tv Bulls Bears FOX Business February 26, 2019 5:00pm-6:00pm EST
to with nothing done. >> not gordon chang. melissa: we'll see what happens. that is it for usism we'l. >> we'll see what happens, thank you, bulls and bears, starts right now. david: congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez says she is the boss when it comes to the green new deal, she may not want to own it when she sees latest estimate on how much it will cost the taxpayer. here to weigh in on this and more, liz claman, and jonathan hoenig. we bring in doug egan, you have been crunching numbers for a while, green deal would cost $93 trillion, that is high-end. when all said and done. how do you arrive at that figure? >> we took the new green deal seriously, as a policy proposal,
14 pages, they contain specific projects from a netzero emissions important network to an electricity grid drive e driy renewable health care, and security and ga guaranteed jobs, you look at that, high end is 93 trillion over next 10 years, low end is 51. and this gives you a notion of the scale of the proposals involved in this green new deal. >> this is liz claman, i read this deal. you know, a lot is a moon shot, not realistic. however, one thing she neglected to put in here, by the way congressman markey, was also a part of this, is the cost of regulating it, i understand that about a trillion. with these numbers, is this a country that was based on moon shots? is that not where the term came
from? we throw something out there, you aim for the stars, maybe you snag the moon but the environment is an issue that even republicans who have been polled care about? >> yes, i think the right way to think about it there are three month shots on the environment, electricity grid, and transportation network and retrofitting every house. there are three things that not about that, they are economic policies, university healthcare, guarantee job, food security their is a mixture of moon shots, i at least as a slave to numbers like to know, hey, if this has great national benefit, let's figure out how big the benefits have to be to see the cost, easier thing to do. hard to calculate the benefits. i think politics who make these have an obligation to make the case for benefits, we're justing up what they cost.
>> you know what aoc will say about the cost, look at my excel spreadsheet, we need to jigger the numbers a little bit. that is the excuse with government control like this, you know, i felt the same argument with obamacare, republicans said we can't afford this they should be arguing, doug i love your response, morality. we get a lot out of fossil fuels, what will man's life be like if we get rid of fossil fuel as aoc and the green new deal propose. >> i think two things about, that first on the cost, so people understand, there is a lot of uncertainty part because they have not written down in great detail what they want to do, the more detail, the cost will be more precise. the truth is still to fully be
determined. but i am with you in following specific way if you read off 14 pagessure struck by breadt breaf policy goals, i am more struck by the outcome for american life. that is not in this plan, this is a different vision of life in america. >> economist magazine comes hardly a conservative magazine said that aoc's proposal proposn new deal is not something that is practical. energy -- former energy secretary from president obama said the same thing, it was impractical and not realizable to achieve, i agree. however there are some things in this with 12 cent a kilowatt
hour across united states, what part of this works? does le retrofitting homes and businesses, what part works? >> i would say first and i am not comfortable dismissing someone else's proposal as not serious, we take this seriously, this is what they think they would like to do. in that are some things probably make since. like energy efficiency in homes that is the biggest source of energy loss in u.s., moving grid toward a more green footprint. what is probably wrong is 10 year time frame, a lot of people say it can't be done. and way it is done. it is a top down regulatory heavy approach, i an economist,y could have a government economy in 10 years just give it right price incentives, let the
private sector do it. >> doug this is caroll, from my perspective does not seem like a serious pr proposal. the don't talk about china and emerging markets, there is no mention of nuclear energy. my issue, when you put numbers around it, it gives some level of credible diaz if that is something we should be negotiates with. do you concern it takes to pain of giving it more attention, instead of weighin staying go be drawing board. >> i don't know, it is a fair point, i never thought it would be harmful to know more about a specific proposal. i have dedicated my adult life to proposition of better informing policymakers, we pit numbers on this and i don't know if 93 or 51 makes it more or
less credible this is an enormous cost. and the benefits have to be even bigger to make it world while. david: the low figure is double the cost of our current government, it would double budget where money would come from is someone's guess. there is a huge variation. for example on guarantee jobs, you say could be from 6.8 trillion dollars to 44 trillion over 10 years, that a huge range why such a big range. >> at one end we assume you give the jobs to those who are unemployed. these are very pricey jobs, they say, should be a standard of living adequate for family, paid vacation, and family of, and retirement benefits, this is not just an average job. that is low end, or you can imagine not they get that job but these whom out of labor force come in to labor force they get jobs, and there are
some people working now who don't have a job that good, we have upgrade them. if we upgrade, and. it gets very big. >> did anyone notice -- >> what is interesting. >> go ahead. >> i was saying it is interesting i feel that one person who is taking this seriously is senate majority leader mitch mcconnell, he wants to hold the democrats account accountable and supporter of the green new deal to go on record. let's listen to what he said this afternoon. >> i have been reading with some amusement our friends on other side seem to be reluctance to vote on the green new deal. the latest i read was that people were contemplating voting present. only question i would ask, if this is a popular thing to do, so necessary why would one' to dodge the vote?
