tv Bulls Bears FOX Business October 22, 2017 6:00am-6:30am EDT
i'm jamie colby. thanks so much for watching "strange inheritance." and remember -- you can't take it with you. [ whistle blows ] scott walker, harvey levin and much more. >> dagen: the dow soaring past 23 for the first time ever this week, and all the major markets closing at record highs this week, but treasury secretary steve mnuchin is warning if congress can't cut taxes for all americans, we can all kiss this rally goodbye. is he right or wrong? hi, everybody i'm dagen mcdowell , this is bulls & bears. the bulls & bears this week, gary b. smith, joan as max ferri s, john layfield, and chuck rocha. welcome to everybody. gary b., if congress doesn't pass tax cuts, could that tank this market? >> gary: absolutely dagen. i'm surprised to hear mnuchin
talk about the market almost like a threat but whether he meant it or not and whether he thinks that will get congress to pass tax cuts it's really immaterial. i don't think there's any resolution or legislation passed this year on tax cuts, so i look back and i'd say what is the market running on and it seems to me yes earnings are good and trump is doing a pretty good job cutting regulation but it seems to me honestly it's running on fumes. you know, people think dagen that the crash for example, in 87 was a one-day thing. it wasn't. it started back in august for crying outloud and that 22% drop we had on black monday was a part of an overall 35% trump. if we start going sideways and start tailing off and then we hear the news about the tax cuts , we could really have a pretty awful market. >> dagen: well john so far this
past week, we didn't see a sideways market we had a new record on friday for all three major market gauges but if we don't get tax cuts does that rock this market? >> john: i think it does because you look at what happened this week the market was up significantly on the tax cut news and by the way the white house dropped the tax reform verbiage and switched to tax cuts so i don't think we'll get tax reform and i think it's impossible. we could get tax cuts and repatriation money. gary b. is right about the fact this is the second longest bull market in history and at some point we'll have a pullback and some point we'll have a recession and some point we'll have a bare market . the difference this time and always scar it when you say that the difference this time is the competition. look bonds are extremely expensive. there's no yield anywhere else, the best place to put your money is in the u.s. equity market so because competition is so weak, i think this rally continues right now. i'm not sure how far but i think it continues. >> dagen: emily do we need these tax cuts out of congress because steve mnuchin the treasury secretary earlier this year said
it would get done by august. didn't happen, but didn't take the market down. >> emily: so that's what is key here in i think of course a tax reform fails there would be a correction. the significance of that correction would depend on how it fails because tax reform could fail in a way sort of like healthcare where it's not completely off the table. it could be of coursed up next year, it could be done on a later date or fill in a way that means the gop congress isn't capable of really passing any legislation at all and if it fails in that way you could see that correction be more significant because that caps out on the republican party's ability to make any economic progress in this country. >> dagen: chuck you're a small business owner and you know you need you know you want those tax cuts. >> chuck: you'd be right because john layfield will smart ly tell you i get taxed at an individual rate even though i own a small business. let's take a step back and under barack obama the stock market literally doubled so if you bought a puppy in the last few months and named it donald j., i'm not talking to you, you won't be believe but will it
double again and can it do that? i think what gary b. is exactly right. what is it running on? as a small businessman i paid 52 % taxes last year because i had the best yes, sir i ever had because i got to run a presidential race. what's that mean next year? if i got a little bit of relief as a small businessman, i would hire a few more people. >> dagen: chuck you just stole tax reform particularly for pass through entities that have a business income in this country is taxed at the individual tax rate so chuck just did a better job jonas of selling tax reform than any republican i've heard so far. >> we've brain washed him. look it could be running on higher after-tax corporate income if there's a corporate tax cut that would essentiallyly lower valuations in the market just by means of corporations paying less tax. what we don't know is how baked that in is. is the bill really elf pecking the corporate tax cut and then by losing it does it cause a crash? in my book crashes happen when
the market goes up too fast. there's always a reason and the 87 crash was the worst ever in a short period of time happened one of the leading causes was tax, they were talking in the ways and means committee about removing tax breaks a distortion from mergers an acquisitions and the whole market globally crashed because just talking about it which gets to the reform issue and we had a bad reform package you could get the market to crash because of action. for example, we're removing 401 (k) and ira contributions deductions could lead to less low pressure going into the market. we're moving overnight the mortgage deduction retroactively and all of a sudden home prices adjust and these are distortions that need to go away. it can't lead to a crash so how reform is done over what timeframe could definitely lead to a crash and if it's done wrong again i don't think a smaller across-the-board people spending money tax is going to really make a crash but these issues of distortions are big and caused the 87 crash. >> dagen: gary b., do you agree with that because there was news out this past week one way to raise revenue in this tax reform
would be to dramatically reduce how much people can put into 401 (k) plans before taxes. we're talking about less than $3000 while that limits it 18 grand right now, that alone could rattle the market so it would be tax reform that still takes the market down. >> gary: first of all, jonas comes with so many facts you say do i agree with it and he gave an in cyclo media of reasons. it's tough to pick out just one but anything dagen that affects the people's pocket books directly, even in the anticipation they're going to have more money and then have it taken away is going to dramatically affect the market but here is the flip side. john said he didn't want to sound naive. it's always different i agree with john 100% but here is the thing even back in 2008 i can remember being on this show and saying there's not a housing bubble.
