tv Making Money With Charles Payne FOX Business April 18, 2016 6:00pm-7:01pm EDT
we have a big vote coming up tuesday. that vote is so vital. we have to win by big numbers. we have a system that's absolutely rigged. we have a rigged system. charles: right now trump is coming into new york and leaving new york. the bigger question is will he get all 95 delegates. joining me national sportsperson katrina pierson. ted cruz got 14 out of 14 delegates. he got another 3 out of 3 in south carolina. i know you guys don't like the delegate system but what can you do about it? >> we are going to expose the delegate system. we do expect to win handily in new york. sweeping the state would be great and if we don't, it's still a win.
senator ted cruz did not win his home state by 50%. charles: it would help to give one state over 50% to say hay, listen, it would be also amazing considering that after this northeast swing, those other states are critical. >> he will do very well in the states coming forward. senator ted cruz is in fourth place. senator cruz by the end of april will be mathematically eliminated. the onatly phway he has is the disentrance chiesment just like in georgia where voters didn't count. charles: he's playing this delegate game better than he is so far.
how far is donald trump willing to go to play the delegate game? >> he's not interested in giving out goodies. that's not very democratic, is it? we are talking about voting for someone to represent you. the system is flawed. everyone realizes that which is exactly why they want mr. twrowm stop talking about it. when you have an election and those delegates are awarded, to find out after the fact those delegates can go to someone else has been hurtful to. people so the illusion of the democratic process has been lifted. charles: apparently your campaign, they jumped on it and said we can't start -- the actual delegates themselves. it's one thing to go after the system.
it's a delegate balancing act, isn't it? >> it is a delicate balancing act. strong-arm tactics is what people are using for those and that's scary. we are supposed to have this democratically elected process. as more people begin to understand on the democrat side, we are see can the american people awakened to this idea their votes don't count at all. charles: ted cruz is unrelejt on his attacks on the strum candidacy. we have ted cruz's national spokesperson with us. how do you respond to donald trump saying the system is
corrupt, it's just not any good, it's not representative of the voters and the american people are not being represented here? >> donald trump needs to realize if he thinks it's complicated to run for the president of the united states, it's far more complicated to be president of the united states. if he thinks wants to defeat isis but he can't appear at the colorado convention or doesn't respect the delegates and activist republicans voting here, that's unfortunate for him. this is a contest that spans 50 states, five territories and the grass roots base of the republican party, and that's who's represented at this convention. >> the fact of the matter is a lot of these conventions -- it's not the grass roots individuals,
but representatives. you can say these are representatives of grass roots. >> let me tell you something. i served as chairman of the california republican party for four years. i was elected by the activist grass roots base. that's who are the delegates. they are representees of the grass roots of the republican party. these from the the folks who walked the precincts, who man the phone banks, who make sure the yard signs are out in their neighborhoods. it's a grassroots activist base of the party. donald trump can continue to insult them by confirming he's going to attend, but that's his decision. when he's rejected by those same delegates, and then he blows them off --
charles: is it right that these same delegates can be whatted bn be wooed by a state dinner. you are hand out financial goodies to get the delegates. >> that's bogus. the reason ted cruz has wouldn't support in colorado and wyoming is because of his stance on the issues. that's who attend the same republican convention, people who are motivated by issues, who are looking for a champion to go to washington and shake things up. and they are supporting senator cruz for that reason. donald trump can engage in some degree of nationalization after the fact. bust reality is senator cruz is resonating with the activist base of the republican party.
the. charles: rule 38 is the key here that says no delegate or alter that delegate shall be bound by any district to oppose the unit rule. a lot of people are interpreting that to say sill vote in the first round for the person who won my district. do you interpret it that way or think it's the right deal. >> the ron paul people figured this out in tweferl when these rules were initially set up to prevent the grass roots on his side from moving forward. if i could respond to something. it's not just the trump campaign talking about these types of tactics the ted cruz campaign is using. this is not the grass roots that are participating in some of these caucuses. the reason why you don't spend
your resources and time in a state that's rigs against you is you can take those resources and go somewhere else. these are not grassroots. in indiana they are charging $2,000 for delegates that are selected. i don't know any grass roots person who can afford that. >> the trump campaign can continue to insult the grassroots activists of the republican party. you look at the pictures of the thousands of republicans who gather in colorado. 65,000 people voted in that process. this is the activist base of the republican party. they care about issues and they are voting for senator cruz. charles: do you think rule 38 is the green light for these delegates at a national convention to drop donald trump and put their allegiance behind ted cruz on a second ballot?
