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tv   Conflict Zone  Deutsche Welle  November 6, 2019 8:30pm-9:00pm CET

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makes no. sound how i blame. the 14 w. . 3 you saying people use drugs you know out of control well i don't believe they're out of control nobody forces you to break the law to the government i think it's probably kongs pro-democracy movement imagined it had qualified support of the international community it had better think again the british government has slammed what it called a hard core of demonstrators warning the bear violence was unacceptable and had to stop i guess this week here in berlin is joey you pro-democracy activist and spokes person for a number of students unions in hong kong shouldn't movement now except that it's
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time to make a deal with the hong kong government before that truth becomes impossible. to welcome to some closure if it's rude for the hong kong police to use violence why is it right for the demonstrators to use. well 1st of all i don't think the level of use by prato sorry based on de intention to attack anybody i believe the intention of using violence is only to protect ourselves because saying that the police had been beating a protest. without a reason when the police are you saying they return it yes but they do more than return down to october 20th we have a group of hardcore protesters throwing petrol bombs at the station police station
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in retaliation we can only go one protester starved a policeman with a box cutter we have a homemade bomb which went off on the roadside by the grace of god didn't hurt anybody can anybody is that kind of violent i'm talking about well what's the justification well i believe the justification is because when potus realized that peaceful demonstrations in march are no longer useful in calling the government to respond to it is demands i believe that's why there's a reason why did trying to use violence to express their anger express their theory and suggest a police force and this is random violence who took them. yes and i agree that in no means we should try to use peaceful means to call for a response from the government and i believe to use age of silence would not be the resolution of force into government to respond to our demands are you saying the people who use violence now out of control well i don't believe they're out of
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control because one of you for the protesters to meet with the london financial times last month is called mark you 17 years old he said i feel like we can't restrain ourselves anymore the hatred towards police is growing stronger and stronger can't restrain ourselves that sounds very much like so much movement which is getting out of control. i believe that is only some individual cases i believe on the oncoming ground that most of the protesters are still doing doing things on based on the reason for example like dave vandalized n.p.r. stations they vandalized those restaurants or other shops that are related to chinese funded companies because you know we've come a little later to buy the machines here but some of your leading figures awarded by the violence and johnson the young and was an organizer of the 2014 brother movement who said every stakeholder should take action immediately if we don't want the violence to escalate to a point where the only panic but why don't you stand up and so enough with the
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roads well i believe one of the principal amount to prattle about mostly taking no condemning any of our products or even though. the level of violence they use ours seems to be like ask a lady and might be posing some harms to the others so you move almost chinese communist party unity that's vital for. them arguing nobody can talk nobody can dispute what we do argue and we do discuss about our actions and even even after those vandalize asians we've got some discussions online on the online forums about and we do reflections of on on our actions so i believe there are that it was done and still goes on who can stop it who can or do it to stop well i believe nobody can try to stop it unless it is so it's out of control than if nobody can stop it unless when the unless where the younger generation is sent to gether they're
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willing to stand there with together with the older generation for example like. so if elected and leaders together with some so they can leaders from the pro-democracy side when. when these leaders try to stand up together and say now we have to do something peaceful and to stop the phallus i believe that might be. the might be a way to stop the violence and the other thing about zones pretty tentative. is predetermined pretty difficult once the train is rolling nobody in your group can stop it but that's dangerous and yes i agree so that's why we have been organizing peter marches and rallies to to try to switch the to try to switch the tactics that we're using on a platter saying to cover it government to respond to our demands and i believe everybody in this society has been working very hard for example that we are organizing general strikes we have been organizing class boycotting campaigns
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because we would like to try to explore other peaceful means so that we don't have she has been absent if in the meantime you should god forbid killing the body and innocent possibility or us or a policeman your movements finished and we all international support will evaporate over the us i agree and i am prepared to take the risk and you won't come out in public and say we need to stop this the british government has slammed last week has slammed what it called the hard core minority said the violence was unacceptable this is the sound of you all international support wavering and and believing you listen that. yes well i believe the escalation of thousands and those violent scenes is my with absolutely be very concerning to the international society when all the free world countries are advocating using peaceful means to. bring the situation to
