tv Bulls Bears FOX Business June 12, 2019 5:00pm-6:00pm EDT
bringing food, food going out of the sky. i jumped about this once. god forbid i actually had to go pick up my apizza down the street. that doesn't press, thank you for joining us. "bulls & bears" starts now. >> democratic socialism means to me, requiring and achieving political and economic freedom in every community in this country. the only way we achieve these goals is through a political revolution. david: 2020 candidate and bernie sanders defending socialism why slimy president trump in a speech at george washington university today. good evening, everybody this is "bulls & bears", thank you for joining us i'm david asman, joining me on the panel john,
steve, and scott. and while free college, healthcare and affordable housing, bernie sanders also calling out president trump for his attacks on socialism. >> it is a hate democratic socialism because it benefits working people. but the absolutely love corporate socialism that reaches another billionaires. he is attacking all that we take for granted. from social security, medicare, veteran healthcare, roads and bridges to public schools to national parks to clean water and clean air. that is a different between donald trump and me. he believes in corporate socialism for the rich and powerful, i believe in the democratic socialism that works for the working families. david: will american voters by
his vision of america or only the super rich benefit from capitalism? >> the fact of the matter is, what he is proposing will mean less freedom, less opportunity for most americans. it means higher taxes, less economic growth which means less opportunity to get the skills and better paying jobs in the safety net will be tattered because they have to ration healthcare instead of having a system we encourage at a more affordable cost it's opposite of what he says. he says the socialist only applies to the rich and big corporations, and makes it sounds i get the poison that only they should have. it's going to hit all of the emerging people and the american people will not buy it, they want more not less. >> he also says wealthy, if you look at bernie balance sheet, one paid him for in full in the
pension he is sitting on, the money he is gone from the book deals over the course of his life, he is wealthy. it is interesting to hear that coming from him when he talked about 70 like himself. but don't ask him about the wealth that he has because he does not want to talk about. not only is it that cases stands up at the fact that he is going to attack all businesses and as we know from the stat, small business create more than half the economic activity as create half the jobs created in this country, those are the ones that are going to go after an attack these policies so the commodity. >> bernie sanders has removed from his speeches, he used to say millionaires and billionaires and outrageous as billionaires. however, if were going to raise the point of universal healthcare, medicare for all which is a major platform for him, it resonates with a lot of democrats, maybe more so universal healthcare not the medicare 1% april system. i think this is something we
need to address because overall the arching branch of socialism does constitute universal healthcare, free education and the definition amongst a lot has changed from what we remember it, maybe not me but back in the day in the soviet era. as such the same type of socialism which is why it's resonating and you mentioned he is wealthy but he is catering to what some people are talking about inequality in a level playing field when it comes to portability and healthcare. >> a bigger question does scott jackie have batteries or long extension cord -- it took the easter bunny to get this. >> it took capitalism. [laughter] >> you look great, and old lan n like me cannot get away with that. >> this is a william jennings bribed. his quote was, no one can make a million dollar, and the money
behind him, j.p. morgan specifically. no one can make a million dollars a year not be a crook. there is nothing new about the populist way that is going on. it's added the socialist tent to it with bernie sanders and i think for some of the believes in socialism, our congress has made it where we cannot afford but this is the only way that bernie sanders can get elected if the economy stay strong because of this economy stay strong presidents tend to get reelected and strong economies. >> he describes the world in exactly the opposite way that it really works. he describes capitalism, i'm quoting him from today "it creates poverty, despair, economic distress" he never mentions a billion people moved out of extreme poverty in the last 20 years because of capitalism.
it is not so much the top, he's always talking about capitalism is representing the richest of the rich, he doesn't get to the middle class, he doesn't mention the billions of people that have moved out of extreme poverty. >> up until the middle class because of capitalism. >> those other ones that it really helps. steve mentioned something about corporations and the benefits that they provide. i am a small business owner, as we have had, yes i agree a more favorable tax environment in the last year, we have expended benefits coverage. we've had more money to work with to offer our employees and other similar corporations, that has spread amongst the business community because we have a more favorable environment. were not courting the cash, were adding it to the benefits package for employees. >> john said that 1900 william jennings said he had to be a crook to become a millionaire, can we say that today about a politician parks how does a politician become a millionaire?
