tv Conflict Zone Deutsche Welle November 7, 2019 1:30am-2:01am CET
most girls to put. myself. in some form of. what's a big. part of what some. degree of what. are you saying to people you guys you know out of control well i don't believe out of control nobody forces you to break the law or do the government part i think is probably kongs pro-democracy movement imagined it had be unqualified support of the international community it had better think again the british government has slanted what it called a hard core of demonstrators warning that their violence was unacceptable and had to stop my guess this week here in berlin is joey hugh pro-democracy activist and spokes person for a number of student unions in hong kong should do the whole movement now except
that it's time to make a deal with the hong kong government before the true becomes impossible. choice to welcome to conduct some fresh air if it's wrong for the hong kong police to use violence what is right for the demonstrators to use. well 1st of all i don't think the level of use by protesters are based on de intention to attack anybody i believe the intention of using followers is only to protect ourselves because saying that the police had been beating a protest. without a reason when the police are you saying they return it yes but they do more than return down to october 20th we have a group of hardcore protest and throw petrol bombs at the station police station doubles in retaliation we can only go one protest a stud a policeman with
a box cutter we have a homemade bomb which went off on the roadside by the grace of god didn't hurt anybody or kill anybody it's that kind of violent crime talking about well what's the justification well i believe that justification is because when protesters realize that peaceful demonstrations or march are no longer useful in calling the government to respond to it is demands i believe that's why there's a reason why did trying to use violence to express their anger expressed their theory and say against a police force and this is random violence who took them and run yes and i agree that in no means we should try to use peaceful means to call for a response from the government and i believe to use age of violence would not be the resolution of force into government to respond to our demands are you saying that people use violence you know out of control well i don't believe they're out
of control because one of you for the protesters to enter the london financial times last month is called mark he's 17 years old he said i feel like we can't restrain ourselves anymore the hatred towards police is growing stronger and stronger can't restrain ourselves that sounds very much like so much and movement which is getting out of control. i believe that is sony some individual cases i believe on the on incoming ground that most of the protestors are still doing doing things on based on the reason for example like to vandalize n.p.r. stations to vandalize those restaurants or other shops that are related to chinese funded companies because i'm a little. too but the much is serious but some of you leading figures awarded by the violence and johnson young was an organizer of the 2014 brother movement he said every stakeholder should take action immediately if we don't want the violence to escalate to a point where the only act but why don't you stand up and so enough with the world
well i believe one of the prince or pows among the crowd is about mostly taking no condemning any of our products or even though. the level of violence they use ours seems to be like escalating and might be posing some harms to the others so you move to almost chinese communist party unity that's vital for. them argue you can talk nobody can dispute what we do argue and we do discuss about our actions and even even after those vandalize asians we've got some discussions online on the online forums about and we do reflections of on on our actions so i believe there are those around and still goes on who can stop it who can all do it to stop well i believe nobody can try to stop it unless it is so it's out of control and if nobody can stop it alas when the unless when the younger
generation is sent to gether they're willing to stand there with together with the older generation for example like so far like student leaders together with some so they can leaders from the pro-democracy side when. when these leaders try to stand up together and say now we have to do something peaceful and to stop the phallus i believe that might be. there might be a way to stop the violence and the other thing about zones pretty tentative. is predetermined pretty difficult once the train is rolling nobody seeing in your group can stop it but that's dangerous and yes i agree so that's why we had been organizing pizza marches and rallies to to try to switch the to try to switch the tactics that we're using on protesting to cover it government to respond to our demands and i believe everybody in the society has been working very hard for example that we are organizing general strikes we have been organizing class
boycotting campaigns because we would like to try to explore other peace all means so that we don't have she has been absent if in the meantime you should god forbid killing the body and innocent possibility or us or a policeman your movements finished and you international support will evaporate over the us i agree and i prepared to take the risk and you won't come out in public and say we need to stop this the british government has slammed last week has slammed what it called the hard core minority so the violence was unacceptable this is the sound of you international support wavering and and believing you isn't it. yes well i believe the escalation of thousands and those violent scenes as my with absolutely be very concerning to the international society when all the free world countries are advocating using peaceful means to. bring the situation to