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a to restart but the 2 and you are going to 4 already doesn't matter. well of course that matters but i think the most important thing is about how can we hold our government accountable and how can we bring them to respond to our demands what about the judiciary you've heard criticism from judicial institutions in hong kong really heavy criticism these are the bodies enjoy considerable respect around the world for the impartiality again if you are losing them this is a really bad sign for the law society for instance of all forms of honor for violence particularly against the police the use of petrol bombs against the police as well as the apparent attacks on the families of police officers and of the children at school. you proof of those methods bullying the children of police officers that school well i don't agree with those math that's let's deal with. the
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10 and so you don't agree with the violence and you don't agree with the bullying of the children doesn't sound as though there's much you agree with but you'll stay silent anyway now we had the f a k thing using piece i mean for example like peter rallies marches to. to express our concerns and demands but the point is that we do not publicly condemn those actions but still we try to use our peaceful means to use our own case for means to try to switch the tactics of those using intimidation mafia style and intimidation we have a report of one teenage daughter of an officer being heris by an adult while she was playing sport they said to her what your father is doing is disgusting since when are children responsible for the actions of their parents. well 1st off i don't thing any family members of those police officers should be responsible for their own disgusting actions and i make if you're making them responsible some of
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your people are making responsible balloon them harrison well i believe that is happening but. are there or will not society says it's happening the accuse you of yes i can deny that it is actually happening but still we're trying to use play so tactics to to bring the situation to a resolution and i believe like bullying family members would not be a very good way to solve this situation to hong kong bar association so do the hong kong airport constituted serious struction and was in open defiance of junctions granted by the courts in other words you broke from war do you want to live in the state governed by the rule of law or only the moves that you like of course i would like to live in a state of law however we can see that it is very obvious that the situation of we are flying home counties being broken up by the protesters but by the government itself and i believe that's why protesters are marching on the street are taking on
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to the streets even though to know that it will break the law and i believe your experience is something you know that the most important is to fight to protect the rule of law in hong kong and judicial independence but you are trashing it at the same time. while i believe breaking the law to protect to the law doesn't because well it is the government that for us as us to take on the streets and to break the laws it is not a part of your defenses you know play forces you to break the law or do that the government far as i set it up to me that's your interpretation but here here are these judicial institutions rule warning you that criminal contempt as they put it impedes the administration of justice and the fun checked will inflict grave and reprobate damage to the rule of law in hong kong grave and irreparable damage that's what they think you are doing to hong kong. the mental
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well of course that matters but as i have mentioned what matters to most of us about whether we can actually bring a change to our political structure and government structure and that would be to come and go and would be the most important goal for us to achieve for this at the moment and i believe even for the department of justice is self evident being totally independent for now after the after the handover of hong kong from their british government to the chinese government we can see that our core values our judicial system is being encroached by the chinese government we can see from to rescind prosecutions dept the department of justice is only prosecuting in putting those processes on court while they are at you still have independent judges you still have independent courts while. in terms of system they are independent however we can see that they're actually being very heavily influenced by the
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chinese government that they're sidestepping. of for example like the 21st year long 21st july you're long cases they're not prosecuting they're not taking any you have to try it straight to the court while they had been political prosecuting so many of the protestors and some of those are persecuted decisions jury sue if you have a son down with the government and hold a dialogue who talks who could who could all the rise compromises that are essential in the kind of political dialogue who in your movement could actually sit down and authorize compromises i believe nobody could represent our movement because as you know. nobody will sit down with you you're not opening doors you're closing doors woman we are going oration you just said nobody to the compromise is going to be consistent for you represent you while back you have not supposed to talk to well back in june the chief executive has tried to approach to several
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student unions the hong kong and we had rejected her offer because she requested a private meeting with some of the student to hong kong which which is not even representing all the students in hong kong it would be a start wouldn't it it would have been a start it won't be a start it will only be a end to our movement because back in 2014 we see that caroline tried to talk to some of the student leaders some of the leaders of the umbrella revolution however what we got are 30 after the dialogue was that. was to crackdown after our movement and then carolyn did not fear any of her any of her promises in the dialogue and we felt like especially in this leaderless movement it's very important for us to have a public dialogue with as many stakeholders in a society as possible at least we cannot only have the student activists talking to kerry land ok we have to include are the stakeholders you've put forward 5