>> good for him. get people on the record. you know you need to be explicit. the goal is to hurt mankind. that is why environmental -- against nuclear energy, i think that leader on the right track. get people on the record that want to hurt mankind, the more fossil fuel we burn the better man's life has become that should be standard, worry about man's life, nature should take care offe itself. >> did you notice, and douglas as you being an economist, you know about dynamic scoring, this this report, i is said it will y forked i -- pay for itself throh saves of health cost, because 200,000 people a year die of
asthma related problems. they say i know how much calories are in a slice i pie in the sky, you just can't say that, that is reminisce en remie g.o.p. and tax plan, i am interesting to know how this is any different from other dynamic scoring that we see by economists? >> liz, you know you make a good point, i am a big advocate of dynamic storing, have you -- scoring, but you have to understand it does not deliver miracles. this is not going to pay for itself. there is language in there that suggests workers will have money and life will be great. this is not goto pay for itself a tax cuts don't pay for themselves, if you are serious about this vote for it i think that senate mcconnell has
right litmustivity, an test. >> by the way. the cbo will have to score it at some point, will they have a range as you do if individual parts of the green deal come up for vote. >> i don't think they will have to score it. senator talking about, a vote on senate resolution. so, they will not have an obligation to story it they could not -- score it, they could not. david: thank god you did. we made heroic assumptions to get where we got. david: we appreciate you coming in thank you, come back. >> take care. david: many on capitol hill are shrugging off federal government debt, some lawmakers' too declare it a national security
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david: a fiscal fiasco, republicans in house and senate introduce resolution to declare nation 22 trillion debt a national security threat, andy biggs is cosponsor, thank you for joining us, how are you proposing to bring down the date. >> recognize it is a real problem and change the process. we're not playing with our fiscal future runs to the
deadlines then messing with it, we need to do our regular order, 12 budget bills, are transparent about it, kept create the omnibus bills or mini bus bills couls.be forward and transparent is first step i think to getting to the bottom of this. >> congressman this is caroll. we know why the debt is an economic threat. but from a security threat, does that have to do with fact if we were to go to war that potentially we would not have the ability too have another nation finance it, how do you bring that gap. >> two aspects. what happens is as our debt continues to grow and inrift payments on that debt grow, we actually squeeze out the money that is available for defense military spending and our other security needs like, most people don't think of it this way but
transportation infrastructure is imperative. the third thing you look at, you look at who owns our debt. >> a significant portion is china. so, if they are holding our debt, and there comes a chance or an opportunity -- not an opportunity but a where if we have a conflict of some kind that is real, they have a tremendous advantage over us, we'll have trouble borrowing money to finish a war or mill -- finish a war or military activity. >> congressman -- thank you for joining our show. i want to applaud you for what you are doing, it we have a booming economy, with no war, no
crisis and we're running trillion dollar deficit again, if this passes and you rein in government spending you will get fired. reason, if you tracha trillion out of this economy -- take a trillion out of this economy. i think this right thing to do, but that politician that does, that economy will suffer, probably going to get fired. so, i want to ask you, what do you do to make that permanent long-term, whereas you put in in place, economy suffer, someone else gets elected how does this have teeth? >> the first thing to do is realize that i really -- if we could bring a planned budget for the -- balanced budget forward hard to think i would get fired, but if i did that would be great, i ul one happy. >> i don't want you to get fired, i'm just warning you, that may happen. >> we have to get back to a tradition, it has been 20 years since we've done a balanced budget, a couple thin could one
is regular order. we need our leadership team to get to regular order to people here understand it the go and do things like that. it is so easy in a constitutional republic are representatives who come in who are beholden to people, that is what happens, you know this, that is very difficult to set going forward, but for the fact we have to be beholden to the voter and voters have to say, if you are not going on balance the budget then we don't want toy be there, it should be people who don't want to balance the budget who get the job. >> stop spending thank you, congressman. you think a government stops spending the economy will falter, it is going on soar. 180,000 per taxpayer in terms of this national debt, this is a
crisis. not immigration, not trade deficit, but let me ask, how do you convince the president, in have been reports that president said that debt is not his problem. how do you get him on your shie. >> the president is a businessman, i know he understands that if we are totally imbalanceses, if he sees the ability to defend this country is at risk, which it is, i think we comes to understand, i think he really likes to balance things out, but bottom line he loves this country, he wants to protect this country, that is really what we're talking about is impossible to adequately defend this country, when the substantial portion of your debt is held by a potential adversary, perhaps greatest at-this-point in time, you have to realize that i think that is the way you have to approach it. >> this is liz claman, i think it is terrific, i applaud you.
