a go. ♪ >> voters are ticked. welcome come am melissa francis in for neil cavuto and thobama administration investing millions from the health care insurance mandate. americans whose policies were canceled won't be penalized. arkansas governor says democrats still have a lot to do to sway the public by november's election. and that's a long way away. >> people have to remember that 2000 cortinas year in which they try to navigate this impossible
health care nightmare. melissa: the president is betting that things will clear up when the dust settles. everyone will have better insurance and they will forget the nightmare that it took to get there. >> yes, everyone will have a eunuch want for christmas as well. [laughter] melissa: my kids would love that. don't joke with me. >> structurally obamacare was designed to fail because of a couple of reasons. it was going to add a lot of sick eople and put tem in the pool. somehow magically with all of these new people taking one these new people taking more now on a putting lesson, the president said that you are going reduce the cost. melissa: and i went always press people. i just don't understand how you think that that map is going to work. they would say that there is tremendous cost savings that will pay for these expensive people. lo and behold, we haven't seen those tremendous savings. >> the only way can it can work is if you have an extraordinary
infusion of very youngnd healthy d very inexpensive people who are paying more than the market. they are staying on their parents policiesntil they are 26. and they just are going to take it. melissa:y mother-in-law's policy was canceled. casting aside the ones that we don't lik, do we have the ability to do that? >> i don't think we are. the republicans can sing likely delayed make changes and the response was always that it is the law of the land and that was the big answer. well, if it is, then you can keep dog al ofthe ings
you' doi to ange t b hepesent day,e mes t wi thi nwide of what ere oin o , wee ing del the plemtati, leyou ck up a catastrophic policy, let's roll back a few weeks when he id that the reason that you had to have the obamacare policy was because of what people had before, it was junk insurance. melissa: you thought you liked it, but it was actually a terrible policy you should not hav had. >> right. and did he get better allof a sudden? >> no, if it's a du policy, it's a junk policy. and so i think the president has talked himself into a deep hole. and whatever he does, it is not going to fix it becaushe keeps changing his own tune and position. melissa: i always go back to the math. there's a lotf people that signed up because they were thrilled and desperate and willing to sit through whatever it took on the website because they didn't have any health
care. but right now, who are paying for those people? >> the taxpayers will pay for it. you will be heavily subsidized. but the 15% that we thought we would keep hearing, a lot of those just didn't want it. but there are people from obamacare will work, it will be the very sick people. but we could have done was fixd that and not disrupt the insurance for the other 85%. >> lee would've done a is to subsidize it. there's no ther way. put them in anindependent poll. and then we do it where we have co-pays and deductibles and premiums, and it's stale. and then they get impoverished by their disees, many that are beyond the capacity of any family to pay for it. melissa: we roll back time, we had this option like you just described, that would ensure these folks. but the upside is that it's not going to disrupt the rest of the
health care industry. if we would've had that at this period of time. because it is -- it's more one of government. and anytime you get government involved, it is a disaster. it is bsically what we have done. >> yes, and we already had a model. it was passed in 1982 by the tax equity family responsibility act. and it made it possible for families who had this to be placed within the medicaid system without having to be impoverished to qualify for it and it really is the way to make this work and it can work in a dozen plus the family's budget and i doesn't skew the market. >> yes, we were talking about this, the very beginning of this. and i'm wondering -- imean, what does the public at large, what is their perception? it so hard for me to tell. i look at the polls andthey say different things.
67% say that they would like to delay obamacare. so do you really think in your heart that they think it this is a mistake? >> if you look at what has happened, this is the only bill that i can think of where the american support has waned as time has come on. people get used to it, they get more familiar and they begin began to say that it's not that bad. but in the case of obamacare, it was split down the middle and now you see the numbers continuing to move with people saying that this iseally not working. and it's not just a website. melissa: affect the tip of the iceberg. we appreciate your time. okay, so this isn't going to help democrats either. administration officials knew about the security risks before launch, but they still didn't do anything to fix it.
