tv Sunday Morning Futures With Maria Bartiromo FOX Business May 5, 2019 10:00pm-11:00pm EDT
share with us? we'd love to hear it! send me an e-mail, or go to our website, strangeinheritance.com. pete: go to church, have a great sunday! maria: good sunday morning everyone thanks so much for joining us i'm maria bartiromo joining us straight ahead right here right now former trump campaign aid george papadopoulos reacting exclusively this morning to bombshell revelations that the fbi sent an undercover agent to interrogate him in 201f several agents that tried to question him. he tells us about the efforts to spy on him and new details on the suspected russian agent who sent him information about hillary clinton e-mails. the ranking republican on the house intelligence committee devon nunes with us this morning , and also digging into this as he has been demanding answers from our intelligence
agencies about this former agent , how the fbi knew to ask george papadopoulos about those clinton e-mails and president trump said this is bigger than water gate as we have been saying for the last two years, devon nunes joins us exclusively this morning plus a high stakes show down on capitol hill this past week after attorney general william barr refuses to testify before the house judiciary committee and the judiciary committee member jim jordan is here exclusively to explain why he encouraged the ag to ignore democratic subpoenas plus former attorney general michael mukasey on the democrat's threat to hold barr in context i've got information coming up about that this upcoming week how he sees things playing out all that right now on sunday morning futures as we look ahead. we begin this morning with a look back at the russia probe. we are taking a closer look this morning at the probable cause and whether there in fact was
probable cause to start a criminal investigation into donald trump in 2016 and 2017. we know that the special counsel found no collusion, no obstruction. we also know that the obama justice department and fbi spied on the trump campaign. these are facts, but was there a legal predicate, a probable cause, to justify spying? one political campaign spying on another political campaign. this is when attorney general william barr says he is investigating right now. now so far the fbi has claimed that it launched an investigation into.in the summer of 2016 and spied on members of his campaign because of this man , george papadopoulos and a conversation that he had with an australian diplomat we're taking that directly to the source joining me right now is george papadopoulos former trump campaign aid, author of the book "deep state target." george it is good to have you on the program thanks very much for being here. >> thanks so much for having me maria.
maria: i want you to take us back to how this all began because when you were and were talking about what you went through it was actually stunning to me in terms of the level of people that reached out to you. first before we go through this timeline that is really stunning and i want our viewers to focus on this i want to ask you, have you ever been to russia? >> i've never been to russia, no. maria: do you have any colleague s associates that work in russia, or for the russian government? >> absolutely not. in fact, i was working at a conservative think tank for five years leading up to joining both the carson and trump campaign and i was in the energy business so as an american doing those two thins you're not working with the russians at all or promoting their interest. maria: so let's take it back to the end of 2015, and you were working with the ben carson campaign. you've got this timeline here. you are working for ben carson, you wanted ben carson to win but you decide you want to give
corey lewandowski a call whose running the trump campaign and you say you're interested in joining? >> that's right. actually, i had reached out to corey lewandowski even before carson, i think around june of july of 2015. i just thought that donald trump was going to end up being the president. maria: and he told you -- >> and choosing marco rubio as his vp. maria: he told you they weren't hiring yet they would get back to you? >> that's right and we stayed in touch. i ended up joining the ben car son campaign after that. pete: so you're in touch with the trump campaign and then ben carson drops out in january 201t without working, you don't have a job, and somebody reaches out to you on linkedin. tell me about that? >> yeah absolutely so i was contacted by this company called the london sensor for international law practice living in london at the time i was in the energy business in europe, and they contacted me out of the blue, we'd like for you to come work for us as a director here and i didn't think too much of it and i went over there and this