but if you go 10 years, immediat--admiral michael mullie same thing, dan coats could director of intelligence, the same thing. interestingly hillary clinton, she was secretary of state said part of what makes this so calamitous is we don't control our future just as you put it, debt and people who own our debt and our capacity to act in our open interest is compromised. how do you tell americans it is clacalamitous from a national security stan point. how is that. put a word on it? >> it is we're in vice grips of someone else, that is really what we're talking about here. we have to keep making the case. so i am pleased to say i
introduced this last we're, we have far more people who joined on this year, and we'll see more and more people, if we can get the ball rolling, i believe you can actually change the public awareness and narrative but it takes time. this is a big country, and it may take a year or two of us talking about this nonstop, to elevate this. as we do i think that americans okay americans care. they are start people they get this. and they will rally around this, and i believe that. david: congressman, i think have you 5 panelists here ready to go out and do the hard work put some shoe leather to making it happen. for different the reasons we support what you do, thank you for coming. >> thank you. >> come back let us know. >> i will. david: fireworks over fed elizabeth warren making a new charge, is the fed helping banks at our expense.
david: real fireworks 2020 democrat presidential candidate, massachusetts senator, warren making a charge while grilling federal reserve chair powell to fed's approval of big bank mergers. >> i bet that suntrust and bbnt looks at that 100% merger success rate and saw what everyone else sees that is the fed works for big rich banks that' to get bigger and richer. and then everyone else pays the price for diminishes competition, worse service, higher prices, employee layoffs for risks we have too big to fail bank on our hand.
i think it's time we put down the rubber stamp and let the public and everyone el weigh in before we create yet another too big to faith bank. david: do you agree? is the fed working to make big banks richer and bigger at expense of everyone el. >> i jump in, we within through the finish crisis, we were sitting next to each other for so many years. that federal reserve is not the one in charge of making big banks even bigger, they do look at these mergers, talking suntrust to merge with bbnt, create 6th largest bank. 400 billion, warren said we all suffer because there is worse service, and job loss. >> what is she talking about? worse service? >> we've seen bank mergers that things get better, it was effect
of when she used his own numbers again him, 0% of mergers brought before federal reserve have been rejected. so, it makes you wonder, what is their metric, are they just rubber-stamping something. >> why would they be rejected, companies' to merge, i hear, if warren wants to worry about customer service, look at irs line, people can't get through for hours and hours and hours or post office, they are continuities -- entities that are controlled by government, banking thanks to mergers banking is better and better, her goal is to the to deregulate or free banking but put more regulation on from dodd-frank to sarbanes-oxley to depossive dept insurance, they are public enemy number one. not control the socialist like she is.
