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neil: you heard hank. now time you hear bob, tonight, tonight you shall, aig ceo rocket is here, is he up to suing the very government ta bailed his firm out, if you wondered, what about bob? tonight is your chance to hear from bob. on that suit and whether he is in. man many argue is at center of it or not, robert ben mo shea
coming up. before that. forget about digging out. on this spending thing washington is digging in. welcome i'm neil cavuto it is one thing for nancy pelosi to say we don't have a spending problem for the president to say there is really no great urgency to balancing the budget or harry reid saying there is no rush too deal with entitlements this year. but for house democrat to double down on spending stupid by pushing more stupid spending, well, you got to wonder. but this is true, they want more stimulus about $200 million more, who can blame them, clearly none of their leaders are trying to stop them or remotely discourage them. and members of pear are not block -- of their party are not
exactly blocking them. i don't think their intention was to encourage this. they run for a immediate nicotine spending rush any time they can get it, they d got it,n them for pushing it, it on us if we allow it david walker said stimulus is not the solution, he is so sick of watching washington dance around this issue. he alone withlice rivlin, head vice chair making this video to sort of get the message to young and older americans alike, the can kicks back. but you know we're just, still kicking the can, what is going on. >> it would be nice if we had a presidential budget, the house democrat budget is dead on arrival. there is no way it has got a prayer, last year it lost 22 votes it will lose votes this time. neil: what do you think it says
about those democrats pushing 200 million more on spending. >> said that house democrats are more liberal than senate democrats, that does not surprise me, neil, hav we have o control the budget, and spend more on investment and less on consumption, we have to get debt to as -- as a programmage to a reasonable level it has to be properly designed, the last time wspent 887 billion it was oversold, they under delivered. it didn't do anything to deal with our structural challenges, so far we're not dealing with mandatory spending or comprehensive tax refm. that is what it will take. neil: do you think that bernie marcus, the home depot cofounder, was telling me on fox news, the spenders are using a
pr war, the strong stock market, improving economic numbers as jusjustification for more spend. >> i don't buy that, i don't think that the sck marke is as pro efficient -- prefish ent as people think, we don't need to been the budget, the way that the government calculates a balanced budget is a bad joke, we do have to do, we have to start treating the disease, deal with health care costs, deal socialnsurance programs. neil: they are not. they might -- but remind me,er dayhey don't, a new pore added to our -- a few more added to our debt. all unfunded. >> that is right, that is what we need.
>> you local starkest terms. >> the full view, if we look at big number, over 70 trillio, if we end up doing -- >> how does that work? >> debt held by public, held by social security medicare trustee fund, and pensions unfunded, arrange of commitment contingency, and unfunded social security and medicare promises you add the up they go up 8 million a minute. 3 mis350 billion a month, here e good news if we can get a grand bargain, that number could go down tens of trillions of dollars even if they are phased in over a number of years, because it is a discounted cash flow number. >> you say it is about the
direction. you provide the direction you don't have t to have an end poi. >> if we have more certainty, with regard to our tax laws, and recession -- regulory policy, and demonststrate that we understand we have to get our debt down, it has to be enforceable, you have to change who is eligible for, what at what age, and what subsidy. neil: i love about dave, he ticks off people on the right and the left, thiss a mutually destructive type issue for the right and left. >> assured destruction. neil: thank you. very much david walker. all right if we get in, is it time to get out, what is washington goes 3 with a plan to ramp up spending.
some very worried market pros, saying this is a recipe for selling. monica, i think markets have been under the assumption that some cuts are better than no cuts, sequestration is better than nothing, so, if you just pullback, and say we're not going to to squat, in fact we'll do more, spend more that could derail a bill market faster than anything, right? >> it can, derail a bull market, but i think this problem is that washington is behaving like a lot of financial institutions that g themselves and the cun country into a lot of problems a few years back, because they are behaving like i'll be gone and you will begun. that is great short-term but longer tomorrow, decisions are not so good, spending may feel good because you are pumping more stimulus into the patient
that needs drug, if the long run it is not good for us, the american taxpayer will not begun, we will still be here, and we will be screwed. neil: i have to wonder if does not focus on long-term cablewy for now that is what is going to dictate things. >> i agree with you, market is looking at short-term, and market long-rm is in denial. i think every market participant thinks that democrats and republicans will come together and have a grand bargain, and can thand --kick the can down td solve the problems. because that is what the market has done. neil: do you share that view? are you bullish or cautious or what? >> neil i thinkure congress people are clown -- i think our congress people are clowns, they have proven it over and over.