company ended up being some sort of spark that ended up probably changing my life and the last two years of this country because they are the ones that introduced me to this mysterous professor in rome. maria: don't get ahead of "our bodies, ourselves" so you're working for this, we learned later the center has actually worked with the fbi in the past, right? >> absolutely, so all of the officials that i was working with at this company were either connected to western governments , western intelligence organizations, or some of the top partners of the top law firms in the world were affiliated with this company. there were absolutely no russian s whatsoever at this company. maria: and they reached out to you on linkedin. that raises a red flag right there, because i'm wondering why a company working with intel agencies, regularly, including the fbi, in the past, reach out to you on linkedin. why you? why did they reach out to you working with ben carson? i'm just wondering if in fact
more people were spied on, like his campaign but we'll get to that in a minute. they reach out to you, you start working, do you expect a job? >> i do accept the job. i get there and within 48 hours i'm the director already which didn't make sense to me. it seemed like it was a fabricated-type of position there, just to get me in the room, and to meet various people and for them to introduce me to various officials around europe and even the united states, so it seemed like it was some sort of front company and front job. maria: fast forward to march when you decide you are in fact going to join the trump campaign you go back to your colleagues at the center, and you say i'm leaving, i'm quitting, i want to go work for trump and then what happens? >> yeah, absolutely so i tell them i'm leaving and they're all furious essentially telling me are you crazy you have such high level connections here in europe and d.c. why would you go and work there? you just finished working on car
son's campaign. maria: okay oklahoma but you just thought you're going to do it and they say what? >> yeah, and they're just furious and they say well if you end up leaving us before you go we need you to go to rome with us because we have people there who are going to help you on the campaign and at the time i didn't think anything of it and i went to rome with them to this university. maria: okay so you go to this university in rome and you meet some interesting individuals, let's talk about that. one of those individuals is this gentleman. tell me about the people that you met in rome when you're still working for the london center of international law practice, which of course reached out to you on linkedin, to get you this job, and you meet and they convince you before you go to work for trump you've got to go to rome. >> absolutely and as soon as i get there i'm basically greeted by the former italian foreign minister, very high level italian officials who were affiliated with this university. i suspect they were likely fbi
and cia people there too. maria: and you meet them and start having meetings, tell me who is him? >> i'm introduced to mipsid by the former italian foreign minister and basically is the overseas professor that robert mueller falsely characterized to the world as some sort of russian cutout trying to conspire with me or collude with me and provide information that the russians had. maria: but he drops a bomb on you in one of the meetings? >> yeah, so after i meet him in mid-march, so before my name is even public in the washington post these people are introduc ing me to him so clearly there were some sort of eyes on me before my name was public so we have bizarre conversations moving forward about a potential meeting between trump and putin and he could never introduce me to anyone of substance in the russian government or anyone of substance in general and then late april, he lets me know that
george, did you know that the russians have hillary clinton's e-mails and that's where i was very suspicious of this person, and actually, facts and events preceding that moment and after were very bizarre. maria: so he tells you russia has e-mails of hillary clinton's and this is the bomb that you feel was the whole reason that they wanted you to go to rome to meet him because they wanted him to tell you about these e-mails that russia had of hillary clinton is that right? >> that's absolutely correct. i think this person had some ortando of plans. he's been outed recently, he's being protected actually by italian intelligence right now and he's gone missing for two years. maria: they wanted you to go back and tell trump act russia having hillary clinton e-mails did you do that? >> absolutely not. that wasn't my job. you hear a lot of gossip and strange things when you're in these circles and the last thing
i was going to do was talk to the campaign about something i thought was illegal. maria: now what happens next is really interesting to me because over the course of the next four weeks, first you get the bomb thrown in your lap that he tells you russia has hillary clinton's e-mails. you don't do anything with that information, but you think he's hoping you will, but in the next week, in the next month, you get outreach from lots of different intel people. is that right? you are contacted by u.s. intel officials, british intel officials, australian intel officials, what was that all about? >> oh, yeah, that's a great point. so actually april 15, the australian government reached out to me for the first time. april 26, joseph mipsid tells me this information may second i have the british government reaching out to me who was the number two at the british ministry of foreign affairs where he wants to have a conversation with me and get to know me a little bit.
