn't go forward doesn't look you're not giving me a plan to take this final and division putting a plan to them when i mean i came to brazil with his cabinet and think you were there to help probably more parliament i was speaking about for the loyal opposition i said to him mr i'm here to be you out of nor longer a prime minister of hamas you are my prime minister act as such but are to be told
that there is a possibility in student books so what can you do it doesn't work what can i do when you're president goes before the united nations security council and he says i think if you help us you can help yourselves we're trying to you have to sort out these factual disputes with so many structures how much is it just how much last month's meeting of your central council the democratic front for the liberation of palestine they weren't there the popular front for the liberation of palestine they weren't there either they didn't a lot of things or because you are storming i'm procrastinating about decisions that's not true i was there accusation undersecretary you might want to go with me just falling apart i am your palestinian is falling apart i am the secretary general of the p.l.o. and then we got the front at the end all people of that committee meeting still yesterday they decided not to come to the center of cancer. that doesn't listen i kind of stunned guards on their lips i cannot stand guard of your actions as i told you all we are a full democracy but it isn't labor cut it when you can ask them why the people cut
failure of the palestinian national movement is just mission them and please stop listening i have seven grandchildren and william in there be much more nationalist and much more unified than me and your generation look at look at the latest polling palestinian problem sixty two percent want your president to resign sixty seven percent of the satisfied with the performance of the past to look forward to three quarters conditions today as worse than before the oslo agreement there are so what if you achieve we are people who change out of my pov my president want to wants to work. he seeks a permission from the israeli commandos out so what we're we're only going to pick up a couple of you to know what we actually want look at the world bank conditions not not look at the world bank report on down to national under one hundred or two thousand and fourteen fifteen sixteen seventeen we have done we're a very young got thirty crawling twenty year lot. we have done in this twenty years
more than any country in the third world in sixty three years that's the truth in terms of building institutions jockeys also have enough human rights we have a right you have enough we have the right this right when i got the elections i did not come from that does not come to the president by a tank or by a creditor he came through elections he won by sixty one percent of the votes i won by fifty seven percent of the votes not man enough percent that's the fact and that is how i live in appalachia years he. said he wanted senor collections and in the clear he's not going to run when you having elections when we have so i don't know if we have elections without because the only certain we're separating you think the kind of us little guys are calling for elections you probably still i need to win a fight of my people you personally probably not actually see what i did i'm doing it now and i'm getting there junctions the judges are doing a fantastic job not president abbas what was the prison system there's a go and he told them mr president you must specify the steps in accordance with
the timelines and i'm willing to go along with that as long as we reach the ballots and not the bullets and you say you can't have elections until you unify whatever strategy you sort you were employing to make things better for your people it's not looking this i mean god so you've actually been helping to cause hardship you asked israel to cut electricity to cause us not to because of iraq with hamas our sales must prove you didn't ask them that's not true you do look look i have it i have been overloaded we're going to complexity. you know i mean how could the negotiations with me on twenty third of april two thousand and fourteen. because we signed the shuttle agreement with us and he said to me that evening you choose peace between me or you or anyone has been to the negotiations of our sense i have an overloaded wagon of complexities i'm twenty years old i commit mistakes from nothing but i don't wake up in the morning i said today i'm going to make the
following mistakes you're screwed i am going like god i'm under no you're going i'm under occupation i have a hundred and ninety six million dollars in monthly income after the americans got it on themselves erica right there together with our best my president prepared to give the money ninety six million dollars and spend one hundred million there were some americans actually believe it's ok your action has put hospital operations at risk in gaza water pumps sewage systems huge why haven't you squeeze them how can we squeeze them and pay ninety six million dollars out of my budget to fifty percent what can i do i pay very close to for israel the water for israel and then they collect emasculates and they don't put it back in the finance ministry and when people protested in the streets in june about your action you were arrested dozens of them and you security forces beat them up in custody and you told me of democratic you are well look if you want me to be perfect i'm not perfect and he
was very far from the look at those that look government local who said using you have you you mentioned one demonstration is true some people were beaten up that's right but then investigation committee was formed after bubbling up but i'm going investigation i want but how many searches do i have one daily basis in the west bank against a motion against myself how many every single day there is only one place on the arab world where the prostin have president is a good start on palestinian t.v. but i stand newspapers but as you said poppies don't come and attack us look at everything every website. and then you're telling me that i am not. excusing him or i think you say nobody's perfect and you're saying nobody's perfect no it's not excuses what about the corruption but massive corruption which i'm a single authority well the latest polling in september shows that more than eighty percent believe that there is widespread corruption in the palestinian authority
they cite nepotism bribery abuse of public funds and lack of transparency you know your own independent watchdog among the coalition for accountability which has issued yet another blistering report about you for the year twenty seventeen saying that there is a lack of transparency in the continued dysfunction of the palestinian legislative council allows the government accountability number one we have. until corruption you ask me what corruption is probably still in territory sometimes. you have corruption yes last year for palestinian minister when front of the court of corruption i think it's the only time and history of our open islamic countries. but to go on to say this much that's too much
a man has the right to review everything that's going to think every single member of granting me every year have to renew exactly what's or income where do we live when we come what's on and those who committed acts of corruption are put in front of a court. that happens and palestine. really yes and twenty fifteen your former minister in the palestinian authority shocking. resigned over corruption last year he said it was not permitted to carry out any useful action to reduce corruption not to corrupt officials he said were removed those suspected of corruption had their positions strengthened i know some kind of i'm not there no shocker lisa is going global mission and that would opposition and he and he has a right to say whatever he wants any chance of corruption any palestinian who claims from or present our backs down he has the right to know what our court and the corruption and submitted all right. what about the case of palestinian airlines
this was singled out by the world why am i it said the treasury last year continued payment of hundreds of salaries to employees in the palestinian airlines there is of course no palestinian and much the company is not registered in accordance with the law there is no sense of responsibility how do you explain this hundreds of salaries when you have a million line that has flown what two years out of the last thirteen versus our four planes were destroyed by the israelis. and we have people who are working their number been hundreds or salary not hundreds and it's a big ford satirists like just second it just second we have a pension system when you work for as many years i think twenty five. years out of the they were before and for two years they were before they were two thousand and five to two thousand and four and you can fly or we have we had something called.