i am not in denial on that. but i thinkure underlying economy as long as we stay in the free market and let people go out earn money and change the world, we'll come out ahead, a third of theillionaires reside in u.s., there is a reason, we have that free market capitalism that animallistic spirit, that bridges our country ahead of the game not some government interference or program. neil: well, i hope you are right, monica, in the meantime the government is crowding out the capital, right? it is maybe we've gotten used to that. it is like beating your head against the wall, when you stop, you still have a gaping wound but you feel better. i'm wondering whether we have a false assurance here? >> i don't feel like i have any kind of assure answer from anyone, both of the budgets not only house democratic budget but
republican budget are asking for very contentiousesques one wants to us get rid of obamacare, that was a big struggle and the other wants to us get rid of the sequester cuts, which we've been haranging about for weeks now. neil: that just wastes time, every time they do that and add to more spending, we keep talking past each other, and the problem gets out ofiole. >of control. >> yeah how do we compromise. that is the question, there is no way to narrow the gap, you are asking the other side to raise their hand, and say, i don't know what to say and auction work i am we -- away and we cannot afford that. neil: they are walking away right now with more spending in the house, i agree that neither is going anywhere for the time.
but i'm not seeing anything taming the grove of spending in the interim. so, deficits get worse, debt gets bigger problems get more inser mount able to me. >> right. soon we'll all look at detroit or greece or cyprus or mexico city. >> do you think that is where we are headed? >> pretty much, it happened during the great depression, it of created not by our economy but the government, we have the great recession right now, if we don't get out of the great recession it is a great depression. neil: all right on that happy note. how it was like, outside of that mrs. lincoln, how of the show. do you think that union unions are down and out? get ready, they are fighting back, and they have a lot of
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neil: president 79s unions to pay up, i know what you thinking unions are hurting, in places like right to work michigan they are. but idea behind something called organizing for action is, you help us unions, we will help you, our cause they say is your cause, a pro labor cause with a very big advantage. the president is behind it. so never mind your declining ranks have you a very important guy in your corner.
mercedes, what do you think? >> i think for most part, afa is in trouble. unions are not going to be paying up or giving them direct contribution to ofa, they are trying to survive. we've seen what happened in michigan and indiana and wisconsin with the right-to-work states, 24 states right now have right to work laws, looking at those figures and you have an aging 5 population of union members, and membership numbers going down, the lowest level since 1930s, i think it is not a great synergy. neil: i will say this, so-called decline. they got the president over the finish line. marshals their funds, man powers
and shear administrative girth they did it, they think that his people owoh, them. >> i feel no sympathy for union business model but sympathy for the members, their money is being appropriated and iced, membership is going down but union power is strong, when it ccmes to ofa which is not grassroots this is go pushing a agenda and its power, the next leg in the trifecta. they want to move the country forward, and fundamentally transform it the unions, there are no allies with the progressiveovement. you only have a value until they don't need you any more. >> environmentalists are discovering that. right, they want pipeline not to
be finished. keystone pipeline, unions do, i don't know who'll win that one. but i suspect unions will. >> this is how it works in dc. if the coke brothers had been successful and mitt romney was elected they would have gotten their way. neil: but, it is they might get their way wit president behind them. but declines numbers, might make it difficult even with the president. >> no question, righto work, and end of collective bargaining is bad for unions and workers. you have republican governors, like chris christie, who is supportive of private sector unions and collective bargaining, it is not the end of the world, but,hey will support a man who standing by their agenda, that is the way it works in washinnton.