may 4 i'm contacted by two officials of the dia at the u.s. embassy in london, and then , i meet on may 10 this australian diplomat, alexander downer who i testified under oath at congress and told the fbi and robert mueller i felt he was spying on me and recording my conversations. maria: so this is all what you believe is spying recording of conversations early 2016, way before think was any fisa warrant to actually get a warrant to spy on anybody, and then it was downer, the australian intel guy, who really , they got you with because alexander downer had a conversation with you, and you were asked by the fbi when did you first meet downer. you tell them what? >> oh, so the fbi basically the fbi interview was i brought up joseph mipsid, and then this whole idea of who told me this information about e-mails and then i got caught in a perjury
trap and actually that was my charge. i got charged with i guess lying about when i met this person, so this is what this whole case was really about a complete setup, but the information that i have now and after i testified to congress, i'm pretty sure there are a lot of recordings and transcripts of between myself and a lot of these assets and i'm very hopeful that these are going to get public very soon and the from easy is going to start declassifying this material. maria: so you told the fbi you believe you met him in march when in fact you met him in april and that was the perjury so you went to jail for what, how many nights? >> i went to jail for 11 nights because of this, after i had money thrown my way, wire taps, surveillance by foreign countries and then i finally get caught in some perjury trap and go to jail for 11 nights. maria: and you feel that this was entrapment? >> absolutely. i feel it was entrapment and i'm very happy to see congressman devon nunes and the letter that
he sent to sent pomona because if this person was trapping not spying on me and then a coordinated effort between these other various agencies to extract this fake information and spy on me with another honey pot in london this thing has spying entrapment and illegal behavior. maria: it's pretty extraordinary to me it was so global that all of these intel people are reaching out to you, and beginning with linkedin, reaching out to you, to go work for this london center for international law practice. real quick why do you want the president to declassify these documents what are we going to learn, very quickly? >> what we're going to learn is the involvement of the uk and australia interfering in the 2016 election and also get to the bottom of who joseph mipsid was, who he was working for and we're going to understand who was running all of these spies at me and likely other people on the campaign
including michael flynn who actually encountered in 2,015 and i encountered him in 2016 so very important for the president to declassify this material. maria: we will leave it there and this is why we wanted to talk to you because this is why the fbi says it started an investigation. you were the predicate, george papadopoulos is supposed to be the predicate because of that conversation you had. george thank you very much. we are going to continue to follow the ball here we've got exclusive reaction to all of this with ranking member of the house intel committee devon nunes next live, his efforts to get answers about joseph mipsid and his ties to intel foreign agency just how far reaching were these efforts to spy on the trump campaign and then judiciary member jim jordan is up ahead back in -we bought a house in a neighborhood with a lot of other young couples. then we noticed something...strange. oh, could you, uh, make me a burger? -poof -- you're a burger. [ laughter ] -everyone acts like their parents. -you have a tattoo. -yes. -fun. do you not work?
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joseph mifsud, who fed george papadopoulos information about russians having hillary clinton 's e-mails. that claim george papadopoulos repeated was the predicate apparently for the fbi launching a counter intelligence probe into donald trump's campaign and mifsud is cited throughout the mueller report and has long been suspected of having deep ties to russian intelligence according to robert mueller. last friday the ranking member of the house intel committee devon nunes isn't this letter to the heads of the fbi, cia and the state department demanding documents on mifsud and his links to moscow. he is raising questions about that. common nunes joins me right now in an exclusive interview from the world ag expo and it is good to see you congressman thanks very much for being here. >> thank you maria great to be with you again. maria: the reason that we wanted to look at the opportunity for a predicate, was there probable cause? is because this is really getting to the point of what william barr is looking at what
you have been looking at what lindsey graham is looking at. why did the fbi open an investigation into the trump campaign, and spy on some of its members so before we get to your breaking news with this letter what was your reaction to george papadopoulos? >> well, i've seen him interviewed several types and every time he speaks we get more and more information and i think he is exactly right. one of the things i'm asking for is all of the underlying information, so if the fbi does in fact have transcripts of george papadopoulos talking to anyone, whether it's mifsud or downer or whoever, i think congress and the american people have the right to know this because in fact, we paid for it and we had to deal with this for two and a half years, we had to suffer through this, and one of my frustrations on this, maria is is that said when the mueller report came out that i call the mueller dossier named after the steele dossier that the democrat s paid more, i said that we were going to comb through
this with a fine toothcomb. one of the things that we're finding is that they used numerous, dozens of news stories , and now remember these are the same guys that were leak ing classified information so you had fbi leakers that would leak to the news, they do a fake news story, and then that news story would then get now we see what was picked up in many cases and used by the mueller dossier team. maria: right. >> we paid $30 million for this maria: yes. >> so how is this related to -- well the reason it's related to mifsud -- maria: yes, go ahead. >> the reason it's related to mifsud and mifsud really originates this investigation because he's the first one that we know of that goes to someone within the trump campaign and says hey, i've got i think i know where the clinton e-mails are, so this is important, because in the mueller dossier, they use a fake news story to