>> the rules are the rules. even though donald trump doesn't like to read the rules and understand them, those are the rules that will be followed at the convention. in some states like my state of california, delegates are bound for the first two ballots. then beyond that it's up to the delegates to exercise their best judgment. we didn't create that system. it's been in place since the time of abraham lincoln. charles: katrina, over the weekend, i think it what you this week, someone from the campaign said you guys have the 1,237 going into the convention. are you confident all these conversations are a moot point? >> we are going to get there before the convention. if it's a part of rules where you leave delegates off the ballot, yes, there is a problem with the rules.
but you can't cut people off the ballot. trump delegates were not on that ballot in colorado. charles: speak of tomorrow, you don't want to miss fox business' primary coverage. it all starts 7:00 p.m. right on fox business. donald trump look like he's going to sweep the northeast, but will that be enough for a gop nomination? we have a trump and cruz supporter ready to battle it out next.
>> he's not interested in giving out goodies because that's not very democratic. we are talking about voting on someone to represent you, not who can buy off the most people, which is what's happening in the other campaigns. >> if he thick he deek feet isis but can't organize himself to appear at colorado party convention where he promised he would attend or wind up canceling his presence at other conventions that's unfortunate for him. charles: that was the trump and cruz spokespersons. senator brown, it was another weekend. i think politico said trump was crushed or something like that in terms of the headline. ted cruz scooping up more delegates and some places where
he lost miserably during the election. >> he's still 225 delegates ahead with new york coming in all of the northeast which should get him close. charles: do you have any problem with what happened over the weekend. >> i was listen to your two prior guests and they were both right. you want it to be open and fair. but we knew what the rules were. trump knew what the rules were and he didn't move forward to capitalize and go in and battle. so they are both right. i think afterred the fact in the next election you will see a lot of fixing. when is the last time we had this close of a race. now these rules and all the inside baseball stuff are coming to roost. so you are seeing it actually work. it shows there is clearly some problems. i would have have ited him to get in and battle. i know the convention process. i have been to many of them.
it's very territorial. it's ingrained in history. we have to figure out if that's how we want to go forward or not. charles: sauce an -- sausage may when you see it in person. are you guys risking alienating grassroots voter that will ruin the party for years to come? >> i understand states rights and transparency and the brilliance of organization and seeking a presidential nomination. we have a 50-state, set of rules that have to be unde understoody
everybody who wants to win the nomination. charles: and you think it's fair? >> it is fair. our democracy is fair. the fact of the matter is al gore had more votes than george bush. was it fair? yes, because we have an electoral college and you needed 270. so that's the game. >> i don't disagree with ken. ken, after this is over and trump secures the delegates are you going to direct you're ire and -- direct your ire and fire to hillary clinton? >> that's a nice question, senator. but i have been fighting -- >> it's a real question. >> i have been a part of conservative movement for over 40 years. i haven't seen you there. let me also say to you i have been fighting the clintons for a
long time. >> you are going to attack me personally. i'm asking a question about moving forward. charles: one at a time. the bottom line [all talking at once] >> i have been on your program before and i said i'm going to support the republican nominee, pure and simple. i don't think donald trump understands the platform. once he wins the nomination, not understanding the platform and not being a conservative. i think he is a much better alternative. charles: this rule 38 that allows these delegates to vote their conscience. is that okay with you -- is that fair or fair enough because of the rule. >> they are going to get new people going in and rewriting the rules.
i'm hopeful they change that rule to actually honor the states, honor the will of the voters of those states. the democrats it's even worse. in new hampshire bernie sanders crushed an got less delegates than hillary. charles: thanks a lot, guys, really appreciate it. send each other an email after the show. will bernie sanders be able to pull off an upset over hillary clinton. he had 28,000 in the crowd last night.
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the democrats as they battle in the empire state. bernie sanders is getting amazing crowds in and around new york. but the team, they are starting to tamp down expectations. jessica, i have got to tell you, he's overcome the polls in so many different places. will bernie pull it off tomorrow? >> no. i don't think there is enough momentum at his back. she is up 19 points in new york city it as many as outside of the city where he polled close to her. i went to washington square park myself to see bernie sanders speak. i didn't get free ice cream or free college. but i think hillary will hold new york and hold strong with a double digit win here.
it's tabasco. that's not real hot sauce. but she is trying to reach out to the african-american community and get those votes. bernie has a young coalition of voters. brooklyn has been buzzing. >> it's unclear if these are registered democrats. it's a closed primary. hoik has a massive includes am -- hillary clinton has a massive enthusiasm gap. >> if you looked eight -- looked at it, last year she was 70%. i think this speaks to her witness. he's the guy that guns up passion. he has young people responding to that, in the same way they responded to obama.