>> the whole thing is, how do you provide opportunity for people to get ahead. capitalism is about optimism. the people are going to be creative, bernie sanders is sort of a star press, we cannot advance anymore, redistribute have it free kids we cannot produce anymore, it's a grim picture of the future. >> yes kirsten gillibrand and many others are doing, and their taken advantage -- >> that is not capitalism, that is phony as a. using the power the state -- >> weather is phony a, whatevert is it's all bad. but that is not premarket. >> there's another name, corporative i what he is
describing is fascism. but if you were to buy his vision of the way the world, not just way america works but the world, socialist countries would be well off. they would be the ones to have the middle-class, capitalist countries would be poor and in fact the vast majority of cases, there are exceptions where country has a lot of oil like norway that can subsidize a lot of their programs but the vast majority, socialist countries, the majority of the people are poor, capitalist countries have a middle-class -- >> what about australia. >> they might have a welfare state policy. i would go that far, but they're not social. >> when you look at europe, rich welfare systems, look at the growth rate in the last ten years, a third to half of that of the united states. they do not grow in name one country with the socialist medical system that does not
ration. >> the ones i have are denmark have gone back to go back to the capitalist system because it did not work. >> denmark is trying to push in a 401k attention system because they can't afford the old one. >> canadians waiting to get into the united states of operations because they can't get into canada. also the connected system is they have a lot of drawbacks against. >> ministers from around the globe. >> but socialism is worse than capitalism. >> they push to complete domination, we will take you there next. ♪ ♪
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day in hong kong. it ended with the police using tear gas and rubber bullets. trying to break up a daylong protest, the more significant news may have come earlier in the day, what was supposed to happen did not happen. the big news today was supposed to be the debate over the controversial extradition bill in hong kong legislator, the protesters pretty much just walked everybody from getting into the building where the debate was. and, the authorities felt they had no other choice but to delay the debate. what happens next, we don't know. what we do know where some of the protesters, we spent a lot of time with them, a lot of young people, many of them grown up in hong kong and what they all seem to tell us, they do not want to see this place change. >> no reason to make us into a criminal and sadistic china or at some other places that we cannot imagine so it's a very
serious situation. reporter: what do you think would change about your home if this passes. >> china can do whatever they want and they can extradite people from hong kong -- >> there is a lot on the line because what the extradition bill would allow, the protester for your it will allow for someone in hong kong and accused of a crime, potentially to be sent to mainland china, where the judicial system is much different. the business community is concerned in the united states government has spoken out against it but the chief executive in hong kong supported, we will see what happens next and continue to follow it. >> take you. all of this happening with the u.s. china trade negotiation is on the line, president trump reiterating his intention to meet with president xi jinping later this month, what role will display in our negotiation. let's bring in wall street journal bill mcgrady he spent ten years living in hong kong,
he wrote in wall street journal entitled china million deficit. >> the things you just showed unspeakably sad, i lived there ten years, i loved it. the people of hong kong are the most law-abiding people of the world. the stuff with police and bato batons, i never saw anything like it. this is china, this is what china does to the society. all they needed to do was have a light hand and they treat people like criminals and some of them will act that way. >> i want to go back to trade talks, give the united states a there may be a meeting, it doesn't seemed like that's a consensus on the other side that that is china say nothing has been formalized but maybe a dinner. maybe there could be piecemeal deals like may be looser legal. >> no meeting or nothing really major is going to come out of
the. >> that's a danger of president trump, he placed the high risk again, he raises the stakes in mexico older, the question is whether china will fold and we don't know what the terms are. >> thank you for being on the show, i appreciate it, i did not mean to cut you off, it is a big part of the land in the big intersection historically, it's one of the reasons china has blocked 1 million muslim uighurs into detention camps. this is insane to me that there's not more of a public car. i know it should china be in china but why is there not a bigger outcry in the world going on what china is doing on hong kong. >> what he says is a key point, this is the same man, what is been done in hong kong is because of president xi jinping. he is a contingency. the government does not serve the people of hong kong, no one
