tv Bulls and Bears FOX Business December 15, 2013 8:00am-8:31am EST
6:00. paging doctor? i mean, uncle sam. new signs the complete government takeover of health care is gaining traction. this week the white house hiring john podesta to be part of the inner circle. and this we a new bill calling for universal health care is being introduced. is the complete government takeover on its way? i'm brenda butner. this is bulls and bears. here they are, tracey burns, jonas max bearis along with
christian dorsey. brace yourself for government-run health re? >> i think that's what they have been wanting and headed toward all along. and i'm afraid that's what they might get. here's the problem, single payer is basically like medicare is now. everyone pays in, everyone gets the benefits. the problem with medicare, to use an example, they are running a pyramid scheme. they are running out of young people to pay for the old people. the ratio used to be four to one. by 2013 it will be 2.4 to one. but that's not the only problem, it's running out of money. it's waste in fraud alone estimated by the government accountable office, $17 billion a year! it provides medicare that has okay coverage, it's just horribly inefficient. aand if we get there, you want o talk about with social security, medicare and now a single payer system, completely bankrupting the company, that's the wa to
do it. >> right. the country. >> the country, sorry. >> all right. christian, you like the single payer system. >> absolutely. it's much more efficient than the system we have right now. so much of health spending goes to add m straytive overhead for duplication of services and processes. it doesn't make any sense. doctors spend so much time figuring out how they're going to bill people for money instead of providing health care. single payer system provides much greater efficiencies, and that medicare system that gary talked about, it's actually much more popar than private insurance is because people see that they're getting better care and less wasnd less administrative overhead. >> tracey, it may be more popular than obamacare right now because at least you can enroll on it. do you think the aer over obamacare and all the problems that it has might push americans toward single payer systems? >> could anything be better, basically? the bar is that low right now.
look, i get what christian is saying that administratively there are some perks, but it's not all about cost. you'reoing to have lower services, watch your medical research go down the toilet, you're going to see a lot of people not getting what they need. sure, the billing system is better, but that's not what it is all about. and let's admit it, it's going to be overused and abused much like all systems that are free, one price covers all, this is not our problem. >> if you like the dmv, you're going to like a single payer system because the government's running it. >> yeah, that's very accurate. and look, president obama right now has the lower approval rating that the crack-smoking mayor of toronto, rob ford. your name is not gog to get much passed rht now, it doesn't have the political capital to do it, but when you look at the single payer system, look at the certain anecdotal things n the united states, if you are diagnosed with diabetes,
93% of people get care within the first six months. in canada, 43%. in england, 15%. if you have health coverage right now, your coverage is going to be more expensive, you're going to get less quality, if you don't have it, that's the different thing we're dealing with altogether. that's an economic argument. is going to be costly no matter whathe transition going on right here. and all we're dealing with is who paid, we're not dealing with the problems, and that's health care itself. >> jonas, you think this is pretty inevitable, that it's really coming at us. >> it's not only inevitable but accelerating because of the current state of the affordable care act. dual availability is important for the government, it is not just about efficiency. they can't pull off certain things. once you get this frankenstein public system where there's a website and gold and silver plans, that's too much like something amazon would do or something. the dmv doesn't make your user website, they don't have certain levels of service, it's something they can pull off to give you the license. medicare is something the government can pull off as well as medicaid.