analyst says that there were 12 sites that prove it. >> i didn't actually happen to the sites is i identified a number of vulnerabilities inside of a number of state lp exchange webpages. >> what did you find? >> well, what i found was that a number of states had webpages that are portable with very simple explications of vulnerability. melissa: i know that you found a couple that were as vulnerable and i'm surprised by that. kentucky, rhode island, were those better? >> they were not ortable to this flaw. kentky and rhode island especially. but there were a number of states whose health exchanges
were vnerable to this. melissa: what is the particular thought you were talking about? >> there is flaw in the programming that allows what is known as a road access point to collect user credentials and names and passwds nd if a hacker has access to that information, and here she also has access to all of your personal information as well. and i think that that information cathen be used to commit identity fraud. melissa: the areas that have this portability, new york, nevada, i live in new york. would you just avoid the website altogether? >> not necessarily. but i would not recommend signing up or accessing your accounts from a public wi-fi service provider. melissa: kennedy fixed wimax much we have heard is that it's
very hard to patch them and you have to start over from scratch and what is your opinion? >> i know for a fact that the vulnerabilities can be fixed.. six weeks after we contacted the state of minnesota, they agreed to sit down with me and i met with them and i explained the vulnerability and i told them how to fix it and in less than 24 hours it was fixed. melissa: mark, thank you for coming on. it is friday, that means we are letting you control a segment and we wan you to send us a tweet. let us know who is not in washington and he was nice. and later we will read your responses. the first, get ready for a not so happy new year. some of the market watchers saying that 2014 is going to be a disaster for some. a disaster for some. find out why ♪ hi honey, did you get e toaster cozy?
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>> where you see it going? >> i think you'll take out the 2009 well and it' up to the financial individuals. >> that's a long way down. melissathat best economic minds in the country worrying about this much we get our spending under control. general david walker is confident -- is incompetent confident at the parties will come together, sorry. when the think it will happen? >> i am not a stock predictor and i know about fiscal sanity, i know about the numbers and we a living in a bble right now even though the federal reserve is going to taper this by about $10 million a month. it's far more than the deficit. and we it ended up avoiding a government shutdown, but we are not dealing with the things we
have to deal with to restore fiscal sanity. we have gotten so good at ignoring these things. you look at the market and it is up today. we still saw go higher in light of that. but when the chckens come home to roost and what is the thing and finally that finally set off the reality of the situation? >> and interest rates wise, the value of the dollar declined significantly. and that is when it happens a only god knows if and when this will happen. melissa: what would make otr countries decide that we are really not going to pay our deb
that? a stop in, when we were going to give a couple budget deals are getting sequester. >> let's be clear. the united states will never default on its debt because it is guaranteed by the constitution of the united states. and the question is what interest rate will we have to pay. right now we don't have to rely upon other people. the federal reserve is buying alof our new debt and more and the key market plaaers including china haverty decided that they are not going to buy our long-term debt but short-term debt in order to mitigate this and currency risks. so we are living in a bubble. we need to get our fiscal house in order and the federal reserve needs to get back to more normal monetary policy. and only when that happens only know what real interest rates are. right now we don't know hat the interest rates are.
melissa: you mentioned this and it's really a shell game that is going on, i don't think enough people are worried about. what is the dangerthat? >> well, the danger is you can't spend more money than you make. melissa: we can then we do. >> you can do it for a period of time, but it's not a sustainable strategy. there are other countries have tried to do that in the past, not as large, and we are not exempt from the laws of this aad prudent finance. and hopefully as part of the debt ceiling women, you're not going to get a grand bargain to get anew president, but least we could agree upon a goal. let's get public debt to gdp and keept there. and that will force the issues that i have mentioned. health care reforms, t
refor, it will force them onto the table because you just can't get there without dealing with those. melissa: dav walker, that's a very sobering. so what happed to all of go right wing extremist talks? >> mm last two days with william paw and i spent a lot of time and. and i've grown to really like him. melissa: has he been dipping in the holiday eggnog? the holiday eggnog? has he turned a new leaf on the this is the quicksilver cash back card from capil one.