there's no problem with housing. six people, the people in the big were the only ones that saw it coming and everyone else never saw it coming. you never see what's coming so whether it's tax reform, north korea landing a missile in japan that detonates, some other nut it thing that happens you never see it coming. i feel so many people are giddy about their game so far in the market it's inevitable there's a big sell off and tell you what i hope i'm wrong. >> dagen: i want to speak up though because i was on cash and end in 2007 talking about housing bubble so i just want to point that out. >> so seven people. >> i want to bring up the fact that my wife was one of those people so i have inside info on this entire trade. >> dagen: but john to this point is the market still betting on tax reform that if we don't get it, it does tank because i'll
point out that every major developed economy 45 of them are all growing and saying first time that's happened since the financial crisis in 10 years. >> when president trump got elected you saw two months of trump bounce and after that you saw corporate earnings taking off. right now you're starting to see a little bit from the corporate tax cut being enacted. you are not going to see tax reform and i think it's impossible. jonas saying can these guys screw it up? of course they can screw it up. they promised by august we would have it and promised on day one they would repeal and replace obamacare. these guys lied about every single other event and deadline they had. i don't know why anybody believes they're telling the truth so i do think that with this new budget they can get tax cuts done and my friend chuck is there and this creates 50% of the jobs will be able to hire more people and do more things. it's a true economic boost if you get a corporate tax cut fast >> dagen: chuck before we go to break i want you to say it to chuck and nancy give me my tax cuts. >> you're trying to literally
destroy my business but let me tell you this. there's a lot of people who didn't make any money overall this time when all of this money and all of this weather has been made by this huge increase no matter if it's democrats or republicans. if you're working an the only wealth that you have is your home and you may have a little bit of 401 (k) those are the exact people who need the help. they can't leave those people behind. >> dagen: those are the people that president trump has promised to help. thanks, guys and gal. cavuto on business about 20 minutes from now neil what have you got? >> neil: dagen despite ratings down the nfl is still not making players stand up. is that going to prove? and the president taking credit for the market's record run but if things go south will he have to own it as well? see you at the bottom of the hour. >> dagen: neil we can't wait but up here first the hillary clinton e-mail probe back in the spotlight newly uncovered documents show fbi director james comey drafted a letter exonerating her before interview
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news.com. >> we did not find clear evidence that secretary clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive highly classified information. we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. >> dagen: that was more than one year ago. now, there is new evidence former fbi director james comey began drafting a statement clear ing hillary clinton months before the investigation was actually over and before he actually questioned her. some investigators say there's nothing unusual about this but emily you say we need to look into us. >> emily: yes, there may be nothing unusual about it but we need to know the content of the draft that was being circulated around may. hillary clinton herself was not
actually interviewed until early july, yet we know from what the fbi has released in transcripts and in a document itself that james comey began circulating a draft of a statement that would clear the case that would conclude the case as early as april. that is highly highly worth looking into. he needs to come to congress to testify and explain the content of that draft and why it was being drafted before hillary clinton and other key witnesses were even interviewed over the course of the investigation. >> dagen: john, don't americans deserve to know the truth behind this and want congress to get to the bottom of it? >> john: i think americans deserve the truth but i don't think they want congress to get to the bottom of it because i don't think justice will be served. what should have been investigated was the collusion between secretary of state and clinton administration. i don't think anything possibly will be done all you do is waste taxpayer money, we have education to inner cities in america just in a shambles, wildfires in california,
disaster in puerto rico, there's so many bigger things than dealing with allege ed crooks in d.c. if you arrest all the crooks in d.c. we wouldn't have a congress let's get something done in our country that matters to the american people. >> dagen: gary b., why doesn't this matter getting to the bottom of what jim comey said and what was the real truth? >> gary: look it does matter. i agree with every single thing that emily said but i'm going to put myself in the shoes of the average american. their eyes are glazing over. honestly for everything that john said yes, she probably did illegal things. she probably is a crook, but we've been going over this. we've been going over the russian investigation. now, it's a clinton and the i rain january deals. enough already. we've hashed this out. you know what it's going to be. it's congressman and senator on each side showboating for c-span . it's absolutely ridiculous.
