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tv   Quadriga  Deutsche Welle  June 15, 2019 12:30am-1:00am CEST

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already i call i'd return to the. to visit friends but i don't think i'd ever go back there to live you know where i live there again i don't know so i'm not sure. bearing witness global news that matters. made for an audience. a lot of very warm welcome indeed to put really good coming to you from the heart of burlington suddenly it seems there is a new mood in german politics voters are going green in numbers in recent opinion polls the environmentalists have for the 1st time ever i was to dangle americans conservative christian democrats as the country's most popular policy and there's growing talk there's a next chancellor could even be agreeing so our question this week on quadriga is
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the greens germany's new number one and to discuss that question i'm joined here in the studio by professor voice going back home from the berlin social science center who says the greens are the party of the privileged and as such their natural limits may be touched at 20 percent also with us is prominent business journalist and commentator was ill advised and felt he believes no other policy has struggled as much as the greens to accept the spirit of the market column in trusting and a very warm welcome to g.w. so maximillian akashic who is a political correspondent for the doors of a keeps a close eye on the greens and maxie argues that the greens must choose between purity and graft they can't please everyone it's interesting thank you for those free statements for the top of the show 1st question goes to maxine mckew see how greedy is g m. i think germany is guessing greeno every election and now we see
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that in especially the states elections the last couple years we've seen that in bavaria last year where. the greens have become the 2nd biggest forth and the very heart of meant which was traditionally very conservative and reigned by merkel sister party the very own conservatives we've seen that also enhance their one of the other conservative strongholds where the grains gain significantly they're getting a foothold in almost every of german states the question is how ready are they going to be governing the states how willing are they going to be getting states and is this still a debate we only see in the west because we'll have a couple actions coming up in east germany and the greens haven't gained quite of that they are going for the reason i'm asking about how green is germany's because you will know that there are people outside germany are always asking whether they're very aware that germany has a long environmentalist green tradition and i wonder whether you believe that that image of germany still stands up and still violent yes of course it is climate change protection that has moved in the middle and into the mainstream within the
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last month and that i think that the green party success is in some kind you can you can understand it as the movement off climate change protections within the family's bijan. a broader society we have. professor malcolm. va question is i suppose this excess of the greens that has now been on the very been on the rise as marx he was pointing out for quite some time is it here to stay because they've been they've been here before and faded back to becoming a 1015 percent party are they here to stay this time as one of germany's leading forces i'm i'm a bit more cautious about these polls reading and press and polls are polls elections are elections and by the way european elections are different from national elections in national election the people milne vote more for party where
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they're not only have trust and have sympathy but they must think that they are able to govern and if we are looking to 2 people at the top of the corrientes we would immediately say they do not have any experience in governing and to tramp from the top of the party into the main offices of the country it's a long way to go and this will be in the perception of the voters as well ok we'll talk about those 2 percent to leaders in a minute but just to you you characterized the greens is a policy of privilege that sounds very dismissive no it's not and it's simply empirical the sissy empirical truth we know the koreans have the electorate where you find most of the formally very good at u.k. to people and this is one reason why i'm also skeptical that the koreans will
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really jump at the top of our party system they draw extensively on the voters in metropolitan and urban cities and where you find well educated middle class and this is a limited electorate they. they do not have any crush on the walters of the lower 3rd of societal programming stark says there is a new dynamic in german politics he says the president of german politics is training and he says the greens can harness that dynamic can create become a broader based polls yes and they will have it just trust 11 sentence yes they will try to do it and we cannot explain the rise of the queen's with out the steep decline of the to catch all parties c.d.u. and the s b d they are to some extent blocked dulness to understand the to the creed and i think that what 11 of the one explanation is that people are fed