a tree resolved but the terrible you're going to for already doesn't matter. well of course that matters but i think the most important thing is about how can we hold our government accountable and how can we bring them to respond to our demands what about the judiciary you've heard criticism from judicial institutions in hong kong pretty heavy criticism these are the bodies enjoy considerable respect around the world for the impartiality again if you're losing them this is a really bad sign for the law society for instance and all forms of honor for violence particularly against the police the use of petrol bombs against the police as well as the apparent attacks on the families of police officers and the bullying of the children at school. who proof of those methods bullying the children of police officers that school well i don't agree with those math that's still with
her after all speaking and so you don't agree with the violence and you don't agree with the bullying of the children doesn't sound as though there's much you agree with that you'll stay silent anyway now we had the f a k thing using peaceful means for example like peaceful rallies marches to. to express our concerns and demands but the point is that we do not publicly condemn those actions but still we try to use our peaceful means to use our own place for me is to try to switch the tactic of those using intimidation mafia style and intimidation we have a report of one teenage daughter of an officer being harassed by another out while she was playing sport they said to her what your father is doing is disgusting since when have children responsible for the actions of their parents. well 1st off i don't thing any family members of those police officers should be responsible for their own disgusting actions and i'm able to you're making them responsible some of
your people are making responsible believe in them harrison what i believe that is happening but. after or when the law society says it's happening yes i can deny that it is actually happening but still we're trying to use peaceful tactics to to bring the situation to a resolution and i believe like bullying family members would not be a very good way to solve the situation the hong kong bar association so do the hong kong airport constituted serious struction and was in open defiance of junctions granted by the courts in other words you broke from war do you want to live in the state governed by the rule of law or only the moves that you like of course i would like to live in a state of floor however we can see that it is very obvious that the situation of we are flying home counties being broken not by the protesters but by the government itself 1st and i believe that's why protesters are marching on the
street are taking on to the streets even though they know that it will break the law and i believe it is something you know the most important is to fight to protect the rule of law in hong kong and judicial independence but you're trashing it at the same time well i believe breaking the law to protect to the law doesn't because well it is the government that for us as us to take on the streets and to break the laws it is not a particularly so this is you know very forces you to break the law or do that the government far as i set it up to me that's your interpretation but here here are these judicial institutions rule warning you that criminal contempt as they put it impedes the administration of justice and if unchecked will inflict grave and represented damage to the rule of law in hong kong grave and irreparable damage that's what we think you're doing to hong kong. doesn't matter
well of course that matters but as i have mentioned what matters the most about whether we can actually bring a change to our political structure and government structure and that would be to come and go and would be the most important goal for us to achieve for there's this moment and i believe even forward the department of justice self as in being totally independent for now after after the handover of hong kong from their british government to the chinese government we can see that in our core values our tradition where systems being encroached by the chinese government we can see from to rescind prosecutions that the department of justice is only prosecuting in putting those processes on court while they are there and you still have independent judges you still have independent courts while. in terms of system they are independent however we can see that they're actually being very
heavily influenced by the chinese government and that they're sidestepping. of for example like the 21st you're not on 21st july you're long cases they're not prosecuting they're not taking any you have to try and stick to the court while they had been political prosecuting so many of the protesters and some of those across accused decisions. if you have a son down with the government and hold a dialogue who talks to us who could who could also rise compromises that are essential in the kind of political dialogue who in your movement could actually sit down and authorize compromises i believe nobody could represent our movement because as you know leave the letters nobody will sit down with you you're not opening doors you're closing doors when we are going origin you just said nobody could authorize compromises that we consider room for you represent you while back you have moved supposed to talk to well back in june the chief executive has tried
to approach to several stood in your there's a hong kong and we had rejected her offer because she requested a private meeting with some of this didn't you know hong kong which which is not even representing all the students in hong kong it would be a start wouldn't it it would have been a start it won't be a start it will only be a end to our movement because back in 2014 we see that carolyn tried to talk to some of the student leaders some of the leaders of the umbrella revolution however what we got are dirty after the dialogue was that. was to crackdown after our movement and then carolyn did not fear any of her any of her promises in the dialogue and we felt like especially in this leaderless movement it's very important for us to have a public dialogue with as many stakeholders in a society as possible at least we can not only have the student activists talking to kerry land ok we have to include other stakeholders you've put forward 5