it works other way. so, you know, unions -- >> i don't know that they would have needed to getting any. a lot of folks watching this, say, i see they are in trouble in washington having a heck of a time since last year in wisconsin, losing out on some big state cutbacks even in california and what is going on across pretty were the southeast. so, they beg to feel like custer? >> i think for most part, you have to think about president obama's second term agenda, which you know, parts of it may affect the unions, but he is focused on gun control, and immigration reform. in part affects the unions, but the unions are really trying to focus on the state level. fighting the battles at the
state level, and having a difficult time. you can have the big guy in the corner but that does not necessarily mean he will be able to solve your problems. neil: that is assuming they will have him in their corner. might go the other way on the ystone pipeline. >> when did he put on his comfortable walking shows, join them on the picket line? he did not, he flew over one of the union battles in wisconsin. it is a complacent relationship, the problem is look at detroit. what happens when you can't bear costs of liberal policies and union labor costs and we have a town that 1 fro1 put 8 -- went from 1 put a million people. local your long-term goal and business model, unions will lose on thi one. neil: we'll see, we'll have you back later in the show, remember what former aig boss hank
greenberg of on show explaining why he wanted to sue the government thatescued his company, and his dr. david boies on the show, saying why it made sense for him, and why aig to get onboard and join the suit, today we find out, yes or no, g, in or out? we went the very top, because we went the very top, because the aig ceo robert benmosche is today is gonna be an important day for us. you ready? we wanna be our brother's keeper. what's number two we wanna do? bring it up to 90 decatherms. how bout ya, j? let's go ahead and brg it online. attention on site, attention on site. now starting unit nine. some of the world's cleanest gas turbines are now powering some of america's biggest cities. siemens. answers.
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going following us in that, they sue the new york fed? they are now suing the new york fed. neil: all right, you remember him hank is ready to let her rip, a judge letting his lawsuit against the government continue. in effect, pitting the guy who ran aig against the tax payers who rescued the aig which is why present aig management that announced it wants to be no part of this. to aigeo robert benmosche on whether he agrees with that, welcome. >> thank you, neil. neil: not a part of this? >> not a part. neil: why not. >> we went through a careful analysis, what is said about events that occurred during the time we had to make a decision was press and no, fen you are part of it -- no ofection you are part of it, instead of asking why would aig after
getting support it got working so hard to payback america and thank america, why would they sues government. that sun fortunate, i think -- that is unfortunate, i think people are angry about the fact that we give due considering to a court order that said to aig, you must make a decision of whether you want derivative action to continue in the name of aig, so the board was required to look the lawsuit. and understand whether it should be conducted in aig a behalf for benefit of aig's current, i stress current shareholder, 92% of shares of aig wereold by u.s. to new shareholders, so this bored of director had to take the time continued to the claims, know the legal issues, understand where hank was coming from in his lawsuit, then make a judgment, is this in the best interest of the curnt
shareholders, that was required upon aig. >> you concluded it was not? >> we concluded this is not in the best interest of the current shareholders becauseemuch the legal advice we received after careful thought, and talked about argument. the prob little illty of arg -b billty of argument winning, the board concluded that, the disruption to our current company, and client and everything else and so on was not in the best interest of the current shareholders, we need to move the company forward, hank i think has veryood argument and very good argument in the case, as he i am sure talked to you bthe fact is we do not think it is the best interest of our cun current shareholders to be involved. we want the crisis behind us, we
need to move forward, we do business with 97% of -- -- >> do you think you would have a scarlet letter on you. >> the issue would b why would this make sense. i think if hank can get 55 billion god bless. neil: we should explain you came on after the fact that try to fix it and make it right, did you, that but his argument is at the time that shareholders at the time those shareholders were pardon my 4 french. >screwedroyalty, of this not a t deal for aig. and the pr uncomfortable nature of its are not a good deal, it behoov present shareholders to
