tv The Kelly File FOX News September 1, 2014 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT
tonight. i am bill o'reilly. please always remember that the spin stops right here. we're definitely looking out for you. live from america's news headquarters, i'm kelly wright. president obama will meet with nato leaders. high on the president's agenda, what to do about the growing crisis stemming from isis and other terror groups. earlier today british prime minister david cameron unveiled a set of proposals allowing police in the uk to seize passports of britains -- urging mr. obama to act just as quickly. >> the president talked about setting up this coalition. they started a year ago. and they can't put it together. how long do we wait? the longer we wait, the more dangerous isis becomes. >> and intelligence sources estimate hundreds of britains and americans have joined terror
groups in the mideast despite islamic clerics condemning extremism. i'm kelly wright. now stay tuned for a "the kelly file" special. good evening everyone. i'm megyn kelly. welcome to our "the kelly file" special on bill ayers. a man who admits to bombing this country. he got away scot free. because this is america he wound up as a college professor who even helped the president launch his political career. over the years mr. ayers managed to redefine himself not as a domestic terrorist but as a revolutionary. a kid who merely vandalized, not one who inspired murder. he is a man who took chances with other people's lives and took every chance to dodge the
tough questions until one day he agreed to come to fox news and sit down with yours truly. >> barack obama and domestic terrorist bill ayers, friends. they've worked together for years. but obama tries to hide it. why? >> he was one of the most controversial figures of barack obama's 2008 presidential campaign. >> our opponent is someone who sees america as imperfect enough to pal around with terrorists who targeted their own country. >> the notion that somehow as a consequence of me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago when i was 8 years old somehow reflects on me and my values doesn't make much sense. >> a man everyone wanted to talk to, but whose silence was deafening. >> what's your relationship with
barack obama? >> bill ayers, friend of the man who would-be president, an unrepentant terrorist whose group bombed america over and over again. >> let's remember that what you call a violent past, that was at a time when thousands of people were being murdered by our government every month. and those of us who fought to end that war were actually on the right side. >> the son of a prominent illinois businessman, ayers came of age in the 1960s, drawn to the civil disobedience of the day and deeply offended by the vietnam war. >> we will build a revolutionary youth capable of engaging in the war against the imperialists. we will engage acts until imperialism -- >> at age 25 he joined the left wing students for a democratic society. in late '69 they held protests in chicago full of rage about
the war, race relations and the wealthy. they ravaged the city's business district, six people were shot and dozens more arrested. later that year a seminole moment. black panther leader fred hampton was shot and killed by chicago police. out of that moment the group the weathermen was born. a radical spin-off from sds. its mission, the violent overthrow of the u.s. government. >> in every institution in this country from now on -- >> shortly thereafter a san francisco police station is bombed and an officer killed. police later say the weathermen did it. next comes the bombing of a new york judge's home. the group then plot to bomb a military dance, but their explosives go off too soon destroying a new york city townhouse. found buried in the rubble 60 sticks of dynamite. the fbi concludes had the explosives detonated they would have leveled everything on both sides of the street. three members of the weathermen
are killed in that blast, including ayers' girlfriend identified by a single remaining finger. the weathermen go into hiding and change their name to the weather underground. still, the attacks continue. >> now we're everywhere. and next week families and tribes will attack the enemy around the country. we are not just attacking targeting. we are bringing a pitiful helpless giant to its knees. >> soon the group takes credit for more bombings. ayers believed to be personally involved in at least three of them. new york city police headquarters in 1970, the bombing of the u.s. capital in '71, the bombing of the pentagon in 1972. around this time ayers falls in love with fellow weatherman leader bernadine dohrn. by 1973 the u.s. involvement in vietnam is ending, but ayers and dohrn don't surrender until 1980. they only resurfaced because they had learned the most