should we do it yes? but on the other hand it's the politically correct thing to say yes, but on the other hand i think as john sums it up, people are just tired of it. get out and do the job we elected you to do. >> dagen: jonas, we have congress spending millions of dollars on these russia investigations. we don't even know how much money because they essentially don't want to tell the american people but then, this gets overlooked although trey goudy of the house oversight committee wants comey back because the timeline doesn't add up with what he said a year ago this past summer, so why should in congress get on the stick with this? >> jonas: first of all the amount of money it would cost isn't why it shouldn't be done. the reason why is because this seems fishie. to me comey is a standup guy maybe because he's very tall but you got to look through these things through the eyes of the government. they will have a release that someone won't get in trouble. they need to get that cleared
probably takes weeks of bureaucracy. this guy is on vacation, it's government so it's an election year. let's say they will just determine that hillary was not guilty. they got to get that news out immediately and say it's a pre- clearance so it could be released when the bureaucracy says it's time to get off the case. normal investigation not an election year for somebody running for president they would drag that out for months and months and let the world know you're not a criminal so i could see how this would happen in the world of a bureaucracy. >> dagen: chuck should congress get to the bottom of this? i love the logic tall people are somehow automatically honest. >> i agree with that too. >> [laughter] >> chuck: i will say this that i think people are tired of all of this but one thing for sure if the federal government ever came up with a jobs program you may have just given me a new business idea because there's nothing but the prosecutors and investigators is something that we employ a lot of here in washington d.c. when you took all of that time and resource and put it towards trying to
make lives better like john is talking about with all of the natural disasters that would be huge but let me make a quick point that comey probably did something stupid and there's something to gary's point is it worth going back and doing all of that and one thing is for sure. i don't think anybody would say comey was a hillary fan at what he did right before the election would put out the information he did, not that it might have cost her the election but i was in that election and it did affect it whether it meant to or that. >> dagen: fair enough thanks guys and emily. cashing in just over an hour from now lauren what do you guys have coming up? >> lauren: dagen some things are sacred chief of staff general john kelly blasting a lawmaker ends the press for politicizing a president's private phone call with the widow of a fallen soldier. did the media go overboard or not plus cities offering big tax incentives to attract amazon's new headquarters but does one of the biggest companies on the planet really need tax breaks? cashing in see you at 11:30.
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and enjoy a device-free dinner. chuck do you take more selfies than they do? >> [laughter] >> chuck: you get awful personal when you talk about myself it game. let me tell you about my two grandfathers, i had papa and grandpa pete. when you think of old leather they taught me how to be a man at the dinner table and if you came i remember if you come here , think ain't the place for foolishness but the place to eat and talk and they taught me how to be a man and have great conversations. we need to get back to that. >> dagen: a men to that. emily? >> this is great coming from will would has the best dinner scenes with the amazing fast food buffet so i love that but it's absolutely true, right? i used to work with students a lot and i do worry they're having a hard time mastering the art of conversation having a decent conversation without thinking about what's on their device. >> dagen: praise the baby jesus for taco bell. gary b.?
>> gary: well look it's hard to disagree with them but here is my takeaway. stop preaching to us. if it's jimmy kimmel, it's will ferrell, it's government officials, yes you're all, it's from the heart and yes it's all emotional. please please stop telling us how to live our lives. if i want a tv dinner, with my tray in front of the tv, that's how i'm going to live my life. stop already with the manipulation. >> dagen: john? >> john: if i go to a fancy restaurant that gary b. likes i don't need my phone because they're fun people. phones are made for boring people. i eat dinners with a lot of boring people and if it wasn't for my phone i'd have to talk with them. >> dagen: jonas? >> this is a huge problem with the tech industry dominating our brains it will be 24/7 at some point, we're not getting smarter from the super computer in our hands getting dumber, it's not learning and it's infotainment and it has to stop it's a huge
problem. >> dagen: thank you guys i like will ferrell and thanks to emily and chuck for joining us. both of you all coming up it's well known stock that crashed on black monday, 30 years ago, but one of our guys says it's ready to make you a whole lot of green to make you a whole lot of green right ♪ can i kick it? ♪ yes you can ♪ can i kick it? ♪ yes you can ♪ can i kick it? ♪ yes you can ♪ well i'm gone your body was made for better things than rheumatiod arthritis. before you and your rheumatologist move to another treatment, ask if xeljanz xr is right for you. xeljanz xr is a once-daily pill for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well. it can reduce pain, swelling and further joint damage, even without methotrexate. xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections,
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though it goes up and down with the market. >> dagen: john your translation? >> john: i have no idea what he said. you weren't even born in 1987 what do you know about charles s chwab? >> dagen: very true. neil now. neil well ahead of tomorrow's big games will no decision from the nfl be the worst decision overall? i'm neil cavuto. nfl commissioner roger goodell wants players to stand for the national anthem but he won't penalize them if they do not. charles payne says that's not only the wrong play, it is going to be a very costly one. also here with us, kennedy, ben stein, adam had, charlie gaspari no is off this week and we don't know when he will be back. charles what do you think? >> ben: wait a minute we don't know when he's going to be back? neil well i know but i don't want to share with you. you're on a need to know basis,