in hong kong is for this. they know they mean it means a midnight knock on the door for them. which he did not have before, why would he do it to hong kong people? >> it is sad because hong kong is a great success story of post-world war ii second real estate in its own border, still does. it became one of the richest societies in the world because of the freedom. is there any chance that they might find a face-saving way to back off the chinese with this kind of thing in the year, the 30th anniversary of you know what in you know where. >> the british would've done that, the problem now is so hard for them to back down without a complete loss of faith in embarrassment. a gang because the government in hong kong does not answer, any mildly representative, the chief executive presiding over this disaster would have to resign. but because --
>> our constituency is impinging, not on hong kong. these people that are out there, they're desperate because their young, they're desperate because some people will say, i'm going to send my kids to america, great college, great life, a lot of people do not have the option. this is in the field china will treat them like criminals. the genius of the hong kong system apart from free-trade, the competitive advantages, money and yourself are safe here because we're not china and this makes them china. >> this is got martin, that's a concern i have, china is suffering in embarrassment or obviously serious pushback with some of the things that they showed on the interviews. what do you think they eventually do if things keep bubbling up, the major trade war with the united states, obviously steve mentioned the anniversary of a terrible tragedy 30 years ago, do you think china makes similar mistakes to 30 years ago if this
continues? >> they looked week and then the attacks. i don't see how they back down and even if they were forced to back down if these actions get out of control, the cost will be terrible to hong kong. >> are they shooting themselves in the foot, they need hong kong, it's a banking engine fac. these people break things, and they turn people, look at these images, this is not the hong kong i knew. >> the 2020 democratic joe biden changing stance on china, here is what he said about china last month and what he is saying now. >> china is going to be our lunch, come on man they are not bad folks. their competition first.
>> you but i'm worried about china, when it comes to taking on china, first let's invest in america, let's build a united front, our allies to china's abusive behavior. >> come on man, what do you think of this? >> it's going to be embarrassment when you see these kind of division's. secretary pompeo was talking in the 1930s meaning the camps in europe and so forth. and these are not, this is not hyperbole, they're not killing uighurs yet but they're rounding them up like this and is across-the-board. christian churches are being torn down boo to suppress, if you keep doing that without some reaction. if you try to make a deal with them, catholic church tried to make a deal with the commonest government where essentially they give the communist and the atheist government the right to choose bishops but they went on after the agreement to burn more churches that is why this ministration is so careful about
the agreement the theater to make of the chinese because they rip up a lot -- >> the cardinal of hong kong who is out there but this people in the face, it's so distressing. >> mh emotional. >> it does. it's my home, watching these images, is so distressing what china is doing and getting away with it. >> what is president she's playing? does he think he can have a vibrant innovative -- >> i don't think they care if they lose vibrancy. the communist believe in the control, almost 40 years ago now when i met him in hong kong, his father had been an nationalist general and this is one of the criticism was mild, both for the turnover, and he said his father always said, martin, never trust communist. and i think we're seeing that. the sound advice, they do not keep their word and the brutal. >> thank you for coming in and bringing her heart. i am sorry about that.
>> good stuff. i appreciate it internal e-mails may lead to trouble for mark zuckerberg, what the wall street journal found that has facebook more than a little concerned and investors running for the hills. that is next. ♪ ♪ technology makes it brilliant. the visionary lexus nx. lease the 2019 nx 300 for $359/month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. a cockroach can survive heresubmerged ttle guy. underwater for 30 minutes. wow. yeah. not getting in today. terminix. defenders of home.
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come from other money managers. fisher investments. clearly better money management. >> breaking news, this is affecting facebook fortune and possibly futures will pay the wall street journal reported that e-mails have been found connecting ceo mark soderberg to some of the companies most disturbing privacy problems, the journal sources claim the e-mails were behind facebook desire to quickly settle over violations of a 2012 of the breakup of facebook or the departure of mr. zuckerberg.