serious charges had been dropped due to government misconduct in the investigation, an incredible stroke of luck for the pair. within a year their former weathermen comrades were at it again, this time robbing a brinks truck in a crime that left three people dead. ayers and dohrn settle in chicago, enter academia and later go onto befriend barack obama, hosting a fundraiser for the then-illinois senate candidate. when their friend becomes a presidential candidate, ayers stays mostly quiet but emerges soon after the election sounding far from remorseful. >> i've been quoted again and again as saying i don't regret it. and frankly -- and saying i don't think we did enough. and i don't think we did enough. >> and now for the first time ever bill ayers walks into the fox news headquarters to face tough questions about his past and his future. >> so we have to talk about you
and your domestic terrorist past. let's start with this. let's start with this. how many bombings are you responsible for? >> weather underground i think took credit for just slightly over 20 in a period when there were 20,000 bombings in the united states against the war. >> and how about you personally? >> me personally i've never talked about it. never will. >> okay. you could have hurt some people. >> absolutely. >> you acknowledge that. >> absolutely. >> you claim you never did, but you acknowledge the risks. >> oh, there was a terrible risk. and we actually did hurt. three of our own people died in the townhouse in new york city in 1970. and that was an incalculable, horrible, devastating loss. and yet what they were apparently planning to do would have been more devastating. so it's a tragedy personally to us, and to me, but yeah. >> we'll get to that in a minute. that was a nail bomb they were putting together. but the weather underground began in 1969 with protests. it was over the vietnam -- >> 1970. >> okay. over the vietnam war. but it became more and more militant as the years passed,
the early '70s. in 1970 you declared a state of war against the u.s. government and urged your comrades, as you call them, to be more violent. >> there's no way to be committed to nonviolence in the middle of the most violent society that history's ever created. i'm not committed to nonviolence in any way. >> why was more violence the answer? >> you know, i wouldn't argue that more violence was the answer -- >> but those are your people. >> what she said is i'm not committed to nonviolence. >> well, you were upping the violent rhetoric as well. >> there's no question our rhetoric was outstripped a lot of what was going on. there's no question. but here's the reality, i was arrested for opposing the war in vietnam in 1965. over the next three years -- five years, i was arrested many times in demonstrations and actions sitting in nondraft boards, all nonviolent all in attempt to bring a screaming warning that we were killing 6,000 people a week. and when the war dragged on after 1968 when the majority of people had come to oppose the
war, largely through the efforts of people like martin luther king, the black freedom movement, vets coming home and telling the truth and the antiwar movement, those things came together. and a majority opposed the war. then the question was how do we stop it if it won't stop? and this was a crisis for democracy and a crisis for the antiwar movement. in my own family one of my brothers went to canada, deserted the army. and i think he's a war hero for doing that. one of my brothers went to the communes. one joined the democratic party, tried to build a peace wing and i did what i did. >> you think bowe bergdahl is a hero too. >> if he deserted, i think that was heroic. nobody knows if he did or didn't. i think throughout history we should build monuments to the unknown deserters, the people who look at the craziness they're asked to participate in and say i'm not part of this. >> okay. so i hear you explaining those sound bites we heard from bernadine dohrn, your now wife, she wasn't then, but she is now.
as you and your group are calling for more violence, what we saw in february 1970 was san francisco police officer brian mcdonald, a 44-year-old father of two and husband was killed when a bomb went off in his police station and eight other police officers were injured in that blast. now, your wife, bernadine dohrn has been accused of that crime. do you deny it? >> absolutely deny it. absolutely nothing to do with it. so this is one of the things that keeps recycling. >> let me just tell them how it does and i'll give you the floor. larry gratwald, he claimed you visited him in buffalo in 1970 and claimed bernadine dohrn had to do it herself, that bombing, because others "weren't active enough in committing violence." and the san francisco police union recently accused the weather underground of this murder. >> complete lies. and larry was in sds, but he was never in the weather underground. >> sds was the precursor. >> yeah. the student movement. exactly. no, larry was lying.