pick me because i'm competent and experienced. but that's a trust-me pitch and she has a trust problem so i'm not surprised she is taking advantage of that. he's made it clear which i appreciate bernie sanders and jane and materials made it clear they will support the candidate. the democrats know full well the real enemy is the gop. especially if it's a ted cruz or ted cruz candidates i, you will see a much more united front. charles: she needs blacks and hispanics to show up in these states. >> she does, but all politicians are panderers. on the radio show, that was a true statement that she talked
about for years. charles: note to anyone, pandering in new york. don't use a knife and fork when cutting pizza. 95 delegates up for grabs on the gop side. donald trump is saying it could get rough at the convention if things don't work out right. we are talk beang all-out civil war. maybe more than just verbal. we'll be right back. some older e when they actually did start saving. this gap between when we should start saving and when we actually do is one of the reasons why too many of us aren't prepared for retirement. just start as early as you can. it's going to pay off in the future. if we all start saving a little more today, we'll all be better prepared tomorrow. prudential. bring your challenges. and i quit smoking with i'm chantix. i decided to take chantix to shut everybody else up
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charles: we are less than an hour away from a donald trump rally in brooklyn. what's the vibe like inside there? introductions.are just getting this venue has a capacity of almost 20,000. some of the speakers suggested this would be the biggest donald trump indoor rally of the campaign which would make it the biggest indoor rally of any of the republican candidates. donald trump is looking for if not a sweep, an overwhelming lands slide. the latest poll, the merrick poll shows trump has crested 50% and has more votes than ted cruz and ted cruz. that 50% threshold is important
because it's a winner take most. the winner of the state who gets a majority of state would get a big chunk of the delegates. but you also have to get a majority in each of the state's congressional districts, otherwise they are awarded proportionally. donald trump and ted cruz have been working hard in several congressional districts. trump says the system is rigged, and the rnc is corrupt, the republican national committee, and he might consider getting rid of ryan is prebus if he is the nominee and bring in a chairman of his own. reince priebus dismissed that and said he will finish his term regardless of hot nominee is. the rnc made the argument that
all of trump's concern. if things come out in kasich's favor he will say the system work. kasich doesn't even plan to win any more states because he says he's going to go to the convention regardless and make the argument against cruz and trump saying he's the only one to beat hillary clinton in the fall. charles: donald trump continues to call for reforms with the process. this is ted cruz swept all 14 of wyoming's delegates. he won a bunch in georgia. the delegates turn into something even more sinister. adam goodman and ashley pratt. i'll go to you first. donald trump saying hey, you guys don't know what your plan is there. i think he's referring to the
passion of a lot of people who went out, campaigned for him and stood in line to meet and greet him. to take this from him could be very dangerous, ken. >> humpty dumpty says he who defines is the master. i'm not going to let donald trump define this as something corrupt. there is a rule book. it's being played out by the rules are. my prediction. trump will get closer to 75 delegates man 85 dell dwats and he will lose indiana from the standpoint of him having 1,237 in california. we'll have an open, contested convention. on the second ballot we free up 1,600 delegates. on the third ballot we free up 2,200. and then cruz and others will
prosecute their case. and trump has to win on the first ballot. if he doesn't, it's over. charles: senator brown, do you agree with that. if trump doesn't get on the first ballot the game is over for him? >> i said a long time ago that it would more than likely be decided in california by california. that also being said. i have run 19 races and it's never over until it's over. his goal is to get to 1,237 and that's what i am hoping he does. all the northeastern states coming up. if he wins those four, i think they will have momentum so he will not lose in indiana and the other states. people say he's won four, he's on a roll. he's at 1,000 and we'll keep marching along. charles: adam you wrote a piece
saying donald trump will not go quietly into the night. >> the piece you are referring to is where i conjectured if trump is short of 1,237, he will resort to what he does best. i think he will do that before the establishment gets to kick in and take this away. your question at the beginning of this segment. the system itself. both parties are under the microscope and under siege because for the first time in a long time the curtain has been pulled back. people are getting a hard look at what the rules are. i know the apologists for the system. the american people -- republican and democrat -- don't believe this idea of one person, one vote democracy is being honored by party rules. we are talking about delegates in south carolina. charles: in south carolina,
donald trump won 32.5% of the vote. maybe the 63 or whatever my math is, 67% who didn't vote for him saying this is a chance of evening up the score? >> trump has said this contest isn't going to a second ballot. so if he believes that he needs to start racking up delegates and play this game that he believes is rigged. he needs to go out there and use his best effort. that means paul manafort, rick riley if he wants to win on that first ballot. when we look at our delegate system, it's something that's been in place for a while. but is it if the fairest system we have out there? it's something that will face further scrutiny down the road. >> i don't know that we'll agree it will actually happen. after the vote is over. who knows if people will have that same passion.