>> you been following the salty, what is the latest. >> you have a situation where the asked facebook to stop sharing user data. in out of the privacy settings, this is what can be about over the last year or so. these e-mails which are sources could start to reveal how zuckerberg, the founder ceo himself started speaking with developers and started talking about privacy setting but moving quickly and moving along. there's still a lot of gray areas according to what they are seen but we don't know yet if he could be implemented in this, could he have known about user data being shared? these are all under two questions but we still know the ftc has been undergoing an investigation for the past year and facebook aside, we are setting aside $5 million for potential fines. >> 5 billion with a b, i'll tell you what else is interesting, how could he not know, he's the head of the company, his attack
himself, so many stops along the way, the users that were using the apps that were getting shared on the mobile, how could he not know being where he is, and furthermore, being attacked and being the fact that he started this whole thing, how dumb is he to put stuff like this that is so controversial over e-mails. that's another question himself. this will be dumb alone he should be named as respondent in the claim, to me it doesn't matter because if you look at the stock, advertisers, and may use, all is good and we own facebook is a stock. >> i own facebook as well, full disclosure, but what you will see is real pressure on zuckerberg to bring in as a beginning and nonexecutive chairman, chairman ceo, bringing somebody seen as an adult, somebody who can give him guidance and i think that pressure is going to become overwhelming in the next few days. >> i own facebook stock as well,
i sold it recently because of this, i think politicians, this is red meat for politicians, specifically, they went after all companies, real estate companies, politicians loves going after banks, big tech, i think your 100% right, i think facebook will be okay, you have to have billion people use facebook or one of the apps per month, it's one of the good companies, at least for now and in the immediate future because of what congress is going to do. >> you will miss the next 20 bucks. >> i hope not. >> i think you might and i hope you do. you brought up something interesting, what happens if zuckerberg stepped on. i think it hurts a company, can you keep him strategically placed in the company. >> hill keep for now, he controls the company, so they cannot force him out. but i think you'd stay on a ceo but if you bring on an aged
techie, an older techie as chairman to reassure people that when these crises come up there's an adult that who's been through a lot of these to give advice, give guidance and the people have reassurance for the future. every time it looks like it's rising up again, they seem to have a crab fall, i have to mention, the wall street journal has not actually seen the e-mails they're getting this from sources, we don't know precisely what is in their or who is sharing the e-mails with the wall street journal, but if they do show him in violation of the 2012 consent agreement that he signed, he signed it with the ftc, if he is in defiance of that i am wondering if he could be criminally liable. >> of course he can, but how long can this potentially go on.
>> you save course but there's a lot of people debating. >> of the emotional, and so far that's what the wall street journal sources are alluding to. we have not seen them sore. freezing the report. what facebook is trying to do is come ahead of the curve and be up front. just over the last month they lost a new program in the apple google store called study where they will pay users to get the data. i don't know how much you can get paid, but if you download study on your phone it will track where you're going, how long your own apps, they are trained to be ahead of the cur curve. >> go-ahead, if i do miss the $20 up, you can buy me one of the purple jackets from dinner. >> he'll never get off that subject. [laughter] >> we have to move on, as democrats pushing, universal healthcare on the campaign chair, congress taking it up a notch on capitol hill, does this ever become the law of the lien? we will ask new york congressman. he is with us next
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>> a heated debate over healthcare on the hill, the house ways and means committee sparring over universal healthcare. new york congressman tom reed earlier. >> i'm not questioning the motives of the folks that are putting forth the proposal for medicare fraud. they want to have a better healthcare opportunity for americans. as a republican, i am offended that i get accused of not caring about americans. i get offended that all them here in washington, d.c. to father my pockets. in the all i care about is almighty dollar. i want a system that is better. i want a system that responds to the american voice this is these costs are killing us. >> congressman reed joins us.