and the police union doesn't know what they're talking about. >> bernadine dohrn was not a fan of the police. and referred to them typically as pigs. >> well, that was again, the inflated rhetoric at the time. yes, the black panthers did that, we did that, yes. >> i mean, that sort of rhetoric is what sort of catches people's attention when she's calling them pigs and celebrating bad things happening to the police at the same time one gets murdered and you allegedly went and told larry she -- >> never happened. but look, it's true that the rhetoric was inflated. it's also true you take a situation like chicago today, the police are a violent, out of control enterprise in chicago today. the shooting of unarmed people, again and again. the stopping of people on the street, the endless arrests. >> do you refer to them as pigs today? >> no, i don't. >> does bernadine? >> no, not really. we hang out at the coffee shop and talk to them. but when you disagree -- when we look at the chicago police
department that's been involved in torture which has freed people off death row in the last five years because of a systematic, you know, practice of torture and forced confessions and so on. and these police officers are -- every one of them isn't guilty, but every one of them is part of the conspiracy of silence, absolutely. >> five days after that san francisco bombing that took the life of officer brian mcdonald, the weather underground bombed john murtagh's home. >> that's also not true. >> it's not true? >> no, it's not true. >> judge murtagh was a trial judge in new york state hearing a case involving the panther 21. and your group objected to the way he was handling that case. and you came out -- >> we supported the panther 21, there's no question. >> that's right. and his home got fire bombed in the middle of the night. in your book with bernadine you quote the weather underground communique. you say as follows, and i'm quoting now, two weeks before the townhouse explosion -- which is a different bomb -- four
members of this group had fire bombed judge murtagh's house in new york as an action of support for panther 21. within that group however the feeling developed that because this action had not done anything to hurt the pigs materially it wasn't very important. >> i didn't write that. >> it's in your book. >> which book? >> your book with bernadine on the board right there. it's from one of your communiques. >> it's not my communique. >> it's your wife. >> no, i think it was -- >> no, it's your wife. and not only that a former weather ground -- >> weather underground. >> weather underground, kathi wilkinson, further offered her own version of what happened and while she was in it the weather underground perpetrated that crime. she wasn't telling the truth either? >> i don't think so. >> john murtagh also believes you committed that crime. when i was hosting an afternoon show he came on and said the following.
i want to give you a chance to respond. >> your 9-year-old little boy asleep in your bed and what happens? >> actually, early in the morning on washington's birthday four bombs went off. two in the front of the house. there were two in the front that went off, there were bombs they had placed under the gas tank of our car in the back of the house. the first two went off. the notion that bill ayers and the weather underground were about property damage, to make it sound like they were egging cars on halloween night is absurd. as far as i'm concerned kathy, bill ayers and bernadine dohrn have blood dripping from their hands. >> not true. it was always property damage in our activities. always. and so it's just not true. >> do you deny that terry robins was responsible for that bombing? >> i have no idea if he was. i don't think he was. he's gone so we don't know -- >> he's one of the guys that blew himself up. >> that's exactly right. one of the things i think is interesting of these activities 40 years ago. i don't think it's bad to stir
through them and try to understand them. >> you've written about them extensively. >> absolutely. i don't think there's anything wrong with that. but i think it would be fair and balanced to also look at the violence that was -- was and is going on perpetrated by the govement, by the official agencies and organs of the government. >> let me tell you what i hear when i hear that. i hear you saying you sound like with respect, osama bin laden. >> what? >> i know you deny it, but there's evidence -- >> i deny it. >> there's evidence. >> but when john murtagh says for example there's blood on your hands, what blood is he talking about? >> he's talking about the san francisco police officer. he's talking about the weather underground individuals who were killed. >> right. but we had nothing to do with the san francisco -- >> that's what you claim. but there of course is evidence to the contrary. >> if there's evidence to the contrary why isn't somebody in trial? we were already aboveground -- >> we'll get to that in a
minute. there is evidence of it. and there was a former member of the weather underground who came out and said this is murder. what you guys got to the point where you considered murder. and you acknowledge that yourself. it got to the point where this property damage wasn't good enough for you. >> still ahead, ayers reacts to evidence that the weather underground went way beyond vandalism including accusations from former members of his own group. watch how that goes next. i am so nervous right now, it's not even funny. oh my gosh... driver 1 you ready? yeah! go! [sfx] roaring altima engine woah! ahhhha! we told people they were riding nissan's most advanced altima race car. we lied... about the race car part. altima, with 270 horsepower and active understeer control.