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they are taxing satellite dishes and putting tolls on truck drivers. payment to civilians to leave cities. fees if you can't answer questions about the quran. their income $50 million a month down from $80 million a month. >> one of them pitches has been good islamic governance. what we are seeing is their economy, their income is taking a pace with their territorial losses and population losses. i have got to give a lot of credit to the peshmerga fighters. i have got pictures of a man posting pictures of his kids.
charles: there is news the obama administration is sending in apache helicopters and more aid for those kurdish fighters. is this the time where we should be going for the death blow? >> you can't do it by waging war by one teaspoonful and a tablespoon full. the cardinal advantage of being a super power is super power. on those numbers, i'm not sure standard and poors has gone through the isis books. the islamic state suffers reverses. revenues are down and we are getting money from certain saudis and gulf arabs. and the core problem here is obama reef fueled to kill isis when it -- refused to kill isis when it was a startup. now they have global franchises.
charles: there is a lot of controversy over the 9/11 report and whether president obama will continue to block the american public from getting to the truth. >> the saudis are evil. they are our enemies, they are more per mi d they are more pers than the iranians. it's a master-slaveip. they bought so much influence in the united states over generations that it's hard to get anybody to stand up to them. they are threatening we are going to sell $750 billion of your assets if you don't do what we say. i say let them sell them. it would be disastrous for the already ailing saudi economy. we need to break this dependency.
i have seen the saudis at work. they are not only our enemies, they are the enemies of mainstream islam. the saudi goal is to prevent muslims from integrating into the united states. and that includes the united states. they are evil. charles: happy birthday, tomorrow is your birthday. we are just moments away from a donald trump rally in new york. hundreds of protesters are there. there is a large police presence as well. we'll be right back. pradaxa helps stop blood cells from pooling in the heart... forming a clot... which can travel to the brain and cause a stroke. pradaxa was better than warfarin at reducing stroke risk in a study. in the rare event of an emergency, pradaxa has a specific reversal treatment to help you clot normally again. pradaxa is not for people who have had a heart valve replacement. don't stop taking pradaxa without talking to your doctor. stopping increases your risk of stroke or blood clots.
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helping out with security here in front of the fir niagara center. a few hundred protesters. we'll give you a quick lay of the land. the last few stragglers are going down to the end. they are strict inside. each attendee is screened by the secret service. they were told they could not bring food, banners, backpacks. you can see from the 200-300 protesters gathered across the street. there are strict procedures in place. the protesters being kept on the other side of those metal barricade. the trump supporters are being walked in on this side of the barricades. one of the big goals of the police department is to keep a separation between the protesters and supporters.
the last two days we have seen issue when the two side came together. we talked to these people about why they are there and why they are protesting donald trump. >> i can't see donald trump representing america. he's a womanizer. i'm not afraid of black people or mek cans or muslims. >> i want everyone to know not all buffaloians believe that. you can see a lot of people still coming in here now. it would be about 18,000 people. they said we could have thousands of protesters. at this point we have 300 or so
across the street. charles: we are one day away from the new york primary. they are positioned to do well in the empire state. adam, i want to ask you this. a report out a few moments ago in politico talking about a major shakeup in the trump campaign. donald trump it appears he's ready now to spend more money and let the experienced professionals take control of the campaign. >> it usually happens in presidential campaigns. you have more than one you might say lineup that take you through the entire campaign. sometimes a mid-term lineup and one to bring you home. i think it's very good news he hired rick wylie and paul manafort.
this is happening at a time whether you like donald trump or not, i think he's got his mojo back. he has his confidence back. he may be in the beginning stretch of a very good run. >> we haven't seen a lot of donald trump. not a lot of fighting or whatever. the kind of divisiveness that didn't help him out. >> that's true. i think he has taken a back step in his campaign. he says maybe i shouldn't retweet everything that comes to my twitter page. maybe i shouldn't say the first thing off the tip of my tongue. who knows. but he need this new york moment to solidify that he is the gop frontrunner. the past three weekend we have seen buy oklahomaing and colorado vote for cruz. -- wyoming and colorado vote
for cruz. charles: does he need 90% to 95% of delegates to call it a true victory? >> there is one thing want to emphasize and he alluded to earlier. the issue of violence. trump supporters or bernie supporters. the whole world is watching how america works its presidential process. let's rise above violence and do what many right for all side. charles: what are you looking for tomorrow and after tomorrow. >> tomorrow the key metric will be if trump gets more than 50% in new york. there have been a lot of memorable moments about this campaign. he defended new york values during that debate and how he defended new yorkers. i think he will have a great day tomorrow. if he gets over that 50% that will be big in terms of the delegates he takes. charles: 50% plus one making
that one registered republican in the bronx a very powerful person. right now it's all about politician and lou dobbs. [♪] lou: good evening, everybody, i'm lou dobbs. 11 hours from polls opening in new york and the pivotal primary for republicans and democrats. frontrunner donald trump born and bred in the borough of queens web's looking to win 50% of the statewide vote. if he does, he sweeps the 95 delegates at state. >> you look at the people running, they couldn't care less about new york. we do care about new york. and we care about new york values.