how would you make the healthcare system work better. >> i would not go down the path of government control of healthcare like were discussing today in the hearing for medicare fraud. i'd rather empower patients, doctors and reward good behavior when it comes to prescription medicines that are prescribed appropriately. make sure that they are driving costs down as opposed to what we see in healthcare in america that rework cost ever increasingly going up. >> during the obama administration, the congress kept saying they want to repeal and replace obamacare, they would do it on day one, but pretty much like republican establishment. all the sudden president trump get selected and i don't think anybody expected it and there was no day one, there is no day two, no day 1000. where is the healthcare bill the guy said you're gonna put forward. you guys have not delivered on what you promise for years. >> first and foremost, were proposing a healthcare is in the
power of the people and on the power of government. a legislative one side fits all type of approach is not going to be what you see in regards to a solution of healthcare coming out of washington, d.c. what we will do is realign the incentives under medicare, medicaid so the good behavior with patience is rewarded, good behavior by doctors is rewarded. a good quality outcome is what the outcome in the way you get reimbursed providing the care. right now it's all perverse and that's a course of a republican model that changes healthcare for good for all americans. >> congressman, what about the idea of removing some of the restrictions or all the restrictions on health savings accounts such as using the money for nonprescription drugs, you don't have to have a healthcare plan to have your own hsa, and what about nationwide shopping for health insurance, baby steps in that direction that go all the way inhabit the real
investigation of pbm's, pharmaceutical benefit managers which are about half the price of the drugs that the consumers pay for their specific ideas and those fears that you put on the table? >> absolutely those have been put forward, you're going down the right path. the reforms that can get us into the right direction are transparency, accountability and rewarding outcome in a market healthcare system. right now we do not have that, that's a cornerstone of a republican model that can work, where people control the future healthcare, not government and also people are a part of the solution and not the government proposal that i heard about today. >> i'm going to take john and steve's question and join into one. it sounds like you're giving talking points about power of the people and rewarding patients and rewarding doctors by not giving concrete suggestions as to how we can approve the system. yes we have the democratic party that some cannot agree on medicare fraud, some are suggesting universal healthcare and private insurance makes into
that. but so far what i've heard from you is flowery words. >> at the heart of it, to take the reimbursement policies under medicare and medicaid and what do you say, we will reward doctors for good quality outcomes. that is a complete reimbursement model changed them what healthcare in the government run healthcare is today under medicare. we will align the incentives to doctors and patients are awarded and will go to the pbm's and others in healthcare and say, where is the money coming, why are the cost driven so high so we can use the power of people to hold them accountable -- >> what about the lobbyist that have been tested to much money at all of you capitol hill? >> is not about investing in us, it's about pulling the curtain back so there's transparency. were all about holding them accountable, the pharmaceutical companies, the pbm's, right now you don't have that in the healthcare world of america, if you do that for some to
disclose, where are you negotiating, where are you setting the prices, then the people will start demanding and they will seek behavioral change, the providers that look and get the cost going in the direction going down. >> this is got market, see another doctor said of things, we have a major medical drain and i've a lot of doctors as clients, they're not happy about entering the profession and not recommended people going into the profession. >> that is a proposal, to be honest, i supported, is part of the solution but that is not going to cure this issue of the american healthcare system. we need to realign the incentives under the public plants that we have we had to bring transparency and accountability to the market as well as to the healthcare market in america. it does not happen today. >> too many lawyers. >> i know medicare is an untouchable subject inside the
belly because there a lot of seniors voting, if medicare ms. spence $60 billion every year, and wasted fraud, what is to think if we went to medicare for all we were not exponentially increase in number? you got it. to think that somehow the government bureaucrats can hold the process into account that's not how it works. government operates on 95, how will you deal with the need on 2:00 o'clock in the morning. this is why healthcare is going down the step of the solution is not the solution. we need to get to the system that reward good outcomes, reward and financially drive market pressures to get cost going down not up. >> when are you going to do this? you promised a one you're going to do this and you keep talking, and you do nothing. -- >> why will we go down the democratic plan and replace it
with a complete government run plan. >> you said repeal and replace. >> will happen the last time, there was one vote, senator is no longer alive, one vote that stop that from happening, we have the on the table. >> we did. >> what he going to do now? >> we are not going to brace for the government experiment, if you want to talk about reinsurance reform and payment reimbursement reform, we can get into an agreement on this. >> is a huge subject, we will ask you to come back and see us again as things progress. thank you for being here we appreciated. >> we will be speaking in a fox business exclusive with seema burma, she's the head of the centers for medicare and medicaid services, she has a lot to say about all of this medicare fraud, in the meantime,
remember this, the shrimp on a treadmill, to symbolize the impediment of government waste. it is a brand-new report out with the examples, you will not believe our panel is going to weigh in on this and how your tax dollars are being used coming up next ♪ ♪ key portfolio events. all in one place. because when it's decision time... you need decision tech. only from fidelity. you need decision tech. can't see what it is yet.re? what is that? that's a blazer? that's a chevy blazer? aww, this is dope. this thing is beautiful. i love the lights. oh man, it's got a mean face on it. it looks like a piece of candy. look at the interior. this is nice. this is my sexy mom car. i would feel like a cool dad. it's just really chic. i love this thing.