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things. they are obstructing things and it's totally unprecedented. melissa: and this is the senator reid that we don't know. >> i met with william palmer last few days. i have grown to really like im. he wants to get things done here. and i find that wonderful. melissa: who was that guy? harry reid praising rand paul for crossing party lines. going to liz macdonald now. figuring it out, hashing it out. >> i also like what the senator said. i hope i don't ruin his reputation. but that was so funny. but it's always great to try to reach across party lines to get things done in washington dc. this is a refreshing moment and let's revel in it.
melissa: adam, i think maybe he was drinking too much eggnog. [laughter] >> i think it is a good pre-christmas moment and i happen to agree with liz macdonald. we're i agree if this is an aberration. maybe he was in a good mood, maybe they did have a good meeting. maybe he is optimistic. unfortunately, we know that it's not going to last. melissa: that's right. suggesting anything that they can work together or that any of them wants to reach across party lines and i think that is wht the country needs the. melissa: what exactly do you think they would achieve? it is hard to imagine what they would come together on. >> absolutely. i can understand where you are coming from. >> they still have to have immigration reform.
andthere is still, you know, there's government spending. because congress understands this. but the question is this a good thing for the united states? we saw that in calirnia. whether or not it's good for the country remainto be seen. melissa: is rand paul becoming cool all of a sudden? may be here he is the guy that everyone wants to like? >> there is an ab in the flow these sorts of things. he is articulate, he has a following. and politicians. and i say this in positive way. politicians understand these things when you see someone who has a following, it would be correct to have good instincts work with them. and whether we are talking of these who are other leaders, i
see him as opportunities for politicians to be working with each other across the aisle. in the ccuntry was built upon compromise. we will have a budget. too many republicans in particular. but also som democrats have said that i don't like the budget. i don't like it. well, too bad, your job is to compromise the. melissa: i mean, i don't know, if you're a fan of small government, you wouldn't would think that this is built on gridlo. >> the entire country of belgium, it ran without a budget. for years and years. and we don't want to look like that. an we can't do budgeting on continuing resolutions. but it is a part of things of the american people are not aware of. people need to come together and get confidence back, which is really something that has been gone for a long time. >> i like this, harry reid said
that although he is well aware that political opponents thrive on making him miserable, adobe to give you names that the handful of people out there are part of us. and he only wants to make me miserable part of the time. >> i think it's good for political antagonist to fight with each other. it's good for them to disagree with each other. and business peple do this all the time and they say that we have anidea and somehow says that's a terrible idea. okay, let's talk about it, that's what we should be doing. and let's then move forward. >> it is true. wondering what these guys are like together behind closed doors. here's the netwo and we may fight on he show and then we ar all in the elevator and all
friends. these guys want to stab each other on the elevator what? >> senator chuck schoener said that i like talking to them as well. >> thank you guys, i appreciate it. melissa: coming up next, how local sam is doing the same local sam is doing the same thing here and it's only getting [ male announcer ] e new new york is open.
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to remove political content. then brian doherty says that the u.s. has been looking like a nightmare. >> it is the definition of it in 1984, the big government was capable of throwing information, people that didn't want you to fall down the memory hole. if the government has the company discover things from their server and google goes one and complies, that is extremely frightening. the nsa scandal says that the government wants to do this and they also want to control everything wread in the digital age. melissa: what are they asking? >> in a lot of cases, it is -- they are calling it a defamation thing where they or they think that something written were a video on youtube portrays a government official on a bad light and they are asking about that as well.
they are making copyright claims that the government produces and politians speeches and i do want to say that google does not go along with these all the time and they are good enough to warn us and the reason we know about this is because google fits into the transparency report about this and certainly these solutions to the defamation has been the same as defamation of character for anything else. not trying to wipe the alleged definition out of the public record. the. melissa: i'm confused because it's like an american pastime. there are whole shows a night based on doing ts in a hysterical way. and what what makes this so much more to various? >> well, it ishe pt whe they're trying to stop a and they are trying to say that we don't want these expressions to be available. >> what becomes particularly offensive? >> we don't know.
anything that the police officer judged as signs, we are going asked google to get rid of it. and again google doesn't just bend over and do it all the me. but it's extremely upsetting. > google is on this pr campaign and it looks like a lot of the social media sites and websites have cooperated in the past with the nsa fishing for information. suze is part of their pr campaign to say wait a second, we are being forced to do things by the government and you should understand that and those that were? google has been trying to separate itself from the way the government uses it to approach things on the right. they cried foul and was revealed that the nsa was probably grabbing their data links. and indeed, this information we are talking about that come from google itself.
