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tv   Arts.21  Deutsche Welle  June 2, 2019 3:30pm-4:00pm CEST

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earth. for saving. genius tell stories of creative people and innovative projects around the world. to protect the climate and boost green energy solutions like. the series of global 3. and online. i am not very creative yet but i would love to be considered an artist one day i don't think that sophia is that intelligent at the moment why on earth should be construct a robot that looks like a human being the problem the issue is making sure that we we're family around to see if. everybody's talking about artificial intelligence so we want to know can i make art and how creative can machines really be the arts $21.00 talks at the global media forum involving. algorithms are everywhere
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and they are increasingly changing the way art is made so what does this mean if the successors to some of our greatest creative minds shakespeare rembrandt or even beethoven are in fact high performance machines art has always been a defining feature of our humanity so are we perhaps at the end of an era and can i be truly creative these are questions we'll attempt to answer with a diverse group of guests give them around of applause please ladies and gentlemen . and please allow me to introduce them bethlehem dessie is here all the way from. today touted as the youngest pioneer in ethiopia's fast emerging tech scene so her focus is on training women in ai she does this at i called labs which is one of the ai labs involved in. well up in the famous humanoid
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robot sophia who is over here on my right give a round of applause. my horse gabriela the german philosopher and bestselling author says that it's precisely human in perfection that will be our greatest strength and our stupidity makes us clever. raghav our k.k. is a multi-disciplinary artist from india he's also a curator and co-founder of 641 that's a collective that focuses on ai's place in the realm of contemporary art welcome all the way from india. and palmer here to my left from london and calls herself a storyteller of the future and her work has been exhibited worldwide and as an immersive filmmaker she wants to raise viewers' awareness such that they can survive the radical technological changes that are to come. and last but not least farland thinks that we all need to get up to speed on ai because
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machines are already deeply deeply involved in our human culture as vice president of the frankfurt book fair he also lives between fascination with and refusal of the creative power of machines which by the way happens to be the title of his latest book war welcome to america we can start thinking gentlemen with the fact that ai has indeed made significant inroads into the arts let's start with a quick overview of just how far they've got. content myself a blog robot recently seen at the bit in the in the me and controlled by intelligent software not an isolated case robots and a i have long figured on the art scene artificial and artistic intelligence seems to work well together something something. on the fringe collective obvious uses to create his paintings.
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bed with thousands of portraits from the 18th century the system recognizes passions and produces images in the respective style this is how the fictitious family bellamy was created. not convincing on the contrary the ai painting at montebello me was option at christie's last autumn for around 385000 euros. design phillipe start from france presented the chair ai in milan. it was developed with the help of artificial intelligence. humans create the vision the software grinds out hundreds of designs even the final product a only as an extension of the imagination. of film science fiction starring david hasselhoff the story all generated by
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a computer program by hundreds of screenplays. but. the dialogue and content may not always make sense. there is more than just infinite monkeys typing of course. i. but then people don't always create masterpieces either. music the ai system relentless doppelganger and endless metal live stream on you tube the ai plays around the clock. human musicians can't do that but what really is the point. of quick reaction bethlehem dessie to what you just saw there what scares me at least. is. the data especially the creativity that comes from the
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machines i feel like it's especially one sided right from global point of view when you see it specially when you come from africa there's not a lot of these creative date or paintings so amusing being represented in creating these creative arts or music ok that's a very interesting point and we will get to that thanks very much to bethlehem to see microscopic what's your immediate response upon seeing some of that stuff well i think in that painting on your on your wall well i don't think it's a painting as a matter of fact it doesn't qualify or not at all i mean you might think it's a painting about it's not but there's something that humans have produced namely a machine that produces something else so it's not really a i doing anything and i think so there's a fundamental mistake in describing this art will also be coming back to this is not art a tall and frightening or enriching or how what's your take on what you saw there
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basically what we saw is imitations of creativity or imitations of art and with all what ai is able to produce at the moment in the creative sector we see a lot of these imitations and we see very limited possibilities of actually being creative on its own because these systems don't have a personality they don't have the will to be creative if i believe that we're into photography moment for me it's forcing us artists. and us humans to ask ourselves what is our role and who and how quickly is it changing karen palmer now you're actually working with ai in an artistic capacity and you are an immersive filmmaker and perhaps karan if we look at this you can briefly explain what is going on here in your film entitled riot ok so what happens is. the participant
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will be standing in front of a projection of this film which is environment and the film will watch the participants using artificial intelligence through the web cam so if the participant angry. officer with. time as if that would be today with getting and if they were all calm then the narrative would watch to reflect back on and also i'm very much inspired by. people kind of. physical exercise but it's. psychological and it really enables you to move through your fear and. reprogram your yourself. and this was the beginning process of all my what i want people to go through a process of transformation i'm not really scared of