>> not only that, but her point was silly. she missed the process here, what happens is two banks will merge, they talk to the fed, if it is not going to happen, they say it's not -- not going to happen, don't file the paperwork, then they file paperwork, they say, it is not looking like it is going to happen you might want to withdraw, they take it out of the process, it is 100% on the back-end but there are controls on the way, and what does she' public to weigh in on, these are being discussed not like we can say let's look at assets under management. >> her point is silly. >> that big banks in part cause financial crisis and unwound the system with 87 firs 87% approvey rating of merger is makes you wonder if there is enough
scrutiny, i could tha i think tr point, i think she is a little misguided in this the fed fed il reserve fed i -- is not the one who says, you are going to get richer. >> she is also misguided alone on the side size, the size alonh banks is not a problem. you don't allow banks to become casinos, and. -- that cures this problem, then size does not matter, also, when you have a economy of scale, steadies shoarch tha shown sizes customer service. i think she is just tilts again windmills here, i don't think this makes any economic sense. david: if you same her notion that more concentration is bad
in the banking industry, and banks shouldn' shouldn't be tha, look at what happened with regulation after financial crisis, we have more concentration in banks now, even before donald trump became president, than before the financial crisis. all that regulation, all of this different things that were written to prevent a financial cries dicrisis did not work, i r what she wants to do to change things. >> of course it did not work dodd and frank, they were in charge before, they did not see it coming then they will write something to fix, what they wrote, it hurts banks, it hurts lending ability and did nothing to mitigate the next financial crisis. david: new york experiencing a huge exodus of wealthy people, folks leave are in lower tax states, why are state democrats in new york floating another tax? wait until you hear the name?
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david: we had a lot of taxes, proposal, now new york wants to pass something its proponent call a oligarch tax, a tax on second homes worth over 5 million dollars. they estimate would bridge in b0 million a year, but could it backfire driving more wealtho new yorkers out of new york city. >> absolutely. that 650 million is bs and a shade play, they want to stop oligarch and help with wealth redistribution, since the beginning of mankind, salon
tried this in 600 bc, it did not work then. policy has never helped we'll -- wealth and inequality. the left wants to make this to wealth redistribution, it will hurt the city if this passes. >> do you remember that movie richard prior on money and had to give it away. >> millions. >> yes, they drove out amazon, they want to drove out the wealthy people, no one in government understands economics are finance, this is ridiculous, they need to cut spendings, people with second homes they they property taxes, they employee people in and around their homes, they pay in to the local economy. you want them in your city. >> i could not agree more, let me tell you this is a disaster,
and number i agree, john is just pie in the sky ridiculous. and united kingdom tried this, the mansion tax. >> oh, yeah. >> remember that. >> i do. >> revenue fell 11%. david: there you go. >> that number is crazy, if you want people to stop doing something attacks it, if you -- tax it, if you want them to stop buying real estate, they will stop if you raid the taxes, it would be a disaster for new york. >> this is straight up wealth comconfiscating. oligarchs are people who earn their money through unscrupulous means, these are not oligarchs,
these people earned their money, they created it. we could swim to an island where everyone is equally poor. >> >> to jonathan's point in 10 years new york lost 1.3 billion folks -- million folks, they are probably not all wylie some, may have gone to florida because of weather, no doubt they left because of the taxes, ven governor of new york is realizing we need wealthy people here. >> absolutely, if you look at just the effect of cap on salt deduction that in and of itself is driving people out of state like new york, new jersey, connecticut and illinois. because you can't write-off your taxes, now you put a tax on top of it, we have numbers this would be a unmitigated disast near caroll is from illinois, 17
people and liz california 929,000 people left california over last 10 years, they are dropping like flies. america's top drugmakers grilled on capitol hill over skyrocketing drug prices, will it make any difference. >> if tax payer pays that money, which over the county is $200 a money woo we a 2600 a month, it almost as if the taxpayer has stupid written all over their face. two songs in one. like a mash-up. exactly. yeah. what's a mash-up? i'm going on the bus. our grandparents checked zero times a day. times change. eyes haven't. that's why there's ocuvite. screen light... sunlight... longer hours...
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>> never use coupons when there is a generic. >> what do you do to empower the patients to understand that the generic are out there. >> i feel like i need a phd to understand how this works. >> over-the-counter is 200 bucks a month we pay 2600 a month could almost as if taxpayer has stupid written on their face. >> a 7 e simpson el question -- simple question, did you use any part of tax break you got to lower the cost of your drugs. >> in a round about way, we did.