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back now to my exclusive interview with bill ayers, the man behind one of the most violent radical groups of the 1970s. and his reaction to the evidence that despite his claims his group went way beyond vandalism. you guys got to the point where you considered murder. and you acknowledge that yourself. it got to the point where this property damage wasn't good enough for you. and you decided a mass murder planning to bomb a military dance. >> terry had decided that it had to go further. and thank goodness it didn't. which i also said at the same moment. >> you understand, professor,
that what began for your group as outrage over mass killings then turned into a plan to kill hundreds of americans. did you not see the moral high ground? >> oh, absolutely. but that was true for a few people. and it's one of the things we split on. so i write about it extensively in "fugitive days." you should read it. it's an extensive explanation. >> as i hear you sitting you don't sound remorseful. >> you want me to be remorseful for something i didn't do rather than for the things i did do. >> this is your group, professor ayers. >> no. that's not true. >> it is true. this is the weather underground that was going to bomb military outlets. >> we criticized it then and now. and we said it's wrong. it was wrong. it is wrong. >> professor, the only reason it didn't happen is because the bomb blew up on those who were making it. and while -- and when it blew up your girlfriend diana was killed. >> that's right. >> you later describe her death as valiant. >> i later described an
imaginary -- nobody knows what happened. but what i imagined in "fugitive days" is her trying to stop that horrendous event from taking place. so that's how i describe it. i don't say she was valiant. i don't say that. >> you describe her death as valiant. >> no, i talk about her trying to stop what would have been a horrendous -- >> that's your imagination. how do you know she was against that bomb? >> i don't know. i don't know. >> she was in the townhouse -- >> that's exactly right. no one knows. you don't know, john murtagh doesn't know. but the idea that this somehow is the moral equivalent of 6,000 people a week being killed, strikes me as nuts. we were destroying property and in the course of the discussion some people thought we should go much further. >> but your critics say when you make that argument you sound like adolf hitler. >> you want to talk about who's in that grand tradition of destroying thousands of millions of people? it's the american war in vietnam, where john mccain was in fact dropping bombs from the air on civilians. and he did it consistently. >> and when the weather underground went into a townhouse and put together a
bomb with nails in it -- >> terrible thing. >> and allegedly -- i mean, allegedly killed a police officer. >> no. >> and bombed the home of john murtagh. >> we didn't kill a police officer. >> a federal judge with a 9-year-old boy in his bed. >> we did not kill the police officer. >> you deny it, but there's ed to the contrary. doesn't mean they can prove it without a doubt. the san francisco police union believes you did it. >> that's not true. and john murtagh is also not true. but he has his opinion. but nobody was hurt or killed. the townhouse, as i said, was a terrible, terrible deviation -- >> on a communique that was issued by the weather understood ground claims credit for the murtagh home bombing. >> meanwhile 6,000 people a week -- >> you made that point. you made that point. that's going to the ends justify the means. >> is that not the slippery slope -- >> back to the ends justify the means. let me get back to this -- >> absolutely not. unless you say the united states is saying the ends justify the means, which they often do say.
>> you got to the point where your group had to go underground. >> we decided to go underground. we didn't have to. >> while underground you stole, you lied, you hid, right? any disagreement? you stole. >> onwards, yes. >> you did. you wrote about it in your book. >> we stole ids. >> you stole purses, you stole wallets. >> well, yeah. >> stole money. >> some. >> you ripped off dead babies' identities. >> right. >> and yet the violence continued. just because you went underground doesn't mean the violence stopped. >> what violence? >> well, june 9, 1970, you bomb the new york city police headquarters. >> again, you're creating dpsh. >> let me just list it. march 1, 1971 you bomb the u.s. capital, may 19, 1972 you bomb the pentagon, january 29, 1975 you bomb the state department. that's what i mean by violence. >> yeah, that's actually destruction of property. so you can call it violence. but to equate it to the murder of human beings is nonsense. >> you realize people could have been hurt. you admitted that at the beginning of the interview.