wake up and realize that. >> i think that is what in best interest of the shareholders is the conclusions that the board came to, hank has some arguments. it was a testify deal. neil: a as he tried to personaly pitch you on. >> he had an opportunity to talk to the entire board. neil: how did it go? >> they made a decision not to be part of the lawsuit. neil: with him right there. >> with him right there. neil: how did he take that. >> he appreciated the thoughtfulness and concern, and he will precede. neil: did he ever talk to you personally that, hey this is a student thing. >> he made it clear to me and everyone else that the deal offered to aig is different of what was ffered to everyone else. neil: that aig rescue was under such unique terms he has a
unique case. >> he has a unique argument. the lawyers will say, does that mean that the united states is legally obligated to treat everyone fairly. i don't think if there is such a rule, they will say, they took share without due process, and without shareholder votes, he has a lot of legal argument. there are lawyers on both sides who say we do not think that is a legal argument. he believes he has got a case issue he has good facts to go with his case. we don't think that the case belonged in our belly work, we don't think i makes sense for this company to be involved in this kind of an issue, we have to we build the company, that is the decision that board made, that is where we're moving forward, we have to move this company forward, i appreciate what hank is going through, i understand what he is going through, i said main times, the man has some really good argument, but the question is, in the court of law what will
prevail. >> you are a good per have aer of ts. -- per hav i wonder whether thae period, in meltdown what i remember is it was coming down so fast. i brought up to mr. greenberger look mistakes were made. everyone is runni aroundike a chicken without a head, it might not have been fair or right but it was done, rescues were done, we got through it. knock on whatever, that is the prevailing view of management? don't revisit old wounds? >> i think that is, let's separate the two, this is a legal review looking at the situation and whether it was in best interest of shareholders of aig today.
we said not, go i back to the crisis, most things i agree with hank about, and we see eye-to-eye on how to approach things. he believes that aig could have failed, is not too big to fail, i believe he is wrong, the fact is the world was in the crisis, the fact is that aig, if it was allowed to use bankruptcy to shield itself during the crisis, might he been better for the shareholders at the time, that is his argument,t might have been better. he does not see that, heoes not realize if aig went under. it touched everything, if it
went into bankruptcy regulators would seized its property, and you would have chaos, you could never put it together again, so, you would have no financial system, you would have a crisis beyond anyone's imagination. neil: we don't know. >> it does not justify in his mind the way they took the property, and board in a way agreed. you could say it was a terrible deal, it is, and they were taken advantage of, they may have been, at the end of day have you to make a judgment, so what. neil: move on. let me ask you, when turn around at aig, you fought with the government, a couple of key ises. capping key executive pay, including, it was all about marshals and retaining and recruitingood talent, by government a standard it would
be impossible, you got your way, i was thinking of you when i heard what they are concocting in switzerland. a great bastion. what do you think? >> w have to deal with reality there is a backlash continuing. related to pay. what is most important, most -- >> last country i thought it would backlash though. >> unfortunate for switzerland, they changed law, they said shareholdersill vote, make decisions, shareholders well, but many of largest swiss institutions, the shareholders americans. >> they will regret that move. >> they will say, wait we've given hedge funds and mutual fund in america the vote overpay in switzerland. in the end if we perform, pay is
not a big issue. if we treat people fairly it is not an issue. neil: i guess is comes back to what is fair, and right, a level. and you know, tens of millions of dollars, they make a hundred million dollars, what do you think? >> i don't know, i guess if you love your sports team, and you pay them tens of millions to play ball and have fun it is okay if your team is winning, when your team is losing, they want to get rid of the bums,. neil: i think -- they should pay tv anchors, how are you feeling? >> i'm filing fine, i'm unlucky to have cancer, lucky my cancer is marching a therapy, i have great doctors, they have been able to keep me going. my cancer is somewhat ls than when started. neil: you still have it? >> they can't detect it right now, but they -- >> what kind of cancer was it.