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principle demands of the hong kong government you and your fellow activists that the government has only addressed one of them which was the extradition bill which through with drew. but in fact according to albert chen professor of nor the university of hong kong the government responded to all of your demands just not in the way that you want it you wanted an independent investigation into police handling of the riots you didn't get that but you didn't get nothing over the independent police complaints council appointed 5 overseas experts from britain canada australia and new zealand you can get everything that they do. while i believe what are we calling for is not only a fish show demand for official response from kerry lamb what we're asking for is about a concrete action by the hong kong government we're asking them to respond to our demands by taking actual actions for somebody to invited these experts from from britain canada australia and i believe that is not was young in for no it's not exactly what you wanted but it's something we are asking for an independent
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commission of inquiry to investigate into police brutality however for the independent police commission it is followed by most of the. supporters how can we trust them how is that how nobody can put it i can't trust you overseas experts from britain canada. to me and he's not the one who make decisions to have them trained you also want all charges dropped against protesters who've been arrested and they've turned down. but how could they do anything else if you offer if you were found to broken the law you should be punished the same way as the police shouldn't you so why did why are you above the law so why aren't they punishing the police they have in the past police have been hauled into court punished we cannot even identify the police because they are not showing their warrants because they are not showing their numbers when we cannot hold the police accountable when nobody can actually punish the police how come to count on government this could be
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charging our creditors with rioting even though they are only participating in some peaceful marches those that it's not reasonable so they died inside to yourselves equal before the more body else doing we are equal before the law so why do you should you get an amnesty why if you've broken the law and the hong kong bar association the hong kong society you seem to indicate that you have broken the law should you be punished for breaking the law well i believe r.c. for amnesty would be the best solution would be the best resolution to be stopped we are in a way of law in hong kong yes which wants to yes we want but of the same time many want an honest if you want to escape punishment for breaking the law i would consider the society that you want to live in i would not say that is trying to escape from being punished when we have broken the law i believe the reason why protesters are taking onto the streets is because. we want
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a government to be accountable to us we want a government to give concrete actions as much to our democracy and i believe that's why we are participating in peaceful marches lawful marches ever since jan however the government the police have been accusing us has been arresting us for rioting and when the reason why directing arse is not reasonable at all how can they charge us so that's why we are asking all a couple to some of some of your other actions in the book when it comes to the future the worry seems to be that you don't have much of a plan do you except to keep fighting you said recently i have no idea how these protests will end or even what will happen tomorrow we feel like there is no way back so we must keep fighting as if you're a passenger in this movement but you're not a passenger in this movement you're one of the spokes people for this movement don't you isn't it time you took responsibility for the well i think definitely our
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should be taking some other responsibilities off finding the way out for hong kong for the whole movement but the fact is when the situation in hong kong is like changing in a very. in a very lightnings beat every day we did not see our future we do not even know what would be happening the next day because back in june back in july we did not expect the government to be exercising its emergency powers don't have a plan of where to go do we want from saying we want all our demands met in full the only plan you have been to france it we do have up and we do have a plan we are very clear that we have to rethink about our we have to rethink about the future of hong kong we have to think about a 2047 debt light and i believe that is the consensus among congress other than to 5 demands we are trying to discuss we are trying to have discussions amount
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different stakeholders in hong kong about our future after 2047 but at stake is not just your fate and your from the protesters but millions of people who live in hong kong we're going to have to live with the fallout from your movement and from your movements actions for many years i mean you may be happy to bring china's rules down on your head but to collapse the roof or move. in hong kong is that really a responsibility you want to you're prepared to take well 1st i thought i thing the majority of hungers are still in support of the movement and i believe most of us are quite clear that and i'm getting prepared that was we are selling the movement or ones like. to china's communist government would be using 1000 tactics to end the protests we are very clear that what the aftermath would be and i believe the majority of hong kong like to take the risk in all their to you know that in this change of the better future of hong kong but don't you have
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a responsibility to try and find a way back which preserves and strengthens what you already have instead of risking a crackdown in which you could lose everything i believe we do or i mean for the act of democracy politicians we do have to a responsibility but after all i think the greatest responsibility is the hong kong government south and this is a project of most of the british government calls for a meaningful dialogue between parties with a credible political track to protect the rights and freedoms set out in hong kong's basic law are you capable of opening a meaningful dialogue from what you've told me so far you know or tell you what i believe the 1st criteria of having a sincere and meaningful dialogue would be the hong kong government itself trying to be sincere well last time when they were in fact he did in units of the dialog they're trying to have it privately they're not willing to make it public and to