>> i said people could have been hurt and thank god they weren't. we made every attempt not to and they weren't. >> do you appreciate the recklessness of that? who are you to potentially endanger the lives of those individuals who may be in or around this building. >> i don't say it wasn't reckless and i don't say it wasn't illegal. >> it's not about legality. it's so much bigger than that, professor ayers. you could have murdered somebody with those bombs. >> and we but actually the people who were conducting the war in vietnam did actually murder people. >> so the answer is to then make yourself a murderer as well? >> wait, do the ends of the fight against communism justify those means? >> you're answering a question with a question. >> i am. >> why don't you account for your own -- >> i will. and you account for your reporting. >> this is all from your book, sir. >> yeah, i know. but you talk about lies. nothing's more clear than the systematic lying of the american government to get us into war after war after war. >> you keep dodging. you keep dodging. >> i'm not dodging. i'm pointing to the real criminal. >> and not taking accountability. >> no. i've said again and again and i've said it in print, what i'm
responsible for, what i'm not responsible for. but it's hard to get me to admit that i'm responsible for something i didn't do. >> well, you did these bombings. the weather underground -- you admitted the weather underground did 20 bombings. that's your group. >> and i would not apologize for destroying property in defense of stopping 6,000 people -- >> and crosses over to somebody being injured you deny it. >> no, i think that would have been a real problem. >> next. what happens when ayers and his wife, bernadine dohrn, resurface. plus, their plan to defeat the american empire. dohrn resurfaced? plus, their plan to defeat the american empire. everybody's excited about the back to school savings at staples. from the customers, to the staples associates. with guaranteed low prices on mechanical pencils. you'll flip out! now go tell your friends. staples, make more happen for less.
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live from america's news headquarters, i'm kelly wright. britain's tough new antiterrorism laws proposed by prime minister david cameron allowing passports to be seized from citizens from traveling to fight alongside terror groups. from re-entering the uk and stronger powers for the government to monitor suspects already in the country. it's estimated 500 britains have gone to fight in syria and iraq. meantime, president obama telling a pro-union crowd in
milwaukee this labor day that america deserves a raise, adding he will push congress the same way he quoted his wife by not taking no for an answer. the president warning it will be difficult to pass a minimum wage bill, but republicans gain control of congress in november. i'm kelly wright. we'll take you back now to a "the kelly file" special. you are watching fox news. welcome back to our "the kelly file" special. bill ayers, the founder of the radical weather underground, admits that his group bombed 20 targets including the pentagon, u.s. capital and state department. all he says to protest the vietnam war and other left wing causes of the '70s. afraid to face the consequences of their actions, ayers and dohrn went underground in 1970 and didn't resurface for ten years. in 1980 you and bernadine dohrn resurfaced. when she turned herself in bernadine dohrn promised to spend her energy working to
defeat the american empire. you say you resolved by that point not to hurt anybody, but your comrades did not apparently get the let's be more peaceful memo. i say this because kathi will k wilkerson, she wrote aft fact, and i quote, the process by which weather leaders change from the language of glorifying violence in january 1970 to moderation was invisible to almost all weather members, certainly the assumption of most was a plan to build a clandestine fighting force was full steam ahead. if ayers says things were different in the west, most participants did not know this. what did you do to communicate to the people in your group no more violence? >> i don't agree with kathi. so i don't know what to say about it. i mean, we were a loose organization. we were not a disciplined organization. but we changed dramatically in 1970. there's no question. you can read the communique and understand. >> i read the communique, which said you bombed the murtagh
house. >> well, there are many communiques. including after the townhouse explaining the change of direction -- >> not the townhouse. it said you bombed the murtaghs, which now you're denying on this set. do you take responsibility for riling people up with your incendiary rhetoric and then setting them upon the american public with a commitment to violence? >> no, no, no, no. we did not set ourselves upon the american public. where did we set ourselves upon the american public? >> you were calling for more violence. you were rallying your own people up. kathi talking about if there was some decision to get more peaceful, it was not communicated to the troops. you were the leadership. >> riling up -- the people who riled up the response that they got over the five years in the early 9 1970s was the government itself. riling us up to -- >> it wasn't bill ayers? >> no. i absolutely thought we should do more. we should be more effective. >> and that meant more violence? >> it didn't always mean more
violence. >> but it did sometimes. >> no, you're using violence in a conflated way. >> you want these 20-year-olds to understand your nuance principles of -- i meant militancy, i didn't mean -- i want to bomb property, but i don't want to kill people. and i can trust all these people to follow my edicts. >> throughout the left at that time, the catholic left, the barigans, people were destroying property again and again and again. >> once again you blame somebody else. >> we should have -- >> i'm talking about you. when bad people do bad things, we hold them accountable. >> i'm saying we should have done more to stop that genocidal war. and that included destroying more property. absolutely. >> so your argument in response to my question is about what you did to tamp down the violence is we should have done more to amp it up. >> we should have done more to just stop the war. and that means being more effective on every level including destroying more draft boards, destroying more draft files, hammering out nuclear warheads, we did all of that.