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up with the 2 government parties say experience them for 101214 years now on the 2 plans that make up i'm going to. be coalitions of the grand coalition and people are fed up with 1. 11 part of voters turn to the greens and the other all the pot turns to the the right wing i think exactly the way we have to look kindly where the electorate is moving is going to give us an indication as you say how the greens can develop because as much as they're taking bloods if you quoted from the center left and right conservative and democratic party they're also letting blots to the left so what we've seen in the national election 2017 is that as much as the greens had gained votes they're also lost a couple of votes to the left especially in these metropolitan areas and in these state elections where we have a much more rural community but we also see the greens of seeding we can feel it get a bit of a feeling for the potential they can have with
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a lesser elitist part of the german electorate and i think that is why the upcoming elections in the east of germany were especially interesting because there we will have the least of this classic green electorate and this is where they need to start their actual convincing of a broader electorate and if they will succeed that. but the time of big parties is strolling to an end and you and europe we will not find these folks part time i think if you're searching there for the german word you're looking for the because catch this is a visitor said more negative than the religion of connotation we used to have for the fights at tion and this time is more or less all what you do not find very many in europe anymore and the greens will not become the new catch all party in germany much insult let's get some pictures 1st of all in one complex of that theory because as we have seen the greens go right back to the 1980 s. them for many of those one moment in particular when they really established
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themselves on the national radar here it is. white sneakers it's an unforgettable image yashica fischer taking his oath of office as the green party's 1st ever minister he was making a provocative statement with the shoes yet for many it was proof that the greens want to be taken seriously. but no one saying that anymore while the party has enjoyed successes in the past it's now more popular than ever mainly thanks to its likeable leaders on alaina babcock yeah and all about how young feisty and trustworthy their politicians who aren't afraid of taking on responsibility for 2 new members are from entrepreneurs to the unemployed from young to old people are voting for the greens who wins for us that means it's our duty to communicate and operationalize our policies or develop when we were in a minority position so that they find broad public support there to be american
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interest in climate protection the greens fundamental issue is now a hot topic for people from all walks of life so are the former eco warriors on their way to becoming germany's next major party. is the question the next major party that soaking about what you were talking about commenting about these fall spots and i just give us another idea so that our viewers really understand how elementary that has been for german politics and explain why is the greens cannot be in your estimation of folks thought i have a big tent policy flex time. played a major role in the 2nd top of the 20th century but till then we see a steep decline and they are important for had to read genius societies to keep them to keep it together on a political level and they can only do it if they try all voters across
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all social classes across all age cohorts. and all cultural milieu and this is not what the koreans are prepared to do they may explore it more and more this milieu of course will politan this be find an urban area they will gain a lot of world from the younger people but they will not get so many votes from the people above 60 which is a matrix share of our electorate or do so to all the things i think that what america has right to be. millions of somewhere else living in germany and not only anywhere else the green party is is addressing so i think we do have a d.p. white in society for the viewer what the difference between a somewhere in the valley where not always a term senator serving the person well educated to come live everywhere around the world whose mo bile and who is quite open to any forms of living on the social
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state some things like that some people who are in most time live live on the countryside to half a job have a family and want to stay there their want to stay somewhere around have their home somewhere so. there are millions of somebody else living in germany and they are not as attracted by the green party as be anywhere else and i think that this is 11 problem the other one is that the society is divided even in germany and in a different divided society you won't find political parties which cover the whole of the whole electorate maxie you say in the quota the top of the show the greens must choose between purity and bret's tell me a little bit more about because we've seen how the greens have been trying to branch out in the last couple of years they've been trying to get to the somewhere as of most consider they have to a certain extent been successful i'm going to have to have other age groups to have
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me moved into other areas of society lower income areas it's it is possible. no sorra bus driver to be you to be a green voter surely interesting thing is if we look especially on the german state level like if we don't try to see it in the saddle and the broader germans perspective but on the regional perspectives how they learn to kate's that's a different needs and different german regions so again coming back so the spectacular example of last year's election and the various we've seen that the conservative party the sea is you in bavaria and the social democrats are both going very heavy on the immigration issue they were both majorly putting their campaign on their cards and they failed miserably both the greens but broadening out their campaign much more they were complaining of different issues that not of not nationally green issues they're complaining also on the challenge of agriculture which you would think they would normally do with organic angle they didn't they were talking