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>> addicted to pork, the pick pork just releasing details as some of the shocking ways congress is spending your tax dollars. some of the ways they highlighted includes $2 billion for fighter jets that were not even requested by the pentagon, nearly 14 million for wildhorse and borough management, i love that one, 9 million for fruit fly quarantines among others, how do we put in and to the outrageous spending? >> i don't think we do, when this came out today i thought maybe this was a book i read to my kids, pick book, but it's terrible stuff. it's horrifyingly. one listed some good ones, there was about $670,000 to eradicate the brown tree snake an.
the spending over the last couple of years, five years, it is way up. not only are we wasting this money on the ruthless projects, they're actually going up at a very alarming rate and cost. >> i disagree about the brown snakes an. i am also supporting the program in washington with snakes. >> good luck with that we'll have a tree there. the only way you fight this is through exposure and ridicule and how about attaching names to the people who push these programs? and have them come on independent. >> transparency, why do we need 9 million for fruit fly quarantines programs that helps fly research. >> this is something, this is like giving a person who has a brain tumor and asked for headache. i agree completely that you need
to expose these guys, if i worked for forbes magazine, and took money that was supposed to go to a project and i built a fence around my house, no matter how good it looked, i would get fired at best. i'd probably get prosecuted. >> this is theft. and this is a symptom of how bad our congress is. we have the most probably get spending intercountry history with 3% gdp, were on a trillion dollar deficit, these guys cannot balance anything. >> the reason is there are no consequences and that is why the age of social media -- and you say this is what your representative is doing, you might get some reaction. but people are showing up at town hall and asking what is this about treadmill for shrimp?
>> i think the sad thing is, we've seen recently the tax cuts and everything else, the treasury department yet record amounts of tax receipts coming in the lender, payor, the anything of last resort, the taxpayer is paying in and therefore there taking -- >> another thing that happens, not only the spending but want to implement a plan, it always increases and price, for example the f35 fighters that were not requested by the pedagogue that's about $2 billion, the lifetime of maintenance for these things is $1.6 trillion, not only do you pay 1.8 billion but once they're in there you have to keep them updated, keep the maintained and that over one and a half trillion dollars over a lifetime. that's a problem, once they're instituted like any bureaucracy, they grow. ronald reagan had it right, the closest thing to immortality in this world is a government program. what about mpr, they don't
benefit anybody except the democratic national committee. there's a lot of conservative and liberal outlets out there, why do we have to pay for something that we might not believe in? >> no answer. >> i listen to it every morning. >> but then you can have the other side argues the same thing. >> the taxpayers have to pay for. >> some do have some conservative reporters, i'm not here to defend mpr -- >> you might want to read the fine print before purchasing furniture going forward otherwise you may be stuck with bedbugs and no way to fight back. we will discuss that coming up next ♪ ♪ ug ♪ mmm, exactly! liberty mutual customizes your car insurance,
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fisher investments tailors portfolios to your goals and needs. some only call when they have something to sell. fisher calls regularly so you stay informed. and while some advisors are happy to earn commissions whether you do well or not. fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. maybe that's why most of our clients come from other money managers. fisher investments. clearly better money management. david: the illinois retailer wayfair has been accused of being sold a headboard with bedbug. there is a waiver that bars customers from suing if anything goes wrong. >> i did buy a wayfair headboard
and did not read the 4,500 word document. he ornlt received a 10% discount coupon and apology even though he claims there were dozens of bugs and thed with blood crawling on the bed where he laid. >> the illinois man who filed that complaint is not me. so leave me alone. this is a little person responsibility. when you are making this purchase -- i'm just saying, caveat emptor. when it comes to being in a coast law or suing people', it's on the website.
>> the thing is, most of of those contracts and arbitrations clauses are there for a good reason. trial lawyers feast on these things. they take you to court. they get most of of the money. and trials take so throng that trial lawyers pay up. but you can't trust the court system any more. that's the problem. he i agree, what's wrong with this company stepping up saying it could have been our fault. i don't think it is. there is nothing wrong with a company doing the right thing. >> to steve's point. to get away from frivolous lawsuits. there were 426 million consumer
arbitration agreements. so it is taking a load off the courts. that does it forward "bulls and bears." see you next time. blake: no deadline. it's in his head and no one can quite figure it out. that from the rrp with his next potential batch of tariffs against china. more concerns regarding frontal boundary and your privacy. but there is a reported lead to the company head, mark zuckerberg and internal worries about emails. why the u.s. president in europe is about to get a bit after