>> i feel the audience now has a feeling for where you were at this point in your mind. >> right. >> but this is when you've resurfaced from being underground. and within a year of that, october 20th, 1981, was a triple homicide. david gilbert of the weather understood ground, kathi bodine, weather underground, and judy clark partner with the black liberation army. they kill two cops along with a security guard. you were very close with bill gert and bodine. >> still am. >> i know it. ka think bodine learned that some of her very criminal tactics while she was with the weather underground. she was in the townhouse that exploded when that bomb went off, wasn't she? >> that's fru. >> you adopted her child because she and her husband were going to jail. >> that's right. >> she got out after 20 years because she pleaded guilty. there's no question she did it. >> she pled guilty. absolutely. and she paid her, you know, she paid the price for that. and it was a terrible, dreadful, miscalibrated horrible action.
and they paid the price. >> so you don't see her as valiant? >> i don't think what they did is valiant. she's a wonderful person, but no. >> you don't think that had anything to do with what they learned or heard while in the weather underground? >> absolutely not. it was a different time and a different moment. >> you had nothing to do with. >> absolutely not. but we did have to do with adopting their son and raising him to the wonderful person he is today. that was part of what we did, yeah. >> and your wife, bernadine dohrn, was asked to cooperate in that investigation. >> that's right. >> she refused. >> absolutely. >> she spent seven months in jail because she refused to help the police in an investigation. >> she refused to speak to a grand jury. >> why would she do that? >> takes you behind closed doors without the benefit of a lawyer and asks you to speak to -- >> what does she have to hide? >> well, wait. if they pulled you in and said, megyn, we want to talk to you about a bunch of stuff, bill o'reilly mainly, you'd say no way. >> i'd say two cops are dead and
so is a security guard and i will help the government put whoever did it behind bars. >> absolutely not. >> yes, i would sir. >> no, but that's not what they said. they said we're not going to show you the evidence. we're not going to say where you're a target. we're just going to ask you a bunch of questions -- >> professor ayers, nine children lost their fathers that day. why didn't your wife help? >> i agree with you. i think it was a terrible, terrible crime. so that's not what we're disagreeing about. grand juries are a terrible overreach of the u.s. government. terrible. and they should be resisted. and everybody who thinks about it has resisted them. i mean, they were used against monica lewinsky, they were used against many, many people. >> they're part of our government. >> shouldn't be resisted. >> the question is whether your wife, bernadine dohrn, felt she did in 1970 when she seemed perfectly fine about murder. she said about the charles manson murders -- >> not true. >> a pregnant woman and six others "offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives and eating a meal in the same room, far out. the weathermen dig charles
manson." this is your sweetheart? this is your soulmate? >> this is nonsense. this is something that gets recirculated -- >> you deny she said that? >> absolutely. what she said is american culture is so obsessed with the craziness -- >> that's not how the "new york times" reported it. the "new york times" reported it just like i said it. do they lie too? >> the "new york times"? they lie daily. are you kidding? >> they lied, the communiques lied, a long list of people who have told terrible lies about the weather underground. >> i am completely candid about the weather underground. you can read it in any of my books. you don't certainly believe that the "new york times" gets things right every time. >> even kathi will kerson admitted bernadine dohrn made this speech art charles manson and how much the weather underground dig him. >> that's not true. what she said was here we are in a genocidal war. here we are murdering black panthers. and what is the news media focused on? this crazy guy who, you know, stuck a fork in somebody and she
was mocking it. and it was recorded as if she were supporting him. she doesn't support it. but it doesn't matter. if there's an endless echo chamber that you help perpetuate then -- >> is it true that the weather underground had a serious discussion before it went underground about whether she should kill all white babies. as a university of arizona professor claims. here he is. >> i remember going to the last aboveground weather -- it was the weathermen or the weather underground, the last aboveground convention. and sitting in a room and the question that was debated was was it or was it not the duty of every good revolutionary to kill all newborn white babies. >> because they would ultimately join the revolution. >> it's absolutely nuts. there's no truth to it. and so it's hard to kind of have a conversation with you when --
>> i'm just asking. >> no truth to it. >> okay. when you became a parent, did it soften you at all to the reality of what you had done? potentially endangering other people's parents and children? >> it was the best thing happening to me becoming a parent. did it soften me, i don't know what that means. but, you know, it's the best thing i've ever done is to raise three remarkable young men. so the big question still, how close was ayers to barack obama? have they spoken since mr. obama became president and bill ayers was in the headlines? and would bill ayers bomb america today? that's next. i was just looking at your credit report site. do you guys have identity theft protection? [ male voice ] i'm sorry, did you say identity distribution? no. protection. identity theft protection. you have selected identity distribution. your identity will now be shared with everyone. thank you. no, no, no -- [ click, dial tone ] [ female announcer ] not all credit report sites are equal. [ male voice ] we're good in here, howie.