david: getting grilled over soaring drug prices, to hillary vaughn has been covering this all day. >> interesting, drugmaker pointing finger at congress, saying it is up to them to fix high drug prices, si senate fine committee slapped all drug representative with a 10 day. they took turns putting ceos in hot seat. >> i'm going to have town meetings at home, people will say, ron this is ridiculous. we are getting gouged when people around the world are getting a better deal. you are willing to sit by and hose the american consumer give the break to hom people oversea. >> i think you char charge moree
because you can, and americans are subdeciding you the people in michigan, and the country deserve better, they need to be able to afford medicine and not have to go to another country to get it. >> so far, they blamed rebates for price hikes, they want government to get rid of them, the middle man that negotiations supplies, are scooping up savings that should be passed to the patient, pfizer ceo. saying that he is already warned his visitors, that change is coming. >> i spoke with our investors, not to the senate, i made it clear, that pricing will not be a growth driver for this company, now or in the years to come. >> companies wants senate judiciary come to also investigate how drug companies
use patents to their advantage. david: thank you very much. >> is government intervention necessary to bring down drug prices. >> that is reason that drug prices are so high. we think back to the 1950s, with you know house calls, and that type of healthcare system, that was before medicare, before government got involved with helping people pay for health care, right up to george bush senior prescription drug benefit in 2003, government pays for over half of healthcare that was before obamacare, it is more now. talk about getting government out was business of subsidizing and regulating. >> this is a complicated issue. sometimes it takes up to 17 years to develop a single drug. pharmaceutical companies are ones who layout the money they
take the risk, sometimes fda says no, it is not gre to pass, they take ont on, i get it, we're for free and fair markets, however when it life and death drugs, you see a spike of 10,000% over 9 to 10 years. that is gouging, and so, i can understand president trump's total frustration, he has said, you are getting away with murder. president trump is going after them, but guess what they did? at january 1st, they hiked their prices. >> right. >> they are not listening. >> john la layfield, my questio, is there a way to get us here in u.s. to stop subsidizing the rest of the world in terms of the drug prices, but still preserve the spirit of u innovation to en sen -- incentie
companies. >> right, you get rid of the bafoons that charge of dog and pony show in congress, they are going after the end user, have you drugmaker, whole maker, pharmaceutical benefit manager, and pharmacy, and insurer, they are all takes pieces and taking huge profit, they all have lobbyists who bought off congress. congress is bought and paid for, until you do something with congress, this dog and pony show about throwing rocks at these guys could say you better fix this, how about congress being brought and paid for. david: johns and joh johnson & r point -- your point said 77% is money paid to middle man. they help guide people, they take a huge church, they are going to be grilled in coming week, but price control, this is
to john month a points, -- jonathan's point, price cold col always lead to shortage. we'll see a shortage if we try price control. >> go ahead. >> go. >> i think -- >> i think. >> imagine what would happen if -- i thought you said go ahead, you u interrupted by interrupti. >> we have imagine what would happen if government said everyone has to have an iphone, the more government is involved in healthcare, the more unavailable and ebb expensive. david: just that medicare, that cost $100 billion a year. it will take a big bull to bush back that government intervention in that part of the
markemarketplace. >> moving to bernie sanders, he says he has a 7 e simpson el -- simple plan to pay for his policies, he is going to the heart of capitalist america to pull that cash out. >> am i going to demand that wealthy and large corporation start paying their fair share of taxes, damn right i will!
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amazon and others to pay the bill. what do you think? >> it's idiotic. william jennings bryant said you can't make a million dollars a year legally. bernie sanders is the modern william jennings bryant. he's like a 7th grader running for council promising prepitsas. >> does bernie sanders believe this or not believe this. jeff bay dose doesn't own amazon, he's a shareholder it's a publicly traded company. amazon went years without making a profit. this is the tax code. unless he's rewriting the tax
code, this is the basic tax code and it makes me angry he continued to conflate the issues. >> the hold point is, you didn't build that. they say jeff bezos, it's public wealth. we should be thankful jeff bay zoals is a multi-billionaire. he benefited all of us in the meantime. with bernie sanders no property rieghts are possible. >> if amazon didn't pay tax, get a flat tax in there. everybody pays something. david: flat tax would get rid of all deductions. you could bring down the top rate from 15% but everybody would have to pay their fair share. is everybody for that? >> i'm for that.
carol is the loner. we have to leave it at that. that does it for bulls and bears. see you tomorrow. >> today the house is voting on a resolution that gets to the very nature of our democracy. >> one thing that's not in debate in our conference, we think there is a crisis at the border. >> vote on the resolution to terminate the president's national emergency declaration to be an easy vote for every member of congress, democrat or republican. >> there are different points of view about how to address that. all of that will be dealt with publicly on the floor. liz: capitol hill fireworks. house speaker nancy pelosi a