describe mifsud -- cid. maria: hold on right there because i want to go deeper into your letter but i want to just say mifsud is the guy who told george papadopoulos russia has hillary clinton's e-mails and mifsud is the guy that the london center wanted george papadopoulos to meet so it's this london center of law that actually hold him you have to meet mifsud and mifsud then drops this bomb on him and says russia has hillary clinton's e-mails. do you find it odd that all of these international intel guys are reaching out to george papadopoulos? he's working for ben carson, then he's working for trump, so how come somebody from britain, australia, italy, they're all reaching out to him and by the way, how come this london center of international law reached out to george papadopoulos on linked in to go work thereafter ben carson withdrew? >> and i think a better question is that is he claims he
was quitting this london center so how many companies or agencies that you know of when you say hey i'm quitting or what about a three, four, five day vacation in rome we'll fly you there put you up for free. maria: because we want you to meet this guy mifsud -- cid. hold on devon nunes we want to continue this conversation and go deep into your letter stay with us we're looking
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they used a hot lot of these news stories that sometimes were generated by leaks from the fbi now i don't think the american people expect 20 doj lawyers and 40 fbi agents to write a 450 page report that's built off of news stories that in many cases they generated. i particularly have a problem with this with one of the stories is because they pick a news story and then they cherry pick from it so they use it partly to describe where mifsud worked, but then they fail to say in that same story, that they have given support to by using it in the mueller dossier, they cherry pick it and they don't use that mifsud was described as a western intelligence asset. now, maria anybody whose out there all they have to do is get on the world wide web and if you type in joseph mifsud, link campus which is where he worked you will find, you don't even
have to be able to read okay? you'll find pictures of him with many foreign dignitaries, foreign leaders. you'll see that the link campus had the fbi on the link campus doing training nearly all the time nearly every year, so how is it that we spend 30-plus million dollars on this, as taxpayers, and they can't even tell us who joseph mifsud is so that's we're getting to the bottom of this so we believe he has ties to the state department , the state department actually our state department had him in the united states capitol in 2017, joseph mifsud and remember, why is mifsud so important, because mueller, the mueller dossier team, they essentially make this guy out to be a russian asset under the control of putin said that he has ties to these russians. sound familiar? so this is the origination of this investigation and it seems like mifsud has an awful lot of
ties to u.s. , british, and italian intelligence services. maria: do you believe that the fbi had all of these sources out to entrap people from the trump campaign, so that they could claim that there was a conspiracy that donald trump was colluding with the russians? but in fact they put all of these sources all across the world to get to members of the trump campaign, like they reached out to george papadopoulos? >> well remember what i said on your show last year. maria: yep. >> i think i actually said it first, on your show as i recall. i said i'm not worried about whether or not they were spying on the trump campaign, that is fact. what i want to know is how many spies with an s were involved in this, i mean, this is why we have to get to the bottom of all of this information needs to
come out. maria: let me ask you this. go ahead fin in your thought, congressman. >> well, on mifsud. so in the letter, we also point out there's a lot of talk about how george papadopoulos whose just on earlier, he caused the fbi and the mueller team problems because he didn't tell them about the relationship with mifsud and how mifsud had offer ed e-mails. now, this is in 2017. this is in the mueller dossier so this is all about in 2017, how george papadopoulos harms their investigation. maria: yeah. >> right? well, how is it then that the fbi or supposedly the fbi or other assets know to continually ask george papadopoulos about e-mails about clinton e-mails in 2016? maria: right nobody knew it. so how did the fbi know if
mifsud wasn't an asset of the fbi? let me ask you this. this all of spying going on, early in 16, watching george papadopoulos, knowing that he was reaching out to lieu en corey lewandowski, there wasn't a warrant. the fisa warrant to spy on an american citizen like they did with carter page didn't happen until october later that year so was this illicit spying? >> well, it's beyond me. i never knew you could use counterintelligence capabilities , these are the capabilities in our government we could target terrorists. i never knew that you could actually go out and use those capabilities to spy on americans , and we don't know all of this yet for sure but we have strong suspicions that that is exactly what was happening and you really only have to look at the text messages from strzok
and page who were the fbi agents who were the lead that ultimately served on the mueller dossier team. they were texting about this stuff. maria: they wanted an insurance policy. >> that's right. maria: congressman good to see you this morning thanks very much. >> thanks maria. maria: we continue to feel back the onion on this blowout story which of course we've been cover ing now for two years and you've heard the truth right here. we'll take a break when we come back the battle between congress and the justice department heats up, after william barr defies house democrats, judiciary committee member jim jordan and why the attorney general is right to push back plus his reaction to claims of child trafficking on the southern border, we were at the border last week, migrants are using children to claim asylum, how the white house is cracking down on that abuse that and a lot more as we look ahead on "sunday morning futures", on "sunday morning futures", back in a minute. hey, who are you? oh, hey jeff, i'm a car thief... what?! i'm here to steal your car because, well, that's my job.