principle demands of the hong kong government you and your fellow activists the government is only addressed one of them which was the extradition bill which they withdrew from but in fact according to albert chan professor of nor the university of hong kong the government responded to all of your demands just not in the way that you want it you wanted an independent investigation into police handling of the riots you didn't get that but you didn't get nothing over the independent police complaints council appointed 5 overseas experts from britain canada australia and new zealand you can get everything but they did respond well i believe what are we calling for is not only a official demand for official response from kerry lam what we are asking for is about a concrete actions by the hong kong government we're asking them to respond to our demands by taking actual actions for somebody invited these are experts from from britain canada australia new zealand i believe that is not was young and for no it's not exactly what you want to but it's something we are asking for an
independent commission of inquiry to investigate into police brutality however for the independent police commission it is followed by most of the men can support us how can we trust them how is that how nobody can put it i can trust you overseas experts from britain canada. to me and he's not the one who make decisions to handle change you also want all charges dropped against protesters who've been arrested and they've turned down. but how could they do anything else if you offer if you were found to broken the law you should be punished the same way as the police shouldn't you so why are they why are you above the law so why aren't they punishing the police they have in the past police have been hauled into court punished we cannot even identify the police because they are not showing their warrants because they are not showing their numbers when we cannot hold the police accountable when nobody can actually punish the police how come to count on
government this could be charging our creditors with rioting even though they are only participating in some peaceful marches there is that is not reasonable so there is die consider yourselves equal before the more of the we are equal before the law so why do you should you get an amnesty why if you've broken the law and the hong kong bar association the hong kong society seem to indicate that you have broken the law to be punished for breaking the law well i believe r.c. for amnesty would be the best solution would be the best resolution to let you decide to run hotter ways of law in hong kong yes what you want to yes we want but of the same time then you want an honest if you want to escape punishment for breaking the law i would not say that there is a society that you want to live in i would not say that it is trying to escape from being punished when we have broken the law i believe the reason why protests are taking onto the streets is because. we want
a government to be accountable to us we want a government to give concrete actions as monster our demands and i believe that's why we are participating in peaceful marches lawful marches ever since june however the government the police have been accusing us has been arresting us for rioting and well the reason why directing us is not reasonable ed or how can they charge us so that's why we're asking all a couple to some of some of your other actions in the but when it comes to the future the worry seems to be that you don't have much of a plan do you except to keep fighting you said recently i have no idea how these protests will end or even what will happen tomorrow we feel like there is no way back so we must keep fighting as if you're a passenger in this movement but you're not a passenger in this movement you're one of the spokes people for this movement don't you isn't it time you took responsibility for the well i think definitely i
should be taking some of the responsibilities off finding the way out for hong kong for the whole movement but the fact is when the situation hung on this like changing in a very. in a very lightning speed every day we do not see our future we do not even know what would happen in the next state because back in june back in july we did not expect the government to be exercising its emergency powers don't have a plan of word to go do we want from saying we want all our demands met in full perhaps the only plan you have been to put it we do have a we do have a plan we are very clear that we have to rethink about our we have to rethink about the future of hong kong we have to think about a 2047 debt line and i believe that is the consensus among congress are they going to 5 demands we're trying to discuss we are trying to have discussions amount
different stakeholders in hong kong about our future after 2047 the state is not just your fate and your from the protesters but millions of other people who live in hong kong who are going to have to live with the fallout from your movement and from your movements actions for many years i mean you may be happy to bring china's rules down on your head but to collapse the roof on everybody else's head in hong kong is that really a responsibility you want to you're prepared to take well 1st of all i thing to majority of hungers are still in support of the movement and i believe most of us are quite clear that and i'm getting prepared that was we are selling to move on or ones like. the chinese communist government would be using 1000 tactics to end the protests we are very clear that what the aftermath would be and i believe the majority of hong kong like to take the risk in all their to you know that in exchange of a better future of hong kong but don't you have