it is mostly just moving money around. the current plan is a little too complicated. it is not just a mandate to get health care. we had that, that would have been feasible, it's a little too private market, frankly, and people are mad because young people are going to pay for old people and healthy people are going to pay for sick people. it is so mh simpler to make taxpayers pay for it. and those on both ends, those who are not 65 get on medicare, and we are already seeing most people go to dicaid in the ates, so that's the direction we're going in. >> but wait, that's to brenda's point then we are choosing mediocrity overcrap. that's where we are. you take this crappy plan or we go with the one sort of better. it's not right! >> where we were before was a very broken system. so it's not like we're going from mediocre to crap, we are going from something that was absolutely going to consume is country. health care spending before the
affordable care act. the same rate but single payer is better. >> go ahead, gary. >> first of all, i am -- i just cannot agree with christian more and totally disagree with jonas. payroll taxes would have to go up almost 25% to pay for medicare. you know, christian paints it as this, oh, my gosh, this great thing that we're going to have that we can't afford! the other thing is, he talks at, oh, my gosh, the billing system is so much more efficient, are you kidding me? there's no incentive in the medicare system as it is today for a doctor to be efficient. the doctor could be terrible and he gets paid the same through the medicare system as the top doctors. a doctor can order up 20 tests and the most moronic doctor to graduate from harvard but he gets the same amount of money. this is going to bankrupt the system just like medicare is going to bankrupt it. only ten-fold because we are supposedly going to have everyone in the system. this is ludicrous people are
getting behind this thinking it's a good thing. it's terrible! jonas, take him on. because he said -- >> gary is 100% right on the taxes. the payroll taxes would have to go so high, they have to go up anyway to fix the current problem, which we just talked about, but if we did this, let's say if you're 55 or older go to medicare, and we're getting taxes -- i'm just saying people would prefer that than being forced into a plan $200 to $300 more than they were paying. that's the path of least resistance for most people. i'm not saying it's a better system, but it's doable. given the disenfranchise of those, that's probably the direction we are headed. if you pay over $100 a month, then your health insurance goes up $200 month, what do i care? that's what's going to happen >> john, what does that do to our economy? >> it's going to hurt our economy. look, this isn't free. we keep saying everyone gets single payer magical health
insurance, it isn't free. it's going to cost people a lot of money, especially transition period. imagine what we're doing. we've got a business that is broke, that's health care. you've got fraud, inefficiencies, and you're sticking 50 million more people into that business and making them customers and saying that's going to fix it? no, it's not going to fix it. it's going t exacerbate the fractures and make things worse. we are only arguing over who is paying, and that's the tail and not the dog. >> that's going to be the last word. thanks, guys. lawmakers patting themselves on the back for passing a budget, but neil and the gang are saying not so fast. what's tucked inside it could have you paying up for those patdowns. that set the bottom of the hour, but up here first. major winter storms slamming the u.s. and with just ten shopping days to go before christmas, will this wicked weather be the grinch that steals holiday sales? ♪
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ten more shopping days until christmas. we already know store traffic was dn 22% during last week's mess. tracy, are retailers worried? should they be? >> they should be. here's why. when you go to a store, there's the me factor. i buy something pretty for you, brenda, and take mething home for me, too. you're not going to have that if you are not in the stores touching, feeling and looking at stuff. you'll go online and order what you need and be done. so retailers will suffer at the end of the day. we have seen it already. it's a shortened holiday ason to begin with, less time to shop, thanksgiving weekend was a big disappointment, and everyone is worried about what's going on with d.c., taxes, so people already have a tightened budget to begin with. they should be worried about this storm. >> john, you can go online, but then there's the issue about delivery. >> yeah, there is the issue about delivery. tracy, pro-v golf balls, you can buy those online for me for christmas. no touchy-feely, nothing.
i disagree with my friend tracy. retailers are going to come out if it was sunny and say, people were in the park and that's the reason nobody was in thetores. they have warned for weeks about a slow christmas season. the spending for top averagefro person. i think this is going to hurt, but the retailers are going to be blamed for slow sale. >> you are not worried my christmas present is going to make it to you, are you? >> not at all. i hope you like the pro-v one golf balls. i tell you what, brenda, here's what normally happens. this is like, when we talk about on this show, the floods or the hurricanes or the other natural disasters hurting the gdp, what happens is it shifts the sales. so to tracy's point, i agree with her, she makes an excellent
point, but then people say, if i can't get out december 23rd or december 24th, look, i'm not going to not buy you something. you just might get your gift and my gift a little bit later. t same with the delivery. i know my ups shipments are now a day or two late, so maybe they won't get here december 25th. maybe they get here december 27th. so it might shift things into maybe january, i don't think retailers on the whole will be hurt. >> christian, what about you, are you worried about your golf balls making it to you? >> i am not. i can celebrate gift receiving an day of the year. so it really doesn't matter if it happens by the 25th. >> that's big of you. >> yeah, it is. i'm a good guy that way. but the bigger issue is that people just don't have as much money to spend. and we can debate the reasons for it, but the fact is people just don't have a lot of disposable income that goes into all of this. so really, that's going to be the biggestthing that's going to put a damper on this holiday season nd bring out the grinch in all of us. >> jonas, you hate the cold, we
can see from where you are. where you are winter weather is 60 degrees, but are you worried that this could really hurt a very important time for tailers? >> i don't know what you're all worried about with the weather anyway, but let's pretend you have to worry about it. i think we have the best sales ever for holiday because the consumer's doing okay, they are not great but doing the best ever. they are going to find a way to shop. the american consumer will get there. i don't know if the internet's going to save you because you are like, i don't want to go out, it's lousey so let's go to the internet, or you go out there, but it's going to happen. the holiday travel, it's going to happen. some people look for an excuse to go to the in-laws for a week, driving their dog, they would rather play video games over talking to people about the improvement of their website, i'm not saying people do that but they are looking for an excuse. and people will use the weather to say, let's not do that drive.