every year they released their transference airport and you can look it up online and it lists the reasons in numbers and google definitely wants us to think that they are on our side at least aittle bit. but i they were on our side completely, they would never comply. melissa: i'd guess you are right. judges have asked us to remove them from critical infortion and this includes shining a light on the conct. local institutions don't want people to find information about their decision-making process. that's not good. >> right, that is not a part of it. and even ifthey think they should have a legal recourse, they should never be too wiped out the expression, it should either be trying to set the story straight or you shouldn't be able to just say okay, les wipe us out the.
melissa: okay, thank you so much. melissa: backlash for making big bucks. e baseball players have fans [ male announcer ] how can power consumption in china, impact wool exports from new zealand, textile production in spain, and the use of medical technology in the u.? at t. rowe price, we understd the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 70% of our mutual funds beat their0-year lipper average t.owe price. invest with confidence. with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing. [ male announcer ] if we could see energy... what would we see? ♪ the billions of gallons of fue that get us to work.
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melissa: if greed is so bad, why is there a backlash against this? baseball players making far more than many. joe perry says it is the same newthat came out about banker pay, and the media would jump all over it is it always media's fault? >> yes, absolutely. [laughter] >> is always the media against the bankers and corporations. melissa: you poor thing. and why areyou not weeping?
[laughter] so jonathan, what do you think? why is there no outrage over professsonal athletes? >> well, professional athletes are only doing it for the team. and that is athletes that are being very altruistic. and they are interested in making money and that seems to be a very bad thing. >> they had the highest average pay for the 5th consecutive season. an astonishing $8.1 million. actuallyheard someone in a radio interview say that the reason why they are so bad is because the yankees are overpaid and fat and lazy and they don't care. so those are some harsh rds. what do you think? >> well, i think first of all that it is -- it's a problem
with where the priorities of the american people are out. the baseball salaries and no one is saying a word. cket prices keep going up. the ballplayers are in it for the love of the game and the money. let's face it. >> the only problem people should have are those who are paying those wages. and highly paid sports srs are worth it. just like a good ceo, a good sport star makes multitudes for the company for which they work versus what they actually make otherwise. >> we are keeping to go up and up. and i don't know. are we getting a? i think that we are selling a
stock. and with eople, the economy is down, people are uncertain with what igoing on in washington and they want to be enrtained, so they overlook the prices that they are paying. and you look at this, they are providing jobs, they are providing with the economy and th country are doing, and thinthat they are rth more than their salary. melissa: you are a brave man. joe is trying to make the point that these ceos are pilloried in the media and out in the public in general. >> both are valable. but it is determining what it is worth. including he is not worth this amount of money or that amount
of money. and so more power to them. the same thing with the ceos. and i think it is up to us in this guide. we vote with ourollars, we don't go to the games i think the players are overpaid.d. melissa: my family is tampa bay did bay fans and t getting emptier because they're not playing well and people are voting with their dollars. when you see ceo running a company, you don't like it. it's the american way. we vote with our dollars on show, i give you the last word. >> i like that. we vote our dollars. we have to pay more attention to both sides othe salaries,
except for the fact that i look at the families who suffered paying high ticket pris for baseball games. the. melissa: guys, thank you to both of you. next up, a very special holiday edition. who in washington would make this year's naughty list? send m a tweet next. ♪ ♪ rocking around the christmas tree ♪ ♪ ♪ hmm. mm-hmm [ engine rev] ♪
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melissa: it is time for you to let loose and tonight's holiday edition. david asman is hereto react with what you are shouting about on twitter. first off, who in washington has been naughty or nice? john boehner. senator harry reid. another. harry reid has to be a tough choice. merry christmas. and no such thing as a nice list in this case. >> that is harsh. >> let's start at the top, president obam, for making promises that he couldn't deliver on. melissa: that is very knotty. >> leading the nation down a path of dependency instead of independence and always accusing others of harsh rhetoric when he is the one who does it. and then you can see the other one i have.