>> i am not going to say what it is, i won't let you decide when i am going to die, i will let the doctors tell me. neil: the details of which, not to relate, but at this time, everyone said, is this a steve jobs situation? do we know if he is sicker tha we think, you know that went. >> i remember. it was horrible, some articles that came out, one in particular from "wall street journal,." neil: i remember. >> it was tough on my family, it wa saying, you know you have cancer, it will be awkward. why put people in that position. >> did you ever just want to quit out right? >> absolutely not, i started something, i wanted to see it to a good spot, we had not closed with federal reserve yet. we were just about to do that transaction, i committed to people that i wanted to do it, neil, you have to live every day, until you can't. i was in a job, i was loving
what i was doing, my family and i spending goo timin time toget. neil: did anyone say this is a threat to your life? you might die? >> for me? >> i was given 9 months to a year to live, so i knew i had until may until i was showing bad affects and i knew i had to work with the board on suck last thing i wanted for my family and tor to say, what a se he got that close, did not see it done. i wan a kleene clean, exit. it was about all of these people, you have over 30,000 people in america. neil: i know, that but, that was
my -- >> that of my focus. neil: being the self absorbed anchor that i a i would worry more about me. it not that now. did your family ever say, we know your commitment to this. but we're your family? >> they said you are going to win, so don't give up, do what you neeto do. we love you, and this is all about justoing the right thing, so -- >> the diagnosis now? >> the diagnosis and i'm doing well, and enj life until we tell you it is starting to affect you, they don't know this is so experimental, they don't know enough, so, i just live every day, and enjoy myself, and have a lot of fun, and make sure that i smell the roses, my grandmother used to say, give me my roses when i can smell them, i am joa enjoying giving roses d
smelling them. neil: the whole experience with personal and, business, did any of that enter into your decision not another la lawsuit not anotr battle however noble. to fight another court drama. >> it i the ft that, you know america gave aig $182 billion. you could argue that was not right. you can argue that how much they took to give the money was unfair. as hank will argue. but they gave the money to aig, during the horrific period of almost 2 to 3 years ofvillecasion, no one said. gee, i wonder if i could help the people of air pay u aig payt back, the theme sucked it -- people sucked it up their
children were beaten in school, they were afraid to go home people would follow them home, they are now at a point they want to move forward, clients want to move forward. they don't want us embroiled. neil: are done move on. >> move on. neil: everyone is worried about another meltdown, they point to what is going to in cyprus with government first looking to tax bank deposits then rescinding it, i don'tnow how it is going to work out the first day they reopen the bank. but what do you think of another hit? >> i think that what happened was disappointed. a enormous amount of effort and money and resources went into preserves the sanctity was a
deputy ia --deposit in the bank. what happened, yesterday, says that maybe the deposits are not protected. i think that is one thing that is a disaster. we must make sure that any depositor of a certain size knows that money is guaranteed by the governments and world, and financial system. neil: it might be guaranteed but the government could tax it out of the blue. that is what concerns me. you think not cyprus but other countries, there might be a bank run. >> i think we created a problem we need to address it. neil: do you think there could be another meltdown. >> i don't think there will be another meltdown but i think, some countries with banks not to strong or country not so strong,
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we're making it. ♪ [ male announcer ] how do you engineer a true automotive breakthrough? ♪ you give it bold styling, unsurpassed luxury and nearly 1,000 improvements. the redesigned 2013 glk. see your authorized mercedes-benz dealer for exceptional offers through mercedes-benz financial services. neil: california is so strapped it is going back in time to whack comnies with a tax, true, that is like your car dealer charging you tax for a car you bought 10 years ago. lifornia is kind of doing that, but small business about
getting rid of a tax break, and asking business to pay for today and last 5 years, tax experts and california small be owner on whether this is retro active, anand it catches on, maddi, is this going to catch on. on. >> 2 things this is not a malfeesance on small business owners part. this is just a new tax law. a court ruling that overturned this tax credit in the law, but instead of moving forward now with that new law in place, california state government decides to go back to try to reach the taxes from business owners who had no idea they had this liabilitiy, that is a first problem. the second problem, is this the new trend in state taxes? will we start seeing the cash
strapped states pick up on this. and they will weed taxpayers in the fiscal year but from before as well. neil: craig, this is a concern. if others get a cue from this watch out. >> california is a trendsetter. as a small business owner, my other friends who are small business oers we've been hit with 5 to over 100,000-dollars in fourth quarter of last year in retro active tax, that is job, and investment money and a downer on christmas. now a new one that bureaucrats at franchise tax board are making a decision, it is politicians that are out of control, california is worst with highest tax state, the highest sales tax state. we have the -- >> what are you whining about,