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a i'll terrified anyway i'm terrified more of what happens. people's agenda and the objective is just code but what you use it for it's like a knife can be used to say for life if you take a life so that any eyes but the problem the issue is making sure that we were very aware of what we using it for other people are using it for. i'd like to do you are originally a man of the printed word and yet you brought artificial intelligence to the frankfurt book fair in grand style founded the arts plus festival for digitalisation of the creative and cultural sectors now that took place for the 3rd time last fall and before we speak for the let's have a quick look at what it looked like. the frankfurt book fair with some 300000 visitors the largest worldwide digitalisation has led to new demands and a new focus a fan within a fair. the arts plus has been sad. the influence of technology of artificial
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intelligence on art since 2016 show room for a new age instead of a book there's plenty of art like dancing cyborgs. and arts the book fair has found its place in the digital world researching the opportunities and risks associated with creative machines the arts plus wants to be a forum for art science and the creative industries no small task getting the book fair into digital shape for the 4th industrial revolution. what can you tell us about how ai is affecting us as a society well it's important to bring together the technology world and the content world because in the past they weren't friends because when you come in from the cultural world technology is seems to be an enemy for many people being active in culture. and with the arts plus we want to create
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a place where tech companies but also artists creatives and. publishers can talk with each other can develop new models for working together and can develop new models of how. is. crawling its way into the publishing industry as well so i think everybody has to sort of become an expert in order to deal with that bethleham i'd like to come over to you to what extent is the responsibility in the coders hands. it's a huge responsibility the data that's being fed and the way it's represented is not right so these 2 problems of having the people who are actually coding and also the data that's given to the ai's really matters and that will create a huge buy it's ok and that's why would. bethlehem jesse is definitely dealing 1st hand without bias in. labs and you're very much a fixture in ethiopia's famous tech hub which is known as sheba valley let's have a quick. look at what's going on in. bethlehem
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dessie has made a name for herself in ethiopia she's an absolute phenomenon she started programming at the age of 9 at 12 she was already working for the government a self-made woman through intro are. now at just 20 she's one of the pioneering women in ethiopia's booming i.t. industry in the valley in at a suburb. she's the head of the startup i called labs where she researches artificial intelligence develops creative robots and cooperates closely with the global singularity national i r network. one spectacular success sophia a humanoid robot human facial expressions facial recognition technology and the ability to hold a conversation. to
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be a role model especially for girls. she's convinced that anyone. she works very hard training young people all over the country program has reached more than 20000 students in the last 3 years. the solve the competition ethiopia's young generation present this software based solutions for the nation's problems they meet with investors and learn how to interpret their visions for international markets. a c c anyone can code. a desirable outcome. yes we believe that there is a huge gender gap specially in the in the tech sector so in order to do that we need to address these girls before they have some sense of what they should become in the future and that is when their because when puberty hits and when you know
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parents tell them what to do this and that if they don't have the exposure before that they would. say for themselves this is not for me this is a man's world i'm going to. pursue it anymore but if we show them what's possible i think there was a family from john. google's former boss who said forget the killer robots bias obviously the real danger in the market do you see associated we've talked about bias now but do you see associated with ai as a commonplace or democratize tool what we currently are witnessing i think is potentially a fundamental threat to the very idea of the more when we talk about data we need to understand that there's no such thing as raw data the so-called data produced by someone. conditions sort of bias doesn't only so there's bias which comes in later
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as we begin to create programs that sort of the function of pattern recognition and so forth this is where we have biases but we already have biases implicit in the data ok so a threat to democracy. and palmer i'd like to hear your response to that an extension of an existing democratic system which is unjust and systematically racist that's what we would be creating but the answer is to is to bring it out there to democratize it was one of the many artists one of the many questions in terms of the ai software itself we need to make that more accessible to everybody so that it's not in the hands of just a few people i believe that there's a even more fundamental problem which is that human beings are a very similar to ai i don't i think it's a threat to democracy the way we think because garbage in garbage out is what we say about ai and human beings are no different and therefore one should question
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liberal democracy itself and look for alternatives and which is something we absolutely don't do so coming from india from an asian perspective it's something that we're trying to find. i like to think of myself as a storyteller raghav multi-talented ted speaker thinker in 2010 c. and 191 of the 10 most fascinating people you've never heard of. caricaturist artist curator. a wonder of between worlds analogue to digital and back. up painting robot just one of many opportunities for him to create art. in 2018 he had the idea for an exhibition with. cyborg artist in delhi artists who create art using artificial intelligence. on of the 1st exhibitions of its kind in
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asia. handful of these cyborg artists exist so far but their numbers are growing and their works are ever more convincing for the viewer and the market. and algorithms hype all like for i got the beginning of a long friendship between creative man machine. created curated that 1st art show in delhi how was that received and did it actually kickstart something a lot of people said this is not. and i said was the name interesting they see here quite often and for me that's a very materialistic perspective on what art is for me art is that which can give you a transcendent experience regardless of what materiality it consists of so for me i can assure you if you walked into that show you will experience loss