then maybe they won't have to bring the gifts on time. i think let's send more gifts because we are not going and maybe they will spend more than last year. >> okay, tracy. >> on behalf of the children of the world, santa claus comes on the 25th, not the 27th. that's a huge problem. there are a lot of parents out there worried about that. and they can't get out there shopping, larry b. >> no. and so what you're saying is you don't want my gift to you unless i can get it to you on the 25th. a dozen golf balls. >> we'll be practicing our swing there, tracy. so don't worry if you didn't win the megamillion last night. one in five of you are already super rich. yeah, you! super rich. ♪ [ male announcer ] here's a question for you:
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okay, listen up. if you didn't win the mega millions la night, don't worry about it. one in five of you will be in the top 2% anyway. those are the odds that your household will make at least $250,000 a year. what's the media's take on this news? the associated press is fueling income inequality. john, take that on. >> look, i would love to be able to sit around and sing cpfire songs and everyone makes the
exact amount of money, but that's not the real world. i want to live in the real world where derek jeter makes the same amount of money as us. look, if you're a senior or poor and your interest rates are so low right w, you're not making any money. the rich are getting richer because of that. if you have political influence, you get a tax break. the rich get richer because of that. the middlelass has been destroyed. this is the fault of the administration's policies. >> krchristian, shouldn't we be celebrating it instead of bashing it? >> i want incomes to grow for everybody, but i want to make sure people who contribute to incomes growing get a chance to share in it. we have this culture where if a company does well, the ceo and the senior managers make all the money, but the production workers dot see their incomes rise at all. there's something patently unfair about that. >> gary, what's wrong with income inequality anyway? >> exactly, brenda. the first question is, is there
income inequality? the measurements that they normally use don't take into accou transfer payments and all the other income credits and unemployment insurance, unemployment benefits. so if you look at spending, which is probably a better way, the top fifth spend about two-and-a-half timeshat the bottom fifth spends per household. that hasn't changed in 25 years, but your bigger point is and john makes a point, what's wrong with it? when obama went to harvard law school and assuming he got a's, we want him to get a's to be president of the united states. we don't want him to say, we're going to take your a and make it a b so the bottom guy can get an "a." >> that's ludicrous. >> this country is on an amazing
trend that's been going on for decades. no country can keep up with us. at the rate we're going, they are going to have to call to get you to show up to buy a ticket. there's a concern that inequality is good to a point because it maes you work harder to achieve the things you have. it's not that the bad boy makes 1/100th of what the bat boy makes, but when their salaries go up and his doesn't, that's when off problem. they don't shift around the tax burden. they have negative tax rates at the bottom. it doesn't work. so we have to get everybody moving along. >> okay. but tracy, shouldn't we reward success? >> exactly. i think that's what the problem is. why does the bat boy have to make more money when derek jeter keeps hitting home runs? why does the production line have to keep making more money when the ceo is brokering the deals overseas? there is a reason for the inequality. some people are doing bigger, better things.
you know what the problem is? we keep handing out welfare, we keep giving people higr unemployment, things like that, and it promotes mediocrity. geez, we should all want to aspire to get better. that's the problem. we are keeping people at these lower levels because to john's point of the adminisation's policies. >> okay. that's the last wor thanks, guys. thank y to christian, we appreciate having you. so what just happened at a major boeing plant that shows unions may be blocking new jobs in america? mine was earned orbiting the moon in 1971. afghanistan in 2009. on the u.s.s. saratoga in 1982.
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predictions, gary b., take it away. >> brenda, casinos, i went to a casino on thanksgiving and it was mobbed. i think the same will be for the holiday season. i know, i'm a crazy guy. mgm is up 40%. >> we love that side of you. polar bear on that. >> you have to gamble those stocks. >> all right. john, your prediction. >> i discovered less than two wes ago i like this stock. it's up 20% in th next four or five months. >> i didn't even know they were still along, so i'm going to say bear. >> the unions and boeing couldn't come to an agreement on pension numbers, so boeing, i'm going to go build the planes somewhere else. the unions blew it again. >> jonas, your prediction. >> americans have never been
richer. $77 trillion in wealth. time to buy some eensive luggage and go on an expensive vacation. >> by the luggagehe stock, how does he talk that fast? >> are you talking to me? fixing the budget, hi, i'm neil cavuto. depending on your point of view, your budget works, but whatever. that budget deal passing the house and heading to the senate next week in passing the buck to tvelers. it doubles the so-called airline fee to raise more cash are. you feeling saferyet? ts is about $5.60 or so each flight to keep us safe. nd it's double what it was but it's good because we're safer. >> well, yeah, also t