>> there was someone in between. >> yes, he is allowing himself not to be pushed around by politicians but also by wall street and the common man suffs as a result. melissa: chip wilson, the founder of lulu lemon, said the reason why the pants didn't perform well, he said it's not the pants come into your big fat butt. i think he said slightly different words, but a lot of women inside the beltway and without a belt. we were all about that. >> okay, again i started to talk about this, ted cruz, he stood up on principle. when everyone else told him to
sit down. even as they were public and opponent, like john mccain, calling m stupid. and he proposed measures compared to wifebeating. and now they are supported to most americans. for placing his party in crystal-clear oppositions to a vastly unpopular party just before the nature of the election. melissa: so what about jeff bezos? i mean, he knows how to take risks. >> that's right, some people have a roblem, but he definitely knows what he's doing. >> it was ju like so much, i was trying to figure out where to draw the line. next up, is it okay to re-get a
present? fox news has shown that up to 70% of people are okay with this. and just make sure that your original gift or is not the cipient. and chia pets are the only things that should be rejected. finally, so have you ever rejected? >> yes, i have. i got my wife all this stuff and we traded it in and these cufflinks were as a result. >> that is returning. >> it was repeatg to myself the. melissa: are you unclear? >> you just give gifts and then they go their merry way, erever they want to go, if someone wants to reject it, it's
totally up tothem. melissa: it can be very dangerous. i just don't know. you can do if you guess what everyone. even if it's giving them to others. melissa: coming up next, why investors could oon be ditching warren this is the quicksilver cash back card from capital one. it's not the "fumbling around with rotating categories" card. it's not the ting blindsided by limits" card. it's the no-game-playing, no-earning-limit-havg, deep-bomb-throwing, give-me-the-ball-and-i'll-take- it-to-the-house, cash back card. this is the quicksilver cash card from capital one. unlimited 1.5% cash back onvery purchase, everywhere, every single day.
so l me ask you... at's in your wallet? open to innovation. open to ambition. open to boldids. that's why n york has a new plan -- dozens of tax freeon l ross the state. move here, expand here, or start a new business here and pay no taxes for ten years... we're new york. if there's something that creates more jobs, and ows more businesses... we're open to it.
stay away from target stock until this blows over? what do you think. >> but a lot of consumers felt the same way. but we are not going to know if the damage is significant. >> this is like a natural disaster, a hurricane, whatever, it just happened to hit in a town and a country and coastline melissa: it happened to people who are going in on foot, you don't expect it in person. i feel like people are going to steer clear of this for a little while. >> i think the average consumer ignores this and i think they come in and say that this is terrible. and some will avoid it. and i think that -- if it drops
any furtherer, i think it's a buying opportunity. melissa: a new study showing that we have a new struggle with innovation. so maybe maybe we should a part of that. >> yes, i have become a little reticent about technology and innovation. and you're happy to sit back. and jeff bezos was 33 when amazon went public. and so what does that tell you? >> i don't know, this is like you can't teach old dogs new tricks. and they should demand their money back. >> exactly. the one thing, i would have a different opinion because the one thing that the youngsters
don't have that experienc so i'm going to go with the older ceo becauseethey got those two factors. i don't care what kind of technology they have at their disposal. >> just determine the last time we said we didn't need to listen to warren buffett any longer. it was right before the internet bubble burst. and now he has lasted all the way since then. >> is always the exception that proves the rule. name another individual that has turned things around. i think that lewis still still shy of 50 are sold under my avengers 51 we turn this around. melissa: what we sag? >> look at guys like richard branson. turning money out of souvenirs. he gets an idea. jeff bezos is the same way. he understands how to take risks. i think there's a lot of guys
out there that do. and this includes what tools you're using to do it. see what you trust those guys? is that inspire confidence? is an inventor and innovator. >> bill gates, juswth every one of these guys, steve jobs, they need this. the guy brought in a guy from pepsi, i think he brought it in to help at a time of transition. and i think that they do need light hand they can learn these skills and move on themselves. >> he seems to be able to reinvent and remarket again and
again. >> yes, i think that elon musk is part of this and i am fascinated. there's nothing he can't conceive. melissa: here comes the beautiful music. it is time for the nightcap. gary smith, wre you watching this week? >> i am watching the credit card companies, mastercard and amazon. they are making all kinds of all-time highs. maybe that means that i have underestimateted things. >> i am watching holiday car sales.
kennedy: the teams that we adore her and knowing no bounds. and the players and teams and ners and fans, when they cross the line. concussions and subsidizing stadiums, we are in it to win it. tonight, the topics that go through our heads. we are "the independents." it is time to play ball. hello, i am kennedy. i have matt welch a