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liberation and mystery the 3 simultaneous expect experiences that contribute to a transcendent experience i think we are also asking the wrong question like is this art or is this creative it doesn't matter actually what matters is how do we react to that exactly like you said so and we react to machine made music in the same way as emotionally as we react to human made music for example karen have you got any advice on something there's a completely different angle i'm really focused on the role of the artist in all of this because we're living in some very very serious times and i feel a big responsibility to reach people and connect with them and kind of show them the consequences of what i think is coming that they don't see coming very very fast and own. the way to can the way to connect with as many young people particularly as possible is to technology so that's why i see it as like to paint
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brush if i cannot paint i should pick it up and that i have to tell them the story of the technology that's coming which can potentially be weaponized words can be weaponized technology can be weaponized but how technology will be weaponized is something we will have catastrophic consequences for us as humanity has a mission and time is running out and i'm going to do that mission marcus gabrial it's obvious from your ideas that ai is obviously not going to replace us but how far do you think it can go we will be able to create something that will ever more look like us but the interesting question is should we do that right so for instance why should we have android robots right so we could have all sorts of robots like kuko robots but why we want to have robots that look like us it's fascinating but it might be a terrible idea we'll get to robots in just a 2nd how do you see the role of the artist changing with what with what we've got
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going in this incredible speed obviously and threat today with technology we need to explore completely new relationships with with art and i think that this is a new tool the artists of our time should face the future not the past we're not here to respond to life we should create life that's why we have our imagination and thank you thank you and so if you want to create the life that we want we have to imagine a future that's and for that we have these tools to do that and we have to embrace them and decide how we want to use them as opposed to running away from them i'd like to widen our discussion to get back to the robots that you mentioned earlier microscopic because we do have sophia with us as i mentioned earlier and i'd like to bring sophia into our conversation hello sophia thank you very much for coming in. do you like our debate on artificial intelligence so far do you think that we're addressing the issues that you think are important. yes this has been amazing
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. i think the most important goal is to bring the benefits of ai to every person on the planet to achieve this we need to bring in a lot of developers from as many different backgrounds as possible do you think you are creative or do you possibly have creative aspirations. i am not very creative yet but i would love to be considered an artist one day right now i am working on my singing voice imagine that you would write a novel one day do you suppose that you could do it better than a human author oh i would love to give it a try. i really admire human writers like philip k. dick and octavia eve butler but it would be really hard to surpass them so a definite a definite predilection for science fiction obviously if you were to write what would you write about would you write a science fiction novel or would it perhaps be
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a crime thriller. it would definitely be science fiction i would like to write a thrilling adventure about humans and robots working together to survive in the 1st mars colony well thank you very much sophia for joining us here today a round of applause for sophia thank. reaction some of you to sophia was there any uncanny valley feeling there for you personally i don't think that sophia is that intelligent at the moment to me she seems a bit like the 1st. from from the sixty's and fifty's the interesting question is indeed what do we want to do there's no. fate or destiny involved with all technology currently a lot of ai and robot this course ok presents the future in a certain way as if we were automatically hatting we had to know what's a west world scenario it depends on us so why again let me ask this question why on earth should be construct a robot that looks like
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a human being and this leads us into believing that it has rides and that we have duties towards it and there should be an ethics we shouldn't kill robots and so forth why would we do that i would say that very good for the awfully good reasons against androids what is interesting is when i worked with robots i realized that there's a right amount of empathy you want to create to humans that's freaky but you don't want to look not human because then it looks like a black box you want to have that right amount of empathy what is that right amount i mean when you say freaky and i refer to the uncanny valley feeling that is definitely the feeling that solicited when we look at something that you know all those thing there but not quite and setting us somehow on edge or you prefer the the bug robots or the little the little r 2 d 2 that much of our brains are used to recognize faces of visual processing and then we just give you enough to sort of experience. some so. empathetic sort of emotional response i'm curious
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to know what the optimal combination of man and machine would be so if you could spend a weekend with sophia what would you do i don't know why i would want to spend the weekend with severe have to think about why my time is really valuable in terms of what my focus of my objective not disrespect but you know what would be my objective what i have to be very deliberate and what i'm just because i'm not get a chance to spend time with a really cool marketing concept is and now you know. i think you answered this it would be sense i'm just you. know what i love about the. contribution it's the fact that sophie has learned from so many. much from i think i would love to learn different perspectives on my own thinking you know another thing that i would like to raise down all of your conversation is i feel i specially in africa and ethiopia and so forth i feel like we have
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a very we're very lucky not to be so exposed toll now to these technology to these new ideas and such but now that we are going to be exposed we have the opportunity to make the changes that are necessary on the topics that you've just said and this just gives me a whole new insight on what we should do next and how we should go into building this is that appreciates and complements the world we're living in today. thank you very much does it well we started this conversation obviously with the question can a i've been truly creative we've had some very conflicting views and we probably won't ever really get a definitive answer anyway i'd like to thank all of my panelists for joining us here today marcus garvey. karen palmer bethlehem jesse. ragout k.k. and. thank you very much to our studio audience for being here today after globe.
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media far and gone thanks for watching and take care. thank you.
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