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maria: welcome back attorney general william barr taking heat from democrats on capitol hill this past week, after refusing to testify before the house judiciary committee last thursday. over the proposed questioning format. committee chairman jerry nadler now threatening t hold barr in indiana contempt of congress if he does not produce the full un redacted mueller report, joining me right now is jim jordan, congressman always a pleasure to see you.
before we get into what took place last week your reaction to what we just heard from george papadopoulos and nunes. >> well i think the fundamental question is was joseph mifsud working for western intelligence and if he was that changes it all. bill barr is indicating he's going to get to the bottom of this and it is important that we do find out how this all started i always go back to this maria january 3, 2017 then the highest ranking official in the united states congress senator chuck schumer said this about president-elect trump. he said you mess with the intelligence community they have six ways from sunday at getting back at you and the question is did that really play out? was the intelligence community targeting the trump campaign, targeting the then president-elect trump and the trump adminitration and bill barr wants to find out and i applaud him for doing so. maria: that is key because if we learn officially that mifsud was actually working for the fbi then we've got the evidence it was all entrapment and all a plan. >> yeah, but it's not just mifsud it's like what we learned
from the new york times, it's this lady whose trying to set george papadopoulos up. we already know about the dossier that was paid for by the clinton campaign, taken to the secret court to get the warrant to spy on carter page associate with the trump campaign. we already know about all of that so spying as bill barr said under oath spying definitely occurred the question is was there a proper predicate and it looks like there wasn't and i'd also point your viewers to look at the letter sent to the attorney general last week, where he talks about this same fundamental issue and in this great country, un-elected people in the bureaucracy in the executive branch answer to the elected guy. they answer to the president, not the other way around. and that is critical. when you take chuck schumer's statement and the letter where he points out that point this is scary and this is why it's so important that bill barr and michael horowitz get to the bottom of this and report to the american people. maria: that's right and i from the beginning have been saying this is not about trump for me this is not about the president
this is about america and fairness and i think it's so extraordinary that you have all of these international intel agents, britain, australia, italy all reaching out to george papadopoulos and what about them reaching out the london center, of law, reaching out to him on linkedin to get him a job so they could watch him after he left the carson campaign. >> but here is, how much did the united states taxpayers pay christopher steele? how much did the united states taxpayers pay this lady who was trying to setup george papadopoulos? how much were we paying halper. all these are important questions when we do get bill barr in front of our committee i'll ask him or i hope his investigation will uncover and give us that information. maria: so my sources are telling me this morning that jerry nadler is going to mash mark up a resolution this wednesday to hold bill barr in contempt is that correct? >> probably so but who knows these guys are bound and determined to go after the attorney general after president
trump and not going to focus on what we need to do to help the country so i think they're nervous about bill barr because remember what he said three weeks ago in front of the senate finance committee he made four important points first of all spying did in fact take place. second he said there is a basis for his concern that the spying wasn't properly predicated. third, he said there was a failure of leadership of the fbi we know that for sure, comey, mccabe, we know there was a failure of leadership there and then fourth he used two terms that i've never really heard before and my guess is most americans haven't he used the term unauthorized surveillance and political surveillance. so the democrats are scared and frankly i think what we're talking about obstruction of justice the real obstruction of justice is what democrats are trying to do to the attorney general. they are trying to stop him by all these things it's contempt and not having him come testify he are trying to stop him from getting the answers. maria: by the way what you said a minute ago about chuck schumer