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interview. ultimately you wound up in chicago. you got a job teaching with the university of illinois. do you see any irony in accepting a government paycheck and winding up -- >> what's the irony? >> a life opposing the government regime, wanting to throw down the government as you put it. >> well, look. we all live in the actual world. so even the things we're critical of, this is the world we live in. should i not make a living? i'm asking you, seriously? >> no, it's fine. your wife got a job miraculously teaching a job -- >> very successfully. >> they must be offering classes in what you can learn from your future clients. but are you surprised that you got those job offers you and she? given your history? she was on the fbi's ten most wanted list. >> i know. so was angela davis. you know, a lot of great people have been on that list. but angela davis is also a professor. the thing is i got my doctorate when i was 43 years old. i interviewed at several
universities. the best offer i got was university of illinois, i took it. we moved to chicago, we had three kids. she started a center for children and families and eventually northwestern law school wanted to be a part of that. >> ka think bodine ended up there as well. many members of weather understood ground ended up in academia. president obama, how much ideology do the two of you share? >> zero. >> good friends, not good friends? >> i knew him as well as 10,000 other people. >> did he ever contact you when you became the story in his presidential race? >> absolutely not. and i did not contact him. although i wish i were because i have a lot of advice for him. >> you want him to go further to the left? >> oh, i want him to stop droning people. i want him to stop -- i want him to close guantanamo. i want him to, you know, universal health care. don't you think we deserve universal health care? seriously. >> you say in your book you can't quite imagine putting a bomb in a building today, but
you can't imagine entirely dismissing that possibility either. what would it take to make you bomb this country again? >> well, you know, you're taking that sentence in a funny way. but what i'm saying is it seemed so long ago. what i'm saying in that passage is it seemed so long ago and so far away like another world. on the other hand as violent and nuts as we can be as a country, i can't completely say no and i would never ever rise up in opposition in a very militant and serious way. i can't say i wopt. i doubt it. i'm 70 years old. it's unlikely. but i think that i wanted to say there exactly what -- said on tape. i'm not committed to nonviolence as ideology. and frankly neither are you because we live in the most violent society around. and we commit war crimes day in and day out. and often as a matter of policy. and yet that seems perfectly fine with you. >> bill ayers, thank you for being here. >> thank you, megyn. up next, the final part of
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we met we met bill ayers when he agreed to join fill kmaker right here on our set for a special about desuza's new film. that may have been the most interesting part of our exchange as it turns out. here is part of their debate. why do you think so few liberals say they're proud to be an american? >> i have no idea. >> are you? >> i'm no liberal, if that's what you mean. i'm not proud to be an american and i don't buy the american exceptionalism at all. the reason i'm not proud to be an american is because of the damage we do around the world is so serious and so ongoing. so if you look anywhere in the world, look all through latin america, ordinary people on the street admire cuba for one reason. they stood up to america. they stood up to, you know, imperial advances. >> we stood up to people too. germany. >> i understand. and that was also us at our best. >> so why do you go right to the
bad? why don't you think about the good? >> i do often think about the good. i wouldn't call myself an american exceptionalist and i would challenge that in anybody because i'm a human being. i believe we should be struggling with the question what does it mean to be human in the 21st century. what is it that's required of us? we are all human. we're 5% -- america's 5% of the world's population. we should be part -- we should think of ourselves as a people among people. not as an exceptional people. because as soon as you start saying american exceptionalism, then you say actions that are done by us versus other people are different depending on who does them. >> this is not an unusual attitude -- >> exceptionalism doesn't mean a different moral standard applies. by and large foreigners coming to america going all the way back to tokeville, i've grown up in a different culture, i know america is exceptional because i see things in america that you wouldn't see anywhere else in the world. right now if you took the power the america has, soul super power, and you gave it to russia