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a lot about the issues of conventional agriculture something you have not heard from actual concern here because politicians so if they on the last state level green the green party does turn to come soft of issues price preservation off of creation and things like that and addressing christians addressing people who aren't quite conservative and in their mind i think in despite the fact they're very according to you have struggles to embrace intellectually that markets and commentary struggled more than any of the policy you say yeah but but but but this is the economic part of green politicians they as a as an opposition party they just chose and picked small issues like fireworks on new new new new year new year's eve for sugar in lemonade it's unfair and seems lebec and just went on these issues only to fight too much sugar too much things are for everything and that is and contrary to the understanding of
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social market economy you're only. frame economy on the market and not go for special editions and the green party is the party which is most keen on into winning in small topics and not just giving a frame and let the market go within this framework for american. mentioned an important point the greens are in the opposition and if a part of party is in a position it can claim some purity of its stance of its program if you if they have to go into government they have to make tradeoffs tradeoffs between the environmentalists to do that in places like hansen in places like barton brought there's a why different thing because to start somewhere and that's the state they do not decide about economic policies not about tax policies not very much about labor
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market policies but these are the areas where the tradeoffs will come up between a clear environmental policy and these kind of policy they can be for 7 years and government. from 1970 where a much you are right they were not punished this is getting an interest for these topics that especially cisco policy i thought was quite interesting to see that on us government on the federal level the greens have now prepares to attack one of the holy principles of the grand coalition the blacks there i mean we've seen a policy proposal that's an interesting line of inquiry and this is something we would have expected from the social democrats by the brains to say we need to. address the investment gap we need to go away from the black 0 policy and we need to think about structural investments in our infrastructure in our
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telecommunications that works and we need to find a different policy for this and the one for that policy is deficit spending guess that is and that is at it came from the european level done to trickle down to the to the german level and i think that the fiscal competence of the green party mainly is on the european level and not so much on the german level but on the other hand it is the only party which is. which is prepared to stop the black 0 and i'm not so sure whether this is something many people in germany would agree to but the social democrats already recognize that this flexi euro never have been a traditional social democratic policy yet they're fighting with maybe their finances converting i'd like to try their best bet research but i believe this is not social democrat not social democratic policy that it is still the social democratic fine and right there is defined by they would recognize that this starts
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harm to the party and they will change in these issues hopefully because they react to the other main competitors and i'm pretty much sure that this plex euro which has never been very well come among the rank and file is and the functionaries of the party will be one of the 1st sec refuses of the sort of democratic parties to catch up again if but that won't be an argument to to go forward for the s.b. to use them so it would be an argument for the left party or for for for for the for the fact that i mean how does this figure now to address these issues to not shy away they're not shying away from dish issues of security policy either their securities policies speaker on the federal level in the german parliament and. she is being very outspoken off like challenging the ideas the greens have been thinking about security policy it used to be of our pacifist approach and they kind
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of left tradition and they're now becoming much more realistic they're still staying and this is this is the point i think it will be interesting to see where on these hard issues that define as you say german politics will they make a decision for their principles versus their broader appeal or can they make their principles broader appeal and you can omit policies on social policy it just mainly storytelling it is not as detailed and as reliable as you told it for for the interiors and so security policies nevertheless was a lesson so that the greens have a very impressive skillful well briefed knowledgeable leadership do you or. yeah they do but neither of them had to have half to govern a state or. city or whatever so we don't know how they would deliver if they were in responsibility and all but topics that all we have to deliver know now and he