saying that the intel agencies will take six days to sunday to get you back? sally yates said that too remember last year remember? john brennan gets you back and john brennan was all over tv calling president treasonist, pedaling his former cia director title. >> and when was john brennan's name ever on a ballot, james clapper, james comey, and rye mccabe, lisa page, peter strzok not one of them were on a ballot but donald trump's name was and he was elected president of the united states and for them just because they didn't lake that didn't like the fact that the american people picked this guy to be our commander-in-chief they go after him. that was scary and that's why i would encourage every one of your viewers to read his letter. he lays this out the leaking and the spying all of this so important and we get to the bottom and that's what scares the democrats and why they are targeting attorney general barr. maria: well you had this group of people running the intel agencies, they were running the world. you had them running the fbi, the cia, the nsa, and frankly,
they didn't like donald trump's personality congressman that's it. they didn't want him as president. didn't matter he was duly- elected. >> maria we now know they mislead people twice. the fisa court, when they took the clinton campaign paid for document when they paid the law firm who then hired fusion who then went and hired a foreigner christopher steele to put this gordon chang badge document together this dossier that became the basis for that and we also learned last week that the with this person they planted to go after george papadopoulos they were trying to mislead there too. this is how this all started and if we now learned that mifsud was working as a western intelligence committee asset that is scary so this is why this investigation -- maria: extraordinary. real quick i got to get to immigration but real quick, do you have a date for robert mueller to testify in front of your committee? i know that they've offered what the some time in may? >> yeah, that's up to jerry nadler he's the chairman. look i said all along if they want to bring in robert mueller
fine i'll ask him questions, and that's fine and if they bring him in i think that's okay. maria: do you think we'll get accountability for the fisa abuse and for this obstruction that has taken place? >> i do. i think mr. michael horowitz will have his report as you know some time in the next four to six weeks, i look forward to reading that michael horowitz has done good work in the past i expect another good report from the inspector general. maria: let me move on because last week, "sunday morning futures" was privileged enough to become the only program to be able to broadcast an entire show from the busiest border crossing in america and that is el paso and what we saw was just stunning. children putting in into terrible positions and then we found out, we got confirmation that there's a renting of children going on in else, honduras, guatemala where people are renting their kids giving their kids to people across-the-boarder and sending the kids back here is what the mayor of el paso told me.
watch this. the children are being put into very dangerous situations. >> in some cases they're informing me we may have i don't know how to phrase it, rental children so to speak that they aren't necessarily the actual families they are bringing these children in so they are human trafficking, there are some real serious issues that congress needs to address. maria: is congress going to address it? >> unfortunately i don't think the democrats are going to work with us to do what everyone now knows in this country, needs to be done. you need to build a border security wall and change our asylum laws. we've said for the president, this is a crisis, finally now even some on the left are realizing it is in fact a crisis but human trafficking problem the gang problem, the drug problem, this is a crisis, but you have to do two fundamental things, change the asylum law, build the border security wall those two things have to happen first and the democrats just don't want to go there because for them it's all about poll sicks and all about going after the president.
maria: because it's just going to give him another victory. congressman good to see you thanks very much. congressman jim jordan we'll take a break when we come back former attorney general michael mukasey on all of that. stay with us. all money managers might seem the same, but some give their clients cookie cutter portfolios. fisher investments tailors portfolios to your goals and needs. some only call when they have something to sell. fisher calls regularly so you stay informed. and while some advisors are happy to earn commissions whether you do well or not. fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. maybe that's why most of our clients come from other money managers. fisher investments. clearly better money management. nueven if you try to eat well,.