it is beautiful. beautiful views. >> great weather. neil: i'm worried, i'm not lawyer, but i've watched enough perry mason episodes to know i qualify as one, but it is eve legal. this is just because a body of government files like it, i say noay. >> interesting thing, this is not first time california has done this, governor. governorschwarzenegger and governor brown have signed into law the retro tax hes, i'm surprised you can find a business owner left in california, they are leaving because of this onerous tax burden. it is one thing to head into your fiscal year planning knowing what your tax levy will
be. it is another thing going into withoutnowing what they are goin on to add-on. neil: that is a billion -- brilliant point. you are just going to break that promise. >> you know, we have a super majority here in california of liberal democrats, we have a ur hungry bureaucrat, all wanting more money, as a business owner we don't know how to operate. we have the cloud over our head, we don't know when the tax liabilitiy will be. in tax we could at left anticipate it. now we worry, is there a surprise. this is unethical and immoral and wrong way to try to create bs and a business that is going to grow, that is why 5.5 companies every week leave california. >> thank you very much. 'll see, dangerous precedence. neil: democrats playing the baby
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cut spending. it is just cutting the growth in spending, mercedes, we have david, on blame getting worse. mercedes. you know, this is always a political game, both sides trying to play to their advantage, but this makes getting this budget, some control, next to impossible? >> it does, you know, i want to add, salon.com had on web site ryan's plans kills thousands, they are taking to a step further, this is going to be difficult. that is why have you senator murray's plan way on the other side, there has to come a point where they bridge the differences, but i don't know if that is possible. if we don't sort of take care of the big elephant in the room, i
don't see how we'll cut the spend, slow federal government growth, and really start hoping to have greater investment in our country as well as higher employment. neil: i think that means, that incumbent on democrats and republicans to go after their sacred cows. but when we present the extremes, you, i know a loot of them are close friends, you must say, you must say, you are crazy? >> looook. there are two things that i know are crazy, oneas an election based on paied on paul ryan's b. people really did respond. he was vice presidential nominee. the budget -- >> i don't think that one of them knew he had a budget. >> i do. i spent a lot of time talking
about it. but, during the election, ryan and romney spoke about closing tax loopholes, why not, that is a cak6sacred cow. >> fair enough, republicans argue we have given you your tax increase, before we address these, but she is right, they are open to, that i think they also said they are open to it if they get disarmament on the other side, right? >> right, here is the thing, first of all, you get certainty out of politicians, whether they have not pass a bill, pass a budgeter. it has not been scored properly, it is a good starting point. big deal. that is not a cut. but we're not having theig cusion 14yundais -- having the discussion with 1400 days
without a budget. and we're not having that, neil, forget sacred cow, we have people who are cowards, sacred cowards in political establishment they decided we'll play a game instead of fixing the problem for the american people, and lose 2 million jobs, you don't fix entitlement, you don't look at cuts, you tackle all of these issues, i you don't tackle themming is you will not solve the problem. >> we had a grand bargain on the take nel 2001. -- take ne table in 2011. then eric cantor, cut legs out from their leader john boehner, no bargain. >> memory serves me right, nancy pelosi went back at the president, don't adjust any
inflation. >> she did. but i believe that president could have gotten it through, he is the leader of the democratic party, nancy pelosi i believe would have been able it deal. neil: i just look at this trying to get this something done, and mercedes to that point, i say, both sides hole their hands jump off the cliff together there is enough blame, whether the president before blamed last president for two wars. and all that fair game, i agree. enough ofhe blame game, done, hold hands, and jump off the cliff, address your sacred cows and be done with it. jim: >> they say, they would like to ha a balanced budget,ot raise taxes.
wait, we're not throwing poles away we've already raised taxes at the beginning of the year, that is enough, we need to get the economy growing. >> throw the poles away, look at red ink and black ink and make a decision, either we fix problem based on nbers. neil: i wish i had me time, bottom line, it is coming on all sides to get over themselves or sides to get over themselves or do something or i will be like all stations come over to mission a r a final go. this is for real this time. step seven point two one two. rify and lock. command is locked. five seconds. three, two, one. standing by for capture. the most innovative software on the planet... dragon is captured. is connecting today's leading companies to places beyond it.