a responsibility to try and find a way back which preserves and strengthens what you already have instead of risking a crackdown in which you could lose everything i believe we do or i mean for the act of democracy politicians we do have to responsibility but after all i think the greatest responsibility is the hong kong government south and this is a project of the moment the british government calls for a meaningful dialogue between parties with a credible political track to protect the rights and freedoms set out in hong kong or are you capable of opening a meaningful dialogue from what you've told me so far you'll not tell you what i believe the 1st criteria of having a sincere and meaningful dialogue would be to go hong kong government itself trying to be sincere well last time when they were in fact he did in unison a dialogue they're trying to have it privately they're not willing to make it public and to invite other stakeholders in there and even when they're trying to be
light hearted come back to that point it could have been the start how could have been a start when they're not being sincere we do not believe that would be any kind of meaning for consensus made in the dialogue when they're trying to wrest our fellow protestants when they're trying to put us in jail how can we believe that there will be meaning for a sincere dialogue at least they have to stop their prosecutions 1st really not forever but the allies have to show some sincerity. some sincerity people are worried that you're becoming increasingly rigid and inflexible joseph chain who led a coalition of pro-democracy groups into the 14th since no one ever do is to say think about it or accept it anyone who does so will be severely attacked we come to a consensus we stick to that position and we cannot shift is that the way you wouldn't be able to start negotiations this rigid in flexibility you're in danger
of becoming just as inflexible as but if you want to i believe that is a question about the future of hong kong are how difficult it would go this is like mushrooming especially in the recent days when we see that there has been a ask alasia of violence while we're not achieving anything we're not forcing the government to respond i believe there had been more in my discussions and well and i believe that like peaceful means would be the only way out for us to resolve this and current situation in hong kong but a group of your partisans have been beating up people who just think differently september the 15th we had a group of beat up of 49 year old hong kong man beating monk conscious because he did to challenge what the group was doing child hughton remonstrated with your fellow activists who showed you the love china i'm chinese but they beat him up unconscious had to go to hospital he was in critical condition when he arrived but
he survived is that the way you deal with people who think differently from me. well of course that there will not be the very ideal way i do you could you don't even condemn it would i condemn any kind of. you have anyone supposed you're not going to have to answer posts inhuman treatment like this you can't even look me in the face and say i condemn this kind of in human treatment where we're not doing any kinds of public condoms but still we are trying to detect takes to a more peaceful way what about the violence businesses that are seen as on supported ho how do you imagine you're protecting democracy by trashing a.t.m. machines in starbucks cafes how does that help you preserve democracy while i believe protestors are vandalizing underground stations vandalizing those chinese companies for a reason because they will like to bring actual harm to those companies so that.
because they don't support you it is not about it oh support us it is it is about they are not why is it working for themselves they have to have their windows smashed and i have to have their a.t.m. machines trashed because they just don't think the same way as you do and you want to preserve democracy well i believe that we're definitely not big bass way however and they're doing that for a reason and they're not i mean they're trying to be rational and that's why we're not trying to condemn them publicly but still we do have the factions we do have discussions about this vandalization and there have been more and more voices about that we should actually try to explore a some peaceful way so you're taking part in the local council elections not you personally but apparently 450 candidates from the pro-democracy group are you willing to switch your attention from demonstrations and violence to politics to
the slow painstaking often tedious business of politics in order to make hong kong work better for its inhabitants are you willing to do politics instead of just instructions. well i believe the 2 things have to go parallel because one side about politics when we've got pro-democracy activists trying to get into the institutions we're trying to change to government structure by. by a democratic way by elections and at the same time we have to continue our projects so that we can put pressure on the hong kong government of south and i believe the 2 things are not contradict contradictory and that's why we have to make it go parallel and i don't believe that. we have to put all of our attention all of our focus on district council elections and try to stop any kaiser protesting that i believe that protests have to be in a peaceful way joyce you been good to feel complete so thank you.
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the boy . this is. live from berlin. chile's president moves to increase the minimum wage in a bid to quell the country's worst unrest in decades that's as police use water cannons and tear gas on protesters in the capital santiago also coming up to come up with that. in iraq protesters say security forces are shooting at them with live bullets it's a brutal crackdown on baghdad's battle of the bridges. and in ask.