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don't provide any personal or financial information to these thieves. call the social security fraud hotline at 1-800-269-0271 maria: welcome back. congressional democrats are gearing up for a bitter battle with attorney general william barr and jerry nadler giving barr an ultimatum before moving forward with his threat to hold the ag in contempt. i understand from my sources he's going to try to mark up a resolution this wednesday. judge michael mukasey joins me now in an exclusive interview served as attorney general under president george w. bush and your honor it is always a pleasure to see you thanks so much for joining us this morning >> good to be here. maria: before we go into what took place this past week your reaction to what you've heard on this program so far this morning >> well, that was quite a tossed salad of facts that we
got from george papadopoulos and but i think that he's only part of the story, and bill barr has said that he's going to conduct an investigation to how all of this got started and i think that george papadopoulos is only part of it. maria: okay, so when you say a salad of facts tell me how you see all of this, and what has taken place in the last two years. i mean, we know that this guy was, he had outreach from all of these spies across the world. we also know that the fbi spied on the trump campaign. what can you tell us? >> i think we also know that it really didn't get started with george papadopoulos as the report says it started before that, but there's a great deal we don't know. we're going to know more when the inspector general, michael horowitz, issues his report. we may know more when lindsey graham conducts hearing in the senate. after all of that, mr. barr has said that he is putting together
a team to look into all of this, and he can take the results of the ig report, the ig doesn't have subpoena power doesn't use a grand jury, but any investigation that's conducted within the justice department by people put together by a team put together by bill barr is going to be able to use a grand jury they can take that and whatever they get from the graham hearings and use it to find out what really happened. maria: if he is able to do his work we saw what happened last week a bit of a circus where the democrats are now saying that bill barr is being the ag for the president and not for the united states, so let me ask you straight out. did william barr lie last week? >> straight out? no. there were two questions at issue. one came from chris van hahn, he asked him whether he knew if robert mueller agreed with his conclusion as to obstruction,
where barr said but he would not press forward with obstruction, because robert mueller refused to come to a conclusion about obstruction. the truth full answer to that was he did not know and that's what he said. he did not know. he was also asked by chilly christ whether he knew about what was upsetting various members of the mueller team leak ing their displeasure with the statement that barr put out that bill barr put out on march 24 where he stated the conclusions that the top line conclusions that the mueller report reached that there was no collusion, that no criminal agreement between the trump campaign and the russians, and that he reported accurately that although mueller said he couldn't press charges, of obstruction, he said he could not exonerate the president and of course it's not any prosecutor's job to exonerate
anybody, but bill barr reported that faithfully so when he was asked whether he knew what was upsetting him his truth full answer was no. they were upset -- maria: this is all obstruction, obstructing an honest broker. michael mukasey stay put we'll take a short break i've got to ask you about the obama white house, next.
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maria: welcome back and i am back with former attorney general michael mukasey and judge before we went to the break we were talking about the circus that took place last week after william barr did not testify, tell us a little about william barr as you know him is this obstruction on the part of the democrats to take down an honest broker? >> i think what it is is an attempt to divert attention in part and also an attempt to discredit what he intends to do by conducting an investigation
into how all of this got started and by all of this i mean the events that were depicked in part in the beginning of your program, george papadopoulos and the rest. maria: judge, i mean, the fisa warrant did not happen until later in the year, so it's clear that there was spying going on before they actually had the warrant to do so. is that a fair statement? >> well you don't need a warrant to put an informant into talk to somebody; however, you do need a good reason and when you're talking about putting an agent into talk to somebody in connection with a political campaign, you need a very good reason, and obviously, that's what the attorney general had in mind, when he wondered whether this was all properly predicated not whether it was a good reason , and i think that the answer to that likely will turn out to be "no." there were plenty of bad reasons
maria: two questions real quick, before we go. first of all people want to know how far up the chain this went. did president obama give the directive to all of this? i know you probably can't answer that but more importantly, judge , are we -- >> that's right i can't. maria: are we going to see accountability here for the people who perhaps did try to entrap trump campaign members? >> well we're going to see accountability when william barr says that he is going to conduct an investigation into how all of this got started and he believes he has good reason to do it he will follow through, and he said he's putting together a team of people at the justice department they are going to have access to a grand jury and we will find out what happened we will find out who is responsible for what happened, which i think accounts for a lot of the reasons that people are accusing him falsely of making false statements to congress. that's an attempt to discredit what he's about to do. but he's not a man easily deterred. maria: judge good to see you thanks very much, your honor,
michael mukasey joining us there >> good to be here. maria: what an incredible story. that'll do it for us this morning "sunday morning futures" thanks for joining me i'm maria bartiromo join me tomorrow morning with more on the fox -keep it down there. i have a system. -keith used to be great to road-trip with. but since he bought his house... are you going 45? -uh, yes. 55 is a suggestion. -...it's kind of like driving with his dad. -what a sign, huh? terry, can you take a selfie of me? -take a selfie of you? -yeah. can you make it look like i'm holding it? -he did show us how to bundle home and auto at progressive.com and save a bunch of money. -oh, a plaque. "he later navigated northward, leaving... progressive can't protect you from becoming your parents. but we can protect your home and auto when you bundle with us.
♪ good evening everybody. attorney general william barr on capitol hill today. for four hours, the attorney general endured the predictable smears vik tree y'all from radical dems who absolutely disgraced themselves today. they misrepresented attorney intentionally and called him a liar insulted his position. it was a magnificent performance by extraordinary band of fools on the judiciary committee. the radical dem through it all attorney general once again exhibiting patience intellect