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has to prove that even as the title of the write offs begins and this will do or harm to them or also talks in purists among their voters let me just come back to my point i didn't assume that when i listed the qualifications for leadership of the jim green term to be you were going to say yes of course but her professor mapper. to do this to green co-leaders have all the chancellorship material. this is not how to write songs about who's potential dangers of the hear now from the studios that do not have experiences and they should have some experiences i cannot think about one. in our history which who did not have experiences in directing executives and they have now been at the top of of law in germany and even this is something which is so different from governing in the federal system so
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i'm doubtful and i would say both have to collect experiences as well but on the other hand i do not think that they become the strongest party in the next and i think you have to admit that one has councilors the top you just go with the positions that if you look at time would call i'm going to markland know you have a long extension 1st year but in the 1st years it was not not not every time joy just to watch them to experience that that kind of leadership the question is even if these 2 candidates. these 2 possibly to us are going to be the actual candidates because i mean will be seen now they've always been leading that parties have been leading these campaigns but obviously never with the intention of one of them becoming a lead candidate for an actual job because it's 2 people and there can't compel him to get now the national someone is that robot hollaback the charismatic male lead
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up with the comment and there's already been talks about sudden maybe the woman on the in a babel becoming the candidate i think it's quite interesting the more intelligent and. i don't know what's in the conversation why science is entirely more intelligent conversation wise she's for example academically qualified she studied international law he has studied. liberal arts and just talk about these things there is fine distinctions but the question is does it even have to be a one of the 2 of them they have now a significant amount of members hiring can quite popular members that have executive experience on the european or on the of the most of the federal or state of the most popular and to some extent the electoral success of the greens can be traced back probably more to harbin again i'm hesitating to say this as a man and public so he is a real popular figure and pro-u.
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has chosen to serve because it could be the classical male chauvinist of white men year this is the reason but i do think she is probably even for term and standards too young for it this is another reason the age 38 at this point in time is shit i think things are retarded just touching 50. even 38 there will be a discussion and sure you mention the word you mentioned the word charisma and clearly a lot of german votes i don't think this is just press hype i think a lot of people. really out there on the streets watching the t.v. programs are very impressed by robot hardbacks they are you know they find him a compelling they find him a charismatic figure but i warn you again we've seen this it's interesting to see it in direct comparison to the social democrats which have a lot of prominent popular figures like knots of popular animal but
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a lot of prominent figures often on the national level that several germans like the germans know we have from the party leader to the cabinet ministers to the heads of the states with the greens it's quite interesting that they always seem to be concentrated on several small figures like the possibly to shift or maybe now we do know also the head of the parliamentary groups but it's interesting to see them coming back to bavaria because it was very interesting it was a it was an almost copy of another in about book and. there was running the campaign that i was little and. and they they were quite the same team and in the end it was clear at that point that if they would be able to lead a government it would be the mayor kind of debt because they had already sorted out the qualifications he was the more qualified person and that's why i'm coming back to principle worsens appeal they need to find their decisions before they appeal with them to the voters they need to make these decisions now and this is something
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that needs to be happening not based on polls but needs to base on their own convictions because their party that is very much about conditions of policies they started as a party that was only based on the ecological on the electoral policy it was a one issue front of the century and i'm fancy as well they then have an internal discussion who would be the candidate which brings most of the voters to the party they will also offer for the most populous of the party and then this is a metro for peeling parties our abode. well to maximize the result of what's going to happen next i think that discussions within the green party on fiscal policy social policy on all these issues you have to address if you want to become a governing party and. probably. a party which has
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the chance to be. they have to sort it all know and they have to say not only the most popular popular but also look most prominent on the most and person to to go for it there's also a point think about the koreans step into government they start with their measures against climate change which is absolutely right and correct but we all know it will not change the climate germany is only responsible for 2 to sleep per cent of our carbon emissions so that change anything in. a day cannot trap you think this is a. reality for the green. ok. so we're going to have to leave it thank you very much for joining me here today on. germany's potential the greens a lot of skepticism in the room about our prospects but i come back next week.
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