or china, they would use it far more expansively, more brutally and more to gain themselves. america is benign in the way it exercises its power. the american idea of wealth creation is being embraced in india, in china, all over the world. it's lifting hundreds of millions of people out of poverty. so ironically this american formula that we are moving away from at home under obama is being enthusiastically embraced all around the world. >> we're benign in iraq, for example. you say we use our power benevolently, in iraq, for example. or afghanistan. >> okay. >> those are benign -- >> we went into afghanistan because the taliban supplied monkey bars to the guys from 9/11 who attacked us directly. >> why didn't we go and get the guys who attacked us directly? >> because the moment -- >> which is incidentally the entire history of the last 60 years of american foreign policy is we go in under the guise of being beneficent and benign and
go in under the lies of one president after another. and then we get booted out. what do we do? we blame the brown guy. so it's al maliki. and i hope maliki's read his history of vietnam -- >> do you think we're blaming al maliki for the mess in iraq because he's brown? is that what you think? >> i think we always blame our clients. that's what i'm saying. >> that's a generalization. do you think we're blaming al maliki for the mess in iraq because he's brown? >> i think we blame our clients. our clients happen to be brown. so i hope al maliki's read about vietnam. diem got a bullet in the head from kennedy because he had failed in vietnam. we hadn't failed. we were perfect. and the same is true in -- >> america has made mistakes. have made mistakes in vietnam, i think the iraq war in retrospect -- hold on a moment. in retrospect the iraq war was a mistake. but there's a difference between making a mistake and doing something inherently wicked. let me tell you by what i mean. anyone else who went into iraq and did this would have reimbursed themselves by taking
the iraqi oil. instead we've spent all this money in iraq and turn the keys over to the oil fields. it's your oil, use it, sell it, burn it. iraq ends up costing us money. imperialists go abroad to make money. >> you're saying the oil is just there and iraq is using it the way it sees fit and shell and mobil has nothing to do it. >> unbalanced made money or -- >> unbalanced. halliburton made gazillions of money. america on balance lost. >> okay. let me ask you this. at the end of the cold war all of eastern europe is free, russia now no longer has a communist government. are all those countries better off or worse off because we won the cold war? >> i don't think we won the cold war. i think you're dreaming about that. i think that -- >> is it a good thing? >> well, i think the end of authoritarian government is always is good thing. but i also think this notion that somehow we go out in our
beneficence, spend a trillion dollars a year on military budgets, have 150 military bases circling the globe. those are not for beneficent purposes. >> for the rest of that debate go to facebook.com/thekellyfile. like the page, leave a comment to tell us what you think. we will be right back. you, my friend are a master of diversification. who would have thought three cheese lasagna would go with chocolate cake and ceviche? the same guy who thought that small caps and bond funds would go with a merging markets. it's a masterpiece. thanks. clearly you are type e. you made it phil. welcome home. now what's our strategy with the fondue? diversifying your portfolio? e*trade gives you the tools and resources to get it right. are you type e*?
we'd love to know what you think of our exchange with ayers. was he just a 1970s radical trying to do good by calling attention to what many believed was a controversial war in vietnam? or does this man belong in jail? and what about his wife, bernadine dohrn? does she have blood on her hands? and what is she doing at northwestern law school? go to facebook.com/thekellyfile. follow me on twitter. let me know what you think.
i'm megyn kelly and this is "the kelly file" special on weather underground co-founder bill ayers. live from america's news headquarters i'm kelly wright. britain takes aim at home grown terrorism. speaking to parliament tonight prime minister david cameron proposed new laws, they include giving police the power to seize passports from britains suspected of having traveled abroad to fight alongside terror groups. even britain's islamic clerics are ordering would-be jihadists not to take up arms in a plan to discourage extremism. >> that has included stopping the organizations that promote extremism, banning hate creatures and ensuring every part of government from schools and universities to prisons are all focused on beating the scourge of extremism.