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incite other stakeholders and even when they're trying to get on to come back to that point it could have been a start how could a bit of start when they're not being sincere we do not believe that would be any kind of meaning for consensus made in a dialogue when they're trying to wrest our fellow when they're trying to put us in jail how can we believe that there would be meaning for a sincere dialogue at least they have to stop their prosecutions 1st i mean not forever but they alice have to show some sincerity. some sincerity people are worried that you're becoming increasingly rigid and inflexible dreams of change who lead a coalition of pro-democracy groups and 2014 says no one ever do is to say think about it or accept it anyone who does so will be severely attacked we come to a consensus we stick to that position and we cannot shift is that the way you won't be able to start negotiations this rigid in flexibility you're in danger of
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becoming just as inflexible as but it didn't hurt you i believe their discussion about the future of hong kong are how difficult it would go if this is like mushrooming especially in the recent days when we see that there has been there after lation of violence while we're not achieving anything we're not forcing the government to respond i believe there had been more in my discussions and well and i believe that like peaceful means would be the only way out for us to resolve this and current situation in hong kong primary inspired a group of your partisans have been beating up people who just think differently september the 15th we had a group of beat up a 49 year old hong kong man beating monk conscious because he did to challenge what the group was doing child hughton remonstrated with your fellow activists who showed you the love china i am chinese but they beat him up unconscious had to go to hospital he was in critical condition when he arrived but he survived is that
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the way you deal with people who think differently from me. well of course that there will not be the very ideal way i do you could you don't even condemn it where did i condemn any kind of you have anyone suppose then if you're not going we don't have an answer posts inhuman treatment like this you can't even look me in the face 'd and say i condemn this kind of in human treatment where we're not doing any kind of public condemns. but still we are trying to detect takes to a more peaceful way what about the violence schools businesses that are seen as on supported hope how do you emerge in your protecting democracy by trashing a.t.m. machines and starbucks. how does that help you preserve democracy while i believe protestors are vandalizing underground stations vandalizing those chinese companies for a reason because they will like to bring actual harm to those companies so that so
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that because they don't support you it's not about they don't support us it is it is about they are not why is it working for themselves they have to have their windows smashed in the have to have their a.t.m. machines trashed because they just don't think the same way as you do and you want to preserve democracy well i believe that would definitely not be the best way however of doing that for a reason and they're not i mean they're trying to be rational and that's why we're not trying to condemn them publicly but still we do have the flashes we do have discussions about this vandalize asians and there have been more and more voices about that we should actually try to explore in some peaceful way so you're taking part in the local council elections not you personally but an aperitif 450 candidates from the pro-democracy groups are you willing to switch your return ssion from demonstrations and violence to politics to the slow painstaking often
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tedious business of politics in order to make hong kong work better for its inhabitants are you willing to do politics instead of just instructions well i believe the 2 things have to go parallel well side about politics when we've got pro-democracy activists trying to get into the institutions we're trying to change the government structure by. by a democratic way by elections and at the same time we have to continue our projects so that we can put pressure on the hong kong government south and i believe the 2 things are not contradict contradictory and that's why we have to make it go parallel and i don't believe that. we have to put all of our attention all of our focus on district council elections and try to stop any kaiser protesting but here i believe that protests have to be in a peaceful way so it's you been good to feel complete so thank you for a. bold
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or. soon after the fall of the berlin wall nov 9th on do you w.
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. i think is everything channing and i make on this new. school much different culture between here and there so more challenging for him. to do some of the same i think it was worth it for me to come to germany. to shop and got my license to work as a swimming instructor here to shine our 2 children 100 adults described just as for . what's your story take part cherish on info migrants document. that you don't need to keep a day available both for the over the fence and home the 4th time for you all the closeness even that became. the bottom of the family that the last dragon this world has called the heart. to be a good one to. welcome to the but is the gate here for d.w.i.
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. triplane to talk about since. this was our coverage. 3 more. as a whole we have. let's have a look at some of the other relief look so you don't want to miss. the w. e colby's in germany to learn german. published in the. why not learn with him online on the mobile and free to sask c w e learning course because fic.
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this is d.w. news why but from berlin for or against the paris climate agreement this week the united states begin withdrawing from the deal today france and china say they are united in the fight against what scientists have declared as a climate emergency a woman tells those scientists warning of untold suffering if we don't change the way.


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