the president out of our green bay where we have pilots we have people who went in the plan for the algerian ramps of salary not hundreds not hundreds turning out mom got it wrong you have course they can you have this case intimately look i know that every yes you know very intimately and i was the money go in there money not your money when nobody pockets and when money talk about your body yes i'm telling that and when to be honest with the man and by the way a man comes and submits very important for president mahmoud abbas and if this is the case that you worry about that problem palestine as my corruption my undemocratic and that's why i'm under a pension and when i come up there qualify hamas and this and this and this little problem let's go let's go let's get on to the real problem because if you look at the real problem you actually which is that human rights abuses human rights watch which you've dealt with for macand i just produced this latest report compiled over two years which features credible reports of shocking human rights abuses by u.s. services you want to so many question the human rights for space flight very
impressed based our investigation on one hundred and forty seven interviews as you know piers as you know well. shocking abuse they say that they are violations of international humanitarian law and contravene the legal obligations that you took when you signed up to human rights treaties over the last five years torture extensively documented may amount to a crime against humanity and you're telling me your democratic state we are you out torture on a daily basis and we are we are we out of them a lot of water and a good lawyer look human rights watch is a respected organization by the way in the new decade elected exert a committee of the p.l.o. we formed a department for human rights we took a very important very seriously the next morning the prime minister myself the minister frontier liberty we met and issued a statement taking into account a study every single or in this report and formed
a committee to investigate every single matter where i'm saying things like i'm just saying let's see if acting the same out anything you want that's not and if you think one day you will wake up and you find palestinians are void of mistakes when i was a single source from you know not even trying to you get i got to you give me the same honest answer from you not that this is a problem you know right now do you remember a few things. that the point is you know me very welcome and that you know and i know you've made excuses i was not even looking for you i'm not i think look i don't have any on seems to been from feel my forehead. so every what i say and what's recorded and it's going to be on t.v. and the only session that's going to be televised tomorrow so i'm responsible for every single word and you know my credibility you looking to believe in jericho and i live in jericho in the house i was born and that if you were going to rent an apartment of the expense of you live in jericho in the west bank some of the harshest treatment reported by detainees takes place in jericho at the joint
security committee detention center joint security committee with whom this is human rights watch reporting this reuters security committee detention center officers forced prisoners into painful stress positions long. solitary confinement a young man from the ballot a refugee camp so he was twice subjected to electric shocks and once had a court tied around his genitals so much for signing the convention against torture we are member of the convention against torture and you are a minority of the koran you violate it on a regular day told your the hundred and forty seven questions for tweeners twenty four months are being investigated and each single one people who have committed these atrocities will be held accountable that's my promise how many people have been held accountable not knowing how many so many how many you can't tell me
governors three find out what exactly what i meant when i'm not i cannot tell you numbers but i can tell you that security officials in certain areas were sacked fired they were demoted common governors i mean i've really come up and doesn't mean so much i mean of a number i will give you the number i don't have it with me now but many. you're also cracking down on freedom of speech as well how january last year your security forces detained forest's job or a student from hebron about his participation in a book event organized by the islamic group at his university he'd already been arrested five times on charges that turned out to be false you go after these people again and again i'm ok he was taken to one occasion to the jericho detention center where officers alternated between kicking and beating him with a stick you're smiling and smiling go smile about now because i live in jericho and
namor well i've been under young man and all of north people come at my door at two am three am four am in the morning. and with me and tell me i'm or some as there are no or both or is there and so on and i go to you know it's going on course and then i go i'm interfere i'm stubborn on behalf of the president and you have the prime minister cracked sick you are in times you know why is this why is wife happens we start with we admitted we don't hide it we don't find excuses we don't like people people have their own lips and ears and eyes but if you want me to be the perfect model for you i'm not perfect aren't you ashamed of all this as we know more in some cases i'm ashamed yes. you know sometimes sometimes i can't because i'm under thirty i'm twenty three years old i cannot differentiate between freedom for expression and incitement. sometimes there can not that i have to think
palestinians please don't sneer don't talk about me i'm going to listen because of their color because of their belongings because of their affiliation so sometimes we have people who attack others for their religion and so on a shame look this is what a future palestinian state would look like if the future palestinian state when we would look human rights abuses got rush rolling on now back our that's not going to show us exactly how old is the future of the policy and step will be the future of democracy human rights women's rights accountability transparency and the whole flock this is my son very different from what you have known now it's that you know gary you mention we're six million people in the west bank and gaza you mention hundred forty seven questions and to us much too much we're dealing with each one of them separately giving them a lot and should have sort of what we promised and we hope that this number are going to be used and abused and reduced we have to leave it there sagarika thanks very much. thanks.
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this is d w news live from in a security crisis in front of president emanuel about cold chairs an emergency meeting a day off to fuel tax protests turned violent he and his ministers debate whether to impose a state of emergency to prevent a reoccurrence of the worst civil unrest in more than a decade. also on the program un climate talks open in poland with calls for urgent action experts will there's not much time left to stop runaway global.